you know how america is kinda absolutistic. either you are this or that, and this thinking is embedded in stories, morals, teachings and habits. not so easy to shrug off.
They have successfully divided us over the last 50 years, through race and color, politics etc. And now there goal is to divide us with Latin Americans!? WTF are we doing to ourselves people!? STOP this madness before god loses faith in all men! Stop hating everyone, stop being so fucking divided. That's RIGHT where they want us. When its one big ass loop of all the same. The same people have had control of this country for atleast the last 70 years. JFK was gonna stop it, so... he is dead.
We have to STOP separating ourselves with stupid Democrat and Republican labels! ENOUGH! Make it ILLEGAL to run as a party... RUN AS YOUR FUCKING SELF YOU DUMB POLITICIANS! You can't sum America up by 1 label, either Conservative or Liberal... Dur dee fucking dur dur! We are so STUPID. We create this enviroment OURSELVES to allow them to do this to us. STOP voting for someone because they are either Liberal or Conservative, and START voting for people that represent YOU! Not your party.
Capitalists do buy anything that's buyable. But at a price that makes the buy profitable. Or at least that's the goal. When you take the risk of loss away or try and artificially inflate the price through government monetary policy, you no longer have capitalism. Sorry but all you definitions of capitalism just don't work in todays environment. It can't exist. You can't blame capitalism for the problems we see today.
There can be no such monopoly without government intervention. Without governmental police powers of the state, there will always be a competitor, however small that competition might be. Strange that you seem to believe that you can't have absolute free markets or absolute Socialism but suck down the idea of absolute monopoly. The only entity that can create a monopoly is the government.
But it does not occur to you that it is the narrowness of your panorama and the ideological blinders you wear that explains it, not that if you don't recall it, it does not exist.
It's a pity--you don't seem naturally dumb or I would not bother to reply to you, however stupid some of your remarks.
Actually I was trying to bait you. My point was for you to then tell me what monopoly did happen without government intervention. Now since you avopid the answer, I then must be right.
Are you saying that's the last time a monopoly formed in a free market or we haven't had a free market since then? We are trying to prevent, with big government programs, something that hasn't happened in over 1,600 years? You have to do better than that.
Of course I am not saying that--the curiales have nothing to do with monopolies and competition. It was a change of subject, dear boy. Did you think I was going to fall for your bait.
Yeah that was true when business did not have turn overs bigger than some first world countries GDPs. Or when a company was no so big they could cross subsidise a single operation until all the competition is dead.
If you think all monopolies are government made try and launch your own games console and see how far you get>
Your economic analysis went out of date just before WW2.
"...China believes that the main problem is not the weakness of the yuan but the weakness of the dollar. The feeling here is, 'Why should we be the scapegoat for your dollar problems?"
Sun Zhe
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Obama talks about reevaluating the yuan and the Chinese stare into space silently.
They own the US and Wall Street--you think they are just going to cancel all the US debt by letting their currency go into free wall?
The US is headed for a collapse. But only because The US continues to spend into massive deficits that can't possibly be repaid.
Non Profit Federal Health insurance? That will do nothing but put in a price floor for all insurance and push prices up from there. Wage and price controls never work.
Nationalize oil? You can bet the big oil companies would love that, since they have huge influence in government now. Your idiotic solutions will only serve the very people you're trying to hurt.
Now I know you're an idiot. Every big government pushing, bailout and regulation advocate politician is a socialist. Or they at least work for one. Socialism, Fascism, Marxism, or any other big government wanna be is the same thing. There is no difference in the end result. Big central government controling everything. The real problem is trying to find a true capitalist in big business. Capitalists don't want any government intervention, nevermind bailouts.
The supposed biggest capitalist families in the country, The Rockefellers and The Morgens, were for every big government socialist program pushed through. There is no question They had huge influence over government politicians. Right now Sen Jay Rockefeller is the one pushing the hardest for a government takover of healthcare. Why would the biggest capitalists push so hard for social programs? the ansewer is simple for anyone with a brain.
Wow now that's a new tactic. Never thought that one up before. Take a true statement, stretch the truth to absurdity and then debunk the statement. I didn't say ALL the elite families are socialists. Just the ones that seek to buy great influence in government, and then use that influence to rewrite legislation that benefits themselves while hampering their competition. By the way, thats the true definition of Socialism. Abusing governmental police powers to eliminate competitors. Not Capitalism
Again you miss the point. All elite is not socialist. But most elite have one thing in common. Most are elite by inheritance. Generations of rich looking to keep and consolidate there status and power. 100's of years ago, it was done under monarchy, by todays standards, socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. Inter family marriage to secure and pass on wealth. The only difference today is that we can now keep track and control everyones lives. Much more socialistic and dictorial.
You are suffering from cognitive dissonance, mickeyyears.
You see that something is wrong, seriously and systematically, but you retreat into your nostalgic emotional emblems and refuse to face what got the US from point X to point Y, which was exactly Capitalism followed by Finance Capitalism.
You probably also have a very romantic, completely jingo view of American history, as does Paul and even this cenk here.
I don't grasp the collapse of the dollar? I'm in Yen and Euro positions against the dollar. Wish I was in The Pound. Too late. The US is still the world reserve currency, although I don't know for how much longer. And it is why China doesn't own Wall Street but is in a bad position right now as The Dollar still drops.
You have now reached the point where your various ill-phrased and ill-thought ideas are in conflict with one another, mickeysears.
You can either do some serious thinking and reading and clear your thinking or just keep blundering on with the senseless emotional emblems you were fed when you were younger.
The "Communist Manifesto" is the least important of Marx's works.
Not at all. Your comprehension is just as limited as your ideolgy. The one thing that will get The US out of this mess is to reduce the size and scope of Federal Government. Cut spending and lower taxes. Put the money into the pockets of the people and let capitalism reign. Reduce regulations and stop trying to police the world.
(1) you don't know what my ideology is, or even if I have one.
(2) the Finance Capitalists are not going to give up what they think is their power willingly, and your program will just make things worse, as it already has done since Reagan. Plus it is phrased rather stupidly--"put money into the pockets of the people and let capitalism reign", HAHAHAHA.
As if taxes were the problem.
Kucinich's non-profit Health Insurance would do exactly hat--pout money in the pockets of the people.
See, I told you your comprehension sucks. Nothing of the sort was done with Reagen. Taxes were cut but not spending. Since then taxes were raised and then reduced again but spending was never cut. That just put us into a bigger debt position that had to be financed. this was not the trickle down theory it was cracked up to be. And you just trickled all over yourself.
Reagen privatization was just another way of picking and choosing winners and losers. What companies had the inroads and political connections to get favored deals. That has nothing to do with Capitalism and is just an extention of anti-free market socialism.
"Economically, the main thing in this process is the displacement of capitalist free competition by capitalist monopoly. Free competition is the basic feature of capitalism, and of commodity production generally; monopoly is the exact opposite of free competition, but we have seen the latter being transformed into monopoly before our eyes, creating large-scale industry and forcing out small industry...
""...replacing large-scale by still larger-scale industry, and carrying concentration of production and capital to the point where out of it has grown and is growing monopoly: cartels, syndicates and trusts, and merging with them, the capital of a dozen or so banks, which manipulate thousands of millions."
I have said that to so many American nuts who think their education is down to earth but they can't see it sits on a huge wide topped mountain of McCaytian coldwar fear and nonsense that is made too look like sea level with fake reasons for Americas <1970 relative prosperity.
I had one yank attempt to call me a fool in another thread because I disagreed that socialism meant "the government telling you what to do"
Gulags in Alaska would accomplish more than you might think, mickeysears, granting that someone like Obama had the brains of a Stalin, which he doesn't.
Stalin was brutal but not dumb.
The US has to be conceived as a economic unit--as a whole..
In a previous comment, you complimented Mao. Now you're giving credit to Stalin and wanting to put The US as an "economic unit--as a whole".
IT people like you that have put the world in the shape it's in. Big government, share the wealth, work and worship for the state losers that have killed more humans in the last 100 years than in a 1,000 years before it. If you only knew how ignorant you sound, there might be some hope for you. Sadly No!
Although a band of criminals, I suppose the Shanghai Green Gang did not have problems with the justice of police department. They even became big friends with general Chiang Kai Shek who was the head of the government at that time.
too much honour mops, I just informed myself on internet, you are the real erudite !
And yes, the maffia has a code of honour. after napoleons invasion of italy he forgot sicily. So in shortest of times anarchy ruled of there and landlords recruited out of the "giovanni d'onore", youth of honour, which as a kind of substitute police received "protection money" (sounds familiar) ? They soon became aware they did not depend on the landlords but that it was the other way around ....
Obama caves in to wall street just as McCain would have, or Romney, or Huckabee, or Clinton ( both Bill and Hillary), Or Bush ( both father and son), or any of the other top candidates and presidential predecesors in the last 100 years. Nothing new here.
It's a common belief but totally not true. Although China holds about $5 Trillion in government debt, they certainly don't own Wall Street. Actually the big wall street banks own China. They financed China for the last 60 years. ExxonMobil got huge drilling rights when China discovered their biggest oil reserve and JP Morgen Chase was the first international bank allowed to operate in China and The Soviet Umion. Both central banks work closely with The Fed behind closed door sessions. HE 1207
We get right down to it and the name calling comes out. No facts, no rebuttles that make any sense, no facts that mean anything, just names. You think you know but know nothing. Go ahead and run little boy. You are who I thought you are.
The US president's Asia trip...is designed to shore up US power in a region increasingly dominated by rising giant China.
But back home, Obama's bow in Japan seems to have grabbed much of the attention...
"The gesture appears to have touched a particularly raw nerve among Obama critics who said the president has hastened America's decline as a world superpower..."
AFP
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Wall Street owns China, and Japan, and Saudi Arabia--mickeysears--HAHAHAHAHAHA.
There is no secret that whomever pays the bills, calls the tune.
China has been financed by US business for over 60 years. China has enjoyed most favored nation status and our trade deficits just keep getting bigger. IF it wasn't for the US, China would have collapsed by now under the wieght of it's own government. The Chinese Communists control there own economy and eliminated every competitor. A perfect environment for socialists big bankers looking for a place to control.
Come on Cenk, be a realist. Obama was hesitant about taking on Healthcare, do you really think he's even going to raise a finger against the exponentially stronger bank industry?
Except for a few major banks and financials the banks are rather weak right now, many being gobbled up by bigger banks.
Whether that means down the line is a complex question.
Incidentally, using "industry" for banks is like using it for for profit Health Insurers. It gives the impression, even if subconsciously, that they actually "produce" something.
Actually climate change is the greatest problem facing the Nation and the world. We can't deal with any other issues if we can't grow food or...breathe! But aside from that I have to agree with Cenk. Obama's loyalty to his corporate masters with sink him and the country.
chris dodd's proposal is SOCIALISM if we want to truley reform the economy let the free market regulate itself, under bush we had 8 years of solid economic development despite multiple wars, and within 1 year of liberal over regulation and socialism the economy has crashed again, and TYT is nothing but a mouthpiece of obama, besides this TYT has NEVER attacked obama or portrayed him in a bad light. and you people think fox is biased, look at yourselves
The more interesting question at the moment is that of "market"--which is very ancient.
Have you noticed, envanje, that "Chinese economist" is now a much more subtly disturbing phrasing to the Financial Capitalists than the old "Chinese Communist", even though the country is still Communist.
Don't know Angela Davis though Betty Davis was one of my favorite moviestars. Moment, gonna have a short look on internet about the whereabouts of Angela.
He makes obama look bad all the time for no pushing healthcare through like he promised and not being tough against Democrates... Tell you the truth, many of his supporters think that he is full of hot air....
As for regulating the economy, capitalism has the tendancy to suck money from the lower class, therefore we MUST adjust taxes and other things accordingly.... The system is not fair, nor is it perfect...
The libertarian agenda only cares about abolishing taxes... crazy ass holes.
Seriously, just stop. Do you really think that you can make such asinine statements and expect to be taken the least bit seriously?
Dodd's proposal is a slightly less corrupt form of the ultra-corrupt dictatorship of finance capital, which we all currently live under.
The economy was not fine during the regime of Mad Dog Bush the Younger, nor has it been for decades. However, seeing as how you're not interested in anything but mindless "free-market" sloganeering, I'll leave it at that.
You almost, almost had me take you seriously. Btw, is SOCIALISM worse than socialism? Is that a new breed of zombie socialism like 28-days later?
If I described an apple as RED instead of red, does that mean we should be innately afraid of it?
Oh, and you may wanna rethink your comment on "8 years of solid economic development". I'm not sure if you consider negative growth as development, but that doesn't really fly with most people.
It is funny because you people, you leftist morons who watched young turks are the damn people who voted for Obama. You didn't leave it at that, you bought Obama shirts, you praised his name and spread his word. YOu people gave a naive do-nothing, fiscally irresponsible celebrity in charge and now you have the nerve to whinge about it..
I'm not american, so I didn't vote for him. If you could only watch this from the eyes of an objective observer. He's basically trying to get the US on par with the rest of the world, but you guys seem deadset on staying in the middle ages on both political and social issues.
Pres. O: I am privileged to have addressed you, the people of China. Thank you. Are there any questions. Yes, you...
Dr. U: Mr. President, I am a Chinese economist, and I had an opportunity to hear Mr. Geithner when he visited. My question is--why did you send him to China?
Pres. O: To explain American financial policy to the people of China.
Dr. U: Ah so, now I understand--slapstick! I have seen the same low comedy in some of your old American movies too, like Mr. Jerry Lewis, right?
Oh my gosh, Cenk is actually discussing real issues. But let explain why is this still BS. The only reason Chris Dodd proposed this legislation is because he is threatened by Peter Schiff. Peter Schiff just like Ron Paul represents real reform. The bankers are terrified of true reformers like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff. The Fed and Wall-Steeters arent worried about Chris Dodd, Chris Dodd is worried about himself.
"The latest internal government estimates place the cost of adding 40,000 American troops and sharply expanding the Afghan security forces, as favored by Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the top American and allied commander in Afghanistan, at $40 billion to $54 billion a year, the officials said. "
you know how america is kinda absolutistic. either you are this or that, and this thinking is embedded in stories, morals, teachings and habits. not so easy to shrug off.
gatskillz 1 year ago
The title is misleading.
Obama doesn't "cave in" to Wall Street.
That would falsely suggest some degree of prior resistance and/or reluctance.
Obama belongs to Wall Street.
They put him in Office.
Txsray 1 year ago
They have successfully divided us over the last 50 years, through race and color, politics etc. And now there goal is to divide us with Latin Americans!? WTF are we doing to ourselves people!? STOP this madness before god loses faith in all men! Stop hating everyone, stop being so fucking divided. That's RIGHT where they want us. When its one big ass loop of all the same. The same people have had control of this country for atleast the last 70 years. JFK was gonna stop it, so... he is dead.
Zickefoose 1 year ago
We have to STOP separating ourselves with stupid Democrat and Republican labels! ENOUGH! Make it ILLEGAL to run as a party... RUN AS YOUR FUCKING SELF YOU DUMB POLITICIANS! You can't sum America up by 1 label, either Conservative or Liberal... Dur dee fucking dur dur! We are so STUPID. We create this enviroment OURSELVES to allow them to do this to us. STOP voting for someone because they are either Liberal or Conservative, and START voting for people that represent YOU! Not your party.
Zickefoose 1 year ago
O was Big Finances top recipient in 08 to the tune of $40 million. Might explain
why 9 months later there has been virtually nothing done to reign in Wall St's excesses.
RomeoMD25 2 years ago
chris dodd is part of wall street lol remember whenhe wastelling us alldis bankswere stable and now u hes changed all of a sudden. lol
aadejumo 2 years ago
Capitalists always buy any state that is buyable,
Why wouldn't they?
Englightened self-interest? HAHAHAHA.
That is one of the central flaws in all your "free market idealism".
And also the flaw in every Austrian.
mopsius 2 years ago
Capitalists do buy anything that's buyable. But at a price that makes the buy profitable. Or at least that's the goal. When you take the risk of loss away or try and artificially inflate the price through government monetary policy, you no longer have capitalism. Sorry but all you definitions of capitalism just don't work in todays environment. It can't exist. You can't blame capitalism for the problems we see today.
mickeysears 2 years ago
An eminently buyable state is a very profitable acquisition to Finance Capitalists on the way to monopoly.
mopsius 2 years ago
There can be no such monopoly without government intervention. Without governmental police powers of the state, there will always be a competitor, however small that competition might be. Strange that you seem to believe that you can't have absolute free markets or absolute Socialism but suck down the idea of absolute monopoly. The only entity that can create a monopoly is the government.
mickeysears 2 years ago
No, what you say about monopoly and competition is complete garbage.
You are completely ignorant of economic history.
You also have no idea how to define "state", which is modern coinage.
mopsius 2 years ago
The Austrians are not reliable--very Tedescan in what they pretended to know, but most of it was strictly modern.
Marx had a similar failing, for all the usefulness of his analysis of "Capitalism", which was in some sense both his invention and discovery.
That is one of the reasons he was completely at sea in regard to Japan.
mopsius 2 years ago
I can't recall any instance where a monopoly happened without government intervention. So I guess I am ignorant.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Yes, I know you can't.
But it does not occur to you that it is the narrowness of your panorama and the ideological blinders you wear that explains it, not that if you don't recall it, it does not exist.
It's a pity--you don't seem naturally dumb or I would not bother to reply to you, however stupid some of your remarks.
mopsius 2 years ago
Actually I was trying to bait you. My point was for you to then tell me what monopoly did happen without government intervention. Now since you avopid the answer, I then must be right.
mickeysears 2 years ago
But I knew you were trying to bait me.
What's in for me to tell you?
To win a debate on youtube?
You are playing schoolyard games and you are way over your head.
Know anything about the curiales in the Fourth Century AD.
Very pertinent to the present context as the states and municipalities go bankrupt.
mopsius 2 years ago
Fourth Century AD?
Are you saying that's the last time a monopoly formed in a free market or we haven't had a free market since then? We are trying to prevent, with big government programs, something that hasn't happened in over 1,600 years? You have to do better than that.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Of course I am not saying that--the curiales have nothing to do with monopolies and competition. It was a change of subject, dear boy. Did you think I was going to fall for your bait.
But again you show your ignorance.
And the first known state price controls were?
mopsius 2 years ago
Poor Nixon, like Obama, he was completely and utterly ignorant of economics beyond his ideology.
mopsius 2 years ago
Anyway enough amusement for today.
Try to act intelligent.
And don't hurt your head with all these seemingly discursive questions.
Bon appetit, mon enfant.
PS: if it is any consolation, cenk appears to be at least as ignorant as you.
mopsius 2 years ago
Yeah that was true when business did not have turn overs bigger than some first world countries GDPs. Or when a company was no so big they could cross subsidise a single operation until all the competition is dead.
If you think all monopolies are government made try and launch your own games console and see how far you get>
Your economic analysis went out of date just before WW2.
CmdrTobs 2 years ago
"Capitalism" is one of your holy invocations, mickeysears.
You are an idealist at bottom.
mopsius 2 years ago
The for profit Health Insurers trillions of the real economy.
They produce nothing.
They sell vaporware.
Are they going to export their for profit Health Insurance to China, HAHAHA.
mopsius 2 years ago
One third of all premiums paid to the for profit Health Insurers goes to executive salaries and advertising.
That alone is $700 billion a year.
But that is just scratching the surface.
mopsius 2 years ago
corr: The for profit Health Insurers skim trillions off the economy.
mopsius 2 years ago
Debt credit creates nothing.
It is parasitic by nature.
That does not mean it does not have its uses.
It means that it is ultimately derivative.
The Finance Capitalists always kill their host, including the industrial capitalists.
Among other things they begin to believe they are the producers.
mopsius 2 years ago
In both the Soviet Union and mainland China Marxism was a tool to industrialize.
mopsius 2 years ago
The Chinese economists are now light years beyond the morons in the US-with one or two exceptions.
mopsius 2 years ago
There is a point at which stupidity becomes criminal.
The country and most of the left and right reached that point under Bush and Cheney, though it took forty years to get there.
Obama right now looks like Bush Lite, which will also be disaster.
Radical restructuring is necessary just to get to the point of being able to move on to something else.
Not interested--I don't really give a shit.
mopsius 2 years ago
I have worked in more different aspects of the US economy, high and low, than you are even aware exist, mickeysears.
mopsius 2 years ago
Yaay, Rachel Maddow shout-out! She's the best out there (after TYT of course).
MaverickToro 2 years ago
Sun Zhe
"...China believes that the main problem is not the weakness of the yuan but the weakness of the dollar. The feeling here is, 'Why should we be the scapegoat for your dollar problems?"
Sun Zhe
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Obama talks about reevaluating the yuan and the Chinese stare into space silently.
They own the US and Wall Street--you think they are just going to cancel all the US debt by letting their currency go into free wall?
mopsius 2 years ago
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Nationalize US oil.
Institute Federal non-profit National Health Insurance.
Nationalize the Federal Reserve.
Prosecute Bush and Cheney as war criminals.
Declare a national emergency and send the Right Wing to a gulag in Alaska.
Then the US may have chance at surviving throught he 21 Century.
mopsius 2 years ago
Get out of Iraq and Afganistan?
This is the only thing you're right on.
The rest, you sound like an idiot.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Fuck off, mickeyyears--the only thing you are right on is that I am right on Afghanistan and Iraq.
In fact I predicted this mess in Iraq even before Bush's American Suburbanites invaded Mesopotamia.
You are obviously some moronic variety of Paulist.
mopsius 2 years ago
A moronic variety of a Paulist?
Are you saying that there are non moronic varieties?
mickeysears 2 years ago
The Paulists are all morons economically--concealed Social Darwinists and Classic British Liberals.
A good many of them are outright racists and Nativists as well, as Paul himself is.
mopsius 2 years ago
I also predicted the economic collapse month by month from April 2005.
And that was tied directly to Iraq, among many other things.
Take your John Locke and Adam Smith and Austrian School and shove them up your ass.
You have no fucking idea how bad things are economically, nor apparently does Cenk or the Fascist Democrats.
And the Right Wing are outright lunatics.
mopsius 2 years ago
And your answer to all this is more government?
Another economic wizard.
mickeysears 2 years ago
The US is on the verge of total collapse and chaos.
Insofar as there is a geographical or political unit that is the US certain things have to be done systematically even to give a chance of recovery.
Kucincih's non-profit Federal Health Insurance will actually help the economy and exports.
Oil has to be nationalized and disattached from USD.
You are the ideologue--totally ignorant of economics and economic mechanics.
Those measures are just a start.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US is headed for a collapse. But only because The US continues to spend into massive deficits that can't possibly be repaid.
Non Profit Federal Health insurance? That will do nothing but put in a price floor for all insurance and push prices up from there. Wage and price controls never work.
Nationalize oil? You can bet the big oil companies would love that, since they have huge influence in government now. Your idiotic solutions will only serve the very people you're trying to hurt.
mickeysears 2 years ago
That;s where your short-sighted Right Wing ideology blinds you, mickeyyears.
The US is now int he Fiance Capitalist Monoloy stage.
Debt crditi is the problem as the whole system--not the Federal deficits, which are only the symptom of bullship palliation.
Moreover the real economy is what is fucked up, and it was fucked up by the Finance Capitalists.
mopsius 2 years ago
Finance Capital Monopoly stage.
mopsius 2 years ago
Wrong again loser.
The economy was fucked up by financial socialists that use government to push an agenda.
See this is why you show yourself to be ignorant. You don'y even know what group you're against.
mickeysears 2 years ago
You are a blithering moron, mickeyears. There are no Socialists in the US, with one or two exceptions.
The Democrats are mostly Corporatist Fascists and Imperialists.
You should look at the total debt of record some time--that was not the government.
Incidentally I predicted the collapse while in banking.
You are an illiterate ideologue, HAHAHAHA.
Too fucking stupid to be amusing.
Bon appetit, mon enfant.
mopsius 2 years ago
You are a "true believer", mickeysears, in other words the ideal patsy.
mopsius 2 years ago
There are no Socialists in The US?
Now I know you're an idiot. Every big government pushing, bailout and regulation advocate politician is a socialist. Or they at least work for one. Socialism, Fascism, Marxism, or any other big government wanna be is the same thing. There is no difference in the end result. Big central government controling everything. The real problem is trying to find a true capitalist in big business. Capitalists don't want any government intervention, nevermind bailouts.
mickeysears 2 years ago
The supposed biggest capitalist families in the country, The Rockefellers and The Morgens, were for every big government socialist program pushed through. There is no question They had huge influence over government politicians. Right now Sen Jay Rockefeller is the one pushing the hardest for a government takover of healthcare. Why would the biggest capitalists push so hard for social programs? the ansewer is simple for anyone with a brain.
And you still sound like an idiot.
mickeysears 2 years ago
mickeysears, you repeat simple-minded emblems without any understanding whatsover.
Yes, indeed, Rockefeller and the Morgans--"Socialists!"
I could not have thought that one up in a hundred years.
Thanks.
You are either a Randian or a Born Again or, like Paul, both.
mopsius 2 years ago
All the elite capitalist families are--ready folks--Socialists!
HAHAHAHAHA.
mopsius 2 years ago
Wow now that's a new tactic. Never thought that one up before. Take a true statement, stretch the truth to absurdity and then debunk the statement. I didn't say ALL the elite families are socialists. Just the ones that seek to buy great influence in government, and then use that influence to rewrite legislation that benefits themselves while hampering their competition. By the way, thats the true definition of Socialism. Abusing governmental police powers to eliminate competitors. Not Capitalism
mickeysears 2 years ago
I suggest you read Lenin on Bernstein.
He was way a head of you insofar as you make any sense at all.
But the elite are not "Socialist".
In fact you might read Lenin on Finance Capitalism and Imperialism--you might learn something.
mopsius 2 years ago
Again you miss the point. All elite is not socialist. But most elite have one thing in common. Most are elite by inheritance. Generations of rich looking to keep and consolidate there status and power. 100's of years ago, it was done under monarchy, by todays standards, socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. Inter family marriage to secure and pass on wealth. The only difference today is that we can now keep track and control everyones lives. Much more socialistic and dictorial.
mickeysears 2 years ago
The US is a predatory Capitalist warfare state.
The US is Communism for the rich, Capitlaism for the poor.
The US is from each according to need, to each according to excess.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US hasn't been capitalist in the last 100 years.
mickeysears 2 years ago
There is a distinction Lenin makes between Industrial Capitalist and Finance Capitalist.
The US is now Finance Capitalist, thus on the verge of chaos and collapse.
Incidentally, if you watch closely, the film "There Will Be Blood" has the distinction as a subtle background theme.
mopsius 2 years ago
With all this government spending, there is nothing capitalist about The US. This is where your arguement falls flat.
mickeysears 2 years ago
You are suffering from cognitive dissonance, mickeyyears.
You see that something is wrong, seriously and systematically, but you retreat into your nostalgic emotional emblems and refuse to face what got the US from point X to point Y, which was exactly Capitalism followed by Finance Capitalism.
You probably also have a very romantic, completely jingo view of American history, as does Paul and even this cenk here.
mopsius 2 years ago
You also don't grasp what I say when I say that USD has collapsed and is no longer the world reserve currency, or what that means economically.
mopsius 2 years ago
I don't grasp the collapse of the dollar? I'm in Yen and Euro positions against the dollar. Wish I was in The Pound. Too late. The US is still the world reserve currency, although I don't know for how much longer. And it is why China doesn't own Wall Street but is in a bad position right now as The Dollar still drops.
mickeysears 2 years ago
No, USD is no longer the world reserve currency.
That shows the real limits of your understanding.
I can even predict the "facts" you would bring forth to argue that it is.
But they are irrelevant.
You are thinking just like Greenspan.
mopsius 2 years ago
You have now reached the point where your various ill-phrased and ill-thought ideas are in conflict with one another, mickeysears.
You can either do some serious thinking and reading and clear your thinking or just keep blundering on with the senseless emotional emblems you were fed when you were younger.
The "Communist Manifesto" is the least important of Marx's works.
It is just political sloganeering.
mopsius 2 years ago
Not at all. Your comprehension is just as limited as your ideolgy. The one thing that will get The US out of this mess is to reduce the size and scope of Federal Government. Cut spending and lower taxes. Put the money into the pockets of the people and let capitalism reign. Reduce regulations and stop trying to police the world.
mickeysears 2 years ago
(1) you don't know what my ideology is, or even if I have one.
(2) the Finance Capitalists are not going to give up what they think is their power willingly, and your program will just make things worse, as it already has done since Reagan. Plus it is phrased rather stupidly--"put money into the pockets of the people and let capitalism reign", HAHAHAHA.
As if taxes were the problem.
Kucinich's non-profit Health Insurance would do exactly hat--pout money in the pockets of the people.
mopsius 2 years ago
See, I told you your comprehension sucks. Nothing of the sort was done with Reagen. Taxes were cut but not spending. Since then taxes were raised and then reduced again but spending was never cut. That just put us into a bigger debt position that had to be financed. this was not the trickle down theory it was cracked up to be. And you just trickled all over yourself.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Yes, you are right--Reagan did not cut spending.
I was referring to privatization.
His worst legacy was getting the Born Again lunatics into national politics as a conscious block.
mopsius 2 years ago
Reagen privatization was just another way of picking and choosing winners and losers. What companies had the inroads and political connections to get favored deals. That has nothing to do with Capitalism and is just an extention of anti-free market socialism.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Well, there--we agree on something besides ending the wars then.
mopsius 2 years ago
But that is not "Socialism"--that is Finance Capitalism.
And there is no such thing as a "free market" or as a completely controlled economy.
It is a false duality.
mopsius 2 years ago
Where did I say Reagan cut spendng--you are making that up, mickeysears.
In fact Reagan promised at one point to fire 10,000,000 Federal employees, HAHAHAHAHA.
mopsius 2 years ago
Anyway your Classic British Liberal Social Darwinist program will not work. Nor will Paul's idiocy about a gold currency.
mopsius 2 years ago
"Economically, the main thing in this process is the displacement of capitalist free competition by capitalist monopoly. Free competition is the basic feature of capitalism, and of commodity production generally; monopoly is the exact opposite of free competition, but we have seen the latter being transformed into monopoly before our eyes, creating large-scale industry and forcing out small industry...
V.I. Lenin (1)
mopsius 2 years ago
""...replacing large-scale by still larger-scale industry, and carrying concentration of production and capital to the point where out of it has grown and is growing monopoly: cartels, syndicates and trusts, and merging with them, the capital of a dozen or so banks, which manipulate thousands of millions."
V.I. Lenin (2)
mopsius 2 years ago
You were probably raised to shiver when you heard "Marx" or "Lenin", as if it were the worst kind of pornography.
Like the Four Gospels what is written in that corpus is not what you have been told is written there.
Yopu seem to think yelling "Socialist!" is some kind of showstopper, as when the Born Again yell "God!".
mopsius 2 years ago
Don't need to shiver hearing the name Marx. He was a whore who sold himself to pen his name to a manifesto he never originally wrote.
mickeysears 2 years ago
You see how ignorant and predictable you are, mickeysears? I did not see your comment three minutes ago when posting mine two seconds ago.
Look carefully.
I am getting a pretty clear idea of how you think you were "educated", i.e: propagandized.
mopsius 2 years ago
I have said that to so many American nuts who think their education is down to earth but they can't see it sits on a huge wide topped mountain of McCaytian coldwar fear and nonsense that is made too look like sea level with fake reasons for Americas <1970 relative prosperity.
I had one yank attempt to call me a fool in another thread because I disagreed that socialism meant "the government telling you what to do"
CmdrTobs 2 years ago
I knew the Austrian economists when you were probably still shitting in your diapers, mickeysears.
mopsius 2 years ago
Government has to get PUT of a thousand other things, including the prison industrial complex.
I would give you a watchword but you would not understand it--"One Bastiat in every Socialist Cell".
Short of that it is collapse and chaos.
For myself, I don't give a fuck one way or another.
There are plenty of other places in the world that are eminently livable.
The US is over, one way or the other.
If you have any brains you are planning or what comes afterward.
mopsius 2 years ago
You're full of shit. If you didn't care one way or the other, you wouldn't even be here typing.
I care.
That's why I'm here. To try and convince others that the direction The US is headed is wrong.
mickeysears 2 years ago
I don' t give a shit--really.
Things will be clear by Spring.
Other countries. and climes beckon.
I am tired of being among slobbering morons left and right.
You "caring" and $120 will get you a cup of coffee in a Tokyo hotel.
mopsius 2 years ago
Too bad you still can't put a coherent arguement together.
And I didn't know we had gulags in Alaska.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Argument on youtube, mickeyears? Whatever for?
mopsius 2 years ago
Gulags in Alaska would accomplish more than you might think, mickeysears, granting that someone like Obama had the brains of a Stalin, which he doesn't.
Stalin was brutal but not dumb.
The US has to be conceived as a economic unit--as a whole..
mopsius 2 years ago
You know, it's funny that you have typed this.
In a previous comment, you complimented Mao. Now you're giving credit to Stalin and wanting to put The US as an "economic unit--as a whole".
IT people like you that have put the world in the shape it's in. Big government, share the wealth, work and worship for the state losers that have killed more humans in the last 100 years than in a 1,000 years before it. If you only knew how ignorant you sound, there might be some hope for you. Sadly No!
mickeysears 2 years ago
Mao was a brilliant revolutionary but he was not too bright economically.
Stalin was a genius.
That has nothing to with ideological analysis.
mopsius 2 years ago
What else is new?...unfortunately.
SkreetGil 2 years ago
Beware the Shanghai Green Gang, mes enfants.
Bon Appetit!
mopsius 2 years ago
Although a band of criminals, I suppose the Shanghai Green Gang did not have problems with the justice of police department. They even became big friends with general Chiang Kai Shek who was the head of the government at that time.
envanje 2 years ago
Sho nuff did, envanje. You are very erudite. Du Yuesheng is a fascinating figure.
mopsius 2 years ago
too much honour mops, I just informed myself on internet, you are the real erudite !
And yes, the maffia has a code of honour. after napoleons invasion of italy he forgot sicily. So in shortest of times anarchy ruled of there and landlords recruited out of the "giovanni d'onore", youth of honour, which as a kind of substitute police received "protection money" (sounds familiar) ? They soon became aware they did not depend on the landlords but that it was the other way around ....
envanje 2 years ago
Big Ear was a man of his word.
mopsius 2 years ago
Chiang is also fascinating as is Mao.
In China when it is orator versus poet, poet wins.
mopsius 2 years ago
With criminals like Sassoon and the British around, I would not rush to affix the same title to Du. Nor did Chiang.
mopsius 2 years ago
Yeah, I know--that's WAY over the Turk's head. Fleetwood, Fleetwood, are you there, Fleetwood.
mopsius 2 years ago
This could be fucking interesting.
mopsius 2 years ago
Ni hao tio! Have you met my water dog?
mopsius 2 years ago
Woof! Woof!
mopsius 2 years ago
Seeing a lot of Portuguese speaking Chinamen in Las Vegas, are we?
mopsius 2 years ago
So, I wonder whether Obama's Mormon Republican Ambassador to China is trying to sell Nevada to the Chinese?
mopsius 2 years ago
MadCow and slOberman really?
LoveThyPitBull 2 years ago
The US Financial Capitalist elite is in shit up to the eyeballs.
They know it.
China knows it.
Russia knows it.
Japan knows it.
Iran knows it.
Israel knows it.
The only ones who don't know it are American dumbasses.
mopsius 2 years ago
The Chinese own Wall Street lock, stock, and barrel.
mopsius 2 years ago
A good part of the US has always been Third World, though it is covered up.
Without serious and radical restructuring a good deal of the rest is about to join them.
mopsius 2 years ago
I suppose a spread the wealth program by force is in order?
mickeysears 2 years ago
She'll cut your hair and he'll cut hers.
Then export the videos to China, hahaha.
mopsius 2 years ago
USD is no longer the World Reserve Currency.
mopsius 2 years ago
Police state or no police state, the US produces almost nothing significant for export anymore.
Either way the US is kaput.
The only real question is how much blood.
And who the elite takes with them when they go.
mopsius 2 years ago
Shut up! we're busy talking about the REAL issues, bringing terrorists to NYC!!
Tdepp13 2 years ago
Mormons visiting mainland China, mainland Chinese visiting Utah--any of you dumbasses profiling that?
mopsius 2 years ago
Mormons talk to Chinese about Obama, duibudui?
mopsius 2 years ago
So could someone explain why Obama appointed a fucking Republican Mormon as US ambassador to China?
mopsius 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Iranians talk to Chinese about US, duibudui?
mopsius 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Russians talk to Chinese about Iran, duibudui?
mopsius 2 years ago
Obama caving in to Wall Street?
Of course!!!!!!
Obama caves in to wall street just as McCain would have, or Romney, or Huckabee, or Clinton ( both Bill and Hillary), Or Bush ( both father and son), or any of the other top candidates and presidential predecesors in the last 100 years. Nothing new here.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Ah so, but mainland China own Wall Street now, tongzhi.
mopsius 2 years ago
It's a common belief but totally not true. Although China holds about $5 Trillion in government debt, they certainly don't own Wall Street. Actually the big wall street banks own China. They financed China for the last 60 years. ExxonMobil got huge drilling rights when China discovered their biggest oil reserve and JP Morgen Chase was the first international bank allowed to operate in China and The Soviet Umion. Both central banks work closely with The Fed behind closed door sessions. HE 1207
mickeysears 2 years ago
You are wrong, mickeysears.
mopsius 2 years ago
HAHA
That's a very convincing arguement.
I guess that proves it then.
mickeysears 2 years ago
I am not going to argue with you, mickeyears.
mopsius 2 years ago
Because you have no arguement.
mickeysears 2 years ago
January 2002 oil = $19 per barrel
August 2008 oil = $147 per barrel.
Think hard, now, mickeysears. And don't hurt yourself.
mopsius 2 years ago
Yea, and today it's $76 per barrel.
I'll assume there a point?
mickeysears 2 years ago
mickeysears--care to analyse that change in prices? From January 2002 to $76?
Show your stuff, come on, dear boy.
mopsius 2 years ago
Again, what's your point.
Or are you just like every other monkey that just throws crap at the wall and hope something sticks?
mickeysears 2 years ago
mickeyyears--you are a fucking economic idiot, and an ideologue, and I have no intention of educating you by arguing with you.
mopsius 2 years ago
Well now.
We get right down to it and the name calling comes out. No facts, no rebuttles that make any sense, no facts that mean anything, just names. You think you know but know nothing. Go ahead and run little boy. You are who I thought you are.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Shide.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US president's Asia trip...is designed to shore up US power in a region increasingly dominated by rising giant China.
But back home, Obama's bow in Japan seems to have grabbed much of the attention...
"The gesture appears to have touched a particularly raw nerve among Obama critics who said the president has hastened America's decline as a world superpower..."
AFP
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Wall Street owns China, and Japan, and Saudi Arabia--mickeysears--HAHAHAHAHAHA.
mopsius 2 years ago
When Geithner visited China the Chinese economists openly laughed in his face.
mopsius 2 years ago
I suggest you start paying close attention, mickeysears.
The Chinese are now making loans in Africa so that Africans can buy their products.
Ring any bells?
Japan has a new government, very cool to the US.
One could go on indefinitely.
Chase and the Federal Reserve are in shit up to their eyeballs and you have been elected the next greater fool.
mopsius 2 years ago
Please start making sense.
mickeysears 2 years ago
You don't have any idea what you are talking about, mickeysears.
FinCap was suckered BIG TIME.
mopsius 2 years ago
And it is not a common belief.
mopsius 2 years ago
The Chinese Communists closely control EVERY aspect of the Chinese economy, including Chinese "banking."
In fact Chinese banking is a key part of their strategy.
You are right about the Federal Reserve but not about who controls whom.
mopsius 2 years ago
There is no secret that whomever pays the bills, calls the tune.
China has been financed by US business for over 60 years. China has enjoyed most favored nation status and our trade deficits just keep getting bigger. IF it wasn't for the US, China would have collapsed by now under the wieght of it's own government. The Chinese Communists control there own economy and eliminated every competitor. A perfect environment for socialists big bankers looking for a place to control.
mickeysears 2 years ago
Nin shi jige shaguade yannggui, mickeysyears.
mopsius 2 years ago
Obama talk to Chinese about Iran, duibudui?
mopsius 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Israelis talk to Chinese about Iran, duibudui?
mopsius 2 years ago
Come on Cenk, be a realist. Obama was hesitant about taking on Healthcare, do you really think he's even going to raise a finger against the exponentially stronger bank industry?
DrQuijano 2 years ago
Except for a few major banks and financials the banks are rather weak right now, many being gobbled up by bigger banks.
Whether that means down the line is a complex question.
Incidentally, using "industry" for banks is like using it for for profit Health Insurers. It gives the impression, even if subconsciously, that they actually "produce" something.
They don't.
mopsius 2 years ago
"What that means..."
mopsius 2 years ago
Actually climate change is the greatest problem facing the Nation and the world. We can't deal with any other issues if we can't grow food or...breathe! But aside from that I have to agree with Cenk. Obama's loyalty to his corporate masters with sink him and the country.
Travelwise65 2 years ago
Sometimes I think... those Scandinavian countries look awfully nice.
MoronDude 2 years ago
chris dodd's proposal is SOCIALISM if we want to truley reform the economy let the free market regulate itself, under bush we had 8 years of solid economic development despite multiple wars, and within 1 year of liberal over regulation and socialism the economy has crashed again, and TYT is nothing but a mouthpiece of obama, besides this TYT has NEVER attacked obama or portrayed him in a bad light. and you people think fox is biased, look at yourselves
tehant1liberal 2 years ago
",,,let the free market regulate itself."
Ah, tehant1liberal's and the Paulistas' and Social Darwinists' old standby again, The Invisible Handjob.
mopsius 2 years ago
the free market can regulate itself on two conditions.
dismantling the justice department.
dismantling the police department.
envanje 2 years ago
There is no such thing as the "free market" just as there is no such thing as a completely "controlled economy."
Better luck next time.
mopsius 2 years ago
on the conditions I said their coud be a "free market"
imagine : no justice department + no police department = total freedom !
envanje 2 years ago
You really must keep up with recent research in economic anthropology, envanje.
mopsius 2 years ago
mops
you cannot deny economy will totally change when property will no longer enjoy the protection of justice and police department.
envanje 2 years ago
The more interesting question at the moment is that of "market"--which is very ancient.
Have you noticed, envanje, that "Chinese economist" is now a much more subtly disturbing phrasing to the Financial Capitalists than the old "Chinese Communist", even though the country is still Communist.
Must be the assonance.
mopsius 2 years ago
Also, envanje, you may want to check out Angela Davis on the prison industrial complex if you have not already.
You might make a bit of hay there.
mopsius 2 years ago
wasn't talking about communists, nor angela davis whoever that might be, nor about making hay.
the closest I get to that is that I do like the song "louisiana hayride". so old you will have trouble to find it in youtube.
anyway what I was talking about is that with the upheavel of the justice and police department economy would change drastically, agree ?
envanje 2 years ago
That's what Angela Davis is talking about--have you read her on the prison-industrial complex, envanje or not?
mopsius 2 years ago
Don't know Angela Davis though Betty Davis was one of my favorite moviestars. Moment, gonna have a short look on internet about the whereabouts of Angela.
envanje 2 years ago
Her hair is Harlow gold, her lips sweet surprise
Her hands are never cold, she's got Bette Davis eyes
She'll turn the music on you, you won't have to think twice
She's pure as New York snow, she got Bette Davis eyes
Kim Carnes
mopsius 2 years ago
hey I heard that song a hundred times on the radio and it never came up to me it was about Bette Davis.
envanje 2 years ago
watch?v=eja-popojUo
The eyes are obvious--hardly any one ever comments on her nose--which has character.
mopsius 2 years ago
tehant1liberal:
"and you people think fox is biased, look at yourselves"
TYT is not claiming to be fair and balanced.
qarnos 2 years ago
He makes obama look bad all the time for no pushing healthcare through like he promised and not being tough against Democrates... Tell you the truth, many of his supporters think that he is full of hot air....
As for regulating the economy, capitalism has the tendancy to suck money from the lower class, therefore we MUST adjust taxes and other things accordingly.... The system is not fair, nor is it perfect...
The libertarian agenda only cares about abolishing taxes... crazy ass holes.
tempemonkey2323 2 years ago
Seriously, just stop. Do you really think that you can make such asinine statements and expect to be taken the least bit seriously?
Dodd's proposal is a slightly less corrupt form of the ultra-corrupt dictatorship of finance capital, which we all currently live under.
The economy was not fine during the regime of Mad Dog Bush the Younger, nor has it been for decades. However, seeing as how you're not interested in anything but mindless "free-market" sloganeering, I'll leave it at that.
offsprng46 2 years ago
You almost, almost had me take you seriously. Btw, is SOCIALISM worse than socialism? Is that a new breed of zombie socialism like 28-days later?
If I described an apple as RED instead of red, does that mean we should be innately afraid of it?
Oh, and you may wanna rethink your comment on "8 years of solid economic development". I'm not sure if you consider negative growth as development, but that doesn't really fly with most people.
aquiace 2 years ago
It is funny because you people, you leftist morons who watched young turks are the damn people who voted for Obama. You didn't leave it at that, you bought Obama shirts, you praised his name and spread his word. YOu people gave a naive do-nothing, fiscally irresponsible celebrity in charge and now you have the nerve to whinge about it..
willsbanana 2 years ago
I'm not american, so I didn't vote for him. If you could only watch this from the eyes of an objective observer. He's basically trying to get the US on par with the rest of the world, but you guys seem deadset on staying in the middle ages on both political and social issues.
aquiace 2 years ago
He was a better choice than Mccain, still either way we would have gotten war and corporatism.
zet168 2 years ago 3
Pres. O: I am privileged to have addressed you, the people of China. Thank you. Are there any questions. Yes, you...
Dr. U: Mr. President, I am a Chinese economist, and I had an opportunity to hear Mr. Geithner when he visited. My question is--why did you send him to China?
Pres. O: To explain American financial policy to the people of China.
Dr. U: Ah so, now I understand--slapstick! I have seen the same low comedy in some of your old American movies too, like Mr. Jerry Lewis, right?
mopsius 2 years ago
Man, "my ass u are" hahah sweet
Jesusoceanside 2 years ago
I wish people in media would actually do this. People need to here this shit, rather than the shit that goes on now.
Uhhxhi 2 years ago
I'm quite disappointed at the obama administration
tam705618 2 years ago
Oh my gosh, Cenk is actually discussing real issues. But let explain why is this still BS. The only reason Chris Dodd proposed this legislation is because he is threatened by Peter Schiff. Peter Schiff just like Ron Paul represents real reform. The bankers are terrified of true reformers like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff. The Fed and Wall-Steeters arent worried about Chris Dodd, Chris Dodd is worried about himself.
anarchyfortheusa 2 years ago
"The latest internal government estimates place the cost of adding 40,000 American troops and sharply expanding the Afghan security forces, as favored by Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the top American and allied commander in Afghanistan, at $40 billion to $54 billion a year, the officials said. "
NYT/IHT
mopsius 2 years ago
That estimate strikes initially as a vast underestimate.
More likely , at least double that, perhaps more--but one would have to have a look at what they are counting.
The military almost never figures in long term costs, however predictable.
mopsius 2 years ago
It might be a more interesting tactic to send those 40,000 troops to occupy Wall Street rather than Afghanistan.
mopsius 2 years ago 4
Soros recently called for "economics" to be reformed from the ground up.
He's even ponied up big bucks toward that end.
It is not a bad idea.
The bullshit is flying so thick and wet even the bulls are sick of it.
mopsius 2 years ago
"Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go aimlessly hither and thither, like blind led by the blind...."
KU
mopsius 2 years ago
audit the fed already ron paul peter schiff need to come on tyt again
solreavir 2 years ago