@peepnklown Haven't we had this discussion before? Agreed, that there is a difference between natural born and native born. Anyone can be a US citizen.
@BloodTar Hi BT, I removed your first comment because you repeated your points in this comment. If your argument is true, then all children born to natural born citizens who are both under 21 are not natural born US citizens.
Apparently you did not understand what I wrote . . .
This only applies to children that are born to parents where only one of the
parent is a US citizen, in Baracks case only his mother was and not his father, so according to us law it applies to Obama and he is NOT a natural born citizen.
Now go do your homework and stop confusing facts with arguements.
@BloodTar Thanks for the clarification, but you're still incorrect. 14th Amendment, US Constitution, Section 1: " All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
Both of Obama's parents could have been 18 year old foreign citizens and he would still be a natural born US Citizen under our Constitution.
By formal definition, natural born describes the parents (jus sanguinis) and native born describes the place (jus soli).
What counts is what the Constitution intends. Ah Wiki, there is a specific link to the discussion between John Jay and Geo. Washington on the subject. They wanted to exclude foreigners from being Commander-in-Chief. They used the term (natural born) incorrectly, but their intent was clear and has evolved to mean both native and natural born.
1 They wanted to exclude foreigners and persons with dual loyalties.
2 The term natural-born citizen was first codified in the 1758 legal reference Law of Nations which was the foundation of the legal thinking of the founders and the US Constitution thus, points to WHERE the person was born and WHO where both his parents.
Emerich de Vattel (author of the Law of Nations) went a little further than you in his definition of a natural born citizen. He said natural born applied to place of birth and citizenry of the father.
So I know what he would think of Obama and McCain, he would've prohibited them both from being President. (I disagree with the Law of Nations on both counts.)
Thanks for the reference, it was interesting reading.
Youre welcome for the reference and I want everyone to see how civil our discussion is and should be. Just because you disagree with the foundational texts of our US Constitution does not take from the definition of natural-born citizen. If we disagree with such foundation then we need to amend the US Constitution.
In this case, I agree with those who interpret the Constitution in the "spirit" of the law, John McCain, who was born of US citizens outside the physical US, meets the qualifications to be President.
That is what I think too, but the words "Natural Born" were intended to convey the requirement that presidents of the new US be born in the new US. Times change and only a very strict constitutionalist would interpret it that way now.
absolutely false... The supreme court ruled Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857): In regard to the "natural born citizen" clause, the dissent states that it is acquired by place of birth (jus soli), not through blood or lineage (jus sanguinis):
IT doesn't mention place of birth,only that one partner is not a US citizen. This law was in place from Dec. 24,1952 til nov. 13,1986. Obama was born Aug. 04,1961. His mother was born Nov.29,1942.She died Nov. 7,1995 of ovian cancer. Barrack Obama's birth certificate lists his father as African. According to law he is holding US Senate seat illegally ( non-US citizen).
The Constitution has been in place since 1788. It left it to the States to define citizenship, until the 14th Amendment(1868) defined it this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States".
Perhaps you are thinking of a country where citizenship only passes from the father.
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona in 1909, before it was a state. He ran for president in 1964 as the nominee of the Republican Party and received 54 electoral votes.
Good question, I'm not sure, but I would suspect not. Can natural born residents of Washington DC (which is not a state and has no voting reporesentation in Congress) be President?
I think so because they were born in US soil that's it, it's part of the main country it's not? Have their own rules but still it's part of the main country since US was created progressively as a UNION.
no worries, i just couldn't resist mentioning it. favorite pre-election hobby: pestering people about ron paul because it somehow never gets old. (unlike him) and you never lose (unlike him. . .)
i did like the video though, all the more reason not to vote mcain :) (like we needed one)
It's only a reason for a strict constitutionalist to not vote for McCain. I always try to vote for somebody rather than not vote for somebody. Doesn't always work out that way, but it will this election!
Numbers can be tricky too. Darrell Huff's How To Lie with Statistics is still a classic! Real nerds keep one foot in each camp (qualitative and quantitative) and stroke their long beards because they use Occam's Razor so rarely.
It wouldn't even have occurred to anyone in the late 1700's that all births were anything but natural, I wonder why this redundant modifier was placed there to begin with.
haha, tom. i had no idea this was in the news today. (I found the NY Times article after i watched). someone is no doubt going to sue about this, and mccain will win. thomas will dissent and then his head will explode.
I would like to point out; there is a difference between natural born, native born and US citizen.
peepnklown 1 year ago
@peepnklown Haven't we had this discussion before? Agreed, that there is a difference between natural born and native born. Anyone can be a US citizen.
namlhots 1 year ago
Barack's father was not a US citizen.
Barack's mother was 18 at the time of his birth.
Barack's mother had been a US citizen for 10 years.
Barack's mother fails the test for being a US citizen for at least 5 years prior to
giving birth to Barack.
Barack's mother was not old enough for him to qualify for automatic US citizenship.
Barack's mother needed to be 21 at the time of his birth for him to have qualified as a "natural-born citizen."
16+5=21
Barack is NOT ELIGIBLE.
BloodTar 1 year ago
@BloodTar Hi BT, I removed your first comment because you repeated your points in this comment. If your argument is true, then all children born to natural born citizens who are both under 21 are not natural born US citizens.
Nice try.
namlhots 1 year ago
@namlhots
Apparently you did not understand what I wrote . . .
This only applies to children that are born to parents where only one of the
parent is a US citizen, in Baracks case only his mother was and not his father, so according to us law it applies to Obama and he is NOT a natural born citizen.
Now go do your homework and stop confusing facts with arguements.
BloodTar 1 year ago
@BloodTar Thanks for the clarification, but you're still incorrect. 14th Amendment, US Constitution, Section 1: " All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
Both of Obama's parents could have been 18 year old foreign citizens and he would still be a natural born US Citizen under our Constitution.
namlhots 1 year ago
Julius: Natural-Born = You need to be born to US soil and to US citizens.
peepnklown 3 years ago
If you are born in to US to foreign parents, you have the right to be a natural born citizen.
namlhots 3 years ago
No. If you are born in the US to foreign parents then you are a NATIVE-BORN which is different from a NATURAL-BORN.
peepnklown 3 years ago
By formal definition, natural born describes the parents (jus sanguinis) and native born describes the place (jus soli).
What counts is what the Constitution intends. Ah Wiki, there is a specific link to the discussion between John Jay and Geo. Washington on the subject. They wanted to exclude foreigners from being Commander-in-Chief. They used the term (natural born) incorrectly, but their intent was clear and has evolved to mean both native and natural born.
namlhots 3 years ago
1 They wanted to exclude foreigners and persons with dual loyalties.
2 The term natural-born citizen was first codified in the 1758 legal reference Law of Nations which was the foundation of the legal thinking of the founders and the US Constitution thus, points to WHERE the person was born and WHO where both his parents.
peepnklown 3 years ago
Emerich de Vattel (author of the Law of Nations) went a little further than you in his definition of a natural born citizen. He said natural born applied to place of birth and citizenry of the father.
So I know what he would think of Obama and McCain, he would've prohibited them both from being President. (I disagree with the Law of Nations on both counts.)
Thanks for the reference, it was interesting reading.
namlhots 3 years ago
Youre welcome for the reference and I want everyone to see how civil our discussion is and should be. Just because you disagree with the foundational texts of our US Constitution does not take from the definition of natural-born citizen. If we disagree with such foundation then we need to amend the US Constitution.
peepnklown 3 years ago
This guy is as creepy as the rest of the Rep party.
headly66 3 years ago
I'm a creepy Democrat.
namlhots 3 years ago
In this case, I agree with those who interpret the Constitution in the "spirit" of the law, John McCain, who was born of US citizens outside the physical US, meets the qualifications to be President.
namlhots 3 years ago
That is what I think too, but the words "Natural Born" were intended to convey the requirement that presidents of the new US be born in the new US. Times change and only a very strict constitutionalist would interpret it that way now.
namlhots 3 years ago
"Natural Born" applies to children of citizens born anywhere.
AZTLANBUSTERS 3 years ago
absolutely false... The supreme court ruled Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857): In regard to the "natural born citizen" clause, the dissent states that it is acquired by place of birth (jus soli), not through blood or lineage (jus sanguinis):
juliusbragg 3 years ago
IT doesn't mention place of birth,only that one partner is not a US citizen. This law was in place from Dec. 24,1952 til nov. 13,1986. Obama was born Aug. 04,1961. His mother was born Nov.29,1942.She died Nov. 7,1995 of ovian cancer. Barrack Obama's birth certificate lists his father as African. According to law he is holding US Senate seat illegally ( non-US citizen).
Google: Is Obama Natural Born?
Search:
The CHANGE MAKER - Friends of Obama
Obama Natural born?
nimiixxii 3 years ago
Try Googling the US Constitution.
The Constitution has been in place since 1788. It left it to the States to define citizenship, until the 14th Amendment(1868) defined it this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States".
Perhaps you are thinking of a country where citizenship only passes from the father.
namlhots 3 years ago
citizens, not "natural born" In order to be "natural born", you must be born in the United States, or on a military base AFTER 1937
juliusbragg 3 years ago
Well Bob Barr was born in the united states, and the Libertarians are a growing party
lutermark 3 years ago
When and where is the Libertarian convention?
namlhots 3 years ago
Only people born in 50 states can run. see video v=y4xV4MTnCdc
bsenthil1 4 years ago
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona in 1909, before it was a state. He ran for president in 1964 as the nominee of the Republican Party and received 54 electoral votes.
namlhots 4 years ago
puerto ricans can be a Prez of US?
delsur2009 4 years ago
Good question, I'm not sure, but I would suspect not. Can natural born residents of Washington DC (which is not a state and has no voting reporesentation in Congress) be President?
namlhots 4 years ago
I think so because they were born in US soil that's it, it's part of the main country it's not? Have their own rules but still it's part of the main country since US was created progressively as a UNION.
delsur2009 4 years ago
the principle at any country it's the same thing, do you wanna have a chinese prez???
delsur2009 4 years ago
I agree for a citizenship requirement for president, but trickier for natural born citizens.
namlhots 4 years ago
have to be a natural born citizens, if not anybody from any Colony can be prezz
delsur2009 4 years ago
I meant I'm thinking if a country have colonies or territories out of the main country so anybody from those places can be a prezzz?
delsur2009 4 years ago
wow... alot of people born in August... but I'm alittle bias to August when it comes to birthdays
SunFire1051 4 years ago
I wonder what the most common birthday month is for actual presidents?
namlhots 4 years ago
that's rather interesting to think about.
panama, huh?
i need to spread this to my other politically nerdy friends.
smoore
samuraiswrdguin 4 years ago
Go forth and spread the word, thanks for the smoore, people usually snore about this stuff.
namlhots 4 years ago
Obligatory bawking: WHAT ABOUT RON PAUL!!?! MRRRRRRRRRRRRR :P
chelseyjane 4 years ago
I was going to say it is mathematically impossible for Dr. Paul to get the nomination, but that may be true of Gov. Huckabee too.
Sorry CJ, the good news is that he was born in August 1935 in beautiful Pittsburgh, PA.
namlhots 4 years ago
no worries, i just couldn't resist mentioning it. favorite pre-election hobby: pestering people about ron paul because it somehow never gets old. (unlike him) and you never lose (unlike him. . .)
i did like the video though, all the more reason not to vote mcain :) (like we needed one)
chelseyjane 4 years ago
It's only a reason for a strict constitutionalist to not vote for McCain. I always try to vote for somebody rather than not vote for somebody. Doesn't always work out that way, but it will this election!
namlhots 4 years ago
me too! i'm so excited!
chelseyjane 4 years ago
Tom, when are you gonna run for president?
malinarana 4 years ago
If nominated I will run.
namlhots 4 years ago
politics nerds... DFTBA Tom!
moviemaker1989 4 years ago
Assuming you are a natural born citizen of the US, you will be eligible in 2024.
namlhots 4 years ago
yep, words are tricky
rezurrxtion 4 years ago
And so very human, it may be why some of us nerds take such comfort in numbers.
namlhots 4 years ago
the greatest error is human error
rezurrxtion 4 years ago
Numbers can be tricky too. Darrell Huff's How To Lie with Statistics is still a classic! Real nerds keep one foot in each camp (qualitative and quantitative) and stroke their long beards because they use Occam's Razor so rarely.
irvingmemling 4 years ago
You could even question "artificial insemination".... :P
HeidiSaid 4 years ago
It won't be until around 2013 when the first test tube babies will be eligible for the Presidency. They will say HeidiSaid it first.
namlhots 4 years ago
A favorite. This was great. ~Heidi
HeidiSaid 4 years ago
Interesting thought Tom
I loved the C-Section thing at the end, I was actually wondering that myself throughout this whole video
obsessivejez 4 years ago
It wouldn't even have occurred to anyone in the late 1700's that all births were anything but natural, I wonder why this redundant modifier was placed there to begin with.
namlhots 4 years ago
August Presidents FTW.
lol @ Deval Patrick joke.
But yes, those who would take the constitution "literally" (as if is possible to take a text literally) clearly can't vote for McCain. -John
vlogbrothers 4 years ago
Indeed. And what other attributes constitute "natural born"? Was any of the candidates from his/her mother's womb "untimely ripp'd"?
irvingmemling 4 years ago
Dang, I wish I'd used that quote.
namlhots 4 years ago
There's a lot of "celebrating" going on during the winter holidays.
namlhots 4 years ago
haha, tom. i had no idea this was in the news today. (I found the NY Times article after i watched). someone is no doubt going to sue about this, and mccain will win. thomas will dissent and then his head will explode.
milowent 4 years ago
Did you recognize the picture on the wall Milo? (Also not a United State, not yet anyways.)
namlhots 4 years ago
i am ashamed to say (1) i can't tell, and (2) i overlooked that you did that intentionally!
milowent 4 years ago
Here's a hint: It's a 10 mile by 10 mile square with Alexandria missing.
namlhots 4 years ago
duh!!!! and to think i looked up a map of guantanamo bay before i said i didn't know last time.
milowent 4 years ago