Skating from side to side! Short program at the Olympics, a wonderful, wonderful! Arbitrary, very bad. Permanent waving hands to the music at the end of strain. For artistry maximum score 5.5!
There is a totally nasty crack about Sasha at the 2010 Nationals....at least she TRIED and showed such courage and integrity that she really contributed to the restoration of the integrity of the sport...nope...didn't win...nope...didn't make the Olympic team...but she tried. She is so humble that she considered the silver in 2006 to be a gift...she had already changed into street clothes...that's the mark of a TRUE competitor and champion!!!!! She SO deserved the bronze in SLC:(
@getrealandsee Excuse me, you are the trash box who posted that Michelle Kwan performed oral sex on a member of the USA skating federation in order to earn her Olympic berth to Torino...nothing I have EVER said is even close to being that low. Sasha's 2010 Nationals was not courageous...she was not prepared (she needed an excuse) and she should have relinquished her spot to someone else. It was a disgrace and total embarrassment...a horrible note upon which to end a very mediocre "career"...
@getrealandsee Sasha humble? I've never had that impression. She came off as a snotty, arrogant brat and very full of herself. IMO Sasha totally bought into her being superior by virtue of her artistry. She played musical coaches more than anyone..Tarasova has had a boat load of Olympic champions, yet she could not turn Sasha into a champion. At the end of the day Sasha was the captain of her ship, but look what it got her: CAREER DISAPPOINTMENT! She's known more as a choker than a champion :(
As American Sasha Cohen began her final spins, Kwan went into her twitchy pre-ice routine, her arms snapping apart and together like a clothespin. She clapped briefly for Cohen, and then raced out onto the rink, deftly navigating through the toys and bouquets. The flower girls were gawking at Cohen, but Kwan snapped them back into duty, motioning for them to hurry up and gather all the goodies still littering the oval.
@getrealandsee SASHA WASN'T TALENTED ENOUGH TO EARN 9 NATIONAL AND 5 WORLD TITLES ON ICE, AND YOU AREN'T INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO EARN THEM FOR HER ON YOUTUBE!!! Sasha's second-rate career is the result of style being emphasized more than substance. Instead of trying to be Olga Korbut on ice, Sasha should have learned how to skate. Yanking your leg up will only take you so far...to become a LEGEND like MICHELLE KWAN you have to land jumps CONSISTENTLY!!! Unlike Sasha, Michelle is a TRUE champion!
@MsPelicanus Dear, no one is jealous of a skater who choked 99% of the time. I am simply responding to the crap that you and your other personalities spew upon youtube on a daily basis. Like it or not, what I've said about Sasha is a fact. She choked 99% of the time and is the biggest head case in skating history. If you can say all of the nasty things you say about Michelle then, at the very least, I can post FACTS about Sasha. If you don't like it don't read it.
Sasha earned the Bronze medal at these Olympics! Period! Her short should have placed her in first to begin with...but that other skater was gifted that....and this program is far more complex and the choreography so much more challenging than what that other skater thought was Olympic worthy...no, Sasha will never wear the bronze but she certainly did earn it....Sasha choreographed a lot of her own programs...I don't know who michiganisnotsoco is but must be desperate to resort to such a level.
@getrealandsee AKA ALLENGLANDLAWNS... COULDA, WOULDA, SHOULDA...you can speculate all you want but the F-A-C-T is that Sasha Cohen choked her career away. Only a complete, brain dead idiot would attribute her lack of success to a pro-Kwan judging conspiracy. Sasha couldn't even defeat Kimmie Meissner for a world title when Michelle was out of the picture...and that's because she was a second-rate competitor who had occasional moments of brilliance. Michelle's CAREER was brilliant. L-E-G-E-N-D!!!
@MissThingSings YOU HAVE A VENDETTA AGAINST SASHA FOR SOME STUPID REASON. GIVE THE GIRL A BREAK . I WOULD PAY TO WATCH SASHA . AS FOR THE OTHERS I WOULDNT BOTHER>> THATS MY PERSONAL CHOICE. I PREFER SASHA STYLE >> MORE FASCINATING TO WATCH HER !SHES UNIQUE SOMETHING THAT ALL THE OTHER SKATERS WISH FOR
@MsPelicanus Amazing that I have a "vendetta" when I RESPOND to the nasty, hateful posts by your other username. You are brain dead. If Sasha is your favorite then more power to you..I prefer skaters who actually accomplish something. Sasha was ore style than substance...she was not a winner or true champion. She belonged in ice shows where the emphasis is on looking good..Sasha is the Britney Spears of skating. She looks good and is entertaining but not even close to being an all-time great.
@MsPelicanus She not only has better style, but her moves are much more difficult to execute. Her spins, the "Sasha spiral" with her foot turned backwards, the connecting steps going into jumps and the other elements, circular footwork...the list goes on. Much harder routines than Michelle did.
@HowsaBowsaYowsa The object of competitive skating is to win...no matter her assets, Sasha was not a winner. Who cares about her style, difficult moves, connecting steps or spirals...none of those attributes resulted in Sasha becoming a champion. Michelle Kwan is a winner. She is a champion. She is a legend. She was smart enough to know that being conservative is often the right thing to do...playing daredevil in the name of art is idiotic. Sasha belonged in ice shows, not in competition...
Sasha didn't do well respectively as much as either Sarah, Irina and Michelle Kwan. Her spirals however were so beautiful to watch, but unfortunately, the same cannot be said of her falls. Michelle Kwan deserved as much respect as did Sasha, Irina and Sarah. Michelle performed a CLEAN program, as much as Sarah did. Had Sasha performed a clean program, she wouldn't be an underrated skater.
@anne91276 im a huge michelle fan but she didnt skate clean at the 02 olympics, she fell on a triple flip. however saha's fall here was more disruptive, and michelle landed 2 jump combinations while sasha only landed 1. also sasha's footwork was shallow here
@michiganisnotsoco Oh, Michelle's falls were NEVER considered disruptive...ooooooh, she falls ever so gracefully.....oooooh, look at how she gets up and keeps going....oooooh, give her 5.9s or 6.0s for presentation....Sasha PAID for every little mistake and in spite of the mistake she EARNED the BRONZE!!!! At one Nats Kwan ***shock*** bit the ice and Dick Button blatantly said...'the judges will just give her a little wink'...sure enough.....another gifted Gold!!!
@getrealandsee sasha's fall was square on her butt, and the more important part was that it was on a combination jump. that means sasha only had 1 combo in her lp while michelle had 2. and when it comes to paying for her mistakes i guess that's why sasha was given a 6.0 at nationals after falling splat on the ice during her swan lake program? btw news flash, kristi yamaguchi won olympic gold with a fall
@michiganisnotsoco Kwan couldn't do a combo and she fell on a very simple jump. No, she hasn't had multiple back to back clean programs either...she stumbles and bumbles but the judges overlook it for poor little wannabe Michelle....Kristi is a true champion...I watched her reaction to another skater and it was class all the way...if little shelly didn't have the gold handed to her it was not pretty...at all....also, since Kwan knew that NATS were all hers after Tara she didn't stress out!
@getrealandsee BULLSHIT. kwan did 2 combos: 3lz-2l and 3t-2t (2footed) while sasha fell on one of her combos (much worse!) thus only getting 1 combo. even if u didnt count the programs where michelle had a slight bobble she stiill has tons of back2back clean competitions. both sarah/tara have spoken highly about their friendly off-ice relationship with michelle so ur full of crap. and kristi fell and doubled a jump yet won olympic gold yet you shit all over michelle for falling u psychopath
Michelle did not skate a clean long program. She fell on the triple flip. Most of her other jumps were small, tight, and guarded. She lacked oomph throughout the whole program. Sasha skated with spark and energy despite falling.
@anne91276 Kwan is the most OVERRATED skater ever....very very rarely did she have two clean programs back to back....of course the judges overlooked stumbles and bumbles and gave her inflated scores....this is from Peggy Fleming btw....can't remember which video but it's out there....neither Kwan or Sasha skated clean but SASHA'S courageous risk filled and beautifully choreograped program was absolutely superior to Kwan's!!
@getrealandsee what is this historical revisionism? michelle has more back to back clean programs than most skaters, if not all. courage and risk filled? LMFAO. how many times did sasha even attempt a triple triple? what a myth! she couldn't stay upright even when trying to execute simple programs
@MsPelicanus Yes she certainly is...graceful and her programs just flow...poetry in motion on the ice and from every interview I have seen a very accomplished and motivated young woman...and gorgeous as well. Sad that she skated during the wretched era and was denied her place in figure skating history...
@getrealandsee ROFLMAO!!!! Um, in what era can one skate where falling 99.99% of the time is a winning formula? Can you please name a champion of ANY era who choked as much as Sasha did? You are among the most ignorant people I have ever encountered. The reason Sasha Cohen isn't a winner is because TRUE CHAMPIONS LAND JUMPS. TRUE CHAMPIONS SKATE CLEANLY WHEN IT MATTERS. TRUE CHAMPIONS BEAT KIMMIE MEISSNER AT THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. TRUE CHAMPIONS DON'T IMPLODE AT THE 2010 NATIONALS!!!!!!!!!
@getrealandsee It's not graceful or poetic to see a skater sprawled across the ice and splattered upon it. Sasha's falls, wobbles and bobbles disrupted her programs to such an extent that her artistry was severely diminished. NOT ONE credible skating expert or authority has EVER stated that Sasha's lack of titles is the result of ANYTHING other than HER OWN FAILURES. NOT ONE!! It's only her bitter, envious fans who find it much too painful to admit that she was much more style than substance.
@getrealandsee aka Allenglandlawns, etc...it's really kind of you to share your dreams, but in the real world medals are EARNED. You don't get to manufacture results, dear. Isn't it a shame that Sasha lacked the talent and heart to become a true champion? How unfortunate that you are still whining about results when every intelligent and rational person knows that Sasha's lack of titles is justified based on her unprecedented choking. She was a very gifted train wreck.
@HowsaBowsaYowsa ABSOLUTELY.....and sport's writers and the general public (except for the crazed kwan defenders agree)!!! Sasha was just plain robbed....she fell but on a difficult jump and the rest of her program made Kwan's look more pathetic than it already did...crybaby Kwan wasn't even gracious about it....look at her on the podium...but now of course she touts it and brags....Sasha's program was full of risks and artistically beautiful...but Kwan had to take something shiny home...
On the other hand, Sasha performed much better than Kimmie in a lots of areas, but when in competition, her consistency suffered. You can't expect Kimmie to skate with grace because Kimmie is NOT a graceful skater like Sasha has been. Kimmie could master a tough axel component because she works hard enough, just like Tonya Harding and Midori Ito. But Kimmie's axel isn't as explosive like Tonya and Midori!
On so so many videos of the wannabe justification for her high marks after biting the ice and stumbling about...well, she DID complete 6 triples...Sasha EARNED the Bronze medal here...her program beat mediocre 'I deserve the Gold and will have it handed to me with a puked up watered down short **gifted first** and an easy long'...of course by the wannabe's standards her programs were olympic worthy.....Sasha was ripped off but she wasn't the only victim of the reeking era of the Kwan.
@getrealandsee Sasha Cohen was a victim? Remind me, at which world, Olympic or national competition did Sasha skate two clean programs and lose to someone who made an error? For that matter, tell me when Sasha EVER skated two clean programs at nationals, worlds or Olympics. Sasha doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Michelle Kwan...Sahsa isn't even as accomplished as Kimmie Meissner or Alissa Czinny! She couldn't even win when Michelle left the sport! Victim? LOLOLOL!!!
@MissThingSings I think getreal is a real piece of work, but I don't think Sasha is without her own merit. She has many great qualities to her skating and she's recognized for that. All the skaters who make it to this level have something special about them.
@RevShaqueefa I agree on both points...Getreal is a piece of "work" to put it mildly =) I also agree that Sasha had great qualities to her skating. Despite my criticism of her, I have always acknowledged her extraordinary artistry. I've qualified that, though, by stating that artistry is not enough...you have to have all of the pieces to the puzzle and actually win titles to be considered among the greats. Sasha's skating was gorgeous artistically, yet incomplete and one dimensional overall.
@HowsaBowsaYowsa Sasha was one dimensional because she was an artistic skater...her jumping ability was highly suspect and she could never be depended on to land jumps or skate cleanly. She rarely, if ever, skated two clean programs consecutively, and she never did it in a major competition. That is one dimensional, certainly when compared to Kwan who skated cleanly MOST of the time, and who combined beautiful artistry with sound technique on her jumps. Michelle was in another league.
@HowsaBowsaYowsa I could hit five bottles and still land jumps more cleanly than Sasha Cohen lolol! Alissa is a TWO time national champion, Kimme is a World and national champion (beating Sasha at world's)...they are both more accomplished than Sasha.
@MissThingSings Im sorry but Alissa Cisney is nothing compared to sasha. Yes alissa has good spins but her jumps and artistry are far worse than sasha's. Yes kimmie may have had slightly better jumps than sasha, but in an all-round aspect of an accomplished skater, sasha is better
@sk8ingcoach1 I am sorry, but you are wrong about Alissa. Alissa SHARES the same qualities that Sasha has and if you were a little more open minded or observant, you would have known that Alissa has faster spins and she also has gorgeous jumps when not having consistency problem like what Sasha used to have. The reason why Alissa is still having consistency problem is that her coach did an extremely poor job of coaching Alissa.
@sk8ingcoach1 What do you mean Alissa is "nothing" compared to Sasha? Alissa has managed to win two national titles...that's one more than Sasha was ever able to win. Kimmie has a national and world title, and she beat Sasha at worlds. While Sasha may be superior artistically, what matters most is actually winning...if gorgeous line and posture doesn't result in winning then it's a waste in terms of competitive skating. Sasha was not a complete skater...she was one dimensional and VERY erratic.
@MissThingSings Well if your talking about winning, i believe sasha has 3 world medals and 1 olympic medal which much more than Alissa has achieved. Kimmie only has a world gold medal but im pretty sure sasha beat kimmie at nearly every other international event.
@sk8ingcoach1 The bottom line is that Kimmie won a world title and she beat Sasha to get it. That one title is more prestigious than anything Sasha ever won...which means Kimmie is more accomplished. I think Sasha was a beautiful skater, but she was an under-achiever and her fans give her far too much credit.
@MissThingSings Ok, i do agree about her fans giving her a lot of credit... But i dont believe the she was an under-achiever. Yes Kimmie beat sasha to get the world title, but sasha beat kimmie to win nationals, and beat kimmie get a silver at olympics... The only competition kimmie beat sasha was at worlds. Sasha won medals at many many events, they may not have always been gold but she still got medals.. So in the end, yes kimmie got the world title but sasha is not an under-achiever.
@sk8ingcoach1 Sasha is an underachiever because, with her potential, she should have won tons of big titles. At the very least she should have been extremely competitive at world's, nationals and Olympics regularly. That she went her entire career being so erratic, never able to gain the mental toughness required to be a true champion, is just incredibly disappointing. I believe she was arrogant and difficult to coach..as a result a career that should have been extraordinary was anything but.
@sk8ingcoach1 My point is that a Kimmie Meissner should NEVER beat a Sasha Cohen! That Kimmie has a world title and Sasha doesn't is outrageous. Sasha had gifts that Kimmie could only dream about. IMO Sasha was arrogant and believed her own hype..she foolishly played musical coaches instead of sticking it out and doing the work. Too caught up in being an artist and not concerned enough with becoming a champion. This is why Michelle was so superior..except for firing Frank (stupid!) she got it.
@MissThingSings No No NO NO NO.......... Do not call me a sasha fan.. I am simply giving her a little more credit than you are. But in no case am i a sasha fan. Flexibility and good spins dont impress me, im a fan of those female skaters with the biggest, strongest and fastest jumps ( which sasha is not, and neither is kimmie )
@sk8ingcoach1 Gotcha...I think her flexibility and spins were impressive, but certainly not as impressive as seeing a skater who best combined artistry and technical merit. It's a shame because she could have been extraordinary and one of the best ever. By the same token, watching someone like Irina was painful to me. She seems like a lovely person, but what she did in between jumps was just atrocious IMO.
@sk8ingcoach1 Oh no...I'm sorry, I just find Irina to be incredibly sloppy and devoid of artistry. Her jumps are mile high for sure, and she certainly landed everything in the '05 world's LP, but the way she telegraphs her jumps just ruins the performance for me. I do like her though...she has always been classy and seems quite friendly.
@getrealandsee pshycho! you are right, Michelle should have earned a gold here! was Michelle in your dream last night? was she talking you? or is she talking to you in your head right now? what an idiot!
I feel Sasha's artistry is very deserving of rewards. That stuff is hard to do, and you can tell because not many skaters can actually do it, nor are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to achieve such a talent. Unfortunately she is a bygone of an era that is more focused on the specific (one could say sometimes boring) aspect of jumping. This, I think, is ultimately rather limiting to the sport as it chisels away at the acceptance of innovation as the sport becomes more
@camille32087 If the discussion is simply about artistry, then Sasha was an amazing skater. However, competitive figure skating is not just about artistry, nor is it about entertainment or innovation. It is about combining artistry with athleticism and execution. Despite her tremendous artistic gifts, it really is a shame that she was never able to develop into a true champion due to her inability to master jumps and lack of mental toughness.
I'm sorry but Sasha Cohen performance wasn't worthy of a bronze medal. No, Michelle Kwan didn't get a bronze medal out of pity.....SHE EARNED IT! Sasha Cohen under rotated on both jumps of her combination Triple Lutz/Triple Toe AND FELL!
@DaTallOne25 Sasha's program had more grace and flow than Kwan's...she may have fallen but she fell on a jump that was very difficult...Kwan didn't even manage a triple triple and she two footed the landing even after the downgrade...then she bit the ice....and then there is the fact that Kwan in NO WAY shape or form should have been 1st after that watered down puked up short....No, Sasha earned the bronze medal and not just earned it was miles ahead of Kwan...Sasha's program was Olympic worthy!
@getrealandsee Sasha Cohen competed against Michelle for nearly a decade..in the experienced eyes of those who judged them, Michelle was far superior overall. I think Sasha was a gorgeous artist, but she was one dimensional and too mentally fragile to be a true champion. I know you love to throw out the big pro-Kwan judging conspiracy as an excuse for Sasha's failures, but one need only look at Kimmie Meissner's trophy case to know the truth. Sasha was a beautiful skater but not a true champion.
@MissThingSings But at this time, February 2002, Sasha and Kwan had only competed a couple of years at most together. There was still heavy heavy Kwan favoritism left over from the late 90s.
@HowsaBowsaYowsa The idea of Kwan favoritism is really unfounded...except for the fact that judges usually favor skaters who skate cleanly over those who don't. That's how it is supposed to be. This program is typical of Sasha...beautiful artistry combined with disaster. That is not a winning combination and no judge should reward her profound inconsistency just because she had great lines and posture. Michelle won regularly because she was clean, consistent and technically sound.
@DaTallOne25 I am certain if this had been under the newer scoring system (COP) then Sasha would have easily been on the podium after this performance, not Kwan. Her grade of execution alone would have kicked Kwan to 4th place when all was said and done. Don't get me wrong, I think Kwan had a good artistic impression on the ice, but nothing that could quite match Sasha's perfect lines, positions, and stretch.
@HowsaBowsaYowsa I don't understand how anyone can speak with certainty about what Sasha would do under any circumstances because she was entirely erratic and unpredictable. First, the excuse is that judges favored Kwan and the 6.0 system was flawed...but Sasha Cohen never dominated skating under ANY system. She was a great artist for sure..gorgeous. But she was a total head case. And, she didn't just miss difficult jumps she frequently botched the easiest of elements. Why alter facts???
Sasha is just unbelievable and underrated. Just amazing. The jumps, spins, footwork, and that amazing spiral. Breathtaking talent. Her first major international debut and she made America proud with her phenomenal skating.
@allenglandlawns Absolutely...incredible choreography in both the short and the long...Sasha should have been 1st after the short period!! She so earned and deserved the Bronze medal here and it's sickening to hear Kwan tout that pity bone medal thrown to her...on the podium her body language SCREAMED 'I am Michelle Kwan...how DARE the judges not hand that Gold Medal over'. Arrogant, rude, and a very very poor sport. I sincerely hope that Kwan eats her heart out every day!
@getrealandsee Sasha DEFINITELY should have been on that podium for sure! But Kwan gets pity points for choking again. I guess if you make that much money and hang around that long, you're bound to get a medal for participation... even at the expense of the deserving athlete who earned it. In a way, I'm glad Kwan was handed the bronze. Gives the world a chance to witness the waterworks and expose the REAL Kwan.... so arrogant... trying to show Sarah how to step to the top... like she knows!
@allenglandlawns You're right. To see her and observe her body language is most amusing and she was handed the bronze as kind of an honorable mention. Yep...hang on forever and ever and ever and ever...screw other skaters, hog the spotlight for as long as possible....cheat, lie, spit on the Olympic creed...yeah...for sure Kwan simply absolutely had to show the Olympic Gold Medalist how to climb to the top of the podium. She was totally not going to allow anything to take the focus off of herself
I love the quality of this video. Lovely Sasha is even lovelier in HD. This is one of my favorite Sasha programs. So energetic, quality spins, fast spins, centered spins, great jumps, incredible stretch and balance. She is the best.
@HowsaBowsaYowsa You leave out the fact that she's a poor sport and thug. But you would because those elements of her character are not attractive or sexy.
@JNagarya If you are speaking of Sasha Cohen you are blowing smoke out of your a.. If you want to talk poor sports and thugs talk about Michelle 'I wanna try again so I will lie and cheat...I will petition and I will embarrass both the US Olympic Team and the very sport of figure skating...I will crap on the Olympic Creed and to heck with Emily Hughes...KWAN'. You don't have to use a club to be a THUG!!
@HowsaBowsaYowsa You are absolutely right! Sasha was totally ripped off...this was so much better than Kwan's This program was of Olympic caliber..complex, gorgeous coreography, and when Sasha fell she fell on a much more difficult jump than Kwan even attempted...it's maddening to hear...1 mistake....Kwan made more than 1 mistake..Sasha Cohen is the true Bronze medalist
for the 2002 Olympics. Kwan touts that medal but it was just a pity bone thrown to her at Sasha's expense of course.
Skating from side to side! Short program at the Olympics, a wonderful, wonderful! Arbitrary, very bad. Permanent waving hands to the music at the end of strain. For artistry maximum score 5.5!
salxow 13 hours ago
There is a totally nasty crack about Sasha at the 2010 Nationals....at least she TRIED and showed such courage and integrity that she really contributed to the restoration of the integrity of the sport...nope...didn't win...nope...didn't make the Olympic team...but she tried. She is so humble that she considered the silver in 2006 to be a gift...she had already changed into street clothes...that's the mark of a TRUE competitor and champion!!!!! She SO deserved the bronze in SLC:(
getrealandsee 2 weeks ago
@getrealandsee Excuse me, you are the trash box who posted that Michelle Kwan performed oral sex on a member of the USA skating federation in order to earn her Olympic berth to Torino...nothing I have EVER said is even close to being that low. Sasha's 2010 Nationals was not courageous...she was not prepared (she needed an excuse) and she should have relinquished her spot to someone else. It was a disgrace and total embarrassment...a horrible note upon which to end a very mediocre "career"...
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
@getrealandsee Sasha humble? I've never had that impression. She came off as a snotty, arrogant brat and very full of herself. IMO Sasha totally bought into her being superior by virtue of her artistry. She played musical coaches more than anyone..Tarasova has had a boat load of Olympic champions, yet she could not turn Sasha into a champion. At the end of the day Sasha was the captain of her ship, but look what it got her: CAREER DISAPPOINTMENT! She's known more as a choker than a champion :(
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
katrarina witt skated to this in the 80's but she is no where near as good as SASHA!!.
Sasha has a flow and grace that no one has. SHE IS MORE INTERESTING TO WATCH !
MsPelicanus 2 weeks ago
As American Sasha Cohen began her final spins, Kwan went into her twitchy pre-ice routine, her arms snapping apart and together like a clothespin. She clapped briefly for Cohen, and then raced out onto the rink, deftly navigating through the toys and bouquets. The flower girls were gawking at Cohen, but Kwan snapped them back into duty, motioning for them to hurry up and gather all the goodies still littering the oval.
getrealandsee 2 weeks ago
@getrealandsee SASHA WASN'T TALENTED ENOUGH TO EARN 9 NATIONAL AND 5 WORLD TITLES ON ICE, AND YOU AREN'T INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO EARN THEM FOR HER ON YOUTUBE!!! Sasha's second-rate career is the result of style being emphasized more than substance. Instead of trying to be Olga Korbut on ice, Sasha should have learned how to skate. Yanking your leg up will only take you so far...to become a LEGEND like MICHELLE KWAN you have to land jumps CONSISTENTLY!!! Unlike Sasha, Michelle is a TRUE champion!
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
@MissThingSings YOU SEEM JEALOUS OF SASHA.
MsPelicanus 2 weeks ago
@MsPelicanus Dear, no one is jealous of a skater who choked 99% of the time. I am simply responding to the crap that you and your other personalities spew upon youtube on a daily basis. Like it or not, what I've said about Sasha is a fact. She choked 99% of the time and is the biggest head case in skating history. If you can say all of the nasty things you say about Michelle then, at the very least, I can post FACTS about Sasha. If you don't like it don't read it.
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
Sasha earned the Bronze medal at these Olympics! Period! Her short should have placed her in first to begin with...but that other skater was gifted that....and this program is far more complex and the choreography so much more challenging than what that other skater thought was Olympic worthy...no, Sasha will never wear the bronze but she certainly did earn it....Sasha choreographed a lot of her own programs...I don't know who michiganisnotsoco is but must be desperate to resort to such a level.
getrealandsee 3 weeks ago
@getrealandsee AKA ALLENGLANDLAWNS... COULDA, WOULDA, SHOULDA...you can speculate all you want but the F-A-C-T is that Sasha Cohen choked her career away. Only a complete, brain dead idiot would attribute her lack of success to a pro-Kwan judging conspiracy. Sasha couldn't even defeat Kimmie Meissner for a world title when Michelle was out of the picture...and that's because she was a second-rate competitor who had occasional moments of brilliance. Michelle's CAREER was brilliant. L-E-G-E-N-D!!!
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
@MissThingSings YOU HAVE A VENDETTA AGAINST SASHA FOR SOME STUPID REASON. GIVE THE GIRL A BREAK . I WOULD PAY TO WATCH SASHA . AS FOR THE OTHERS I WOULDNT BOTHER>> THATS MY PERSONAL CHOICE. I PREFER SASHA STYLE >> MORE FASCINATING TO WATCH HER !SHES UNIQUE SOMETHING THAT ALL THE OTHER SKATERS WISH FOR
MsPelicanus 2 weeks ago
@MsPelicanus Amazing that I have a "vendetta" when I RESPOND to the nasty, hateful posts by your other username. You are brain dead. If Sasha is your favorite then more power to you..I prefer skaters who actually accomplish something. Sasha was ore style than substance...she was not a winner or true champion. She belonged in ice shows where the emphasis is on looking good..Sasha is the Britney Spears of skating. She looks good and is entertaining but not even close to being an all-time great.
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
@MsPelicanus She not only has better style, but her moves are much more difficult to execute. Her spins, the "Sasha spiral" with her foot turned backwards, the connecting steps going into jumps and the other elements, circular footwork...the list goes on. Much harder routines than Michelle did.
HowsaBowsaYowsa 2 weeks ago
@HowsaBowsaYowsa The object of competitive skating is to win...no matter her assets, Sasha was not a winner. Who cares about her style, difficult moves, connecting steps or spirals...none of those attributes resulted in Sasha becoming a champion. Michelle Kwan is a winner. She is a champion. She is a legend. She was smart enough to know that being conservative is often the right thing to do...playing daredevil in the name of art is idiotic. Sasha belonged in ice shows, not in competition...
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
Sasha didn't do well respectively as much as either Sarah, Irina and Michelle Kwan. Her spirals however were so beautiful to watch, but unfortunately, the same cannot be said of her falls. Michelle Kwan deserved as much respect as did Sasha, Irina and Sarah. Michelle performed a CLEAN program, as much as Sarah did. Had Sasha performed a clean program, she wouldn't be an underrated skater.
anne91276 1 month ago
@anne91276 im a huge michelle fan but she didnt skate clean at the 02 olympics, she fell on a triple flip. however saha's fall here was more disruptive, and michelle landed 2 jump combinations while sasha only landed 1. also sasha's footwork was shallow here
michiganisnotsoco 1 month ago
@michiganisnotsoco Oh, Michelle's falls were NEVER considered disruptive...ooooooh, she falls ever so gracefully.....oooooh, look at how she gets up and keeps going....oooooh, give her 5.9s or 6.0s for presentation....Sasha PAID for every little mistake and in spite of the mistake she EARNED the BRONZE!!!! At one Nats Kwan ***shock*** bit the ice and Dick Button blatantly said...'the judges will just give her a little wink'...sure enough.....another gifted Gold!!!
getrealandsee 4 weeks ago
@getrealandsee sasha's fall was square on her butt, and the more important part was that it was on a combination jump. that means sasha only had 1 combo in her lp while michelle had 2. and when it comes to paying for her mistakes i guess that's why sasha was given a 6.0 at nationals after falling splat on the ice during her swan lake program? btw news flash, kristi yamaguchi won olympic gold with a fall
michiganisnotsoco 3 weeks ago
@michiganisnotsoco Kwan couldn't do a combo and she fell on a very simple jump. No, she hasn't had multiple back to back clean programs either...she stumbles and bumbles but the judges overlook it for poor little wannabe Michelle....Kristi is a true champion...I watched her reaction to another skater and it was class all the way...if little shelly didn't have the gold handed to her it was not pretty...at all....also, since Kwan knew that NATS were all hers after Tara she didn't stress out!
getrealandsee 3 weeks ago
@getrealandsee BULLSHIT. kwan did 2 combos: 3lz-2l and 3t-2t (2footed) while sasha fell on one of her combos (much worse!) thus only getting 1 combo. even if u didnt count the programs where michelle had a slight bobble she stiill has tons of back2back clean competitions. both sarah/tara have spoken highly about their friendly off-ice relationship with michelle so ur full of crap. and kristi fell and doubled a jump yet won olympic gold yet you shit all over michelle for falling u psychopath
michiganisnotsoco 3 weeks ago
@anne91276
Michelle did not skate a clean long program. She fell on the triple flip. Most of her other jumps were small, tight, and guarded. She lacked oomph throughout the whole program. Sasha skated with spark and energy despite falling.
HowsaBowsaYowsa 1 month ago
@anne91276 Kwan is the most OVERRATED skater ever....very very rarely did she have two clean programs back to back....of course the judges overlooked stumbles and bumbles and gave her inflated scores....this is from Peggy Fleming btw....can't remember which video but it's out there....neither Kwan or Sasha skated clean but SASHA'S courageous risk filled and beautifully choreograped program was absolutely superior to Kwan's!!
getrealandsee 4 weeks ago
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michiganisnotsoco 3 weeks ago
@getrealandsee what is this historical revisionism? michelle has more back to back clean programs than most skaters, if not all. courage and risk filled? LMFAO. how many times did sasha even attempt a triple triple? what a myth! she couldn't stay upright even when trying to execute simple programs
michiganisnotsoco 3 weeks ago
@getrealandsee I firmly agree!!!!!!!! Sasha is a dream to watch!
MsPelicanus 2 weeks ago
@MsPelicanus AKA Getrealandsee..Sasha was not a dream to watch at the 2010 nationals...she was a nightmare on choke street lol
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
@MsPelicanus Yes she certainly is...graceful and her programs just flow...poetry in motion on the ice and from every interview I have seen a very accomplished and motivated young woman...and gorgeous as well. Sad that she skated during the wretched era and was denied her place in figure skating history...
getrealandsee 2 weeks ago
@getrealandsee ROFLMAO!!!! Um, in what era can one skate where falling 99.99% of the time is a winning formula? Can you please name a champion of ANY era who choked as much as Sasha did? You are among the most ignorant people I have ever encountered. The reason Sasha Cohen isn't a winner is because TRUE CHAMPIONS LAND JUMPS. TRUE CHAMPIONS SKATE CLEANLY WHEN IT MATTERS. TRUE CHAMPIONS BEAT KIMMIE MEISSNER AT THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. TRUE CHAMPIONS DON'T IMPLODE AT THE 2010 NATIONALS!!!!!!!!!
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
@getrealandsee It's not graceful or poetic to see a skater sprawled across the ice and splattered upon it. Sasha's falls, wobbles and bobbles disrupted her programs to such an extent that her artistry was severely diminished. NOT ONE credible skating expert or authority has EVER stated that Sasha's lack of titles is the result of ANYTHING other than HER OWN FAILURES. NOT ONE!! It's only her bitter, envious fans who find it much too painful to admit that she was much more style than substance.
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
@getrealandsee Kimmie Meissner had the talent to win a world title in the "wretched era"...there goes that "theory" ROFLMAO!!!!!!!
MissThingSings 2 weeks ago
sasha cohen choose be in 2 or 3 place
TeeISPT79 1 month ago
Sasha, beautiful graceful courageous, Sasha....the real BRONZE medalist!!
getrealandsee 1 month ago
@getrealandsee aka Allenglandlawns, etc...it's really kind of you to share your dreams, but in the real world medals are EARNED. You don't get to manufacture results, dear. Isn't it a shame that Sasha lacked the talent and heart to become a true champion? How unfortunate that you are still whining about results when every intelligent and rational person knows that Sasha's lack of titles is justified based on her unprecedented choking. She was a very gifted train wreck.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@getrealandsee
Sasha SO deserved the bronze medal here. Superior performance to Kwan in every element.
HowsaBowsaYowsa 1 month ago
@HowsaBowsaYowsa ABSOLUTELY.....and sport's writers and the general public (except for the crazed kwan defenders agree)!!! Sasha was just plain robbed....she fell but on a difficult jump and the rest of her program made Kwan's look more pathetic than it already did...crybaby Kwan wasn't even gracious about it....look at her on the podium...but now of course she touts it and brags....Sasha's program was full of risks and artistically beautiful...but Kwan had to take something shiny home...
getrealandsee 4 weeks ago
Omg she's SO flexible!!!
RhythmAddictedState 2 months ago
On the other hand, Sasha performed much better than Kimmie in a lots of areas, but when in competition, her consistency suffered. You can't expect Kimmie to skate with grace because Kimmie is NOT a graceful skater like Sasha has been. Kimmie could master a tough axel component because she works hard enough, just like Tonya Harding and Midori Ito. But Kimmie's axel isn't as explosive like Tonya and Midori!
anne91276 2 months ago
On so so many videos of the wannabe justification for her high marks after biting the ice and stumbling about...well, she DID complete 6 triples...Sasha EARNED the Bronze medal here...her program beat mediocre 'I deserve the Gold and will have it handed to me with a puked up watered down short **gifted first** and an easy long'...of course by the wannabe's standards her programs were olympic worthy.....Sasha was ripped off but she wasn't the only victim of the reeking era of the Kwan.
getrealandsee 3 months ago
@getrealandsee Boy, you sure are cranky...you must have just watched Sasha's LP from 2010 nationals ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!
MissThingSings 3 months ago
@getrealandsee Sasha Cohen was a victim? Remind me, at which world, Olympic or national competition did Sasha skate two clean programs and lose to someone who made an error? For that matter, tell me when Sasha EVER skated two clean programs at nationals, worlds or Olympics. Sasha doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Michelle Kwan...Sahsa isn't even as accomplished as Kimmie Meissner or Alissa Czinny! She couldn't even win when Michelle left the sport! Victim? LOLOLOL!!!
MissThingSings 3 months ago
@MissThingSings I think getreal is a real piece of work, but I don't think Sasha is without her own merit. She has many great qualities to her skating and she's recognized for that. All the skaters who make it to this level have something special about them.
RevShaqueefa 2 months ago
@RevShaqueefa I agree on both points...Getreal is a piece of "work" to put it mildly =) I also agree that Sasha had great qualities to her skating. Despite my criticism of her, I have always acknowledged her extraordinary artistry. I've qualified that, though, by stating that artistry is not enough...you have to have all of the pieces to the puzzle and actually win titles to be considered among the greats. Sasha's skating was gorgeous artistically, yet incomplete and one dimensional overall.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings explain how doing 6 triples, two in combination, and having exqusite artistry, balance, line, and position is ONE dimensional?
HowsaBowsaYowsa 2 months ago
@HowsaBowsaYowsa Sasha was one dimensional because she was an artistic skater...her jumping ability was highly suspect and she could never be depended on to land jumps or skate cleanly. She rarely, if ever, skated two clean programs consecutively, and she never did it in a major competition. That is one dimensional, certainly when compared to Kwan who skated cleanly MOST of the time, and who combined beautiful artistry with sound technique on her jumps. Michelle was in another league.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
LMBO, Sasha is not as accomplished as Kimmie Meissner or Alissa Czinny? You been hitting the bottle this holiday season?
HowsaBowsaYowsa 2 months ago
@HowsaBowsaYowsa I could hit five bottles and still land jumps more cleanly than Sasha Cohen lolol! Alissa is a TWO time national champion, Kimme is a World and national champion (beating Sasha at world's)...they are both more accomplished than Sasha.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings Im sorry but Alissa Cisney is nothing compared to sasha. Yes alissa has good spins but her jumps and artistry are far worse than sasha's. Yes kimmie may have had slightly better jumps than sasha, but in an all-round aspect of an accomplished skater, sasha is better
sk8ingcoach1 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 I am sorry, but you are wrong about Alissa. Alissa SHARES the same qualities that Sasha has and if you were a little more open minded or observant, you would have known that Alissa has faster spins and she also has gorgeous jumps when not having consistency problem like what Sasha used to have. The reason why Alissa is still having consistency problem is that her coach did an extremely poor job of coaching Alissa.
anne91276 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 What do you mean Alissa is "nothing" compared to Sasha? Alissa has managed to win two national titles...that's one more than Sasha was ever able to win. Kimmie has a national and world title, and she beat Sasha at worlds. While Sasha may be superior artistically, what matters most is actually winning...if gorgeous line and posture doesn't result in winning then it's a waste in terms of competitive skating. Sasha was not a complete skater...she was one dimensional and VERY erratic.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings Well if your talking about winning, i believe sasha has 3 world medals and 1 olympic medal which much more than Alissa has achieved. Kimmie only has a world gold medal but im pretty sure sasha beat kimmie at nearly every other international event.
sk8ingcoach1 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 The bottom line is that Kimmie won a world title and she beat Sasha to get it. That one title is more prestigious than anything Sasha ever won...which means Kimmie is more accomplished. I think Sasha was a beautiful skater, but she was an under-achiever and her fans give her far too much credit.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings Ok, i do agree about her fans giving her a lot of credit... But i dont believe the she was an under-achiever. Yes Kimmie beat sasha to get the world title, but sasha beat kimmie to win nationals, and beat kimmie get a silver at olympics... The only competition kimmie beat sasha was at worlds. Sasha won medals at many many events, they may not have always been gold but she still got medals.. So in the end, yes kimmie got the world title but sasha is not an under-achiever.
sk8ingcoach1 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 Sasha is an underachiever because, with her potential, she should have won tons of big titles. At the very least she should have been extremely competitive at world's, nationals and Olympics regularly. That she went her entire career being so erratic, never able to gain the mental toughness required to be a true champion, is just incredibly disappointing. I believe she was arrogant and difficult to coach..as a result a career that should have been extraordinary was anything but.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 My point is that a Kimmie Meissner should NEVER beat a Sasha Cohen! That Kimmie has a world title and Sasha doesn't is outrageous. Sasha had gifts that Kimmie could only dream about. IMO Sasha was arrogant and believed her own hype..she foolishly played musical coaches instead of sticking it out and doing the work. Too caught up in being an artist and not concerned enough with becoming a champion. This is why Michelle was so superior..except for firing Frank (stupid!) she got it.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings Ok i agree...
sk8ingcoach1 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 Okay, something is wrong here...a Sasha fan agreed with me?!?!?!? Next up: Peace on earth! =)
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings No No NO NO NO.......... Do not call me a sasha fan.. I am simply giving her a little more credit than you are. But in no case am i a sasha fan. Flexibility and good spins dont impress me, im a fan of those female skaters with the biggest, strongest and fastest jumps ( which sasha is not, and neither is kimmie )
sk8ingcoach1 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 Gotcha...I think her flexibility and spins were impressive, but certainly not as impressive as seeing a skater who best combined artistry and technical merit. It's a shame because she could have been extraordinary and one of the best ever. By the same token, watching someone like Irina was painful to me. She seems like a lovely person, but what she did in between jumps was just atrocious IMO.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings Except for Irina at 2005 Worlds.... Best performance ever !!!!!!!
sk8ingcoach1 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 Oh no...I'm sorry, I just find Irina to be incredibly sloppy and devoid of artistry. Her jumps are mile high for sure, and she certainly landed everything in the '05 world's LP, but the way she telegraphs her jumps just ruins the performance for me. I do like her though...she has always been classy and seems quite friendly.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings Sasha also has a gold and silver medal and the grand prix final where as kimmie has none.
sk8ingcoach1 2 months ago
@sk8ingcoach1 Grand prix finals are not nearly as prestigious as world's or nationals...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
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troy0515 2 months ago
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@getrealandsee pshycho! you are right, Michelle should have earned a gold here! was Michelle in your dream last night? was she talking you? or is she talking to you in your head right now? what an idiot!
troy0515 2 months ago
(cont) regimented and less artistic.
camille32087 4 months ago
I feel Sasha's artistry is very deserving of rewards. That stuff is hard to do, and you can tell because not many skaters can actually do it, nor are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to achieve such a talent. Unfortunately she is a bygone of an era that is more focused on the specific (one could say sometimes boring) aspect of jumping. This, I think, is ultimately rather limiting to the sport as it chisels away at the acceptance of innovation as the sport becomes more
camille32087 4 months ago
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@camille32087 If the discussion is simply about artistry, then Sasha was an amazing skater. However, competitive figure skating is not just about artistry, nor is it about entertainment or innovation. It is about combining artistry with athleticism and execution. Despite her tremendous artistic gifts, it really is a shame that she was never able to develop into a true champion due to her inability to master jumps and lack of mental toughness.
MissThingSings 4 months ago
I'm sorry but Sasha Cohen performance wasn't worthy of a bronze medal. No, Michelle Kwan didn't get a bronze medal out of pity.....SHE EARNED IT! Sasha Cohen under rotated on both jumps of her combination Triple Lutz/Triple Toe AND FELL!
DaTallOne25 5 months ago
@DaTallOne25 Sasha's program had more grace and flow than Kwan's...she may have fallen but she fell on a jump that was very difficult...Kwan didn't even manage a triple triple and she two footed the landing even after the downgrade...then she bit the ice....and then there is the fact that Kwan in NO WAY shape or form should have been 1st after that watered down puked up short....No, Sasha earned the bronze medal and not just earned it was miles ahead of Kwan...Sasha's program was Olympic worthy!
getrealandsee 5 months ago
@getrealandsee Sasha Cohen competed against Michelle for nearly a decade..in the experienced eyes of those who judged them, Michelle was far superior overall. I think Sasha was a gorgeous artist, but she was one dimensional and too mentally fragile to be a true champion. I know you love to throw out the big pro-Kwan judging conspiracy as an excuse for Sasha's failures, but one need only look at Kimmie Meissner's trophy case to know the truth. Sasha was a beautiful skater but not a true champion.
MissThingSings 4 months ago
@MissThingSings But at this time, February 2002, Sasha and Kwan had only competed a couple of years at most together. There was still heavy heavy Kwan favoritism left over from the late 90s.
HowsaBowsaYowsa 4 months ago
@HowsaBowsaYowsa The idea of Kwan favoritism is really unfounded...except for the fact that judges usually favor skaters who skate cleanly over those who don't. That's how it is supposed to be. This program is typical of Sasha...beautiful artistry combined with disaster. That is not a winning combination and no judge should reward her profound inconsistency just because she had great lines and posture. Michelle won regularly because she was clean, consistent and technically sound.
MissThingSings 4 months ago
@DaTallOne25 I am certain if this had been under the newer scoring system (COP) then Sasha would have easily been on the podium after this performance, not Kwan. Her grade of execution alone would have kicked Kwan to 4th place when all was said and done. Don't get me wrong, I think Kwan had a good artistic impression on the ice, but nothing that could quite match Sasha's perfect lines, positions, and stretch.
HowsaBowsaYowsa 4 months ago
@HowsaBowsaYowsa I don't understand how anyone can speak with certainty about what Sasha would do under any circumstances because she was entirely erratic and unpredictable. First, the excuse is that judges favored Kwan and the 6.0 system was flawed...but Sasha Cohen never dominated skating under ANY system. She was a great artist for sure..gorgeous. But she was a total head case. And, she didn't just miss difficult jumps she frequently botched the easiest of elements. Why alter facts???
MissThingSings 4 months ago
@fastandflexiblesk8er did you read Sasha's autobiography?
TheFraa94 6 months ago
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getrealandsee 6 months ago
Sasha is just unbelievable and underrated. Just amazing. The jumps, spins, footwork, and that amazing spiral. Breathtaking talent. Her first major international debut and she made America proud with her phenomenal skating.
allenglandlawns 7 months ago
@allenglandlawns Absolutely...incredible choreography in both the short and the long...Sasha should have been 1st after the short period!! She so earned and deserved the Bronze medal here and it's sickening to hear Kwan tout that pity bone medal thrown to her...on the podium her body language SCREAMED 'I am Michelle Kwan...how DARE the judges not hand that Gold Medal over'. Arrogant, rude, and a very very poor sport. I sincerely hope that Kwan eats her heart out every day!
getrealandsee 6 months ago
@getrealandsee Sasha DEFINITELY should have been on that podium for sure! But Kwan gets pity points for choking again. I guess if you make that much money and hang around that long, you're bound to get a medal for participation... even at the expense of the deserving athlete who earned it. In a way, I'm glad Kwan was handed the bronze. Gives the world a chance to witness the waterworks and expose the REAL Kwan.... so arrogant... trying to show Sarah how to step to the top... like she knows!
allenglandlawns 6 months ago
@allenglandlawns You're right. To see her and observe her body language is most amusing and she was handed the bronze as kind of an honorable mention. Yep...hang on forever and ever and ever and ever...screw other skaters, hog the spotlight for as long as possible....cheat, lie, spit on the Olympic creed...yeah...for sure Kwan simply absolutely had to show the Olympic Gold Medalist how to climb to the top of the podium. She was totally not going to allow anything to take the focus off of herself
getrealandsee 6 months ago
she is awesomeee!
smoggle 8 months ago
Guys , do now wich part of the music she uses????????
gabi9810 8 months ago
Which cuts from Carmen does she use?
Janafan4Ever 9 months ago
I love her artistry. I look up to both Sasha and Michelle Kwan, they are both just so artistic, i hope i can be as artistic as them some day.
strawberrykiwi20a 1 year ago 2
I love the quality of this video. Lovely Sasha is even lovelier in HD. This is one of my favorite Sasha programs. So energetic, quality spins, fast spins, centered spins, great jumps, incredible stretch and balance. She is the best.
HowsaBowsaYowsa 1 year ago
@HowsaBowsaYowsa You leave out the fact that she's a poor sport and thug. But you would because those elements of her character are not attractive or sexy.
JNagarya 7 months ago
@JNagarya If you are speaking of Sasha Cohen you are blowing smoke out of your a.. If you want to talk poor sports and thugs talk about Michelle 'I wanna try again so I will lie and cheat...I will petition and I will embarrass both the US Olympic Team and the very sport of figure skating...I will crap on the Olympic Creed and to heck with Emily Hughes...KWAN'. You don't have to use a club to be a THUG!!
getrealandsee 6 months ago
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@HowsaBowsaYowsa You are absolutely right! Sasha was totally ripped off...this was so much better than Kwan's This program was of Olympic caliber..complex, gorgeous coreography, and when Sasha fell she fell on a much more difficult jump than Kwan even attempted...it's maddening to hear...1 mistake....Kwan made more than 1 mistake..Sasha Cohen is the true Bronze medalist
for the 2002 Olympics. Kwan touts that medal but it was just a pity bone thrown to her at Sasha's expense of course.
getrealandsee 6 months ago
天才
ikiikiikiiki 1 year ago