The problem with this illustration is that the boys know they are drowning, and are "spiritually alive". The Bible teaches that we have all gone astray and are enemies of God (Rom 8:8-11). In Rom 1:23-25 God gives humanity over to a debased mind, and furthermore in Rom 3:10-20 Paul quotes the Old Testament declaring that there are none who seeks God, "no not one (10&12)". Ephesians 2:1-2 says we were "dead" in our trespasses. Not struggling to stay alive. This illustration is not Biblical.
@SLDG The illustration is quite biblical - man is indeed born separated from God, won't seek Him on his own, & can't restore the relationship even if he did. God must supply a way back thru Christ, intervene in each person's life by convicting them of sin & calling them to repentance, & those who then choose to obey & repent are given to Christ for regeneration. Lots of people don't know they're drowning - t's a work of the Spirit to convince them of their sin & need for a Savior (Jn16:8)
@metanoe01 "as for Acts 17-that's no different than 2 Peter 3:9"
Yeah, just dismiss the word of God when it DOESN'T conform to Calvinism. 2 Peter 3:9 God ONLY wants the ELECT not to prerish... And Ez.18:32, that's no different than 2 Peter 3:9 as well right? And 2 Tim.2:4, that's no different tha 2 Peter 3:9 as well right? Titus 3:4 (Gods love for MANKIND) Same as 2 Peter 3:9 right? Rev.22:17, God only wants the ELECT to COME same as 2 Peter 3:9 right?
Exactly, it never ceases to amaze me how willfuly blind people become when they ingest these false doctrines - the bible speaks of them as becoming drunk with the wine of spiritual adultery. It's like talking with an incoherent alcoholic who's lost the capacity for rational thought - Kalvin Kool-aid turns them into mindless zombies.
How did God foreknow that Adam would sin? He foreknew it because He decreed it and irresistibly brought it about in accordance with that decree. Adam could no more resist the eternal decree to rebel against God than he could create a universe.
His illustration is a prime example of unbelievers going to hell. That's what God said will happen. God does hate some people - ever read Proverbs 6:16?
As for God choosing to save some - how about Ephesians 1:3-4? Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly placed, EVEN AS HE CHOSE US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, THAT WE SHOULD BE HOLY AND BLAMELESS BEFORE HIM.
@metanoeo "how about Ephesians 1:3-4? Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly placed, HE CHOSE US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, THAT WE SHOULD BE HOLY & BLAMELESS BEFORE HIM."
You subtracted man's free will & added an element of God's force which aren't actually in the verse. Men must choose to receive God's will for themselves for it to be efficacious, salvation isn't forced upon them.
@JackMWolfe It clearly says, "He chose us." We can't choose Him unless we are chosen by Him. Our holiness and blamelessness come from Christ - 2 Cor. 5:21 "For our sake He (God) made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." Isaiah said our righteousness is as filthy rags. He chose us, He makes us righteous, He makes us holy and we do have a part - to live worthy of the calling to which we were called - Eph. 4:1, which is only possible in Christ.
@metanoeo "It clearly says, "He chose us." We can't choose Him unless we are chosen by Him"
That's right but nothing in this verse says those who God chooses MUST choose Him in return - that's a false idea Calvinism forces between the lines. Read the bible without smearing Reformed doctrines all over the pages. Wake up - salvation is a GIFT which man can choose to reject.
@JackMWolfe It's amazing how people make assumptions when they don't know a thing about what they are saying. I used to be an elder in a Wesleyan/Arminian denomination and spent the better part of my adult life there, but always felt unsettled. It was only after intense study of the Scriptures and asking for the leading of the Holy Spirit to lead me into the truth that I came to the understanding I now have of Scripture and doctrine. So you can drop your "smearing" rhetoric and move along.
@metanoeo 1st, I made no assumptions - you made it perfectly clear that you reject the true gospel found in verses such as Acts17:29-30 ie ALL men are "God's offspring" & the gospel is for "ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE". Your gospel is "Repent for Christ MIGHT have died for you" & you accuse God of creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell. 2nd, you obviously DIDN'T study the scriptures enough & it wasn't the HOLY Spirit who led you into Calvin's blasphemous heresy.
@metanoeo1 Brother, this 'I used to be a...' stuff isn't impressive. I used to be a calvinist. Guess what? I not only felt slightly unsettled, I felt physically and spiritually sick. The Holy Spirit drew me away from this loveless, methodical, mechanical theology that makes God the author of sin.
@metanoeo1 Calvinism in a nutshell: God does hate some people. Only calvinism teaches that a supposedly righteous god, who is omnipotent to boot, would create certain people for the sole purpose of hating them, and then damning them. Who needs demons with a 'god' like this?
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones Proverbs 6:16 clearly says there are people God hates. As a former elder in a Wesleyan/Arminian denomination who, praise God, was delivered from the fallacy of that doctrine, you're barking up the wrong tree thinking you're going to change my mind with you rhetoric. When you develop a real counterpoint, let's debate. Until then, I bid you goodbye.
@metanoeo1 Hey, I'm not here to change your mind. I'm just saying: this "I used to be"-rhetoric isn't impressive. Furthermore, since you claim Proverbs 6:16 indeed reads God 'hates' people, and that from the beginning of time before they were even born: what is so good about your god? Keep wallowing in your election.
@metanoeo "Proverbs 6:16 clearly says there are people God hates. As a former elder in a Wesleyan/Arminian denomination who, praise God, was delivered from the fallacy of that doctrine, you're barking up the wrong tree thinking you're going to change my mind with you rhetoric"
1st, Pr16 is a list of THINGS God hates ie sin, not people. 2nd, what "rhetoric" did you find in Acts17:29-30 to reject? ALL men are "God's offspring" & the gospel is for "ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE" You promote heresy.
@JackMWolfe You better re-read Prov 6:16 because it clearly ends with "one who stirs up dissension." It doesn't say "stirring up" but "one who" that's a person, Jack. Surely you can see that. If not, I'm done discussing with you because you can't see what's right in front of your face.
As for Acts 17 - that is no different than 2 Peter 3:9 where God desires all men to be saved. It is not his expressed will that all will be saved, but His desire as the creator of mankind. It is not decreed.
@metanoeo "You better re-read Prov 6:16 because it clearly ends with "one who stirs up dissension."
1st, it's YOU that needs to read the start of the verse - "These six THINGS the Lord hates" & stop misusing God's word to foster your blasphemous doctrines. It's a list of what the Lord hates & those who engage in them will face His judgment unless they repent. 2nd, salvation is indeed NOT decreed but it's God's desire - God offers it as a GIFT & as such, it must be accepted to be efficacious.
@JackMWolfe 1st - it's you who are misusing the word. See I can argue like an uneducated 4th grader, too. What is the last thing on that list of 7? Notice it says 6 then 7. "One who stirs up dissension" is a PERSON. A basic course in grammar will explain that fact.
As for salvation being accepted, Christ doesn't need our acceptance. There is a big word called a "dichotomy". Look that up in your dictionary then you can begin to understand the decree/desire issue more clearly.
@metanoeo "See I can argue like an uneducated 4th grader, too."
1st, that'd be an improvement, you've been like a petulant preschooler - the "things" God refers to in Pr6 are SINS that God hates. If man CHOOSES to engage in them then he makes HIMSELF an object of wrath. You subtracted the 1st part, added your false doctrines, & produced a deadly concoction of Kalvin Kool-aid. 2nd, there's no mysterious "dichotomy" about salvation & God's will - He's decreed that it's for whosoever wills.
@CBALLEN Not impressed with such fallacious "appeals to authority" especially since you routinely trash some in the list anyway. You stand rebuked by MY authority which is God's word - that's why you RUN from the verses that refute your profane garbage such as Lk7:30, Rom5:18, Rom11:32, 2Pet2:1, Ex6:6-8, Rev3:5, Acts17:29-30, Mt23:37, Jer 7:31, & the latest, Mt22:8-14 where Christ says salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people. You're a confirmed imposter, a blasphemer, & a lying apostate.
@CBALLEN LOL.1st, answering verses like Lk7:30 which says the Pharisess "rejected God's will for themselves" by chanting Calvinist doctrines trying to make it vanish ie "God's will can never be thwarted" DOES NOT qualify as answering it - what it DOES qualify as is WITCHCRAFT! 2nd Ps139:4 only affirms that God knows the heart &"out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (Lk6:45)"- which has NOTHING to with the decisions man makes in his own heart, it doesn't support Calvinism.
@JackMWolfe How do you get that I run from those verses when I already answered them?You're the one who never answers questions,none of you open theists do.BTW,is Satan a lion on God;s leash?Doesn't ps.139 tells us that God knows all the words we'll say before we even know?Can you answer those?
3rd, regarding your inane question "Is Satan on a leash?" - I told you before that since you're the one following him, you should simply look up at his neck & see. 4th, you've avoided answering all the verses I listed & many more - sometimes for weeks, sometimes not at all, & even when you do only by mantras composed of your brain-dead theology. Your latest SILENCE is about Christ's words in Mt22:8-14 that salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people - either submit to His word or renounce HIm!
@JackMWolfe You are just rattling off flawed opinions,fools always do things like that,and you're no exception,but the rule.Anyone who believe God to be ignorant of anything,is certainly putting himself on a pedestal where he doesn't belong,humble yourself and be still,then maybe you could hear the real God.
@JackMWolfe It's still hilarious to see you arguing on a video for a man who believes that you and all your followers are HERETICS, HE DOESN'T EVEN SAY THAT ABOUT REFORMERS.LOL
@CBALLEN All your evasive gibberish, personal attacks, & every other diversion you tried can't hide the fact that for over 2 weeks now, just as you've done with MANY other verses that directly refute your profane doctrines, you've ignored & evaded what Christ said in Mt22:8-14 - that salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people - NOT forced on some & denied to others as you falsely claimed. The fact is you renounce Christ & reject His word - you're a liar, an apostate, a false prophet & a coward.
@CBALLEN Those I really feel sorry for are your poor kids - have you told them yet that you worship a God who commands people to do things they can't do & then punishes them for not obeying? Try explaining it by giving one of them a gift & nothing to the other - if they're confused tell them you're showing love because they're both just worthless brats who don't deserve anything, & if they still don't understand Calvinism - take them for ice cream & throw one of them out of the car on the way.
@CBALLEN What do your kids think about you running from the challenge to simply stand before God & invoke His judgment between the true believer & the imposter according to Heb10:30? “The Lord will judge & determine & solve &settle the cause & the cases of His people” Do they already know you’re a gutless coward or will they have to find out at the Final Judgment just before you’re cast into the Lake of Fire? Exactly how do you keep from getting sick to your stomach when looking in a mirror?
@JackMWolfe My kids believed in the One true God before I did.What are you going to do when your kids find out that you taught them about the wrong God?
@CBALLEN AGAIN: for weeks, just as you've done in the past with other verses that directly refute your profane doctrines, you've evaded what Christ said in Mt22:8-14 - that salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people - NOT forced on some & denied to others as you falsely claimed. You therefore renounce Christ by rejecting His word - you're a liar, an apostate, a false prophet AND a coward - not willing to step forward according to Heb10:30 & invoke God to judge the true believer & the imposter.
@JackMWolfe Salvation is from God,by God and for God.Invitations mean,many are called,but few are chosen by God according to the counsel of His will and not by the will or choice of man. GOD will certainly judge who He saved,He doesn't play games.
@CBALLEN Salvation is indeed of God & many invitations are sent out but declined while others like you try to enter the wedding with filthy garments instead of what GOD supplies - & they'll be REJECTED for the insult. He definitely doesn't play games with those who reject His word & blaspheme the Holy Spirit - you're ALREADY eternally condemned. Stand forth with your demonic doctrines & the counterfeit dirtbag you promote & be judged according to Heb10:30 - let all imposters be destroyed NOW!
@CBALLEN It's both you idiot. Even though they might choose HIM, they STILL must meet the conditions or will be excluded from the kingdom as per the parable of the Talents, the 5 rejected bridesmaids, the man who came without the wedding garment, or those like YOU who embrace the doctrines of demons & defile themselves permanently by blaspheming the Spirit, Your stupidity has all been answered repeatedly - go stick your filthy snout in a bucket of Reformed swill until you drown in it you coward
If my son was playing in the street and wanted to continue playing in the street and there was a car coming and I dragged him out of the street against his will, it would not be "rape", it would be love.
If my son was playing in the street and wanted to continue playing in the street and there was a car coming, it would not be "rape" for me to drag him out of the street against his will, it would be love.
@Jared104 "If my son was playing in the street & there was a car coming, it would not be "rape" for me to drag him out of the street against his will, it would be love."
The point the video makes is if several of your children were about to be killed why would you only rescue one & leave the others to die, as Calvinism accuses God of doing? The truth is that God calls them ALL to turn from sin, desiring that NONE of them perish - but He doesn't force salvation on anyone nor does He deny it.
@Judgement220 "You can't repent unless God GRANTS YOU to REPENT."
Esau had a Callous Heart and "found No chance for repentance" Heb.12:17
You will not be GRANTED repentance if you will not willfully desire to obey God
"Repentance is a gift to undeserving sinners granted by a merciful, kind God. This does not deny human decision in repentance but rather points to the fact that even our repentance is rooted in God’ and the opportunities granted by God." A.W. Tozer
@apollos6640 You said: "Esau had a Callous Heart and "found No chance for repentance" Heb.12:17 You will not be GRANTED repentance if you will not willfully desire to obey God"
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." 1 Cor 2:14
Men are God haters, How can man "willfully desire to obey God" when they Hate God? Doesn't God have to change that man First?
@Judgement220 "we also know that God has a track record of making an example of the unrighteous perishing to make his power known to all people." Yes, but God would rather that the wicked turn & live. Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of ANYONE who dies," declares the Lord God. "Therefore, repent and live." Christ warns those in Sardis TO REPENT, otherwise they WILL perish because their works are incomplete. "You see that a man is JUSTIFIED by works and not by faith alone."
@apollos6640 "Yes, but God would rather that the wicked turn & live. Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of ANYONE who dies," declares the Lord God. "Therefore, repent and live."
God wants and desires All men to repent and be saved, But man is incapable of repentance unless.
"with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God MAY GRANT THEM REPENTANCE leading to the knowledge of the truth," 2 Tim 2:25
@Judgement220 "Luke 9:55-56 But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them."] And they went on to another village.
@Judgement220 "Could it be that Jesus is using the DEAD PEOPLE to demonstrate HIS GLORY to the ONES with unsoiled Garments? No one will ever know." We do know. We know they DO have the ability to Repent, whether they do or not is irrelevant, Gods Will for Glorification is unscathed. But they DO have the ability to repent, so Christ warns them because He desires that they do not perish.
@apollos6640 "But they DO have the ability to repent, so Christ warns them because He desires that they do not perish"
Again you don't know. You don't know if anyone perished ,you don't know if anyone repented. But we do know there are righteous ones and unrighteous ones in the Sardis Church; we also know that God has a track record of making an example of the unrighteous perishing to make his power known to all people.
@apollos6640 I asked you how do you know the Dead that Jesus is speaking of have the Ability to repent, You said:
"Because the Scriptures teach of being "DEAD" And then Repenting. "
Dead people cannot repent; God has to give that person the Ability to Repent FIRST.
The only way to know who has the ability to repent is if that person repents, there is no records to show which one of the Dead repented or not; therefore you cannot say they had the ability to repent.
@Judgement220 John 10:27 "My sheep HEAR My voice, and I know them, and THEY FOLLOW ME;" Jesus' Sheep HEAR Christ, & FOLLOW Christ. What does that mean to you?
Revelation 3:3 "Remember, then, what you RECEIVED & HEARD. KEEP it, and REPENT. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come AGAINST YOU" Jesus is declaring that he may or may not "come against" them CONDITIONED on their Repentance. They're DEAD, but they RECEIVED & HEARD things of God, & are now being commanded to REPENT, they DO have the ability to "Wake up" and "Repent" if not, Jesus WILL come against them. Don't be deceived by Satan
@apollos6640 You said: "They're DEAD, but they RECEIVED & HEARD things of God, & are now being commanded to REPENT, they DO have the ability to "Wake up" and "Repent" if not, Jesus WILL come against them"
How do you know they have the ability to REPENT? Could it be that Jesus is using the DEAD PEOPLE to demonstrate HIS GLORY to the ONES with unsoiled Garments? No will ever know.
Your warning is too late for him, he's been eternally lost to Calvinism. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is what lies at the end of Calvinism's dark, twisted road & once these deceived wretches step over that line they can never come back. Save your breath with this reprobate, he's gone forever - but hopefully any observers who might still think that Calvinism should be considered anything but a deadly, heretical cult will be admonished & sober up.
@JackMWolfe.. Revelation 3:2-3 ESV Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is ABOUT TO DIE, for I have not found your works COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you RECEIVED and heard. KEEP it, and REPENT. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come AGAINST YOU." Jesus is speaking to a group of people who are "ABOUT TO DIE" & be destroyed UNLESS they repent, its as obvious as the oxygen we breathe. This J220 guy is DENIAL!!
@JackMWolfe.. this is seriously disgusting, can you see his logic? Imagine Jesus saying, "He who overcomes I will not destroy him in the lake of fire" This willfully blind Calvinist would return with, "Jesus never said he destroys in the Lake of Fire!" Yes He says he wont-- but He DOES have the POWER to! Time to go.
@apollos Yes, the conversation is way beyond ludicrous & totally redundant, there's no purpose in beating such a dead horse. This is one that's determined for himself that his destiny will be the glue factory.
@Judgement220... "Christ says nothing about erasing names from the book of life... Why are you lying about the Bible?" Revelation 3:5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not ERASE his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Why are YOU lying about what Christ said? Christ has the authority to ERASE names from the Book of Life and says that if you do overcome, your name will NOT be erased. Stop lying.
@apollos6640 you said: "Christ has the authority to ERASE names from the Book of Life and says that if you do overcome, your name will NOT be erased. Stop lying."
You are lying because Rev 3:5 IS ONLY REFERRING TO THE ONES WHO ARE WORTHY,
You are the one who has issues interpreting this verse because Jesus DID NOT SAY HE ERASES NAMES.
Jesus in Rev 3:5 says "I will never erase their names from the Book of Life" Jesus NEVER SAYS he erases names.
@apollos This blasphemous liar isn't worth the time - some people have made a permanent decision not only to close their ears to the truth but to oppose it by every wicked means possible. Time to shake the dust off against this willfully blind reprobate....
@Judgement220... JackMWolfe recited Rev.3:5, then you tell him he's wrong by reciting v3. Do you realize Christ is not yet finished with the topic/conversation at v3 and does indeed continue on and finish at v5? Have you purposely misquoted him to come off 'rebuking' him when in fact you have not?
@apollos "JackMWolfe recited Rev.3:5, then you tell him he's wrong by reciting v3."
In most conversations this would be considered a misunderstanding but I've referred to Rev3:5 numerous times & NEVER to verse 3 - so it's an obvious underhanded ploy to evade the fact that his blasphemous doctrines have been refuted. Calvinism is based entirely on deception & so its adherents become well practiced liars - true sons of Satan who will join all other liars in the Lake of Fire (Rev21:8).
@apollos6640 "Do you realize Christ is not yet finished with the topic/conversation at v3 and does indeed continue on and finish at v5"
The problem is that in Verse 4, it starts with a CONJUNCTION in the greek word "alla" which means "BUT, YET, EXCEPT" Which represents a break in thought, from the Verse 3.
JackMWolfe forget to consider that Jesus switched focus from the wicked ones to the righteous ones in Verse 4 so Verse 5 has nothing to do with the wicked that had to repent in verse 3.
@Judgement220 "The Lord Gave me salvation because I earned it by obeying Him. It is I, who decides when and if I'm saved. It is I who can overrule God on what he wants for me, It Is I who decides my destiny,because God has to depend on my choice to be saved or not." God is Love & He offers Salvation to ALL who obey Him, Luke 17:10 "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’" and I do.
@apollos6640 Im not Mark Driscoll. "Even if I'm Faithless" is very misleading, it makes it sound that you can be faithless while in Grace. God makes you from Faithful when you are Faithless. God makes you alive when you're dead.
@Judgement220 "The bottom line is that James mentioned that Abraham was credited Righteousness (SALVATION) WHEN he believed in Gen 15:6, So clearly James is referring to the Faith of Abraham that was Justified and Perfected in Gen 22 when Abraham offered his son. There is no other way explain it because of James mentioning of Gen 15:6." I agree... he was "credited righteousness" & his "Faith was Completed by his works", there could've been a point where he could've FAILED much like Saul.
"The Lord Gave me salvation because I earned it by obeying Him. It is I, who decides when and if I'm saved. It is I who can overrule God on what he wants for me, It Is I who decides my destiny,because God has to depend on my choice to be saved or not. Eventhough I sin, my next work covers up my previous sins.."
@Judgement220 James 2:21-22 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works WHEN he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that FAITH was active along with his WORKS, and FAITH was COMPLETED by his WORKS". It couldn't be made any clearer, "Faith was COMPLETED by His WORKS", this is an Active Faith which brings forth JUSTIFICATION, not a DEAD faith that says, "God CHOSE me for Salvation BEFORE having done anything either good or bad, even if I'm Faithless He's PREDESTINED me for Glory!"
@apollos6640 you said: "not a DEAD faith that says, "God CHOSE me for Salvation BEFORE having done anything either good or bad, even if I'm Faithless He's PREDESTINED me for Glory!""
Let me correct you:
"God chose me for salvation before having done anything good or bad, at his appointed time during my life he had mercy on me and made me alive to be Faithful to him by HIS GRACE, I will NEVER Fall away from Him because it is His Spirit that guides me"
@Judgement220 Justified = Salvation--It makes PERFECT sence, Abraham believed God, where's the proof that He believed God? Abraham delivered up Isaac as a sacrificial offering-- James is declaring there better be "Works" active with your FAITH, otherwise you have a DEAD FAITH. Declaring to "Believe" in insufficient for Justification w/out works, or an Active Faith.
"Since we have been JUSTIFIED by Faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
@apollos6640 You said: "Justified = Salvation--It makes PERFECT sence, Abraham believed God, where's the proof that He believed God?"
The bottom line is that James mentioned that Abraham was credited Righteousness(SALVATION) WHEN he believed in Gen 15:6, So clearly James is referring to the Faith of Abraham that was Justified and Perfected in Gen 22 when Abraham offered his son. There is no other way explain it because of James mentioning of Gen 15:6.
@apollos6640 You said: "He wasn't JUSTIFIED until AFTER he displayed his Faith BY his works."
According to James 2:14-26, the subject is Faith, he was Justified for having Faith WHEN he offered Isaac IN James 2:23, Abraham was Justified with GOD when he Believed. Justified DOES NOT mean salvation because James said so in Verse 23 by quoting Gen 15:6, otherwise it would not make any sense.
@Judgement220, "the subjext is about faith not about Salvation", says you, not the Scriptures. It says Abraham was JUSTIFIED by "Works & NOT by Faith alone." Now you're claiming "Justified" has nothing to do with "Salvation"?
@apollos6640 You said: "Now you're claiming "Justified" has nothing to do with "Salvation"?"
The context of James 2:14-26 warrants it, because the prior verses was referring to Faith, not salvation. Therefore Abraham was Justified for having Faith, because James mentioned that he was Justified by God when he Believed in verse 23. It simply would not make sense if "Jusitifed" means "Salvation" because of verse 23.
@Judgement220 ... James 2:20-24. John 15:2, 6 "Every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit... If anyone does not ABIDE IN ME he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned." It is your responsibility to ABIDE IN CHRIST, otherwise you WILL be cut-off. Salvation is NOT a Free Ride, "why call me LORD, LORD and NOT DO AS I SAY?" Do as he says.
@Judgement220 "Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"--and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."
@apollos6640 You must be a CoC. Let me break it to you. The subject of James 2:14-26 is about Faith not Salvation. Abraham was CHOSEN By God BEFORE HIS WORKS. Why did God gave the promise to Abraham without Abraham doing anything in Gen 12?
@judgement220 ...you as either that Christian who was FOUND IN CHRIST, by expressing your faith WITH works, or that wannabe who considers Salvation as a FREE RIDE, whom Jesus will answer, "I NEVER knew you, depart from me you worker of iniquity."
@apollos6640 You said: "Christian who was FOUND IN CHRIST, by expressing your faith WITH works, or that wannabe who considers Salvation as a FREE RIDE,"--Human wisdom
"But if it is by GRACE, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer GRACE." Rom 11:6
"Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a GIFT but as an obligation." Rom 4:4
"..being justified as a GIFT by His GRACE through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" Rom3:24
@Judgement220 "They can only come to Jesus if they were Chosen, hence the end result in John 6:60-70." Wrong. They can only COME if they BELIEVE, those that BELIEVE are given by the Father for REGENERATION, because "BELIEVING" is NOT righteousness, but "credited as righteousness" by the FATHER, yet even Judas, the Betrayer was granted by the Father to COME to Jesus to accomplish His Divine Purpose to fulfill the Scriptures, its the End Result of your lifethat will define
@apollos6640 you said: "Wrong. They can only COME if they BELIEVE, those that BELIEVE are given by the Father for REGENERATION, because "BELIEVING" is NOT righteousness, but "credited as righteousness" by the FATHER, yet even Judas, the Betrayer was granted by the Father"
"For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him" John 6:64
Jesus knew from the BEGINNING:
"It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy"Rom 9:16
@Judgement220...we've gone over this already, Jesus Raises those that COME not those that are DRAWN... Jn 6:35"I am the bread of life; he who COMES to Me will not hunger..." v37"All that the Father gives Me will COME to Me, and the one who COMES to Me I will certainly not cast out." v44 "No one can COME to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." v45 "...Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, COMES to Me." Stop INSERTING your theology
@Judgement220,Wrong.You hide your Calvinistic "gospel" from sinners until the proper time, after their conversion, likewise, everything I've said about the conclusions of calvinism are dead-on. All you've done is sugercoat such blasphemous ideas. Jn12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." Not according to your believes they were Judged & Condemned "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either good or bad"
@apollos6640 "Not according to your believes they were Judged & Condemned "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either good or bad""
"Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls...It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy."
@Judgement220, why don't you share your "Gospel" more honestly with sinners, tell them the "Greater Truth", that Jesus More than likely did NOT die for them, but that they were PREDESTINED for Damnation because God HATES them & their Sin, "in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy which He had prepared BEFOREHAND for Glory" that "Gods purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of Him who calls"... oh how GLORIOUS!! How pathetic!
@apollos6640 You ask "why don't you share your "Gospel" more honestly with sinners, tell them the "Greater Truth""
Gospel does that for me already:
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been JUDGED ALREADY, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" John 3:18
The Gospel is a calling to the elect and a condemnation unelected.
@Judgement220 Calvinism teaches that God creates "DEAD babies in the womb"-John Piper. In Calvinism, God purposely creates Man in the image of Satan, DEAD & Totally Depraved from the moment of conception, w/a Preprogrammed desire to Sin & Only Sin, lacking ALL ability to "Chose" to Repent or Beg for Mercy, the vast majority PREDESTINED for DAMNATION, "BEFORE having done anything either good or bad" so that God can later "Regenerate" SOME for "His own good pleasure", known as Double Ultimacy
@apollos6640 Total depravity means everything a man does, he does it for self interest and self gratification. Even doing good things like helping the unfortunate, a man does such for self gratification,praise, or to expect something Back.(Self interest)
God has to change his Elect IN CHRIST for their desire after the flesh to be a desire after the Spirit. That is why the Apostles refer to the believers as the "CHOSEN"
@Judgement220 ; "So naturally , Man always go after their own desires, not God's.desires as Adam,EVE, YOU and I do. God MUST CHANGE THE ELECT TO SAVE THEM! Matt 19:26".
My point stands, "Naturally" God created man DEAD in the womb, purposely created defective material
@apollos6640 "My point stands, "Naturally" God created man DEAD in the womb, purposely created defective material "
You said man is created in Satan's image, Well God created Satan as well. that is wrong. Material is defected because God cursed that material. That's why babies are born with missing limbs and diseases and other ailments. Some babies even die in the womb, because God long ago cursed that material, its called death.
@judgement220... your doctrines can be summarized in this way; God creates DEAD babies in the womb in the image of Satan-- Totally Depraved & predestined for damanation from the moment of conception, Preprogrammed to sin & only sin, lacking ALL ability to repent or beg for mercy, "BEFORE having done anything either good or bad", "vessels of wrath preprared for destruction", YET, you think you can blame man for his eternal destiny in Hell- your theology makes GOD the Author & Finisher of all sin.
@apollos6640 you said: "your doctrines can be summarized in this way; God creates DEAD babies in the womb in the image of Satan"
Wrong, God created man in the image of himself. God is self interested, he made man FOR HIMSELF and to SERVE HIM.He made man FOR HIS OWN PURPOSE. Since Man is made in the image of God, Man is also self interested; So naturally , Man always go after their own desires, not God's.desires as Adam,EVE, YOU and I do. God MUST CHANGE THE ELECT TO SAVE THEM! Matt 19:26
@judgement220 "seeing is believing" not so. Thomas said he would believe-- these people saw and did not believe-- you say due to ELECTION; but the answer is obvious in John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled." These people were carnal and only interested in feeding the Flesh. In v27 Jesus encourages them to seek in feeding the Spiritual. There's no Doctrine of election anywhere
@apollos6640 you said: "These people were carnal and only interested in feeding the Flesh"
Amen.
You said: "In v27 Jesus encourages them to seek in feeding the Spiritual."
Jesus was speaking to his 11 disciples that he had Chosen which is shown in Verse 24. BECAUSE to the unbelievers he told them that ONLY THE ELECTED CAN BELIEVE in verses 37,44, 65 and it is clearly shown only the 11 disciples BELIEVED in verse 66. This is a CLEAR teaching of the the doctrine of election.
@judgement220 "The men understood Jesus' ANSWER that believing is not Their work,but God's WORK." Wrong. These people displayed the same qualities of unbelief as Thomas, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will NOT believe." Both groups wanted some form of EVIDENCE to believe. BELEIVING is their own doing, God is not going to "Believe" for you. No Doctrine of Election anywhere in sight.
@apollos6640 "Wrong. These people displayed the same qualities of unbelief as Thomas, "Unless I SEE in His hands the imprint of the nails, ...I will NOT believe.""
Seeing is Believing, but not the case with these men!
"But I said to you that you have SEEN Me, and yet do not believe.All that the Father GIVES ME WILL come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." John 6:36-37
Only the ELECTED CAN BELIEVE! Jesus IS preaching the doctrine of Election!
@Judgement 220. "You cannot "BELIEVE" unless the Father Granted you to BELIEVE! "Believing" is the WORK OF GOD! John 6:29" WRONG. Read the whole conversation in context--John 6:28-29 "Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we DO, so that we may work the WORKS of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the WORK of God, that YOU believe in Him whom He has sent." Jesus is saying if YOU wanna call it a "Work", here it is, "BELIEVE", since "Faith without works is dead". :D
@apollos6640 John 6:29-30"Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God,that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30So they said to Him,“What then do YOU DO for a sign,so that we may see, and believe You?What WORK DO YOU perform? "
The men understood Jesus' ANSWER that believing is not Their work,but God's WORK.Then Jesus answered
"“.yet do not believe. 37“All that the Father GIVES will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" - Doctrine of ELECTION!
@Judgement "John 6:64-65 Jesus teaching the Doctrine of ELECTION!"
Why? Because Jesus knew the hearts of men? I don't read this "Doctrine of Election" in John 6 anywhere-- I do read that man is NOT granted by the Father to COME to Jesus for Eternal life for their UNBELIEF. John 6:40 states Gods WILL, "that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life". Yes, "BELIEVING = ETERNAL LIFE", was Gods COVENANT w/Abraham NOT "The Doctrine of Election"
@apollos6640 "Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves. 32 But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!” 33 The LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." Exodus 33:31-33
You see, The book of the Lord here is referring to everyone in the camp of Israel who fled egypt, wicked and righteous were in the Book of the Lord. Read in context
@Judgement220 All your pretentious forays into Greek, "perfect passive indicatives", & the rest of your mindless gibberish is irrelevant - Calvinism's false assertion that salvation is by decree is refuted by the fact that names can be removed from the Book of LIfe for disobedience - an act of man's free will. You're willfully blind & deceiving no one here but youself. You're an apostate following the heretical doctrines of demons - & ironically, doing so by your own free will.
@JackMWolfe you said: "salvation is by decree is refuted by the fact that names can be removed from the Book of LIfe for disobedience"
According to Jesus:
"For Jesus knew FROM THE BEGINNING who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”" John 6:64-65
@Judgement220 "Jesus teaching the Doctrine of ELECTION!"
Jn6:44&65 simply state that no one can or will come to Christ on their own initiative, that the Father must draw them - that doesn't negate the fact that His call can be declined nor that those who do answer it can later be removed from the Book of Life if they fall into unrepentant apostasy - exactly as verses such as Rev3:5 clearly state. ALL men are chosen in Christ & God calls them in His own time - they must then CHOOSE to respond.
@JackMWolfe Concerning John 6:44 you said: "that doesn't negate the fact that His call can be declined "
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I WILL raise him up at the last day"
You see, Jesus says "I WILL RAISE HIM UP" this means ANYONE that the Father Draws WILL COMMITT TO JESUS, no matter how much times they reject, they WILL eventually commit to Christ, because God is WORKING ON THEM. God is not a BEGGAR, God is A COMMANDER, He has AUTHORITY!
@Judgement220 "You see, Jesus says "I WILL RAISE HIM UP" this means ANYONE that the Father Draws WILL COMMITT TO JESUS, no matter how much times they reject, they WILL eventually commit to Christ, because God is WORKING ON THEM. God is not a BEGGAR, God is A COMMANDER, He has AUTHORITY!"
1st, tt does NOT say that all who the Father draws will be forced to accept Jesus OR to remain in HIm - you FORCED that into the verse. 2nd, God's authority isn't undermined - rejecters of Christ are judged.
@JackMWolfe You said: "1st, tt does NOT say that all who the Father draws will be forced to accept Jesus OR to remain in HIm"
In John 6:44 Jesus said: "I WILL RAISE HIM UP ON THE LAST DAY", means that Jesus will resurrect that person, That can only happen if that person dies physically. This means that person will always remain in Christ.
Also, Jesus did say "I MAY raise him up" OR "I WILL raise him up"?
@Judgement220 "This means that person will always remain in Christ"
Nonsense, which has already been refuted several times eg, in Rev3:5 Christ warns the apostate BELIEVERS in Sardis to repent or their names would be REMOVED from the Book of LIfe. The 1st generation of Israelites were all saved but later destroyed when they rebelled - & Paul warns the same will happen to NT believers if guilty of the same offense (1Cor10, Heb3&4). God's promises are ALL conditional - requiring obedience.
@JackMWolfe you Said: "Nonsense, which has already been refuted several times eg, in Rev3:5 Christ warns the apostate BELIEVERS in Sardis to repent or their names would be "
But Jesus said:"Yet you have a FEW PEOPLE in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, LIKE THEM, be dressed in white. I WILL NEVER BLOT OUT his name from the book of life,"
"For many are called but a few are Chosen." Matt 22:14
@Judgement220 You continue to evade the issue - God's promises are CONDITIONAL, which is even clearly expressed in the verses you rip out of context & ADD your false doctrines to! "He who OVERCOMES will be dressed in white" ie, those who don't but instead CHOOSE to continue in their apostasy will have their names REMOVED from the Book of Life. The question here is - did your hypocrisy EVER bother you, was it only after embracing Calvinism that willful deception became a virtue to you?
"Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. THEY WILL WALK WITH ME, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY. 5He who overcomes will,LIKE THEM, be dressed in white. I WILL NEVER BLOT OUT his name from the book of life"
Jesus said "THEY WILL WALK WITH ME". Jesus is not HOPING for them to walk, but HE KNOWS THEY WILL!
Those heading to destruction NEVER had their names in the Book of Life (REV 13:8,17:8) Let the Bible Speak.
@Judgement220 "Those heading to destruction NEVER had their names in the Book of Life (REV 13:8,17:8) Let the Bible Speak."
LOL, let's do let the bible speak - CHRIST HIMSELF says in Rev3:5 that the apostate believer's names will BE REMOVED from the book if they refused to repent (concentrate: - they were still written in the book when Christ was speaking!). Only those who hadn't soiled their clothes had any assurance of not having their names blotted out - the rest had to CHOOSE to repent.
@JackMWolfe You said: "CHRIST HIMSELF says in Rev3:5 that the apostate believer's names will BE REMOVED from the book if they refused to repent "
Jesus says this "So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you" Rev 3:3
Christ says nothing about erasing names from the book of life, but says he will come like a thief. Why are you lying about the Bible?
@Judgement220 "Christ says nothing about erasing names from the book of life, but says he will come like a thief. Why are you lying about the Bible?"
A purposeful misquote of the ACTUAL verse I cited which refutes you're unbiblical rubbish - you're apostasy has reached the point of willfully lying because you follow the father of lies & his spirit posseses you. That's where Calvinism's dark, condemned road leads - you promote the doctrines of demons & are inspired by Satan himself.
@JackMWolfe Now to refute names will be blot out of the book of life, in which YOU ADDED to Rev 3:5, hear John in Rev 21:27
"Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or DECEITFUL , but only those whose names are WRITTEN in the Lamb’s book of life"
It didn't say "Whose names are in the Lamb's book of Life" If names were Erased, it doesn't change the fact that they were WRITTEN in the Book. Jesus DOES NOT ERASE NAMES, Sir.
@JackMWolfe Misquote? You said that Jesus will erase names from the book of Life if they don't REPENT when Rev 3:5 doesn't say so. The Group Jesus told to Repent was in Rev 3:3, were the wicked group but Jesus was speaking to another group, The WORTHY GROUP, in Rev 3:4-5. So what you did is that you added Rev 3:4-5 to the Wicked Group, so you were Adding to the Rev 3:5.
So you are adding to the prophesy of Revelations, You need to repent.
@JackMWolfe Since you are adding to the book of Revelations:
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book." Rev 22:18
That is not a game you should play sir, adding on to Rev 3:5.
@Judgement220 "Since you are adding to the book of Revelations:"
Your pathetic ignorance is even demonstrated by your misspellings - it's the book of REVELATION. And Rev3 is VERY clear, names can be added to the Book of LIfe AND they can be removed for apostasy - something that YOU need to heed. You've been practicing every kind of deception & willful blindness here - you're a liar & a filthy apostate. You've been warned & your blood is on your own hands - repent or be destroyed.
@JackMWolfe You are certainly not someone who Fears the Lord or Respect the Word of the Lord. How can you have the audacity to add to the word of the Lord in Rev 3:5?
You misreprested the Lord Jesus Christ by saying that he will erase names when he CLEARLY didn't say that.
Where is your Respect for the Lord Jesus Christ? Do you even have His Spirit?
@Judgement220 Rev3:5 CLEARLY says that only the faithful of Sardis won't have their names removed, the apostates WILL be removed if they refuse to repent. If names can never be removed from the Book, why did Christ mention it? Was it an empty threat? Your problem is that you follow the doctrines of demons created from collusion between an unrepentant murderer (John Calvin) & Satan - that's why you exhibit their same character. You're a willfuly blind liar & apostate who refuses the truth.
@JackMWolfe concerning Rev 3:5 you said this: "the apostates WILL be removed if they refuse to repent"
You need a comprehension lesson: " ..He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. " Rev 3:1
You see, these guys are dead. Jesus NEVER said they were alive, Jesus NEVER said their names were in the Book of Life, you do said so with no proof. Now tell me:
@Judgement220 The one needing lessons in elementary comprehension is you - ALL the letters are written to BELIEVERS to guide them back into the truth from which many of them strayed. You need to apply those warnings to YOURSELF because you're an apostate who will have your own name removed if you don't repent. You're following the doctrines of demons & you're now VERY close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit - if you step over that line you can NEVER return. You've been warned.
@Judgement220 More willful blindness & prooftexting. He says in verse 2 "strengthen & invigorate what remains & is on the point of dying;" NEWSFLASH - they were once alive but their apostasy is killing them just as your willful apostasy has almost totally killed you. Unless you repent NOW, your name will also be removed from the Book of Life. You stand at the very door of death - take ONE more step & you will be destroyed for blaspheming the Holy Spirit who is clearly warning you.
@JackMWolfe Your misquote of Scripture: "strengthen & invigorate what remains & is on the point of dying"
"Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your DEEDS completed in the sight of My God." Rev 3:2
The "things that remain" are church's works. The reason the DEEDS are not completed in God's sight because the DEEDS are done by DEAD PEOPLE. The DEEDS are becoming worthless because they are not GOD CENTERED.
I do indeed have the Holy Spirit & you speak by a filthy, lying demon who possesses your soul & motivates you to preach a false gospel, to put false words into God's mouth, to blaspheme His character, & to lead others into the same destruction that awaits you. You're a condemned son of Satan himself - a reprobate with nothing to look forward to but the Lake of Fire. Clear enough?
@JackMWolfe "I do indeed have the Holy Spirit & you speak by a filthy, lying demon who possesses your soul & motivates you to preach a false gospel, to put false words into God's mouth, to blaspheme His character"
You have a "spirit" alright and it doesn't belong to Christ, because Christ's own will never make up scripture without any regard like you. I will pray to the Lord that you will WAKE UP, IF its in his Will. Hopefully you are not the lump of clay that is destined for destruction.
@Judgement220 "You have a "spirit" alright and it doesn't belong to Christ because Christ's own will never make up scripture"
You're condemned by your own filthy mouth for it's YOU that's been "making up scripture" - putting false words into Christ's mouth, preaching a false gospel, blaspheming God's character by accusing Him of creating helpless people just to cast them into hell, & for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - which you can NEVER be forgiven of. You're under an eternal curse.
@JackMWolfe Jesus says that satan is the father of lies. And you lied about scripture by REWORDING Rev 3:5, You REWORD the WORDS of THE LORD!
I bet you don't believe this scripture:
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and THEY WILL NEVER PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" John 10:27-28
I bet you don't believe because you say Jesus "Blots out Names in the book of Life" when Jesus CLEARLY didn't say that in Rev 3:5.
@Judgement220 "I bet you don't believe this "My sheep hear My voice, & I know them, & they follow Me; & I give eternal life to them, & THEY WILL NEVER PERISH; & no one will snatch them out of My hand"
Yes I do - it just doesn't apply to you. When your profession of faith was tested you chose to follow ANOTHER voice that promotes a false gospel, blasphemes God's character, casts His word to the ground, & blasphemes the Holy Spirit - a FALSE shepherd who's now destroyed you with no remedy.
@JackMWolfe "“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."
I asked you do you believe this scripture: You said:"Yes I do"
No you don't--You believe a person can lose Eternal life. How can this testament of Jesus be true if one can lose their salvation?
@Judgement220... LOL I don't believe what you believe, NOR do I agree w/ Jack that people are born Sinners. From what I've read, EVERYONES names is written in the book of life from the foundations of the world, these names are blotted out if Sin is the ultimate Status & endgame of the individual at the Judgment seat of Christ-- if they never received Gods gift of Salvation-- there's nothing scary about it. Why don't you acknowledge those verses I've mentioned? Scary isn't it?
@Judgement220.. "When were the names written in the Book of Life?", uhhh OK. Here's a MORE powerful question, "Can man Fall Away from the Faith, and does Jesus have the authority and power to ERASE someones name from the Book of Life?" The Biblical answer is YES to both. You have Paul stating it in 2 Thess.3:2, the Apostasy-- the Falling away. Branches being cut-off if they DON'T continue in Rom.11:22. Branches IN CHRIST not bearing Fruit in Jn.15:2 & names being ERASED in Rev.3:5. Get Real!
@apollos6640 Excuse me, you clearly did not answer the question. Tell me when were the names written in the Book of Life? You seem VERY scared to answer that question. The TRUTH is scary, isn't it?
"Such a God is not an all loving is not WORTHY of all OUR LOVE" " A God who doesn't try to save the other two is not an all loving God" Dr Geisler (1:20 to 2:45)
Paul says:
"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, " Rom 9:22-23
For all those who reject calvinism are fools, you need to read for yourselves, T.U.L.I.P of Calvinism, this is the truth. Nothing in the scriptures can refute calvinism.
@alnewberry " "forced love" isn't forced at all. It's just the fact of someone loving you whether you love them back or not."
God's expression of love in the bible is "If I be lifted up I will DRAW all men unto Me" & "Behold, I stand at the door & KNOCK; if anyone heeds My voice & opens the door, I will come in to him..." Calvinism's version is "I will drag all those I've selected to Myself whether they like it or not" and "I'll huff & puff & blow your door down" Calvinism is pure heresy.
@Judgement220 "Now tell me, Did YOU MAKE YOURSELF OPEN THE DOOR OR DID THE GOSPEL MAKE YOU OPEN THE DOOR?"
Tell me, do you think your question was decreed by God or did you compose & post it of your own free will? If it was decreed - did God choose each phrase & keystroke for you & make you type it out exactly?
@Judgement "God Decreed me to search for the Truth, but it is my free will how I post it."
But wasn't it also your free will to either obey or refuse to obey God's decree to search for the Truth? And did God force you to post a question based on your search - wasn't that of your own free will?
@JackMWolfe "But wasn't it also your free will to either obey or refuse to boey God's Decree"
Absolutely its my free will to obey or refuse God's decree, as a matter of fact, I refused many times before, but God kept on setting up roadblocks in my life to FORCE me to seek the truth.
"Did God force you to post a question"--No, It's based on my FREE WILL to do so.
Now tell me: DID you make yourself open the Door to the Lord, or did the Gospel make you open the Door? - Please enlighten me.
The problem with this illustration is that the boys know they are drowning, and are "spiritually alive". The Bible teaches that we have all gone astray and are enemies of God (Rom 8:8-11). In Rom 1:23-25 God gives humanity over to a debased mind, and furthermore in Rom 3:10-20 Paul quotes the Old Testament declaring that there are none who seeks God, "no not one (10&12)". Ephesians 2:1-2 says we were "dead" in our trespasses. Not struggling to stay alive. This illustration is not Biblical.
SLDGHMMR86 1 month ago
@SLDG The illustration is quite biblical - man is indeed born separated from God, won't seek Him on his own, & can't restore the relationship even if he did. God must supply a way back thru Christ, intervene in each person's life by convicting them of sin & calling them to repentance, & those who then choose to obey & repent are given to Christ for regeneration. Lots of people don't know they're drowning - t's a work of the Spirit to convince them of their sin & need for a Savior (Jn16:8)
JackMWolfe 1 month ago
Typo: 1 Tim.2:4
apollos6640 7 months ago
@metanoe01 "as for Acts 17-that's no different than 2 Peter 3:9"
Yeah, just dismiss the word of God when it DOESN'T conform to Calvinism. 2 Peter 3:9 God ONLY wants the ELECT not to prerish... And Ez.18:32, that's no different than 2 Peter 3:9 as well right? And 2 Tim.2:4, that's no different tha 2 Peter 3:9 as well right? Titus 3:4 (Gods love for MANKIND) Same as 2 Peter 3:9 right? Rev.22:17, God only wants the ELECT to COME same as 2 Peter 3:9 right?
Your an IMPOSTER to Christianity.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos "Your an IMPOSTER to Christianity"
Exactly, it never ceases to amaze me how willfuly blind people become when they ingest these false doctrines - the bible speaks of them as becoming drunk with the wine of spiritual adultery. It's like talking with an incoherent alcoholic who's lost the capacity for rational thought - Kalvin Kool-aid turns them into mindless zombies.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
How did God foreknow that Adam would sin? He foreknew it because He decreed it and irresistibly brought it about in accordance with that decree. Adam could no more resist the eternal decree to rebel against God than he could create a universe.
apollos6640 7 months ago
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@JackMWolfe
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the FREE GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 2:11 NASB
For there is no partiality with God.
Then WHY does God ONLY & EXCLUSIVELY Give His FREE GIFT to HIS Chosen Ones, His VIP called "The ELECT"?
apollos6640 7 months ago
His illustration is a prime example of unbelievers going to hell. That's what God said will happen. God does hate some people - ever read Proverbs 6:16?
As for God choosing to save some - how about Ephesians 1:3-4? Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly placed, EVEN AS HE CHOSE US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, THAT WE SHOULD BE HOLY AND BLAMELESS BEFORE HIM.
metanoeo1 7 months ago
@metanoeo "how about Ephesians 1:3-4? Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly placed, HE CHOSE US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, THAT WE SHOULD BE HOLY & BLAMELESS BEFORE HIM."
You subtracted man's free will & added an element of God's force which aren't actually in the verse. Men must choose to receive God's will for themselves for it to be efficacious, salvation isn't forced upon them.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe It clearly says, "He chose us." We can't choose Him unless we are chosen by Him. Our holiness and blamelessness come from Christ - 2 Cor. 5:21 "For our sake He (God) made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." Isaiah said our righteousness is as filthy rags. He chose us, He makes us righteous, He makes us holy and we do have a part - to live worthy of the calling to which we were called - Eph. 4:1, which is only possible in Christ.
metanoeo1 7 months ago
@metanoeo "It clearly says, "He chose us." We can't choose Him unless we are chosen by Him"
That's right but nothing in this verse says those who God chooses MUST choose Him in return - that's a false idea Calvinism forces between the lines. Read the bible without smearing Reformed doctrines all over the pages. Wake up - salvation is a GIFT which man can choose to reject.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe It's amazing how people make assumptions when they don't know a thing about what they are saying. I used to be an elder in a Wesleyan/Arminian denomination and spent the better part of my adult life there, but always felt unsettled. It was only after intense study of the Scriptures and asking for the leading of the Holy Spirit to lead me into the truth that I came to the understanding I now have of Scripture and doctrine. So you can drop your "smearing" rhetoric and move along.
metanoeo1 7 months ago
@metanoeo 1st, I made no assumptions - you made it perfectly clear that you reject the true gospel found in verses such as Acts17:29-30 ie ALL men are "God's offspring" & the gospel is for "ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE". Your gospel is "Repent for Christ MIGHT have died for you" & you accuse God of creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell. 2nd, you obviously DIDN'T study the scriptures enough & it wasn't the HOLY Spirit who led you into Calvin's blasphemous heresy.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@metanoeo1 Brother, this 'I used to be a...' stuff isn't impressive. I used to be a calvinist. Guess what? I not only felt slightly unsettled, I felt physically and spiritually sick. The Holy Spirit drew me away from this loveless, methodical, mechanical theology that makes God the author of sin.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@metanoeo1 Calvinism in a nutshell: God does hate some people. Only calvinism teaches that a supposedly righteous god, who is omnipotent to boot, would create certain people for the sole purpose of hating them, and then damning them. Who needs demons with a 'god' like this?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones Proverbs 6:16 clearly says there are people God hates. As a former elder in a Wesleyan/Arminian denomination who, praise God, was delivered from the fallacy of that doctrine, you're barking up the wrong tree thinking you're going to change my mind with you rhetoric. When you develop a real counterpoint, let's debate. Until then, I bid you goodbye.
metanoeo1 7 months ago
@metanoeo1 Hey, I'm not here to change your mind. I'm just saying: this "I used to be"-rhetoric isn't impressive. Furthermore, since you claim Proverbs 6:16 indeed reads God 'hates' people, and that from the beginning of time before they were even born: what is so good about your god? Keep wallowing in your election.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@metanoeo "Proverbs 6:16 clearly says there are people God hates. As a former elder in a Wesleyan/Arminian denomination who, praise God, was delivered from the fallacy of that doctrine, you're barking up the wrong tree thinking you're going to change my mind with you rhetoric"
1st, Pr16 is a list of THINGS God hates ie sin, not people. 2nd, what "rhetoric" did you find in Acts17:29-30 to reject? ALL men are "God's offspring" & the gospel is for "ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE" You promote heresy.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe You better re-read Prov 6:16 because it clearly ends with "one who stirs up dissension." It doesn't say "stirring up" but "one who" that's a person, Jack. Surely you can see that. If not, I'm done discussing with you because you can't see what's right in front of your face.
As for Acts 17 - that is no different than 2 Peter 3:9 where God desires all men to be saved. It is not his expressed will that all will be saved, but His desire as the creator of mankind. It is not decreed.
metanoeo1 7 months ago
@metanoeo "You better re-read Prov 6:16 because it clearly ends with "one who stirs up dissension."
1st, it's YOU that needs to read the start of the verse - "These six THINGS the Lord hates" & stop misusing God's word to foster your blasphemous doctrines. It's a list of what the Lord hates & those who engage in them will face His judgment unless they repent. 2nd, salvation is indeed NOT decreed but it's God's desire - God offers it as a GIFT & as such, it must be accepted to be efficacious.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe 1st - it's you who are misusing the word. See I can argue like an uneducated 4th grader, too. What is the last thing on that list of 7? Notice it says 6 then 7. "One who stirs up dissension" is a PERSON. A basic course in grammar will explain that fact.
As for salvation being accepted, Christ doesn't need our acceptance. There is a big word called a "dichotomy". Look that up in your dictionary then you can begin to understand the decree/desire issue more clearly.
metanoeo1 6 months ago
@metanoeo "See I can argue like an uneducated 4th grader, too."
1st, that'd be an improvement, you've been like a petulant preschooler - the "things" God refers to in Pr6 are SINS that God hates. If man CHOOSES to engage in them then he makes HIMSELF an object of wrath. You subtracted the 1st part, added your false doctrines, & produced a deadly concoction of Kalvin Kool-aid. 2nd, there's no mysterious "dichotomy" about salvation & God's will - He's decreed that it's for whosoever wills.
JackMWolfe 6 months ago
@JackMWolfe Opponents of open theism include Norman Geisler, Bruce A. Ware, Thomas R. Schreiner, John Frame, John Piper, and Millard Erickson
Even Norm thinks you're a hairy tic.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@CBALLEN Not impressed with such fallacious "appeals to authority" especially since you routinely trash some in the list anyway. You stand rebuked by MY authority which is God's word - that's why you RUN from the verses that refute your profane garbage such as Lk7:30, Rom5:18, Rom11:32, 2Pet2:1, Ex6:6-8, Rev3:5, Acts17:29-30, Mt23:37, Jer 7:31, & the latest, Mt22:8-14 where Christ says salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people. You're a confirmed imposter, a blasphemer, & a lying apostate.
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@JackMWolfe Why are you rebuking me?For telling you the truth?Besides ,you have no authority here,your god doesn't exist,he's a delusion.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
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@CBALLEN LOL.1st, answering verses like Lk7:30 which says the Pharisess "rejected God's will for themselves" by chanting Calvinist doctrines trying to make it vanish ie "God's will can never be thwarted" DOES NOT qualify as answering it - what it DOES qualify as is WITCHCRAFT! 2nd Ps139:4 only affirms that God knows the heart &"out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (Lk6:45)"- which has NOTHING to with the decisions man makes in his own heart, it doesn't support Calvinism.
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@JackMWolfe How do you get that I run from those verses when I already answered them?You're the one who never answers questions,none of you open theists do.BTW,is Satan a lion on God;s leash?Doesn't ps.139 tells us that God knows all the words we'll say before we even know?Can you answer those?
CBALLEN 5 months ago
3rd, regarding your inane question "Is Satan on a leash?" - I told you before that since you're the one following him, you should simply look up at his neck & see. 4th, you've avoided answering all the verses I listed & many more - sometimes for weeks, sometimes not at all, & even when you do only by mantras composed of your brain-dead theology. Your latest SILENCE is about Christ's words in Mt22:8-14 that salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people - either submit to His word or renounce HIm!
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@JackMWolfe You are just rattling off flawed opinions,fools always do things like that,and you're no exception,but the rule.Anyone who believe God to be ignorant of anything,is certainly putting himself on a pedestal where he doesn't belong,humble yourself and be still,then maybe you could hear the real God.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@JackMWolfe It's still hilarious to see you arguing on a video for a man who believes that you and all your followers are HERETICS, HE DOESN'T EVEN SAY THAT ABOUT REFORMERS.LOL
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@CBALLEN All your evasive gibberish, personal attacks, & every other diversion you tried can't hide the fact that for over 2 weeks now, just as you've done with MANY other verses that directly refute your profane doctrines, you've ignored & evaded what Christ said in Mt22:8-14 - that salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people - NOT forced on some & denied to others as you falsely claimed. The fact is you renounce Christ & reject His word - you're a liar, an apostate, a false prophet & a coward.
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@CBALLEN Those I really feel sorry for are your poor kids - have you told them yet that you worship a God who commands people to do things they can't do & then punishes them for not obeying? Try explaining it by giving one of them a gift & nothing to the other - if they're confused tell them you're showing love because they're both just worthless brats who don't deserve anything, & if they still don't understand Calvinism - take them for ice cream & throw one of them out of the car on the way.
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@CBALLEN What do your kids think about you running from the challenge to simply stand before God & invoke His judgment between the true believer & the imposter according to Heb10:30? “The Lord will judge & determine & solve &settle the cause & the cases of His people” Do they already know you’re a gutless coward or will they have to find out at the Final Judgment just before you’re cast into the Lake of Fire? Exactly how do you keep from getting sick to your stomach when looking in a mirror?
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@JackMWolfe My kids believed in the One true God before I did.What are you going to do when your kids find out that you taught them about the wrong God?
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@CBALLEN AGAIN: for weeks, just as you've done in the past with other verses that directly refute your profane doctrines, you've evaded what Christ said in Mt22:8-14 - that salvation is by INVITATION & for ALL people - NOT forced on some & denied to others as you falsely claimed. You therefore renounce Christ by rejecting His word - you're a liar, an apostate, a false prophet AND a coward - not willing to step forward according to Heb10:30 & invoke God to judge the true believer & the imposter.
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@JackMWolfe Salvation is from God,by God and for God.Invitations mean,many are called,but few are chosen by God according to the counsel of His will and not by the will or choice of man. GOD will certainly judge who He saved,He doesn't play games.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@CBALLEN Salvation is indeed of God & many invitations are sent out but declined while others like you try to enter the wedding with filthy garments instead of what GOD supplies - & they'll be REJECTED for the insult. He definitely doesn't play games with those who reject His word & blaspheme the Holy Spirit - you're ALREADY eternally condemned. Stand forth with your demonic doctrines & the counterfeit dirtbag you promote & be judged according to Heb10:30 - let all imposters be destroyed NOW!
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@JackMWolfe Many are called but few are chosen,not few choose.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
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JackMWolfe 5 months ago
@CBALLEN It's both you idiot. Even though they might choose HIM, they STILL must meet the conditions or will be excluded from the kingdom as per the parable of the Talents, the 5 rejected bridesmaids, the man who came without the wedding garment, or those like YOU who embrace the doctrines of demons & defile themselves permanently by blaspheming the Spirit, Your stupidity has all been answered repeatedly - go stick your filthy snout in a bucket of Reformed swill until you drown in it you coward
JackMWolfe 5 months ago
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If my son was playing in the street and wanted to continue playing in the street and there was a car coming and I dragged him out of the street against his will, it would not be "rape", it would be love.
Jared104 7 months ago
If my son was playing in the street and wanted to continue playing in the street and there was a car coming, it would not be "rape" for me to drag him out of the street against his will, it would be love.
Jared104 7 months ago
@Jared104 "If my son was playing in the street & there was a car coming, it would not be "rape" for me to drag him out of the street against his will, it would be love."
The point the video makes is if several of your children were about to be killed why would you only rescue one & leave the others to die, as Calvinism accuses God of doing? The truth is that God calls them ALL to turn from sin, desiring that NONE of them perish - but He doesn't force salvation on anyone nor does He deny it.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "You can't repent unless God GRANTS YOU to REPENT."
Esau had a Callous Heart and "found No chance for repentance" Heb.12:17
You will not be GRANTED repentance if you will not willfully desire to obey God
"Repentance is a gift to undeserving sinners granted by a merciful, kind God. This does not deny human decision in repentance but rather points to the fact that even our repentance is rooted in God’ and the opportunities granted by God." A.W. Tozer
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said: "Esau had a Callous Heart and "found No chance for repentance" Heb.12:17 You will not be GRANTED repentance if you will not willfully desire to obey God"
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." 1 Cor 2:14
Men are God haters, How can man "willfully desire to obey God" when they Hate God? Doesn't God have to change that man First?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 ... Your god predestined men to hate him in the first place.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
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@TennesseeOwnsMyBones "... Your god predestined men to hate him in the first place."
Yes God predestined man to hate him, God predestined many things He does not like, like Death.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "we also know that God has a track record of making an example of the unrighteous perishing to make his power known to all people." Yes, but God would rather that the wicked turn & live. Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of ANYONE who dies," declares the Lord God. "Therefore, repent and live." Christ warns those in Sardis TO REPENT, otherwise they WILL perish because their works are incomplete. "You see that a man is JUSTIFIED by works and not by faith alone."
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 "Yes, but God would rather that the wicked turn & live. Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of ANYONE who dies," declares the Lord God. "Therefore, repent and live."
God wants and desires All men to repent and be saved, But man is incapable of repentance unless.
"with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God MAY GRANT THEM REPENTANCE leading to the knowledge of the truth," 2 Tim 2:25
You can't repent unless God GRANTS YOU to REPENT.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Luke 9:55-56 But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them."] And they went on to another village.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Could it be that Jesus is using the DEAD PEOPLE to demonstrate HIS GLORY to the ONES with unsoiled Garments? No one will ever know." We do know. We know they DO have the ability to Repent, whether they do or not is irrelevant, Gods Will for Glorification is unscathed. But they DO have the ability to repent, so Christ warns them because He desires that they do not perish.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 "But they DO have the ability to repent, so Christ warns them because He desires that they do not perish"
Again you don't know. You don't know if anyone perished ,you don't know if anyone repented. But we do know there are righteous ones and unrighteous ones in the Sardis Church; we also know that God has a track record of making an example of the unrighteous perishing to make his power known to all people.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "How do you know they have the ability to REPENT?" Because the Scriptures teach of being "DEAD" And then Repenting.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 I asked you how do you know the Dead that Jesus is speaking of have the Ability to repent, You said:
"Because the Scriptures teach of being "DEAD" And then Repenting. "
Dead people cannot repent; God has to give that person the Ability to Repent FIRST.
The only way to know who has the ability to repent is if that person repents, there is no records to show which one of the Dead repented or not; therefore you cannot say they had the ability to repent.
Judgement220 7 months ago
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@Judgement220 John 10:27 "My sheep HEAR My voice, and I know them, and THEY FOLLOW ME;" Jesus' Sheep HEAR Christ, & FOLLOW Christ. What does that mean to you?
apollos6640 7 months ago
Revelation 3:3 "Remember, then, what you RECEIVED & HEARD. KEEP it, and REPENT. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come AGAINST YOU" Jesus is declaring that he may or may not "come against" them CONDITIONED on their Repentance. They're DEAD, but they RECEIVED & HEARD things of God, & are now being commanded to REPENT, they DO have the ability to "Wake up" and "Repent" if not, Jesus WILL come against them. Don't be deceived by Satan
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said: "They're DEAD, but they RECEIVED & HEARD things of God, & are now being commanded to REPENT, they DO have the ability to "Wake up" and "Repent" if not, Jesus WILL come against them"
How do you know they have the ability to REPENT? Could it be that Jesus is using the DEAD PEOPLE to demonstrate HIS GLORY to the ONES with unsoiled Garments? No will ever know.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@apollos "Don't be deceived by Satan"
Your warning is too late for him, he's been eternally lost to Calvinism. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is what lies at the end of Calvinism's dark, twisted road & once these deceived wretches step over that line they can never come back. Save your breath with this reprobate, he's gone forever - but hopefully any observers who might still think that Calvinism should be considered anything but a deadly, heretical cult will be admonished & sober up.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe.. Revelation 3:2-3 ESV Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is ABOUT TO DIE, for I have not found your works COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you RECEIVED and heard. KEEP it, and REPENT. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come AGAINST YOU." Jesus is speaking to a group of people who are "ABOUT TO DIE" & be destroyed UNLESS they repent, its as obvious as the oxygen we breathe. This J220 guy is DENIAL!!
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos "This J220 guy is DENIAL!!"
Worse - a committed worker of iniquity trolling for victims to destroy, a walking dead man.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe.. this is seriously disgusting, can you see his logic? Imagine Jesus saying, "He who overcomes I will not destroy him in the lake of fire" This willfully blind Calvinist would return with, "Jesus never said he destroys in the Lake of Fire!" Yes He says he wont-- but He DOES have the POWER to! Time to go.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos Yes, the conversation is way beyond ludicrous & totally redundant, there's no purpose in beating such a dead horse. This is one that's determined for himself that his destiny will be the glue factory.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@Judgement220... "Christ says nothing about erasing names from the book of life... Why are you lying about the Bible?" Revelation 3:5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not ERASE his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Why are YOU lying about what Christ said? Christ has the authority to ERASE names from the Book of Life and says that if you do overcome, your name will NOT be erased. Stop lying.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 you said: "Christ has the authority to ERASE names from the Book of Life and says that if you do overcome, your name will NOT be erased. Stop lying."
You are lying because Rev 3:5 IS ONLY REFERRING TO THE ONES WHO ARE WORTHY,
You are the one who has issues interpreting this verse because Jesus DID NOT SAY HE ERASES NAMES.
Jesus in Rev 3:5 says "I will never erase their names from the Book of Life" Jesus NEVER SAYS he erases names.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@apollos This blasphemous liar isn't worth the time - some people have made a permanent decision not only to close their ears to the truth but to oppose it by every wicked means possible. Time to shake the dust off against this willfully blind reprobate....
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@Judgement220... JackMWolfe recited Rev.3:5, then you tell him he's wrong by reciting v3. Do you realize Christ is not yet finished with the topic/conversation at v3 and does indeed continue on and finish at v5? Have you purposely misquoted him to come off 'rebuking' him when in fact you have not?
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos "JackMWolfe recited Rev.3:5, then you tell him he's wrong by reciting v3."
In most conversations this would be considered a misunderstanding but I've referred to Rev3:5 numerous times & NEVER to verse 3 - so it's an obvious underhanded ploy to evade the fact that his blasphemous doctrines have been refuted. Calvinism is based entirely on deception & so its adherents become well practiced liars - true sons of Satan who will join all other liars in the Lake of Fire (Rev21:8).
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@apollos6640 "Do you realize Christ is not yet finished with the topic/conversation at v3 and does indeed continue on and finish at v5"
The problem is that in Verse 4, it starts with a CONJUNCTION in the greek word "alla" which means "BUT, YET, EXCEPT" Which represents a break in thought, from the Verse 3.
JackMWolfe forget to consider that Jesus switched focus from the wicked ones to the righteous ones in Verse 4 so Verse 5 has nothing to do with the wicked that had to repent in verse 3.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "The Lord Gave me salvation because I earned it by obeying Him. It is I, who decides when and if I'm saved. It is I who can overrule God on what he wants for me, It Is I who decides my destiny,because God has to depend on my choice to be saved or not." God is Love & He offers Salvation to ALL who obey Him, Luke 17:10 "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’" and I do.
apollos6640 7 months ago
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@apollos6640 you quote "We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done" Luke 17:10
Then how can you say that your work earns you your salvation, and yet say your unworthy? That makes no sense at all? Please explain to me?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220, "I fixed it for you", no, I was actually quoting Mark Driscoll.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 Im not Mark Driscoll. "Even if I'm Faithless" is very misleading, it makes it sound that you can be faithless while in Grace. God makes you from Faithful when you are Faithless. God makes you alive when you're dead.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "The bottom line is that James mentioned that Abraham was credited Righteousness (SALVATION) WHEN he believed in Gen 15:6, So clearly James is referring to the Faith of Abraham that was Justified and Perfected in Gen 22 when Abraham offered his son. There is no other way explain it because of James mentioning of Gen 15:6." I agree... he was "credited righteousness" & his "Faith was Completed by his works", there could've been a point where he could've FAILED much like Saul.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 Now let me do you:
"The Lord Gave me salvation because I earned it by obeying Him. It is I, who decides when and if I'm saved. It is I who can overrule God on what he wants for me, It Is I who decides my destiny,because God has to depend on my choice to be saved or not. Eventhough I sin, my next work covers up my previous sins.."
With power like that, who need a God? Huh?
With a doctrine like that, who needs God?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 James 2:21-22 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works WHEN he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that FAITH was active along with his WORKS, and FAITH was COMPLETED by his WORKS". It couldn't be made any clearer, "Faith was COMPLETED by His WORKS", this is an Active Faith which brings forth JUSTIFICATION, not a DEAD faith that says, "God CHOSE me for Salvation BEFORE having done anything either good or bad, even if I'm Faithless He's PREDESTINED me for Glory!"
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 you said: "not a DEAD faith that says, "God CHOSE me for Salvation BEFORE having done anything either good or bad, even if I'm Faithless He's PREDESTINED me for Glory!""
Let me correct you:
"God chose me for salvation before having done anything good or bad, at his appointed time during my life he had mercy on me and made me alive to be Faithful to him by HIS GRACE, I will NEVER Fall away from Him because it is His Spirit that guides me"
I fixed it for you.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 Justified = Salvation--It makes PERFECT sence, Abraham believed God, where's the proof that He believed God? Abraham delivered up Isaac as a sacrificial offering-- James is declaring there better be "Works" active with your FAITH, otherwise you have a DEAD FAITH. Declaring to "Believe" in insufficient for Justification w/out works, or an Active Faith.
"Since we have been JUSTIFIED by Faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said: "Justified = Salvation--It makes PERFECT sence, Abraham believed God, where's the proof that He believed God?"
The bottom line is that James mentioned that Abraham was credited Righteousness(SALVATION) WHEN he believed in Gen 15:6, So clearly James is referring to the Faith of Abraham that was Justified and Perfected in Gen 22 when Abraham offered his son. There is no other way explain it because of James mentioning of Gen 15:6.
Dead Faith cannot bring works by the way.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 no I'm not involved w/CoC.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@Judegement220 "Abraham was CHOSEN By God BEFORE HIS WORKS." So what? He wasn't JUSTIFIED until AFTER he displayed his Faith BY his works.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said: "He wasn't JUSTIFIED until AFTER he displayed his Faith BY his works."
According to James 2:14-26, the subject is Faith, he was Justified for having Faith WHEN he offered Isaac IN James 2:23, Abraham was Justified with GOD when he Believed. Justified DOES NOT mean salvation because James said so in Verse 23 by quoting Gen 15:6, otherwise it would not make any sense.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220, "the subjext is about faith not about Salvation", says you, not the Scriptures. It says Abraham was JUSTIFIED by "Works & NOT by Faith alone." Now you're claiming "Justified" has nothing to do with "Salvation"?
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said: "Now you're claiming "Justified" has nothing to do with "Salvation"?"
The context of James 2:14-26 warrants it, because the prior verses was referring to Faith, not salvation. Therefore Abraham was Justified for having Faith, because James mentioned that he was Justified by God when he Believed in verse 23. It simply would not make sense if "Jusitifed" means "Salvation" because of verse 23.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 ... James 2:20-24. John 15:2, 6 "Every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit... If anyone does not ABIDE IN ME he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned." It is your responsibility to ABIDE IN CHRIST, otherwise you WILL be cut-off. Salvation is NOT a Free Ride, "why call me LORD, LORD and NOT DO AS I SAY?" Do as he says.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"--and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You must be a CoC. Let me break it to you. The subject of James 2:14-26 is about Faith not Salvation. Abraham was CHOSEN By God BEFORE HIS WORKS. Why did God gave the promise to Abraham without Abraham doing anything in Gen 12?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@judgement220 ...you as either that Christian who was FOUND IN CHRIST, by expressing your faith WITH works, or that wannabe who considers Salvation as a FREE RIDE, whom Jesus will answer, "I NEVER knew you, depart from me you worker of iniquity."
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said: "Christian who was FOUND IN CHRIST, by expressing your faith WITH works, or that wannabe who considers Salvation as a FREE RIDE,"--Human wisdom
"But if it is by GRACE, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer GRACE." Rom 11:6
"Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a GIFT but as an obligation." Rom 4:4
"..being justified as a GIFT by His GRACE through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" Rom3:24
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "They can only come to Jesus if they were Chosen, hence the end result in John 6:60-70." Wrong. They can only COME if they BELIEVE, those that BELIEVE are given by the Father for REGENERATION, because "BELIEVING" is NOT righteousness, but "credited as righteousness" by the FATHER, yet even Judas, the Betrayer was granted by the Father to COME to Jesus to accomplish His Divine Purpose to fulfill the Scriptures, its the End Result of your lifethat will define
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 you said: "Wrong. They can only COME if they BELIEVE, those that BELIEVE are given by the Father for REGENERATION, because "BELIEVING" is NOT righteousness, but "credited as righteousness" by the FATHER, yet even Judas, the Betrayer was granted by the Father"
"For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him" John 6:64
Jesus knew from the BEGINNING:
"It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy"Rom 9:16
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220...we've gone over this already, Jesus Raises those that COME not those that are DRAWN... Jn 6:35"I am the bread of life; he who COMES to Me will not hunger..." v37"All that the Father gives Me will COME to Me, and the one who COMES to Me I will certainly not cast out." v44 "No one can COME to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." v45 "...Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, COMES to Me." Stop INSERTING your theology
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said: "Jesus Raises those that COME not those that are DRAWN"
They can only come to Jesus if they were Chosen, hence the end result in John 6:60-70 Jesus says:
"Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” "
If you can't get Jesus teaching with a real life result at the end of the Chapter. You are simply lost. Only the Chosen can come to Christ.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220,Wrong.You hide your Calvinistic "gospel" from sinners until the proper time, after their conversion, likewise, everything I've said about the conclusions of calvinism are dead-on. All you've done is sugercoat such blasphemous ideas. Jn12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." Not according to your believes they were Judged & Condemned "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either good or bad"
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 "Not according to your believes they were Judged & Condemned "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either good or bad""
"Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls...It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy."
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220, why don't you share your "Gospel" more honestly with sinners, tell them the "Greater Truth", that Jesus More than likely did NOT die for them, but that they were PREDESTINED for Damnation because God HATES them & their Sin, "in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy which He had prepared BEFOREHAND for Glory" that "Gods purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of Him who calls"... oh how GLORIOUS!! How pathetic!
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You ask "why don't you share your "Gospel" more honestly with sinners, tell them the "Greater Truth""
Gospel does that for me already:
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been JUDGED ALREADY, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" John 3:18
The Gospel is a calling to the elect and a condemnation unelected.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 Calvinism teaches that God creates "DEAD babies in the womb"-John Piper. In Calvinism, God purposely creates Man in the image of Satan, DEAD & Totally Depraved from the moment of conception, w/a Preprogrammed desire to Sin & Only Sin, lacking ALL ability to "Chose" to Repent or Beg for Mercy, the vast majority PREDESTINED for DAMNATION, "BEFORE having done anything either good or bad" so that God can later "Regenerate" SOME for "His own good pleasure", known as Double Ultimacy
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 Total depravity means everything a man does, he does it for self interest and self gratification. Even doing good things like helping the unfortunate, a man does such for self gratification,praise, or to expect something Back.(Self interest)
God has to change his Elect IN CHRIST for their desire after the flesh to be a desire after the Spirit. That is why the Apostles refer to the believers as the "CHOSEN"
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 ; "So naturally , Man always go after their own desires, not God's.desires as Adam,EVE, YOU and I do. God MUST CHANGE THE ELECT TO SAVE THEM! Matt 19:26".
My point stands, "Naturally" God created man DEAD in the womb, purposely created defective material
apollos6640 7 months ago
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@apollos6640 "My point stands, "Naturally" God created man DEAD in the womb, purposely created defective material "
You said man is created in Satan's image, Well God created Satan as well. that is wrong. Material is defected because God cursed that material. That's why babies are born with missing limbs and diseases and other ailments. Some babies even die in the womb, because God long ago cursed that material, its called death.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@judgement220... your doctrines can be summarized in this way; God creates DEAD babies in the womb in the image of Satan-- Totally Depraved & predestined for damanation from the moment of conception, Preprogrammed to sin & only sin, lacking ALL ability to repent or beg for mercy, "BEFORE having done anything either good or bad", "vessels of wrath preprared for destruction", YET, you think you can blame man for his eternal destiny in Hell- your theology makes GOD the Author & Finisher of all sin.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 you said: "your doctrines can be summarized in this way; God creates DEAD babies in the womb in the image of Satan"
Wrong, God created man in the image of himself. God is self interested, he made man FOR HIMSELF and to SERVE HIM.He made man FOR HIS OWN PURPOSE. Since Man is made in the image of God, Man is also self interested; So naturally , Man always go after their own desires, not God's.desires as Adam,EVE, YOU and I do. God MUST CHANGE THE ELECT TO SAVE THEM! Matt 19:26
Judgement220 7 months ago
@judgement220 "seeing is believing" not so. Thomas said he would believe-- these people saw and did not believe-- you say due to ELECTION; but the answer is obvious in John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled." These people were carnal and only interested in feeding the Flesh. In v27 Jesus encourages them to seek in feeding the Spiritual. There's no Doctrine of election anywhere
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 you said: "These people were carnal and only interested in feeding the Flesh"
Amen.
You said: "In v27 Jesus encourages them to seek in feeding the Spiritual."
Jesus was speaking to his 11 disciples that he had Chosen which is shown in Verse 24. BECAUSE to the unbelievers he told them that ONLY THE ELECTED CAN BELIEVE in verses 37,44, 65 and it is clearly shown only the 11 disciples BELIEVED in verse 66. This is a CLEAR teaching of the the doctrine of election.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@judgement220 "The men understood Jesus' ANSWER that believing is not Their work,but God's WORK." Wrong. These people displayed the same qualities of unbelief as Thomas, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will NOT believe." Both groups wanted some form of EVIDENCE to believe. BELEIVING is their own doing, God is not going to "Believe" for you. No Doctrine of Election anywhere in sight.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 "Wrong. These people displayed the same qualities of unbelief as Thomas, "Unless I SEE in His hands the imprint of the nails, ...I will NOT believe.""
Seeing is Believing, but not the case with these men!
"But I said to you that you have SEEN Me, and yet do not believe.All that the Father GIVES ME WILL come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." John 6:36-37
Only the ELECTED CAN BELIEVE! Jesus IS preaching the doctrine of Election!
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement 220. "You cannot "BELIEVE" unless the Father Granted you to BELIEVE! "Believing" is the WORK OF GOD! John 6:29" WRONG. Read the whole conversation in context--John 6:28-29 "Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we DO, so that we may work the WORKS of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the WORK of God, that YOU believe in Him whom He has sent." Jesus is saying if YOU wanna call it a "Work", here it is, "BELIEVE", since "Faith without works is dead". :D
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 John 6:29-30"Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God,that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30So they said to Him,“What then do YOU DO for a sign,so that we may see, and believe You?What WORK DO YOU perform? "
The men understood Jesus' ANSWER that believing is not Their work,but God's WORK.Then Jesus answered
"“.yet do not believe. 37“All that the Father GIVES will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" - Doctrine of ELECTION!
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement "John 6:64-65 Jesus teaching the Doctrine of ELECTION!"
Why? Because Jesus knew the hearts of men? I don't read this "Doctrine of Election" in John 6 anywhere-- I do read that man is NOT granted by the Father to COME to Jesus for Eternal life for their UNBELIEF. John 6:40 states Gods WILL, "that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life". Yes, "BELIEVING = ETERNAL LIFE", was Gods COVENANT w/Abraham NOT "The Doctrine of Election"
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640 You said "I don't read this "Doctrine of Election"
Well hear Jesus in John 6:35:
"All that the FATHER GIVES ME will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out"
It is not because Jesus KNEW the hearts of men is because:
"For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been GRANTED HIM from the Father." John 6:65(NASB)
You cannot "BELIEVE" unless the Father Granted you to BELIEVE! "Believing" is the WORK OF GOD! John 6:29
Judgement220 7 months ago
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@judgement220
Psalm 69:28 "May they be blotted out of the book of life
And may they not be recorded with the righteous."
Revelation 20:15 "And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Exodus 32:33 The Lord said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book."...
Put these verses together, if the ultimate status and endgame of your life at the Judgement seat is in Sin, you are BLOTTED out
apollos6640 7 months ago
@apollos6640
Psalms 69:28 "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living and not be written with the righteous"
This refers people who cease to live, because they were alive then they die. Now put it together with this verse:
"whose name HAS NOT BEEN WRITTEN in the book of life from the foundation of the world" Rev 13:8,17:8
You see the phrase "HAS NOT BEEN WRITTEN", that means names were NEVER written in the first place in the book of Life
Please explain?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@apollos6640 "Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves. 32 But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!” 33 The LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." Exodus 33:31-33
You see, The book of the Lord here is referring to everyone in the camp of Israel who fled egypt, wicked and righteous were in the Book of the Lord. Read in context
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 All your pretentious forays into Greek, "perfect passive indicatives", & the rest of your mindless gibberish is irrelevant - Calvinism's false assertion that salvation is by decree is refuted by the fact that names can be removed from the Book of LIfe for disobedience - an act of man's free will. You're willfully blind & deceiving no one here but youself. You're an apostate following the heretical doctrines of demons - & ironically, doing so by your own free will.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe you said: "salvation is by decree is refuted by the fact that names can be removed from the Book of LIfe for disobedience"
According to Jesus:
"For Jesus knew FROM THE BEGINNING who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”" John 6:64-65
Jesus teaching the Doctrine of ELECTION!
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Jesus teaching the Doctrine of ELECTION!"
Jn6:44&65 simply state that no one can or will come to Christ on their own initiative, that the Father must draw them - that doesn't negate the fact that His call can be declined nor that those who do answer it can later be removed from the Book of Life if they fall into unrepentant apostasy - exactly as verses such as Rev3:5 clearly state. ALL men are chosen in Christ & God calls them in His own time - they must then CHOOSE to respond.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe Concerning John 6:44 you said: "that doesn't negate the fact that His call can be declined "
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I WILL raise him up at the last day"
You see, Jesus says "I WILL RAISE HIM UP" this means ANYONE that the Father Draws WILL COMMITT TO JESUS, no matter how much times they reject, they WILL eventually commit to Christ, because God is WORKING ON THEM. God is not a BEGGAR, God is A COMMANDER, He has AUTHORITY!
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "You see, Jesus says "I WILL RAISE HIM UP" this means ANYONE that the Father Draws WILL COMMITT TO JESUS, no matter how much times they reject, they WILL eventually commit to Christ, because God is WORKING ON THEM. God is not a BEGGAR, God is A COMMANDER, He has AUTHORITY!"
1st, tt does NOT say that all who the Father draws will be forced to accept Jesus OR to remain in HIm - you FORCED that into the verse. 2nd, God's authority isn't undermined - rejecters of Christ are judged.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe You said: "1st, tt does NOT say that all who the Father draws will be forced to accept Jesus OR to remain in HIm"
In John 6:44 Jesus said: "I WILL RAISE HIM UP ON THE LAST DAY", means that Jesus will resurrect that person, That can only happen if that person dies physically. This means that person will always remain in Christ.
Also, Jesus did say "I MAY raise him up" OR "I WILL raise him up"?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "This means that person will always remain in Christ"
Nonsense, which has already been refuted several times eg, in Rev3:5 Christ warns the apostate BELIEVERS in Sardis to repent or their names would be REMOVED from the Book of LIfe. The 1st generation of Israelites were all saved but later destroyed when they rebelled - & Paul warns the same will happen to NT believers if guilty of the same offense (1Cor10, Heb3&4). God's promises are ALL conditional - requiring obedience.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe you Said: "Nonsense, which has already been refuted several times eg, in Rev3:5 Christ warns the apostate BELIEVERS in Sardis to repent or their names would be "
But Jesus said:"Yet you have a FEW PEOPLE in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, LIKE THEM, be dressed in white. I WILL NEVER BLOT OUT his name from the book of life,"
"For many are called but a few are Chosen." Matt 22:14
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 You continue to evade the issue - God's promises are CONDITIONAL, which is even clearly expressed in the verses you rip out of context & ADD your false doctrines to! "He who OVERCOMES will be dressed in white" ie, those who don't but instead CHOOSE to continue in their apostasy will have their names REMOVED from the Book of Life. The question here is - did your hypocrisy EVER bother you, was it only after embracing Calvinism that willful deception became a virtue to you?
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe Let's do this again:
"Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. THEY WILL WALK WITH ME, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY. 5He who overcomes will,LIKE THEM, be dressed in white. I WILL NEVER BLOT OUT his name from the book of life"
Jesus said "THEY WILL WALK WITH ME". Jesus is not HOPING for them to walk, but HE KNOWS THEY WILL!
Those heading to destruction NEVER had their names in the Book of Life (REV 13:8,17:8) Let the Bible Speak.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Those heading to destruction NEVER had their names in the Book of Life (REV 13:8,17:8) Let the Bible Speak."
LOL, let's do let the bible speak - CHRIST HIMSELF says in Rev3:5 that the apostate believer's names will BE REMOVED from the book if they refused to repent (concentrate: - they were still written in the book when Christ was speaking!). Only those who hadn't soiled their clothes had any assurance of not having their names blotted out - the rest had to CHOOSE to repent.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe You said: "CHRIST HIMSELF says in Rev3:5 that the apostate believer's names will BE REMOVED from the book if they refused to repent "
Jesus says this "So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you" Rev 3:3
Christ says nothing about erasing names from the book of life, but says he will come like a thief. Why are you lying about the Bible?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Christ says nothing about erasing names from the book of life, but says he will come like a thief. Why are you lying about the Bible?"
A purposeful misquote of the ACTUAL verse I cited which refutes you're unbiblical rubbish - you're apostasy has reached the point of willfully lying because you follow the father of lies & his spirit posseses you. That's where Calvinism's dark, condemned road leads - you promote the doctrines of demons & are inspired by Satan himself.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
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Judgement220 7 months ago
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Judgement220 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe Now to refute names will be blot out of the book of life, in which YOU ADDED to Rev 3:5, hear John in Rev 21:27
"Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or DECEITFUL , but only those whose names are WRITTEN in the Lamb’s book of life"
It didn't say "Whose names are in the Lamb's book of Life" If names were Erased, it doesn't change the fact that they were WRITTEN in the Book. Jesus DOES NOT ERASE NAMES, Sir.
You need to REPENT!
Judgement220 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe Misquote? You said that Jesus will erase names from the book of Life if they don't REPENT when Rev 3:5 doesn't say so. The Group Jesus told to Repent was in Rev 3:3, were the wicked group but Jesus was speaking to another group, The WORTHY GROUP, in Rev 3:4-5. So what you did is that you added Rev 3:4-5 to the Wicked Group, so you were Adding to the Rev 3:5.
So you are adding to the prophesy of Revelations, You need to repent.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe Since you are adding to the book of Revelations:
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book." Rev 22:18
That is not a game you should play sir, adding on to Rev 3:5.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Since you are adding to the book of Revelations:"
Your pathetic ignorance is even demonstrated by your misspellings - it's the book of REVELATION. And Rev3 is VERY clear, names can be added to the Book of LIfe AND they can be removed for apostasy - something that YOU need to heed. You've been practicing every kind of deception & willful blindness here - you're a liar & a filthy apostate. You've been warned & your blood is on your own hands - repent or be destroyed.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe You are certainly not someone who Fears the Lord or Respect the Word of the Lord. How can you have the audacity to add to the word of the Lord in Rev 3:5?
You misreprested the Lord Jesus Christ by saying that he will erase names when he CLEARLY didn't say that.
Where is your Respect for the Lord Jesus Christ? Do you even have His Spirit?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 Rev3:5 CLEARLY says that only the faithful of Sardis won't have their names removed, the apostates WILL be removed if they refuse to repent. If names can never be removed from the Book, why did Christ mention it? Was it an empty threat? Your problem is that you follow the doctrines of demons created from collusion between an unrepentant murderer (John Calvin) & Satan - that's why you exhibit their same character. You're a willfuly blind liar & apostate who refuses the truth.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe concerning Rev 3:5 you said this: "the apostates WILL be removed if they refuse to repent"
You need a comprehension lesson: " ..He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. " Rev 3:1
You see, these guys are dead. Jesus NEVER said they were alive, Jesus NEVER said their names were in the Book of Life, you do said so with no proof. Now tell me:
Do you have the Spirit of the LORD?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 The one needing lessons in elementary comprehension is you - ALL the letters are written to BELIEVERS to guide them back into the truth from which many of them strayed. You need to apply those warnings to YOURSELF because you're an apostate who will have your own name removed if you don't repent. You're following the doctrines of demons & you're now VERY close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit - if you step over that line you can NEVER return. You've been warned.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe You said: "ALL the letters are written to BELIEVERS to guide them back into the truth from which many of them strayed"
Jesus said these People ARE DEAD in Rev 3:1. ****NewsFlash****
Dead people don't belong to Christ
Dead people are PRETENDERS, NOT BELIEVERS. Dead people don't stray, Dead people cannot satisfy God because they DON'T BELONG TO GOD!
Now tell me what kind of "spirit" you have, because the Holy Spirit is not going to say otherwise what Christ has SAID!
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 More willful blindness & prooftexting. He says in verse 2 "strengthen & invigorate what remains & is on the point of dying;" NEWSFLASH - they were once alive but their apostasy is killing them just as your willful apostasy has almost totally killed you. Unless you repent NOW, your name will also be removed from the Book of Life. You stand at the very door of death - take ONE more step & you will be destroyed for blaspheming the Holy Spirit who is clearly warning you.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe Your misquote of Scripture: "strengthen & invigorate what remains & is on the point of dying"
"Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your DEEDS completed in the sight of My God." Rev 3:2
The "things that remain" are church's works. The reason the DEEDS are not completed in God's sight because the DEEDS are done by DEAD PEOPLE. The DEEDS are becoming worthless because they are not GOD CENTERED.
Do you have the Spirit?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "Do you have the Spirit?"
I do indeed have the Holy Spirit & you speak by a filthy, lying demon who possesses your soul & motivates you to preach a false gospel, to put false words into God's mouth, to blaspheme His character, & to lead others into the same destruction that awaits you. You're a condemned son of Satan himself - a reprobate with nothing to look forward to but the Lake of Fire. Clear enough?
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe "I do indeed have the Holy Spirit & you speak by a filthy, lying demon who possesses your soul & motivates you to preach a false gospel, to put false words into God's mouth, to blaspheme His character"
You have a "spirit" alright and it doesn't belong to Christ, because Christ's own will never make up scripture without any regard like you. I will pray to the Lord that you will WAKE UP, IF its in his Will. Hopefully you are not the lump of clay that is destined for destruction.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220 "You have a "spirit" alright and it doesn't belong to Christ because Christ's own will never make up scripture"
You're condemned by your own filthy mouth for it's YOU that's been "making up scripture" - putting false words into Christ's mouth, preaching a false gospel, blaspheming God's character by accusing Him of creating helpless people just to cast them into hell, & for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - which you can NEVER be forgiven of. You're under an eternal curse.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
@JackMWolfe Jesus says that satan is the father of lies. And you lied about scripture by REWORDING Rev 3:5, You REWORD the WORDS of THE LORD!
I bet you don't believe this scripture:
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and THEY WILL NEVER PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" John 10:27-28
I bet you don't believe because you say Jesus "Blots out Names in the book of Life" when Jesus CLEARLY didn't say that in Rev 3:5.
Judgement220 7 months ago
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@Judgement220 "I bet you don't believe this "My sheep hear My voice, & I know them, & they follow Me; & I give eternal life to them, & THEY WILL NEVER PERISH; & no one will snatch them out of My hand"
Yes I do - it just doesn't apply to you. When your profession of faith was tested you chose to follow ANOTHER voice that promotes a false gospel, blasphemes God's character, casts His word to the ground, & blasphemes the Holy Spirit - a FALSE shepherd who's now destroyed you with no remedy.
JackMWolfe 7 months ago
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@JackMWolfe "“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."
I asked you do you believe this scripture: You said:"Yes I do"
No you don't--You believe a person can lose Eternal life. How can this testament of Jesus be true if one can lose their salvation?
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220... LOL I don't believe what you believe, NOR do I agree w/ Jack that people are born Sinners. From what I've read, EVERYONES names is written in the book of life from the foundations of the world, these names are blotted out if Sin is the ultimate Status & endgame of the individual at the Judgment seat of Christ-- if they never received Gods gift of Salvation-- there's nothing scary about it. Why don't you acknowledge those verses I've mentioned? Scary isn't it?
apollos6640 8 months ago
@apollos6640 "..He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life..." Rev 3:5
"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life" Rev 13:8
Put these verses together:
1) People Destined for destruction, NEVER had their names written in the BOOK of LIFE.-NO ERASING REQUIRED
2)Each INDIVIDUAL were PREDESTINED FROM the foundation of the World.
Judgement220 7 months ago
@Judgement220.. "When were the names written in the Book of Life?", uhhh OK. Here's a MORE powerful question, "Can man Fall Away from the Faith, and does Jesus have the authority and power to ERASE someones name from the Book of Life?" The Biblical answer is YES to both. You have Paul stating it in 2 Thess.3:2, the Apostasy-- the Falling away. Branches being cut-off if they DON'T continue in Rom.11:22. Branches IN CHRIST not bearing Fruit in Jn.15:2 & names being ERASED in Rev.3:5. Get Real!
apollos6640 8 months ago
@apollos6640 Excuse me, you clearly did not answer the question. Tell me when were the names written in the Book of Life? You seem VERY scared to answer that question. The TRUTH is scary, isn't it?
Judgement220 8 months ago
"Such a God is not an all loving is not WORTHY of all OUR LOVE" " A God who doesn't try to save the other two is not an all loving God" Dr Geisler (1:20 to 2:45)
Paul says:
"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, " Rom 9:22-23
Dr. Geisler seems to love man more then God.
Judgement220 8 months ago
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For all those who reject calvinism are fools, you need to read for yourselves, T.U.L.I.P of Calvinism, this is the truth. Nothing in the scriptures can refute calvinism.
T- Jos 24:22, Romans 1:19-20
U- 2, Sam 15:23, 35, Romans 10;1-4
L- Romans 5:18, Hebrews 2:9
I- Romans 11:7-11, John 5:40
P- 2 Peter 2:1, 10:26-29,39
Natester27 8 months ago
Rape is not love. Forced SEX is rape. "forced love" isn't forced at all. It's just the fact of someone loving you whether you love them back or not.
alnewberry 9 months ago
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@alnewberry " "forced love" isn't forced at all. It's just the fact of someone loving you whether you love them back or not."
God's expression of love in the bible is "If I be lifted up I will DRAW all men unto Me" & "Behold, I stand at the door & KNOCK; if anyone heeds My voice & opens the door, I will come in to him..." Calvinism's version is "I will drag all those I've selected to Myself whether they like it or not" and "I'll huff & puff & blow your door down" Calvinism is pure heresy.
JackMWolfe 9 months ago
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@JackMWolfe You said: "Calvinism's version is "I will drag all those I've selected to Myself whether they like it or not"
Because you quoted:
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if ANY MAN HEAR MY VOICE, and open the door, I will come in to him,"
Now tell me, Did YOU MAKE YOURSELF OPEN THE DOOR OR DID THE GOSPEL MAKE YOU OPEN THE DOOR?
Judgement220 8 months ago
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@Judgement220 "Now tell me, Did YOU MAKE YOURSELF OPEN THE DOOR OR DID THE GOSPEL MAKE YOU OPEN THE DOOR?"
Tell me, do you think your question was decreed by God or did you compose & post it of your own free will? If it was decreed - did God choose each phrase & keystroke for you & make you type it out exactly?
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe You asked: "Tell me, do you think your question was decreed by God or did you compose & post it of your own free will"
God Decreed me to search for the Truth, but it is my free will how I post it.
Now answer my question: Did the You make yourself OPEN the Door or did the Gospel Make you open the DOOR?
Judgement220 8 months ago
@Judgement "God Decreed me to search for the Truth, but it is my free will how I post it."
But wasn't it also your free will to either obey or refuse to obey God's decree to search for the Truth? And did God force you to post a question based on your search - wasn't that of your own free will?
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe "But wasn't it also your free will to either obey or refuse to boey God's Decree"
Absolutely its my free will to obey or refuse God's decree, as a matter of fact, I refused many times before, but God kept on setting up roadblocks in my life to FORCE me to seek the truth.
"Did God force you to post a question"--No, It's based on my FREE WILL to do so.
Now tell me: DID you make yourself open the Door to the Lord, or did the Gospel make you open the Door? - Please enlighten me.
Judgement220 8 months ago