Notice how back then we built things which pushed boundaries instead of importing inferior products. APTs top speed - 155. pendolino top speed - 125 why? Modern expresses should be capable of over 200 if progress still exists. Also, we have never built a loco more powerful than Kestrel - 3,300hp from a tin shed? Pathetic!
@thehoff1982 its funny how pendalino can only run on track that the apt-p ran on 30yrs ago because the origional tilt sensors are still there on the track lol otherwise it could run but not tilt. to think with a fraction of what the HS2 line will cost we could have improved 200mph british built apt trains running on standard rail today? polotics has always seen to destroy what this nation creates for the good? why? i agree its al so sad
HS4000 was a 1968 equivalent of the recently-introduced GE Class 70 only being 300 hp more than the latter and weighing two tons less and its a crying shame that BR didn't realise its potential need for forthcoming heavy block trains such as aggregates from Somerset or Port Talbot-Llanwern iron-ore traffic.
haaaa! i was all teary eyed, feeling very nostalgic and emotional when i saw the kestrel and the apt-e - until i saw the onboard 'technology' and nearly spat beer all over my p.c!!! seriously though, kestrel was an utter waste and they gave up on the apt too early.
Richard Marsh. He''s the tosser who closed our line. The Waverley Route. Now they''re rebuilding it. Only 300 million pounds. What a good deal. If only they had left it alone they could have saved some cash. Still, thats politics. Spend someone else''s money.
The reason for this is cause the Press made bad remarks about all the locomotives British Rail made, and wouldn't let British Rail get on with it and test it. I guess your a typical American so proud of your 150MPH Acela Express. Your electric locomotives are no match for our diesels! The HST can match the Acela's speed.
@WaerzMedia09 Until I see a Class 66 leading a 15,000 ton Stack Train up a 3% grade I wont be at all impressed with railroading in the UK. So you guys have better passenger trains...oooh big deal. We would to if the US was half the size of California!
Until I see America upgrade their passenger rail network efficiently I won't be impressed at all with the railways in the USA. So you guys have better freight trains... Oooh, big deal! We would too if the UK was 250 times the size of itself!
@WaerzMedia09 That is a big deal, passengers don't make money, railfreight does. The difference is: a long distance train in Europe is just a commuter train in the US. It's not so easy to convert 140,000 miles of track for highspeed passenger use.
Railfreight may make money, but the passenger network makes just as much. Just because your country is almost 250 times the size of us doesn't mean your rail network is more efficient.
@WaerzMedia09 Shit, I was using the size excuse to explain why the US sucked at passenger rail, then again that could also be because everybody in this country prefer to fly. And BTW, the Acela can do close to 200mph, just traffic and outdated electrification limit it to 150 ;-)
Theres another skint about your rail network. Why should your president invest in upgrading it if no one is going to use it. Thats the opposite in Britain, because lots of people use rail travel but there isn't alot of rail freight. Most of our freight haulage is done by lorries and trucks.
Yea, in Britain our motorways and dual carriageways are always filled with lorries, you see a lot of traffic on them. On the subject of all transport, I don't see the point in air travel in Britain. Yes, you may get there faster, but look at the costs for the airliner (fuel costs, running the aircraft, cleaning). This is one of the reasons our country is in economic ruins.
@WaerzMedia09 The railroads in Britain can successfully compete with the airlines because rail travel times and air travel times are close enough where it's not advantageous to fly. In America it's like that in the northeast like from Boston to New York to D.C and California between Los Angeles and San Diego. But yeah, the economics of air travel all over and certainly in the US has been at an alltime low.
Same with York to London, instead of going to Leeds by train then going to Leeds Intl, I'd rather get an East Coast 91 cause its only 2 hours and its cheaper.
Plus I forgot to add, Australia have the XPT (which is "stolen" from the Class 43 High Speed Train). I remembered this cause I looked on your channel to see that your an Aussie
Of course the "gentlemen of the press" crowded the buffet car for the ( I think ) free booze! Still the HST is certainly the most sucessful of those trains by a very long way!
@itsthatsebguy93 No one wants to breath in your 2nd hand cig smoke OR want there clothes or hair to stink! If you want to kill yourself with these vile things then fill your boots mate.. But I dont really want lung cancer Thanks.
@matsui2001 i think your the small minded one and anyway there was only one carriage you could smoke on so i don't see why you'd have to sit on the smoking carriage unless you're that stubborn an you need to be a chain smoker for like 15 years or more to get cancer and i only have the occasional smoke, you need to chill out have a spot of weed and listen to some jazz and i'm side tacking now aren't i? XD
While we know what an HST sounds like, you can't help rather wishing the funky 60s/70s soundtrack could've let up a bit so we could hear what Kestrel and the APT sounded like a bit more. Anyway, interesting, isn't it, how BR's boffins spent millions and years and years playing with their pet toy the APT, while the engineers just took the existing Mk3 stock, designed power cars for it, and, well, it seems to have worked pretty well, doesn't it.
As an American, I cry at the sound of a machine from the 1970s capable of 150mph when our fastest train reaches it for but a few kilometers of track...
Debatable. HS4000 formed the basis for the Russian TEP70, with over 300 built for express passenger work on the broad guage lines in the former USSR- Russia and Estonia amongst others. The APT... Perhaps the most famed aspects, the tilt and hydrokinetic brakes were a failure, but much of the technology found its way into the class 91s.
The Hydrokinetic brakes froze and the tilt mechanism enabled the members of the press to see their lunch for a second time. You've got to remeber that the APT-P was pushed into service way before it was ready, and it was still only a prototype. HS4000 was not a failure, as said before it formed the basis for the TEP70. Remeber, it was the single most powerful diesel locomotive at the time in the world, in a much more restricted loading guage than that in America, or the Continent...
It's kinda funny the reason the Russians didn't actually make use of Kestrel... namely, that the driver couldn't see out of the front while standing- even today, train drivers in Russia must be stood up while driving. The Siemens Valero (ICE3) design had to be modified for sale to RZD for this reason as well. I'm sure I've read that Kestrel's prime mover was planted in a TEP70 as well, but blowed if I can remember the source.
Thatchers government took power and the political will to continue to project along with publicised breakdowns mean the killing of the APT. 15-20 years later we have Italians claiming they invented the technology and selling it back to us. Fucking travesty! That's 80's government for you.
@AppleOfGlasgow Oh no, that's just 80s British Rail, losing £2,000,000,000 per annum and cocking up everything new they built that wasn't called "Deltic" or "High Speed Train".
Around Easter in 1976 I was at Leicester station on a Midland Region railrover ticket. At around 11.30 am a station announcement was made for everyone to stand back from the platform. Before I could blink the APT came trundling into the station and sat there for about half an hour before disappearing off again presumably to Loughborough or Derby.
It was quite surreal to see it in the flesh, and its front-end shape always reminded me of K9 from Doctor Who!
Amd dig the deltic making an appearance! This is what we used to be able to create - before british enginerring was abandoned and we started buying locomotives from the likes of Canada.
No, Kestrel was built in 1968, at least a year after the last 47s. It had a Sulzer V16 engine, unlike the double-six used in the 47s and Peaks. It ran trials on the East Coast Main Line and on coal trains until 1971, when it was exported to Russia. The reason the design was abandoned was that BR were moving away from mixed-traffic locos to purpose-specific designs, hence the HSTs and 56s which followed. Someone wanted to try ad preserve it, I think around 1995, but it had already been cut up.
@loony45 Absolutely right!!!!! I'm old enough to remember it and they absolutely slaughtered APT day after day then Thatcher pulled the plug some ay that's all she could do..... taxpayers money..................BUT the tilting technology was then sold too FIAT who are now selling trains back to UK operators
I find that jounrnalist world wide are of the same psychological type. If they have NOT seen something before they declare war on it.
Here in Ireland, Dublin is building its first underground rail network and the journalists here are literally in a state of all out warfare against it. Why? Because they never saw a metro in Dublin before. So it must be wrong! Journalists are nature's most worthless scum.
@themarcpearson we lost all info on her due to the cold war. eventually we were told she was scrapped in the late 80's or something and no-one bothered looking into it - turns out she was actually scrapped around 1993 - we could have saved her!
such a shame, we culd have been world leaders, in fact, we were, but this would have been amazing. I think that britains biggest downfall was not re building the infrastrucure in a more sensible way after ww2, as most other countries did. We feel the effects of this today with all these 'major engineeering works' on the west coast mainline.works'
Britians biggest problem with its railways is that its loading gauge is too small. Think about this the bigger the loading gauge the costs of operating a freight operation go down. As well as still using hook and buffer draw gear coupled with 4 wheeled rolling stock. I
Politics, money, lack of ambition. Simple as that. Except...it didn't really die, it was embraced by the Italians and sold back to us as the Pendolino.
they didnt know it then but lucky buggers using the trains that are now rusting away that generations like ourself s would very much like to try 5*****
there was also the falcon which ended up at Ebbw junction to work iron ore from Newport docks to Ebbw Vale steelworks and then was cut up at cashmores in Newport I believe
Kestral never went near the Southern Region, all testing was based out of Derby, which is in the Midlands. Hither Green involved a 201 Hastings Unit, not Kestral.
KESTREL ,Flogged to the Russians, completely stripped and left to rust what a f king waste of money for a fantastic engine like that. B.R (Bloody Ruthless) or what ?
yes, I remember it being touted as the next big thing, set to replace the HST. interest just sort of fizzled out when they couldnt make the suspension work properly. You can't imagine funding for such an adventurous project these days
The APT was never meant to replace to the HST...they were being developed along side each other in the early/mid 70s. The APT its self might not have caught on, but the principle certainly did, and hence we now have Pendo's all over the WCML.
HS4000, or Kesteral was tested by British Rail all through 1969. After this it sat around at the back of a depot for a year, when it was then sold to the USSR in 1971. Its bogies were re-guaged to broad guage and sent to Russia in the same year. It worked in russia until the mid '80s, when it was withdraw. It spent the rest of its life in a russian scrap yard, until being scrapped in Spring 1991.
Shame.. I think it's one of the most beautiful Brittisch diesel I've ever seen. Nice and streamlined. Much better than the quirky appearance of class 25 and 27 or 31 locomotives..
It's Advanced Passenger Train - Experimental. APT-P is Advanced Passenger Train - Prototype. If the APT went into full scale production it would have been the APT-S, for Adavnced Passenger Train - Squadron, although i'm no to sure on this one, as on second thoughts it might have been Service.
I read that the Class 91's we originally going to be called APT-U, but that was abandoned because they didn't want any new train to have an association with the APT failure. What would the U have stood for?
APT-S - Squadron, imagine a 91, Mk4 rake and DVT shaped like an APT-P and you've got an APT-S. Was to be brought into use on the WCML and eventually the ECML. Replying to a previous comment, APTs would have replaced HSTs on major routes (with HSTs going to secondary routes) including the GWML. They've been trying to electrify it for much longer than you think ;).
I've seen the Advanced Passenger Train E (1:03 to 2:29) at the Locomotion museum in Shildon, County Durham that is not far from where I live and entrance to the museum is free. Can anyone tell me what the E in APT-E stands for please?
They said it: HST for the business jet set. Not for the hoy polloy. Maybe that`s why the fares are so bloody high... London to York in a 142 anyone? Thought not.
I don't know quite why the HST was plugged that way in this film, but BR always intended the HST to be a train for everyone. The TGV in France may be faster, but it charges high supplementary fares, runs far less frequently, and reservations are compulsory. Advance purchase tickets here these days are cheap as chips - London to Edinburgh can be done for fourteen quid.
Great video and 3 great locos. Was that a Deltic passing the HST prototype?? Pity Kestrel never, er, got off the ground. It was too heavy for passenger services apparently. Fat birds don't fly...
I didn't know there was another prototype diesel 'Class 47-style' loco!
And what a damn pity that the APT was short-sightedly abandoned by government. We would have had the second-best high speed services in Europe! (TGV in France was entering service in 1978)
Notice how back then we built things which pushed boundaries instead of importing inferior products. APTs top speed - 155. pendolino top speed - 125 why? Modern expresses should be capable of over 200 if progress still exists. Also, we have never built a loco more powerful than Kestrel - 3,300hp from a tin shed? Pathetic!
thehoff1982 2 days ago
@thehoff1982 its funny how pendalino can only run on track that the apt-p ran on 30yrs ago because the origional tilt sensors are still there on the track lol otherwise it could run but not tilt. to think with a fraction of what the HS2 line will cost we could have improved 200mph british built apt trains running on standard rail today? polotics has always seen to destroy what this nation creates for the good? why? i agree its al so sad
ts3830 1 day ago
HS4000 was a 1968 equivalent of the recently-introduced GE Class 70 only being 300 hp more than the latter and weighing two tons less and its a crying shame that BR didn't realise its potential need for forthcoming heavy block trains such as aggregates from Somerset or Port Talbot-Llanwern iron-ore traffic.
sandletters39 5 days ago
a brain a brain ha it just a aws system
papero40 4 months ago
drivers and stokers of the steam days were trained up on these. so the commentator can STFU with his "certainly scratch their heads" crap.
plasticspastic201 5 months ago
@plasticspastic201 You got that right dude.
clusterfak 4 weeks ago
What was the music track called during the APT-E part?
bwhugul 7 months ago
FUCK THE CONSERVATIVES, FUCK EM
promotingsynergy 8 months ago
haaaa! i was all teary eyed, feeling very nostalgic and emotional when i saw the kestrel and the apt-e - until i saw the onboard 'technology' and nearly spat beer all over my p.c!!! seriously though, kestrel was an utter waste and they gave up on the apt too early.
thehoff1982 9 months ago
Richard Marsh. He''s the tosser who closed our line. The Waverley Route. Now they''re rebuilding it. Only 300 million pounds. What a good deal. If only they had left it alone they could have saved some cash. Still, thats politics. Spend someone else''s money.
MrCagivaman 9 months ago
Wow you can see a class 28 cobo at 1:55 That might be the loco thats now being restored on the East Lancs Railway.
dcg12b 9 months ago
love the funky music
Ash928GTR 10 months ago
30 years later they actually have a hgh speed rail
sdfg88 11 months ago
@sdfg88
The reason for this is cause the Press made bad remarks about all the locomotives British Rail made, and wouldn't let British Rail get on with it and test it. I guess your a typical American so proud of your 150MPH Acela Express. Your electric locomotives are no match for our diesels! The HST can match the Acela's speed.
WaerzMedia09 8 months ago
@WaerzMedia09 Until I see a Class 66 leading a 15,000 ton Stack Train up a 3% grade I wont be at all impressed with railroading in the UK. So you guys have better passenger trains...oooh big deal. We would to if the US was half the size of California!
phillyslasher 7 months ago
@phillyslasher
Until I see America upgrade their passenger rail network efficiently I won't be impressed at all with the railways in the USA. So you guys have better freight trains... Oooh, big deal! We would too if the UK was 250 times the size of itself!
WaerzMedia09 7 months ago
@WaerzMedia09 That is a big deal, passengers don't make money, railfreight does. The difference is: a long distance train in Europe is just a commuter train in the US. It's not so easy to convert 140,000 miles of track for highspeed passenger use.
phillyslasher 7 months ago
@phillyslasher
Railfreight may make money, but the passenger network makes just as much. Just because your country is almost 250 times the size of us doesn't mean your rail network is more efficient.
WaerzMedia09 7 months ago
@WaerzMedia09 Shit, I was using the size excuse to explain why the US sucked at passenger rail, then again that could also be because everybody in this country prefer to fly. And BTW, the Acela can do close to 200mph, just traffic and outdated electrification limit it to 150 ;-)
phillyslasher 7 months ago
@phillyslasher
Theres another skint about your rail network. Why should your president invest in upgrading it if no one is going to use it. Thats the opposite in Britain, because lots of people use rail travel but there isn't alot of rail freight. Most of our freight haulage is done by lorries and trucks.
WaerzMedia09 7 months ago
@WaerzMedia09 Maybe that's why everybody in Britain take the train, they cant get anywhere with all those trucks on your highways ;-)
phillyslasher 7 months ago
@phillyslasher
Yea, in Britain our motorways and dual carriageways are always filled with lorries, you see a lot of traffic on them. On the subject of all transport, I don't see the point in air travel in Britain. Yes, you may get there faster, but look at the costs for the airliner (fuel costs, running the aircraft, cleaning). This is one of the reasons our country is in economic ruins.
WaerzMedia09 7 months ago
@WaerzMedia09 The railroads in Britain can successfully compete with the airlines because rail travel times and air travel times are close enough where it's not advantageous to fly. In America it's like that in the northeast like from Boston to New York to D.C and California between Los Angeles and San Diego. But yeah, the economics of air travel all over and certainly in the US has been at an alltime low.
phillyslasher 7 months ago
@WaerzMedia09 Manchester to London by air is slower and more expensive. That is why I always go by Virgin Trains pendo.
fouloleron2002 3 months ago
@fouloleron2002
Same with York to London, instead of going to Leeds by train then going to Leeds Intl, I'd rather get an East Coast 91 cause its only 2 hours and its cheaper.
WaerzMedia09 3 months ago
Comment removed
phillyslasher 7 months ago
@sdfg88
Plus I forgot to add, Australia have the XPT (which is "stolen" from the Class 43 High Speed Train). I remembered this cause I looked on your channel to see that your an Aussie
WaerzMedia09 8 months ago
@WaerzMedia09 our rail system is bollocks - hands down/no questions asked.
yes yes, and we'll get the ashes back off you one day! :-P
sdfg88 8 months ago
Its funny how the APT looks alot like the Voyager with its big mirrory windows. And the prototype HST looks kinda cute with that blunt nose!
jamie514 1 year ago
I wonder what happened to inviting the public to comment on outfitting trains in the uk?
Oh yeah! If they did then the pendolino would have been scrapped.
Terrible seats in a claustrophobic atmosphere.
APT really was miles better!
adelestevens 1 year ago 6
It's says it all about the quality of British Engineering that HST's are still going strong
bluevan12 1 year ago 4
Of course the "gentlemen of the press" crowded the buffet car for the ( I think ) free booze! Still the HST is certainly the most sucessful of those trains by a very long way!
TheWelly888 1 year ago
i miss when you could smoke on trains
itsthatsebguy93 1 year ago
@itsthatsebguy93 WOW You are small minded!
matsui2001 1 year ago
what's your problem man?
itsthatsebguy93 1 year ago
@itsthatsebguy93 No one wants to breath in your 2nd hand cig smoke OR want there clothes or hair to stink! If you want to kill yourself with these vile things then fill your boots mate.. But I dont really want lung cancer Thanks.
matsui2001 1 year ago
@matsui2001 i think your the small minded one and anyway there was only one carriage you could smoke on so i don't see why you'd have to sit on the smoking carriage unless you're that stubborn an you need to be a chain smoker for like 15 years or more to get cancer and i only have the occasional smoke, you need to chill out have a spot of weed and listen to some jazz and i'm side tacking now aren't i? XD
itsthatsebguy93 1 year ago
@matsui2001
I hope you don't drive a car or use any fossil fuels in your daily life. It would make you a terrible hypocrite if you did.
Reichsfuhrer1979 1 year ago
@Reichsfuhrer1979 I drive a car AND use fossil fuels in my daily life. I am therefore a terrible hypocrite! HA HA HA HA HA.
matsui2001 1 year ago
Great video
ipodwindow 1 year ago
awesome video!
TheNitebeatDisco 1 year ago
Is that a Deltic passing the HST at 3:44? wonder which one it was.
mickaka 1 year ago
Comment removed
mickaka 1 year ago
While we know what an HST sounds like, you can't help rather wishing the funky 60s/70s soundtrack could've let up a bit so we could hear what Kestrel and the APT sounded like a bit more. Anyway, interesting, isn't it, how BR's boffins spent millions and years and years playing with their pet toy the APT, while the engineers just took the existing Mk3 stock, designed power cars for it, and, well, it seems to have worked pretty well, doesn't it.
But do they still have Micro Wave Ovens???
AndreiTupolev 1 year ago
The APT-E The train that never was... Such a shame... This was So advanced for its time
matsui2001 1 year ago
In the APT video, the metrovick co-bo in the yard at derby was a surprise. I'd forgotten they had one for a short time.
LordLemsip 1 year ago
As an American, I cry at the sound of a machine from the 1970s capable of 150mph when our fastest train reaches it for but a few kilometers of track...
Excellent selection of newsreels!
Roboboy 1 year ago
Maybe they should have consulted "you, the public" before they designed those bloody awful Voyager contraptions. Barf.
scriltist 1 year ago
@scriltist I cant agree more so many trips from brum to york.... so much standing up time very little anything else
a44468 9 months ago
1:52, old school steam driver or what - he's using a cloth to operate the controls lol!!!
thehoff1982 1 year ago
My god all of these engines look very ahead of their time; some even look more futuristic than today's locos :)
Thanks for the upload; I always wanted to see footage of these engines I heard so much about in action :D
Damocles178 1 year ago
R.I.P Kestrel :( If only it was still preserved
Damocles178 1 year ago
The music for the APT - E part is:
Inter-City 2 by James Clark, from library music provider KPM's album 'Music Pictorial'...number 1096.
It's on my channel if you want a listen!
AppleOfGlasgow 1 year ago
Love how all the junk in the APT is probably the size of a calculator nowadays. The music is also class working on tracking it down.
AppleOfGlasgow 1 year ago
Great vid .... so I have to ask did British Rail ever make those trains viable ???
If anybody knows I would be happy to hear from you.
TrainSpotterX 2 years ago
The HST was a huge success, whereas the APT and HS 4000 were miserable failures.
HSTCalvin 2 years ago
Debatable. HS4000 formed the basis for the Russian TEP70, with over 300 built for express passenger work on the broad guage lines in the former USSR- Russia and Estonia amongst others. The APT... Perhaps the most famed aspects, the tilt and hydrokinetic brakes were a failure, but much of the technology found its way into the class 91s.
DuffBasher 1 year ago 2
I kinda agree with you.
HSTCalvin 1 year ago
The Hydrokinetic brakes froze and the tilt mechanism enabled the members of the press to see their lunch for a second time. You've got to remeber that the APT-P was pushed into service way before it was ready, and it was still only a prototype. HS4000 was not a failure, as said before it formed the basis for the TEP70. Remeber, it was the single most powerful diesel locomotive at the time in the world, in a much more restricted loading guage than that in America, or the Continent...
puziparrot 1 year ago
It's kinda funny the reason the Russians didn't actually make use of Kestrel... namely, that the driver couldn't see out of the front while standing- even today, train drivers in Russia must be stood up while driving. The Siemens Valero (ICE3) design had to be modified for sale to RZD for this reason as well. I'm sure I've read that Kestrel's prime mover was planted in a TEP70 as well, but blowed if I can remember the source.
DuffBasher 1 year ago
Thatchers government took power and the political will to continue to project along with publicised breakdowns mean the killing of the APT. 15-20 years later we have Italians claiming they invented the technology and selling it back to us. Fucking travesty! That's 80's government for you.
AppleOfGlasgow 1 year ago 3
@AppleOfGlasgow Oh no, that's just 80s British Rail, losing £2,000,000,000 per annum and cocking up everything new they built that wasn't called "Deltic" or "High Speed Train".
theredraven 1 year ago
and semaphors
ShaurntheSheep 2 years ago
3:15 nice to see a good old standed BR van
ShaurntheSheep 2 years ago
Thanks for posting this fascinating and important footage.
tul55015 2 years ago
pity they never made it
zicoproudictions 2 years ago
Nice to see the Kestrel in action.
DocSponk 2 years ago
Around Easter in 1976 I was at Leicester station on a Midland Region railrover ticket. At around 11.30 am a station announcement was made for everyone to stand back from the platform. Before I could blink the APT came trundling into the station and sat there for about half an hour before disappearing off again presumably to Loughborough or Derby.
It was quite surreal to see it in the flesh, and its front-end shape always reminded me of K9 from Doctor Who!
xxxChrist 2 years ago 2
@xxxChrist
i can see where you are coming from as well with the nose :)
shame the APT didn't live up to the expectations in service
Xantec 2 years ago
Amd dig the deltic making an appearance! This is what we used to be able to create - before british enginerring was abandoned and we started buying locomotives from the likes of Canada.
Stig5440 2 years ago
No, Kestrel was built in 1968, at least a year after the last 47s. It had a Sulzer V16 engine, unlike the double-six used in the 47s and Peaks. It ran trials on the East Coast Main Line and on coal trains until 1971, when it was exported to Russia. The reason the design was abandoned was that BR were moving away from mixed-traffic locos to purpose-specific designs, hence the HSTs and 56s which followed. Someone wanted to try ad preserve it, I think around 1995, but it had already been cut up.
scriltist 2 years ago
I would have liked to have seen the APT-E and the Prototype HST
cmtrains 2 years ago
have you seen the engine of the prototype in the great hall at the natinal railway muesum?
SNAKEMAN742 2 years ago
Can still remember the first time I saw the HST prototype (i was about 7) it was quite common for a while
Trotsky130 2 years ago
Real Shame......
Killed by the Press... because they couldn't understand the technology... and wouldn't let BR get on with it..!!!!
loony45 2 years ago 22
@loony45 Absolutely right!!!!! I'm old enough to remember it and they absolutely slaughtered APT day after day then Thatcher pulled the plug some ay that's all she could do..... taxpayers money..................BUT the tilting technology was then sold too FIAT who are now selling trains back to UK operators
01chriiss 1 year ago
@loony45
I find that jounrnalist world wide are of the same psychological type. If they have NOT seen something before they declare war on it.
Here in Ireland, Dublin is building its first underground rail network and the journalists here are literally in a state of all out warfare against it. Why? Because they never saw a metro in Dublin before. So it must be wrong! Journalists are nature's most worthless scum.
ThomasSheridanArts 1 year ago 4
got to love the music and the beards in the APT-E bit
ITW84 2 years ago
The proto HST is very reminiscent of the old Midland Pullman sets I thought
ancientoneuk 2 years ago
woo darlington!
and its such a shame the apt didnt work.
i think britains railways are way too behind now :/
Aysome 2 years ago 3
didnt KESTRAL end up in russia?
themarcpearson 2 years ago
Yes
puziparrot 2 years ago
@themarcpearson
though after that, her fate is unknown.
Xantec 1 year ago
@themarcpearson we lost all info on her due to the cold war. eventually we were told she was scrapped in the late 80's or something and no-one bothered looking into it - turns out she was actually scrapped around 1993 - we could have saved her!
thehoff1982 9 months ago
the movies is excellent, thanks you ★★★★★
vladimir2366fa 2 years ago
That APT-E looks so far ahead of its time, I think even today people would turn round and shout WOW when it went past.
PennineProductions 2 years ago
probably one of the most amazing diesels ever
xjabi 2 years ago
It's not diesel, it has gas turbine engines, although the final APT-P was electric.
PennineProductions 2 years ago
ohhhh *fail*
xjabi 2 years ago
apparently they only withdrew the APT'S because they became uncomfortable so instead of improving them they B.R just left them in the storage sidings.
thats where i think BR went wrong but i also think that the APT should be put back into service for another few years.
i don't like the look of the HST though the final version that they came up with though is perfect. great video where did you get it from?
5stars!
cvrmaniac 2 years ago
Oh how i wish the APT had workd.
jamiegoddard4 2 years ago
Did Kestral get under that bridge ! it looked a very close thing.
classicalmick 2 years ago
Anyone get the number of that Deltic @ 3:43? Beast!
zombiesonacid 2 years ago
Very Futuristic, but far to ahead of its time
37401MadRich 2 years ago
such a shame, we culd have been world leaders, in fact, we were, but this would have been amazing. I think that britains biggest downfall was not re building the infrastrucure in a more sensible way after ww2, as most other countries did. We feel the effects of this today with all these 'major engineeering works' on the west coast mainline.works'
billyb4223 2 years ago
@billyb4223
Britians biggest problem with its railways is that its loading gauge is too small. Think about this the bigger the loading gauge the costs of operating a freight operation go down. As well as still using hook and buffer draw gear coupled with 4 wheeled rolling stock. I
gregrudd 1 year ago
That was true with APT
The92002 2 years ago
imo ultimatly it was the cost to upgrade the infrastructure to allow these trains to run at speed
d247257r 2 years ago
What killed the APT?
RapidRPM 2 years ago
Politics, money, lack of ambition. Simple as that. Except...it didn't really die, it was embraced by the Italians and sold back to us as the Pendolino.
Reichsfuhrer1979 2 years ago 4
Is that a fact about the italians? What else can you tell us please?
ledzeplad 2 years ago
i think it was because the tilting system never worked properly... But i may be mistaken
xjabi 2 years ago
Loving that 70's music on the APT-E video....
benracey1 2 years ago
The Class 28 sitting on the RTC at 1:59
okotokspaul 2 years ago
The Class 28 sitting in the background at the RTC at 1:59
okotokspaul 2 years ago
APT-E & The Prototype HST were ugly
intercity 125's much better lookin
Bigfinlach 2 years ago 3
hst-proto: oh i say, kitchen car's will be fitten even with microwave ovens! lol.
very nice films anyway.
class50mad 2 years ago
they didnt know it then but lucky buggers using the trains that are now rusting away that generations like ourself s would very much like to try 5*****
toppackage 2 years ago
so long ago ! Brits rule!.
atreewithnolife 2 years ago
APT music kicks arse, what is it if it's not just a library piece?
PosnocMedia 2 years ago
Its great - squelchy pre acid!
karaloca 2 years ago
Squelchy is a good description. 'Squelchy Neo-Prog'?
SteffanLlwyd 2 years ago
Imagine it dropped on the floor, along with banging train rhythms, now we're talking.
karaloca 2 years ago
Dropped squechy bang-bang uplift groove that bumps. MmmmaaaH! That's soooo gooooD. Emotional Labour!
SteffanLlwyd 2 years ago
there was also the falcon which ended up at Ebbw junction to work iron ore from Newport docks to Ebbw Vale steelworks and then was cut up at cashmores in Newport I believe
T3DSK1 2 years ago
My dad rode the Prototype HST from London Paddington to Bristol in 1973. Super vid 5*
rorymacve 2 years ago
that hawker siddeley kestral was too german looking for my taste
machwebtv 2 years ago
the Kestrel was a killer in 1967 it killed 47 people in the hither green rail crash because of its weight
which broke the rails
thomsonfly645k 2 years ago
Really?
Hither Green - 5 November 1967.
HS4000 Handover - 29th Jan 1968.
50008Thunderer 2 years ago
that is the reason why it was handed over
thomsonfly645k 2 years ago
Kestral never went near the Southern Region, all testing was based out of Derby, which is in the Midlands. Hither Green involved a 201 Hastings Unit, not Kestral.
puziparrot 2 years ago
Thank god the real HST didnt turn out that ugly! Shame the public arent consulted anymore on how trains should be laid out/equipped ect.
soundseeker63 2 years ago 4
2:34 = exellent hehe back when they were the 'cool' crowd =)
Shame about ditching the APT it was a promising design, well replaced nowadays by the widely used 390 "Pendolino" of which i love so much =)
CapenhurstSamuel 2 years ago
KESTREL ,Flogged to the Russians, completely stripped and left to rust what a f king waste of money for a fantastic engine like that. B.R (Bloody Ruthless) or what ?
shineonfloyd 2 years ago 3
Kestrel was the prettiest of the British diesels locomotives.
gguru1 2 years ago 2
It's rather a shame that the APT didn't catch on - it looks like they had high hopes for it.
volvomantom 3 years ago
yes, I remember it being touted as the next big thing, set to replace the HST. interest just sort of fizzled out when they couldnt make the suspension work properly. You can't imagine funding for such an adventurous project these days
mrspivvy 2 years ago
The APT was never meant to replace to the HST...they were being developed along side each other in the early/mid 70s. The APT its self might not have caught on, but the principle certainly did, and hence we now have Pendo's all over the WCML.
soundseeker63 2 years ago
Effectivley we sold the desgn of the ATP-P to the Italians, who some 35 years later, sold us the Pendolino
railwaysafety 2 years ago
LMFAO, I found that extremely funny the way you worded it :D.
It's so so true!
PosnocMedia 2 years ago
heheh - electronic brain
broxboy86 3 years ago
kestrel went to russia in the end , a friend of ours took it there as the project engineer from Brush
wonder where it is now
ramrodtrike 3 years ago
Scrapped in April - May 1991
Trek001 2 years ago
used in service on Ecml from Newcastle to London,Railway museum should have brought it back instead of the dam Jap bullet train
regentv980 3 years ago
buy it,you will get points on your clubcard lol
regentv980 3 years ago 7
every little helps!
Trek001 2 years ago
Almost- Hawker Siddeley built the Trident, the world's first tri-jet aircraft. The Tristar was a much larger airliner built by Lockheed.
jozg44 3 years ago
The Kestrel was a MOTH!!!!
matthewrattigan 3 years ago
@ 1:26 No Hi Vis..... Health & Safety would be having a field day!!
@3:08 Gentleman of the press!!!?? Since when has anyone of the press been a gentleman.
@ 3:44 Heads Out
Microwave ovens hey They are good these days :)
HentisD6569 3 years ago
true enough,the press are rude and arrogant,microwaves were expensive then,good comment
regentv980 3 years ago
"Gentleman of the press!!!?? Since when has anyone of the press been a gentleman."
Yeah, especially when they helped kill the APT. Bastards!!
Splazz 1 year ago 50
lol !
gorn779757 1 year ago
hornby or bachmann should make the apt e and apt to commerate this era for the br
budd2200 3 years ago
Hows the music eh. HAHA
BigAussieBloke69 3 years ago
i thought there were 2 prototype APT's one a gas turbine just APT and the other being electric from the ohl that being the APT-E
billyrootes 3 years ago
Class 55 Deltic at 3:44 .
s7o0a0p 3 years ago
Wouldnt it be great to see it fired up at Shildon,the sound of the gas turbines must of been awsome
31144 3 years ago
Indeed, proberbly let out a mountain of smoke :P.
puziparrot 3 years ago
What happened to the beautifully streamlined diesel-locomotive at the beginning of this movie?
Skoda130 3 years ago
HS4000, or Kesteral was tested by British Rail all through 1969. After this it sat around at the back of a depot for a year, when it was then sold to the USSR in 1971. Its bogies were re-guaged to broad guage and sent to Russia in the same year. It worked in russia until the mid '80s, when it was withdraw. It spent the rest of its life in a russian scrap yard, until being scrapped in Spring 1991.
puziparrot 3 years ago
Shame.. I think it's one of the most beautiful Brittisch diesel I've ever seen. Nice and streamlined. Much better than the quirky appearance of class 25 and 27 or 31 locomotives..
Skoda130 3 years ago
i would like have liked to see one!
bwarrrrk 3 years ago
You still can see the APT-E, it is part of the National Collection and is on display in the NRM overflow at Shildon.
puziparrot 3 years ago
nice!!! shame they stopped the APT-E
bwarrrrk 3 years ago
i think that the "E" in APT-E stands for electric but i'm not sure.
MATTB12543 3 years ago
It's Advanced Passenger Train - Experimental. APT-P is Advanced Passenger Train - Prototype. If the APT went into full scale production it would have been the APT-S, for Adavnced Passenger Train - Squadron, although i'm no to sure on this one, as on second thoughts it might have been Service.
puziparrot 3 years ago
I read that the Class 91's we originally going to be called APT-U, but that was abandoned because they didn't want any new train to have an association with the APT failure. What would the U have stood for?
robthemod58 2 years ago
APT naming is as follows:
APT-E - Experimental
APT-P - Prototype
APT-S - Squadron, imagine a 91, Mk4 rake and DVT shaped like an APT-P and you've got an APT-S. Was to be brought into use on the WCML and eventually the ECML. Replying to a previous comment, APTs would have replaced HSTs on major routes (with HSTs going to secondary routes) including the GWML. They've been trying to electrify it for much longer than you think ;).
puziparrot 2 years ago
Would have been an amazing sight to see if it had seen expression. But in your mind, what would the U in APT-U have stood for?
robthemod58 2 years ago
I'm unsure, although the naming shceme above is the only one i know of.
puziparrot 2 years ago
Nope,it stood for Experiment
31144 3 years ago
Experimental or Experiment, we could argue for ever. Which ever one is correct its closer than Electric ;P.
puziparrot 3 years ago
I've seen the Advanced Passenger Train E (1:03 to 2:29) at the Locomotion museum in Shildon, County Durham that is not far from where I live and entrance to the museum is free. Can anyone tell me what the E in APT-E stands for please?
RapidRPM 3 years ago
Adavnced Passenger Train - Experimental
puziparrot 3 years ago
Kestrel was an absolute beauty.
deeb1978 3 years ago
i want one!
Victorialine67 3 years ago
given to the russians to be gutted and scrapped
ancalites 3 years ago
Kestrel was really too far ahead of it's time in many ways
bluebellnutter 3 years ago
woooo deltic 3:45. good vid.
2TEG 3 years ago
Kitchens mircowaves automatic doors!!! It seems we have lost track in the last 4 decades.
Dutchdrummer99 3 years ago
They said it: HST for the business jet set. Not for the hoy polloy. Maybe that`s why the fares are so bloody high... London to York in a 142 anyone? Thought not.
vampyminx 3 years ago
I don't know quite why the HST was plugged that way in this film, but BR always intended the HST to be a train for everyone. The TGV in France may be faster, but it charges high supplementary fares, runs far less frequently, and reservations are compulsory. Advance purchase tickets here these days are cheap as chips - London to Edinburgh can be done for fourteen quid.
undergroundsplee 3 years ago
the kestrel cab looks like a plane cockpit!
D6769 3 years ago
Great video and 3 great locos. Was that a Deltic passing the HST prototype?? Pity Kestrel never, er, got off the ground. It was too heavy for passenger services apparently. Fat birds don't fly...
bgarside 3 years ago
yeah hawker-sidley didnt just make great bombers
they made great power units aswell
ITW84 3 years ago
Ha-Ha love the way the old hand APT-E driver applies the power at 1:54 complete with cloth in hand.....
nevwhile 3 years ago
I didn't know there was another prototype diesel 'Class 47-style' loco!
And what a damn pity that the APT was short-sightedly abandoned by government. We would have had the second-best high speed services in Europe! (TGV in France was entering service in 1978)
bwhugul 3 years ago
On the Prototype HST, is the coach second from the front a MK1?
nyallrudge 3 years ago
Yeah, I don't think they had got round to making the buffet car yet.
TukayAway 3 years ago