Naomi Phillips discussing druids (BBC Radio Wiltshire)

[niallobinghe]

You could hardly find a better photograph to illustrate just how smug and arrogant naomi phillips is..bleeeeeerk...

[niallobinghe]

harry911tk; you are making some assumptions here; I am a Druid but not a neopagan, Neither do i 'Hate all scientists', I simply have an issue with those who work for monsanto or the Arms industry; I cound Albert Einstein and James Lovelock amoun my all time Heroes..We all need to ask ourselves 'How can i be part of the solution instead of acting like Ostritches..Weall have immense potential but use a fraction of it; if this does not change, we will bemeasuring our own extinction..

[niallobinghe]

pincherucocolero; you can pass judgments on my intelligence from a few comments? Wow, you are so smart Humanists are symptomatic of what is wrong with humanity; it assumes human concerns take precedent over all else; what i do, i do for ALL lifeforms. as the People of Bolivia are telling the world; all life has the right to exist. A scientist's understanding of the natural world only includes what can be measured, i suppose you believe there is nothing beyond that..If so, that is your loss..

[harry911tk]

@niallobinghe Neo-pagans aren't the only ones who love nature, many humanists, atheists, and scientists are active in environmentalism. Which isn't surprising, since the lack of belief in heaven can make one appreciate our home planet even more.

[pincherucoculero]

@niallobinghe You are confuisng humanism with human-centrism. Also, all humanists are atheists but not all atheists are humanists.

[niallobinghe]

harry911tk; Did you know that more than 55% of u.s. Research Scientists work for

'defense related' Research? Then they go home to middle class suburbia and hug their children after spending all day working on how to vapourise someone else's children..We all know scientists are making a 'safer world' we have P.C.B's, Agent Orange, Dioxins, G.m technolgy..WAKE UP YOU MORON...

[niallobinghe]

BarefootAnthropology; excellent points; The problem with 'Humanists' is that they believe that the needs of science override all other concerns and have no respect for what they term as 'irrational beliefs' when science has suceeded in making our planet uninhabitable for all but the insects then their beliefs will be as worthless as the dust they will become. i am with terry pratchett on what happens to atheists after death; Animists are reincarnated, Atheists are vapourised and cease to exist.

[harry911tk]

@niallobinghe "Atheists are vapourised and cease to exist" You would love that wouldn't you? Your comments are hateful and ignorant. Do you even know what humanists stand for? I recommend you go to the official website of the british humanist association and learn about what it's all about. Humanism has done more for humanity than your pseudo druidry ever will. Also, science is about finding out how our physical universe (nature) works.

[harry911tk]

@niallobinghe Did you know that many atheists are scientific pantheists? No, you probably didn't know that.

[pincherucoculero]

@niallobinghe Scientists study, engineers make stuff. A scientist understanding of the natural world is far greater than yours will ever be. Perhaps that's why you hate them. Also, humanism is all about human rights. Yes, that includes religious freedoms.

[BarefootAnthropology]

@ananiasacts Finally - even putting my beliefs to one side for a moment - why is it that the wishes of the dead should be ignored? I understand that you don't believe they're in a position to care anymore, but the point is that when they were alive, they would have done. Reburying those remains of no scientific worth is a gesture of respect that honours our common humanity. Surely that is something you can appreciate?

[BarefootAnthropology]

@ananiasacts As for your "few superstitious people" remark - when did my human rights cease to be worth anything? You might as well ask why we should bother spending any money on archaeology at all, seeing that it's really just of interest to few nerds(!) You might scoff at that, but far more people are interested in football - why don't we invest all our money in that? The values of intellectual humanists are not universal to all humans - all viewpoints must be considered in these matters.

[BarefootAnthropology]

@ananiasacts I appreciate that paleopathology is developing all the time, and that it is important we don't just rebury bones without bearing the potential for advances in mind. But specimens do exist that are of limited scientific value, not because of the limits of science now, but because the specimens themselves are of a very common type - say, iron age mass graves, or foetal burials. Why bother keeping something we don't need, when it costs time and space to do so?

[ruiseartalcorn]

I think Ms Phillips is missing the point. Druids are not suggesting that we shouldn't have scientific testing - quite the contrary. What we ARE asking, is that when the tests are done, please put them back! If further tests are required, then keep samples. Also, it doesn't matter whether we are actually descended from these people or not - ALL remains should be respected! We are not claiming them as Druid remains - we are merely asking that they be returned to where THEIR people buried them!

[jc7622]

Grave robbers. They do the same things to Native Americans burial sites here.

[polymath7]

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

I can't believe this conversation even had to take place.

[jimthebard]

We are representatives of the Mother.

Our mother is the earth and we are not looking after her right now. The only way she can get better is if we find balance.

The imbalance in the world between men and women has factors to it that are created in the very root of the main religions of the world.

This flows down into the very psyche of society and we end up aggressive, greedy and unhappy.

There is a credible alternative.

Honour the ancestors. Rebury them.

[ananiasacts]

@jimthebard, I think scientific benefits trump the mystical concerns of non-scientists. If you want to heal mother earth do something about factory farms. This just isn't an issue that affects us, our spirituality, our economy, the health of our planet, or anything besides the ignorant theories of magical thinkers. Anything that's 4000+ years old is valuable to us all. We shouldn't throw it away because the feelings of a handful of basically very ignorant people get "injured."

[BarefootAnthropology]

@ananiasacts That isn't the point at all. I'm a druid and I've also worked as an archaeologist. We druids are not campaigning for all remains to be reburied - merely those remains that are demonstrably of limited scientific interest. If they chose to be buried in a particular way, and in a particular fashion - and we say it is our responsibility to honour that as far as possible. I know of rooms full of boxes of bones in Oxford that will never be tested further. Why keep them?

[ananiasacts]

@BarefootAnthropology, how do you know someone won't wish to perform further tests sometime in the future? This seems particularly likely because we're constantly refining and improving the sort of measurements we can make. Reburying these bones simply to appease the warrantless sensibilities of a few superstitious people seems quite wasteful to me. I couldn't care less what sort of magic you believe in. It simply isn't relevant here.

[jimthebard]

That is one of the core elements that connect all the Pagan Paths as we are in essence that which was there before the Age of Pisces. Why do you think the symbol for Jesus is a fish? The next age is the age of Aquarius. That is the age of balance. The Father, the Son and the Holy Mother.

[jimthebard]

As a Druid involved in the process I would like to say that we clearly state that they can keep a portion for scientific testing. And the rest should be reburied. Remember that this was no random burial. The child was buried there for a reason. Before Christianity came along there had been long traditions of Ancestor worship throughout the European world. Fact.

[AlwaysReadTheLabel]

I had a nice post card from English Heritage when I responded to the consultation!

[NigelHilton]

Would the next of kin please come and reclaim them. What, no next of kin? No one?

Druids can go bury their own people and themselves.

[BAJR]

Had Druids on our archaeology forum too..

BAJR... and hey surprise..

they have an unwritten oral tradition (I thought most oral was unwritten) and feel they know best. These are all our ancestors - we have to respect, but we can't bow to a made up religion.. the ancestors were from many periods, and we DON@T KNOW what their religions were.. but they would have been many.. and burial pratices were based on a myriad of possibilities nice discussion thanks

[oliveranthonyrowland]

well done setting up the channel though. Looking forward to more content - and hopefully people finding it :)