Like many other people, Krugman can't understand that the people on the other side of the argument actually have good reasons for opposing his ideas and aren't just evil or lying. When he conducts polls like this, that show that the Canadian health care system actually isn't that popular, he exposes that he was so ignorant that he couldn't see beyond his own point of view and makes himself look foolish.
@EGarrett01 It is quite clear, from real poll after poll after poll, that our system is VERY popular with 80 to 90% being more than satisfied with the care they have received, with more than 90% never wanting a for profit, insurance run system of the U.S.
For emergency care, Canada has a good system, for secondary injuries it is still good. For elective, it is a joke. But overall, probably better than the U.S. Free market would be better than both, however.
My relatives from Canada used to love their healthcare system...UNTIL they got old and needed to get REAL surgery done. My aunt has been waiting 2 years to get knee surgery. Her doctor told her, "If you want to get this procedure done immediately, go to the states and just pay cash." Ha ha, she's still waiting.
@natazer My brother saw an ortho 3 weeks ago, has his knee surgery next month. In Ontario, posted wait times come in at an average wait of a few months. Where does your 'aunt' live? How long does one wait in the States when they don't have the 'cash'????
People seem to be careless with the word FREE. Health care in CA is free if you aren't from CA, you go there & exploit their tax funded health care system. That a side their system is not free. Life expectancy in CA is higher than in the US but out comes are better in the US. If there were real competition in the US health care system prices would be driven down making it a good system.
Hmmm. Seems to me like the American System is broken. But is the Canadian system flawless? The Canadian system while cheap ($3000/person/year) limits choice. This limit of choice means that wait lists are long, and our available treatments are limited. Government controls price by limiting service. I think that price should be controlled through capitalist competition. But thats just me.
* 15% on the first $41,544 of taxable income, + * 22% on the next $41,544 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $41,544 and $83,088), + * 26% on the next $45,712 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $83,088 and $128,800), + * 29% of taxable income over $128,800.
FACT. most Canadians prefer their system over ours in the US. Fox news ( the republican propaganda machine ) lies and makes it like you wait years for basic care. Simply not true.
@IndieBudgetMovie Yeah thats why they come to the USA to get treated by our horrible healthcare system. Liberalism is a Severe Mental Disorder and you prove it.
@nytmstr Yo numbnuts.. is that why Sarah Palin went to Canada as a kid for health care ??? Canada spends Less per person on health care. they have a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality. So what if "som" come into the US for care. Not "ALL" sheesh
@nytmstr FACT Canadians have a HIGHER life expectancy ( Canada 81 > US 78 ) and LOWER Infant mortality than people in the US. Canadians pay LESS for health care, and about the same in taxes. The Canadian Govt pays 70% of health costs and they pay $2500 a year per capita ( << big words, get an educated liberal to explain ) The US Govt pays $3,000 per capita and pays 45% of all health care administered in the US
Study finds Paul Krugman is the most partisan economist. Krugman was the only economist to "significantly" change his stances for partisan reasons. Krugman has even gone so far as to contradict his own findings to bash Republican politicians. - Brett Barkley, Econ Journal Watch, May 2010
@islandmuffin That is a crock of shit. When Americans were asked what type of care in the US they are most satisfyed with TRICARE is 1. The VA is 2. and Medicare is 3. If you say that the US system is better than Canadian SIngle-Payer you would be laughed out of the room and shown the door.
Google: Americans in Canada prefer U.S. health care: poll, Americans living in Canada prefer the U.S. health-care system for speed, quality and diagnostic technology, says a new study
The thing Americans like about most about Canada is that you all are good for a laugh, with your funny accents and the loony ducks on your money. Come on! A duck representing one dollar! LOL!
@islandmuffin Like I said in that survey they were talking about one of the 3 that I mentioned. That WAS NOT a survey comparing Americas for-profit insurance companys with Canadian Single-Payer system. No Canadian in there right mind would trade Single-Payer for American for-profit insurance companys.
@genYprogressive That's an assertion with a lot of empirical evidence. The Prime Minister of Canada came to the US for a medical operation, so that's at least one right there.
@underdg22 This has nothing to do with the healthcare providers it is about the healthcare system. The fact that wealthy Canadians come here for care is beside the point. The majority of Canadians that come here do it for Elective Care not Primary Care. People that bring this up are deverting attention away from the fact that the for-profit insurance system has been a miserable failure and nobody would trade Single-Payer for that.
@genYprogressive Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Around 90% of new medical patents come from the United States. That's a fact you can look up. Just like Soviet healthcare, socialized medicine in Canada or Britain suffers from ageism and long waitinglists.
@underdg22 Where do you get your info from? No Prime Minister of Canada came to the U.S> for an operation. In addition, the U.S. made up 47% of medical patents from 1996 to 2000. Just a wee bit below your 90% claim.
@MadHabber93 When you start typing prime minister of Canada it finishes with heart surgery and that's the surgery he had in America. You're research is pathetic.
@underdg22 I love when idiots like you spew shit, thinking they're smart, not realizing there is A HUGE FUCKIN difference between the PM of Canada and the Premier of Newfoundland. That is the case you are referring too. Dipshit. Try researching better sunshine. ROFL
@MadHabber93 What's the difference really? The underlying point was that someone well-off in Canada prefers to come to the United States for an important medical operation. That fact has been in no way refuted.
@underdg22 What's the difference??? You're an idiot for spouting off my research is pathetic first of all. 2nd, the Premier had his doctor buddy from New York recommend a surgeon in Miami. The procedure requires 12 weeks recovery time. Let's see, he could recover 12 weeks in the middle of winter in Toronto or Montreal or in his Sarasota, Florida condo. When you're a multi-millionaire, you have that option. What about the milllions of Americans that don't?
@MadHabber93 You're argument is that noone would prefer America's system to a single payer system when the fact is that people who can afford top end care come here, therefore you are wrong.
@underdg22 Is that your actual argument??? ROFL. Recent polls put satisfaction of our care at 90%, with only 10% rating it poorly. In addition, another recent poll also pegs those whose support our Universal Care system over an Insurance run system like yours at 90%, with only 8% wanting the U.S. system. So yes, its not none, but very few. And I'm one that could afford going south, but why would I. We live longer here sunshine.
@MadHabber93 WHERE on earth are those polls ? 90% US satisfied...what a fricking LIE ! why did Obama win in a landslide w/ HC Reform as the main part of his platform. FACT most Americans do not like HC Reform, what is not stated by FIXED News is that a good number who are not happy w/ reform think it did not go FAR ENOUGH !
@MadHabber93 I had a bud here say he worked w/ Canadians and he said 30 Canadians I work w/ all state they pay 50% taxes just for health care... frickin lie huh ? Canadians pay 15 - 29% income tax is all. ( 29% for over 110,000 )
@IndieBudgetMovie Exactly. Someone making say 70 grand a year would pay roughly 25% in federal and provincial income taxes. And that's before any tax write offs.
Respond to this video... SO 70 grand they would pay 19% on first 36-41,000 then approx 22% of 29,000 up to 70,000 for a total of 14,170.00 which is roughly 21% you did not do too well in math huh ???
@IndieBudgetMovie Indie, when I said 25%, I said roughly without double checking. However, I could have saved you a whole of calculating by just referring you to this income tax calculator, that will do it for you for every province except Quebec.
walterharderDOTca/T1.asp
For the record, someone making 70 G's in Ontario will pay $15,180. 63 in income taxes before any write offs or 21.87%. Cheers.
Respond to this video... Read the Canadian Tax code... the lowest rate applies to ALL income groups..15% federal and 4.3% provincial on first 36-41,000 .. I re-checked my math and someone making 70,000 would pay roughly 22% taxes total for both Fed & Provincial for a total of $15,800 ...
Goods and Services Tax (GST) is a Value Added Tax introduced by the Federal Government in 1991 at a rate of 7%, later reduced to the current rate of 5%. Advertised prices for goods generally do not include taxes; instead, tax is calculated at the cash register. Basic groceries, prescription drugs, inward/outbound transportation and medical devices are exempt.
Respond to this video... just google "What are the income tax rates in Canada" so no not 50% . Buy you one of them fancy caculators Al Gore invented.. not too hard to use
90% of Americans support social security, that doesn't make it a good system. 90% of Americans believe this guy name Jesus died for their sins. 90% of 1930's Germans believed removing Jews was a great idea!
Popularity doesn't make a position correct. Facts do. Something socialists have never had on their side.
@underdg22 People who can afford "top end care" have an unwarranted privilege; what they can afford shouldn't be relevant. They have no right to superior healthcare in a just and equitable society.
@hatchbx That might be the worst argument I've ever heard. Do people who are wealthier have no right to superior cars, houses, jobs, home entertainment systems, computers, food, beverages, and hookers either? Gimme a break. If you really believe that everyone should have exactly the same everything move to Fantasyland where that's possible.
@hatchbx Besides the simple and obvious point I made before, the "top end" luxury goods today become the goods of the masses tomorrow as long as you have economic freedom. X-rays, penicillin, ultrasounds, and CAT scans were once considered top-end care just like cell phones and personal computers were only available to a few rich people 25 years ago. That's the beauty of capitalism.
You don't seem to know anything about free markets and capitalism. You're just another emotional lefty who has been brainwashed by his socialist Canadian government. You're an impulsive reactionary twat. Think before you form opinions, dipshit.
@TimeWarp66 Your replying from a post that is 11 months old?? WTF?? I don't understand free market and capitalism?? I work in sales sunshine. You don't understand our system you ignorant fuck. Even your Heritage Foundation rates Canada as more economically free than the U.S. Not to mention the CONSERVATIVE PARTY has been in power here for 5 years and was just re-elected. Think before spewing opinions?? Take your own advice and stop speaking about country you clearly know JACK SHIT ABOUT
@TimeWarp66 Oh, poor baby, does the little word 'fuck' offend your sensitive IGNORANT ears. Grow the fuck up and get the FACTS straight idiot. Bwah hahahahaha
@TimeWarp66 No Americans go to Canada?? You still like to spew lies eh? In 1993 alone, 60,000 Residents of the U.S. fraudently used the Ontario healthcare system to obtain free healthcare.
Not to mention the 750,000 Americans that went abroad to other countries in 2007 to obtain healthcare they couldn't afford at home. That number was predicted to go well into the millions in 2010.
Based on your 'vote with their feet' comment, looks like your system blows donkeys. Nice.
@Visfen Gov't healthcare has nothing to do with it sunshine. Those people used fake cards to get free care. Ontario has since changed to photo insurance cards to prevent fraud. Nice try though.
@Visfen WTF are you talking about it. They were Americans living in the States using FAKE cards. Landed immigrants get full coverage after 3 months of residency. They can buy insurance to cover them during that time. Do you even know anything about our system??
@Visfen Umm, not they can't. If you have a major illness, you just won't be 'let' in. And are you aware how long it takes to get into our country?
And the gov't does not 'run' our system. They provide the insurance. Doctors and hospitals are privately run here. That's the common mistake about our system. No insurance company in North America, ie. the States, provides the level of coverage our provincial gov'ts provide.
@MadHabber93 Yes they do, they pay for it, they regulate it. If privately run means that you pay someone to do something, then every system in the world is private.
You might like slavery, I don't.
More over, they got better health care in the US, as you actually get care, not just to stand in a line and die.
@Visfen Our gov'ts don't regulate it. The might regulate prices, but those are NEGOTIATED with the hospitals and the doctors, not just dictated.
Spare with your slavery crap.
We don't stand in line and die nitwit. Show me ONE study where any significant number of Canadians die due to wait times. We wait for non-urgent procedures like hip replacement, not emergency heart surgery.
While the in the U.S., 45,000 people die EVERY year due to lack of access to care due to cost.
@Visfen Your premise that gov't insurance is slavery is no different than saying Private insurance is. If fact, it is more. Once you are covered in our system, YOU ARE ALWAYS covered. While your Utopia U.S. system denies payment, coverage, and simply drops patients that need the coverage the most. The truly sick.
Now spare me your ignorance of our system and move on. Thanks for coming out though.
@MadHabber93 Yes it is. You're not forced to pay for private insurance.
I don't want to be covered, I want to get care. The difference is huge. Though not measured by the welfare economists at WHO, which all praise Amartya Sen.
The US system is far from free market or private. Half of it is government financed and the rest of it has mandates in abundance.
Spare me your inane ramblings of how good it is to work for the state. Not all of us are mindless retarded drones. Some of us are free men.
@MadHabber93 So you mean I pay taxes so that other people can drive on them when I don't even have a car. I pay for other peoples services I don't want or use. I pay for murder. Study some Proudhon or Rothbard, rather the later.
At least since taxation we've been slaves. Taxation is slavery. Read Robert Nozick.
No, you don't get care. You get to stand in a line. That is what coverage means. And people die in this line.
Move to Somalia? Haha, then move to North Korea. Same argument...
@Visfen Not even close to the same argument dipshit. Its called communism...look it up.
And what line??? Do you live here?? That's right YOU DON"T. So go fuck yourself and what you 'think' what we have here. And just ignore that one who cannot afford care doesn't even get in the line.
And I stand in the line that provides one of THE longest life spans on the planet.
You must be going ape shit living in Sweden, one of THE highest taxed Euro countries. Too bad, so sad.
@MadHabber93 So telling someone to move if they don't like it, is not the same argument as telling someone to move if the don't like it?
Are you daft? You have longer lines in Canada.It's one of the reason it is cheaper, because you don't have as high of a capacity. It's a fact of life and economics. You get longer lines.
I don't want to ignore them. I want a market for care.
Yes, I don't like that. But our capital taxes are really low, 0% actually with kapitalförsäkring. So I like that.
@Visfen Not as high of a capacity?? When we cover EVERYONE?? You are the daft one.
A market for care? Like this supposed utopia free market?? That will NEVER work in healthcare. Like I've told others who believe that bullshit too. Bring the price down on REALLY expensive care in a 'free market' is still REALLY FUCKING EXPENSIVE. That's why lines are shorter in the U.S., you eliminate 1/3 of the line. They just don't get care and die. Nice system. Keep it.
@MadHabber93 Omg, you are really not getting this. Think of it this way. You have two systems of car mechanics, one where people go in an fix the car directly, another where you go in and have to wait until they have room. The second deals with more clients, but the first one has to be able to deal with them quicker. Which one has to have higher capacity?
Never work? It worked fine before WWII. Health care inflation didn't even take of until medicare, medicaid and the HMO act.
@Visfen I get it sunshine. It worked before WWII?? Did you actually speak to people that lived back then? Do you know how many just went without care? Again, they didn't even get in the bloody line. Not to mention, healthcare in the 40's vs. the high tech high cost of healthcare today?? You can't compare it nor expect it to work even remotely the same.
But you seem to be stuck on this line thing. Let me repeat this. THERE IS NO LINE FOR URGENT CARE here. PERIOD!
@MadHabber93 Uh, no. But there's data on this. Everyone got care, because before medicare half of the time doctors worked for free, they just saw it as their duty to help the poor and less fortunate. Medicare started paying for something that was otherwise free.
High tech cost? Technology makes health care cheaper, not more expensive! Sure it's better now, but we're richer as well.
@Visfen Work for free?? That's your argument?? Tell you what, go back to the States and tell the doctors to just forgo their pay and not to worry about their medical school debts because its their duty to work for free.
2nd, are you on crack? CT scans, laser machines, modern medical equipment etc. routinely used in daily healthcare is EXTREMELY expensive and did not EXIST 40 years ago. Healthcare costs have ballooned across the world, most due to technology.
@MadHabber93 That's what they did. It's a documented fact. There are other ways to finance it though. Cooperative local organizations was very popular in the US before FDR killed them with the new deal with SS and such crap.They could deal with that
Do you even understand what technology is for? You think we use these things to make it more expensive?
The primary driving factor is that there's no market for making care cheaper. What would be the point in such an innovation in the current state?
@Visfen Its not a question of using things to make things more expensive. It just becomes more expensive. What did they do before CT scans. Just X-rays. But CT catches more, and earlier. They are also more expensive than X-rays. You need higher paid techs to run them. And by discovering a disease and making it treatable, results in a higher cost of treatment vs. someone just being dead.
@MadHabber93 It just? No it doesn't. No other market functions that way. You know why? Because in other markets you can make money making stuff cheaper - not just better. In a market where the government set the price, you have no profit, so you get no gain.
And there's no reason to just implement this across the line. We should have varying qualities of care. If you're richer you can buy better, if you're poorer you might by just 1990s worth of care. Just like cars.
@Visfen You want a system where the rich get better care. I want a system where the rich and poor get the same GREAT care like we have in our system. Can we improve wait times for non-urgent care, sure, but that can be done. Your system leaves the less fortunate and truly sick who can't afford the large bills, behind. Again, move to Somalia. You'll love it there. Love to keep up this up, but its bed time here. Get back to me with real stats and studies. I know I can back my claims.
@MadHabber93 You don't "get" care. You buy it. Yes, I think if you pay more you should get better care.
Well you can't have such a system. Doesn't even matter that you like your government system, it is not going to survive unless you have an ever expanding younger population. Which is why we see most countries in Europe, and Canada as well, in some way opening up for private competition.
No we don't leave them behind. Stop using the government as a god of gaps argument.
@MadHabber93 So what if it is expensive? How does that matter? You have insurance for that very reason. Not fore regular check ups and minor surgery. You have insurance for catastrophic cost that will wipe you out.
One third? :D And it doesn't work that way.
And the US is not a current example of a market in health care. You can't even buy insurance across state lines. You can't say what you want in your plan, that is decided by the states (now feds with obamacare). It's not a free market...
@Visfen How does it matter if its expensive?? Even people WITH insurance in the States forgo treatment due to the high cost of decuctibles or copays. Not to mention, most insurance in the STATES sucks compared to what we get covered. Not to mention most are CAPPED. So your catastrophic coverage is horseshit.
@MadHabber93 No, most insurance in the US doesn't suck. If you got insurance in the states you got the best care in the world as measured by quality of care and results. The problem have always been those that fall out of the system.
You're talking about health insurance that is completely designed by states regulatory agencies. How is that even a market? There's an abundance of ridiculous rules, now it's going to get even worse, as the federal government is taking over that.
@Visfen Quality of care results? Care to show me. As the U.S. does not have the best Quality of care results.
And have you been to Canada? A Canadian hosptial?? I'm not even saying ours is THE best, but its some of the best care you will receive and on par with ANY nation. I know this, because A. I LIVE HERE and B. I work in the Pharma industry and know about the medical industry.
@MadHabber93 Yes they do. If you look at things like cancer care results, surgery results, nr of MRI-machines etc. they have better results.
Why do I have to, it isn't pertinent to this discussion. Have you ever read a book about economics? That's a more important question.
You might know about the medical industry but you don't know about the free market alternative, that much is clear. But great news for you, you basically work for a government funded industry then, no wonder you like them.
@Visfen I have looked at cancer results. Looking at 2010 cancer care 5 year survival rates, Canada is virtually on par with the States. Not to mention our mortality rates are lower per 100,000. Of course, in our system, we didn't have 2 MILLION Americans simply forgoing further cancer treatment because they couldn't afford it. Not to mention countless who had to re-mortgage a home just to pay for their care. And show me these surgery results. I'll show you different.
@MadHabber93 The health care bankruptcy myth? Omg, that study was total crap. If you even had a cousin that was sick, then they counted it to the number one cause of bankruptcy.
Either way, there is no metric for calculating which system is better than another, that is why you need a market to evaluate these things.
Private Pharma in Canada? That's new. And which is your biggest market for new products then?
@Visfen And I said I work in Pharma, which a PRIVATE industry here and NOT just gov't funded. Our company does not get gov't money, but thanks for your additional ignorance.
@MadHabber93 I pay 80 dollars a month for my healthcare.. I have private healthcare.. I've used it some but not a ton.. But a year ago I had something major happen.. I went to the doctor, he immediately made me see a specialist, he immediately got me into surgery and took care of the problem at a cost of my 500 dollar deductible.. From begging to end it took less than 2 weeks.. Imagine my surprise when my Canadian friend told me it would have been over a year before I would have gotten that..
@SuperGuitarman69 Imagine that anecdotal evidence means means sweet fuck all. Imagine that MILLIONS of Americans forgo needed and necessary treatment because they couldn't afford it. WHat surgery??
@SuperGuitarman69 Imagine that anecdotal evidence means means sweet fuck all. Imagine that MILLIONS of Americans forgo needed and necessary treatment because they couldn't afford it. WHat surgery??
@MadHabber93 Gall stones. Life threatening.. And no one in the United States goes without healthcare.. In all instances when someone doesn't have insurance they can work out a payment method with the hospital and or doctor.. If it is an emergency they get right in without even being checked if they are a citizen.. So this myth perpetrated about citizens dying in the streets is insulting to our institutional physicians and hospitals.. Unwarranted propaganda. By your government and our leftists
@MadHabber93 Gall stones. Life threatening.. And no one in the United States goes without healthcare.. In all instances when someone doesn't have insurance they can work out a payment method with the hospital and or doctor.. If it is an emergency they get right in without even being checked if they are a citizen.. So this myth perpetrated about citizens dying in the streets is insulting to our institutional physicians and hospitals.. Unwarranted propaganda. By your government and our leftists
@MadHabber93 Your system costs the average Canadian upwards of 14k a year in hidden taxes.. (inflation) businesses that are taxed to pay for the system passes it on to you.. You have waiting periods for care.. In small cases not a problem,, But healthcare should be considered for life threatening problems.. In that case? Canadian care is deplorable.. It is not a sound system.. If the world economy crumbles Canadians well see that program vanish.. And the results will be catastrophic
@SuperGuitarman69 It doesn't come close to that figure. YOu have sources to back that up. We have waiting periods for non-urgent care, not urgent care. PERIOD. I know this because I LIVE HERE. I always love it when an American calls our system deplorable yet 90% of us FULLY support it. Canada's debt to GDP ratio is the lowest in the G8. If the world economy crumbles, the U.S. goes well before us. Your system leaves wait times of forever for MILLIONS. Again, what surgery?
@MadHabber93 Of course you support it.. You do not know anything different.. You have never seen freedom in healthcare.. 280 million people in our country has private healthcare.. NOT taking money from business owners or other citizens, they own it and pay for it themselves.. And you are saying we will crumble first? It will never happen.. Let me explain.. We have a constitution that prohibits the government from taking away our rights.. Which means that the Federal Reserve DOESN'T OWN Part1
@SuperGuitarman69 Freedom in healthcare? You mean an insurance company telling you what hospital or clinic or doctor you are allowed to see? I've been treated in that States. I waited 15 hours in a smelly Dallas ER. I've never waited that long here before EVER. Have you been to Canada? Have you used our system? Then YOU know no difference.
I'll ask for the third time what surgery did you get that you think I'd wait a year for? And how long would one wait in the States with no insurance?
@MadHabber93 Yes I have.. I am NOT a fan.. Look, you are defending the indefensible.. There are problems with our healthcare.. But is NOT the insurance companies that are making the costs go up.. It is government. So while you praise your government controlling every aspect of your life, we choose to not have it because government sucks.. And I have one of the best hospitals on earth not 2 miles from me.. I'll stay here thank you very much.. And with no insurance? Wouldn't matter.. Part 1
@SuperGuitarman69 The gov't controls every aspect of my life? Really guy, spare me your ignorance. Even your beloved Heritiage Foundation rates Canada more economically free than the U.S. You clearly don't have a clue what its like here.
@MadHabber93 NO ONE is turned down for care. Why do you think you were waiting in Dallas? Did you happen to notice all the Mexicans around? If you say there wasn't any? Then you are full of shit.. Because they are illegal and taking advantage of our care.. Do you think they have insurance? And yet there they were in the Dallas er weren't they? Think about that insurance line again.. And fyi? I choose my doctor.. If my insurance does? I can get different insurance. See, that is freedom..
@SuperGuitarman69 There were ZERO mexicans. The guy beside me had a clearly broken hand and was there since 3 pm.....the day before. And you are only not turned down for ER care, not continued care for chronic conditions. That's why 2 MILLION Americans forgo needed cancer treatment last year because they could no longer afford the treatment.
You are under a delusion that you have freedom. I NEVER have to wait to see if I'm covered for any procedure, as we ALWAYS are.
@SuperGuitarman69 And I'll ask you for the FOURTH FUCKING TIME, What surgery did you get that you think I would have to wait a year for??????????????????
@SuperGuitarman69 And 280 Million Americans don't pay for themselves? They don't take money from business owners for their healthcare?? 60% of employers provide some form of healthcare insurance.
And I'm also still waiting for your 14K claim, as it more in the range of 2 grand, and I can provide proof of that.
@MadHabber93 Even at that, it is even admitted by your government that your healthcare system in it's current state is unsustainable.. Not my words, theirs... Which is only plausible.. Nothing is free. The only real way of saving it is to force businesses or individuals to pay more or go private.. Otherwise it will collapse the economy.. That is why Obamacare will be gone in 2012.. One thing about leftists, they still believe 4 - 8= 12.. It doesn't work.. But as I said, our government and Part1
@SuperGuitarman69 Whose theirs?? As I can provide two links showing our system is still VERY sustainable. One from a major economics professor from Harvard. Heard of that school? Its a myth perpetuated from the right that its not. I think you need to look at your system before casting your bullshit.
And I find it very telling that you don't tell me this surgery you received. And I bet you are partially covered by an employer for your health insurance too?!
@MadHabber93 yours are pushing for one world government.. Which as I have stated.. We will NEVER do as a country.. There are stupid leftists here.. You see them all the time. Olbermann, Obama, Krugman, Maher on and on.. But they are not the bulk of the country. They own our media, but they do not own common sense and rationality.. And the desire of freedom and liberty.. So when they push us towards our demise? We will fight.. By force if necessary.. We are American. Free and proud..
@MadHabber93 Stupid and gullible huh? You are the ones who had the opportunity to pay for healthcare privately to get faster service and you voted it down.. IMO that is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.. And your little attack there? Doesn't carry weight.. Blatant attacks like that are sucker punches when one is out of validity in debate. You have ran your course so you resort to offending and entire nation? That shows your colors right there..
@SuperGuitarman69 Go back and crawl under your redneck rock with your force bullshit. I'm sure you are one the same people that say, we want our American back?? We'll take it back!!!! Who fucking took it?? Spare me.
@SuperGuitarman69 You can't argue with someone like "MadHabber93" He trolls youtube looking for criticisms of Canada and vents his frustration that he lives there. He jumped into a conversation I was having about Obamacare and went on and on about how the U.S. sucks compared to Canada. No about of information would pursuade him. In the end I left him sputtering the f-word and calling me an idiot. He's a troll. Just remind him that Bruins beat the Canucks and his head will probably explode.
@kbar8888 LOLOLOLOL Dude you are awesome.. Yeah he just resorted to calling us Americans stupid and gullible.. Funny how the most powerful and advanced country on the planet is full of stupid and gullible people huh?
@SuperGuitarman69 And I actually like the States and Americans. But I can't stand ignorant ass one's that think their shit doesn't stink and spew crap they clearly know nothing about. You want your system that costs FAR more than ours, with no better results, leaves Millions behind, causes countless bankruptcies...that's fine keep it. But don't think you can drag our system down and just make shit up just to try to prop your failing system up. Educated people like me will call you on it.
@MadHabber93 Lol.. You are misinformation.. No one goes bankrupt from healthcare bills.. They can pay 25 bucks for the rest of their lives for being in a hospital in a coma for a year.. And our shit doesn't stink? YOU will not even begin to look at the truth of your system. You defend it blindly. I will tell you our shortcomings (government).. And our system isn't failing.. Yours is.. If Obamacare goes through? Then yeah we can worry. And educated? I spent 7 years of my life studying economics
@MadHabber93 Lol.. You are misinformation.. No one goes bankrupt from healthcare bills.. They can pay 25 bucks for the rest of their lives for being in a hospital in a coma for a year.. And our shit doesn't stink? YOU will not even begin to look at the truth of your system. You defend it blindly. I will tell you our shortcomings (government).. And our system isn't failing.. Yours is.. If Obamacare goes through? Then yeah we can worry. And educated? I spent 7 years of my life studying economics
@kbar8888 That's because you are an idiot. And I don't like either hockey team dipshit.
And like SuperGut, you two fuck nuts are the ones spewing anecdotes, ignorance, and just plain bullshit. Good for you two. You can now be butt buddies. That's sooooo cute.
@MadHabber93 You don't like hockey. Well how am I supposed to believe you are actually Canadian? Oh wait, bad grammer, chip on your shoulder, love for socialism, and distain for the U.S.A, maybe you are Canadian after all. BTW, you're welcome for the 50 years that we kept the U.S.S.R from turning you into another satellite state.
@kbar8888 I didn't say I didn't like hockey. I said I don't either team. I love hockey.
Love football. Love soccer. Love golf. Hate idiots. Hate socailism. I'm a fiscal conservative that wants a system that costs less, produces great health outcomes, yet covers EVERYONE. That is NOT your system.
And your welcome for protecting you from the U.S.S.R. from going through us to get to you. Your welcome for allowing all those planes to land here on 9/11. Pick up a book dipshit.
@MadHabber93 You hate socialism but love socialized medicine? I think you're just another liberal, extolling the wonders of the capitalist society while you quietly work to undermine it. As for protecting the U.S.A from the U.S.S.R., thoses were not Canadian aircraft flying Operation Chrome Dome. And as for 9/11, I'm sure you think only the U.S. was attacked that day, but as Great Britian, Spain, and etc found out Islamofacists are at war with the West. So, you're welcome for Afganistan.
@kbar8888 There's a MASSIVE difference between socialized medicine and socialized insurance, which is what we have.
And why do you continue to be an ignorant ass. Hundreds of planes that were diverted away from the States were gladly accepted by us. With countless Americans being put up in their homes.
For Afghanistan, your welcome. We suffered major casualties, so thanks for being an ignorant ass again. Dick!!
@kbar8888 There's a MASSIVE difference between socialized medicine and socialized insurance, which is what we have.
And why do you continue to be an ignorant ass. Hundreds of planes that were diverted away from the States were gladly accepted by us. With countless Americans being put up in their homes.
For Afghanistan, your welcome. We suffered major casualties, so thanks for being an ignorant ass again. Dick!!
@MadHabber93 Canada did send almost 3,000 troops and suffer over 150 casualties, I can't believe I missed that compared to the 90,000 American troops suffering over 13,000 wounded and killed. But hey, you sent more troops than Poland, so I guess you are doing all you can to fight the War on Terrorism. But, there is no difference between socialized medicine and insurance. If you control the dollars you control the service. That is Capitalism 101, he who has the gold makes the rules.
@MadHabber93 Canada did send almost 3,000 troops and suffer over 150 casualties, I can't believe I missed that compared to the 90,000 American troops suffering over 13,000 wounded and killed. But hey, you sent more troops than Poland, so I guess you are doing all you can to fight the War on Terrorism. But, there is no difference between socialized medicine and insurance. If you control the dollars you control the service. That is Capitalism 101, he who has the gold makes the rules.
@kbar8888 We sent the third most troops I believe, and suffered the most casualties per captia of troops you ungrateful fuck. Then you wonder why some people hate Americans. Luckily I separate ignorant asses like you away from the good Americans.
And there's a big difference. In single payer insurance, docs, hospitals and clinics are all privately run while in socialized medicine, they are all employees of the gov't. MASSIVE difference. But I didn't anticipate you'd understand that.
@MadHabber93 It matters little if you are a "private" employee when the money you earn is not controlled by market forces but rather by a gov't commisar. The fact that you see a difference between a doctor who is paid only by the gov't and a doctor employed by that gov't just goes to show you don't know a thing about capitalism. Let's make it simple for you. Can a doctor in ask a patient to pay him $100 for an office visit? or $300? No. He must accept whever the gov't dictates as payment.
@kbar8888 The gov't doesn't dictate what the payment is. Its negotiated. Ever heard of that word? That is why, even though our healthcare costs are going up just like everyelse on the planet, it pales into comparison in your private utopia where doctors and hospitals RIP people off by OVER charging patients. And for the boutique clinics that have opened, yes, they can charge what they want. Hence why those clinics are also ripping people off here.
@kbar8888 The gov't doesn't dictate what the payment is. Its negotiated. Ever heard of that word? That is why, even though our healthcare costs are going up just like everyelse on the planet, it pales into comparison in your private utopia where doctors and hospitals RIP people off by OVER charging patients. And for the boutique clinics that have opened, yes, they can charge what they want. Hence why those clinics are also ripping people off here.
@kbar8888 I still find it comical that you have such an insecurity of your own broken system, that you continue to try to nitpick ours. Really dude. Give it a rest and pray to God you don't lose your insurance. Pray hard.
@MadHabber93 You really don't understand. I'm not defending any 3rd party payer system. There should be only two participants in healthcare: the professional providing the service and the patient who decides if it is worth his money. You say the U.S. system is broken, but it was broken by gov't bureaucrats. State bureaucrats control what insurance an individual can buy and give those co's power. If you were free to purchase insurance from any carrier, competition would lower costs.
@kbar8888 And who ever holds the gold, makes the rules. SO you admit, your system is insurance run and controlled. An insurance industry whose sole purpose is to profit off the backs of DEAD Americans. Nice system. Keep it.
YOu have 3 people in your doc office. The doc, the patient and the insurance agent. Nice.
@MadHabber93 Oh wait wait wait... Protecting us from the USSR? I just read that.. Come on bro.. Canada would not last 10 minutes past the former Soviet Union.. They would have ripped you to shreds.. They don't mess around.. best leave defense up to us.. And in regards to Canada? I love Canada.. I spend a lot of time up there due to the fact I am a musician.. I am a true conservative.. there is a difference between the 2.. And statism is statism.. Healthcare or not..
@SuperGuitarman69 Dude, I was playing with Ker. And for the record, you've never had to come to our defence, although I know you would. And I Love the States. I vacation there quite often, and grew up near the border. And I agree, there is a difference between you and me and our brand of conservatism. I'm a fiscal conservative, social Liberal. But your idea of our system is off. It just is. Fair enough?
@SuperGuitarman69 Dude, I was playing with Ker. I'm not stupid, I know they would. Its a play on words. But let's be clear, you've never come to our defence. And I love the States. Vacation there quite often. And I'm a fiscal conservative, social Liberal. 80% of Canadian conservatives still support our medicare system. Your ideas are just off about our system, just like Kers. Fair enough?
@MadHabber93 own us.. If it comes down to it? Just like President Jackson did, we will oust the Federal Reserve axe our debt and start printing our own money again.. Which is going to happen anyway.. The leftists in this country want one world government.. They hate our constitution.. But when the shit hits the fan? They will be history and so will the Federal Reserve.. You do not have that.. Your GDP? It is a farce.. It is fiat currency.. It isn't real.. You are owned and have no hope.
@MadHabber93 Oh and on that figure? You have to consider the rate at which you and business is taxed in Canada.. You take those figures and deduct all other programs.. Look at the rate of inflation based on fiat reserves, then fix in everyday expenditures.. I may be off a grand one way or the other.. But they are close.. Those figures are from last year.. Canadians are not economists.. They do not look at the whole picture.. They have blinders on.. I have noticed that..
@MadHabber93 And the reason our healthcare is so expensive is because government got into the mix.. If they wouldn't have and left it to the market? It would be cheaper.. Fro instance, in no elective surgeries? Such as cosmetic and eye surgery? (lasik) The costs have went DOWN due to competition.. Lasik used to be 10k an eye, now it is 500 an eye due to competition.. If they would do that all the way around? We would ALL just pay out of pocket.. Cheaper in the long run.
@MadHabber93 The 14k is in what is known as hidden taxation.. It is taken from the rate in which businesses are taxed based on the purposes of taxation.. That taxation is passed on to the customer in higher prices.. You take government expenditures on programs deducible based on taxation direct and indirect.. You take that and spread it across the rate of standard of living.. You adjust accordingly.. I have a degree in economics.. Canadians are notorious for not looking into things fully
@MadHabber93 The 14k is in what is known as hidden taxation.. It is taken from the rate in which businesses are taxed based on the purposes of taxation.. That taxation is passed on to the customer in higher prices.. You take government expenditures on programs deducible based on taxation direct and indirect.. You take that and spread it across the rate of standard of living.. You adjust accordingly.. I have a degree in economics.. Canadians are notorious for not looking into things fully
@SuperGuitarman69 Oh spare your 14 K explanation. Businesses charge more for a number of reasons in Canada, but you clearly have no idea that business taxes are LOWER here. Man, you don't have a clue, do you? Since you have this 'economics' degree,then you've heard of supply and demand, along with buying power and competition. We are 1/10th your size. Do the math.
I have a degree in Biochemistry, and did further study in economics. Your understanding of our economic system is clearly lacking.
@donnely138 Helloooooo???? Its called geography. Look at a map. Not to mention the fact, why the hell do they need to be looking to any other country when your system is supposed to be the best????
People who can't afford to get treatment, aren't looking for handouts, they just want to live.
Here's hoping you never get dropped by your insurance company, or have a job that doesn't pay enough for healthcare costs.
@MadHabber93 According to the AMA, the insurance company that denies/drops the most people is Medicare.
In my home country Germany, private insurance not only costs less than government insurance (also much less regulated than insurers in the U.S.), but it also covers more and provides quicker access to hospitals. I wasn't allowed to buy it though, because I did not have my own business and I did not make enough money to discountinue paying for public insurance. The gov likes their monopoly.
@groam6666 The AMA report got their information right from the insurance companies...in other words, bogus. According to the California Nurses Association, private insurance companies denied up to 40% of claims, medicare is in the 4% range. Not to mention, Germany's insurance/public system is FAR different what is currently done in the States. Not to mention, the German system still guarantee's healthcare for everyone, regardless of income. The U.S. system does not.
Liberal arrogance? He tried to prove a point using an impromptu poll and turned out there were only 7 participants! I could organize a massive conference on healthcare and ask all the Texans to stand up. Let's assume only 7. Then I could ask, 'how many of you would happily murder a Mexican?'. If the majority/all said yes, is that indicative of Texan attitudes towards the murder of Mexicans?
When I was a kid, a fifteen minute family doctor visit cost my mother $1 - later it went up to $2. I was with her. House calls were more: $5.00. Pharma could NOT advertise. Early 1950's, before it got all corrupted.
If you cant afford it then i can understand a plan like this....but making me a pay a fine or go to jail if i dont want it or pay? that doesent seem just alittle...well...crazy?
as someone who has followed this reform all summer, and worked as an actuary at a health insurance company, i would like to say this is a very strong essay you wrote. you don't usually get to see statistics on what % of cancers get treated.
Now ask the Canadians, how many of them would trade their healthcare system for ours lol!
luvitluvitbaby 1 week ago
in yo face!
yolenin1 2 months ago
Like many other people, Krugman can't understand that the people on the other side of the argument actually have good reasons for opposing his ideas and aren't just evil or lying. When he conducts polls like this, that show that the Canadian health care system actually isn't that popular, he exposes that he was so ignorant that he couldn't see beyond his own point of view and makes himself look foolish.
EGarrett01 3 months ago
@EGarrett01 It is quite clear, from real poll after poll after poll, that our system is VERY popular with 80 to 90% being more than satisfied with the care they have received, with more than 90% never wanting a for profit, insurance run system of the U.S.
7 people in an audience means nothing.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
For emergency care, Canada has a good system, for secondary injuries it is still good. For elective, it is a joke. But overall, probably better than the U.S. Free market would be better than both, however.
UponInfinity 4 months ago 2
My relatives from Canada used to love their healthcare system...UNTIL they got old and needed to get REAL surgery done. My aunt has been waiting 2 years to get knee surgery. Her doctor told her, "If you want to get this procedure done immediately, go to the states and just pay cash." Ha ha, she's still waiting.
natazer 4 months ago
@natazer My brother saw an ortho 3 weeks ago, has his knee surgery next month. In Ontario, posted wait times come in at an average wait of a few months. Where does your 'aunt' live? How long does one wait in the States when they don't have the 'cash'????
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@natazer What province? I call bullshit on your comment. I have an "uncle" who lives in the States and he said....
DrearyErie 3 months ago
People seem to be careless with the word FREE. Health care in CA is free if you aren't from CA, you go there & exploit their tax funded health care system. That a side their system is not free. Life expectancy in CA is higher than in the US but out comes are better in the US. If there were real competition in the US health care system prices would be driven down making it a good system.
sintruder 5 months ago
I like Paul but what he should have asked to recover is "how many of you would rather have the american system?" Then probably 0 hands have gone up.
Chr1551 6 months ago
So he got a bad sample, and that makes him arrogant? Every single poll done has shown that Canadians prefer our system to the American system.
PoliticsStudent 8 months ago
what part of this is arrogant?
o123p 8 months ago
Hmmm. Seems to me like the American System is broken. But is the Canadian system flawless? The Canadian system while cheap ($3000/person/year) limits choice. This limit of choice means that wait lists are long, and our available treatments are limited. Government controls price by limiting service. I think that price should be controlled through capitalist competition. But thats just me.
daobagua 8 months ago
I fetch my warm cum atop the cherished American Flag
MindLibrarian2391 11 months ago
* 15% on the first $41,544 of taxable income, + * 22% on the next $41,544 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $41,544 and $83,088), + * 26% on the next $45,712 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $83,088 and $128,800), + * 29% of taxable income over $128,800.
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
FACT. most Canadians prefer their system over ours in the US. Fox news ( the republican propaganda machine ) lies and makes it like you wait years for basic care. Simply not true.
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@IndieBudgetMovie Yeah thats why they come to the USA to get treated by our horrible healthcare system. Liberalism is a Severe Mental Disorder and you prove it.
nytmstr 1 year ago
@nytmstr Yo numbnuts.. is that why Sarah Palin went to Canada as a kid for health care ??? Canada spends Less per person on health care. they have a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality. So what if "som" come into the US for care. Not "ALL" sheesh
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@IndieBudgetMovie Because ALL cant afford to make it to the country with the best healthcare in the world.
nytmstr 1 year ago
@nytmstr FACT Canadians have a HIGHER life expectancy ( Canada 81 > US 78 ) and LOWER Infant mortality than people in the US. Canadians pay LESS for health care, and about the same in taxes. The Canadian Govt pays 70% of health costs and they pay $2500 a year per capita ( << big words, get an educated liberal to explain ) The US Govt pays $3,000 per capita and pays 45% of all health care administered in the US
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
I'm so glad were moving towards Canada's wonderful system. I'll have lots of time to make sure i need that surgery...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Study finds Paul Krugman is the most partisan economist. Krugman was the only economist to "significantly" change his stances for partisan reasons. Krugman has even gone so far as to contradict his own findings to bash Republican politicians. - Brett Barkley, Econ Journal Watch, May 2010
islandmuffin 1 year ago
The peer-reviewed research was published in May 2010 issue of the Econ Journal Watch (EJW), edited by Daniel B. Klein.
Seven Nobel laureates are members of the EJW Advisory Council
islandmuffin 1 year ago
How many of those Canadians will trade there Healthcare System for the U.S. System? ZERO.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Polls show Americans living in Canada prefer the US system.
80% of Americans with good insurance would never settle for mediocre socialized care.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin That is a crock of shit. When Americans were asked what type of care in the US they are most satisfyed with TRICARE is 1. The VA is 2. and Medicare is 3. If you say that the US system is better than Canadian SIngle-Payer you would be laughed out of the room and shown the door.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
Google: Americans in Canada prefer U.S. health care: poll, Americans living in Canada prefer the U.S. health-care system for speed, quality and diagnostic technology, says a new study
The thing Americans like about most about Canada is that you all are good for a laugh, with your funny accents and the loony ducks on your money. Come on! A duck representing one dollar! LOL!
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin Like I said in that survey they were talking about one of the 3 that I mentioned. That WAS NOT a survey comparing Americas for-profit insurance companys with Canadian Single-Payer system. No Canadian in there right mind would trade Single-Payer for American for-profit insurance companys.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@islandmuffin WHAT polls ?
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@genYprogressive That's an assertion with a lot of empirical evidence. The Prime Minister of Canada came to the US for a medical operation, so that's at least one right there.
underdg22 1 year ago
@underdg22 This has nothing to do with the healthcare providers it is about the healthcare system. The fact that wealthy Canadians come here for care is beside the point. The majority of Canadians that come here do it for Elective Care not Primary Care. People that bring this up are deverting attention away from the fact that the for-profit insurance system has been a miserable failure and nobody would trade Single-Payer for that.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Around 90% of new medical patents come from the United States. That's a fact you can look up. Just like Soviet healthcare, socialized medicine in Canada or Britain suffers from ageism and long waitinglists.
underdg22 1 year ago
@underdg22 Where do you get your info from? No Prime Minister of Canada came to the U.S> for an operation. In addition, the U.S. made up 47% of medical patents from 1996 to 2000. Just a wee bit below your 90% claim.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 When you start typing prime minister of Canada it finishes with heart surgery and that's the surgery he had in America. You're research is pathetic.
underdg22 1 year ago
@underdg22 I love when idiots like you spew shit, thinking they're smart, not realizing there is A HUGE FUCKIN difference between the PM of Canada and the Premier of Newfoundland. That is the case you are referring too. Dipshit. Try researching better sunshine. ROFL
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 What's the difference really? The underlying point was that someone well-off in Canada prefers to come to the United States for an important medical operation. That fact has been in no way refuted.
underdg22 1 year ago
@underdg22 What's the difference??? You're an idiot for spouting off my research is pathetic first of all. 2nd, the Premier had his doctor buddy from New York recommend a surgeon in Miami. The procedure requires 12 weeks recovery time. Let's see, he could recover 12 weeks in the middle of winter in Toronto or Montreal or in his Sarasota, Florida condo. When you're a multi-millionaire, you have that option. What about the milllions of Americans that don't?
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 You're argument is that noone would prefer America's system to a single payer system when the fact is that people who can afford top end care come here, therefore you are wrong.
underdg22 1 year ago
@underdg22 Is that your actual argument??? ROFL. Recent polls put satisfaction of our care at 90%, with only 10% rating it poorly. In addition, another recent poll also pegs those whose support our Universal Care system over an Insurance run system like yours at 90%, with only 8% wanting the U.S. system. So yes, its not none, but very few. And I'm one that could afford going south, but why would I. We live longer here sunshine.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 WHERE on earth are those polls ? 90% US satisfied...what a fricking LIE ! why did Obama win in a landslide w/ HC Reform as the main part of his platform. FACT most Americans do not like HC Reform, what is not stated by FIXED News is that a good number who are not happy w/ reform think it did not go FAR ENOUGH !
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@IndieBudgetMovie I didn't say 90% of the U.S., 90% of Canadians support UHC.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 Damn you outed me as a dope smokin liberal...Im gonna go back and hang w/ Willie on tha bus.. nevermind. Im preachin to the choir.
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@IndieBudgetMovie No worries. Save some of that good stuff for me.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 I had a bud here say he worked w/ Canadians and he said 30 Canadians I work w/ all state they pay 50% taxes just for health care... frickin lie huh ? Canadians pay 15 - 29% income tax is all. ( 29% for over 110,000 )
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@IndieBudgetMovie Exactly. Someone making say 70 grand a year would pay roughly 25% in federal and provincial income taxes. And that's before any tax write offs.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 4.3% on the first $36,146 of taxable income, +
6.525% on the next $36,147, +
10.5% on the next $10,708, +
12.29% on the next $17,786, +
14.7% on the amount over $100,787
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
Respond to this video... SO 70 grand they would pay 19% on first 36-41,000 then approx 22% of 29,000 up to 70,000 for a total of 14,170.00 which is roughly 21% you did not do too well in math huh ???
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@IndieBudgetMovie Indie, when I said 25%, I said roughly without double checking. However, I could have saved you a whole of calculating by just referring you to this income tax calculator, that will do it for you for every province except Quebec.
walterharderDOTca/T1.asp
For the record, someone making 70 G's in Ontario will pay $15,180. 63 in income taxes before any write offs or 21.87%. Cheers.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
Respond to this video... Read the Canadian Tax code... the lowest rate applies to ALL income groups..15% federal and 4.3% provincial on first 36-41,000 .. I re-checked my math and someone making 70,000 would pay roughly 22% taxes total for both Fed & Provincial for a total of $15,800 ...
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@IndieBudgetMovie
You're not including the VAT tax. Something we have fortunantly kept out of the United States.
TimeWarp66 11 months ago
@TimeWarp66 ..Canada......
Goods and Services Tax (GST) is a Value Added Tax introduced by the Federal Government in 1991 at a rate of 7%, later reduced to the current rate of 5%. Advertised prices for goods generally do not include taxes; instead, tax is calculated at the cash register. Basic groceries, prescription drugs, inward/outbound transportation and medical devices are exempt.
IndieBudgetMovie 11 months ago
Respond to this video... just google "What are the income tax rates in Canada" so no not 50% . Buy you one of them fancy caculators Al Gore invented.. not too hard to use
IndieBudgetMovie 1 year ago
@MadHabber93
90% of Americans support social security, that doesn't make it a good system. 90% of Americans believe this guy name Jesus died for their sins. 90% of 1930's Germans believed removing Jews was a great idea!
Popularity doesn't make a position correct. Facts do. Something socialists have never had on their side.
TimeWarp66 11 months ago
@TimeWarp66 And all those things have exactly what to do with healthcare??? Thought so.
MadHabber93 11 months ago
What you describe is a very common logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum. Thumbs up for pointing it out.
Goodatconnect4 8 months ago
@underdg22 People who can afford "top end care" have an unwarranted privilege; what they can afford shouldn't be relevant. They have no right to superior healthcare in a just and equitable society.
hatchbx 1 year ago
@hatchbx That might be the worst argument I've ever heard. Do people who are wealthier have no right to superior cars, houses, jobs, home entertainment systems, computers, food, beverages, and hookers either? Gimme a break. If you really believe that everyone should have exactly the same everything move to Fantasyland where that's possible.
underdg22 1 year ago
@hatchbx Besides the simple and obvious point I made before, the "top end" luxury goods today become the goods of the masses tomorrow as long as you have economic freedom. X-rays, penicillin, ultrasounds, and CAT scans were once considered top-end care just like cell phones and personal computers were only available to a few rich people 25 years ago. That's the beauty of capitalism.
underdg22 1 year ago
@underdg22
hear hear!
TimeWarp66 11 months ago
@MadHabber93
You don't seem to know anything about free markets and capitalism. You're just another emotional lefty who has been brainwashed by his socialist Canadian government. You're an impulsive reactionary twat. Think before you form opinions, dipshit.
TimeWarp66 8 months ago
@TimeWarp66 Your replying from a post that is 11 months old?? WTF?? I don't understand free market and capitalism?? I work in sales sunshine. You don't understand our system you ignorant fuck. Even your Heritage Foundation rates Canada as more economically free than the U.S. Not to mention the CONSERVATIVE PARTY has been in power here for 5 years and was just re-elected. Think before spewing opinions?? Take your own advice and stop speaking about country you clearly know JACK SHIT ABOUT
MadHabber93 8 months ago 7
@MadHabber93
Typical angry leftist. Incapable of big boy words, so resorts to swearing! Brilliant way to get your point across! Fail.
TimeWarp66 8 months ago
@TimeWarp66 Oh, poor baby, does the little word 'fuck' offend your sensitive IGNORANT ears. Grow the fuck up and get the FACTS straight idiot. Bwah hahahahaha
Typical ignorant neo-con.
MadHabber93 8 months ago
@TimeWarp66 You don't seem very knowledgeable on economics. You seem more knowledgeable on ideological doctrine.
IndigoVagrant 8 months ago
Comment removed
MadHabber93 1 year ago
Comment removed
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@genYprogressive
Than why is it that Canadians come here for treatment, and no Americans go to Canada?
Look how people vote with their feet as to which system is better.
TimeWarp66 8 months ago
@TimeWarp66 No Americans go to Canada?? You still like to spew lies eh? In 1993 alone, 60,000 Residents of the U.S. fraudently used the Ontario healthcare system to obtain free healthcare.
Not to mention the 750,000 Americans that went abroad to other countries in 2007 to obtain healthcare they couldn't afford at home. That number was predicted to go well into the millions in 2010.
Based on your 'vote with their feet' comment, looks like your system blows donkeys. Nice.
MadHabber93 8 months ago 3
@MadHabber93 Excellent argument against government health care. You don't want people coming to your coutnry and stealing your care.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Gov't healthcare has nothing to do with it sunshine. Those people used fake cards to get free care. Ontario has since changed to photo insurance cards to prevent fraud. Nice try though.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 And what do you do if you're not a citizen in Canada and get sick? Die? Okay, thanks.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen WTF are you talking about it. They were Americans living in the States using FAKE cards. Landed immigrants get full coverage after 3 months of residency. They can buy insurance to cover them during that time. Do you even know anything about our system??
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 So then what I said is correct. People can just migrate to Canada and abuse the system.
Look, I live in Sweden. I'm all for immigration. The thing is though, I don't want a monopoly running healthcare. I like freedom, not servitude.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Umm, not they can't. If you have a major illness, you just won't be 'let' in. And are you aware how long it takes to get into our country?
And the gov't does not 'run' our system. They provide the insurance. Doctors and hospitals are privately run here. That's the common mistake about our system. No insurance company in North America, ie. the States, provides the level of coverage our provincial gov'ts provide.
Canada's system is NOT like the NHS of England.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Yes they do, they pay for it, they regulate it. If privately run means that you pay someone to do something, then every system in the world is private.
You might like slavery, I don't.
More over, they got better health care in the US, as you actually get care, not just to stand in a line and die.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Our gov'ts don't regulate it. The might regulate prices, but those are NEGOTIATED with the hospitals and the doctors, not just dictated.
Spare with your slavery crap.
We don't stand in line and die nitwit. Show me ONE study where any significant number of Canadians die due to wait times. We wait for non-urgent procedures like hip replacement, not emergency heart surgery.
While the in the U.S., 45,000 people die EVERY year due to lack of access to care due to cost.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Negotiating with one person. Hah... not a market okay?
And taxation is slavery, so I don't want that. You might like it, you probably call it something else, but I don't. I want to be free.
Yes you do. We do that in Sweden as well. Coverage simply means they will take care of it somewhere in the future. Then you wait. And some people die.
The US doesn't have a private or free market health care system, what an absurd comparison. They're not much better than Canada.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen And you want to be free?? Move to Somalia. Its working well there. Hey, maybe you become a Pirate. They're free. Bwah hahahahaha
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@Visfen Your premise that gov't insurance is slavery is no different than saying Private insurance is. If fact, it is more. Once you are covered in our system, YOU ARE ALWAYS covered. While your Utopia U.S. system denies payment, coverage, and simply drops patients that need the coverage the most. The truly sick.
Now spare me your ignorance of our system and move on. Thanks for coming out though.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Yes it is. You're not forced to pay for private insurance.
I don't want to be covered, I want to get care. The difference is huge. Though not measured by the welfare economists at WHO, which all praise Amartya Sen.
The US system is far from free market or private. Half of it is government financed and the rest of it has mandates in abundance.
Spare me your inane ramblings of how good it is to work for the state. Not all of us are mindless retarded drones. Some of us are free men.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen You pay taxes for roads, services, police, military, etc. Then we've been slaves forever then based on your warped logic.
Your whole 'free men' is more bullshit.
And I get the best here, I'm covered and I GET care. Of course I know that, BECAUSE I FUCKIN LIVE HERE your ignorant RETARD!!
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 So you mean I pay taxes so that other people can drive on them when I don't even have a car. I pay for other peoples services I don't want or use. I pay for murder. Study some Proudhon or Rothbard, rather the later.
At least since taxation we've been slaves. Taxation is slavery. Read Robert Nozick.
No, you don't get care. You get to stand in a line. That is what coverage means. And people die in this line.
Move to Somalia? Haha, then move to North Korea. Same argument...
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Not even close to the same argument dipshit. Its called communism...look it up.
And what line??? Do you live here?? That's right YOU DON"T. So go fuck yourself and what you 'think' what we have here. And just ignore that one who cannot afford care doesn't even get in the line.
And I stand in the line that provides one of THE longest life spans on the planet.
You must be going ape shit living in Sweden, one of THE highest taxed Euro countries. Too bad, so sad.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 So telling someone to move if they don't like it, is not the same argument as telling someone to move if the don't like it?
Are you daft? You have longer lines in Canada.It's one of the reason it is cheaper, because you don't have as high of a capacity. It's a fact of life and economics. You get longer lines.
I don't want to ignore them. I want a market for care.
Yes, I don't like that. But our capital taxes are really low, 0% actually with kapitalförsäkring. So I like that.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Not as high of a capacity?? When we cover EVERYONE?? You are the daft one.
A market for care? Like this supposed utopia free market?? That will NEVER work in healthcare. Like I've told others who believe that bullshit too. Bring the price down on REALLY expensive care in a 'free market' is still REALLY FUCKING EXPENSIVE. That's why lines are shorter in the U.S., you eliminate 1/3 of the line. They just don't get care and die. Nice system. Keep it.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Omg, you are really not getting this. Think of it this way. You have two systems of car mechanics, one where people go in an fix the car directly, another where you go in and have to wait until they have room. The second deals with more clients, but the first one has to be able to deal with them quicker. Which one has to have higher capacity?
Never work? It worked fine before WWII. Health care inflation didn't even take of until medicare, medicaid and the HMO act.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen I get it sunshine. It worked before WWII?? Did you actually speak to people that lived back then? Do you know how many just went without care? Again, they didn't even get in the bloody line. Not to mention, healthcare in the 40's vs. the high tech high cost of healthcare today?? You can't compare it nor expect it to work even remotely the same.
But you seem to be stuck on this line thing. Let me repeat this. THERE IS NO LINE FOR URGENT CARE here. PERIOD!
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Uh, no. But there's data on this. Everyone got care, because before medicare half of the time doctors worked for free, they just saw it as their duty to help the poor and less fortunate. Medicare started paying for something that was otherwise free.
High tech cost? Technology makes health care cheaper, not more expensive! Sure it's better now, but we're richer as well.
Urgent care? I wasn't talking about urgent care.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Work for free?? That's your argument?? Tell you what, go back to the States and tell the doctors to just forgo their pay and not to worry about their medical school debts because its their duty to work for free.
2nd, are you on crack? CT scans, laser machines, modern medical equipment etc. routinely used in daily healthcare is EXTREMELY expensive and did not EXIST 40 years ago. Healthcare costs have ballooned across the world, most due to technology.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 That's what they did. It's a documented fact. There are other ways to finance it though. Cooperative local organizations was very popular in the US before FDR killed them with the new deal with SS and such crap.They could deal with that
Do you even understand what technology is for? You think we use these things to make it more expensive?
The primary driving factor is that there's no market for making care cheaper. What would be the point in such an innovation in the current state?
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Its not a question of using things to make things more expensive. It just becomes more expensive. What did they do before CT scans. Just X-rays. But CT catches more, and earlier. They are also more expensive than X-rays. You need higher paid techs to run them. And by discovering a disease and making it treatable, results in a higher cost of treatment vs. someone just being dead.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 It just? No it doesn't. No other market functions that way. You know why? Because in other markets you can make money making stuff cheaper - not just better. In a market where the government set the price, you have no profit, so you get no gain.
And there's no reason to just implement this across the line. We should have varying qualities of care. If you're richer you can buy better, if you're poorer you might by just 1990s worth of care. Just like cars.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen You want a system where the rich get better care. I want a system where the rich and poor get the same GREAT care like we have in our system. Can we improve wait times for non-urgent care, sure, but that can be done. Your system leaves the less fortunate and truly sick who can't afford the large bills, behind. Again, move to Somalia. You'll love it there. Love to keep up this up, but its bed time here. Get back to me with real stats and studies. I know I can back my claims.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 You don't "get" care. You buy it. Yes, I think if you pay more you should get better care.
Well you can't have such a system. Doesn't even matter that you like your government system, it is not going to survive unless you have an ever expanding younger population. Which is why we see most countries in Europe, and Canada as well, in some way opening up for private competition.
No we don't leave them behind. Stop using the government as a god of gaps argument.
Visfen 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 So what if it is expensive? How does that matter? You have insurance for that very reason. Not fore regular check ups and minor surgery. You have insurance for catastrophic cost that will wipe you out.
One third? :D And it doesn't work that way.
And the US is not a current example of a market in health care. You can't even buy insurance across state lines. You can't say what you want in your plan, that is decided by the states (now feds with obamacare). It's not a free market...
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen How does it matter if its expensive?? Even people WITH insurance in the States forgo treatment due to the high cost of decuctibles or copays. Not to mention, most insurance in the STATES sucks compared to what we get covered. Not to mention most are CAPPED. So your catastrophic coverage is horseshit.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 No, most insurance in the US doesn't suck. If you got insurance in the states you got the best care in the world as measured by quality of care and results. The problem have always been those that fall out of the system.
You're talking about health insurance that is completely designed by states regulatory agencies. How is that even a market? There's an abundance of ridiculous rules, now it's going to get even worse, as the federal government is taking over that.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen Quality of care results? Care to show me. As the U.S. does not have the best Quality of care results.
And have you been to Canada? A Canadian hosptial?? I'm not even saying ours is THE best, but its some of the best care you will receive and on par with ANY nation. I know this, because A. I LIVE HERE and B. I work in the Pharma industry and know about the medical industry.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Yes they do. If you look at things like cancer care results, surgery results, nr of MRI-machines etc. they have better results.
Why do I have to, it isn't pertinent to this discussion. Have you ever read a book about economics? That's a more important question.
You might know about the medical industry but you don't know about the free market alternative, that much is clear. But great news for you, you basically work for a government funded industry then, no wonder you like them.
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen I have looked at cancer results. Looking at 2010 cancer care 5 year survival rates, Canada is virtually on par with the States. Not to mention our mortality rates are lower per 100,000. Of course, in our system, we didn't have 2 MILLION Americans simply forgoing further cancer treatment because they couldn't afford it. Not to mention countless who had to re-mortgage a home just to pay for their care. And show me these surgery results. I'll show you different.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 The health care bankruptcy myth? Omg, that study was total crap. If you even had a cousin that was sick, then they counted it to the number one cause of bankruptcy.
Either way, there is no metric for calculating which system is better than another, that is why you need a market to evaluate these things.
Private Pharma in Canada? That's new. And which is your biggest market for new products then?
Visfen 7 months ago
@Visfen And I said I work in Pharma, which a PRIVATE industry here and NOT just gov't funded. Our company does not get gov't money, but thanks for your additional ignorance.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 I pay 80 dollars a month for my healthcare.. I have private healthcare.. I've used it some but not a ton.. But a year ago I had something major happen.. I went to the doctor, he immediately made me see a specialist, he immediately got me into surgery and took care of the problem at a cost of my 500 dollar deductible.. From begging to end it took less than 2 weeks.. Imagine my surprise when my Canadian friend told me it would have been over a year before I would have gotten that..
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Imagine that anecdotal evidence means means sweet fuck all. Imagine that MILLIONS of Americans forgo needed and necessary treatment because they couldn't afford it. WHat surgery??
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Imagine that anecdotal evidence means means sweet fuck all. Imagine that MILLIONS of Americans forgo needed and necessary treatment because they couldn't afford it. WHat surgery??
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Gall stones. Life threatening.. And no one in the United States goes without healthcare.. In all instances when someone doesn't have insurance they can work out a payment method with the hospital and or doctor.. If it is an emergency they get right in without even being checked if they are a citizen.. So this myth perpetrated about citizens dying in the streets is insulting to our institutional physicians and hospitals.. Unwarranted propaganda. By your government and our leftists
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MadHabber93 Gall stones. Life threatening.. And no one in the United States goes without healthcare.. In all instances when someone doesn't have insurance they can work out a payment method with the hospital and or doctor.. If it is an emergency they get right in without even being checked if they are a citizen.. So this myth perpetrated about citizens dying in the streets is insulting to our institutional physicians and hospitals.. Unwarranted propaganda. By your government and our leftists
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Your system costs the average Canadian upwards of 14k a year in hidden taxes.. (inflation) businesses that are taxed to pay for the system passes it on to you.. You have waiting periods for care.. In small cases not a problem,, But healthcare should be considered for life threatening problems.. In that case? Canadian care is deplorable.. It is not a sound system.. If the world economy crumbles Canadians well see that program vanish.. And the results will be catastrophic
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 It doesn't come close to that figure. YOu have sources to back that up. We have waiting periods for non-urgent care, not urgent care. PERIOD. I know this because I LIVE HERE. I always love it when an American calls our system deplorable yet 90% of us FULLY support it. Canada's debt to GDP ratio is the lowest in the G8. If the world economy crumbles, the U.S. goes well before us. Your system leaves wait times of forever for MILLIONS. Again, what surgery?
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Of course you support it.. You do not know anything different.. You have never seen freedom in healthcare.. 280 million people in our country has private healthcare.. NOT taking money from business owners or other citizens, they own it and pay for it themselves.. And you are saying we will crumble first? It will never happen.. Let me explain.. We have a constitution that prohibits the government from taking away our rights.. Which means that the Federal Reserve DOESN'T OWN Part1
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Freedom in healthcare? You mean an insurance company telling you what hospital or clinic or doctor you are allowed to see? I've been treated in that States. I waited 15 hours in a smelly Dallas ER. I've never waited that long here before EVER. Have you been to Canada? Have you used our system? Then YOU know no difference.
I'll ask for the third time what surgery did you get that you think I'd wait a year for? And how long would one wait in the States with no insurance?
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Yes I have.. I am NOT a fan.. Look, you are defending the indefensible.. There are problems with our healthcare.. But is NOT the insurance companies that are making the costs go up.. It is government. So while you praise your government controlling every aspect of your life, we choose to not have it because government sucks.. And I have one of the best hospitals on earth not 2 miles from me.. I'll stay here thank you very much.. And with no insurance? Wouldn't matter.. Part 1
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 The gov't controls every aspect of my life? Really guy, spare me your ignorance. Even your beloved Heritiage Foundation rates Canada more economically free than the U.S. You clearly don't have a clue what its like here.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 NO ONE is turned down for care. Why do you think you were waiting in Dallas? Did you happen to notice all the Mexicans around? If you say there wasn't any? Then you are full of shit.. Because they are illegal and taking advantage of our care.. Do you think they have insurance? And yet there they were in the Dallas er weren't they? Think about that insurance line again.. And fyi? I choose my doctor.. If my insurance does? I can get different insurance. See, that is freedom..
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 There were ZERO mexicans. The guy beside me had a clearly broken hand and was there since 3 pm.....the day before. And you are only not turned down for ER care, not continued care for chronic conditions. That's why 2 MILLION Americans forgo needed cancer treatment last year because they could no longer afford the treatment.
You are under a delusion that you have freedom. I NEVER have to wait to see if I'm covered for any procedure, as we ALWAYS are.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 And I'll ask you for the FOURTH FUCKING TIME, What surgery did you get that you think I would have to wait a year for??????????????????
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 And 280 Million Americans don't pay for themselves? They don't take money from business owners for their healthcare?? 60% of employers provide some form of healthcare insurance.
And I'm also still waiting for your 14K claim, as it more in the range of 2 grand, and I can provide proof of that.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Even at that, it is even admitted by your government that your healthcare system in it's current state is unsustainable.. Not my words, theirs... Which is only plausible.. Nothing is free. The only real way of saving it is to force businesses or individuals to pay more or go private.. Otherwise it will collapse the economy.. That is why Obamacare will be gone in 2012.. One thing about leftists, they still believe 4 - 8= 12.. It doesn't work.. But as I said, our government and Part1
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Whose theirs?? As I can provide two links showing our system is still VERY sustainable. One from a major economics professor from Harvard. Heard of that school? Its a myth perpetuated from the right that its not. I think you need to look at your system before casting your bullshit.
And I find it very telling that you don't tell me this surgery you received. And I bet you are partially covered by an employer for your health insurance too?!
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 yours are pushing for one world government.. Which as I have stated.. We will NEVER do as a country.. There are stupid leftists here.. You see them all the time. Olbermann, Obama, Krugman, Maher on and on.. But they are not the bulk of the country. They own our media, but they do not own common sense and rationality.. And the desire of freedom and liberty.. So when they push us towards our demise? We will fight.. By force if necessary.. We are American. Free and proud..
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 You are AMerican. Stupid and gullible.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Stupid and gullible huh? You are the ones who had the opportunity to pay for healthcare privately to get faster service and you voted it down.. IMO that is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.. And your little attack there? Doesn't carry weight.. Blatant attacks like that are sucker punches when one is out of validity in debate. You have ran your course so you resort to offending and entire nation? That shows your colors right there..
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Go back and crawl under your redneck rock with your force bullshit. I'm sure you are one the same people that say, we want our American back?? We'll take it back!!!! Who fucking took it?? Spare me.
Still waiting on the surgery. Very telling.
Quit wasting my time.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 You can't argue with someone like "MadHabber93" He trolls youtube looking for criticisms of Canada and vents his frustration that he lives there. He jumped into a conversation I was having about Obamacare and went on and on about how the U.S. sucks compared to Canada. No about of information would pursuade him. In the end I left him sputtering the f-word and calling me an idiot. He's a troll. Just remind him that Bruins beat the Canucks and his head will probably explode.
kbar8888 4 months ago
@kbar8888 LOLOLOLOL Dude you are awesome.. Yeah he just resorted to calling us Americans stupid and gullible.. Funny how the most powerful and advanced country on the planet is full of stupid and gullible people huh?
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 And I actually like the States and Americans. But I can't stand ignorant ass one's that think their shit doesn't stink and spew crap they clearly know nothing about. You want your system that costs FAR more than ours, with no better results, leaves Millions behind, causes countless bankruptcies...that's fine keep it. But don't think you can drag our system down and just make shit up just to try to prop your failing system up. Educated people like me will call you on it.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Lol.. You are misinformation.. No one goes bankrupt from healthcare bills.. They can pay 25 bucks for the rest of their lives for being in a hospital in a coma for a year.. And our shit doesn't stink? YOU will not even begin to look at the truth of your system. You defend it blindly. I will tell you our shortcomings (government).. And our system isn't failing.. Yours is.. If Obamacare goes through? Then yeah we can worry. And educated? I spent 7 years of my life studying economics
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MadHabber93 Lol.. You are misinformation.. No one goes bankrupt from healthcare bills.. They can pay 25 bucks for the rest of their lives for being in a hospital in a coma for a year.. And our shit doesn't stink? YOU will not even begin to look at the truth of your system. You defend it blindly. I will tell you our shortcomings (government).. And our system isn't failing.. Yours is.. If Obamacare goes through? Then yeah we can worry. And educated? I spent 7 years of my life studying economics
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@kbar8888 That's because you are an idiot. And I don't like either hockey team dipshit.
And like SuperGut, you two fuck nuts are the ones spewing anecdotes, ignorance, and just plain bullshit. Good for you two. You can now be butt buddies. That's sooooo cute.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 You don't like hockey. Well how am I supposed to believe you are actually Canadian? Oh wait, bad grammer, chip on your shoulder, love for socialism, and distain for the U.S.A, maybe you are Canadian after all. BTW, you're welcome for the 50 years that we kept the U.S.S.R from turning you into another satellite state.
kbar8888 4 months ago
@kbar8888 I didn't say I didn't like hockey. I said I don't either team. I love hockey.
Love football. Love soccer. Love golf. Hate idiots. Hate socailism. I'm a fiscal conservative that wants a system that costs less, produces great health outcomes, yet covers EVERYONE. That is NOT your system.
And your welcome for protecting you from the U.S.S.R. from going through us to get to you. Your welcome for allowing all those planes to land here on 9/11. Pick up a book dipshit.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 You hate socialism but love socialized medicine? I think you're just another liberal, extolling the wonders of the capitalist society while you quietly work to undermine it. As for protecting the U.S.A from the U.S.S.R., thoses were not Canadian aircraft flying Operation Chrome Dome. And as for 9/11, I'm sure you think only the U.S. was attacked that day, but as Great Britian, Spain, and etc found out Islamofacists are at war with the West. So, you're welcome for Afganistan.
kbar8888 4 months ago
@kbar8888 There's a MASSIVE difference between socialized medicine and socialized insurance, which is what we have.
And why do you continue to be an ignorant ass. Hundreds of planes that were diverted away from the States were gladly accepted by us. With countless Americans being put up in their homes.
For Afghanistan, your welcome. We suffered major casualties, so thanks for being an ignorant ass again. Dick!!
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@kbar8888 There's a MASSIVE difference between socialized medicine and socialized insurance, which is what we have.
And why do you continue to be an ignorant ass. Hundreds of planes that were diverted away from the States were gladly accepted by us. With countless Americans being put up in their homes.
For Afghanistan, your welcome. We suffered major casualties, so thanks for being an ignorant ass again. Dick!!
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Canada did send almost 3,000 troops and suffer over 150 casualties, I can't believe I missed that compared to the 90,000 American troops suffering over 13,000 wounded and killed. But hey, you sent more troops than Poland, so I guess you are doing all you can to fight the War on Terrorism. But, there is no difference between socialized medicine and insurance. If you control the dollars you control the service. That is Capitalism 101, he who has the gold makes the rules.
kbar8888 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Canada did send almost 3,000 troops and suffer over 150 casualties, I can't believe I missed that compared to the 90,000 American troops suffering over 13,000 wounded and killed. But hey, you sent more troops than Poland, so I guess you are doing all you can to fight the War on Terrorism. But, there is no difference between socialized medicine and insurance. If you control the dollars you control the service. That is Capitalism 101, he who has the gold makes the rules.
kbar8888 4 months ago
@kbar8888 We sent the third most troops I believe, and suffered the most casualties per captia of troops you ungrateful fuck. Then you wonder why some people hate Americans. Luckily I separate ignorant asses like you away from the good Americans.
And there's a big difference. In single payer insurance, docs, hospitals and clinics are all privately run while in socialized medicine, they are all employees of the gov't. MASSIVE difference. But I didn't anticipate you'd understand that.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 It matters little if you are a "private" employee when the money you earn is not controlled by market forces but rather by a gov't commisar. The fact that you see a difference between a doctor who is paid only by the gov't and a doctor employed by that gov't just goes to show you don't know a thing about capitalism. Let's make it simple for you. Can a doctor in ask a patient to pay him $100 for an office visit? or $300? No. He must accept whever the gov't dictates as payment.
kbar8888 4 months ago
@kbar8888 The gov't doesn't dictate what the payment is. Its negotiated. Ever heard of that word? That is why, even though our healthcare costs are going up just like everyelse on the planet, it pales into comparison in your private utopia where doctors and hospitals RIP people off by OVER charging patients. And for the boutique clinics that have opened, yes, they can charge what they want. Hence why those clinics are also ripping people off here.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kbar8888 The gov't doesn't dictate what the payment is. Its negotiated. Ever heard of that word? That is why, even though our healthcare costs are going up just like everyelse on the planet, it pales into comparison in your private utopia where doctors and hospitals RIP people off by OVER charging patients. And for the boutique clinics that have opened, yes, they can charge what they want. Hence why those clinics are also ripping people off here.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@kbar8888 I still find it comical that you have such an insecurity of your own broken system, that you continue to try to nitpick ours. Really dude. Give it a rest and pray to God you don't lose your insurance. Pray hard.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 You really don't understand. I'm not defending any 3rd party payer system. There should be only two participants in healthcare: the professional providing the service and the patient who decides if it is worth his money. You say the U.S. system is broken, but it was broken by gov't bureaucrats. State bureaucrats control what insurance an individual can buy and give those co's power. If you were free to purchase insurance from any carrier, competition would lower costs.
kbar8888 4 months ago
@kbar8888 Whatever. Keep living the dream.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@kbar8888 And who ever holds the gold, makes the rules. SO you admit, your system is insurance run and controlled. An insurance industry whose sole purpose is to profit off the backs of DEAD Americans. Nice system. Keep it.
YOu have 3 people in your doc office. The doc, the patient and the insurance agent. Nice.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Oh wait wait wait... Protecting us from the USSR? I just read that.. Come on bro.. Canada would not last 10 minutes past the former Soviet Union.. They would have ripped you to shreds.. They don't mess around.. best leave defense up to us.. And in regards to Canada? I love Canada.. I spend a lot of time up there due to the fact I am a musician.. I am a true conservative.. there is a difference between the 2.. And statism is statism.. Healthcare or not..
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Dude, I was playing with Ker. And for the record, you've never had to come to our defence, although I know you would. And I Love the States. I vacation there quite often, and grew up near the border. And I agree, there is a difference between you and me and our brand of conservatism. I'm a fiscal conservative, social Liberal. But your idea of our system is off. It just is. Fair enough?
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Dude, I was playing with Ker. I'm not stupid, I know they would. Its a play on words. But let's be clear, you've never come to our defence. And I love the States. Vacation there quite often. And I'm a fiscal conservative, social Liberal. 80% of Canadian conservatives still support our medicare system. Your ideas are just off about our system, just like Kers. Fair enough?
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Alrighty
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 own us.. If it comes down to it? Just like President Jackson did, we will oust the Federal Reserve axe our debt and start printing our own money again.. Which is going to happen anyway.. The leftists in this country want one world government.. They hate our constitution.. But when the shit hits the fan? They will be history and so will the Federal Reserve.. You do not have that.. Your GDP? It is a farce.. It is fiat currency.. It isn't real.. You are owned and have no hope.
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Oh and on that figure? You have to consider the rate at which you and business is taxed in Canada.. You take those figures and deduct all other programs.. Look at the rate of inflation based on fiat reserves, then fix in everyday expenditures.. I may be off a grand one way or the other.. But they are close.. Those figures are from last year.. Canadians are not economists.. They do not look at the whole picture.. They have blinders on.. I have noticed that..
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 And the reason our healthcare is so expensive is because government got into the mix.. If they wouldn't have and left it to the market? It would be cheaper.. Fro instance, in no elective surgeries? Such as cosmetic and eye surgery? (lasik) The costs have went DOWN due to competition.. Lasik used to be 10k an eye, now it is 500 an eye due to competition.. If they would do that all the way around? We would ALL just pay out of pocket.. Cheaper in the long run.
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 The 14k is in what is known as hidden taxation.. It is taken from the rate in which businesses are taxed based on the purposes of taxation.. That taxation is passed on to the customer in higher prices.. You take government expenditures on programs deducible based on taxation direct and indirect.. You take that and spread it across the rate of standard of living.. You adjust accordingly.. I have a degree in economics.. Canadians are notorious for not looking into things fully
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 The 14k is in what is known as hidden taxation.. It is taken from the rate in which businesses are taxed based on the purposes of taxation.. That taxation is passed on to the customer in higher prices.. You take government expenditures on programs deducible based on taxation direct and indirect.. You take that and spread it across the rate of standard of living.. You adjust accordingly.. I have a degree in economics.. Canadians are notorious for not looking into things fully
SuperGuitarman69 4 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Oh spare your 14 K explanation. Businesses charge more for a number of reasons in Canada, but you clearly have no idea that business taxes are LOWER here. Man, you don't have a clue, do you? Since you have this 'economics' degree,then you've heard of supply and demand, along with buying power and competition. We are 1/10th your size. Do the math.
I have a degree in Biochemistry, and did further study in economics. Your understanding of our economic system is clearly lacking.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93
"...60,000 Residents of the U.S. fraudently used the Ontario healthcare system to obtain free healthcare."
"...fraudently used the Ontario healthcare system..."
"...fraudently..."
So law breakers who want handouts and are willing to commit fraud choose your system?
donnely138 3 months ago
@donnely138 Helloooooo???? Its called geography. Look at a map. Not to mention the fact, why the hell do they need to be looking to any other country when your system is supposed to be the best????
People who can't afford to get treatment, aren't looking for handouts, they just want to live.
Here's hoping you never get dropped by your insurance company, or have a job that doesn't pay enough for healthcare costs.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 According to the AMA, the insurance company that denies/drops the most people is Medicare.
In my home country Germany, private insurance not only costs less than government insurance (also much less regulated than insurers in the U.S.), but it also covers more and provides quicker access to hospitals. I wasn't allowed to buy it though, because I did not have my own business and I did not make enough money to discountinue paying for public insurance. The gov likes their monopoly.
groam6666 3 months ago
@groam6666 The AMA report got their information right from the insurance companies...in other words, bogus. According to the California Nurses Association, private insurance companies denied up to 40% of claims, medicare is in the 4% range. Not to mention, Germany's insurance/public system is FAR different what is currently done in the States. Not to mention, the German system still guarantee's healthcare for everyone, regardless of income. The U.S. system does not.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
Liberal arrogance? He tried to prove a point using an impromptu poll and turned out there were only 7 participants! I could organize a massive conference on healthcare and ask all the Texans to stand up. Let's assume only 7. Then I could ask, 'how many of you would happily murder a Mexican?'. If the majority/all said yes, is that indicative of Texan attitudes towards the murder of Mexicans?
OWNED.
h0i0p0h0o0p0 1 year ago
I'd like to know the economic status of those in the audience.
thefredsays 1 year ago
Krugman spent his life making bad moves not to mention being a keynesian.
rayyf69 1 year ago
When I was a kid, a fifteen minute family doctor visit cost my mother $1 - later it went up to $2. I was with her. House calls were more: $5.00. Pharma could NOT advertise. Early 1950's, before it got all corrupted.
bodryn 2 years ago
If you cant afford it then i can understand a plan like this....but making me a pay a fine or go to jail if i dont want it or pay? that doesent seem just alittle...well...crazy?
donnie249 2 years ago
as someone who has followed this reform all summer, and worked as an actuary at a health insurance company, i would like to say this is a very strong essay you wrote. you don't usually get to see statistics on what % of cancers get treated.
archaenadek 2 years ago
Reminds me of the verizon commercial.
Entropy137 2 years ago
The panel was handpicked by health insurance companies, duh.
Neitzluber 2 years ago