mary, you knew that our catholic church is the only one and only true and apostolic church founded by our lord Jesus Christ. He is himself who instituted the valid sacraments that we recieved, and by that sacraments we are guarrantee that we will save. There's no other churches can access the graces that we recieve in our church in order that lord may pardon us in our sins and bring our souls in salvation. Keep up your Catholic faith and god bless you
The CC will save you. You need the sacraments to save you and the Eucharist is the principle thing to save you for you eat and drink his flesh. This person knows NOTHING about Scripture especially the person below.
@sgal88 "This person knows NOTHING about Scripture especially the person below." Is this comment referring to me? If so, why don't you have the guts to respond to me, and to the comments I made? "You need the sacraments to save you" Oh really?? I guess the thief on the cross was lost then in spite of what Jesus stated to him which was: "I tell you the truth, TODAY you WILL be WITH ME in Paradise." The thief had No sacraments given to him, no baptism, no pope, priests, etc.
Yes, their are no 'intercessors' but Jesus. Yet, when we have a problem, why do we ask others to pray for us. WHy not just go directly to Jesus? IN fact, we DO ask others to pray for us. Catholics (I'm not Catholic) simply ask Mary to pray FOR them.
We are saved by Grace. But Shawn, we must DO something to STAY saved. James 2, "We are saved by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE." And Jesus said, "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love." He also said, "Pick up your Cross daily and follow me." And Shawn, the Eucharist IS in the Bible.
@westsidewarrior1972 "We are saved by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE." Really?? If you believe this, then you must DO these so-called works perfectly 100% of the time, with 100% of your being, and if you were honest, you nor any one else save Jesus, can do that. That's why salvation is of grace, not of works. Ephesians 2:8-9. Also, since you, like Mormons, like James 2, read James 2:10.
@TheJpgr1958 the above quote is from the Bible. Your second point is a straw man. NO ONE says you have be doing works perfectly 100% of the time. Yes, salvation is of Grace. The question is, "what is our response?" And "once saved always saved?" To the latter, if we are not (and I maintain we are NOT), then there is something we must do to remain saved.
@westsidewarrior1972 "NO ONE says you have be doing works perfectly 100% of the time." God does, yes? James 2 :10 very clearly states that if you, I, or any body tries keeping the whole law, yet fails in one point, we are guilty of all of them. This means NO ONE can keep the law in order to please God, only Jesus Christ did that. Jesus never sinned, correct? "then there is something we must do to remain saved." Ephesians 2: 8-9. If it's of works, then it's no longer grace.
@TheJpgr1958 James 2;14 "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does NOT have works? Can faith (alone) save him? Or 2; 17 "Thus also Faith by itself (alone) is DEAD" or 2;24 "you see then that a man is justified by WORKS and NOT by FAITH ALONE" If you don't like it , take it up wth ST. James. your Catholic friend
@CSSDINC "I don't quite understand you" Let me try to help you out then. The principal of sovereign grace involves a total rejection of human effort to win or earn the favor of God. "Grace" means that God does it all, without any help from man. Salvation must come as a free, totally undeserved gift, since man has forfeited all claim to self-justifying merit. "By grace you have been saved (past tense), through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God, not of works.....
@CSSDINC so that no one can boast"(Eph. 2:8-9) "He saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His mercy" (Titus 3:5). This means that nothing we can offer God in the way of character, service, or deeds of righteousness contributes any basis whatever for our salvation. Those who are truly saved receive Christ Himself (John 1:12) as Savior and Lord (Rom. 10:9-10); and from the dynamic of His indwelling Spirit (Col. 3:1-4), we will produce works of righteousness...
@TheJpgr I respectfuly say to you that yu continously cite Eph2;8-9 but each time you cite it, you leave out th part that draws it all together"vrs 10" When read together,it is the Catholic teaching. When abridged(vrs 8&9 with out 10)it seems to b very popular I think it could be said to be the protestant understanding (when read in incompleteness (6) The exact same can be said about Titus3;5-If you wood simply read 3;1-4 & then includ vrs 5 it comes alive and is Catholic teaching.
@TheJpgr I respectfuly say to you that yu continously cite Eph2;8-9 but each time you cite it, you leave out th part that draws it all together"vrs 10" When read together,it is the Catholic teaching. When abridged(vrs 8&9 with out 10)it seems to b very popular I think it could be said to be the protestant understanding (when read in incompleteness (6) The exact same can be said about Titus3;5-If you wood simply read 3;1-4 & then includ vrs 5 it comes alive and is Catholic teaching.
@CSSDINC And I state to you that the scriptures in context very clearly states that salvation cannot be earned, it is a gift. Salvation can't be kept by works for works are an outgrowth of salvation, not in order TO get saved, but because one IS saved. So I will stand before God, clothed in the righteousness of Christ and Him ALONE, while you will stand before Him with grace, plus a whole laundry list of things YOU did meritoriously. Those works will mean nothing.
@CSSDINC and goodness that will manifest the life of Christ within us. ("As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" [James 2:26]). So again, man contributes nothing substantive toward his salvation-if he is saved at all. Even saving faith is the gift of God, and God receives all the glory for the sinner's conversion (Eph. 2:9). All the unsaved man can do is face up to the claims of Christ ans assent to the proffer of His grace. This response of assent bears no..
@CSSDINC resemblance to a work of merit; it is simply the act of a beggar who reaches up his empty hand to receive a gift from his benefactor. Such an act has nothing to do with merit; it does nothing to make the beggar more deserving than another beggar who keeps his hands folded in his lap. The gift is bestowed out of pity and grace. "God, having out of His mere good pleasure, from all eternity, elected some to everlasting life, did enter into a covenant of grace, to deliver them out of...
@CSSDINC the estate of sin and misery, and to bring them into a state of salvation by a Redeemer; John 17:6; Eph. 1:4; Titus 1:2; 3:7. This statement can hardly be improved on as a classic formulation of the doctrine of grace. So again, any works one does after being saved is an OUTGROWTH of salvation, not to GET salvation. No meritorious works, no priests, popes, alms, etc, are needed. "If you don't like it , take it up wth ST. James." I have no problems with the book of James.
@TheJpgr1958 Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism) sure did though, I don't know if your a fan of his but He wanted to throw the book of James out of "His" bible. He called it an "epistle of straw). Some of the other reformers convinced him not to. But his attitude remained the same. Can you imagine what the world would (rightly) say if the catholic church or some Pope had thrown books out of the bible? I love the Book of James and have no problem with it, I .....
@TheJpgr1958 dot have the slightest clue why you think I (a Catholic) would have a problem with any book in the bible for the fact of history shows that the new testament was written by Catholics, was compiled by Catholics and was preserved to this day for and by Catholics (and everyone else) Read your encyclopedia if you do not already know that. You seem like a well educated person, do you REALLY believe in your heart that the Church that Jesus himself founded and has remained...
@TheJpgr ....unified for 2 thousand years(despite the many sinners who have comprised it) teaches that ones works get him saved? If you do your wrong. We are savd by Grace thrugh faith Eph2;8 NOT BY WORKS Eph 2;9 for good works Eph2;10 THAT IS THE CATHULIC TEACHING PLAIN AND SIMPLE remember; if the Catholic church was so bad and didn't believe what their own book said- they could have changed it as much as they desired, there were no other Christians they were free to make it say..
@CSSDINC "We are savd by Grace thrugh faith Eph2;8 NOT BY WORKS Eph 2;9 for good works Eph2;10" Without getting into the other items you brought up, I can agree with you, but the problem with what you state is that you don't put the word "alone" into the equation. Even though the word does not appear in the text, that is implied. If all of our works are as dirty rags, then salvation HAS to be by faith alone. Again, the "good works" Eph. 2:10 speaks of, can't save you, nor can if keep you saved.
@TheJpgr1958 You did'nt watch that video (John Martignoni is a dead body really a body) did you? I might like to point out to you that the ONLY place in scripture that Faith and alone are found together- it is preceded by " You see then that a man is justified by works, and NOT by faith alone. What kind of gymnastics can a person come up with to try say James and God that they did'nt know what they were talking about. This is the perfect example of traditions of men which nullify..
@TheJpgr1958 ..... the CLEAR word of God. For the sake of our dear Lord Jesus christ can't you see all of the flaws in the theology you follow. Not only that but the whole theological system u follow is less than five hundred years old. It is NOT what the early christians believed not even close. Please be open minded about the Catholic faith, it(JESUS) is HIS body & you won't even listen to it. Did some Catholic offend you, I don't understand why your heart is so hard. I was.....
@TheJpgr1958 ....You see I was once some-what anti Catholic and my wife was raised as a protestant. But we listened to the facts, to the arguments on both sides we studied history and most importantly we studied the Bible and we chose to follow the only church that Jesus founded,plain and simple. We could have remained protestant and had more excitng and entertaining services to attend ,but we chose simple TRUTH. on sunday we worship God in spirit and in truth. We go to mass to..
@TheJpgr1958 .....worship God and not neccesarily to have fun. For the mass was prophesid long ago by the prophet Malachi 1;11 "FOR FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN EVEN TO ITS GOING DOWN, MY NAME SHALL BE GREAT AMONG THE GENTILES; IN EVERY PLACE INCENSE SHALL BE OFFERED TO MY NAME, AND A PURE OFFERING; FOR MY NAME SHALL BE GREAT AMONG THE NATIONS", SAYS THE LORD OF HOSTS. If You don't see the mass being prophesied let me know and I will break it down for you. And if somehow you......
@CSSDINC The works spoken of is an OUT GROWTH of the fact that one IS ALREADY SAVED BY FAITH. So this is once again the great divide between Catholics and Evangelicals, and it will always be so. Any works I do is for HIS glory and honor, not in order for me to get or remained saved. As for you stating that the Bible is a Roman Catholic book or something to that effect, Rome had nothing to do with the Old Testament, which was in place LONG before Rome. So that for me shoots down this claim.
@TheJpgr1958 .......Jesus found. And please don't try to say it was an invisible church. There is just to much in the bible that proves the church is to be very visible. I am curious , and will you be able corrobarate that in any way?
@TheJpgr1958 I stated that the Catholic Church wrote and decided (in council) just like the council in Jerusalem( acts) what books would be scripture and what books would not be scripture. And the Catholic Church preservered the Bible. God's instrument on earth( "the Pillar and Foundation of the truth" 1st Tim 3;15) so that guys like you and me could share in the joy.OK a little debate is alright.
@CSSDINC And as for your statements about the Roman Catholic church being unified for two thousand years, and that Protestants have some of the truth, etc, well, all groups who suffer from what I like to the "The True Church Syndrome," state this. RC, Mormons Jehovah Witnesses, Moonies, Muslims, Oneness, plus others, all suffer from it. They want to claim this "Specialness" to themselves, that God/Jesus appeared to their leader or prophet personally and instructed them, and so on and so on.
@TheJpgr1958 1 VERY important distinction Only the Catholic Church was Founded By Jesus None others and I mean zero and this can not be denied. All OTHER "churches" were founded by a man (not God) there fore they are all man made. I respectfully as possible have to say that I think your in a Your in serious denial. HISTORY BEARS IT OUT WITHOUT QUESTION. If you continue to claim that the Catholic church was not founded by Jesus himself than please explain what church exactly did
@CSSDINC Rome is just another voice in the vast wilderness of voices who all claim the exact same things. So there is nothing unique in what you state.
@CSSDINC I did forget to add the following...The Roman Catholic church, when you boil down to it, does not have good news, for a RC can't say for certain that they are saved. They have to wait when they die to know if they have done enough of those good works so they can go into God's presence and into Heaven. Since Scripture states that NO WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS will do one any good in the end, I HAVE salvation NOW. That my friend is good news. It's not arrogent nor wrong to state this.
@TheJpgr1958 If I believed what you believe, I too would be against the Catholic Church too!!! But as I said before... I have been on both sides- I KNOW what evangelicals believe, and I DO NOT misrepresent what they believe. You My friend, may know evengelicalism but you REALLY, REALLY REALLY do not know Catholism. You repeat every common objection (which is almost always a misrepresentation of what I and 6 billion other belivers believe. I really hope you get what I am saying.....
@TheJpgr LITERALLY every time you sa "what" the Catholic Church teches u are wrong. I KNOW the faith, for I studied them both long and hard becoming Catholic. If you whet to Jerusalem to do a story about Israel, would you only interview the palestinians? How much unbiased information do you think you would get from them? It sounds ludacriss, But that is exactly what you have done, and somehow that seems to be ok? Have you ever read a book written by a Catholic (besides the bible)?..
@TheJpgr ....anything they wanted it to say....and yet it was preserved and hand copied so many times over and over and over again since originally written. With all of the different Priest and Monks who faithfully copied such a long set of writings not even one person changed a single thing. That is simply miraculous since everyone of them was a sinner just like you and me.
@TheJpgr Ther is a great litle utub video that delves into Jam2;19-26 any one reading this should look at this short vdeo just search using this -"John Martignoni is a dead body really a body" John deftly opens up th scripture verses where James uses the analogy of "Body and Spirit" & Faith and Works" Caution you will b entering the no spin Catholic zone. All joking aside I think you will begin to understand What James means when He compares "the body to faith" and "spirit to works"
@CSSDINC I look at the entire teaching on any given subject, read all the passages relating to the particular topic in the context in which the authors wrote, and then come to the correct rendering of the passages. It takes time, and a lot of reading and studying, but this is what we are called to do, to rightly divide the Word of God. And because of this, there is and always will be, a wide chasm between the Roman Catholic Church and Evangelicals.
@TheJpgr1958 2nd peter 1;20-21 "knowing this first, that no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophesy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2nd Peter3;16 ....as also in all his(Pauls) epistles speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the scriptures. You therefore..
@TheJpgr1958 .......beloved, since you know these things beforehand, beware lest you also fall from steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked: BUT GROW IN THE GRACE and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.You see the problem is EGO. Evangelicals believe that without the leaders JESUS GAVE US-BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS they themselves can "rightly divide the word of God" and create out of nothing(something only God can doBTW)their own religious creation...
@TheJpgr1958 And then they have the gall to say that we are the ones who are wrong. If this is so, Why has the high Priestly prayer of JesusJn 17;20-24 come to pass with reference to the One Holy Catholic Church remaining perfectly one for 2 thousand years, and yet your protesting church split and splits and split because of dissentions upon dissentions. Jesus' prayer is completely inefectual in the protestant churches. Christ unites ,Diablo divides, and sadly that has been the....
@TheJpgr1958 ..... case since Martn Luther (see Korahs rebellion) "broke from the true communion of believers(I don't mean to say that there is no truth in the protestant churches, just that it is limited to how much any particular church holds of Catholic Doctrine) Like the home the foolish builder built on sand it collapses constantly yet the church built BY JESUS is built upon rock and does not collapse. Now everyone who hears these sayings should take head. Peace and Blessings
@CSSDINC I highly encourage you to study this and other topics, apart from what Rome tells you. Mary, Saints, Popes, can't hear your prayers, nor can they do anything for you. Only Christ and belief on Him ALONE is what will matter in the end. Just like the thief on the cross. Just like the woman who went to the house where Jesus was dining with people, and upon entering the home, ignored everyone and ran to HIM, and proceeded to wash His feet with her tears and dry them with her hair.
@CSSDINC I do hope this helps you. If not, then all I can do pray that God will open your eyes to this great free gift from God, and that you, I, nor any one will stand before Him on judgement day and give a laundry list of things that we did in order to get saved or to remain saved. All glory goes to Him and Him alone.
@westsidewarrior1972 Don't feel bad, Mormons, Roman Catholics, Jehovah Witness, Moonies, Oneness, plus other groups who all claim to be the true church, don't like very much Ephesians 2:8-9, people in these groups hardly if ever quote it, nor do they like James 2:10.
@TheJpgr1958 Wow...... I am Catholic and love scripture. I particularly wish folks like you new more than just a couple of favorite verses to throw out there you REALLY must read the very next verse Eph; 2;10 PLEASE do it. I hope you can admit that these really aren't verses that a protestant should be trying to beat a catholic with, UNLESS of course you ONLY quote the first two verses which is incomplete. Now .... is that honest, I'll bet you did'nt realize that vrs 10 reverse
@CSSDINC I bet you didn't realize that verse ten (Eph 2;8-10) completely reverses the point protestants try to make using vrs's 8 and 9 alone. Thats ok if thats the case just don't do it any more. A friend in Jesus
@TheJpgr1958 I am sorry for you that you don't believe Jesus started a church to go out into the world and convert it. Yes there is one true church & yes there is no limit 2 the counterfitters whether it be groups or individuals every where who think they know better than the oldest institution on earth: the Catholic church- only by Gods Grace when you think about all the sinners in it. Don't be a denier, the truth is so beautiful more so than a stainedglass window w/th corect view
@CSSDINC The first issue I want to respond to is this statement you made: "You see I was once some-what anti Catholic." You do realize that when ever a person utilizes the phrase "anti" into a conversation, it's meant to be nothing more than a ugly pejorative, usually slapped on anyone who questions or disagrees with the teachings of one's faith, in this instance, the RC faith, and implies that the perceived critic (me) is somehow "against" (anti) Roman Catholics (as individuals).
@CSSDINC You do realize also that when you as a RC flippantly throw down the hate or"anti" card, you run the risk of bearing false witness. Have you ever, let's say, in dealing with Mormons, which I'm sure you have doctrinal disagreements with, been called an "anti-Mormon" by them? Do you like that sort of name calling? Are YOU motivated by hate? I don't believe you are, and may I say neither am I towards you as a RC. Just remember that using that kind of language, is often a means of....
@CSSDINC avoiding meaningful dialog, critical thinking, and most important self-examination. So for future dialoging, I would suggest you to not play that card, for it makes you look silly. As for the remainder of your comments, you did state quite a lot which had really nothing to do with the topic at hand. You also stated that you have studies both sides of this issue, so no matter what I or any one else responds to you with, you have come to the conclusion that I am wrong.
@CSSDINC With that said, I will try to get back to the topic at hand, and let me remind you of the very important issue at stake for both Protestants and RC: peace with God. A gospel that does not bring peace is not a gospel at all. The message that the RC church brings to the table, a message of works-righteousness, that calls someone to strive to obtain peace with God through various ceremonies or duties, could not be logically be called a gospel of peace nor of good news.
@CSSDINC Such a message brings nothing but turmoil to the hearts of of tose who struggle to meet the impossible standards built into such systems. If one does not have peace with the Creator, all else in meaningless. That is why the good news of Scriptures such as Romans 5:1 "Therefore, having been (past tense) justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" puts me at complete peace with God. There is nothing I can do to have this, it's a gift of God.
@CSSDINC It has nothing to do with me, nor is it of my own making. It depends totally on the work of another, the perfect Peacemaker, the Savior, Jesus Christ. and Him alone. You asked if I have read other books besides the Bible. I have, and the following quote I believe puts the kind of peace, or lack of peace with God, you have in a nutshell: "The reason for the uncertainty of the state of grace lies in this, that without a special revelation nobody can with certainty of faith....
@CSSDINC know whether or not he has fulfilled all the conditions that are necessary for achieving justification." Lugwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, pg. 262. This is the fundamental important issue that will always separate RC and Protestants, and nothing less that peace with God Himself is at stake. Can you as a RC "fulfill" conditions so as to "achieve" justification, or has Christ fulfilled all those conditions for His people, so that He can be described as the one who....
@CSSDINC "will save His people from their sins"? (Matthew 1:21). I can go on, but I have made my point. So again, and I know I'm repeating myself, I will stand on the day of judgement and bow my head in humility and say to Him that there is nothing that I did or could do to gain salvation, it was a free gift from Him. You on the other hand will give a laundry list of things you did meritoriously. You will have something to boast about, I will not.
@CSSDINC There is something else I would like for to think about. You as a RC have stated to me that Rome has this God-given unity, found in "tradition," and a living head who can interpret doctrine and safeguard the faith. The RC church is against abortion, so I believe you would be as well, correct? If what the RC church states is true, then why did Notre Dame, a RC institution, allow Obama, the most pro-abortion President ever elected into office, to speak at their graduating class in 2009?
@CSSDINC Why didn't your so-called leader the pope, call up the priest/priests who runs Notre Dame and tell him/them to rescind the invitation to the most pro-abortion American President of all time? What good then is it to have an infallible leader who dosen't lead? As the "shepherd" of the flock, he surely knew a ravenous wolf was going to be let loose in the flock of students at Notre Dame, did he not? As a RC, does this not concern you, and if you were a RC at the time, did you speak out?
@TheJpgr1958 You bring up resonable concerns to which I will do my best to answer. But for now I have an enormous work load.I will respond as I can find the time. I am not going anywhere, I do want to continue this conversation, but I am a business owner and (fortunately) I have just landed a very large job. Please be patient, I know you have a good heart and I I agree with much of what said. I will be back. Peace and Blessings, Mike
@westsidewarrior1972 "then there is something we must do to remain saved." How did the thief on the cross accomplish this? What works did he do in order to remain saved?
@TheJpgr1958 It was a little late for the thief to do much whilst pinned to the cross, are you seriuos? your statement about the thief on the cross is nothing more than 'cliche of men" I don't think that you folks that like to ask this question even think about what you sayiing, it just sounds good. Most of the verses in the new testament concerning salvation are highly dependant on what a person did or did not do in this life. see James 2;14-24
@CSSDINC "your statement about the thief on the cross is nothing more than 'cliche of men" Umm, no, not really. The passage is just demonstrating to us that faith can work any where, no need for baptism, a priest, last rites, the pope, nothing but faith and trust in Christ ALONE! "Most of the verses in the new testament concerning salvation are highly dependant on what a person did or did not do in this life." The thief was saved by trusting in Christ alone. He did no works my friend.
@TheJpgr1958 Your right, If any non believer becoms a believer just bfore he dies, he is saved like the thief on the cross no one is saying that at that point anything other than belief is necesary. I think we can agree on this but that is exceptional. The norm is belief followed by a life of good works(love for God & others). See Matt 7;21,19;16-17,Jn14;21, Rom 2;2-8,Gal5;4-6,Eph2;8-10,Phil2;12-13, Jam2;14-24 Every single verse given here is EXACTLY what the Catholic church teaches
@CSSDINC If the thief did any kinds of work, please tell us what they were. If you can't and you know you can't, then you have nothing to say. And I see you didn't comment on James 2:10. If you were honest, you would state that you fail at keeping the laws of God, just like everyone else, so salvation has to be of grace. "I am Catholic and love scripture." No, just particular verses that your priest tells you to read. Oh by the way, since the Catholic church has only officially translated...
@TheJpgr1958 It's kinda hard for a man pinned to a cross to do much of anything, belief is SUFFICIENT. If you think that Catholics deny that deathbed conversions save, than I really do understand why you so strongly dislike what you think about her. James 2;10 Of course I fail and sin,agreed. I really don't see a problem with your position for we are saved by Grace through faith working itself out in love, for faith without love is nothing" 1 Cor 13;2
@CSSDINC about 7 verses, then any other verse you cite us are of your own private interpretation. And as for Eph. 2, look at the context my friend, which you seem to not care too much about. Not that it doesn't surprise me. Re-read verse 8 closely. It states "For by grace you HAVE BEEN saved (past tense), through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." So those who have believed on Christ are already saved. So the "works" spoken of which are in verse 10, does not save us.
@CSSDINC So far from your statement that Eph 2:8-10 "completely reverses the point protestants try to make using vrs's 8 and 9 alone," it reemphasizes that our works are useless to God's plan. When I stand before Christ on Judgment day, I will bow my head in humility and state that nothing I could ever do is good enough for Him. Just His shed blood. You on the other hand will give Him a whole list of things that you did, and His response will be "Fascinating," sarcastically of course.
@TheJpgr1958 a little patience and love in you tone might convey to me that you are a believer! I COMPLETELY agree with verses 8and 9. 8="for by grace you have been saved" YES GODS DOING. "through faith" AMEN. "and not of yourselves" WE DON"T CAUSE IT " it is a gift of God" THIS ISTHE CATHOLIC UNDERSTANDING. stop saying otherwise you now no better continued
@TheJpgr1958 this is from "continued" Eph 2;9 "not of works lest anyone should boast" very straight forward- No amount of works can earn God's gift of grace it is a free GIFT I think we agree. Vrs10 "For we are his workmanship" ( uh-oh its seems God works to,it must not be all that bad of a thing). "created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS" I'm not going to instruct you of what you believe like you seem to do, but if I was created for good works than by gosh I'm going to do them
@CSSDINC So if this is what you are planning to do, then as you stated to me: "if thats the case just don't do it any more." I would advise you to adhere to your own statement. "A friend in Jesus" Are you really?
@TheJpgr1958 Am I to understand you in saying that when one believes(has faith) and does nothing good for God and his fellow man, that he is justified? The exceptional death bed conversions of course are different for obvious reasons.
I have a problem when I see someone else has the experience of feeling the warmth and love of the spirit of God, but who does not have the same faith as me. It is because of my insecurity. But I still take the time to acknowledge their warmth. Book shelve my temporary doubt and continue to believe that that warmth is important, tangible and has shown me small miracles in the best.
Are you a better person for disbelieving in the mormon church more importantly are you a better person for arguing against it? I never feel closer to God when I belittle or simplify something that gives other people comfort and the spirit. Maybe we should just focus on the beam in our own eye for awhile. Why don't we argue against our lesser selves? Why am I not a better person? Is it I who is a betrayer of christ's principle of love?
Hmmm. This is not accurate. Catholics do not believe that one is saved merely by being confirmed. The Catholic Church teaches that one is saved by cooperating with the grace given to us from God through Christ's death and resurrection. The Reformers had a slightly different perspective, but if the Catholics and Orthodox are wrong about salvation, then most Christians historically and now are mistaken. If this is true, does this not impugn the guiding of the HS?
The Catholic Church is actually the merging of Christianity with ancient Babylonian paganism. Note that many Catholics make reference to St. Andrew, or St. Bartholomew, etc. These many saints are still invoked in the Catholic Church, and were used by the Pagans even before Christ's birth. Nowhere within the KJV are Christians instructed to pray to Mary.
No, the Catholic Church does NOT teach a "works based" salvation Gospel. There is NO "companion book" to the BIBLE. You guys need to go change your "holy underwear" and get your facts straight..like I do when you creeps come to the door. Why weren't black people allowed into your "church" until a generation ago? Your religion is a CULT.
@bheadh I'm a convert to the LDS church and we believe the Book of Mormon to be another testament of Jesus Christ. The LDS church will bring you closer to Jesus Christ and the Bible than any othe church. I know there are many things written about Mormons that are taken out of context, distorted, and just plain false. I read all this stuff over 30 years ago when I was first investigating the Church! I took the time to learn the truth. I can't imagine being a member of any other church.
@bheadh Also, if you talked to official LDS missionaries or people in the LDS church, you would understand about black people and the church. Do some investigating! I did! Talk to other blacks in the LDS church, they will help explain it to you. Hope that helps.
@cindybin2001 3 ladies for your cult (1 being black) came to my door. After exposing the black lady because of your refusal to allow blacks into mormonism until 1977,...it hit a nerve with her and the other two "missionaries" tried to convince her differently. She walked away from them @ my doorstep. 1 lady followed her and the other stood there with me calling me names and insulting me for making me lose 1 of their "converts". It states in the Bible that there is NO "companion book" to it.
@bheadh See? Now you are just proving that you don't understand what the LDS church is all about. Blacks have ALWAYS been allowed in the Mormon church. Please take the time to learn the truth. As I have said, I'm a convert to the LDS church and I know there are many things written about Mormons that are distorted and just plain false. I read all this stuff over 30 years ago when I was first investigating! I took the time to learn the truth. I wish others would as well.
@cindybin2001 You mentioned in a previous comment box to talk to Mormon missionaries concerning blacks. Well I had 2 Missionaries at my home the other day, and I asked them this question. It's off topic, not about blacks, but this. The Mormon church teaches that the Bible is the word of God, in so far as it is translated correctly. I asked these 2 Mormons to please provide for me the passages from both Old/New Testament that are not correctly translated, the grammatical reason/s....
@TheJpgr1958 Well how could they provide the passages that aren't translated correctly? We don't know which ones, because we weren't there all those years ago! Anyway, it is good to have additional scripture and latter-day revelation that helps shed light on the more difficult-to-understand passages in the Bible. It really does help make sense of it all. Also, read A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards. It helps explain the doctrines of the church and misunderstood scriptures.
@cindybin2001 why they are not translated correctly, and the to provide the correct translation. Needless to say, they were both of no help, because they couldn't answer me. Can you please provide us with the information?
Remarkable arrogance. The Protestant understanding of salvation was unknown until the sixteenth or seventeenth century, so we are supposed to believe that the majority of Christians are damned because they were unaware of this teaching?! And I suppose that is more sensible that Mormonism?! I'm not a Mormon, but this idea that only certain Protestant Christians will be saved is a NEGATION of God's love. Period.
that is not cool to tell people that the Catholic Church's faith will not save people who are you to tell people that, i think that you are the one that needs to be saved, that is against the law to judge people based on their faith, and personally i think that the catholic church is fine! I am a catholic, how dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @#$%&*^(&
@2007seelen But it is true that no Church or building named wateva can save any1 and this is biblical and we should all be thankful that some1 dares to tell it 2us and shows it with scriptural verses, the problem i see is we are so much accustumed to a religion or faith and tradition to really seek the truth in scriptures, we all have a Bible at home lets read it, there is so much information on the web and this channel to enlighten us all, we could have been misled. :)
What a clown wow he just bashes on the LDS Faith that is NOT Christ Like at all. This guy is a big fraud. He never had a testimony when a was a member of the LDS Faith. Find out for your self if it is true I did and am a faithfull member.
@nateariotti so we must trust ur word over someone elses hmm,why is it common for lds 2scream out the ¨that is not christ like¨ statement, is there one single person Christ-like in the world¿?¿ Please leave that alone its so pathetic of a defense stance.Ur interpretation and high sacred value of the word ¨testimony¨ minimizes scriptural facts as only those who agree with you have been enlighten by God, what if Monson was to declare 2morrow LDS church a fraud,oh yeah then he never had testimony
It amazes me how respectful Shawn is to this caller (compared to mormon callers) despite the things she is saying and that he clearly disagrees with her beliefs. And what he says at the end. Interesting.
Galatians 2-16 "know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. "
2-21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
Luke 7-50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Galatians 2-16 "know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. "2-21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”Luke 7-50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
It is false that the Catholic Church teaches a works based salvation. The Catholic Church teaches that intiial salvation is by faith, and that salvation is worked out through faith and works. Its all in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Strange that a fringe non-Christian cult would have the nerve to call the Roman Catholic Church the "Whore of Babylon". LOL If the Catholic Church is the "Whore of Babylon" then what is the Church of Jesus Christ* of Latter Day Saints? Her sleezy pimp in a purple suit? LOL! I don't have any great love for Catholics, but COME ON!!! This is ridiculous. It's like somebody with Down-Sydrome telling an autistic guy he's retarded. Am I supposed to laugh or cry?
ignorance breeds contempt. One very bright shiny day the illegitimate protestant heresy will be exposed. The point of that statement is this: as the empire of Mohammad marched toward the heart if western civilization, the saving factor was europe's powerful, centric Church which propelled the might if the day to stop the Muslim onslaught. Protestants are terrifically jealous of bit Catholics and the people chosen by God, the Jews. Protestant heretics treat the worship Awesome God like the goin
The Roman Church, is the modern day Sanhedrin. How many rules have to be created, and how many saints have to be murdered, before "catholics" realize this.
(NKJV) James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Wow, somebody needsto read the WHOLE Bible before he acts like a minister. Feel free to call the local Parish, I mean, we canonized the books of the Bible, I'm sure there's an extra copy laying around somewhere. SMH
This man would make a great catholic priest and speak very well for the love of Christ. He is confused on Mary and the faith. "All generations will call me blessed" That really means something. Medjugorje.
Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum, SubSection 2: “If faith is not expressed in works, it is dead (cf. Jas 2:14-16) and cannot bear fruit unto eternal life.
The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by God’s grace through our faith. The Catholic Church teaches that we cannot be saved by our works. But, then, this has been shown to you many times before, and you prefer to wallow in untruth. Works cannot save anyone
It started with the BOM? Dude my life as a Protestant & as a Born-Again Protestant were both built with borrowed materials from the Roman Catholic Church as you do today; borrowed doctrines. All Protestants hate the Catholic Church (study King Henry 5th. & Pope Clement era) so they interpret the Bible pointing their fingers to the Catholic as the whore of Babylon & many other interpretations..Mormonisms was never around at the time. Stop spreading these lies
Catholics are not whores of Babylon. Catholics are saved because it is 2000 years old, it does everything the first christians did and it was started by Jesus Christ and his apostles. Catholics have God and Jesus Christ. We are baptised in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. We are the only church that does it right. WE are saved by the GRACE OF GOD!. We don't judge other churches, we respect all christianity. Only God has the right to judge, we people don't.
The abominable church mentioned in the Book of Mormon has been interpreted in 2 common ways. 1: Catholic Church. 2: all churches that oppose Jesus Christ church is the one abominable church.
Yes, what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is part of the ONE church, the abominable church. There are two churches on the earth: the abominable church and then there's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Christ's church
Asking "how are you saved" implies that you have adopted a belief system in which you need to be saved in the first place. It's like asking you "how do you escape the cycle of birth and rebirth?" Don't you see how that question is exploitative from the start?
Catholics started christianity! Then the prodestants broke off and changed a few things in the bible to make it work for them. the catholic church is the only apostolic church in all of christianity. and prodestants definiton of saved is wrong. when you are saved in catholisism you have passed the last judgement and can pass into heaven. you cannot be saved while still on earth or you could just run around commiting sins and get away with it. Get you facts right.
@nash1328 wrong the catholic church was founded in the 4th century it is one of misconception that says otherwise. there are some things in Catholicism and Christianity that are the same, but Catholicism diverged from 1st century teachings when it was formed. you don't understand catholic teaching or protestant teaching, there is only god and his son Jesus Christ in Christianity the worship of other peoples even if by intersession is a sin. this is a fact about biblical Christianity
@nash1328 Saying that "Catholics started Christianity" is a kin to saying I Love Lucy started TV. They were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Read the Epistles to learn what the early Christian Church was like.
Their are no saints huh. so the people that don't turn into dust are what. honestly, I detest the guts of people like him who think their religion is way better then the one we practice. the funny thing is he didn't say how mormons are saved. with money!! let me say something loud and clear, believe in what you want people, but to this blonde ass I wanna tell you this. YOU WONT BUY GOD WITH MONEY!!
I think the Fellow really loses it. Firts he bashes the mormons in his typical arogant way for a statement made by Mckonkie then bashes a lady who is Catholic. This man loves bashing yet criticises others for such acts.
religion means rituals , rituals are a form of discipline , the rosary and the 12 steps for alcoholic's work the same way , some people say you must not understand mary's divinity to know jesus is the christ ! people will join to belong and are blind by vanity , im a roman catholic by religion , it helps me understand history of god , faith and the humbleness is demanded of me by christ ! people can take religion to romanticism . i dont go to church for sake of others , i go for christ
That is odd, I believe Jesus Christ said "except a man be born of water and spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom Of Heaven" Baptism is a required ordinance of salvation. Would he consider this a buffer between man and God??
Baptism of Water and of the Spirit. Oh yeah and Christ also said keep my commandments. So whoever this guy is , he has not read the bible or does not understand the Masters teachings.
The only place in the Bible where the words "faith alone" are written, the words "Not by" are right in front of it. There is onle one Truth. Either you are right or we (Catholcis) are right. We can't both be right. Investigate where the Bible you read came from. Return to the one True Faith established directly by Jesus to his Apostle Peter. Don't take my word for it. Take Jesus' word for it.
This is insanity, protestantism can never be the way into the Kingdom. You need an authorized priesthood to conduct the ordinances of Salvation. There are only two churches that have the potential to have such a priesthood. Mormonism (the priesthood restored from apostasy) and Catholicism ( the priesthood that's been around since Christ's time).
Protestants are nothing more than Catholic apostates so they have no claim to the authority to act on behalf of God.
The Catholic Church was referred to the Whore of Babylon by Protestants in England. As they came to America they bought their ideas with them. When Irish Catholics showed up in Joseph Smiths back yard to build the Erie Canal those words started to appear in print all over again. Just Google the words Whore of Babylon and anti-catholic or anti-catholic and Erie Canal.
Very annoying at 1:13 he starts in with his very evangelical protestant views.
Mary needs to be catechised in the RCIA.
1. you are not saved by faith alone apart from works, read James 2
2. yes the Catholic institution is going to do something for you, it will sanctify you with the sacraments as commanded by Christ in particular Baptism, and the Eucharist, etc..
3. Yes it is by grace, but only as a begining point into salvation.
biblical Christianity is not evangelical Protestantism!
Evangelical Protestantism is done for fame and money, not for Christ and is the polar opposite of Biblical Christianity. Many Evangelists will stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement declaring there massive works and how much they did in the name of Christ and he will say " I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23)
@ViCe1986 thats an interesting idea, because Protestantism doesn't really do much with works, for example: I am not baptised, according to Protestantism I don't have to be, Protestants don't count prayers, ect. Im not saying that Catholics aren't Christian or that the oppisit of what you said would happen, I just thought it was a little odd. also, in my church, the people vote on how to spend the money, and the Pope is way more famous than pastors? Pastors are usually poor...
According to Christ you must be born of water and of spirit (baptism and gift of the holy ghost) to enter heaven. This is called being born again, if anyone teaches you differently than what Christ taught then they are wrong not Christ.
@ViCe1986 You do have to be born again, but of the the spirit. Spirit gives birth to spirit. Anyway, I will get baptised at some point, but I want it to be at a certain time. I know my stepmom hasn't been, shes waiting to get baptised by my dad
That's not what Christ said he said "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)
Peter tells us that we must be born of water before we can receive the Holy Ghost, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." (Acts 10:47-48)
"They throw in the Eucharist..." ??? I'll let the Lord himself answer that one:
"... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink". Check out John 6:51-58.
"Mary", the caller is wrong in her beliefs about Confirmation. Catholics are saved thru Baptism. Many Catholics I know have a personal relationship with Jesus, All of the Catholic tenets are rooted in the bible, and can be pointed out.
If you ever want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, sit down with a Priest and ask him to explain it; we, unlike the Mormons, will not try to convert you to our way of thinking.
The caller is mistaken, this isn't what Catholics believe...we believe the same as Protestants, that by GOD'S GRACE we are saved!! Unfortunately many fall into the trap of legalism....
The Catholic church may not be perfect but they did get somethings right. Unfortunately on the flip side Christians such as the host of this show threw the baby out with the bedwater. They turned to a Calvinistic/Zwinglistic view of Baptism and Communion that extracts some of the fundamental truths out of Christianity.
Either way you look at it, if it wasn't for the Catholics we wouldn't be here.
@Allante715 The Holy Roman Catholic Church is perfect, because it and it alone is the mystical body of Christ on earth. History and the Bible are crystal clear on that. The individual members of the Catholic Church are imperfect and make mistakes, but the Church itself is the teaching office of the Pope and the Magesterium. The office, not the individuals themselves. The office founded by Christ himself and protected and guided by the Holy Spirit, is perfect. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I completely disagree. The Catholic Church ended in 1054 and has been forever split into the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. Because of the complete lack of humility the Pope decided that he was more important then every other partriarch and the schism of Christainity began. If I was to chose betweent he Orthodox or Catholic Church, the Orthodox church has stayed true to the teachings of the bible and of the Early Church fathers more so then the Catholic Church.
@Ingle92protege good dont respond to me anymore,cause you have shown you cant reason with anything,all you do is insult people and their faith,and by those tactics you think it brings people to christ,and no you havent shown any truth,you just parrot the same garbage! your lord and savior shawn mccraney tells you to say.
@Ingle92protege so you think by calling me names give you any credibility,yeah goes to show how hypocritical you are when you call me a five year old and an idiot,what a shiny example you are for christ!
@Ingle92protege nope god is perfect god doesnt make mistakes,apparently? we are a christian church whether you agree with that or not it really makes no difference what you think we are,we have always been christian since the begining and always will be,call us names,slander us,hate us all you want,not gonna make one bit of difference what you think our status is!
@Ingle92protege oh dear because i wont give you the satisfaction or enjoyment making fun of me and building up your self-esteem,you can talk shit on me and call me all kinds of names over the internet if it makes you feel tough inside
@Ingle92protege nope just because we interpret differently than you doesnt mean its in contradiction,nope im not going to tell you my age just so you can get satiisfaction with it and build your self-esteem you certainly got issues lad!,yep i did say that he said that your right,but your saying that the mormon,you can attack my character all you want,it just looks really stupid and foolish on you,and yet you ask me how old i am? nope not giving you any satisfaction from it,so y uo can bully me
@Ingle92protege you gonna adress the issues or keep being evasive,i never said god made a mistake you said that now back up your claim that had sad that....he did say that whether you agree with that or not so ask god why he sad that not me!
@Ingle92protege your putting words into my mouth that i didnt say you dingbat!,nope god is right look how many churches are off the path yours included,nope god didnt make a mistake he was very plain and clear what he said,look at emperror constantine,the nicean creed,the dark ages,the crusades,and the catholic church,but really any church tath has strayed away from being the church taht it was in the ancient days,your sure a modern day pharisee if anything!
@Ingle92protege yeah and i could say the same thing about you,you are acusing us of saying that ourselves,fight and argue with god whatever makes you happy
@Ingle92protege you take that one up with god have fun trying to do that,we didnt say it the lord did say it,so dont lose your faith in christ over this one .....lol
so attacking on churches is how you help people come unto christ??
bzxhst 1 week ago
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mary, you knew that our catholic church is the only one and only true and apostolic church founded by our lord Jesus Christ. He is himself who instituted the valid sacraments that we recieved, and by that sacraments we are guarrantee that we will save. There's no other churches can access the graces that we recieve in our church in order that lord may pardon us in our sins and bring our souls in salvation. Keep up your Catholic faith and god bless you
lovencare62 1 week ago
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lovencare62 1 week ago
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lovencare62 1 week ago
Mormons fail!
they have been inspired by rebellion to break from the True Roman Catholic Apostolic Church.
Is not Jesus powerful enough to establish a church that will last til the end of time?
Mormons are Free Mason who are anti Clerical and want to destroy the Body of Christ!
TheKmart7 1 week ago
The CC will save you. You need the sacraments to save you and the Eucharist is the principle thing to save you for you eat and drink his flesh. This person knows NOTHING about Scripture especially the person below.
sgal88 4 weeks ago
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@sgal88 "This person knows NOTHING about Scripture especially the person below." Is this comment referring to me? If so, why don't you have the guts to respond to me, and to the comments I made? "You need the sacraments to save you" Oh really?? I guess the thief on the cross was lost then in spite of what Jesus stated to him which was: "I tell you the truth, TODAY you WILL be WITH ME in Paradise." The thief had No sacraments given to him, no baptism, no pope, priests, etc.
TheJpgr1958 4 weeks ago
Yes, their are no 'intercessors' but Jesus. Yet, when we have a problem, why do we ask others to pray for us. WHy not just go directly to Jesus? IN fact, we DO ask others to pray for us. Catholics (I'm not Catholic) simply ask Mary to pray FOR them.
westsidewarrior1972 1 month ago
We are saved by Grace. But Shawn, we must DO something to STAY saved. James 2, "We are saved by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE." And Jesus said, "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love." He also said, "Pick up your Cross daily and follow me." And Shawn, the Eucharist IS in the Bible.
westsidewarrior1972 1 month ago
@westsidewarrior1972 "We are saved by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE." Really?? If you believe this, then you must DO these so-called works perfectly 100% of the time, with 100% of your being, and if you were honest, you nor any one else save Jesus, can do that. That's why salvation is of grace, not of works. Ephesians 2:8-9. Also, since you, like Mormons, like James 2, read James 2:10.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 the above quote is from the Bible. Your second point is a straw man. NO ONE says you have be doing works perfectly 100% of the time. Yes, salvation is of Grace. The question is, "what is our response?" And "once saved always saved?" To the latter, if we are not (and I maintain we are NOT), then there is something we must do to remain saved.
westsidewarrior1972 1 month ago
@westsidewarrior1972 "NO ONE says you have be doing works perfectly 100% of the time." God does, yes? James 2 :10 very clearly states that if you, I, or any body tries keeping the whole law, yet fails in one point, we are guilty of all of them. This means NO ONE can keep the law in order to please God, only Jesus Christ did that. Jesus never sinned, correct? "then there is something we must do to remain saved." Ephesians 2: 8-9. If it's of works, then it's no longer grace.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 James 2;14 "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does NOT have works? Can faith (alone) save him? Or 2; 17 "Thus also Faith by itself (alone) is DEAD" or 2;24 "you see then that a man is justified by WORKS and NOT by FAITH ALONE" If you don't like it , take it up wth ST. James. your Catholic friend
CSSDINC 1 month ago
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@CSSDINC "I don't quite understand you" Let me try to help you out then. The principal of sovereign grace involves a total rejection of human effort to win or earn the favor of God. "Grace" means that God does it all, without any help from man. Salvation must come as a free, totally undeserved gift, since man has forfeited all claim to self-justifying merit. "By grace you have been saved (past tense), through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God, not of works.....
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@CSSDINC so that no one can boast"(Eph. 2:8-9) "He saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His mercy" (Titus 3:5). This means that nothing we can offer God in the way of character, service, or deeds of righteousness contributes any basis whatever for our salvation. Those who are truly saved receive Christ Himself (John 1:12) as Savior and Lord (Rom. 10:9-10); and from the dynamic of His indwelling Spirit (Col. 3:1-4), we will produce works of righteousness...
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr I respectfuly say to you that yu continously cite Eph2;8-9 but each time you cite it, you leave out th part that draws it all together"vrs 10" When read together,it is the Catholic teaching. When abridged(vrs 8&9 with out 10)it seems to b very popular I think it could be said to be the protestant understanding (when read in incompleteness (6) The exact same can be said about Titus3;5-If you wood simply read 3;1-4 & then includ vrs 5 it comes alive and is Catholic teaching.
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@TheJpgr I respectfuly say to you that yu continously cite Eph2;8-9 but each time you cite it, you leave out th part that draws it all together"vrs 10" When read together,it is the Catholic teaching. When abridged(vrs 8&9 with out 10)it seems to b very popular I think it could be said to be the protestant understanding (when read in incompleteness (6) The exact same can be said about Titus3;5-If you wood simply read 3;1-4 & then includ vrs 5 it comes alive and is Catholic teaching.
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@CSSDINC And I state to you that the scriptures in context very clearly states that salvation cannot be earned, it is a gift. Salvation can't be kept by works for works are an outgrowth of salvation, not in order TO get saved, but because one IS saved. So I will stand before God, clothed in the righteousness of Christ and Him ALONE, while you will stand before Him with grace, plus a whole laundry list of things YOU did meritoriously. Those works will mean nothing.
TheJpgr1958 4 weeks ago
@CSSDINC and goodness that will manifest the life of Christ within us. ("As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" [James 2:26]). So again, man contributes nothing substantive toward his salvation-if he is saved at all. Even saving faith is the gift of God, and God receives all the glory for the sinner's conversion (Eph. 2:9). All the unsaved man can do is face up to the claims of Christ ans assent to the proffer of His grace. This response of assent bears no..
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@CSSDINC resemblance to a work of merit; it is simply the act of a beggar who reaches up his empty hand to receive a gift from his benefactor. Such an act has nothing to do with merit; it does nothing to make the beggar more deserving than another beggar who keeps his hands folded in his lap. The gift is bestowed out of pity and grace. "God, having out of His mere good pleasure, from all eternity, elected some to everlasting life, did enter into a covenant of grace, to deliver them out of...
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@CSSDINC the estate of sin and misery, and to bring them into a state of salvation by a Redeemer; John 17:6; Eph. 1:4; Titus 1:2; 3:7. This statement can hardly be improved on as a classic formulation of the doctrine of grace. So again, any works one does after being saved is an OUTGROWTH of salvation, not to GET salvation. No meritorious works, no priests, popes, alms, etc, are needed. "If you don't like it , take it up wth ST. James." I have no problems with the book of James.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism) sure did though, I don't know if your a fan of his but He wanted to throw the book of James out of "His" bible. He called it an "epistle of straw). Some of the other reformers convinced him not to. But his attitude remained the same. Can you imagine what the world would (rightly) say if the catholic church or some Pope had thrown books out of the bible? I love the Book of James and have no problem with it, I .....
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 dot have the slightest clue why you think I (a Catholic) would have a problem with any book in the bible for the fact of history shows that the new testament was written by Catholics, was compiled by Catholics and was preserved to this day for and by Catholics (and everyone else) Read your encyclopedia if you do not already know that. You seem like a well educated person, do you REALLY believe in your heart that the Church that Jesus himself founded and has remained...
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@TheJpgr ....unified for 2 thousand years(despite the many sinners who have comprised it) teaches that ones works get him saved? If you do your wrong. We are savd by Grace thrugh faith Eph2;8 NOT BY WORKS Eph 2;9 for good works Eph2;10 THAT IS THE CATHULIC TEACHING PLAIN AND SIMPLE remember; if the Catholic church was so bad and didn't believe what their own book said- they could have changed it as much as they desired, there were no other Christians they were free to make it say..
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@CSSDINC "We are savd by Grace thrugh faith Eph2;8 NOT BY WORKS Eph 2;9 for good works Eph2;10" Without getting into the other items you brought up, I can agree with you, but the problem with what you state is that you don't put the word "alone" into the equation. Even though the word does not appear in the text, that is implied. If all of our works are as dirty rags, then salvation HAS to be by faith alone. Again, the "good works" Eph. 2:10 speaks of, can't save you, nor can if keep you saved.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 You did'nt watch that video (John Martignoni is a dead body really a body) did you? I might like to point out to you that the ONLY place in scripture that Faith and alone are found together- it is preceded by " You see then that a man is justified by works, and NOT by faith alone. What kind of gymnastics can a person come up with to try say James and God that they did'nt know what they were talking about. This is the perfect example of traditions of men which nullify..
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 ..... the CLEAR word of God. For the sake of our dear Lord Jesus christ can't you see all of the flaws in the theology you follow. Not only that but the whole theological system u follow is less than five hundred years old. It is NOT what the early christians believed not even close. Please be open minded about the Catholic faith, it(JESUS) is HIS body & you won't even listen to it. Did some Catholic offend you, I don't understand why your heart is so hard. I was.....
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 ....You see I was once some-what anti Catholic and my wife was raised as a protestant. But we listened to the facts, to the arguments on both sides we studied history and most importantly we studied the Bible and we chose to follow the only church that Jesus founded,plain and simple. We could have remained protestant and had more excitng and entertaining services to attend ,but we chose simple TRUTH. on sunday we worship God in spirit and in truth. We go to mass to..
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 .....worship God and not neccesarily to have fun. For the mass was prophesid long ago by the prophet Malachi 1;11 "FOR FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN EVEN TO ITS GOING DOWN, MY NAME SHALL BE GREAT AMONG THE GENTILES; IN EVERY PLACE INCENSE SHALL BE OFFERED TO MY NAME, AND A PURE OFFERING; FOR MY NAME SHALL BE GREAT AMONG THE NATIONS", SAYS THE LORD OF HOSTS. If You don't see the mass being prophesied let me know and I will break it down for you. And if somehow you......
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 ....disagree, please tell me exactly what you think the Prophet was prophesying? Peace and Blessings
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC The works spoken of is an OUT GROWTH of the fact that one IS ALREADY SAVED BY FAITH. So this is once again the great divide between Catholics and Evangelicals, and it will always be so. Any works I do is for HIS glory and honor, not in order for me to get or remained saved. As for you stating that the Bible is a Roman Catholic book or something to that effect, Rome had nothing to do with the Old Testament, which was in place LONG before Rome. So that for me shoots down this claim.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 .......Jesus found. And please don't try to say it was an invisible church. There is just to much in the bible that proves the church is to be very visible. I am curious , and will you be able corrobarate that in any way?
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 I stated that the Catholic Church wrote and decided (in council) just like the council in Jerusalem( acts) what books would be scripture and what books would not be scripture. And the Catholic Church preservered the Bible. God's instrument on earth( "the Pillar and Foundation of the truth" 1st Tim 3;15) so that guys like you and me could share in the joy.OK a little debate is alright.
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC And as for your statements about the Roman Catholic church being unified for two thousand years, and that Protestants have some of the truth, etc, well, all groups who suffer from what I like to the "The True Church Syndrome," state this. RC, Mormons Jehovah Witnesses, Moonies, Muslims, Oneness, plus others, all suffer from it. They want to claim this "Specialness" to themselves, that God/Jesus appeared to their leader or prophet personally and instructed them, and so on and so on.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 1 VERY important distinction Only the Catholic Church was Founded By Jesus None others and I mean zero and this can not be denied. All OTHER "churches" were founded by a man (not God) there fore they are all man made. I respectfully as possible have to say that I think your in a Your in serious denial. HISTORY BEARS IT OUT WITHOUT QUESTION. If you continue to claim that the Catholic church was not founded by Jesus himself than please explain what church exactly did
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC Rome is just another voice in the vast wilderness of voices who all claim the exact same things. So there is nothing unique in what you state.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC I did forget to add the following...The Roman Catholic church, when you boil down to it, does not have good news, for a RC can't say for certain that they are saved. They have to wait when they die to know if they have done enough of those good works so they can go into God's presence and into Heaven. Since Scripture states that NO WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS will do one any good in the end, I HAVE salvation NOW. That my friend is good news. It's not arrogent nor wrong to state this.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 If I believed what you believe, I too would be against the Catholic Church too!!! But as I said before... I have been on both sides- I KNOW what evangelicals believe, and I DO NOT misrepresent what they believe. You My friend, may know evengelicalism but you REALLY, REALLY REALLY do not know Catholism. You repeat every common objection (which is almost always a misrepresentation of what I and 6 billion other belivers believe. I really hope you get what I am saying.....
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr LITERALLY every time you sa "what" the Catholic Church teches u are wrong. I KNOW the faith, for I studied them both long and hard becoming Catholic. If you whet to Jerusalem to do a story about Israel, would you only interview the palestinians? How much unbiased information do you think you would get from them? It sounds ludacriss, But that is exactly what you have done, and somehow that seems to be ok? Have you ever read a book written by a Catholic (besides the bible)?..
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC ....just poking a little fun there!
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr ....anything they wanted it to say....and yet it was preserved and hand copied so many times over and over and over again since originally written. With all of the different Priest and Monks who faithfully copied such a long set of writings not even one person changed a single thing. That is simply miraculous since everyone of them was a sinner just like you and me.
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@TheJpgr Ther is a great litle utub video that delves into Jam2;19-26 any one reading this should look at this short vdeo just search using this -"John Martignoni is a dead body really a body" John deftly opens up th scripture verses where James uses the analogy of "Body and Spirit" & Faith and Works" Caution you will b entering the no spin Catholic zone. All joking aside I think you will begin to understand What James means when He compares "the body to faith" and "spirit to works"
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@CSSDINC I look at the entire teaching on any given subject, read all the passages relating to the particular topic in the context in which the authors wrote, and then come to the correct rendering of the passages. It takes time, and a lot of reading and studying, but this is what we are called to do, to rightly divide the Word of God. And because of this, there is and always will be, a wide chasm between the Roman Catholic Church and Evangelicals.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 2nd peter 1;20-21 "knowing this first, that no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophesy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2nd Peter3;16 ....as also in all his(Pauls) epistles speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the scriptures. You therefore..
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 .......beloved, since you know these things beforehand, beware lest you also fall from steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked: BUT GROW IN THE GRACE and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.You see the problem is EGO. Evangelicals believe that without the leaders JESUS GAVE US-BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS they themselves can "rightly divide the word of God" and create out of nothing(something only God can doBTW)their own religious creation...
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 And then they have the gall to say that we are the ones who are wrong. If this is so, Why has the high Priestly prayer of JesusJn 17;20-24 come to pass with reference to the One Holy Catholic Church remaining perfectly one for 2 thousand years, and yet your protesting church split and splits and split because of dissentions upon dissentions. Jesus' prayer is completely inefectual in the protestant churches. Christ unites ,Diablo divides, and sadly that has been the....
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 ..... case since Martn Luther (see Korahs rebellion) "broke from the true communion of believers(I don't mean to say that there is no truth in the protestant churches, just that it is limited to how much any particular church holds of Catholic Doctrine) Like the home the foolish builder built on sand it collapses constantly yet the church built BY JESUS is built upon rock and does not collapse. Now everyone who hears these sayings should take head. Peace and Blessings
CSSDINC 4 weeks ago
@CSSDINC I highly encourage you to study this and other topics, apart from what Rome tells you. Mary, Saints, Popes, can't hear your prayers, nor can they do anything for you. Only Christ and belief on Him ALONE is what will matter in the end. Just like the thief on the cross. Just like the woman who went to the house where Jesus was dining with people, and upon entering the home, ignored everyone and ran to HIM, and proceeded to wash His feet with her tears and dry them with her hair.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@CSSDINC I do hope this helps you. If not, then all I can do pray that God will open your eyes to this great free gift from God, and that you, I, nor any one will stand before Him on judgement day and give a laundry list of things that we did in order to get saved or to remain saved. All glory goes to Him and Him alone.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@westsidewarrior1972 Don't feel bad, Mormons, Roman Catholics, Jehovah Witness, Moonies, Oneness, plus other groups who all claim to be the true church, don't like very much Ephesians 2:8-9, people in these groups hardly if ever quote it, nor do they like James 2:10.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 Wow...... I am Catholic and love scripture. I particularly wish folks like you new more than just a couple of favorite verses to throw out there you REALLY must read the very next verse Eph; 2;10 PLEASE do it. I hope you can admit that these really aren't verses that a protestant should be trying to beat a catholic with, UNLESS of course you ONLY quote the first two verses which is incomplete. Now .... is that honest, I'll bet you did'nt realize that vrs 10 reverse
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@CSSDINC I bet you didn't realize that verse ten (Eph 2;8-10) completely reverses the point protestants try to make using vrs's 8 and 9 alone. Thats ok if thats the case just don't do it any more. A friend in Jesus
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 I am sorry for you that you don't believe Jesus started a church to go out into the world and convert it. Yes there is one true church & yes there is no limit 2 the counterfitters whether it be groups or individuals every where who think they know better than the oldest institution on earth: the Catholic church- only by Gods Grace when you think about all the sinners in it. Don't be a denier, the truth is so beautiful more so than a stainedglass window w/th corect view
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
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@CSSDINC The first issue I want to respond to is this statement you made: "You see I was once some-what anti Catholic." You do realize that when ever a person utilizes the phrase "anti" into a conversation, it's meant to be nothing more than a ugly pejorative, usually slapped on anyone who questions or disagrees with the teachings of one's faith, in this instance, the RC faith, and implies that the perceived critic (me) is somehow "against" (anti) Roman Catholics (as individuals).
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC You do realize also that when you as a RC flippantly throw down the hate or"anti" card, you run the risk of bearing false witness. Have you ever, let's say, in dealing with Mormons, which I'm sure you have doctrinal disagreements with, been called an "anti-Mormon" by them? Do you like that sort of name calling? Are YOU motivated by hate? I don't believe you are, and may I say neither am I towards you as a RC. Just remember that using that kind of language, is often a means of....
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC avoiding meaningful dialog, critical thinking, and most important self-examination. So for future dialoging, I would suggest you to not play that card, for it makes you look silly. As for the remainder of your comments, you did state quite a lot which had really nothing to do with the topic at hand. You also stated that you have studies both sides of this issue, so no matter what I or any one else responds to you with, you have come to the conclusion that I am wrong.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC With that said, I will try to get back to the topic at hand, and let me remind you of the very important issue at stake for both Protestants and RC: peace with God. A gospel that does not bring peace is not a gospel at all. The message that the RC church brings to the table, a message of works-righteousness, that calls someone to strive to obtain peace with God through various ceremonies or duties, could not be logically be called a gospel of peace nor of good news.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC Such a message brings nothing but turmoil to the hearts of of tose who struggle to meet the impossible standards built into such systems. If one does not have peace with the Creator, all else in meaningless. That is why the good news of Scriptures such as Romans 5:1 "Therefore, having been (past tense) justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" puts me at complete peace with God. There is nothing I can do to have this, it's a gift of God.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC It has nothing to do with me, nor is it of my own making. It depends totally on the work of another, the perfect Peacemaker, the Savior, Jesus Christ. and Him alone. You asked if I have read other books besides the Bible. I have, and the following quote I believe puts the kind of peace, or lack of peace with God, you have in a nutshell: "The reason for the uncertainty of the state of grace lies in this, that without a special revelation nobody can with certainty of faith....
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC know whether or not he has fulfilled all the conditions that are necessary for achieving justification." Lugwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, pg. 262. This is the fundamental important issue that will always separate RC and Protestants, and nothing less that peace with God Himself is at stake. Can you as a RC "fulfill" conditions so as to "achieve" justification, or has Christ fulfilled all those conditions for His people, so that He can be described as the one who....
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC "will save His people from their sins"? (Matthew 1:21). I can go on, but I have made my point. So again, and I know I'm repeating myself, I will stand on the day of judgement and bow my head in humility and say to Him that there is nothing that I did or could do to gain salvation, it was a free gift from Him. You on the other hand will give a laundry list of things you did meritoriously. You will have something to boast about, I will not.
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC There is something else I would like for to think about. You as a RC have stated to me that Rome has this God-given unity, found in "tradition," and a living head who can interpret doctrine and safeguard the faith. The RC church is against abortion, so I believe you would be as well, correct? If what the RC church states is true, then why did Notre Dame, a RC institution, allow Obama, the most pro-abortion President ever elected into office, to speak at their graduating class in 2009?
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC Why didn't your so-called leader the pope, call up the priest/priests who runs Notre Dame and tell him/them to rescind the invitation to the most pro-abortion American President of all time? What good then is it to have an infallible leader who dosen't lead? As the "shepherd" of the flock, he surely knew a ravenous wolf was going to be let loose in the flock of students at Notre Dame, did he not? As a RC, does this not concern you, and if you were a RC at the time, did you speak out?
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@CSSDINC Maybe that's why the sedevacantist movement is growing. Have you looked into it?
TheJpgr1958 3 weeks ago
@TheJpgr1958 You bring up resonable concerns to which I will do my best to answer. But for now I have an enormous work load.I will respond as I can find the time. I am not going anywhere, I do want to continue this conversation, but I am a business owner and (fortunately) I have just landed a very large job. Please be patient, I know you have a good heart and I I agree with much of what said. I will be back. Peace and Blessings, Mike
CSSDINC 3 weeks ago
@westsidewarrior1972 "then there is something we must do to remain saved." How did the thief on the cross accomplish this? What works did he do in order to remain saved?
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 It was a little late for the thief to do much whilst pinned to the cross, are you seriuos? your statement about the thief on the cross is nothing more than 'cliche of men" I don't think that you folks that like to ask this question even think about what you sayiing, it just sounds good. Most of the verses in the new testament concerning salvation are highly dependant on what a person did or did not do in this life. see James 2;14-24
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@CSSDINC "your statement about the thief on the cross is nothing more than 'cliche of men" Umm, no, not really. The passage is just demonstrating to us that faith can work any where, no need for baptism, a priest, last rites, the pope, nothing but faith and trust in Christ ALONE! "Most of the verses in the new testament concerning salvation are highly dependant on what a person did or did not do in this life." The thief was saved by trusting in Christ alone. He did no works my friend.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 Your right, If any non believer becoms a believer just bfore he dies, he is saved like the thief on the cross no one is saying that at that point anything other than belief is necesary. I think we can agree on this but that is exceptional. The norm is belief followed by a life of good works(love for God & others). See Matt 7;21,19;16-17,Jn14;21, Rom 2;2-8,Gal5;4-6,Eph2;8-10,Phil2;12-13, Jam2;14-24 Every single verse given here is EXACTLY what the Catholic church teaches
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@CSSDINC If the thief did any kinds of work, please tell us what they were. If you can't and you know you can't, then you have nothing to say. And I see you didn't comment on James 2:10. If you were honest, you would state that you fail at keeping the laws of God, just like everyone else, so salvation has to be of grace. "I am Catholic and love scripture." No, just particular verses that your priest tells you to read. Oh by the way, since the Catholic church has only officially translated...
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 It's kinda hard for a man pinned to a cross to do much of anything, belief is SUFFICIENT. If you think that Catholics deny that deathbed conversions save, than I really do understand why you so strongly dislike what you think about her. James 2;10 Of course I fail and sin,agreed. I really don't see a problem with your position for we are saved by Grace through faith working itself out in love, for faith without love is nothing" 1 Cor 13;2
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 I bet you didn't know that for the folks who attend daily mass hear the entire bible read aloud every three years.
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@CSSDINC about 7 verses, then any other verse you cite us are of your own private interpretation. And as for Eph. 2, look at the context my friend, which you seem to not care too much about. Not that it doesn't surprise me. Re-read verse 8 closely. It states "For by grace you HAVE BEEN saved (past tense), through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." So those who have believed on Christ are already saved. So the "works" spoken of which are in verse 10, does not save us.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@CSSDINC So far from your statement that Eph 2:8-10 "completely reverses the point protestants try to make using vrs's 8 and 9 alone," it reemphasizes that our works are useless to God's plan. When I stand before Christ on Judgment day, I will bow my head in humility and state that nothing I could ever do is good enough for Him. Just His shed blood. You on the other hand will give Him a whole list of things that you did, and His response will be "Fascinating," sarcastically of course.
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 a little patience and love in you tone might convey to me that you are a believer! I COMPLETELY agree with verses 8and 9. 8="for by grace you have been saved" YES GODS DOING. "through faith" AMEN. "and not of yourselves" WE DON"T CAUSE IT " it is a gift of God" THIS ISTHE CATHOLIC UNDERSTANDING. stop saying otherwise you now no better continued
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 this is from "continued" Eph 2;9 "not of works lest anyone should boast" very straight forward- No amount of works can earn God's gift of grace it is a free GIFT I think we agree. Vrs10 "For we are his workmanship" ( uh-oh its seems God works to,it must not be all that bad of a thing). "created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS" I'm not going to instruct you of what you believe like you seem to do, but if I was created for good works than by gosh I'm going to do them
CSSDINC 1 month ago
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@CSSDINC So if this is what you are planning to do, then as you stated to me: "if thats the case just don't do it any more." I would advise you to adhere to your own statement. "A friend in Jesus" Are you really?
TheJpgr1958 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 I don't quite understand you
CSSDINC 1 month ago
@TheJpgr1958 Am I to understand you in saying that when one believes(has faith) and does nothing good for God and his fellow man, that he is justified? The exceptional death bed conversions of course are different for obvious reasons.
CSSDINC 1 month ago
I have a problem when I see someone else has the experience of feeling the warmth and love of the spirit of God, but who does not have the same faith as me. It is because of my insecurity. But I still take the time to acknowledge their warmth. Book shelve my temporary doubt and continue to believe that that warmth is important, tangible and has shown me small miracles in the best.
rsheppard321 2 months ago
Are you a better person for disbelieving in the mormon church more importantly are you a better person for arguing against it? I never feel closer to God when I belittle or simplify something that gives other people comfort and the spirit. Maybe we should just focus on the beam in our own eye for awhile. Why don't we argue against our lesser selves? Why am I not a better person? Is it I who is a betrayer of christ's principle of love?
rsheppard321 2 months ago
Hmmm. This is not accurate. Catholics do not believe that one is saved merely by being confirmed. The Catholic Church teaches that one is saved by cooperating with the grace given to us from God through Christ's death and resurrection. The Reformers had a slightly different perspective, but if the Catholics and Orthodox are wrong about salvation, then most Christians historically and now are mistaken. If this is true, does this not impugn the guiding of the HS?
bayreuth79 2 months ago
The Catholic Church is actually the merging of Christianity with ancient Babylonian paganism. Note that many Catholics make reference to St. Andrew, or St. Bartholomew, etc. These many saints are still invoked in the Catholic Church, and were used by the Pagans even before Christ's birth. Nowhere within the KJV are Christians instructed to pray to Mary.
terrafirma91 2 months ago
No, the Catholic Church does NOT teach a "works based" salvation Gospel. There is NO "companion book" to the BIBLE. You guys need to go change your "holy underwear" and get your facts straight..like I do when you creeps come to the door. Why weren't black people allowed into your "church" until a generation ago? Your religion is a CULT.
bheadh 3 months ago 4
@bheadh I'm a convert to the LDS church and we believe the Book of Mormon to be another testament of Jesus Christ. The LDS church will bring you closer to Jesus Christ and the Bible than any othe church. I know there are many things written about Mormons that are taken out of context, distorted, and just plain false. I read all this stuff over 30 years ago when I was first investigating the Church! I took the time to learn the truth. I can't imagine being a member of any other church.
cindybin2001 2 months ago
@bheadh Also, if you talked to official LDS missionaries or people in the LDS church, you would understand about black people and the church. Do some investigating! I did! Talk to other blacks in the LDS church, they will help explain it to you. Hope that helps.
cindybin2001 2 months ago
@cindybin2001 3 ladies for your cult (1 being black) came to my door. After exposing the black lady because of your refusal to allow blacks into mormonism until 1977,...it hit a nerve with her and the other two "missionaries" tried to convince her differently. She walked away from them @ my doorstep. 1 lady followed her and the other stood there with me calling me names and insulting me for making me lose 1 of their "converts". It states in the Bible that there is NO "companion book" to it.
bheadh 2 months ago
@bheadh See? Now you are just proving that you don't understand what the LDS church is all about. Blacks have ALWAYS been allowed in the Mormon church. Please take the time to learn the truth. As I have said, I'm a convert to the LDS church and I know there are many things written about Mormons that are distorted and just plain false. I read all this stuff over 30 years ago when I was first investigating! I took the time to learn the truth. I wish others would as well.
cindybin2001 2 months ago
@cindybin2001 You mentioned in a previous comment box to talk to Mormon missionaries concerning blacks. Well I had 2 Missionaries at my home the other day, and I asked them this question. It's off topic, not about blacks, but this. The Mormon church teaches that the Bible is the word of God, in so far as it is translated correctly. I asked these 2 Mormons to please provide for me the passages from both Old/New Testament that are not correctly translated, the grammatical reason/s....
TheJpgr1958 2 months ago
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@TheJpgr1958 Well how could they provide the passages that aren't translated correctly? We don't know which ones, because we weren't there all those years ago! Anyway, it is good to have additional scripture and latter-day revelation that helps shed light on the more difficult-to-understand passages in the Bible. It really does help make sense of it all. Also, read A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards. It helps explain the doctrines of the church and misunderstood scriptures.
cindybin2001 2 months ago
@cindybin2001 why they are not translated correctly, and the to provide the correct translation. Needless to say, they were both of no help, because they couldn't answer me. Can you please provide us with the information?
TheJpgr1958 2 months ago
Remarkable arrogance. The Protestant understanding of salvation was unknown until the sixteenth or seventeenth century, so we are supposed to believe that the majority of Christians are damned because they were unaware of this teaching?! And I suppose that is more sensible that Mormonism?! I'm not a Mormon, but this idea that only certain Protestant Christians will be saved is a NEGATION of God's love. Period.
bayreuth79 5 months ago
that is not cool to tell people that the Catholic Church's faith will not save people who are you to tell people that, i think that you are the one that needs to be saved, that is against the law to judge people based on their faith, and personally i think that the catholic church is fine! I am a catholic, how dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @#$%&*^(&
2007seelen 6 months ago
@2007seelen But it is true that no Church or building named wateva can save any1 and this is biblical and we should all be thankful that some1 dares to tell it 2us and shows it with scriptural verses, the problem i see is we are so much accustumed to a religion or faith and tradition to really seek the truth in scriptures, we all have a Bible at home lets read it, there is so much information on the web and this channel to enlighten us all, we could have been misled. :)
7wiiskate 5 months ago
What a clown wow he just bashes on the LDS Faith that is NOT Christ Like at all. This guy is a big fraud. He never had a testimony when a was a member of the LDS Faith. Find out for your self if it is true I did and am a faithfull member.
nateariotti 7 months ago
@nateariotti so we must trust ur word over someone elses hmm,why is it common for lds 2scream out the ¨that is not christ like¨ statement, is there one single person Christ-like in the world¿?¿ Please leave that alone its so pathetic of a defense stance.Ur interpretation and high sacred value of the word ¨testimony¨ minimizes scriptural facts as only those who agree with you have been enlighten by God, what if Monson was to declare 2morrow LDS church a fraud,oh yeah then he never had testimony
7wiiskate 6 months ago
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lilbeaveymac 3 months ago
It amazes me how respectful Shawn is to this caller (compared to mormon callers) despite the things she is saying and that he clearly disagrees with her beliefs. And what he says at the end. Interesting.
peaceliberty4all 7 months ago
Galatians 2-16 "know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. "
2-21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
Luke 7-50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
roxfoot 7 months ago
RC. Douay-Rheims James 2: 21 - 24 (Faith is dead without works).
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?
[23] And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
[24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
Food for Thought
54v115 8 months ago
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@54v115
Galatians 2-16 "know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. "2-21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”Luke 7-50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
roxfoot 7 months ago
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54v115 8 months ago
It is false that the Catholic Church teaches a works based salvation. The Catholic Church teaches that intiial salvation is by faith, and that salvation is worked out through faith and works. Its all in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
redbaron998 8 months ago
Strange that a fringe non-Christian cult would have the nerve to call the Roman Catholic Church the "Whore of Babylon". LOL If the Catholic Church is the "Whore of Babylon" then what is the Church of Jesus Christ* of Latter Day Saints? Her sleezy pimp in a purple suit? LOL! I don't have any great love for Catholics, but COME ON!!! This is ridiculous. It's like somebody with Down-Sydrome telling an autistic guy he's retarded. Am I supposed to laugh or cry?
gurumagoo 8 months ago
ignorance breeds contempt. One very bright shiny day the illegitimate protestant heresy will be exposed. The point of that statement is this: as the empire of Mohammad marched toward the heart if western civilization, the saving factor was europe's powerful, centric Church which propelled the might if the day to stop the Muslim onslaught. Protestants are terrifically jealous of bit Catholics and the people chosen by God, the Jews. Protestant heretics treat the worship Awesome God like the goin
swimswet 8 months ago
The Roman Church, is the modern day Sanhedrin. How many rules have to be created, and how many saints have to be murdered, before "catholics" realize this.
particle58 8 months ago
(NKJV) James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Wow, somebody needsto read the WHOLE Bible before he acts like a minister. Feel free to call the local Parish, I mean, we canonized the books of the Bible, I'm sure there's an extra copy laying around somewhere. SMH
Mjlopez1981 8 months ago
This man would make a great catholic priest and speak very well for the love of Christ. He is confused on Mary and the faith. "All generations will call me blessed" That really means something. Medjugorje.
frederickgraff 9 months ago
I think this man would make a great catholic priest. He speaks of the Gosple wonderfully! I do mean that and he does a great job!
zarahgraff 9 months ago
i m catholic and the church doesnt save you! oh lord
Cryssie1993 9 months ago
Titus 3:14
And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
Gee, that sounds like the Catechism plucked it straight out of scripture
martlut 9 months ago
Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):
Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum, SubSection 2: “If faith is not expressed in works, it is dead (cf. Jas 2:14-16) and cannot bear fruit unto eternal life.
martlut 9 months ago
The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by God’s grace through our faith. The Catholic Church teaches that we cannot be saved by our works. But, then, this has been shown to you many times before, and you prefer to wallow in untruth. Works cannot save anyone
martlut 9 months ago
It started with the BOM? Dude my life as a Protestant & as a Born-Again Protestant were both built with borrowed materials from the Roman Catholic Church as you do today; borrowed doctrines. All Protestants hate the Catholic Church (study King Henry 5th. & Pope Clement era) so they interpret the Bible pointing their fingers to the Catholic as the whore of Babylon & many other interpretations..Mormonisms was never around at the time. Stop spreading these lies
leSavaii 10 months ago
Catholics are not whores of Babylon. Catholics are saved because it is 2000 years old, it does everything the first christians did and it was started by Jesus Christ and his apostles. Catholics have God and Jesus Christ. We are baptised in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. We are the only church that does it right. WE are saved by the GRACE OF GOD!. We don't judge other churches, we respect all christianity. Only God has the right to judge, we people don't.
joannelarcher 10 months ago
Many Catholics don't understand their faith. The Church teaches that we are saved by the grace of God.
yankeesuperstar 10 months ago
If Catholic church is the whore of Babylon? Then what on earth does that make Joseph!?
Paedophilic, sexual devient, rapist, wrong one?
crazy456eyes 11 months ago
The abominable church mentioned in the Book of Mormon has been interpreted in 2 common ways. 1: Catholic Church. 2: all churches that oppose Jesus Christ church is the one abominable church.
Yes, what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is part of the ONE church, the abominable church. There are two churches on the earth: the abominable church and then there's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Christ's church
majinish 11 months ago
Asking "how are you saved" implies that you have adopted a belief system in which you need to be saved in the first place. It's like asking you "how do you escape the cycle of birth and rebirth?" Don't you see how that question is exploitative from the start?
rollypollyjoe 11 months ago
Catholics started christianity! Then the prodestants broke off and changed a few things in the bible to make it work for them. the catholic church is the only apostolic church in all of christianity. and prodestants definiton of saved is wrong. when you are saved in catholisism you have passed the last judgement and can pass into heaven. you cannot be saved while still on earth or you could just run around commiting sins and get away with it. Get you facts right.
nash1328 11 months ago
@nash1328 wrong the catholic church was founded in the 4th century it is one of misconception that says otherwise. there are some things in Catholicism and Christianity that are the same, but Catholicism diverged from 1st century teachings when it was formed. you don't understand catholic teaching or protestant teaching, there is only god and his son Jesus Christ in Christianity the worship of other peoples even if by intersession is a sin. this is a fact about biblical Christianity
thuggie1 11 months ago
@nash1328 Bullcrap. Jesus Christ is the start of Christianity.
majinish 11 months ago
@nash1328 Saying that "Catholics started Christianity" is a kin to saying I Love Lucy started TV. They were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Read the Epistles to learn what the early Christian Church was like.
adam95y 11 months ago
Awesome point Shawn!!!!!!!
tonydegn 1 year ago
Their are no saints huh. so the people that don't turn into dust are what. honestly, I detest the guts of people like him who think their religion is way better then the one we practice. the funny thing is he didn't say how mormons are saved. with money!! let me say something loud and clear, believe in what you want people, but to this blonde ass I wanna tell you this. YOU WONT BUY GOD WITH MONEY!!
boisestatewon1 1 year ago
I think the Fellow really loses it. Firts he bashes the mormons in his typical arogant way for a statement made by Mckonkie then bashes a lady who is Catholic. This man loves bashing yet criticises others for such acts.
llewellleo 1 year ago
@llewellleo he didnt bash her,he bashed her religion ,big difference
lilbeaveymac 3 months ago
religion means rituals , rituals are a form of discipline , the rosary and the 12 steps for alcoholic's work the same way , some people say you must not understand mary's divinity to know jesus is the christ ! people will join to belong and are blind by vanity , im a roman catholic by religion , it helps me understand history of god , faith and the humbleness is demanded of me by christ ! people can take religion to romanticism . i dont go to church for sake of others , i go for christ
housetaboo 1 year ago
poor marry dont know her ass from a hole in the ground !
housetaboo 1 year ago
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That is odd, I believe Jesus Christ said "except a man be born of water and spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom Of Heaven" Baptism is a required ordinance of salvation. Would he consider this a buffer between man and God??
Baptism of Water and of the Spirit. Oh yeah and Christ also said keep my commandments. So whoever this guy is , he has not read the bible or does not understand the Masters teachings.
loki1830 1 year ago
The only place in the Bible where the words "faith alone" are written, the words "Not by" are right in front of it. There is onle one Truth. Either you are right or we (Catholcis) are right. We can't both be right. Investigate where the Bible you read came from. Return to the one True Faith established directly by Jesus to his Apostle Peter. Don't take my word for it. Take Jesus' word for it.
govav8er 1 year ago
ummm God called the catholic church the whore of babylon. its in the book of revelations you know.I am mormon. take that! I lov u all!
artislife271 1 year ago
This is insanity, protestantism can never be the way into the Kingdom. You need an authorized priesthood to conduct the ordinances of Salvation. There are only two churches that have the potential to have such a priesthood. Mormonism (the priesthood restored from apostasy) and Catholicism ( the priesthood that's been around since Christ's time).
Protestants are nothing more than Catholic apostates so they have no claim to the authority to act on behalf of God.
ViCe1986 1 year ago
The Catholic Church was referred to the Whore of Babylon by Protestants in England. As they came to America they bought their ideas with them. When Irish Catholics showed up in Joseph Smiths back yard to build the Erie Canal those words started to appear in print all over again. Just Google the words Whore of Babylon and anti-catholic or anti-catholic and Erie Canal.
MrKrl777 1 year ago
Very annoying at 1:13 he starts in with his very evangelical protestant views.
Mary needs to be catechised in the RCIA.
1. you are not saved by faith alone apart from works, read James 2
2. yes the Catholic institution is going to do something for you, it will sanctify you with the sacraments as commanded by Christ in particular Baptism, and the Eucharist, etc..
3. Yes it is by grace, but only as a begining point into salvation.
biblical Christianity is not evangelical Protestantism!
templar2980 1 year ago
@templar2980
Evangelical Protestantism is done for fame and money, not for Christ and is the polar opposite of Biblical Christianity. Many Evangelists will stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement declaring there massive works and how much they did in the name of Christ and he will say " I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23)
ViCe1986 1 year ago
@ViCe1986 thats an interesting idea, because Protestantism doesn't really do much with works, for example: I am not baptised, according to Protestantism I don't have to be, Protestants don't count prayers, ect. Im not saying that Catholics aren't Christian or that the oppisit of what you said would happen, I just thought it was a little odd. also, in my church, the people vote on how to spend the money, and the Pope is way more famous than pastors? Pastors are usually poor...
Paulismyhero777 1 year ago
@Paulismyhero777
According to Christ you must be born of water and of spirit (baptism and gift of the holy ghost) to enter heaven. This is called being born again, if anyone teaches you differently than what Christ taught then they are wrong not Christ.
ViCe1986 1 year ago
@ViCe1986 You do have to be born again, but of the the spirit. Spirit gives birth to spirit. Anyway, I will get baptised at some point, but I want it to be at a certain time. I know my stepmom hasn't been, shes waiting to get baptised by my dad
Paulismyhero777 1 year ago
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@Paulismyhero777
That's not what Christ said he said "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)
Peter tells us that we must be born of water before we can receive the Holy Ghost, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." (Acts 10:47-48)
ViCe1986 1 year ago
"They throw in the Eucharist..." ??? I'll let the Lord himself answer that one:
"... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink". Check out John 6:51-58.
RepublicofMAC 1 year ago
"Mary", the caller is wrong in her beliefs about Confirmation. Catholics are saved thru Baptism. Many Catholics I know have a personal relationship with Jesus, All of the Catholic tenets are rooted in the bible, and can be pointed out.
If you ever want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, sit down with a Priest and ask him to explain it; we, unlike the Mormons, will not try to convert you to our way of thinking.
IsagenixDoc 1 year ago
The caller is mistaken, this isn't what Catholics believe...we believe the same as Protestants, that by GOD'S GRACE we are saved!! Unfortunately many fall into the trap of legalism....
TsarIvanIV 1 year ago
The Catholic church may not be perfect but they did get somethings right. Unfortunately on the flip side Christians such as the host of this show threw the baby out with the bedwater. They turned to a Calvinistic/Zwinglistic view of Baptism and Communion that extracts some of the fundamental truths out of Christianity.
Either way you look at it, if it wasn't for the Catholics we wouldn't be here.
Allante715 1 year ago
@Allante715 The Holy Roman Catholic Church is perfect, because it and it alone is the mystical body of Christ on earth. History and the Bible are crystal clear on that. The individual members of the Catholic Church are imperfect and make mistakes, but the Church itself is the teaching office of the Pope and the Magesterium. The office, not the individuals themselves. The office founded by Christ himself and protected and guided by the Holy Spirit, is perfect. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85
I completely disagree. The Catholic Church ended in 1054 and has been forever split into the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. Because of the complete lack of humility the Pope decided that he was more important then every other partriarch and the schism of Christainity began. If I was to chose betweent he Orthodox or Catholic Church, the Orthodox church has stayed true to the teachings of the bible and of the Early Church fathers more so then the Catholic Church.
Allante715 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege good dont respond to me anymore,cause you have shown you cant reason with anything,all you do is insult people and their faith,and by those tactics you think it brings people to christ,and no you havent shown any truth,you just parrot the same garbage! your lord and savior shawn mccraney tells you to say.
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege so you think by calling me names give you any credibility,yeah goes to show how hypocritical you are when you call me a five year old and an idiot,what a shiny example you are for christ!
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege nope god is perfect god doesnt make mistakes,apparently? we are a christian church whether you agree with that or not it really makes no difference what you think we are,we have always been christian since the begining and always will be,call us names,slander us,hate us all you want,not gonna make one bit of difference what you think our status is!
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege oh dear because i wont give you the satisfaction or enjoyment making fun of me and building up your self-esteem,you can talk shit on me and call me all kinds of names over the internet if it makes you feel tough inside
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege cyber bullying eh?
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege nope just because we interpret differently than you doesnt mean its in contradiction,nope im not going to tell you my age just so you can get satiisfaction with it and build your self-esteem you certainly got issues lad!,yep i did say that he said that your right,but your saying that the mormon,you can attack my character all you want,it just looks really stupid and foolish on you,and yet you ask me how old i am? nope not giving you any satisfaction from it,so y uo can bully me
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege you gonna adress the issues or keep being evasive,i never said god made a mistake you said that now back up your claim that had sad that....he did say that whether you agree with that or not so ask god why he sad that not me!
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege your putting words into my mouth that i didnt say you dingbat!,nope god is right look how many churches are off the path yours included,nope god didnt make a mistake he was very plain and clear what he said,look at emperror constantine,the nicean creed,the dark ages,the crusades,and the catholic church,but really any church tath has strayed away from being the church taht it was in the ancient days,your sure a modern day pharisee if anything!
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege we didnt say that,but the lord said so take it up with him,of the many irrational things you've done!
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege yeah and i could say the same thing about you,you are acusing us of saying that ourselves,fight and argue with god whatever makes you happy
solarflare311 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege you take that one up with god have fun trying to do that,we didnt say it the lord did say it,so dont lose your faith in christ over this one .....lol
solarflare311 1 year ago
just stuipd
chaosteam53 1 year ago