@electroriffs No. It's not. Harvard doesn't just teach you some art classes. It teaches a philosophy, has a certain creed and teaches certain values as well. It's not just the classes you get to take.
Oh and watch me flop out my diploma that says "harvard" on it on my job interview. I think they'll give a shit. Not because of your education necessarily. It matters because they think "Harvard accepted this dude. He must be some serious shit."
The study is actually aimed at teachers. It isn't meant to slam the graduates, per se, but to ascertain exactly how schools continue to fail to teach basic scientific concepts: that even the smartest among us can't answer questions that should have been resolved in elementary school science. I attended a whole teacher workshop on this video once. The point was that science should be more hands on and illustrative than text driven.
How does not knowing a random fact block understanding. Facts are just contingencies in reality, you either know them or you don't but you cannot know all facts and not all facts need to be known.
The only thing this video illustrates is that the producers of this drivel are idiots.
@DarkwingScooter First, it's not a random fact. Random facts don't defy logic, but this misperception does. This idea can't make sense if you are aware of the northern and southern hemispheres having different seasons.
Also, if you watch the whole video (this is just a snippet), you see that what "blocks learning" is the way the diagrams are presented to students. And the producers of this video have a very important point to make about accidentally reinforcing wrong ideas. Not drivel.
@jsecaur I agree with the second part of your reply, the way the video presents it is drivel but it makes sense in the larger context. Perfectly true.
The first part is dangerously misguided though. Random facts DO defy logic, that is why you can't do science using reason alone. Empirical science exists solely for the reason that even something as apparently "logical" as 1+1=2 actually has no logic at all.
Exercise: Think of a logical (non-empirical) way in which the students could be correct.
@DarkwingScooter Are you aware that this isn't the entirety of the video? "The way the video presents it" isn't really captured by this short clip.
I'll concede that my word choice was a bit glib earlier, so I'll try again: it's not a random fact because that fact is tied into a greater knowledge structure. Knowing a few elementary facts will immediately discount the ideas expressed by these Harvard grad. I was not claiming that Philosophy 201-style logic can replace empirical science.
@jsecaur Didn't I say that I agree that the clip makes sense in the larger context. (looks down). Yep I did.
Saying that something is a fact that EVERYBODY must know in order to be knowledgeable is really bad reasoning.
It is hardly surprising that people think that things they happen to know is more important than what other people happen to know, but to say that any body of contingent knowledge is generalisable in the way you suggest is sorely mistaken.
@DarkwingScooter "the way the video presents it is drivel but it makes sense in the larger context." your quote suggests that you were not aware of the entire video.
Also, please stop putting words into my mouth. Everything else you're writing is aimed at a straw man. Have a good life.
@jsecaur You are right, I wasn't aware of the larger video until it was pointed out to me. But that doesn't make the notion that the world is about to come to an end because some arts graduates don't know the correct description of a physical event off hand.
There are terrible travesties of scientific reasoning in the world, this isn't one of them, it is just plain old fashioned ignorance.
Granted this shows a failure in our educational system, but I bet something similar would happen if you asked MIT graduates questions like "What does the sentence 'Wherefore art thou Romeo?' mean?"
The problem is that Liberal Arts students don't value scientific knowledge, and Science majors don't value the Liberal Arts.
To be fair, I imagine most if not all of them are not science majors. The mechanism behind the seasons, while useful to know, really isn't necessary knowledge.
If I ask a bunch of students the meaning and significance of the Romantic Period, I imagine quite a lot of them would not know. It's a basic bit of knowledge and just as useful to know as the mechanism behind seasons, but it's not really necessary
Being an imbecile doesn't prevent you from graduating from the best universities, I guess. Should we be surprised? Or not?
Have these dufi NEVER heard that when it's summer in the northern hemisphere, it's winter in the southern hemisphere and vice versa??? I'd have asked each of them how to explain THAT.
WHO is the gray-haired man visible at about 0:16 and 0:17? Could it be Robert Nozick? He died in 2002. When was this video made?
@beowulfcicero OK, I now see that the said gray-haired man at 0:016--0:17 is either Prof. Nozick or someone impersonating him. (I know of a professor at Harvard who looks and sounds just like Harrison Ford, so maybe the latter is not inconceivable).
I saw a version of this video that was maybe twice as long as this one, before I found this on youtube. It didn't end so early, and had one of these three students saying he'd taken some advanced physics course.
You'd have to see the whole film to really get the point. One bit of misinformation, a visual graphic in most science books that showed the earth's orbit around the sun at an angle. Take this distorted perception and as time goes by, what students remember is the visual image and not the text that explained the seasons. You won't see many textbooks made with that perspective nowadays.
@MikoRobert Princeton and Yale students would have similar explenations (especially if asked in the 80's). It is not the fault of Harvard that these misconceptions persist. The first idea heard is often the last remembered.
It also shows that education does not mean intelligence. This means that Harvard graduates don't know and can't explain why it is summer in Australia when it is winter in England.
I'm almost going to middle school and I know why we have seasons. I bet those graduates must be so embarassed!
athenasmarts123 1 week ago
You paid how much for your education?
1989sfh 3 weeks ago
wow.. so old video.. they're maybe professionals now.
lovelplants 3 weeks ago
@electroriffs No. It's not. Harvard doesn't just teach you some art classes. It teaches a philosophy, has a certain creed and teaches certain values as well. It's not just the classes you get to take.
Oh and watch me flop out my diploma that says "harvard" on it on my job interview. I think they'll give a shit. Not because of your education necessarily. It matters because they think "Harvard accepted this dude. He must be some serious shit."
YouJelly21 2 months ago
The study is actually aimed at teachers. It isn't meant to slam the graduates, per se, but to ascertain exactly how schools continue to fail to teach basic scientific concepts: that even the smartest among us can't answer questions that should have been resolved in elementary school science. I attended a whole teacher workshop on this video once. The point was that science should be more hands on and illustrative than text driven.
nanpetersen 5 months ago
How does not knowing a random fact block understanding. Facts are just contingencies in reality, you either know them or you don't but you cannot know all facts and not all facts need to be known.
The only thing this video illustrates is that the producers of this drivel are idiots.
DarkwingScooter 5 months ago
@DarkwingScooter First, it's not a random fact. Random facts don't defy logic, but this misperception does. This idea can't make sense if you are aware of the northern and southern hemispheres having different seasons.
Also, if you watch the whole video (this is just a snippet), you see that what "blocks learning" is the way the diagrams are presented to students. And the producers of this video have a very important point to make about accidentally reinforcing wrong ideas. Not drivel.
jsecaur 5 months ago
@jsecaur I agree with the second part of your reply, the way the video presents it is drivel but it makes sense in the larger context. Perfectly true.
The first part is dangerously misguided though. Random facts DO defy logic, that is why you can't do science using reason alone. Empirical science exists solely for the reason that even something as apparently "logical" as 1+1=2 actually has no logic at all.
Exercise: Think of a logical (non-empirical) way in which the students could be correct.
DarkwingScooter 5 months ago
@DarkwingScooter Are you aware that this isn't the entirety of the video? "The way the video presents it" isn't really captured by this short clip.
I'll concede that my word choice was a bit glib earlier, so I'll try again: it's not a random fact because that fact is tied into a greater knowledge structure. Knowing a few elementary facts will immediately discount the ideas expressed by these Harvard grad. I was not claiming that Philosophy 201-style logic can replace empirical science.
jsecaur 5 months ago
@jsecaur Didn't I say that I agree that the clip makes sense in the larger context. (looks down). Yep I did.
Saying that something is a fact that EVERYBODY must know in order to be knowledgeable is really bad reasoning.
It is hardly surprising that people think that things they happen to know is more important than what other people happen to know, but to say that any body of contingent knowledge is generalisable in the way you suggest is sorely mistaken.
People know what they need to know...
DarkwingScooter 5 months ago
@DarkwingScooter "the way the video presents it is drivel but it makes sense in the larger context." your quote suggests that you were not aware of the entire video.
Also, please stop putting words into my mouth. Everything else you're writing is aimed at a straw man. Have a good life.
jsecaur 5 months ago
Comment removed
DarkwingScooter 5 months ago
@jsecaur You are right, I wasn't aware of the larger video until it was pointed out to me. But that doesn't make the notion that the world is about to come to an end because some arts graduates don't know the correct description of a physical event off hand.
There are terrible travesties of scientific reasoning in the world, this isn't one of them, it is just plain old fashioned ignorance.
DarkwingScooter 5 months ago
Yes Harvard, it gets colder as we move away from the almighty Dayball.
Zenywolf 9 months ago
tilt of earths axis 23.5 degrees.
Txwaffle 10 months ago
wow, and they just graduated.sad
meredith176stephanie 10 months ago
i have a little sister now....i am going to have so many arguments with her teachers x.x
frogz 11 months ago
Hmmph, I thought it was evenly distance around Earth but different angle (more shadow for winters).
antdude 1 year ago
The full video makes much bigger points. It's available to watch for free online at learner dot org, under resources/series28.html
Gondring 1 year ago
@electroriffs its little kids like you that graduate and think they know everything. please a bachelors is the new high school diploma.
RlCHART 1 year ago 2
At least college caused them to act like they have the answers
DutchNordic 1 year ago 4
Granted this shows a failure in our educational system, but I bet something similar would happen if you asked MIT graduates questions like "What does the sentence 'Wherefore art thou Romeo?' mean?"
The problem is that Liberal Arts students don't value scientific knowledge, and Science majors don't value the Liberal Arts.
qu1et 1 year ago
To be fair, I imagine most if not all of them are not science majors. The mechanism behind the seasons, while useful to know, really isn't necessary knowledge.
If I ask a bunch of students the meaning and significance of the Romantic Period, I imagine quite a lot of them would not know. It's a basic bit of knowledge and just as useful to know as the mechanism behind seasons, but it's not really necessary
zoor90 1 year ago
i studyed about how seasons work not long ago and i am so glad that im actually smarter then them at that ^.^ yay
yoruichi0109 1 year ago
This is from the documentary "A Private Universe," on how to help students overcome incorrectly held ideas.
therockacrossthepond 1 year ago
How the fuck would their theory agree with the fact that summer and winter both occur at the same time in the different hemispheres
qbslug 1 year ago 8
Many of these students will go on and be top of the work hierarchy .
GLeNss 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
the real answer is: who gives a fuck :P
d6forze 1 year ago
Being an imbecile doesn't prevent you from graduating from the best universities, I guess. Should we be surprised? Or not?
Have these dufi NEVER heard that when it's summer in the northern hemisphere, it's winter in the southern hemisphere and vice versa??? I'd have asked each of them how to explain THAT.
WHO is the gray-haired man visible at about 0:16 and 0:17? Could it be Robert Nozick? He died in 2002. When was this video made?
beowulfcicero 1 year ago
@beowulfcicero OK, I now see that the said gray-haired man at 0:016--0:17 is either Prof. Nozick or someone impersonating him. (I know of a professor at Harvard who looks and sounds just like Harrison Ford, so maybe the latter is not inconceivable).
I saw a version of this video that was maybe twice as long as this one, before I found this on youtube. It didn't end so early, and had one of these three students saying he'd taken some advanced physics course.
beowulfcicero 1 year ago
and this is why MIT will always be better than Harvard.
nkip9230 1 year ago 37
@nkip9230 Don't get cocky: search YouTube for "MIT genuises with lightbulb"
johnmcaraher 1 month ago 3
You'd have to see the whole film to really get the point. One bit of misinformation, a visual graphic in most science books that showed the earth's orbit around the sun at an angle. Take this distorted perception and as time goes by, what students remember is the visual image and not the text that explained the seasons. You won't see many textbooks made with that perspective nowadays.
mommyalmighty 1 year ago
The tilt and rotation of the earth idiots!
MrSuperdude9 2 years ago
*facepalm!!
You ruined the reputation of Harvard...
If tons of people see this they will change their mind on going to Harvard and choose Princeton or Yale instead..
No Offense
LOL
MikoRobert 2 years ago
@MikoRobert Princeton and Yale students would have similar explenations (especially if asked in the 80's). It is not the fault of Harvard that these misconceptions persist. The first idea heard is often the last remembered.
liamohooligan 1 year ago
This shows we need to question what education is.
It also shows that education does not mean intelligence. This means that Harvard graduates don't know and can't explain why it is summer in Australia when it is winter in England.
DUH!
psikeyhackr 2 years ago