My question my brother is, why would Abraham, one of Allah's most beloved PROPHET, make such huge mistakes not once but THREE times. First he mistakes a star for ALLAH, surely he must have seen stars every night of his life, then they disappear everyday in the daylight. So Abraham must know like everyone else that stars disappears and re-appears, yet he calls it his LORD FOR 12 HOURS, UNTIL IT DISAPPEARS....
Then he does the very same thing with the moon, mistakes it for ALLAH and calls the moon his LORD. Then he does the very same thing with the sun, mistakes it for ALLAH and calls the sun his LORD. How Abraham saw the star SET and then see the moon RISE is strange, since they both appear AT THE SAME TIMES (when the night grows dark.)...
So to try to make sense of this, I would have to conclude these events occurred on different nights. One night when the stars where visible but the moon was not. But since the star was mention first, this makes it more difficult, because if the night sky is clear enough to see the stars, you are surely able to see the moon even more. I'm sorry no disrespect intended, but this just does not make much sense...
Nights last for 12 hours(more or less) and so does days. So that would mean that for at least 36 HOURS, Abraham one of Allah's most trusted and beloved Prophet, is worshipping or at the very least calling THREE OBJECTS his LORD. Objects which he ,as a prophet, should have know was NOT Allah, but was created BY Allah. After all the star, moon, or sun didn't send him as a Prophet Allah did. Or could it be that Abraham didn't know who sent him???
Please don't take this as an insult but this Surah makes no sense, and it's easy to see why someone could get the impression that Abraham is worshipping, the star, the moon, and the sun, at least for a period of time. FOR AT LEAST 36 HOURS he is calling them HIS LORD. This is just my humble observation, I'm no scholar, just a student willing to listen and learn.
I read the entire Surah, and it deals with idol worship and assigning partners with Allah, this is understood. But the story of Abraham starts at Surah 6:74 "(Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods? Lo! I see thee and thy folk in error manifest...
Right after this in Surah 6:75 Allah shows Abraham the heavens and earth and right after this we find in Surah 6:76-78 Abraham is doing exactly what he had JUST finish admonishing his father and people for doing, idolizing the star, the moon, and the sun. These like I said are familiar objects, which as you said have been worshipped and called lord by many pagans in his time and before him. So how could he a prophet of Allah, mistake them for Allah, after JUST warning his father NOT to do it...
So I understand that in the end of Surah 6:78 Abraham finally saw that the sun was NOT his lord Allah, WHEN IT SET. One of the problems with that is what I said before, as a prophet of Allah he should have known these things are NOT ALLAH, especially since he JUST told his father and people not to idolize THINGS for gods...
The other problem is, why and when he realized they were not his lord Allah. He only realized they were not his lord, WHEN and BECAUSE THEY SET. For instance in Alaska the setting of the days are much, much longer in certain months and the nights are much longer in other months, so how long would Allah's prophet Abraham be calling these objects lord in Alaska, what if the sun's light never stop, as lights we have today stay on. We would not call these lights lord because they stay on...
So this is not a good reason to call an object lord and mistake it for Allah. In fact in Surah 6:76 the reason Abraham gives for not continuing to believe the star "...is my lord" is because it SET. The fact is, the stars ARE ALWAYS THERE just not as visible in the day, they don't REALLY disappear. Again with all due respect, I did read all of it, and it still makes no sense, and leaves one to wonder why is Allah's prophet mistaking these THINGS for Allah and calling them LORD...
Like I said I read it ALL, multiple times, reading it once more does not answer the question WHY WOULD ALLAH'S PROPHET CALL THE STAR HIS LORD, THEN THE MOON HIS LORD, AND THEN THE SUN HIS LORD, WHEN ONLY ALLAH IS LORD!!! You ask me to read and use my mind, are you suggesting that I'm reading mindlessly. My mind tells me that BOTH the stars and the moon appears TOGETHER, when the "night grows dark," yet Abraham sees only the SMALLER of the two first, and mistakes it for Allah.
My mind tells me that it does not matter with whom you dispute, you DO NOT call ANY OBJECT YOUR LORD, 3 DIFFERENT TIMES, especially if you are a PROPHET. My friend, if you and I dispute over a thing or anything for that matter, would you call that THING YOUR LORD ALLAH. I don't know you, but I know you would NOT, and you are NOT even a prophet of Allah.
So this story still make very little sense. So please tell me what I'm missing, that would make this make more sense. That he would FIRST tell his father and his people not to take idols for gods, then right after take the star, the moon, and the sun for god. He stopped calling the star his lord because he could no longer see it, but the stats are always there and so is the moon and sun. So they are not his lord, simply because they SET. Are they his lord if they DON'T SET???
By the way, he did not dispute with anyone about the star, moon, or sun. The first time they were mentioned is when he say them and called them his lord.
I don't mean to sound so critical, but this story read by any thinking, open minded person, will lead to the same questions I asked. If you can add to my understanding, it would be well appreciated, if not then peace be with you, and my God bless and guide us all.
Abraham(as) was trying to preach smartly to those pagans the true God, he was trying to show them in a clever way, what they are worship is wrong, and it was easy for him since the Pagans ignorantly also change their gods following abraham smart thinking of a greater God, he was trying tit for tat to make them realize that those gods are only God's creation and very weak, he didn't want to tell them from the begining what you worshiping is wrong to not make them walk away from his preaching
Aninvitationtothetru, there are to many problems with your explanation, for one it clearly states that allah showed Abraham the heaven and earth so that HE(ABRAHAM) "might be of those possessing certainty" NOT THE PAGANS. This clearly show it was Abraham's uncertainty that was being addressed, AT THAT POINT and not the pagans.
Then when the night grew dark IT WAS ABRAHAM ALONE that "beheld a star" no one else, IT WAS ABRAHAM ALONE THAT CALLED THESE OBJECTS HIS LORD. No where does it say that the Pagans where shown the heaven and the earth, nor does it say that they beheld the stars, moon, or the sun, nor did they call these objects their lord.
Even Abraham himself says in Surah 6:77, AFTER he mistakes and called the moon his lord, he realizes his mistake then says "Unless my lord guide me, I SURELY SHALL BECOME ONE OF THE FOLK WHO ARE ASTRAY." So your explanations IS NOT supported by the text. Did Abraham have to commit blasphemy himself to show the pagans these setting objects where not Allah, he simply had to wait until they set to show they were not Allah, if setting was enough to prove they were not allah. Just make not sense.
Another major problem you have is saying "he didn't want to tell them FROM THE BEGINING what you worshiping is wrong to not make them walk away from his preaching." Maybe you should read it again because ABRAHAM STARTED OUT FROM THE BEGINNING BY TELLING THEM what they where worshipping was wrong. Surah 6:74 "(Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods? Lo! I SEE THEE AND THY FOLL IN ERROR MANIFEST."
Yet another problem you have AnInvitationToTheTru is, when you read the entire section as I did, I do not see anywhere where "the Pagans ignorantly also change their gods following abraham smart thinking of a greater God." as you claim. If anything it seems that Muslim STILL revere the moon and stars, as is evident in the use of the symbol of the crescent moon and star on Muslim flags, but that's another story, isn't it.
Sir you have to read the verse exegesis, Abraham (as) was not confused, the verses here quotes what abraham SAID to the pigheaded pagans, not what he THOUGHT...For instance Im gonna say IM a christian, then I'll say to you IM going to worship the holy ghost today, tomorrow I'll say jesus after tomorrow the father, just to confuse you, then I'll say oh!! polytheist christian, worship the right God, God of jesus moses abarahm..(as), holy ghost,Im not following anymore ur lies,to convince you guys.
"Unless my lord guide me, I SURELY SHALL BECOME ONE OF THE FOLK WHO ARE ASTRAY."
This prayer every muslim say it in his prayer, it doesn't mean someone is confused, we muslims, we are commanded to ask from God guidance every day, it's a kind of normal worship to God, nobody on earth is guided only when GOd guides him, in Islam guidance comes only from God..
"IT WAS ABRAHAM ALONE THAT CALLED THESE OBJECTS HIS LORD" he said "this is my lord" when it set he said Oh!! PEOPLE....Tell me how people would know what he was talking about from the begining? Anyway as you said he was alraedy guided when he asked his father to worship GOd alone, so you answered yourself by yourself, if he was confused he won't asked his dad before
So then we BOTH got mixed up, and it is this Koran's story doing the mixing up. Why, because U asked me to "Tell U how people would know what he was talking about FROM THE BEGINNING?" how could U ask that when U R saying that it was a private conversation with his father IN THE BEGINNING. U answered your own question, but I'll answer it AGAIN. THE ONLY WAY THEY WOULD KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS BECAUSE THE CONVERSATION WAS NOT PRIVATE, HIS FATHER'S FOLKS HAD TO BE PRESENT FROM THE BEGINNING.
That is my very point the story is so convoluted, for instance in S.6:74 you want us to believe that the tribe is not around, its just him and his father, when the tribe(FOLK) IS MENTIONED. Then in S.6:75 when the tribe(FOLK) IS NOT MENTIONED, only Abraham is mentioned, you want us to believe they are present.
You can not have it BOTH ways, either you are wrong when you said that "he didn't want to tell them from the beginning what you worshiping is wrong to not make them walk away from his preaching" or they knew FROM THE BEGINNIG he was saying they(the folks) are "...in error manifest." S.6:74.
This convoluted story DOES NOT tell you when the "folks" were present, all that is clear is they are mentioned IN THE BEGINNING whilst he was talking with his father and in the end AFTER Allah FINISHED showing him the HEAVEN AND THE EARTH, and THE STARS, MOON, AND SUN. It certainly DOES NOT make any mention of "Pagans ignorantly also change their gods following Abraham smart thinking" as you claimed. If I missed it please give me the verse, thanks.
If we do as you suggested and "read the verse exegesis" the understanding that we get from verse S.6:75 is clear as to why the heaven and the earth, and the star, moon, and sun was shown to Abraham. It clearly states Abraham was shown these thing so "...he might be of those possessing CERTAINTY." So it is not just Abraham that is confused in this story, it is THIS STORY of Abraham that is confused.
IN THIS STORY, if Abraham IS NOT confused and is ALREADY CERTAIN or GUIDED as you say. Then why would Allah say he is showing him these things so that "he(Abraham) might be of those possessing CERTAINTY:" And Allah was indeed addressing ABRAHAM as the Surah clearly shows. Then this went on over period of days as the stars, moon, and sun, rose and set, DAYS.
I have to ask this, when a Muslim prays and ask for guidance is he REALLY asking for guidance because he NEEDS it, or is he asking because he is "commanded to ask from God guidance?" You see my point, Abraham is not just asking for guidance for NO REASON, or out of the blue. He is making this statement of going "astray" if NOT GUIDED BY GOD, right AFTER he mistook the moon for his lord. This goes right in line with someone who does NOT yet "possess CERTAINTY."
This would be the exegesis of these verses, if ANY. There is no sequence of time or days or who and when the main subjects are being addressed and by whom. like I said before It is easy to why anyone can say that THIS STORY has Abraham mistakenly worshipping the stars,moon, and sun FOR DAYS.
My question my brother is, why would Abraham, one of Allah's most beloved PROPHET, make such huge mistakes not once but THREE times. First he mistakes a star for ALLAH, surely he must have seen stars every night of his life, then they disappear everyday in the daylight. So Abraham must know like everyone else that stars disappears and re-appears, yet he calls it his LORD FOR 12 HOURS, UNTIL IT DISAPPEARS....
christyes 3 years ago
Then he does the very same thing with the moon, mistakes it for ALLAH and calls the moon his LORD. Then he does the very same thing with the sun, mistakes it for ALLAH and calls the sun his LORD. How Abraham saw the star SET and then see the moon RISE is strange, since they both appear AT THE SAME TIMES (when the night grows dark.)...
christyes 3 years ago
So to try to make sense of this, I would have to conclude these events occurred on different nights. One night when the stars where visible but the moon was not. But since the star was mention first, this makes it more difficult, because if the night sky is clear enough to see the stars, you are surely able to see the moon even more. I'm sorry no disrespect intended, but this just does not make much sense...
christyes 3 years ago
Nights last for 12 hours(more or less) and so does days. So that would mean that for at least 36 HOURS, Abraham one of Allah's most trusted and beloved Prophet, is worshipping or at the very least calling THREE OBJECTS his LORD. Objects which he ,as a prophet, should have know was NOT Allah, but was created BY Allah. After all the star, moon, or sun didn't send him as a Prophet Allah did. Or could it be that Abraham didn't know who sent him???
christyes 3 years ago
Please don't take this as an insult but this Surah makes no sense, and it's easy to see why someone could get the impression that Abraham is worshipping, the star, the moon, and the sun, at least for a period of time. FOR AT LEAST 36 HOURS he is calling them HIS LORD. This is just my humble observation, I'm no scholar, just a student willing to listen and learn.
christyes 3 years ago
I suggest you read the Surah again and see what Ibrahim (as) was doing and why he called this 3 objects his "lord"
RefutingCP 3 years ago
I read the entire Surah, and it deals with idol worship and assigning partners with Allah, this is understood. But the story of Abraham starts at Surah 6:74 "(Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods? Lo! I see thee and thy folk in error manifest...
christyes 3 years ago
Right after this in Surah 6:75 Allah shows Abraham the heavens and earth and right after this we find in Surah 6:76-78 Abraham is doing exactly what he had JUST finish admonishing his father and people for doing, idolizing the star, the moon, and the sun. These like I said are familiar objects, which as you said have been worshipped and called lord by many pagans in his time and before him. So how could he a prophet of Allah, mistake them for Allah, after JUST warning his father NOT to do it...
christyes 3 years ago
So I understand that in the end of Surah 6:78 Abraham finally saw that the sun was NOT his lord Allah, WHEN IT SET. One of the problems with that is what I said before, as a prophet of Allah he should have known these things are NOT ALLAH, especially since he JUST told his father and people not to idolize THINGS for gods...
christyes 3 years ago
The other problem is, why and when he realized they were not his lord Allah. He only realized they were not his lord, WHEN and BECAUSE THEY SET. For instance in Alaska the setting of the days are much, much longer in certain months and the nights are much longer in other months, so how long would Allah's prophet Abraham be calling these objects lord in Alaska, what if the sun's light never stop, as lights we have today stay on. We would not call these lights lord because they stay on...
christyes 3 years ago
Comment removed
christyes 3 years ago
So this is not a good reason to call an object lord and mistake it for Allah. In fact in Surah 6:76 the reason Abraham gives for not continuing to believe the star "...is my lord" is because it SET. The fact is, the stars ARE ALWAYS THERE just not as visible in the day, they don't REALLY disappear. Again with all due respect, I did read all of it, and it still makes no sense, and leaves one to wonder why is Allah's prophet mistaking these THINGS for Allah and calling them LORD...
christyes 3 years ago
Read again ...
RefutingCP 3 years ago
Read again why he said this
With who did Ibrahim (as) dispute about the moon star en sun being a god
Dont just read one verse read everything and use your mind
RefutingCP 3 years ago
Like I said I read it ALL, multiple times, reading it once more does not answer the question WHY WOULD ALLAH'S PROPHET CALL THE STAR HIS LORD, THEN THE MOON HIS LORD, AND THEN THE SUN HIS LORD, WHEN ONLY ALLAH IS LORD!!! You ask me to read and use my mind, are you suggesting that I'm reading mindlessly. My mind tells me that BOTH the stars and the moon appears TOGETHER, when the "night grows dark," yet Abraham sees only the SMALLER of the two first, and mistakes it for Allah.
christyes 3 years ago
My mind tells me that it does not matter with whom you dispute, you DO NOT call ANY OBJECT YOUR LORD, 3 DIFFERENT TIMES, especially if you are a PROPHET. My friend, if you and I dispute over a thing or anything for that matter, would you call that THING YOUR LORD ALLAH. I don't know you, but I know you would NOT, and you are NOT even a prophet of Allah.
christyes 3 years ago
So this story still make very little sense. So please tell me what I'm missing, that would make this make more sense. That he would FIRST tell his father and his people not to take idols for gods, then right after take the star, the moon, and the sun for god. He stopped calling the star his lord because he could no longer see it, but the stats are always there and so is the moon and sun. So they are not his lord, simply because they SET. Are they his lord if they DON'T SET???
christyes 3 years ago
By the way, he did not dispute with anyone about the star, moon, or sun. The first time they were mentioned is when he say them and called them his lord.
I don't mean to sound so critical, but this story read by any thinking, open minded person, will lead to the same questions I asked. If you can add to my understanding, it would be well appreciated, if not then peace be with you, and my God bless and guide us all.
christyes 3 years ago
Abraham(as) was trying to preach smartly to those pagans the true God, he was trying to show them in a clever way, what they are worship is wrong, and it was easy for him since the Pagans ignorantly also change their gods following abraham smart thinking of a greater God, he was trying tit for tat to make them realize that those gods are only God's creation and very weak, he didn't want to tell them from the begining what you worshiping is wrong to not make them walk away from his preaching
AnInvitationToTheTru 2 years ago
Aninvitationtothetru, there are to many problems with your explanation, for one it clearly states that allah showed Abraham the heaven and earth so that HE(ABRAHAM) "might be of those possessing certainty" NOT THE PAGANS. This clearly show it was Abraham's uncertainty that was being addressed, AT THAT POINT and not the pagans.
christyes 2 years ago
Then when the night grew dark IT WAS ABRAHAM ALONE that "beheld a star" no one else, IT WAS ABRAHAM ALONE THAT CALLED THESE OBJECTS HIS LORD. No where does it say that the Pagans where shown the heaven and the earth, nor does it say that they beheld the stars, moon, or the sun, nor did they call these objects their lord.
christyes 2 years ago
Even Abraham himself says in Surah 6:77, AFTER he mistakes and called the moon his lord, he realizes his mistake then says "Unless my lord guide me, I SURELY SHALL BECOME ONE OF THE FOLK WHO ARE ASTRAY." So your explanations IS NOT supported by the text. Did Abraham have to commit blasphemy himself to show the pagans these setting objects where not Allah, he simply had to wait until they set to show they were not Allah, if setting was enough to prove they were not allah. Just make not sense.
christyes 2 years ago
Another major problem you have is saying "he didn't want to tell them FROM THE BEGINING what you worshiping is wrong to not make them walk away from his preaching." Maybe you should read it again because ABRAHAM STARTED OUT FROM THE BEGINNING BY TELLING THEM what they where worshipping was wrong. Surah 6:74 "(Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods? Lo! I SEE THEE AND THY FOLL IN ERROR MANIFEST."
christyes 2 years ago
Yet another problem you have AnInvitationToTheTru is, when you read the entire section as I did, I do not see anywhere where "the Pagans ignorantly also change their gods following abraham smart thinking of a greater God." as you claim. If anything it seems that Muslim STILL revere the moon and stars, as is evident in the use of the symbol of the crescent moon and star on Muslim flags, but that's another story, isn't it.
christyes 2 years ago
Sir you have to read the verse exegesis, Abraham (as) was not confused, the verses here quotes what abraham SAID to the pigheaded pagans, not what he THOUGHT...For instance Im gonna say IM a christian, then I'll say to you IM going to worship the holy ghost today, tomorrow I'll say jesus after tomorrow the father, just to confuse you, then I'll say oh!! polytheist christian, worship the right God, God of jesus moses abarahm..(as), holy ghost,Im not following anymore ur lies,to convince you guys.
AnInvitationToTheTru 2 years ago
actualy Surah 6:74 talks about the conversation between Abraham and his father, not with the tribe of the other verse, don't mix up things
AnInvitationToTheTru 2 years ago
"Unless my lord guide me, I SURELY SHALL BECOME ONE OF THE FOLK WHO ARE ASTRAY."
This prayer every muslim say it in his prayer, it doesn't mean someone is confused, we muslims, we are commanded to ask from God guidance every day, it's a kind of normal worship to God, nobody on earth is guided only when GOd guides him, in Islam guidance comes only from God..
AnInvitationToTheTru 2 years ago
"IT WAS ABRAHAM ALONE THAT CALLED THESE OBJECTS HIS LORD" he said "this is my lord" when it set he said Oh!! PEOPLE....Tell me how people would know what he was talking about from the begining? Anyway as you said he was alraedy guided when he asked his father to worship GOd alone, so you answered yourself by yourself, if he was confused he won't asked his dad before
AnInvitationToTheTru 2 years ago
Comment removed
christyes 2 years ago
So then we BOTH got mixed up, and it is this Koran's story doing the mixing up. Why, because U asked me to "Tell U how people would know what he was talking about FROM THE BEGINNING?" how could U ask that when U R saying that it was a private conversation with his father IN THE BEGINNING. U answered your own question, but I'll answer it AGAIN. THE ONLY WAY THEY WOULD KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS BECAUSE THE CONVERSATION WAS NOT PRIVATE, HIS FATHER'S FOLKS HAD TO BE PRESENT FROM THE BEGINNING.
christyes 2 years ago
That is my very point the story is so convoluted, for instance in S.6:74 you want us to believe that the tribe is not around, its just him and his father, when the tribe(FOLK) IS MENTIONED. Then in S.6:75 when the tribe(FOLK) IS NOT MENTIONED, only Abraham is mentioned, you want us to believe they are present.
christyes 2 years ago
You can not have it BOTH ways, either you are wrong when you said that "he didn't want to tell them from the beginning what you worshiping is wrong to not make them walk away from his preaching" or they knew FROM THE BEGINNIG he was saying they(the folks) are "...in error manifest." S.6:74.
christyes 2 years ago
This convoluted story DOES NOT tell you when the "folks" were present, all that is clear is they are mentioned IN THE BEGINNING whilst he was talking with his father and in the end AFTER Allah FINISHED showing him the HEAVEN AND THE EARTH, and THE STARS, MOON, AND SUN. It certainly DOES NOT make any mention of "Pagans ignorantly also change their gods following Abraham smart thinking" as you claimed. If I missed it please give me the verse, thanks.
christyes 2 years ago
If we do as you suggested and "read the verse exegesis" the understanding that we get from verse S.6:75 is clear as to why the heaven and the earth, and the star, moon, and sun was shown to Abraham. It clearly states Abraham was shown these thing so "...he might be of those possessing CERTAINTY." So it is not just Abraham that is confused in this story, it is THIS STORY of Abraham that is confused.
christyes 2 years ago
IN THIS STORY, if Abraham IS NOT confused and is ALREADY CERTAIN or GUIDED as you say. Then why would Allah say he is showing him these things so that "he(Abraham) might be of those possessing CERTAINTY:" And Allah was indeed addressing ABRAHAM as the Surah clearly shows. Then this went on over period of days as the stars, moon, and sun, rose and set, DAYS.
christyes 2 years ago
I have to ask this, when a Muslim prays and ask for guidance is he REALLY asking for guidance because he NEEDS it, or is he asking because he is "commanded to ask from God guidance?" You see my point, Abraham is not just asking for guidance for NO REASON, or out of the blue. He is making this statement of going "astray" if NOT GUIDED BY GOD, right AFTER he mistook the moon for his lord. This goes right in line with someone who does NOT yet "possess CERTAINTY."
christyes 2 years ago
Comment removed
christyes 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This would be the exegesis of these verses, if ANY. There is no sequence of time or days or who and when the main subjects are being addressed and by whom. like I said before It is easy to why anyone can say that THIS STORY has Abraham mistakenly worshipping the stars,moon, and sun FOR DAYS.
christyes 2 years ago
CP is a looser!!
ettats 3 years ago
funny :)
xiaahmad 3 years ago