Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (30)
Truth is that people dont want to believe in God because they fear what it would mean. So u can believe u came from monkeys if u want but me I dont think so. People need to seperate religion from faith and look around and smell the coffee.
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (30)
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (30)
hmm and we theists are being shunned for believing in an improbable sky-man? Universe (all that exist) from nothing? That even goes against(I am no scientist) all the scientific laws I have been taught.
Does evolution begin on big bang level? According to Theory of Probability (look wiki pedia - the infinite monkey theorem ) it was impossible to create Intellect Existence by the chance during as short time as 14 billions years after big bang So, there are two opportunities 1 If big bang is true theory then must be an intellectual beginning inside it 2 If big bang is not true then according to Probability Universe has chance not zero but nearly zero to creat Intellect Existence
I read the comments and well one universe bumped into another one of anti matter? LOL wtf if so then where did THOSE universes come from? XD what an idiot. there was no "bang" either it was so fast it was instant just as if God said it and poof it happened.
The Old Lady’s TORTOISE (Hinduism) and DRAGON (Taoism) are symbols for WAVE (energy), both are analog with MAGEN DAVID (Judaism). "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" is the metaphor, and also similar with allegory of rituals Thawaf circling around the Ka'ba and Sa’i oscillating along “the sinus” Marwah-Shafa during the Hajj pilgrimage (Abraham). YIN-YANG: energy-particle . CROSS (Christian) and SWASTIKA (Buddhism) are symbols for “Balance of Nature.”
now what really needs to be studied is WHAT that stuff was outside of, and around the universe. Hawking calls it a void. The bible says God flew around the VOID. WHAT IS the VOID?!
wasn't so spontaneous. This universe bumped into another universe, one with anti-matter which started a explosion. The famous guy in the wheel chair and computer voice explains it all! LOL
Now unless GOD was the one that moved universe things together, maybe . LOL
the universe then does not have a beginning. but god does. and for an eternity before the universe existed. so neither "god" or the universe has a beginning.
I'm Eric Hovind God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. God done it. lalalalalalalalala My Dad's in prison for fraud, *sniff*
What people don't understand is "nothing" before the big bang is something. So, yes, something can come from nothing. Only after the big bang does nothing come from nothing.
"and then something happened, triggering the most colossal EXPLOSION..." it wasn't an explosion... it was an expansion, 2 very differnt things. "this colossal BLAST created everything" no it didnt... the big bang *expansion* didn't CREATE matter, matter and energy were already existing within the universe and expanded outward extremely fast
I developed depression and it happened in my christian years. I prayed and prayed every night to god to change my frame of mind and to renew it. I then developed a mild form of agoraphobia. God never answered my prayer so I thought of suicide and fortunately never did it. I then went to a hypno therapist and it did help me. I watched Derren Brown documentaries before going to the therapist.
I then studied religions and came to the conclusion that there is NO GOD.
@time2learnnow that's really sad that you had depression. . . .but there are lots of people who have studied religion who have come to a very different conclusion.
also your "Now I can think for myself." comment, is just silly. Are you seriously saying that the majority of the brightest minds of the past 2 thousand years weren't thinking for themselves? and that you have somehow come to a higher knowledge through a bit of study?
@beethovensheir1234 And the Big Bang theory is the result of evidence. It was formed around the evidence and the universe we live in only makes sense using it. And when physicists say nothing they don't mean absoltely nothing. In fact, many of them say almost nothing. No one knows eactly what happened before the Big Bang. It could have happened by itself or god could have done it, but we do know it did happen.
@Atheist616666 Evidence? was anyone there? how do they know? scientists have a hard time getting things that happened last week right seriously. . . . I have talked to alot of people (in person, from colleges, universities etc) and have never been presented with a good argument for the Big bang, and by good I mean scientific, testable repeatable etc.
It seems to me that the Big band is not so much as a scientific theory as much as it is a HUGE leap of blind faith.
@beethovensheir1234 And just because scientists haven't yet fully figured out what happened before the Big Bang, it doesn't mean that god is more likely than their hypothesi.
@Atheist616666 haha, sorry dude that is the lamest argument ever. please stop using it seriously haha.
Scientist haven't fully figured it out, then why are they presenting it in schools on tv and such as though it is absolute truth?! not only have they not fully figured it out they have absolutely no way of getting the thing started. To say that you have a book, when all you are holding is a vile of ink, is not only grossly dishonest it is stupid.
@beethovensheir1234 Try to understand my arguement. While scientists don't know what the cause of the Big Bang was, they still know that it happened. First of all, the universe is expanding. This is an observable fact. Since the universe is expanding, logic shows that it would have all started from an small point. Einstein's Theory of General Relativity also predicts that the universe cannot be static. Also the Big Bang theory predicts smething called the Background Microwave Radiation...
@beethovensheir1234 Hey. Sorry for the late reply. Oh no. I'm not saying the brightest people in the past 2000 years weren't thinking for themselves. I'm saying that I allowed false teachings of christianity to influence my thinking thus creating thoughts of a "god can do anything for me if I just focus on him" thinking.
Since I've rejected this I think for myself and not let an "invisible entity" tell me what to do.
@beethovensheir1234 Sorry for this rather too late reply. No, I was merely referring to the fact that I was being mind controlled by religion believing anything I was told to believe and to think that the bible is the only way one gets to heaven.
Now I using my brain to make a choice to believe what I'm convinced of.................EVOLUTION!
Anyway, saying that everything came from "nothing" is more likely than everything coming from God. There are two reasons for this. One because it's unlikely that God exists, and two, becuase when physicists say nothing, the mean something different from nothing, as everyone understands it to be.
Under what authority do you say it is unlikely that God exsists?
And seriously, everything coming from nothing is more likely than everything coming from God??? have you lost all sense of reason? What else does nothing mean? I kinda always thought it meant nothing.
The Big Bang theory(as a whole)is Irrational, childish, and should NOT be accepted by anyone who is a thinking person. It is a Fairy tale, with no proof or evidence, it is NOT science!
@beethovensheir1234 Well common sense and observation shows that it is unlikely that God exists, but that alone isn't enough to disprove him. And yes everything coming from physical laws is more likely than everything coming from God, because its more likely that something simple like matter and energy always existed rather than something as complex as God.
@beethovensheir1234 you don't even know what nothing is, ;nothing is NOTHING. when you try to imagine nothing, you're imagine something. maybe you're imagining blackness? or whiteness? or just emptiness. THATS STILL SOMETHING we can't imagine nothing, because it's nothing. so we can't truly understand what or how NOTHING is or works. perhaps out of true NOTHING could come SOMETHING. we don't know, but as far as we know, everything that is SOMETHING is our universe so before was nothing
I see nothing in the bible that proves it is the word of god. There's no mention of anything that wasn't known to everyone in the area. The son of god could have warned mankind about germs for instance and spoken about hygiene he did not. Dinosaurs aren't mentioned,which did exist, evolution is not mentioned which I'm afraid despite the argument has been observed, proven and confirmed many times over. Why couldn't the son of god say one thing to prove to future doubting Thomases who he was?
@scotty That's interesting? What do you mean dinosaurs aren't mentioned? Do you mean the word "dinosaur" or that the Bible does not describe any massive monstrous animals?
Also, btw, if you don't mind, just to test your understanding, who do you think this passage is talking about? "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement that brought us peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed."
@itsADieL 'he was wounded for our transgressions' sounds like they're talking about jesus, if so, I don't see how a person can be born with sin, these are tiny innocent babies that haven't done anything. And that someone, especially an all knowing all loving lord, would want payment in blood for something is pretty barbaric and difficult to swallow. That someone's torture would be necessary payment is outrageous and that generations removed many many yrs later people would be held accountable.
@scotty I agree. Its about Jesus.That passage is a small part of a larger passage in the Jewish Bible, Isaiah 53. Isaiah 53 predicts coming of the Jewish Messiah, his substitutionary death for the sins of the world, his resurrection from the dead, and the fact that the Jews in general wouldn't receive him. This passage was written 700 years before Jesus came into the world. Its one of hundreds of "Messianic prophecies" found in the Jewish Bible which Jesus fulfilled. The Bible is supernatural.
@itsADieL Isn't the 'jewish bible' the old testament? That's the one jesus would have followed right? cause he was a jew. Anyway, if the christian bible was written after that one couldn't the writers have simply known it and tailored their writing to fulfill whatever was prophesied? Why not? They say something's gonna happen and you say okay this is it, the fulfillment of that. So it legitimizes whatever you write and makes it sound important. Those old religions copied one another all over.
@scotty But here's what's interesting. The prophecies said that the Jews in general would reject him and they did. But not all of them rejected him since the New Testament itself was written by his Jewish followers. So this is what we have: Jews who were so convinced that their friend Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament Messianic prophecies that they worshiped him as God (which if he isnt God would be a violation of the 1st,2nd,and 3rd of the 10 Commandments which they believed God gave them).
@scotty And the reason they were so convinced is because they said that after he was publically killed he literally rose again from the dead 3 days later on the first day of the week, Sunday. This is why they believed he was the Messiah, God in the flesh, and the reason why they, who were Jews, began worshiping on Sunday (which if it wasn't true would be a violation of the 4th Commandment which told them to worship on Saturday). And these eyewitnesses were martyred for their testimony.
@scotty This is what we have coming out of the first century from Jews who were martyred for their testimony: "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty." (Peter) And, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life" (John)
@scotty And, "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once... After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time."(Paul, beheaded for this)
@itsADieL You know next to politician 'speak' or rhetoric bible speak or rhetoric is the most mind bending. One easily gets lost in the hypnotic over abundance of ramblings which are anything but simple and direct and seem aimed more at seducing, hypnotizing or clouding one rather than provide illumination. I guess your saying there were lots of eye witnesses to whatever this is so this proves it. I don't know if such a thing holds water today, it sounds like hear say at best.
@scotty me again sorry for all the typos hope you can make sense of it anyway. About the bible vs the physicists, I see religious minded people using great skepticism when scrutinizing evolution evidence and now since Hawking's new book this issue of quantum physics. I think it's wise to be so we shouldn't swallow whole everything we're told. But I don't see the same thing happening with these people when it comes to scripture. There the mind becomes totally accepting and unquestioning.
This is a trap laid by delusional people of faith designed to catch sincere truth seekers. Avoid. Don't you feel ashamed using all of these duplicitous tactics? Trying to lure people in under a pretense?
@itsADieL In The Beginning, the video does seem like it's going to be about science, about the strange and fantastic notion that something could indeed come out of what we call nothing. This idea is spoken of in numerous physics books and has been observed to be happening apparently under lab conditions and I was seeking more information on that. Suddenly, the video switches to a religious content and some text comes on the screen about jesus. I felt betrayed, judas. Physicists I believe .
@scotty Also sorry if you were somehow mislead by what the video would be about. The point of the video is to question the unscientific proposition that "nothing created everything" and to compare such a notion to the divine revelation.
@itsADieL 'to question the unscientific proposition' This thing is coming from our leading physicists. It's in several of the most recent books on the matter and is spoken of in key lectures. I prefer to believe our modern physicists in these matters rather than the writings of people we know only in name if that who wrote several thousand yrs ago. You have trouble believing our modern scientists who depend on tested observation and proof of experiment and corroboration?
If the big bang is everything, how come it exploded in space or in the nothingness? It's just a timeless simulation on a variety of dimensions and situations coming together making E=mc2 an infinite calculation for the ultimate () - this represents what came before Big Bang which is nothing, making nothing = no time = life a situation of timeless cycles. Which means that we can never die.Unless there really is time.Then a new Big Bang will occur. So, maybe this wasn't the first! Who knows?!
@sveinn123 Several. I was joking, if it all came into being spontaneously as atomic particles they would eventually come together as orbs, or eventually my left ventricle. Or yours. What is your point? :-)
I think the universe has always existed and i dont believe in a god. I think we as humans like to put a date on things but time is so vast in the universe.
I think that God and Gods and religions are man made and has evolved with and by humans true the ages, it is an expression of something within the man that is originating from the "nature" who created everything. Gods are what man want God to be, the bible is a fictionary text that has nothing to do with the "nature" who created everything. But I am sure there is an creator but it's not mans God.
Also if you accept a religious text as absolute truth you are nothing more than somebody's tool. Therefore you are by definition a slave and have no fucking say whatsoever because your opinion is already noted in the text of your religious dogma. I have read the whole bible and do not need religious nuts to regurgitate it all over me. Thank You. Any and all replies will be answered and I look forward to a great conversation.
At the end of it all though each one of us must place our faith, roll the dice, and fight to the death over our own convictions. If evolution teaches us anything, it is that those who are right are those left standing. If you as an inquisitive mind want truth it must be physically sought out scientifically tested and then practically applied to go "higher farther and faster"
If this is true god did not create the universe but it would suggest he created both order and, that which we call, life. To say that there is no god is internally foolish. To say what that god is, does, and is like; is even more foolish. But faith is the root of understanding and knowledge. Not faith in a religious sense but faith in what you have chosen to believe. But to deny life is a contest is also very foolish. Someone is right and others are wrong.
Belief in time is the tripping point for this argument. Time is not real what we say is beggining is also what humans call an end. One experiences time as an elapsing of distance travelled. That is by definition a 3 dimensional world with its own governing rules and inherent limitations. So as creationists say god always was can be viewed as accurate. So if that is true for a god, why not the universe as well. I postulate god and the universe are quantum and entangled.
Hawking say Universe was created out of absolutely nothing, but absolutely nothing is also something, something that universe was created from, so absolutely nothing is something. Even absent of everything is something, because you can say and imagine it.
i love how creationists use these theories to "prove" jesus was the son of a god who spoke everything into existence. Science is concrete, man in faullable but searching. Perhaps we arent at the point yet where we can comprehend or find what started the universe, but atleast were trying instead of blindly following a "God" who is all knowing and all powerful yet made us sinners and blames us for sinning. its like building a rocking chair with no legs and cursing it because it wont rock.
God DID NOT create the universe.Religion was created by man.And when man didnt even exist,religion didnt exist.Who knows how we got here or how the universe was created.It all had to start somewhere.
If nothing can come from nothing, then nothing makes sense. If you conclude that nothing can come from nothing, you have a problem that is unsolvable; like the chicken and the egg. This also disproves intelligent design and every single type of god, because it returns to the question of: Who created this god then?
The very first sentence is a gigant strawman - I see someone bought the nonsense of Kent Hovind, it sounds like him anyway. "cosmic evolution".. Pfft.
And if you think it´s so impossible for something to come from nothing, I´d really like to know what you think god made the universe out of.. was it... nothing?
What you´re mocking here is in fact you´re very only belief. That god poofed the universe out of.. absolutely nothing.. So good job mocking yourself and strawmanning your "opposition"
@Kor And I apparently cant make sentences right now.. It should be "is a gigantic strawman" and "you´re very own beliefs"
Go learn some actual science from some actual scientists.
If you want to intelligently disagree with something and convince others you are right and they are wrong, you have to demonstrate that you´ve bothered researching it and understanding what you think is wrong first. This video proves you havent. Understanding doesnt mean accepting.. I´d start here; watch?v=wg1fs6vp9Ok
Ok, everything needs a cause, so what caused the "god" that caused the big bang? The video is so bullshit from the start and has so many flaws i dont have enough words/time to shoot it all to pieces.
We never observe something coming from nothing. Should we then conclude that it is impossible for something to come from nothing? That would be absurd since, here we are in a universe that exists, whether you think God did it or not. (unless you feel the universe is eternal, which is OK by me). Likewise, everything we observe has a cause. Should we then conclude its impossible to exist without a cause? No, like the first conclusion. it does not follow that things must have a cause.
@itsADieL If we observe a thing we can use that as evidence that it exists. If I go to the grand canyon I can confirm that rocks exist. What about rocks that float because they are lighter that air. Well I have never seen one so I could speculate that floating rocks are unlikely. Nevertheless, maybe rocks on another planet might form under the conditions that they are lighter than the air of that planet. I can't absolutely rule them out. You have to be careful with logic.
@itsADieL I do use my observations to form my beliefs. Many are not direct of course. I also try to use reason as best I can (although its very tricky and easy to be wrong). I have seen many crows. They are black. So I believe crows are black, ie, its highly probably a crow, if encountered, will be black. Nevertheless, in Japan there is a crow with a white collar. I would have been wrong to conclude all crows are black.
@itsADieL Sorry to go on and on, but don't you agree with me? We don't see something coming from nothing, yet we believe God created the universe from nothing. Don't we? Or we believe that there was a finite probability a particle can come into being from nothing. Right?
@itsADieL Read the quran..and tell me that a desert dweller was either the most intelligent man to ever walk the face of this beautiful planet, or, all of the scientifical proof and logical explanations are from the creator of this creation. Plus, just because someone hasn't found the truth, does not mean they should listen to the most obscene and completely illegitimate theory to pop in one's bright mind. God gave us a brain for a reason, are you using yours? We dont live this life forever.
@PotentPatient The Bible condemns the teaching of the Qurans for many reasons one of them being because the Quran posits that God is an abomination. How does it do so? Well, think about this, the Bible says, "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord". Now, the Bible also says that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". In other words, we are all guilty of sin, we are all wicked before God. With that said...
@itsADieL I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but to agrue between what the Bible says vs what the Quran says is likened to arguing over who is stronger, Superman or the Incredible Hulk? It's a childish and inane debate to engage in considering the fact that we have as likely a chance of seeing god or allah as we do Clark Kent flying or Bill Bixby turning green. Hypotheticals are fine as long as we don't take them seriously or allow them to create divisive separatist emotions. RIGHT?
@PotentPatient according to the Quran, Allah justifies the wicked who repent, leaving their sins unpunished. ie Allah is "an abomination" because he justifies the wicked and leaves their sins unpunished.
@itsADieL Ok I understand but you must realize, when someone is brought to the light, nd is revealed the many contradictions the bible possesses, and can actually put aside the taboos and rules of their circumstances, then read the book sent down from the creator, theres no mistake. Thats one of the many reasons most scientist convert to islam.. the proof is in the literature..
@itsADieL provide proof, being well versed in the bible, surely must have read the Qura'an. However, we have 99 names for Allah, and they the finest linguistically. please research before responding.
@itsADieL: I have a couple of videos about the “Big Bang” and “Evolution by Natural Selection” on my channel if you are interested in watching them, because you clearly are completely ignorant of those two concepts.
@itsADieL FYI, God also justifies the wicked and leaves their sins unpunished. Abraham committed sin in his heart when he was willing to kill his son (and don't try "he was just doing what god told him to do" because EVERYONE could use THAT excuse) yet god not only didn't punish him, he promoted him! As many crazy ideas as you can find in the Quran you can find their mirror image in the Bible. The difference is, you LOOK for them in the Quran but JUSTIFY them in the Bible. Think!
@aburling7 If you read the Bible you'll see that it is very clear that God leaves no sin unpunished. Not one. Every single wicked thought, word, and deed that has ever been committed will ultimately receive it's just dessert: the wrath of God. Whether it's the sins of Abraham, or Moses, or David, or you, or me. And yet at the same time the Bible is also clear that God will indeed justify some people and grant them eternal life.
@itsADieL I know, I know, and if you read Gulliver's Travel's or Lord of the Rings or Moby Dick they all have wonderful, inspirational and often times horrifying stories in them as well. But one doesn't fashion their life around those stories or preach them from the rooftops. It is a sign of delusional obsessiveness when EVERYTHING one hears, thinks or says is considered only through the subjective view of one iron age book. That is absolutely crazy! Can't you see that? Free your mind.
@PotentPatient Stop picking and choosing verses that support your point of view. It's NOT ok to claim the quran is full of "science", when that SAME book is also FULL of "scientific errors". Seriously, start using your brain! You also said "all of the scientifical proof and logical explanations are from the creator of this creation" - Are you freaking serious? quran is just another crap book used to control them masses, just like the bible. god didn't give us a brain. He does not exist.
@PotentPatient just because someone can't UNDERSTAND the truth, does not mean they should listen to the most obscene and completely illegitimate IDEA to pop in one's desert nomad's delusional and ignorant mind.
To believe so diligently in 4th century thinking (w/ NO evidence) over 21st century understanding (w/ droves of knowledge and understanding) is intellectually inept. I bet if you or a loved one developed cancer you would suddenly believe in science. Never forget that.
@aburling7 is this a joke? its a proven fact that there are numerous scientifical facts, that were only proven within the past century, in the quran, which may I remind you was revealed over 1400 years ago! do yourself a favor and visit this website - i s l a m r e l i g i o n (dot) c o m - you may just find all of your answers here
@PotentPatient Why didn't they cure diseases or transplant hearts back then? Because they were ignorant to the medical sciences. So if you read in the Koran that drinking goats milk cures female ministration or that Muhammad ascended to heaven on a winged horse you are equally ignorant (or religiously brain-washed) to choose to believe that over 21st century understanding. There is NO reason outside of emotional attachments and/or fantasy thinking to entertain Biblical or Koranic ideas.
@estragon9 Actually we do observe something coming from nothing, I recommend reading Stephen Hawking's book for the concrete example(I keep forgetting what it's called (I think they're called virtual particles, but I'm not sure)) as well as sizeable reasons for dismissing the neccessity for a God, not to mention the fact that there is quite a leap from creator God to specific theistic God.
@Solensherre I have heard that particles can spontaneously pop into and out of a complete vacuum. "Before" the big bang there wasn't even space to contain the vacuum. Nevertheless, I am told there is a finite probability for a particle to appear. I think it could be that the tiny bubble that expanded to become our universe, existed eternally. This type of physics is way beyond my understanding though.
@estragon9 This kind of physics is beyond me as well, but the little I understand leads me to consider that the universe may spontaneously come into existence unprovoked, and in fact infinitely many have...
Alas, just because I don't understand it fully, does not mean it is fundamentally impossible to understand...
Interesting approach. After establishing that a 1st cause is not necessary, the video continues with an argument goes: You do need a 1st cause, because you just really need it. Further it says things that are eternal don't need a 1st cause because there eternal. This tiny particle that popped into existence, was preceded by eternity, I think we all agree with that. (even using the word preceding is awkward). Then a sudden giant leap to Yaweh. Huh? (oh and nice music)
What a pile of Crap.......Sorry but I would rather believe in GOD that what your talking about here. Wake up and give the Bible a chance or just call out to God and HE will answer you.
@Yarah777 a god whom tells you that it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery? a god whom commands the death of homosexuals and disobedient children? death for those who do not follow the priest? a god who expects us to love him through fear and death and sentencing those who simply do not see the evidence for his existence to eternal pain? what kind of god is this, some sort of sadistic and jealous child. and his "logic" in his "laws" and "creations" are very questionable
Ok, 5:57 confuses me... he says that saying something came from nothing is not possible... but god (being something), came from nothing? But if he is nothing...then nothing created something...right? So his validation of god is skewed...
Someone help me...my brain is exploding with arguments of semantics!!!
@bsedhs He's making the distinction between something that is eternal and something that has a beginning ie "popped into existence from nothing". God is eternal. He doesn't have a beginning. He didn't "pop into existence" but rather has always existed. The universe on the other hand is not eternal. The universe has a beginning. The Big Bang teaches that the universe popped into existence from nothing (a scientific impossibility).
@itsADieL So how come you can just say god is eternal and it's as simple as that? Time could have always existed...which would mean that this in turn could have happened. You can't say god just exists. They doesn't make sense... One thing can just exist, and another can't?
@bsedhs Well for one thing, if time had a beginning then it obviously isn't eternal, right? And that's what the Big Bang teaches, that matter, space, and time had a beginning. But more than that God Himself says that He is eternal. Moreover the Bible says concerning Jesus Christ: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things..."
f a creator exists, then who or what made him/ her/ it? If we find that this question is unanswerable then why can we not save a step and conclude that the answer to where the universe came from is unanswerable.
Or
if we say that a creator was always there and always will be there, then we can conclude that the universe was always there as well.
If a creator exists, then who or what made him/ her/ it? If we find that this question is unanswerable then why can we not save a step and conclude that the answer to where the universe came from is unanswerable.
Or
if we say that a creator was always there and always will be there, then we can conclude that the universe was always there as well.
@EmbraceDorkhood P.S. I also believe that time BEGAN, since the Quran Says in Surah 103:1 that Allah swears by time (as He swears by His other creations). I believe that this state of "non-time" you speak of was eternity and since our universe is within the boundaries of time and constantly under the influence of time, I believe that before there was even a universe there was an eternal being i.e. Quran Surah Al Baqarah 2:255 "The Eternal, the Everlasting..."
@EmbraceDorkhood Well like I said, you can't apply the laws of physics to the Originator of the laws of physics, He is outside of it's boundaries. So what you're saying is that there was gravity before there was any mass having a gravitational field which caused the existence of mass with gravitational fields.. interesting.
Some people are just mad. Not only do they believe rabbits really pop into existence from nothing, but they also come into being without the magician or the hat.
What prevents us from believing any old absurdity we want? I might as well equally believe there suddenly exists a random horse from nowhere in my living room defecating on my carpet. Why? Because any old thing can come out of nowhere, for no reason, from nothing...
relying on a god is better for me to live.... when i realize that days when there was nothing in the universe ...BLANK UNIVERSE ... make me made,,,, doesn't make sense too
Both sides have logical views. As of now, both are nothing but theories, but in the end, only one of them will become true. You can pick your sides, but when an individuals time comes to an end, is when he will know the truth.
@Bodywrecker I'm sorry, both sides have logical views? What is 'logical' about a timeless, spaceless, all-powerful entity that lives outside of our plane of existence, creating the highly complex Universe we see all around us?
I think you'd be better acknowledging that one theory is an idea of how the Universe came to be the way we see it, cause unknown, using extrapolated data from observable phenomenon. The other is an obvious fairytale and transparent attempt to shoehorn myth into science.
@humanfly78 Personally, I do favor Science over faith, because it just simply makes more sense and is well - more logical. But on the other hand, the more answers you find the more questions you create - and this will be an infinite loop. Behind all those answers just leaves room for a deity for those "Believers".
Acknowledge that you said "Theory" and not "Fact" because neither faith nor science has been proven nor will be until your end. Let me rephrase; Both are nothing but theories.
@Bodywrecker You're right, the faithful will always find room for their absurd god wherever there is doubt in a theory. That is no reason to acknowledge their POV, though.
Your last statement is misleading; yes, the BB theory is just that, a theory, but it was ascertained through careful measurement and observation of known facts and extrapolating them backwards. It is constantly being refined and improved. The other POV is no theory, it's just a belief based on the words in an old book.
How can you say 'there is nothing irrational about an eternal being'? Where is the rational proof of the eternal being? Because science doesn't have a clear and easy to understand explanation of 'something from nothing' we should then accept an ancient book of myth as true?
It has been said that what ever you think you know about the universe is radically different than it's reality. This is fast becoming evident to scientists.
Normal explanatory concepts such as "beginning, end, cause and effect" (while useful in our little microcosm) are quite meaningless when attempting to describe the essential nature of the universe. When space and time are reduced to near zero cause and effect no longer apply.
To a scientist, even "nothing" means something. It's been postulated that a state between matter and energy appears as nothing since it doesn't possess the properties of matter or energy. That doesn't mean it is actually nothing in the way we normally define it.
Alternate states of the universe are plausible that do not exist in three dimensions--terms such as a "singularity" or a one or two dimensional existence have been advanced.
Hawking attempts to account for why the universe began to exist by appealing to the quantum vacuum, then saying presto! no god required. But on his model the quantum vacuum has a past spacetime boundary--it began to exist!! So Hawking's "explanation" doesn't even come close to answering the question why being rather than nothing.
both notions of creationism are irrational. creation is not an explanation b/c the mechanism behind it cannot be logically understood. as far as i'm concerned either the universe is eternal, or this whole issue is really just a metaphysical question that we'll never be able to answer.
@uyenst God didn't "begin" to exist. The Bible says that God is eternal. He has no beginning but the universe does have a beginning: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".
@itsADieL Are you for real? "The Bible says..." so what? 'Moby Dick' says "Call me Ishmael". This is not a valid point or argument.
Also, the constant bashing of the Big Bang theory by religious dullards, because there is currently no explanation for the origin of the Universe, is rendered totally moot by saying 'God is eternal, and did not require a beginning'. This implies YOUR theory does not have to abide by the same levels of scrutiny as the theory put forward by the scientific world.
@humanfly78 Exactly, but our theory isn't paid for by taxes and requires a God which is not physically provable other than maybe on the personal level. So yes, our theory doesn't need to abide by the same levels of scrutiny because it doesn't suggest that it is fact in every child's textbook.
@Brandon221144 Er, no, not 'exactly'. The point is, that the religious assert that god does not need a beginning and is not restrained by known physical laws... but this other competing theory IS. It's completely asinine!
You said yourself, "...requires a God which is not physically provable...", so where's the evidence? Let's humour you for one minute, and assume there was no proof for the BB theory at all (which there is), it would still be a more logical theory than 'magic man did it".
@humanfly78 Magic man did it? That's less logical than a big smiley ball of fire and any other imaginary material you want it to be? That's your belief, but you cannot obtain something from nothing unless someone that is not confined by the rules of this Universe such as a God. The big bang theory is just a separate and almost meaningless description of how scientists think the universe was formed. It has no evidence and doesn't make sense without a creator.
@Brandon221144 I was going to let this go, as I don't really have the patience to deal with deliberate ignorance. But, I decided I need to tell you that your 'understanding' of the BB theory is embarrassingly poor, also you have added a layer of extra ignorance by claiming "you cannot obtain something from nothing unless someone that is not confined by the rules of this Universe such as a God"... Really? How do you propose to prove this? Please show your calculations. Logical fallacy, fail.
@humanfly78 Tell me what part of the Big Bang theory creates matter? Tell me what a God cannot do when out of the realm of universal science? If you don't have the matter to start the Big Bang it's not going to pop out of no where. If it was a swirling ball of dust, where did the dust come from? Who created it?.. being according to our laws of science it couldn't just create itself. I don't need calculations, but you do need to look up which logical fallacy you believe I have committed.
@Brandon221144 Ok, last one. Logical fallacy: your assertion that the Universe could ONLY be created by a god. Where's the proof? Why do you ask 'who' created it, why not a 'what'? Also, there was no dust at the moment of the first expansion, just very hot gas and forces like gravity and electromagnetism. You don't need 'matter' to create a universe, as the BB caused matter to exist. Try actually reading something about the BB theory rather than clinging to your bronze-age dogma. I'm out.
@humanfly78 Last time I checked, gas was matter, maybe I'm wong, but consult your 8th grade science text book before making a statement like that, then later we can move onto more advanced subjects.
@Brandon221144 Never said it wasn't. Don't try playing semantics, it doesn't suit you. You asserted matter was necessary for the creation of the universe. I said it wasn't, as this was created at the moment of the BB, INCLUDING gases, but NOT 'dust'.
@humanfly78 The meaning and definition of matter was important in the context with which you wrote it. It was offensive towards my better judgement of the material with which you made an obvious error yourself. I noticed this large error that made your argument realistic and I pointed it out in order to make your statement less meaningful and to make mine more meaningful. Not sure if you or anyone will ever be able to explain how matter created itself. Emphasis on the word 'created'.
@Brandon221144 Again, no. I did not make a mistake; you misunderstood and misinterpreted two separate statements in my previous post.
Why do you insist on sticking to this absurd notion that matter had to 'create' itself in order for the universe to exist? Adding some ever-present being in order to explain how the Universe came to be adds nothing to the argument, and in fact muddies the question even more. Lastly, I use the word 'created' as a convenient synonym for 'started' or 'begun'.
@humanfly78 I do appologize for the intensity of my response. But when I am attacked (especially with a wrong statement) I usually attack back with similar intensity. If you want to talk this out like mature adults, I will do so. If your going to take blind stabs in the bad, I will probably ignore you. But if you take stabs at me and seemingly know what your talking about, I might just stab back with something more logical. I guess that's just me.
@Brandon221144 Apology accepted (but not necessary). I have not made a wrong statement as far as I know, but I am no astrophysicist, so i can only relay a lay understanding of the BB theory as best I can. I also have no particular attachment to the theory, but i completely object to the addition of this absurd notion of a timeless, spaceless being that exists outside of our realm of existence.. but that can somehow directly influence our Universe. Making it unprovable is just so convenient.
@humanfly78 So let's say the big bang happened by swirling hot gases and dust around and around and around until it formed a ball of dust so vast and so hot that it combusted and slung large balls of dust and hot gas (planets and stars) into the way we see them today. Where did the gas come from? Where did the dust come from?
The pieces to allow the Big Bang to happen, are missing. So maybe it isn't rational to place God did it right there right away, but what do you propose we do?
@Brandon221144 Actually, let's not say that, because, once again, you have misrepresented the theory.
The first tangiable 'stuff' to coalesce from the BB was Hydrogen & Helium (these are still by far the most prevalent elements in the Universe). These gases - eventually - formed the first stars. These stars lived their lives, until, boom - they die; and THAT is where we get our 'dust' and heavier elements from.
I propose we keep piecing the puzzle together, logically. What else?
@humanfly78 Extrapolation of data can be dangerous and uncalculable from a scientific standpoint of the current day and age. Rather than defending your own viewpoint without analyzing the other, Check out the Book Evolution Exposed. If that book is wrong about it's statements relating to science, then you continue to defend your viewpoint, but until then, you are only seeing your side which is unfair especially when dealing with historical science. If you don't do this then you shouldnt debate.
@Brandon221144 Why would I want to read a book about Evolution, when we are talking about the Big Bang? Also, if anyone had a sound reason as to why Evolution was wrong and proposes an alternative, they would be Nobel prize winners and instantly world-famous. I don't have to read every lunatic's crackpot objection to the Theory of Evolution (which is FACT), in order to dismiss them. I need not read a book proposing Goblins are real, in order to affirm that I'm right to doubt their existence.
@humanfly78 The only part of evolution that is fact is micro-evolution. Cosmic, chemical, stellar, abiogenesis, are all forms of belief. Oh, and to top things off, creationists believe in micro-evolution...only they call it adaptation with limits which was what it used to be called.
@itsADieL i hate how people dont use the bible as a credible source. The bible itself existing today is nothing short of a miracle. The way it was carefully written and how everything is woven so perfectly throughout a large period of time is just amazing. The scripture was all god breathed and inspired by god by the writers. God has left us alone since then and look what we have become! what we have left is the holy spirit to connect us to god and jesus christ. Stop using secular way of thinkin
If god is eternal and therefor existed long before the universe began, then what did he do before creating the universe?
Did he just sit there staring off into space for an infinite amount of time? Was he creating other failed universes?
Those seven days that it allegedly took to create the universe, what were they counting off from? Did he just select a random day in the course of infinity and start creating?
@sveinn123 Actually that's a nonsensical question. God is eternal. What you're asking is: "Who created the Uncreated One?" which doesn't make any sense. The Bible is clear. God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He is.
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (30)
Surah Al-Anbiya
hadchimalo 3 weeks ago
Truth is that people dont want to believe in God because they fear what it would mean. So u can believe u came from monkeys if u want but me I dont think so. People need to seperate religion from faith and look around and smell the coffee.
brownroe 1 month ago
There is a God who created this universe.It is not possible that the universe was created with it self>>
20Murtaza 1 month ago
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@20Murtaza
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (30)
Surah Al-Anbiya
hadchimalo 3 weeks ago
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The universe cannot be fully understood with just logic but religions go way out of hand.
fuckydat 2 months ago
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fuckydat 2 months ago
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fuckydat 2 months ago
My new answer. Nothing. Nothing. What created the Universe? Nothing? How did the Universe begin? Nothing. What abou-- NOTHING!!!!.
DanMarik 3 months ago
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@DanMarik
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (30)
Surah Al-Anbiya
hadchimalo 3 weeks ago
hmm and we theists are being shunned for believing in an improbable sky-man? Universe (all that exist) from nothing? That even goes against(I am no scientist) all the scientific laws I have been taught.
DanMarik 3 months ago
socratus1 4 months ago
It looked like this video was making fun of Creationism. Is that true?
nickmorrison1100 5 months ago
I read the comments and well one universe bumped into another one of anti matter? LOL wtf if so then where did THOSE universes come from? XD what an idiot. there was no "bang" either it was so fast it was instant just as if God said it and poof it happened.
Level99Blackmage 6 months ago
@Level99Blackmage Whats so idiotic about it? Because its not a convenient answer? Grow up.
seblasian 5 months ago
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GOD - Philosophia Perennis and Science.
The Old Lady’s TORTOISE (Hinduism) and DRAGON (Taoism) are symbols for WAVE (energy), both are analog with MAGEN DAVID (Judaism). "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" is the metaphor, and also similar with allegory of rituals Thawaf circling around the Ka'ba and Sa’i oscillating along “the sinus” Marwah-Shafa during the Hajj pilgrimage (Abraham). YIN-YANG: energy-particle . CROSS (Christian) and SWASTIKA (Buddhism) are symbols for “Balance of Nature.”
TatoSugiarto 6 months ago
Call of duty black ops!
crackerjack1410 6 months ago
now what really needs to be studied is WHAT that stuff was outside of, and around the universe. Hawking calls it a void. The bible says God flew around the VOID. WHAT IS the VOID?!
ashleighxeltentat 6 months ago
wasn't so spontaneous. This universe bumped into another universe, one with anti-matter which started a explosion. The famous guy in the wheel chair and computer voice explains it all! LOL
Now unless GOD was the one that moved universe things together, maybe . LOL
ashleighxeltentat 6 months ago
the universe then does not have a beginning. but god does. and for an eternity before the universe existed. so neither "god" or the universe has a beginning.
88bonesaw 9 months ago
USERNAMEfieldempty 9 months ago
What people don't understand is "nothing" before the big bang is something. So, yes, something can come from nothing. Only after the big bang does nothing come from nothing.
sastaroo 9 months ago
2:53 ... That man don't know what he's talking about...
torkamarinum 10 months ago
"and then something happened, triggering the most colossal EXPLOSION..." it wasn't an explosion... it was an expansion, 2 very differnt things. "this colossal BLAST created everything" no it didnt... the big bang *expansion* didn't CREATE matter, matter and energy were already existing within the universe and expanded outward extremely fast
cabot2jville2010 10 months ago
I developed depression and it happened in my christian years. I prayed and prayed every night to god to change my frame of mind and to renew it. I then developed a mild form of agoraphobia. God never answered my prayer so I thought of suicide and fortunately never did it. I then went to a hypno therapist and it did help me. I watched Derren Brown documentaries before going to the therapist.
I then studied religions and came to the conclusion that there is NO GOD.
Now I can think for myself.
time2learnnow 1 year ago
@time2learnnow that's really sad that you had depression. . . .but there are lots of people who have studied religion who have come to a very different conclusion.
also your "Now I can think for myself." comment, is just silly. Are you seriously saying that the majority of the brightest minds of the past 2 thousand years weren't thinking for themselves? and that you have somehow come to a higher knowledge through a bit of study?
beethovensheir1234 1 year ago
@beethovensheir1234 And the Big Bang theory is the result of evidence. It was formed around the evidence and the universe we live in only makes sense using it. And when physicists say nothing they don't mean absoltely nothing. In fact, many of them say almost nothing. No one knows eactly what happened before the Big Bang. It could have happened by itself or god could have done it, but we do know it did happen.
Atheist616666 1 year ago
@Atheist616666 Evidence? was anyone there? how do they know? scientists have a hard time getting things that happened last week right seriously. . . . I have talked to alot of people (in person, from colleges, universities etc) and have never been presented with a good argument for the Big bang, and by good I mean scientific, testable repeatable etc.
It seems to me that the Big band is not so much as a scientific theory as much as it is a HUGE leap of blind faith.
beethovensheir1234 1 year ago
@beethovensheir1234 This too has been observed. Try looking into Talk Origins. They have more info on the big Bang than i could ever memorize.
Atheist616666 1 year ago
@beethovensheir1234 And just because scientists haven't yet fully figured out what happened before the Big Bang, it doesn't mean that god is more likely than their hypothesi.
Atheist616666 1 year ago
@Atheist616666 haha, sorry dude that is the lamest argument ever. please stop using it seriously haha.
Scientist haven't fully figured it out, then why are they presenting it in schools on tv and such as though it is absolute truth?! not only have they not fully figured it out they have absolutely no way of getting the thing started. To say that you have a book, when all you are holding is a vile of ink, is not only grossly dishonest it is stupid.
beethovensheir1234 1 year ago
@beethovensheir1234 Try to understand my arguement. While scientists don't know what the cause of the Big Bang was, they still know that it happened. First of all, the universe is expanding. This is an observable fact. Since the universe is expanding, logic shows that it would have all started from an small point. Einstein's Theory of General Relativity also predicts that the universe cannot be static. Also the Big Bang theory predicts smething called the Background Microwave Radiation...
Atheist616666 1 year ago
@beethovensheir1234 Hey. Sorry for the late reply. Oh no. I'm not saying the brightest people in the past 2000 years weren't thinking for themselves. I'm saying that I allowed false teachings of christianity to influence my thinking thus creating thoughts of a "god can do anything for me if I just focus on him" thinking.
Since I've rejected this I think for myself and not let an "invisible entity" tell me what to do.
Hope this makes you better understand @beethovensheir1234.
time2learnnow 11 months ago
@beethovensheir1234 Sorry for this rather too late reply. No, I was merely referring to the fact that I was being mind controlled by religion believing anything I was told to believe and to think that the bible is the only way one gets to heaven.
Now I using my brain to make a choice to believe what I'm convinced of.................EVOLUTION!
Does that make sense beethovensheir1234 ?
time2learnnow 9 months ago
Furthermore, the arguement you are using isn't scientific. It's an emotional arguement, which doesn't make a difference in light of evidence.
Atheist616666 1 year ago
@Atheist616666 I second that
time2learnnow 1 year ago
The Big Bang has nothing to do with evolution...
Stop trying to put them together.
Anyway, saying that everything came from "nothing" is more likely than everything coming from God. There are two reasons for this. One because it's unlikely that God exists, and two, becuase when physicists say nothing, the mean something different from nothing, as everyone understands it to be.
Atheist616666 1 year ago
Under what authority do you say it is unlikely that God exsists?
And seriously, everything coming from nothing is more likely than everything coming from God??? have you lost all sense of reason? What else does nothing mean? I kinda always thought it meant nothing.
The Big Bang theory(as a whole)is Irrational, childish, and should NOT be accepted by anyone who is a thinking person. It is a Fairy tale, with no proof or evidence, it is NOT science!
beethovensheir1234 1 year ago
@beethovensheir1234 Well common sense and observation shows that it is unlikely that God exists, but that alone isn't enough to disprove him. And yes everything coming from physical laws is more likely than everything coming from God, because its more likely that something simple like matter and energy always existed rather than something as complex as God.
Atheist616666 1 year ago
@beethovensheir1234 you don't even know what nothing is, ;nothing is NOTHING. when you try to imagine nothing, you're imagine something. maybe you're imagining blackness? or whiteness? or just emptiness. THATS STILL SOMETHING we can't imagine nothing, because it's nothing. so we can't truly understand what or how NOTHING is or works. perhaps out of true NOTHING could come SOMETHING. we don't know, but as far as we know, everything that is SOMETHING is our universe so before was nothing
cabot2jville2010 10 months ago
I see nothing in the bible that proves it is the word of god. There's no mention of anything that wasn't known to everyone in the area. The son of god could have warned mankind about germs for instance and spoken about hygiene he did not. Dinosaurs aren't mentioned,which did exist, evolution is not mentioned which I'm afraid despite the argument has been observed, proven and confirmed many times over. Why couldn't the son of god say one thing to prove to future doubting Thomases who he was?
scotty 1 year ago
@scotty That's interesting? What do you mean dinosaurs aren't mentioned? Do you mean the word "dinosaur" or that the Bible does not describe any massive monstrous animals?
Also, btw, if you don't mind, just to test your understanding, who do you think this passage is talking about? "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement that brought us peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed."
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL 'he was wounded for our transgressions' sounds like they're talking about jesus, if so, I don't see how a person can be born with sin, these are tiny innocent babies that haven't done anything. And that someone, especially an all knowing all loving lord, would want payment in blood for something is pretty barbaric and difficult to swallow. That someone's torture would be necessary payment is outrageous and that generations removed many many yrs later people would be held accountable.
scotty 1 year ago
@scotty I agree. Its about Jesus.That passage is a small part of a larger passage in the Jewish Bible, Isaiah 53. Isaiah 53 predicts coming of the Jewish Messiah, his substitutionary death for the sins of the world, his resurrection from the dead, and the fact that the Jews in general wouldn't receive him. This passage was written 700 years before Jesus came into the world. Its one of hundreds of "Messianic prophecies" found in the Jewish Bible which Jesus fulfilled. The Bible is supernatural.
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL Isn't the 'jewish bible' the old testament? That's the one jesus would have followed right? cause he was a jew. Anyway, if the christian bible was written after that one couldn't the writers have simply known it and tailored their writing to fulfill whatever was prophesied? Why not? They say something's gonna happen and you say okay this is it, the fulfillment of that. So it legitimizes whatever you write and makes it sound important. Those old religions copied one another all over.
scotty 1 year ago
@scotty But here's what's interesting. The prophecies said that the Jews in general would reject him and they did. But not all of them rejected him since the New Testament itself was written by his Jewish followers. So this is what we have: Jews who were so convinced that their friend Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament Messianic prophecies that they worshiped him as God (which if he isnt God would be a violation of the 1st,2nd,and 3rd of the 10 Commandments which they believed God gave them).
itsADieL 1 year ago
@scotty And the reason they were so convinced is because they said that after he was publically killed he literally rose again from the dead 3 days later on the first day of the week, Sunday. This is why they believed he was the Messiah, God in the flesh, and the reason why they, who were Jews, began worshiping on Sunday (which if it wasn't true would be a violation of the 4th Commandment which told them to worship on Saturday). And these eyewitnesses were martyred for their testimony.
itsADieL 1 year ago
@scotty This is what we have coming out of the first century from Jews who were martyred for their testimony: "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty." (Peter) And, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life" (John)
itsADieL 1 year ago
@scotty And, "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once... After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time."(Paul, beheaded for this)
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL You know next to politician 'speak' or rhetoric bible speak or rhetoric is the most mind bending. One easily gets lost in the hypnotic over abundance of ramblings which are anything but simple and direct and seem aimed more at seducing, hypnotizing or clouding one rather than provide illumination. I guess your saying there were lots of eye witnesses to whatever this is so this proves it. I don't know if such a thing holds water today, it sounds like hear say at best.
scotty 1 year ago
@scotty me again sorry for all the typos hope you can make sense of it anyway. About the bible vs the physicists, I see religious minded people using great skepticism when scrutinizing evolution evidence and now since Hawking's new book this issue of quantum physics. I think it's wise to be so we shouldn't swallow whole everything we're told. But I don't see the same thing happening with these people when it comes to scripture. There the mind becomes totally accepting and unquestioning.
scotty 1 year ago
This is a trap laid by delusional people of faith designed to catch sincere truth seekers. Avoid. Don't you feel ashamed using all of these duplicitous tactics? Trying to lure people in under a pretense?
scotty 1 year ago
@scotty What's the pretense? Does the title of the video not match the content?
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL In The Beginning, the video does seem like it's going to be about science, about the strange and fantastic notion that something could indeed come out of what we call nothing. This idea is spoken of in numerous physics books and has been observed to be happening apparently under lab conditions and I was seeking more information on that. Suddenly, the video switches to a religious content and some text comes on the screen about jesus. I felt betrayed, judas. Physicists I believe .
scotty 1 year ago
@scotty Also sorry if you were somehow mislead by what the video would be about. The point of the video is to question the unscientific proposition that "nothing created everything" and to compare such a notion to the divine revelation.
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL 'to question the unscientific proposition' This thing is coming from our leading physicists. It's in several of the most recent books on the matter and is spoken of in key lectures. I prefer to believe our modern physicists in these matters rather than the writings of people we know only in name if that who wrote several thousand yrs ago. You have trouble believing our modern scientists who depend on tested observation and proof of experiment and corroboration?
scotty 1 year ago
If the big bang is everything, how come it exploded in space or in the nothingness? It's just a timeless simulation on a variety of dimensions and situations coming together making E=mc2 an infinite calculation for the ultimate () - this represents what came before Big Bang which is nothing, making nothing = no time = life a situation of timeless cycles. Which means that we can never die.Unless there really is time.Then a new Big Bang will occur. So, maybe this wasn't the first! Who knows?!
Deepmindandheartlife 1 year ago
@Deepmindandheartlife
If it is all eternal and infinite, by my mathematical wizardry I maintain that it is a constant event.
waiotahi52 1 year ago
If the big bang is everything, how come it exploded in space?
Deepmindandheartlife 1 year ago
@Deepmindandheartlife you live on earth in the sun solar system in the milkyway galaxy in the universe wich is amongst other universes an dimentions
sveinn123 1 year ago
Ok so there was a big bang. Got that. But how come everything that came out of it is round, spherical, ball like?
waiotahi52 1 year ago
@waiotahi52 have you never seen an explosion
sveinn123 1 year ago
@sveinn123 Several. I was joking, if it all came into being spontaneously as atomic particles they would eventually come together as orbs, or eventually my left ventricle. Or yours. What is your point? :-)
waiotahi52 1 year ago
I think the universe has always existed and i dont believe in a god. I think we as humans like to put a date on things but time is so vast in the universe.
lilsm555 1 year ago
this vid is stupid and ignorant in sooo many levels...not even kidding
thumbs down at it's best
74gore 1 year ago
I don't think explosion is the right word for the big bang , expansion si better !!
Davidutz91 1 year ago
I think that God and Gods and religions are man made and has evolved with and by humans true the ages, it is an expression of something within the man that is originating from the "nature" who created everything. Gods are what man want God to be, the bible is a fictionary text that has nothing to do with the "nature" who created everything. But I am sure there is an creator but it's not mans God.
matforsbon 1 year ago
Also if you accept a religious text as absolute truth you are nothing more than somebody's tool. Therefore you are by definition a slave and have no fucking say whatsoever because your opinion is already noted in the text of your religious dogma. I have read the whole bible and do not need religious nuts to regurgitate it all over me. Thank You. Any and all replies will be answered and I look forward to a great conversation.
RahRahRaharu 1 year ago
At the end of it all though each one of us must place our faith, roll the dice, and fight to the death over our own convictions. If evolution teaches us anything, it is that those who are right are those left standing. If you as an inquisitive mind want truth it must be physically sought out scientifically tested and then practically applied to go "higher farther and faster"
RahRahRaharu 1 year ago
If this is true god did not create the universe but it would suggest he created both order and, that which we call, life. To say that there is no god is internally foolish. To say what that god is, does, and is like; is even more foolish. But faith is the root of understanding and knowledge. Not faith in a religious sense but faith in what you have chosen to believe. But to deny life is a contest is also very foolish. Someone is right and others are wrong.
RahRahRaharu 1 year ago
Belief in time is the tripping point for this argument. Time is not real what we say is beggining is also what humans call an end. One experiences time as an elapsing of distance travelled. That is by definition a 3 dimensional world with its own governing rules and inherent limitations. So as creationists say god always was can be viewed as accurate. So if that is true for a god, why not the universe as well. I postulate god and the universe are quantum and entangled.
RahRahRaharu 1 year ago
Hawking say Universe was created out of absolutely nothing, but absolutely nothing is also something, something that universe was created from, so absolutely nothing is something. Even absent of everything is something, because you can say and imagine it.
matforsbon 1 year ago
i love how creationists use these theories to "prove" jesus was the son of a god who spoke everything into existence. Science is concrete, man in faullable but searching. Perhaps we arent at the point yet where we can comprehend or find what started the universe, but atleast were trying instead of blindly following a "God" who is all knowing and all powerful yet made us sinners and blames us for sinning. its like building a rocking chair with no legs and cursing it because it wont rock.
autopsy87 1 year ago
God DID NOT create the universe.Religion was created by man.And when man didnt even exist,religion didnt exist.Who knows how we got here or how the universe was created.It all had to start somewhere.
nirvblec16 1 year ago
If nothing can come from nothing, then nothing makes sense. If you conclude that nothing can come from nothing, you have a problem that is unsolvable; like the chicken and the egg. This also disproves intelligent design and every single type of god, because it returns to the question of: Who created this god then?
Mofleaker 1 year ago
The very first sentence is a gigant strawman - I see someone bought the nonsense of Kent Hovind, it sounds like him anyway. "cosmic evolution".. Pfft.
And if you think it´s so impossible for something to come from nothing, I´d really like to know what you think god made the universe out of.. was it... nothing?
What you´re mocking here is in fact you´re very only belief. That god poofed the universe out of.. absolutely nothing.. So good job mocking yourself and strawmanning your "opposition"
Korkzor 1 year ago
@Kor And I apparently cant make sentences right now.. It should be "is a gigantic strawman" and "you´re very own beliefs"
Go learn some actual science from some actual scientists.
If you want to intelligently disagree with something and convince others you are right and they are wrong, you have to demonstrate that you´ve bothered researching it and understanding what you think is wrong first. This video proves you havent. Understanding doesnt mean accepting.. I´d start here; watch?v=wg1fs6vp9Ok
Korkzor 1 year ago
Man continues to theorize about the prime cause of his existence and the prime cause; God is waiting to be discovered by man!
vebnew 1 year ago
Ok, everything needs a cause, so what caused the "god" that caused the big bang? The video is so bullshit from the start and has so many flaws i dont have enough words/time to shoot it all to pieces.
Blueace12345 1 year ago
We never observe something coming from nothing. Should we then conclude that it is impossible for something to come from nothing? That would be absurd since, here we are in a universe that exists, whether you think God did it or not. (unless you feel the universe is eternal, which is OK by me). Likewise, everything we observe has a cause. Should we then conclude its impossible to exist without a cause? No, like the first conclusion. it does not follow that things must have a cause.
estragon9 1 year ago
@estragon9 OK so if you don't form your beliefs based on your observations then on what do you form them?
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL If we observe a thing we can use that as evidence that it exists. If I go to the grand canyon I can confirm that rocks exist. What about rocks that float because they are lighter that air. Well I have never seen one so I could speculate that floating rocks are unlikely. Nevertheless, maybe rocks on another planet might form under the conditions that they are lighter than the air of that planet. I can't absolutely rule them out. You have to be careful with logic.
estragon9 1 year ago
@itsADieL I do use my observations to form my beliefs. Many are not direct of course. I also try to use reason as best I can (although its very tricky and easy to be wrong). I have seen many crows. They are black. So I believe crows are black, ie, its highly probably a crow, if encountered, will be black. Nevertheless, in Japan there is a crow with a white collar. I would have been wrong to conclude all crows are black.
estragon9 1 year ago
@itsADieL Sorry to go on and on, but don't you agree with me? We don't see something coming from nothing, yet we believe God created the universe from nothing. Don't we? Or we believe that there was a finite probability a particle can come into being from nothing. Right?
estragon9 1 year ago
@itsADieL Read the quran..and tell me that a desert dweller was either the most intelligent man to ever walk the face of this beautiful planet, or, all of the scientifical proof and logical explanations are from the creator of this creation. Plus, just because someone hasn't found the truth, does not mean they should listen to the most obscene and completely illegitimate theory to pop in one's bright mind. God gave us a brain for a reason, are you using yours? We dont live this life forever.
PotentPatient 1 year ago
@PotentPatient The Bible condemns the teaching of the Qurans for many reasons one of them being because the Quran posits that God is an abomination. How does it do so? Well, think about this, the Bible says, "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord". Now, the Bible also says that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". In other words, we are all guilty of sin, we are all wicked before God. With that said...
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but to agrue between what the Bible says vs what the Quran says is likened to arguing over who is stronger, Superman or the Incredible Hulk? It's a childish and inane debate to engage in considering the fact that we have as likely a chance of seeing god or allah as we do Clark Kent flying or Bill Bixby turning green. Hypotheticals are fine as long as we don't take them seriously or allow them to create divisive separatist emotions. RIGHT?
aburling7 1 year ago
@PotentPatient according to the Quran, Allah justifies the wicked who repent, leaving their sins unpunished. ie Allah is "an abomination" because he justifies the wicked and leaves their sins unpunished.
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL Ok I understand but you must realize, when someone is brought to the light, nd is revealed the many contradictions the bible possesses, and can actually put aside the taboos and rules of their circumstances, then read the book sent down from the creator, theres no mistake. Thats one of the many reasons most scientist convert to islam.. the proof is in the literature..
PotentPatient 1 year ago
@itsADieL provide proof, being well versed in the bible, surely must have read the Qura'an. However, we have 99 names for Allah, and they the finest linguistically. please research before responding.
cha0t1c1 1 year ago
@itsADieL: I have a couple of videos about the “Big Bang” and “Evolution by Natural Selection” on my channel if you are interested in watching them, because you clearly are completely ignorant of those two concepts.
MarvelsofaLifetime 1 year ago
@itsADieL FYI, God also justifies the wicked and leaves their sins unpunished. Abraham committed sin in his heart when he was willing to kill his son (and don't try "he was just doing what god told him to do" because EVERYONE could use THAT excuse) yet god not only didn't punish him, he promoted him! As many crazy ideas as you can find in the Quran you can find their mirror image in the Bible. The difference is, you LOOK for them in the Quran but JUSTIFY them in the Bible. Think!
aburling7 1 year ago
@aburling7 If you read the Bible you'll see that it is very clear that God leaves no sin unpunished. Not one. Every single wicked thought, word, and deed that has ever been committed will ultimately receive it's just dessert: the wrath of God. Whether it's the sins of Abraham, or Moses, or David, or you, or me. And yet at the same time the Bible is also clear that God will indeed justify some people and grant them eternal life.
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL I know, I know, and if you read Gulliver's Travel's or Lord of the Rings or Moby Dick they all have wonderful, inspirational and often times horrifying stories in them as well. But one doesn't fashion their life around those stories or preach them from the rooftops. It is a sign of delusional obsessiveness when EVERYTHING one hears, thinks or says is considered only through the subjective view of one iron age book. That is absolutely crazy! Can't you see that? Free your mind.
aburling7 1 year ago
@PotentPatient Stop picking and choosing verses that support your point of view. It's NOT ok to claim the quran is full of "science", when that SAME book is also FULL of "scientific errors". Seriously, start using your brain! You also said "all of the scientifical proof and logical explanations are from the creator of this creation" - Are you freaking serious? quran is just another crap book used to control them masses, just like the bible. god didn't give us a brain. He does not exist.
doubleOR1 1 year ago
@PotentPatient just because someone can't UNDERSTAND the truth, does not mean they should listen to the most obscene and completely illegitimate IDEA to pop in one's desert nomad's delusional and ignorant mind.
To believe so diligently in 4th century thinking (w/ NO evidence) over 21st century understanding (w/ droves of knowledge and understanding) is intellectually inept. I bet if you or a loved one developed cancer you would suddenly believe in science. Never forget that.
aburling7 1 year ago
@aburling7 is this a joke? its a proven fact that there are numerous scientifical facts, that were only proven within the past century, in the quran, which may I remind you was revealed over 1400 years ago! do yourself a favor and visit this website - i s l a m r e l i g i o n (dot) c o m - you may just find all of your answers here
PotentPatient 1 year ago
@PotentPatient Why didn't they cure diseases or transplant hearts back then? Because they were ignorant to the medical sciences. So if you read in the Koran that drinking goats milk cures female ministration or that Muhammad ascended to heaven on a winged horse you are equally ignorant (or religiously brain-washed) to choose to believe that over 21st century understanding. There is NO reason outside of emotional attachments and/or fantasy thinking to entertain Biblical or Koranic ideas.
aburling7 1 year ago
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@PotentPatient and you will die god is not real
FIGHTFANNERD3 1 year ago
@estragon9 Actually we do observe something coming from nothing, I recommend reading Stephen Hawking's book for the concrete example(I keep forgetting what it's called (I think they're called virtual particles, but I'm not sure)) as well as sizeable reasons for dismissing the neccessity for a God, not to mention the fact that there is quite a leap from creator God to specific theistic God.
Solensherre 1 year ago
@Solensherre I have heard that particles can spontaneously pop into and out of a complete vacuum. "Before" the big bang there wasn't even space to contain the vacuum. Nevertheless, I am told there is a finite probability for a particle to appear. I think it could be that the tiny bubble that expanded to become our universe, existed eternally. This type of physics is way beyond my understanding though.
estragon9 1 year ago
@estragon9 This kind of physics is beyond me as well, but the little I understand leads me to consider that the universe may spontaneously come into existence unprovoked, and in fact infinitely many have...
Alas, just because I don't understand it fully, does not mean it is fundamentally impossible to understand...
Solensherre 1 year ago
Interesting approach. After establishing that a 1st cause is not necessary, the video continues with an argument goes: You do need a 1st cause, because you just really need it. Further it says things that are eternal don't need a 1st cause because there eternal. This tiny particle that popped into existence, was preceded by eternity, I think we all agree with that. (even using the word preceding is awkward). Then a sudden giant leap to Yaweh. Huh? (oh and nice music)
estragon9 1 year ago
What a pile of Crap.......Sorry but I would rather believe in GOD that what your talking about here. Wake up and give the Bible a chance or just call out to God and HE will answer you.
Yarah777 1 year ago
@Yarah777 a god whom tells you that it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery? a god whom commands the death of homosexuals and disobedient children? death for those who do not follow the priest? a god who expects us to love him through fear and death and sentencing those who simply do not see the evidence for his existence to eternal pain? what kind of god is this, some sort of sadistic and jealous child. and his "logic" in his "laws" and "creations" are very questionable
fullMetaLxMantis 1 year ago
Ok, 5:57 confuses me... he says that saying something came from nothing is not possible... but god (being something), came from nothing? But if he is nothing...then nothing created something...right? So his validation of god is skewed...
Someone help me...my brain is exploding with arguments of semantics!!!
bsedhs 1 year ago
@bsedhs He's making the distinction between something that is eternal and something that has a beginning ie "popped into existence from nothing". God is eternal. He doesn't have a beginning. He didn't "pop into existence" but rather has always existed. The universe on the other hand is not eternal. The universe has a beginning. The Big Bang teaches that the universe popped into existence from nothing (a scientific impossibility).
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL So how come you can just say god is eternal and it's as simple as that? Time could have always existed...which would mean that this in turn could have happened. You can't say god just exists. They doesn't make sense... One thing can just exist, and another can't?
bsedhs 1 year ago
@bsedhs Well for one thing, if time had a beginning then it obviously isn't eternal, right? And that's what the Big Bang teaches, that matter, space, and time had a beginning. But more than that God Himself says that He is eternal. Moreover the Bible says concerning Jesus Christ: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things..."
itsADieL 1 year ago
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f a creator exists, then who or what made him/ her/ it? If we find that this question is unanswerable then why can we not save a step and conclude that the answer to where the universe came from is unanswerable.
Or
if we say that a creator was always there and always will be there, then we can conclude that the universe was always there as well.
DeViliShChild1 1 year ago
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If a creator exists, then who or what made him/ her/ it? If we find that this question is unanswerable then why can we not save a step and conclude that the answer to where the universe came from is unanswerable.
Or
if we say that a creator was always there and always will be there, then we can conclude that the universe was always there as well.
DeViliShChild1 1 year ago
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DeViliShChild1 1 year ago
@EmbraceDorkhood P.S. I also believe that time BEGAN, since the Quran Says in Surah 103:1 that Allah swears by time (as He swears by His other creations). I believe that this state of "non-time" you speak of was eternity and since our universe is within the boundaries of time and constantly under the influence of time, I believe that before there was even a universe there was an eternal being i.e. Quran Surah Al Baqarah 2:255 "The Eternal, the Everlasting..."
tasneefm 1 year ago
@EmbraceDorkhood Well like I said, you can't apply the laws of physics to the Originator of the laws of physics, He is outside of it's boundaries. So what you're saying is that there was gravity before there was any mass having a gravitational field which caused the existence of mass with gravitational fields.. interesting.
tasneefm 1 year ago
Why the hell is this talking about evolution? What has astrophysics got to do with darwinian evolution? TODAY ON THE MISUNDERSTANDING SCIENCE SHOW!
MrShayneOneill 1 year ago
Some people are just mad. Not only do they believe rabbits really pop into existence from nothing, but they also come into being without the magician or the hat.
What prevents us from believing any old absurdity we want? I might as well equally believe there suddenly exists a random horse from nowhere in my living room defecating on my carpet. Why? Because any old thing can come out of nowhere, for no reason, from nothing...
mypolicy9 1 year ago
relying on a god is better for me to live.... when i realize that days when there was nothing in the universe ...BLANK UNIVERSE ... make me made,,,, doesn't make sense too
199hussain 1 year ago
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT MADE ME LAUGH SOOOO FUCKING HARD!!!!!! 3:07
Do you honestly believe that this just happened.. You say this is" logical"???
They teach this in schools.. funny how prophecy is unfolding right before the eyes of man and they choose to ignore it.
TheJjjeeeffffff 1 year ago
Both sides have logical views. As of now, both are nothing but theories, but in the end, only one of them will become true. You can pick your sides, but when an individuals time comes to an end, is when he will know the truth.
Bodywrecker 1 year ago
@Bodywrecker I'm sorry, both sides have logical views? What is 'logical' about a timeless, spaceless, all-powerful entity that lives outside of our plane of existence, creating the highly complex Universe we see all around us?
I think you'd be better acknowledging that one theory is an idea of how the Universe came to be the way we see it, cause unknown, using extrapolated data from observable phenomenon. The other is an obvious fairytale and transparent attempt to shoehorn myth into science.
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 Personally, I do favor Science over faith, because it just simply makes more sense and is well - more logical. But on the other hand, the more answers you find the more questions you create - and this will be an infinite loop. Behind all those answers just leaves room for a deity for those "Believers".
Acknowledge that you said "Theory" and not "Fact" because neither faith nor science has been proven nor will be until your end. Let me rephrase; Both are nothing but theories.
Bodywrecker 1 year ago
@Bodywrecker You're right, the faithful will always find room for their absurd god wherever there is doubt in a theory. That is no reason to acknowledge their POV, though.
Your last statement is misleading; yes, the BB theory is just that, a theory, but it was ascertained through careful measurement and observation of known facts and extrapolating them backwards. It is constantly being refined and improved. The other POV is no theory, it's just a belief based on the words in an old book.
humanfly78 1 year ago
How can you say 'there is nothing irrational about an eternal being'? Where is the rational proof of the eternal being? Because science doesn't have a clear and easy to understand explanation of 'something from nothing' we should then accept an ancient book of myth as true?
35starfish 1 year ago
It has been said that what ever you think you know about the universe is radically different than it's reality. This is fast becoming evident to scientists.
Normal explanatory concepts such as "beginning, end, cause and effect" (while useful in our little microcosm) are quite meaningless when attempting to describe the essential nature of the universe. When space and time are reduced to near zero cause and effect no longer apply.
socksumi 1 year ago
To a scientist, even "nothing" means something. It's been postulated that a state between matter and energy appears as nothing since it doesn't possess the properties of matter or energy. That doesn't mean it is actually nothing in the way we normally define it.
Alternate states of the universe are plausible that do not exist in three dimensions--terms such as a "singularity" or a one or two dimensional existence have been advanced.
socksumi 1 year ago
Nothing from Nothing leaves Nothing...
stymie662 1 year ago
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Hawking attempts to account for why the universe began to exist by appealing to the quantum vacuum, then saying presto! no god required. But on his model the quantum vacuum has a past spacetime boundary--it began to exist!! So Hawking's "explanation" doesn't even come close to answering the question why being rather than nothing.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
both notions of creationism are irrational. creation is not an explanation b/c the mechanism behind it cannot be logically understood. as far as i'm concerned either the universe is eternal, or this whole issue is really just a metaphysical question that we'll never be able to answer.
junior00bacon00chee 1 year ago
1. whatever begins to exist has a cause
2. God does exist as theists always claim.
3. Who the heck caused God to exist ?
4. come back to number 1
5. Then who created the creator of God?
That's so fun, I can go on 4ever!
C'mon ppl. I'd rather believe that I popped out of nothing than trace back that the eternal sequences of invisible creators!
uyenst 1 year ago
@uyenst God didn't "begin" to exist. The Bible says that God is eternal. He has no beginning but the universe does have a beginning: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".
itsADieL 1 year ago
@itsADieL : what he had done before he created the universe? No this is a serious question.
He was preparing hell for Hawking, Dawkins, Darwin, Mark Twain, Einstein, Carl Sagan and then me, I guess
uyenst 1 year ago
@itsADieL Are you for real? "The Bible says..." so what? 'Moby Dick' says "Call me Ishmael". This is not a valid point or argument.
Also, the constant bashing of the Big Bang theory by religious dullards, because there is currently no explanation for the origin of the Universe, is rendered totally moot by saying 'God is eternal, and did not require a beginning'. This implies YOUR theory does not have to abide by the same levels of scrutiny as the theory put forward by the scientific world.
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 Exactly, but our theory isn't paid for by taxes and requires a God which is not physically provable other than maybe on the personal level. So yes, our theory doesn't need to abide by the same levels of scrutiny because it doesn't suggest that it is fact in every child's textbook.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 Er, no, not 'exactly'. The point is, that the religious assert that god does not need a beginning and is not restrained by known physical laws... but this other competing theory IS. It's completely asinine!
You said yourself, "...requires a God which is not physically provable...", so where's the evidence? Let's humour you for one minute, and assume there was no proof for the BB theory at all (which there is), it would still be a more logical theory than 'magic man did it".
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 Magic man did it? That's less logical than a big smiley ball of fire and any other imaginary material you want it to be? That's your belief, but you cannot obtain something from nothing unless someone that is not confined by the rules of this Universe such as a God. The big bang theory is just a separate and almost meaningless description of how scientists think the universe was formed. It has no evidence and doesn't make sense without a creator.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 I was going to let this go, as I don't really have the patience to deal with deliberate ignorance. But, I decided I need to tell you that your 'understanding' of the BB theory is embarrassingly poor, also you have added a layer of extra ignorance by claiming "you cannot obtain something from nothing unless someone that is not confined by the rules of this Universe such as a God"... Really? How do you propose to prove this? Please show your calculations. Logical fallacy, fail.
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 Tell me what part of the Big Bang theory creates matter? Tell me what a God cannot do when out of the realm of universal science? If you don't have the matter to start the Big Bang it's not going to pop out of no where. If it was a swirling ball of dust, where did the dust come from? Who created it?.. being according to our laws of science it couldn't just create itself. I don't need calculations, but you do need to look up which logical fallacy you believe I have committed.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 Ok, last one. Logical fallacy: your assertion that the Universe could ONLY be created by a god. Where's the proof? Why do you ask 'who' created it, why not a 'what'? Also, there was no dust at the moment of the first expansion, just very hot gas and forces like gravity and electromagnetism. You don't need 'matter' to create a universe, as the BB caused matter to exist. Try actually reading something about the BB theory rather than clinging to your bronze-age dogma. I'm out.
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 Last time I checked, gas was matter, maybe I'm wong, but consult your 8th grade science text book before making a statement like that, then later we can move onto more advanced subjects.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 Never said it wasn't. Don't try playing semantics, it doesn't suit you. You asserted matter was necessary for the creation of the universe. I said it wasn't, as this was created at the moment of the BB, INCLUDING gases, but NOT 'dust'.
Troll harder. :)
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 The meaning and definition of matter was important in the context with which you wrote it. It was offensive towards my better judgement of the material with which you made an obvious error yourself. I noticed this large error that made your argument realistic and I pointed it out in order to make your statement less meaningful and to make mine more meaningful. Not sure if you or anyone will ever be able to explain how matter created itself. Emphasis on the word 'created'.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 Again, no. I did not make a mistake; you misunderstood and misinterpreted two separate statements in my previous post.
Why do you insist on sticking to this absurd notion that matter had to 'create' itself in order for the universe to exist? Adding some ever-present being in order to explain how the Universe came to be adds nothing to the argument, and in fact muddies the question even more. Lastly, I use the word 'created' as a convenient synonym for 'started' or 'begun'.
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 I do appologize for the intensity of my response. But when I am attacked (especially with a wrong statement) I usually attack back with similar intensity. If you want to talk this out like mature adults, I will do so. If your going to take blind stabs in the bad, I will probably ignore you. But if you take stabs at me and seemingly know what your talking about, I might just stab back with something more logical. I guess that's just me.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 Apology accepted (but not necessary). I have not made a wrong statement as far as I know, but I am no astrophysicist, so i can only relay a lay understanding of the BB theory as best I can. I also have no particular attachment to the theory, but i completely object to the addition of this absurd notion of a timeless, spaceless being that exists outside of our realm of existence.. but that can somehow directly influence our Universe. Making it unprovable is just so convenient.
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 So let's say the big bang happened by swirling hot gases and dust around and around and around until it formed a ball of dust so vast and so hot that it combusted and slung large balls of dust and hot gas (planets and stars) into the way we see them today. Where did the gas come from? Where did the dust come from?
The pieces to allow the Big Bang to happen, are missing. So maybe it isn't rational to place God did it right there right away, but what do you propose we do?
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 I have a solution. Let's just deny that the universe even exists like Peter Atkins in the video.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 Actually, let's not say that, because, once again, you have misrepresented the theory.
The first tangiable 'stuff' to coalesce from the BB was Hydrogen & Helium (these are still by far the most prevalent elements in the Universe). These gases - eventually - formed the first stars. These stars lived their lives, until, boom - they die; and THAT is where we get our 'dust' and heavier elements from.
I propose we keep piecing the puzzle together, logically. What else?
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 Extrapolation of data can be dangerous and uncalculable from a scientific standpoint of the current day and age. Rather than defending your own viewpoint without analyzing the other, Check out the Book Evolution Exposed. If that book is wrong about it's statements relating to science, then you continue to defend your viewpoint, but until then, you are only seeing your side which is unfair especially when dealing with historical science. If you don't do this then you shouldnt debate.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 Why would I want to read a book about Evolution, when we are talking about the Big Bang? Also, if anyone had a sound reason as to why Evolution was wrong and proposes an alternative, they would be Nobel prize winners and instantly world-famous. I don't have to read every lunatic's crackpot objection to the Theory of Evolution (which is FACT), in order to dismiss them. I need not read a book proposing Goblins are real, in order to affirm that I'm right to doubt their existence.
humanfly78 1 year ago
@humanfly78 The only part of evolution that is fact is micro-evolution. Cosmic, chemical, stellar, abiogenesis, are all forms of belief. Oh, and to top things off, creationists believe in micro-evolution...only they call it adaptation with limits which was what it used to be called.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@itsADieL i hate how people dont use the bible as a credible source. The bible itself existing today is nothing short of a miracle. The way it was carefully written and how everything is woven so perfectly throughout a large period of time is just amazing. The scripture was all god breathed and inspired by god by the writers. God has left us alone since then and look what we have become! what we have left is the holy spirit to connect us to god and jesus christ. Stop using secular way of thinkin
dp100 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
@itsADieL So you believe that ? (: (x
tarzandekat 1 year ago
@itsADieL
If god is eternal and therefor existed long before the universe began, then what did he do before creating the universe?
Did he just sit there staring off into space for an infinite amount of time? Was he creating other failed universes?
Those seven days that it allegedly took to create the universe, what were they counting off from? Did he just select a random day in the course of infinity and start creating?
See, there's some holes in the logic here.
NBluth 1 year ago
@itsADieL Sort of like what happens with the big bang where time itself starts except with more magical space beings?
MrShayneOneill 1 year ago
@itsADieL uyenst already told you you stupid asshole
ill tell you something when i was 6 i met a preist he told me about god and that he made everything that is. Ok i said, then what made god ?
sveinn123 1 year ago
@sveinn123 Actually that's a nonsensical question. God is eternal. What you're asking is: "Who created the Uncreated One?" which doesn't make any sense. The Bible is clear. God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He is.
itsADieL 1 year ago
@uyenst God doesn't rely on the rules/laws that he composed this Earth of, nice try though.
Brandon221144 1 year ago
@Brandon221144 : So Hawking was right when out ruled him out of this world ;)
uyenst 1 year ago
@uyenst You have to understand the concept of eternity. God is eternal, therefore He had no creator.
xUobteXx 1 year ago
@uyenst
You wanna know what created God?
This is what will God tell you:
1. "If you cannot measure the infinite temperature of the Big Bang, then how can you understand?"
2. "You are not prepared"
BansangMalaya 1 year ago
@BansangMalaya
1. My teacher explained the basic things, the details are too much more average ppl.
2. If I'm not prepared I think I should read some more science books to