@TheRockerInside ahem... the religious aspects are things like miracles and other forms of divine intervention (unlike historically accurate descriptions of cities and kings)
and I believe Aristotle died before 300 BC, and wasn't actually a historian....
again, I respect that you believe that the bible is "holy" and accurate, and these are qualities that require the god you believe in, just don't claim it's an undeniable fact...
@TheRockerInside I was referring to the religious aspects of the bible, not the historical stuff with other sources (anf by the way, having been dead for more than 300 years and not actually being a historian would probably exclude Aristotle)....
"it's God's word" is not a fact, that is your opinion, that is what you believe in, and your faith is just that, and NOT a fact...
the importance and nature of the rules is different to each christian sect/denomination...
@TheRockerInside well, the christian "logic" of people saying something and other people writing it down = fact, that is just absurd....
I don't actually hate religious people, but when you claim that what you believe in is the universal truth, and that everyone must join you and live under your rules or burn in a fiery pit of doom for all eternity, that just pisses me off....
@TheRockerInside I promised myself I wouldn't bother answering things like this, but I guess I just gave in to the temptation of telling you that simply stating you're opinion as fact does not make it true, and that when you can't prove something false, that doesn't make it right...
if it did, all religions would be equally true, including the teachings of Bænk Ebider....
All of you posting about "evolution" first of all, keep your CRAP to yourselves. I'm tired of you all making up stupid and unsensible things just to try to prove that there isn't a God. Well, newsflash, theres evidence of Him too, so shutup and keep your opinions to yourselves. THANKS
If you people don't believe in Jesus..why are you listening to music that praises him? I know he's real and will always know that. I didn't come from monkeys..I was made in the image of God. Evolution is not real. God is. Just saying. :)
I had to compare this song - tobyMac or the Newsboys. I discovered that I love tobymac's version a million times better! How did I know that was coming!? I love tobyMac's music soooooo much. It helps a lot, and it is just, amazzing. In the end, I do not care if someone knows I am a Jesus Freak! I love you, Jesus!
@dannysgirl133 Because onion1335114 is right, and so are you. This song was originally done by dcTalk, of which tobyMac was a member. This is the dc version, there have also been versions done by Toby as a solo artist and more recently by the reformed Newsboys, whose frontman is Michael Tait, a former dcTalk member.
@lethalbro11 your in the wrong church. If they don't teach the bible chapter, by chapter and verse, by verse your not being taught. I'm not going to judge you though, you do what feels right for you.
@delphinamw No, this IS tobyMac. DC Talk does this song, too.. I'm a tobyMac mega fan. This is DEFINITELY tobyMac.. If you listen to the voice, you can definitely tell!
@delphinamw Hey uh, Toby Mac was in the band DC Talk. So this is DC Talk, but Toby singing, cause he was in the band...just fyi. Idk if you knew that or not, maybe you did. But yeah. :)
i just prayed to god the hardest and longest i have ever prayed, i asked him to bring my family back together and bring my girl back to me, and right when i got done, she called me and told me she loved me , and my parents song came on "check yes or no" i thank god for everything in my life, this just happened, im not askin for thumbs up, im just lettin everybody know he IS real and he helps us all in everyday miracles , thank you god for everything you do
@Tayler1352 Yes he is, they are technically TobyMac and the Diverse City band. I've seen them in concert four times now and they do great. and I'm a little obsessed too so don't worry ;) I heard that DC Talk is regrouping to do a 2011 tour though
God gave us a choice in everything. So with a choice comes a outcome/consequence. Always. So God can remove evil and everything from this world. But if He did we wouldn't have a choice, we wouldn't learn from our mistakes because everything would be so peachy. Life wouldn't be valued. It'd be a walk in on the beach. Life has to be tough, it has to teach us that we NEED God. God never said life would be easy, but He did say we'd never have to go through it alone. We'll always have Him.
@kenzk96 If you go around and ask people if they believe in God and they say no, how are you ever going to get them to believe if you don't argue a little bit?
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations now. - Matthew 28:18
@hannaha777 Really? I was pretty sure he was still part of Diverse City since I last saw him live (in September) he even said he was still a part of Diverse City. Im pretty sure he is still apart of it depending on the time he broke off. Oh crap sorry I thought you just said DC not DC talk. I feel retarded now lol. Sorry!
@immamonsta1 Nothing was ever said about TobyMac not being in DC Talk. The song just needs to be listed under the group that made it so it so there is no confusion between the group that TobyMac is with now and DC Talk is all.
If loving God was a crime, I'd be an outlaw! I'm a rebel with a cause, Jesus Christ! I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak! I am what I am! :)
even though I think christianity is responsible for a lot of the suffering in the world, even someone like me who would probably get lynched in certain parts of America can appreciate this music, it reminds of the Offspring in a nostalgic way...
@firefighterENG32 I wasn't being that black and white about it, I am merely stating the fact that violence and brainwashing has so far been a fundamental part of christianity....
@firefighterENG32 I assume you mean christians today, and not in a historical context, since I assume even you wouldn't deny the great historical crimes of christianity....
well, the violence seems to be reserved for the more obscure sects/denominations (and the occasional lone crazy person) and the rhetoric of some politicians claiming that "God" is on the side of whatever war they are currently supporting...
and the brainwashing part should be pretty obvious...
@JugglerOfWords You might be putting too much of that weight on Christianity itself. Christians in general never said "Now we shall hunt down the nonbelievers and burn them,", there were just some stupid people who said that. If someone used ToyStory as an excuse to stab anyone who purposely broke one of their toys, for example, I wouldn't just say that ToyStory (or everyone who is a fan of it) is responsible. It's one of those "guns don't kill people" kind of things.
@WolfVenom1 yes, the "just a few rotten apples" theory...
I remain sceptic about that, simply because of the scale of the violence, and there seem to be some going on even our time when we are all civilised people...
I am referring to the modern day witchhunts in western Africa, I think it's the Pentecostal church (or whatever it's called) that seems to condone the mental and physical torture of children...
anyway, we can always argue about the scale of the evil within your own ranks, and...
...probably also if any valuable philosophy within christianity even remains after 2000 years, but the fact remains that those that do all these evil things in the name of your god should be dealt with...
@JugglerOfWords But you make it sound as if there were a club of some sort, and that every member is responsible for. one another. By the sheer volume of religious individuals that the population is comprised of, it's inevitable that many of the more oppressive groups fall into religious criteria as well.
By your logic, I could run into 8 thugs on the street of whom 7 were atheists and be able to state and justify that, percentage-wise, atheists are violent goons.
@WolfVenom1 I can't seem to find the point where I claim you are responsible for the actions of your fellow christians, but I still think that despite our different opinions about the scale of the problems, we can both agree that you need to deal with these "rotten apples" that are being "violent goons" in the name of your god...
it's basically the same problem football clubs and some left-wing groups are facing, getting rid of the hooligans...
@JugglerOfWords You are what people call a troll. You say stupid comments knowing that it is gonna spark a fight with some. Example being posting anti semitic stuff on a video for a christian band. Do us a favor and shut the hell up.
I see points in your arguments. Many people who claim to be Christians do horrible things, and they ruin the public eye of our motivations. Those people, the hypocrites, are doing the exact opposite of what our Lord Jesus came to earth to show us. He healed people, including one of his crusifiers as they got his ear cut off, and a few of us have the whole "If your not one of us go to Hell" attitudes. These people, are very wrong. Either way, I am a Jesus Freak here to debate
Jesus showed us to love others and to 'make disciples' however we decided that killing people would rid the world of Gods enemys! Well, God doesnt HAVE any. We killed the people he loves because they dont fit into our standards, and that is why I find myself arguing against fellow Christians more often then any other religion. If one is a true Christian they should devote their life to helping others, those people who use their life for evil and hurt those who need love are not.
@JugglerOfWords Debates can also work in more parties than just two points. If you'd like, I can also argue the points of Islam and Buddhism to you. If you want to argue about religious concepts, go ahead and start, I'm confident I can counter most, if not all of your points.
@JugglerOfWords I figured you'd make this point, God being almighty but not doing anything to fix all the problems of the world. The world, as you have just clearly stated, is damaged and breaking apart. This was caused by the choices of Satan, who defied God's instructions and convinced humans to disobey Him. This broke the original bond between God and humans. Imagine how quickly light makes dark retreat, there is no fight: the darkness just vanishes. We all have darkness in our hearts.
@LlamaGurlPc Read it again, my points are clear. Quote: "Until we accept His one loophole in His judgment of evil, we are the darkness against the light." basically says we are the dark, if God is as claimed, He will not destroy us because He is love itself and wants to save us. Since the darkness cannot fight the light, and He wants us to be the light too, He will not do so until almost everyone is saved.
@milifreak20 interesting point, but if we are to truly believe that God is both an omnipotent and benevolent being, then he should be able to cure that darkness without destroying us, and since that doesn't happen, it would seem more likely that God in the almighty version is non-existent, and that God is instead a divine father figure who's powers are limited by the existence of evil...
@JugglerOfWords God doesn't want to mess with free will. Imagine how uninteresting life would be if everyone was exactly the same- there would be no excitement or diversity. To destroy the darkness without our consent would be to make us all the same. Do you really think that any being who would create all the different things in the universe would enjoy it if everything acted the same way all it's brethren did? That would be the most boring universe ever.
@milifreak20 I have never really understood how it's a choice between doing nothing, and completely removing all suffering, including every single minor inconvenience, thus making us all somehow act the same...
if God is really who you say he is, then he should be able to do something in between, like maybe removing what I would call pure evil, but without removing the whole concept of pain...
@JugglerOfWords You must realize of course that some suffering is self inflicted, such as whittling and accidentally cutting yourself, or trying to fix an outlet and getting yourself shocked. In the permanent fixing of these problems, we would be completely incapable of doing anything interesting because of the risk of suffering an injury. In effect, we'd just be able to lie around because of the risk of suffering soreness or injury from too much movement.
@milifreak20 Indeed, but that doesn't explain torture and sadistic murderers, which would be in the non-self inflicted category of suffering...
God could at least deal with that, but he doesn't....
I believe pain can be useful (to a certain degree) in such diverse things as MMA (there's a good example in one of the Ultimate Fighter finales (but I forgot which season)) and writing poetry, and it's a natural part of being human, but torture isn't, so why does that still exist?
@JugglerOfWords Because the devil exists. God will defeat the devil eventually. He just hasn't yet because He's waiting for all His children to be saved. He's waiting for the right time. Only He knows when that time is. But you can't blame God for all the bad things in the world. He only let's them come about because He lets people chose. And yeah it sucks for whoever is innocent and gets hurt. But I'm sure God always has His way of making it up to them in the end.
"And yeah it sucks for whoever is innocent and gets hurt. But I'm sure God always has His way of making it up to them in the end."
this still seems like a slap in the face of innocent people currently being tortured or otherwise being in pain, and the fact that God doesn't help those people right now is enough reason to believe that this is against the very nature of God (according to christians) and that he therefore doesn't exist
@JugglerOfWords You can't just take one piece of what I said. You have to read it all. God said this life would be full of suffering, but we wouldn't have to face it alone. Everyone suffers in some way. Every single person does/has/will. And no one is totally innocent. Everyone has sinned and everyone falls short of the glory of God. So I didn't slap anyone in the face. I suffer for my faith, maybe not being physically hurt. But emotionally I do. All hurt is hurt. No matter what form it comes in
@illBaJesusFreak4Life let me know if I'm totally misunderstanding something here, since everyone is a sinner, people who are raped and tortured despite doing absolutely nothing to deserve it will not recieve any help from God, even if they believe in him and constantly pray to him...
@JugglerOfWords It's really hard to explain. Especially through just typing. And I know I don't do a very good job of it explaining...but still. Everyone has hardships. There are people who cut themselves, get raped, and all sorts of awful things. But God never leaves them through it all. He may not stop it. But He never leaves the person. And He's always there to pick them back up. God's own Son was mocked and nailed to a cross!! But God never left Him. Jesus could have gotten off that cross.
@JugglerOfWords But He didn't. He suffered for us. Because He loves us. So no matter what we go through, no matter how awful, He's there, and He loves us. And no matter how hard it is, we have to remember that. And in God's eyes every sin is the same. So there is no one who, doesn't "deserve" anything. We deserve so much more than we actually get. So in His eyes, no one is better than anyone else. So everyone deserves death. But Jesus paid the price. The spotless lamb, died, for us.
@illBaJesusFreak4Life let me see if I can wrap my mind around this, if we assume that a person can either deserve or not deserve something, and nobody doesn't deserve anything, then we all deserve the things we go through, which would include rape and torture....
I hope coming from a non-english speaking country is causing me to misunderstand something here....
and you mentioned that God will observe all these awful things, and not stop them, even though he can, since he's allmighty, so...
@JugglerOfWords Let's see if I can clear up your confusion a little bit.
If we had a justice system that called for imprisonment of the slightest cruelty, everyone would be in jail. It's something that happens when people are angry or arrogant, they'll do something mean or wrong. But put that in terms of most religious views, those actions mean death and torture. So we should all be tortured for doing evil things because we all do such things.
@JugglerOfWords However, Christianity is the only religion in existence which offers redemption for the evils by grace as a gift rather than forcing everyone to try to be perfect. Jesus offers to take the punishment, and all He asks us is to have faith in Him and tell others about His gift to us all- which is His offer to take our punishment.
But there are also the people who refuse to believe in such a promise because they see no need for it. These people are the most effected by true faith.
@milifreak20 In essence, the only way to convince some people that such a promise can be true is for them to witness the unshakable faith of people who are tortured. If someone is a very strong believer and they get raped, it will be for a bigger and better reason. Such as: they will meet someone who experienced the same thing but has no faith. Because they also experienced it, it will create a bond of faith between the two, and that will spread to more and more people.
@milifreak20 This gives the people with no faith hope that there is something that can be done to finish their suffering permanently. It gives people faith that God has to be out there, no one could be so deluded that they experience something such as rape and still believe that God will always come to help them. Would you believe after such an event unless you were entirely certain of God's existence?
There is a famous saying about karma, and it is quite true. "What goes around comes around."
@milifreak20 my brain is starting to melt here, it seems you justify any lack of interaction from God (who I assume you believe is a benevolent and omnipotent being) by stating that everyone deserves what they get, which doesn't make sense, and which I know from personal experience (I will not go into details, but it involves rape and murder)...
it seems you try to insert order (God) into chaos (life, with all the pain and suffering it may contain) to give yourself peace of mind....
@JugglerOfWords It might make more sense if I say this: Everyone has stolen something. Everyone has lied. Everyone has shown others cruelty in some manner. Everyone has been evil in some way. There is no arguing with that, it's just a fact. But these evils always have a chain of reaction. I'll assume you are familiar with chess, and you probably know that some things are only done with sacrifice. It is the same with life- something must be sacrificed at some point in time.
@JugglerOfWords In some cases, these sacrifices include suffering, like if you sacrifice your queen in a chess game, you lose a very powerful piece, but if it allows you to achieve check-mate it's worth it. In the same way, if we suffer, it can help us achieve something greater if we use it in the right way. I myself take the fact that I have almost died seven times in my life from things usually considered extremely lethal. That reinforces my belief that God is protecting me.
@JugglerOfWords I have no feeling in my right hand except with enough heat to boil water. My eyes are likely to completely degenerate by the time I'm thirty. These aren't exactly good things, but I can use them to prove that God is real. For instance, do you know what the probability is for the eyes to have created themselves? Do you know how complex the systems are in the nervous system?
@JugglerOfWords I cannot feel anything with my right hand and it is likely my eyes will fully degenerate by the time I'm 25- less than a decade from now. These aren't exactly good things. But look at what they are attached to. The eye is very complex, and the nervous system is extremely advanced for such primitive bodies. Our body is designed more complexly than a supercomputer. But supercomputers didn't just pop into existence, we made them. In the same way, God made us, we didn't just pop up.
@JugglerOfWords What would life be for if there wasn't a bigger reason behind everything that we experience? Life is pointless. If all we are here for is to survive, then ultimately we will fail because everyone will die. We will have struggled and suffered the natural course of life for nothing. If there is a reason behind everything, but it isn't God, then what is it?
it seems that christians in general can only imagine things being created instantaneously, and are not able to comprehend things evolving over millions of years, as with the case of the human eye, who went from maybe a few light sensitive cells on some sea-dwelling creature to what is today....
and I do not understand your need to have a reason behind everything...
making sense is often something you have to do yourself, giving meaning to life is a human thing...
@JugglerOfWords Oh, it'd be no problem to believe in such a thing if I thought it was true. Unfortunately, evolution is illogical. In order to have everything evolve from one thing, that means they'd all have to be related. So tell me, if that is the case, why on earth do plants allow us and other animals to eat them and use them for shelter? Don't you think they'd have evolved enough by now to be run away from predators like everything else?
@milifreak20 I think you're misunderstanding something here about evolution, no memory of being related to the same primitive organism is retained by plants, but most creatures seem to have some sort of defense mechanism, and if they don't, they'll very slowly adapt to whatever is killing them, in order to survive, which is probably what that whole "survival of the fittest" is about...
@JugglerOfWords I misunderstand nothing. I know the majority of how evolution works, having once believed it myself. But I'd like you to look at the beginnings of evolution. I find it highly unlikely that the matter of the universe disobeyed the laws of the universe. Nothing creating everything is pretty hard to believe. Especially if you look at the precision of it all. The odds of such precise equations to life being able to exist are astronomical, something had to make it.
@JugglerOfWords Add that on to the "survival of the fittest", I believe that humans would be "devolving" in this case, since we have more and more people getting overweight, using drugs/alcohol, and getting diseases that are supposedly incurable. I would think that we'd be above such things by now, if we really have been here millions of years. I'd also like to point out that if you follow the track of human population, it appears to have started within the last 5000 years, not millions.
@milifreak20 regarding how things started (which doesn't really interest me that much), I simply prefer any scientific theory instead of simply saying "God did it"....
evolution is a biological process, and the things you mention seem to be mostly about a kind of "moral decay"...
and about tracking the human population, I assume you mean modern humans (and don't include Homo Erectus and our more distant cousins) which are older than that, as is the case with the Mladec bones...
@JugglerOfWords The scientific theory includes testing hypothesis and observation of the test in progress, not just the speculation of something happening in the past. Since the evolution of things from one species to another is impossible to create in a lab, it is only speculation. This is why some people view the evolutionary theory to be a religion, it's not observable. Humanity cannot understand something so strange as a God. Reading the Bible might help, but we still won't fully understand.
@milifreak20 "Since the evolution of things from one species to another is impossible to create in a lab, it is only speculation."...
I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than that, science has never been confined to a lab, and the thing about labeling it a religion is just plain ridiculous...
scientific truth is different from religious truth since it can be changed if new information is found, unlike in religion where whatever your holy book says is true no matter what migth happen...
@JugglerOfWords The first result of looking up the definition of a religion is: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
And another is: something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience
@MultiMasterjake If I interpret what you said properly, then my response is this:
I am pointing out the fact that evolution is a religion just as much as Christianity because in order to believe it one must be devoted to follow it. It also has the code of ethics which is commonly referred to as "survival of the fittest". Following evolution, you do what you want so long as you survive it. That makes it a religion, as it follows the definitions I stated earlier.
@milifreak20 I still think you're being a little too eager in labeling a scientific theory like evolution, a religion, so let me try to mention a few things that are not found within evolution:
a creator
anything supernatural
commandments, and other rules of human behavior
rituals, sacraments, hymns
worship
a code of ethics ("survival of the fittest" a merely a description of how nature seems to behave)
Evolution may seem to have no creator, but it does. Nothingness is your creator. Nothing created everything, according to quite a few people who believe evolution anyway. That would make nothingness a creator, wouldn't it?
Nothing supernatural? Don't you think it'd be supernatural to have a small dot of nothing that suddenly explodes into all the matter required for everything to develop? I'm fairly certain that's the "Big Bang Theory".
@JugglerOfWords Rules of behavior, follow your instinct and serve yourself so that you might survive while others don't. Or at least, that's the impression I get from people who odevotedly support evolution.
Rituals: try very hard to tear down religions in general, but mostly Christianity which seems to be the only really big one to bother evolutionists.
Worship: Yourself. Following your own rules and doing what you want makes you the "god" of your own little universe.
@JugglerOfWords A code of ethics will be whatever you want it to be. Once again, this makes you the "god" of your own universe since you can decide what you think is good or bad.
It seems to me that evolution is at least very close to a religion, if not actually being one.
@milifreak20 well, the whole thing about what actually caused the big bang and thus created the universe is not something evolution deals with, and it's not really scientific make any claims about who or what is the creator (that is, if there even is a creator)...
rules of behavior?...
you're quite wrong here, nobody is telling anybody to behave in a certain way...
rituals?...
you're describing the behavior of certain individuals, not an actual ritual...
@JugglerOfWords If the Big Bang Theory does not explain the beginning of the universe for evolution, then please tell me what does so I can update my knowledge.
I never said that someone told people to do that, but that they seem to believe that's what the rules are.
If certain individuals includes every evolutionist I've met, then yes, it is just certain individuals who follow this apparent ritual.
I believe a Church of Satan worships Satan, not yourself.
@milifreak20 as far as I know, how the universe began is something we cannot know or explain, I choose to accept that, while you read a book and say "God did it"...
OK, point taken...
I would call that behavior a "habit" and not an actual ritual, which I always thought involved some kind of formalised ceremony...
when referring to the "Church of Satan" that Anton Lavey started in the 60's, you're wrong, they're just a kind of atheistic philosophy...
@milifreak20 "Christianity was made by God" is a matter of faith and cannot logically be stated as fact, and I refuse to answer this absurd rhetorical question...
@JugglerOfWords As I have said before, it is a difficult thing to explain. It is clear that I will not be able to change your mind, but I can tell you that I believe completely and fully in God. I recommend you read the book Ecclesiastes, it'll explain better than I could why believe in God is the only thing that really makes any sense in the world. Perhaps, if you are willing, I can take you through some books of the Bible explaining it, but it would take individuals messages, not comments.
@milifreak20 perhaps it is time to declare our little debate a draw then....
I am reminded of something this lady said to me in kindergarden back in the 80's: "God exist for those who believe in him", and I simply don't, nor do I have a need to believe...
@JugglerOfWords Certainly it would seem so. But that is mostly because neither of us will believe in the others philosophy. I once believed I didn't need God either, but I know now that everyone does, they will just refuse it.
If you ever feel curious about it again, I suggest you study the Bible yourself for the best results.
I suppose I too must say farewell, since I no longer have much of a reason to leave comments.
and by the way, your way of thinking about evolution reminds me of an old danish proverb that roughly translates to: "a thief thinks every man steals" (no offense)
This has been flagged as spam show
Merry Christmas Gift 2011
YouTube link: pamelaelaine7
Song Title: Savior of the World
Artist: Pamela Elaine Lockridge
Pamelaelaine7 2 months ago
Praise God!!!!!!!!
VaNeSsaJ98 2 months ago
Comment removed
VaNeSsaJ98 2 months ago
did u know that Charles Darwin is dead!, but right before he died he believed in God....funny isn't it?
tlealgirl 2 months ago
thumbs up if WMG is gay
Jemis5 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
jesus christ died for our senses which is a undeniable fact.
bobrusable 3 months ago
@TheRockerInside ahem... the religious aspects are things like miracles and other forms of divine intervention (unlike historically accurate descriptions of cities and kings)
and I believe Aristotle died before 300 BC, and wasn't actually a historian....
again, I respect that you believe that the bible is "holy" and accurate, and these are qualities that require the god you believe in, just don't claim it's an undeniable fact...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
No offense, but i think the newsboys sing this better.
theBFFwebshowMandH 1 year ago
@TheRockerInside I was referring to the religious aspects of the bible, not the historical stuff with other sources (anf by the way, having been dead for more than 300 years and not actually being a historian would probably exclude Aristotle)....
"it's God's word" is not a fact, that is your opinion, that is what you believe in, and your faith is just that, and NOT a fact...
the importance and nature of the rules is different to each christian sect/denomination...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@TheRockerInside well, the christian "logic" of people saying something and other people writing it down = fact, that is just absurd....
I don't actually hate religious people, but when you claim that what you believe in is the universal truth, and that everyone must join you and live under your rules or burn in a fiery pit of doom for all eternity, that just pisses me off....
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@TheRockerInside I promised myself I wouldn't bother answering things like this, but I guess I just gave in to the temptation of telling you that simply stating you're opinion as fact does not make it true, and that when you can't prove something false, that doesn't make it right...
if it did, all religions would be equally true, including the teachings of Bænk Ebider....
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
All of you posting about "evolution" first of all, keep your CRAP to yourselves. I'm tired of you all making up stupid and unsensible things just to try to prove that there isn't a God. Well, newsflash, theres evidence of Him too, so shutup and keep your opinions to yourselves. THANKS
JazzusFreakk 1 year ago
If you people don't believe in Jesus..why are you listening to music that praises him? I know he's real and will always know that. I didn't come from monkeys..I was made in the image of God. Evolution is not real. God is. Just saying. :)
pixiehuff123 1 year ago 11
This has been flagged as spam show
check out my new top20 christian songs 2011: watch?v=0EafbVRCnig
vasadrian10 1 year ago
Love it
mariarox77 1 year ago
which version is better dc talk's or newsboys. thumbs up if you think dc talk's version is better!! :D
nrgarcia1071 1 year ago 2
this is DC Talk's version, not Toby's
KeOt777 1 year ago
@KeOt777 i know! :P
nrgarcia1071 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
HEY! U STOLE THIS FROM ARAGORN!
123DannyDawg 1 year ago
HEY! U STOLE THIS FROM ARAGON!
123DannyDawg 1 year ago
This is DC Talk. Not TobyMac
TheBugMarie 1 year ago
@TheBugMarie Toby Mac is a singer in dc talk..
shannicole1985 1 year ago
WE ARE ALL JESUS FREAKS! those 11 people missed the liked button :O
momokalolp3044 1 year ago
I just lost all faith in humanity after hearing this song.
Itakazookie 1 year ago
This is DC Talk not TobyMac or who ever he is.......Unless he is from the band? or did this with the band?
xinic5 1 year ago
@xinic5 tobyMac was in DC talk but he did not do it all on his own; it was Toby, Michael and Kevin.
BalletBeauty97 1 year ago
@xinic5 Toby mac id the singer in DC Talk
shannicole1985 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thumbs up if Jesus isn't real!
xinic5 1 year ago
one of my fav bands do a wonderful cover of this song!
Rawrluvyou1 1 year ago
Why the red gold and green stripes? Is Toby Gay?
PPJSHO 1 year ago
I can say that I am a Jesus Freak because it is the truth
Relentless4Jesus 1 year ago 2
i love " my best friend was born in a manger"!!!!!!!!!! it is so true
dogfreak1216 1 year ago
This is awesome
jfreak243 1 year ago
I thought this was DC Talk?
Either way, awesome song. (:
StarxStruckxx 1 year ago
im a very big Jesus freak! :)
TheJdummy 1 year ago
I had to compare this song - tobyMac or the Newsboys. I discovered that I love tobymac's version a million times better! How did I know that was coming!? I love tobyMac's music soooooo much. It helps a lot, and it is just, amazzing. In the end, I do not care if someone knows I am a Jesus Freak! I love you, Jesus!
God Bless you all (:
regretsremain 1 year ago
This song is soooo Awesome...an atheist would have this on their Ipod.Just saying
rkaplinger427 1 year ago
this is soooooo awesome! epic song for christians and catholics! :)
8belleangel8 1 year ago
Yeah this is the DC Talk version =) Toby Mac, at least to my knowledge, has never remade this song or did a remix.
sadpandaami 1 year ago
This is Dc talk...!
MoonStruck95 1 year ago
Sorry but this is pretty much: DC Talk..
bjornfcm 1 year ago
thumbs up if ur a jesus freak!
joshpepe08 1 year ago 62
I'm totally a jesus freak
Eaa2001 1 year ago
10 people are not Jesus Freaks :(
lhsbonez 1 year ago
Thumbs up if God is awesome! and I am a Jesus Freak!
emilioadancabrera 1 year ago 93
@emilioadancabrera i want to christian metalcore
bloodsaw84 1 year ago
@emilioadancabrera Amen Brother
guydynamic 1 year ago
DC Talk...
ungothicdove 1 year ago
i love this song! my mom would always play this song for my brothers and i. good memories. :)
emochick56651 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
KISS YOUR HAND 10 TIMES
SAY YOUR CRUSH 15 TIMES
POST TO 2 OTHER VIDEOS
LOOK AT YOUR HAND
ilove15tim 1 year ago
let's not fight? Jesus is Lord, thats the truth, so don't try to twist the truth!
yankeesperson22 1 year ago
Sounds like Dc talk... O.o somewhat.. lol
dannysgirl133 1 year ago
@dannysgirl133 i think hes in it
onion1335144 1 year ago
@dannysgirl133 Because onion1335114 is right, and so are you. This song was originally done by dcTalk, of which tobyMac was a member. This is the dc version, there have also been versions done by Toby as a solo artist and more recently by the reformed Newsboys, whose frontman is Michael Tait, a former dcTalk member.
heavenlylifestyle 1 year ago
AWESOME SONG :)
ErinTurco21 1 year ago
thumbs up if you think that toby is the best singer ever
MrCoolman342 1 year ago
@lethalbro11 your in the wrong church. If they don't teach the bible chapter, by chapter and verse, by verse your not being taught. I'm not going to judge you though, you do what feels right for you.
greasemo12 1 year ago
im a follower of jesus no one else, he is my bff
loverofzuko 1 year ago 3
This is DC Talk NOT Toby MAC!
delphinamw 1 year ago
@delphinamw No, this IS tobyMac. DC Talk does this song, too.. I'm a tobyMac mega fan. This is DEFINITELY tobyMac.. If you listen to the voice, you can definitely tell!
regretsremain 1 year ago
@delphinamw Hey uh, Toby Mac was in the band DC Talk. So this is DC Talk, but Toby singing, cause he was in the band...just fyi. Idk if you knew that or not, maybe you did. But yeah. :)
illBaJesusFreak4Life 1 year ago
I don't care what other people say, I'M A JESUS FREAK! This song pumps me with God's love!
Tregel777 1 year ago
Comment removed
snickersgrl1231 1 year ago
i love god whoo southern baptist
dh1rockonthugs 1 year ago
i just prayed to god the hardest and longest i have ever prayed, i asked him to bring my family back together and bring my girl back to me, and right when i got done, she called me and told me she loved me , and my parents song came on "check yes or no" i thank god for everything in my life, this just happened, im not askin for thumbs up, im just lettin everybody know he IS real and he helps us all in everyday miracles , thank you god for everything you do
emmet97 1 year ago
@emmet97: Then pray for me. Thanks.
CelticWarrior1971 1 year ago
This is DC Talk's version :)
Lilmissrockstar12 1 year ago
@Tayler1352 Yes he is, they are technically TobyMac and the Diverse City band. I've seen them in concert four times now and they do great. and I'm a little obsessed too so don't worry ;) I heard that DC Talk is regrouping to do a 2011 tour though
hannaha777 1 year ago
God gave us a choice in everything. So with a choice comes a outcome/consequence. Always. So God can remove evil and everything from this world. But if He did we wouldn't have a choice, we wouldn't learn from our mistakes because everything would be so peachy. Life wouldn't be valued. It'd be a walk in on the beach. Life has to be tough, it has to teach us that we NEED God. God never said life would be easy, but He did say we'd never have to go through it alone. We'll always have Him.
illBaJesusFreak4Life 1 year ago
Thumbs up if Toby Mac is awesome =)
Tayler1352 1 year ago 41
dont argue, god said not to get into silly arguements
if people dont believe in god, you dont shove it at him, but say "ok" and just love them
kenzk96 1 year ago
@kenzk96 If you go around and ask people if they believe in God and they say no, how are you ever going to get them to believe if you don't argue a little bit?
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations now. - Matthew 28:18
LlamaGurlPc 1 year ago
im a devil freak!
yetteman2k 1 year ago
That's our identity, that's what we are. our belief is the one that save the whole world., can save u as well as me. enjoy life with Jesus
handyantonnio 1 year ago
i agree with toby mac singing about john the baptist the jesus freak i dont care what other people think im a jesus freak
jkcjcfam 1 year ago 31
Like if you think TobyMac is awesome =)
Tayler1352 1 year ago
there is no disguising the TRUTH. Jesus is the way!!!! the Great I AM!!!!!!!
Sister7Fire 1 year ago
Tobymac was a part of DC Talk before he broke off and formed his own band. This is by DC Talk
hannaha777 1 year ago
@hannaha777 Really? I was pretty sure he was still part of Diverse City since I last saw him live (in September) he even said he was still a part of Diverse City. Im pretty sure he is still apart of it depending on the time he broke off. Oh crap sorry I thought you just said DC not DC talk. I feel retarded now lol. Sorry!
Tayler1352 1 year ago
@hannaha777Is he still apart of Diverse City? I am obsesse with TobyMac sorry lol
Tayler1352 1 year ago
TobyMac Is Or Was In Dc Talk
immamonsta1 1 year ago
@immamonsta1 Nothing was ever said about TobyMac not being in DC Talk. The song just needs to be listed under the group that made it so it so there is no confusion between the group that TobyMac is with now and DC Talk is all.
RoboticPuddle 1 year ago
Um. This is DC Talk... Not TobyMac
RoboticPuddle 1 year ago 2
this isnt tobymac! it is dc talk! man come on tell the truth with things
crimsonred11 1 year ago
like this comment if u think that jesus is the answer to everything!!!!!
88fan123 1 year ago 2
If loving God was a crime, I'd be an outlaw! I'm a rebel with a cause, Jesus Christ! I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak! I am what I am! :)
drummerqueen100 1 year ago
@drummerqueen100 hoorah! Jesus is the way!
firefighterENG32 1 year ago
YEAH BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!
charlie3771100 1 year ago
even though I think christianity is responsible for a lot of the suffering in the world, even someone like me who would probably get lynched in certain parts of America can appreciate this music, it reminds of the Offspring in a nostalgic way...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Us Jesus Freaks don't lynch people who hate us we pray for them.
snarenett 1 year ago
@snarenett good, now you only need to spread that kind of non-violent (and maybe even non-brainwashing) attitude to the rest of christianity....
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords why are you blaming Christians for the worlds problems
firefighterENG32 1 year ago
@firefighterENG32 I wasn't being that black and white about it, I am merely stating the fact that violence and brainwashing has so far been a fundamental part of christianity....
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords but tell me how we christians are responsible for it
firefighterENG32 1 year ago
@firefighterENG32 I assume you mean christians today, and not in a historical context, since I assume even you wouldn't deny the great historical crimes of christianity....
well, the violence seems to be reserved for the more obscure sects/denominations (and the occasional lone crazy person) and the rhetoric of some politicians claiming that "God" is on the side of whatever war they are currently supporting...
and the brainwashing part should be pretty obvious...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords You might be putting too much of that weight on Christianity itself. Christians in general never said "Now we shall hunt down the nonbelievers and burn them,", there were just some stupid people who said that. If someone used ToyStory as an excuse to stab anyone who purposely broke one of their toys, for example, I wouldn't just say that ToyStory (or everyone who is a fan of it) is responsible. It's one of those "guns don't kill people" kind of things.
WolfVenom1 1 year ago
@WolfVenom1 yes, the "just a few rotten apples" theory...
I remain sceptic about that, simply because of the scale of the violence, and there seem to be some going on even our time when we are all civilised people...
I am referring to the modern day witchhunts in western Africa, I think it's the Pentecostal church (or whatever it's called) that seems to condone the mental and physical torture of children...
anyway, we can always argue about the scale of the evil within your own ranks, and...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
...probably also if any valuable philosophy within christianity even remains after 2000 years, but the fact remains that those that do all these evil things in the name of your god should be dealt with...
I hope you eventually succeed, but I doubt it...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords But you make it sound as if there were a club of some sort, and that every member is responsible for. one another. By the sheer volume of religious individuals that the population is comprised of, it's inevitable that many of the more oppressive groups fall into religious criteria as well.
By your logic, I could run into 8 thugs on the street of whom 7 were atheists and be able to state and justify that, percentage-wise, atheists are violent goons.
WolfVenom1 1 year ago
@WolfVenom1 I can't seem to find the point where I claim you are responsible for the actions of your fellow christians, but I still think that despite our different opinions about the scale of the problems, we can both agree that you need to deal with these "rotten apples" that are being "violent goons" in the name of your god...
it's basically the same problem football clubs and some left-wing groups are facing, getting rid of the hooligans...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords You are what people call a troll. You say stupid comments knowing that it is gonna spark a fight with some. Example being posting anti semitic stuff on a video for a christian band. Do us a favor and shut the hell up.
lovethespandex 1 year ago
@lovethespandex anti-semitic? well, if people start accusing me of things like that, then there doesn't seem to be room for discussion here...
I thougth that you Jesus freaks were the kind of christians that weren't afraid of debating, but I guess I was wrong...
anyway, I still like the music....
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords
I see points in your arguments. Many people who claim to be Christians do horrible things, and they ruin the public eye of our motivations. Those people, the hypocrites, are doing the exact opposite of what our Lord Jesus came to earth to show us. He healed people, including one of his crusifiers as they got his ear cut off, and a few of us have the whole "If your not one of us go to Hell" attitudes. These people, are very wrong. Either way, I am a Jesus Freak here to debate
LlamaGurlPc 1 year ago
@LlamaGurlPc
Jesus showed us to love others and to 'make disciples' however we decided that killing people would rid the world of Gods enemys! Well, God doesnt HAVE any. We killed the people he loves because they dont fit into our standards, and that is why I find myself arguing against fellow Christians more often then any other religion. If one is a true Christian they should devote their life to helping others, those people who use their life for evil and hurt those who need love are not.
LlamaGurlPc 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Debates can also work in more parties than just two points. If you'd like, I can also argue the points of Islam and Buddhism to you. If you want to argue about religious concepts, go ahead and start, I'm confident I can counter most, if not all of your points.
LlamaGurlPc 1 year ago
@LlamaGurlPc I'm not a very educated man, but I accept your challenge (cue dramatic music)...
well, I'll start making some points:
God is almighty, yet he allows suffering in the world...
now, why is it that way?
does he believe that everyone has chosen his/her pain, and he does nothing because that would interfere with free will?
is he able to something but doen't, thus making him sadistic and evil, and therefore not God...
or is he not able to help, making him not almighty and not God?
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords I figured you'd make this point, God being almighty but not doing anything to fix all the problems of the world. The world, as you have just clearly stated, is damaged and breaking apart. This was caused by the choices of Satan, who defied God's instructions and convinced humans to disobey Him. This broke the original bond between God and humans. Imagine how quickly light makes dark retreat, there is no fight: the darkness just vanishes. We all have darkness in our hearts.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20
You fail to mention why God doesnt destroy the darkness now? Is Satan too powerful? Defend your points.
LlamaGurlPc 1 year ago
@LlamaGurlPc Read it again, my points are clear. Quote: "Until we accept His one loophole in His judgment of evil, we are the darkness against the light." basically says we are the dark, if God is as claimed, He will not destroy us because He is love itself and wants to save us. Since the darkness cannot fight the light, and He wants us to be the light too, He will not do so until almost everyone is saved.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 interesting point, but if we are to truly believe that God is both an omnipotent and benevolent being, then he should be able to cure that darkness without destroying us, and since that doesn't happen, it would seem more likely that God in the almighty version is non-existent, and that God is instead a divine father figure who's powers are limited by the existence of evil...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords God doesn't want to mess with free will. Imagine how uninteresting life would be if everyone was exactly the same- there would be no excitement or diversity. To destroy the darkness without our consent would be to make us all the same. Do you really think that any being who would create all the different things in the universe would enjoy it if everything acted the same way all it's brethren did? That would be the most boring universe ever.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 I have never really understood how it's a choice between doing nothing, and completely removing all suffering, including every single minor inconvenience, thus making us all somehow act the same...
if God is really who you say he is, then he should be able to do something in between, like maybe removing what I would call pure evil, but without removing the whole concept of pain...
he should be able to do that, but he doesn't...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords You must realize of course that some suffering is self inflicted, such as whittling and accidentally cutting yourself, or trying to fix an outlet and getting yourself shocked. In the permanent fixing of these problems, we would be completely incapable of doing anything interesting because of the risk of suffering an injury. In effect, we'd just be able to lie around because of the risk of suffering soreness or injury from too much movement.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 Indeed, but that doesn't explain torture and sadistic murderers, which would be in the non-self inflicted category of suffering...
God could at least deal with that, but he doesn't....
I believe pain can be useful (to a certain degree) in such diverse things as MMA (there's a good example in one of the Ultimate Fighter finales (but I forgot which season)) and writing poetry, and it's a natural part of being human, but torture isn't, so why does that still exist?
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Because the devil exists. God will defeat the devil eventually. He just hasn't yet because He's waiting for all His children to be saved. He's waiting for the right time. Only He knows when that time is. But you can't blame God for all the bad things in the world. He only let's them come about because He lets people chose. And yeah it sucks for whoever is innocent and gets hurt. But I'm sure God always has His way of making it up to them in the end.
illBaJesusFreak4Life 1 year ago
@illBaJesusFreak4Life I found these lines rather interesting:
"And yeah it sucks for whoever is innocent and gets hurt. But I'm sure God always has His way of making it up to them in the end."
this still seems like a slap in the face of innocent people currently being tortured or otherwise being in pain, and the fact that God doesn't help those people right now is enough reason to believe that this is against the very nature of God (according to christians) and that he therefore doesn't exist
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords You can't just take one piece of what I said. You have to read it all. God said this life would be full of suffering, but we wouldn't have to face it alone. Everyone suffers in some way. Every single person does/has/will. And no one is totally innocent. Everyone has sinned and everyone falls short of the glory of God. So I didn't slap anyone in the face. I suffer for my faith, maybe not being physically hurt. But emotionally I do. All hurt is hurt. No matter what form it comes in
illBaJesusFreak4Life 1 year ago
@illBaJesusFreak4Life let me know if I'm totally misunderstanding something here, since everyone is a sinner, people who are raped and tortured despite doing absolutely nothing to deserve it will not recieve any help from God, even if they believe in him and constantly pray to him...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords It's really hard to explain. Especially through just typing. And I know I don't do a very good job of it explaining...but still. Everyone has hardships. There are people who cut themselves, get raped, and all sorts of awful things. But God never leaves them through it all. He may not stop it. But He never leaves the person. And He's always there to pick them back up. God's own Son was mocked and nailed to a cross!! But God never left Him. Jesus could have gotten off that cross.
illBaJesusFreak4Life 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords But He didn't. He suffered for us. Because He loves us. So no matter what we go through, no matter how awful, He's there, and He loves us. And no matter how hard it is, we have to remember that. And in God's eyes every sin is the same. So there is no one who, doesn't "deserve" anything. We deserve so much more than we actually get. So in His eyes, no one is better than anyone else. So everyone deserves death. But Jesus paid the price. The spotless lamb, died, for us.
illBaJesusFreak4Life 1 year ago
@illBaJesusFreak4Life let me see if I can wrap my mind around this, if we assume that a person can either deserve or not deserve something, and nobody doesn't deserve anything, then we all deserve the things we go through, which would include rape and torture....
I hope coming from a non-english speaking country is causing me to misunderstand something here....
and you mentioned that God will observe all these awful things, and not stop them, even though he can, since he's allmighty, so...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Let's see if I can clear up your confusion a little bit.
If we had a justice system that called for imprisonment of the slightest cruelty, everyone would be in jail. It's something that happens when people are angry or arrogant, they'll do something mean or wrong. But put that in terms of most religious views, those actions mean death and torture. So we should all be tortured for doing evil things because we all do such things.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords However, Christianity is the only religion in existence which offers redemption for the evils by grace as a gift rather than forcing everyone to try to be perfect. Jesus offers to take the punishment, and all He asks us is to have faith in Him and tell others about His gift to us all- which is His offer to take our punishment.
But there are also the people who refuse to believe in such a promise because they see no need for it. These people are the most effected by true faith.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 In essence, the only way to convince some people that such a promise can be true is for them to witness the unshakable faith of people who are tortured. If someone is a very strong believer and they get raped, it will be for a bigger and better reason. Such as: they will meet someone who experienced the same thing but has no faith. Because they also experienced it, it will create a bond of faith between the two, and that will spread to more and more people.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 This gives the people with no faith hope that there is something that can be done to finish their suffering permanently. It gives people faith that God has to be out there, no one could be so deluded that they experience something such as rape and still believe that God will always come to help them. Would you believe after such an event unless you were entirely certain of God's existence?
There is a famous saying about karma, and it is quite true. "What goes around comes around."
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 my brain is starting to melt here, it seems you justify any lack of interaction from God (who I assume you believe is a benevolent and omnipotent being) by stating that everyone deserves what they get, which doesn't make sense, and which I know from personal experience (I will not go into details, but it involves rape and murder)...
it seems you try to insert order (God) into chaos (life, with all the pain and suffering it may contain) to give yourself peace of mind....
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords It might make more sense if I say this: Everyone has stolen something. Everyone has lied. Everyone has shown others cruelty in some manner. Everyone has been evil in some way. There is no arguing with that, it's just a fact. But these evils always have a chain of reaction. I'll assume you are familiar with chess, and you probably know that some things are only done with sacrifice. It is the same with life- something must be sacrificed at some point in time.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords In some cases, these sacrifices include suffering, like if you sacrifice your queen in a chess game, you lose a very powerful piece, but if it allows you to achieve check-mate it's worth it. In the same way, if we suffer, it can help us achieve something greater if we use it in the right way. I myself take the fact that I have almost died seven times in my life from things usually considered extremely lethal. That reinforces my belief that God is protecting me.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords I have no feeling in my right hand except with enough heat to boil water. My eyes are likely to completely degenerate by the time I'm thirty. These aren't exactly good things, but I can use them to prove that God is real. For instance, do you know what the probability is for the eyes to have created themselves? Do you know how complex the systems are in the nervous system?
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords I cannot feel anything with my right hand and it is likely my eyes will fully degenerate by the time I'm 25- less than a decade from now. These aren't exactly good things. But look at what they are attached to. The eye is very complex, and the nervous system is extremely advanced for such primitive bodies. Our body is designed more complexly than a supercomputer. But supercomputers didn't just pop into existence, we made them. In the same way, God made us, we didn't just pop up.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords What would life be for if there wasn't a bigger reason behind everything that we experience? Life is pointless. If all we are here for is to survive, then ultimately we will fail because everyone will die. We will have struggled and suffered the natural course of life for nothing. If there is a reason behind everything, but it isn't God, then what is it?
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 about the eye....
it seems that christians in general can only imagine things being created instantaneously, and are not able to comprehend things evolving over millions of years, as with the case of the human eye, who went from maybe a few light sensitive cells on some sea-dwelling creature to what is today....
and I do not understand your need to have a reason behind everything...
making sense is often something you have to do yourself, giving meaning to life is a human thing...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Oh, it'd be no problem to believe in such a thing if I thought it was true. Unfortunately, evolution is illogical. In order to have everything evolve from one thing, that means they'd all have to be related. So tell me, if that is the case, why on earth do plants allow us and other animals to eat them and use them for shelter? Don't you think they'd have evolved enough by now to be run away from predators like everything else?
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 I think you're misunderstanding something here about evolution, no memory of being related to the same primitive organism is retained by plants, but most creatures seem to have some sort of defense mechanism, and if they don't, they'll very slowly adapt to whatever is killing them, in order to survive, which is probably what that whole "survival of the fittest" is about...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords I misunderstand nothing. I know the majority of how evolution works, having once believed it myself. But I'd like you to look at the beginnings of evolution. I find it highly unlikely that the matter of the universe disobeyed the laws of the universe. Nothing creating everything is pretty hard to believe. Especially if you look at the precision of it all. The odds of such precise equations to life being able to exist are astronomical, something had to make it.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Add that on to the "survival of the fittest", I believe that humans would be "devolving" in this case, since we have more and more people getting overweight, using drugs/alcohol, and getting diseases that are supposedly incurable. I would think that we'd be above such things by now, if we really have been here millions of years. I'd also like to point out that if you follow the track of human population, it appears to have started within the last 5000 years, not millions.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 regarding how things started (which doesn't really interest me that much), I simply prefer any scientific theory instead of simply saying "God did it"....
evolution is a biological process, and the things you mention seem to be mostly about a kind of "moral decay"...
and about tracking the human population, I assume you mean modern humans (and don't include Homo Erectus and our more distant cousins) which are older than that, as is the case with the Mladec bones...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords The scientific theory includes testing hypothesis and observation of the test in progress, not just the speculation of something happening in the past. Since the evolution of things from one species to another is impossible to create in a lab, it is only speculation. This is why some people view the evolutionary theory to be a religion, it's not observable. Humanity cannot understand something so strange as a God. Reading the Bible might help, but we still won't fully understand.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20: Good comment.
CelticWarrior1971 1 year ago
@milifreak20 "Since the evolution of things from one species to another is impossible to create in a lab, it is only speculation."...
I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than that, science has never been confined to a lab, and the thing about labeling it a religion is just plain ridiculous...
scientific truth is different from religious truth since it can be changed if new information is found, unlike in religion where whatever your holy book says is true no matter what migth happen...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords The first result of looking up the definition of a religion is: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
And another is: something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience
milifreak20 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JugglerOfWords These both define evolution just as much as any mainstream religion such as Islam, Christianity, or Buddhism.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords These fit both evolution and all other belief systems, including the vast majority of "science".
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 waht does ht mean idc i worship God and i didnt come fome a monekey
MultiMasterjake 1 year ago
@MultiMasterjake If I interpret what you said properly, then my response is this:
I am pointing out the fact that evolution is a religion just as much as Christianity because in order to believe it one must be devoted to follow it. It also has the code of ethics which is commonly referred to as "survival of the fittest". Following evolution, you do what you want so long as you survive it. That makes it a religion, as it follows the definitions I stated earlier.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 I still think you're being a little too eager in labeling a scientific theory like evolution, a religion, so let me try to mention a few things that are not found within evolution:
a creator
anything supernatural
commandments, and other rules of human behavior
rituals, sacraments, hymns
worship
a code of ethics ("survival of the fittest" a merely a description of how nature seems to behave)
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Again I disagree.
Evolution may seem to have no creator, but it does. Nothingness is your creator. Nothing created everything, according to quite a few people who believe evolution anyway. That would make nothingness a creator, wouldn't it?
Nothing supernatural? Don't you think it'd be supernatural to have a small dot of nothing that suddenly explodes into all the matter required for everything to develop? I'm fairly certain that's the "Big Bang Theory".
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Rules of behavior, follow your instinct and serve yourself so that you might survive while others don't. Or at least, that's the impression I get from people who odevotedly support evolution.
Rituals: try very hard to tear down religions in general, but mostly Christianity which seems to be the only really big one to bother evolutionists.
Worship: Yourself. Following your own rules and doing what you want makes you the "god" of your own little universe.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords A code of ethics will be whatever you want it to be. Once again, this makes you the "god" of your own universe since you can decide what you think is good or bad.
It seems to me that evolution is at least very close to a religion, if not actually being one.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 well, the whole thing about what actually caused the big bang and thus created the universe is not something evolution deals with, and it's not really scientific make any claims about who or what is the creator (that is, if there even is a creator)...
rules of behavior?...
you're quite wrong here, nobody is telling anybody to behave in a certain way...
rituals?...
you're describing the behavior of certain individuals, not an actual ritual...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords If the Big Bang Theory does not explain the beginning of the universe for evolution, then please tell me what does so I can update my knowledge.
I never said that someone told people to do that, but that they seem to believe that's what the rules are.
If certain individuals includes every evolutionist I've met, then yes, it is just certain individuals who follow this apparent ritual.
I believe a Church of Satan worships Satan, not yourself.
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 as far as I know, how the universe began is something we cannot know or explain, I choose to accept that, while you read a book and say "God did it"...
OK, point taken...
I would call that behavior a "habit" and not an actual ritual, which I always thought involved some kind of formalised ceremony...
when referring to the "Church of Satan" that Anton Lavey started in the 60's, you're wrong, they're just a kind of atheistic philosophy...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Most "good" and "bad" is based off of something. I think you'll find the vast majority of good is based off of God and His perfection.
Proverbs are an excellent way to realize just how foolish every human is. My own Bible says this:
“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.” (Proverbs 9:10)
and:
“He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.” (Proverbs 13:20)
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 look people jus relax and listen to the music
MegaJasper1 1 year ago
@milifreak20 that just sound totally absurd to me, that because something is good, it must be based off of God...
first of all, that would require the existence of a god, which cannot be proven or disproven (much like the fabled "flying spaghetti monster")
and second, it would require the concept of "good" to impossible without this god...
I fail to see the logic here...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Men made evolution, and Christianity was made by God. Who would be the foolish, the men or a God?
milifreak20 1 year ago
@milifreak20 "Christianity was made by God" is a matter of faith and cannot logically be stated as fact, and I refuse to answer this absurd rhetorical question...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords As I have said before, it is a difficult thing to explain. It is clear that I will not be able to change your mind, but I can tell you that I believe completely and fully in God. I recommend you read the book Ecclesiastes, it'll explain better than I could why believe in God is the only thing that really makes any sense in the world. Perhaps, if you are willing, I can take you through some books of the Bible explaining it, but it would take individuals messages, not comments.
milifreak20 1 year ago 2
@milifreak20 perhaps it is time to declare our little debate a draw then....
I am reminded of something this lady said to me in kindergarden back in the 80's: "God exist for those who believe in him", and I simply don't, nor do I have a need to believe...
and with that, I bid you all farewell...
(now go back and listen to rather good music)...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords Certainly it would seem so. But that is mostly because neither of us will believe in the others philosophy. I once believed I didn't need God either, but I know now that everyone does, they will just refuse it.
If you ever feel curious about it again, I suggest you study the Bible yourself for the best results.
I suppose I too must say farewell, since I no longer have much of a reason to leave comments.
milifreak20 1 year ago
Comment removed
TYK303 1 year ago
@JugglerOfWords wether or not you believe Jesus exists or not,
he still loves you.
TYK303 1 year ago 5
the worshipping part seems more to be something taken straight out of the Church of Satan, and not evolution...
code of ethics?....
maybe you're right, but I still believe there some things everyone can agree is either good or bad, without the help of any gods or other people...
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
and by the way, your way of thinking about evolution reminds me of an old danish proverb that roughly translates to: "a thief thinks every man steals" (no offense)
JugglerOfWords 1 year ago
Comment removed
milifreak20 1 year ago