while im a child myself ive had alot of experience on c64's so i want to get the extreme edition so 10+ years down the road i can show my kids what some of the first pcs LOOKED like, and if my dad really does still have his c64 i will show them what they were really like.
@miklevin Six months in, and I'm loving it as much as day #1. I've come to like the cherry blue clicky keys even more than buckling springs! Getting ready to upgrade motherboard to quad-core i7.
@jetflock 1964? A PDP-10? You can hardly call that a PC. And $4000 for a Mac? Mac mini's are $600 and iPhone 3G's are free with a contract. Apple's are no more expensive than equivalent PCs—it's no longer Scully's Apple from the 90's.
@miklevin if wozniak stuck with then they would be hella cheaper (atleast i know the os would, wozniak wanted to give it all out for free in the first place)
@FragBashers I love Woz, and probably am in spirit more aligned to him than Jobs. Problem is that there is a virtuous cycle between proprietary and open systems, with one always pushing the other forward, and so on. Without Jobs, the hardware would probably not be 1/10th as cool or as small. The proprietary folks, at lest in Job's case, are the uncompromising artists more anxious to please the world with "it just works" products than those that impress and are only usable by other techs.
@miklevin this is all true, so very true. without jobs the company and their products would in no way be what they are, but he shouldn't get all the credit, but it still seems to be that apple tech is overpriced *sigh*.
@miklevin this is all true, so very true. without jobs the company and their products would in no way be what they are, but he shouldn't get all the credit, but it still seems to be that apple tech is overpriced *sigh*.
@jetflock Who said I want a cheap Mac? Macs are pretty inexpensive, anyway. Just get a Mac mini and spare yourself the grief of being in the shadowy hackintosh world. Mac mini's are a very nice piece of hardware for $600. Again, anyone who has a wild hair up their but over pricing, get a Raspberry Pi with a Linux desktop for $35. If all you want is a cheap PC, you're over-paying x10 if you spent $350 on it.
@miklevin I have a Hackintosh and surprisingly, Snow Leopard runs better than Windows and Linux on the shit poor PC I have. I would get a Mac Mini, but I don't like how Apple is now iOS-ifying the Mac. I'd probably get a Snow Leo-compatible Mac Mini secondhand.
@TwiIightSparkle I love the iOS-ifying of the Mac. Anything to get rid of messy inefficient overlapping windows generally makes me happy. And when you miss the power, just open the built-in Unix shell
The original model had a bad motivator. :) Actually, the VIC-II chip had a bad sprite, and the newer 1987 motherboard had a bad serial port, so I took the VIC-II out of the newer model and seated it into the older motherboard. I had already modified the original B motherboard with a soft reset switch, so it was the easiest way to go. However, they keyboard in the old model was shot, so I had to build it into the newer machine that had been used as a games machine, rather than for programming.
I like the original keyboard on the classic Commodore 64. They're on springs, but not "buckled springs," so how do the blue switches compare to that? I love the classic design of the brown "breadbox" model, but I had to compromise with the looks/ergonomics against functionality by building my working classic Commodore 64 into a 1987 slimline case. The case looks a bit lighter in shade than my ancient motherboard B original from 1982. Though it is 30 years old now.
@pryletoncyo You're talking about the C64C that took on the look of the C128 / A500 / Atari ST / Apple II / T-99/4 / every-other-one-piece-design of the 80's? I am impressed by your modding ability, but have to reject that the slimline design is ergonomically superior to the old beige clunker. Yes, the original C64 design sits higher, but unless you rest your palms on the table while you type, just raise your chair higher.
@miklevin Thanks for replying, but I compromised the looks and ergonomics for the functionality, so my Commodore 64 is the slimline one, but the original motherboard. I like the ergonomics and the looks of the original design. Amiga had a nice keyboard.
@pryletoncyo Regarding the keys, I can't speak for comparing to the old C64. I was an Amiga person, which used the bent-paperclip style springs. Both buckling springs and cherry blue switches blow the bent paperclip feel out of the water—still better than today's $20 keyboard rubber domes. I hear good things about the A4000's keyboard, but never had an opportunity to really use it. Most of these clicky keyboards increase productivity due to some difficult-to-describe effect of the clicking.
@miklevin The original Commodore 64 keyboard had springs, well built, but had the problem that they were prone to wearing out. I don't know about the later keyboards, maybe better, maybe worse, I just wanted to build a working C64. I like the ergonomics of the original design, you just wrote what I was gonna write.
@miklevin Anyway, the springs in the 1982 Commodore 64 keyboard are definitely round and springy. Hard springs behind each key. The later keyboard is also spring-driven, no change to any cheaper solution, but I wonder how Commodore could afford such luxury for a basic home computer?
Y grandfather's TRS-80 Model 1 back in the day, a TRS-80 Model III in H.S. and a Timex Sinclair TS-1000 at home. Later in life I was on the waiting list for a BeBox.
Micro PC in a Commodore case with a hilarious pricetag that you could buy a decent gaming tower for. Well done for finding a unique way of burining your cash.
@R33Racer Okay, so let me get this straight: you think $600 is a hilarious pricetag for a slick daily productivity machine that is a pleasure to program on and infinitely upgradable. Yet, you think spending the same $600 on a bulky tower for gaming is a good idea? I question which of us is burning our cash, if time is worth any money. Have fun playing games!
@miklevin Yup.Look at it either way, you can build a micro PC as small as (or smaller) for 2/3 of that price, probably less. Or you can just hack a micro motherboard into an existing C64 case. All your paying for is the pastics, and the massive profit they make from it. Though to be fair, after seeing Amiga and Commodore re-boots over the last 10 years, the franchise is a joke and show pgullible people would buy anything that has a boingball or a chickenlips logo at any pricetag.
@R33Racer I could get a Raspberry Pi micro PC for $35, so price isn't really the issue here, and even so, you're going all "it's not worth it" over what you say is 1/3 premium pricing. So according to you, that 1/3 premium that I paid isn't worth the cherry blue switches of a Das keyboard, which alone costs $100? But actually I get much more than that, when you factor in the saved time of not having to build it, plus the uniqueness of the device and brand. I guess haters just have to hate.
@miklevin I wold usuallu agree but I have seen footage of these being made and it's nothing to write home about. It isnt painstaking at all it's just bottom half get moulded, top half gets moulded, all the other bits like keys and keyboard which doesnt look like it would cost much either. And you end up paying $350 for a case and keyboard!? I don't hate it I think it's great this exists but I feel that C= is a joke and should really do something original rather then rely on nostalgia.
@R33Racer Have you ever seen a Das Keyboard? They sell for over $100, because it makes typing a pleasure. C= used this component, alone responsible for at lest half the premium pricing. How so? Let's say a decent netbook costs $400. I paid $600. That means $200 is above what a comparable (non-upgradable) machine. Almost $100 goes towards the superior keys alone, leaving only about $100 to C=. This is way better than just a nostalgia thing. And I can keep putting newer/better ITX mb's into it.
@miklevin So they are $200 now? Ok well with that sort of maths (I say mathS being British) I can see no point bothering to take the conversation further. (Though $200 would seem much more like it).
@R33Racer No, my C64x Basic was $600. I'm comparing that to a typical PC based on an Atom motherboard costing $400, per your assertion. That makes the C64x about $200 more than a equivalent PC. So, the allegedly wasted money amounts to $200, for which I say that $100 is applied towards exceptionally high-quality clicky keys, making what I bought only $100 more expensive than an el-cheap-o PC with a great keyboard.
@mrfuzzer1 I beg to differ. Look at Apple's attitude towards suppliers, deep vertical integration of components, and radically custom designs. Even the very ARM processors powering iOS devices was a direct response to Commodore by a collaboration of Acorn, VLSI and Apple. Not many people know, but today's powerful low-power devices are more directly in the lineage of C= and MOS than Wintel. Commodore didn't learn from its own mistakes. Apple did, and is today what Commodore might have become.
@miklevin Its speculation. You could say the same thing with Playstation, nintendo or xbox. The real question is where did the market go. I dont think Apple is the answer. I think they all went their own way. I dont see any evidence that the C market went to Apple more than any other computer brand. Remember the high point of Commodore was the C64, A500 and 1000. They all brought something better hardware wise. I dont see apple doing that today. But show me the evidence and ill change my mind.
@mrfuzzer1 Nope, you can'd say the same thing with Playstation, Nintendo or XBox, because none of those are computer companies--they're game machines. And none of them designed their own CPUs. Sony at least participated in the Cell processor alliance. But nothing comes even in the ballpark of the C=/MOS/proprietary forge their own way vs entire computer industry as Apple with the ARM alliance and subsequent work as a licensee and using a low-power/low-cost chip to rock an industry. Research!
@miklevin Im not sure what you mean by the ARM Alliance. If were talking about the processor thats not apple strictly some of the people involved are Samsung,and LG among others. If we are talking about the Aim Alliance then IBM was a part of that and this was prior to Commodore collapsing. I must be missing something here.
@mrfuzzer1 Nope. ARM. It was Acorn, Apple and VLSI as a response to... drumroll please... Commodore's dominance in the home computer market, thanks to MOS and the 6502 and 6510 chips. Acorn engineers wanted something just as cheap as Commodore's chips, but with better graphics and not from Commodore, and brought in Apple and VLSI. The descendant from that project powered cellphones for awhile, and thanks to the iPad, started getting into cheap general computing devices... echos of MOS.
@miklevin Link please, If anything intel and pc "Though not a company" is dominating the market today. But in any case if you bring up cellphones and ipads i dont see why i cant bring up games consoles. BTW if you link keep it in the present tech not upcomming or anything half baked. But still my point is and always was Where did the market go. You say to apple i say Prove it.
@mrfuzzer1 Indeed, you can bring up game consoles. In the quarter ending December 31, the iPhone rang up sales of more than $24 billion. All of Microsoft's businesses -- Windows, Office, Xbox, enterprise, consumers, the whole shebang -- chalked up almost $21 billion in revenues. Think about that -- that's just one product from Apple, the heir to the C64 given ARM's role today as analogous to the 6502/10 in the 80's. This fact is is breathtaking... unlike anything... since... the... original C64!
@xTIxLyricz Yeah, as much as I talk about Ubuntu and FOSS here, it's the C64x chassis that's special, with it's style, awesome keyboard and infinite upgradability via new mini ITX motherboards.
@burnstagger I never said Apple was free and open but the Mac OS is more so than Windows, based on Unix Darwin which you can download the source and compile. It's just the Cocoa GUI stuff that's not, but nearly all FOSS written for Unix compiles and runs on Mac. You don't need Cygwin or any such nonsense.
@Nikotiini69 Many people hate Ubuntu these days. Ubuntu is finally and wisely starting to diverge from the Windows user interface that arguably was its heritage, towards something that will work better on tablet devices. Basically, it eliminates steering through drop-down menus like a video game in favor of a simple launcher and typing what you want into a search tool called Dash, reminiscent of Apple Spotlight. Many people still want their ridiculous drop-down menus, driving them towards Mint.
@miklevin Ubuntu NEVER ran a Windows UI...it runs XFCE, GNOME, KDE, Unity, and one other DE that starts with an L. XFCE LOOKS like Win 3.11, but there's a BIG difference.
@ChozoSR388 It's not THE Windows UI. It is A windows UI. I'm talking about drop-down menus that you have to configure and endlessly steer through, only to have your mouse slip off and start again. Every install has to deal with whether and where to install things on the drop-down menu, which is never where you want, which needs to be overwritten. Ubuntu rose to popularity in part because it emulated Windows--not as much as Xandros, but still pretty extreme.
@purpleravenstar Only the messy and rapidly going out of vogue "Oscar Madison" interfaces we have today were stolen from Xerox PARC. The clean and rapidly rising in popularity "Felix Unger" interfaces were not. And I say good riddance. Who wants overlapping easy to lose windows and video-game menus? I much prefer the clean screen-based approach of iOS that Android copied. Even Windows itself is moving away from windows via Aerosnap that tidies things up into screens, or at least panes.
I personally feel "meh" towards Ubuntu. Performance with regards to gaming isn't the same as running a game inside of Windows, AMD gets little love for their drivers and all of the software I like to use is for Windows only.
The only distro I do use is Joli OS on my netbook because it's an awesome cloud based Ubuntu OS, and faster/smoother than Windows on a netbook...I don't think either is better than the other generally speaking.
@LordReserei01 I can understand and respect that. I'm not steering anyone towards Ubuntu as a gaming platform. I just feel that in the long-run, games will come and go. For that matter, Windows itself will come and go in that versions are so radically different now, that most of your Windows-specific expertise becomes forever more quickly obsolete. But Linux/Unix knowledge and know-how is forever.
@mixindave1 That's a common misconception, but Macs are based on POSIX-compliant Unix called Darwin that you can get the source code to. Tightly integrated are not always so open, but I can download Xcode for free and get the gcc toolchain
WOW !! pretty damn cool ! :D You should try the Ubuntu/Zorin OS .. Feels like windows.. But it also has a setting to make it feel like a MAC ... Pretty cool OS :)
@wingnut4427 I'll take a look at Zorin, but I have steered through my last dropdown menu that plague Windows and seem to impose some sort of video-game criteria to finding and running your program. I am no fan of the Windows UI, and was immediately drawn to the Ubuntu Unity interface by which you just start to type the name of the app you want to run, and it ops up--similar to OS X Spotlight, which I also love. This is ultimately why I'm choosing Unity over Linux Mint as well.
@smilegeek123 No, this is the Basic version, a configuration no longer offered. It had a 1.8GHz Atom processor. Currently, CUSA is offering Ultimate and Extreme, which are considerably more powerful. Barebones doesn't even come with a motherboard, so if you go that route, you will have to get your own mini-ITX motherboard and other components. I suggest checking the commodore-amiga org forums for support and more details. A lot of people there build Barebones C64x's.
@sectec25blog Yes, that is Unicomp, the IBM Mode-M keyboard factory that bought itself out when Lexmark got out of the keyboard business. Great story there, and great product. I highly recommend them. The Customizer 104/105 is what I'm using in the video.
I found it rather interesting that you have no windows machines in that setup. I could not imagine working at an office with not at least 1 computer that ran some sort of windows OS
@thehackerz101 The thing the micro-server and Linksys router are on is an HP laptop with Windows XP. It's my actual work-provided PC, which I need mostly for MS Office and Outlook.
I like the slick office you work in, where is it? I don't understand the comment about Apple's 'deep vertical integration'? or 'layered up advantages'? Can you pin it down to specifics you're thinking of and advantages you're given please?
@vapourmile Thanks for the office compliment. It's a digital marketing firm in Manhattan. Great place to work. Google my name for details. Regarding deep vertical integration, there's not enough room in a YouTube comment field, suffice to say, C= was so competitive by controlling, and often owning, every minuscule thing, from the CPU to the motherboard design, to the case. The Steve Jobs biography really hits home how you can make products better with such end-to-end control.
@miklevin Mmm, I agree with you, although my explanation is different: There is very little ingenuity today. Most new features are owing to increasing CPU power or memory. The Commodore machines could be classed as inventions, and they facilitated very inventive software design because they gave the programmer the keys to the system. There was integration too, a 1:1 coupling between software, CPU, support silicon and Display. These days, I think, abstraction and reusability discard ingenuity.
@vapourmile The problem there is that there's massive support for stuff that has certain abstraction layers. Almost all 1-to-1 software/hardware products are set-ups for obsolescence. I'd suggest the Arduino for the closest thing that still has some life in it. Rasberry Pi has much more power, but also has much more abstraction. Just pick the minimum but best abstraction layers, and master those. That approach can be satisfying, supported, and timeless... and sometimes a bit innovative.
@miklevin How I'd defend the Commodore style of doing things (which, to be fair, was similar to how many home+games micros were designed, only Commodore's were better) is to add that whilst abstraction speeds up transitions over layers, such as porting an OpenGL app to different platforms, it acts as a layer of padding to soften the blow of transition, and in doing so softens the link between application and hardware.
@miklevin This means that whilst colossal applications can be ported, sometimes with just a few hours of input, small details which can be crucial are swept away. Programmers have noted that, whilst the 64 may be many orders of magnitude slower than a PC of today, the absence of any abstraction means the scheduling of any machine instruction can be honed down to exactly 0.000001/sec which is massively more precise than today's desktop where accuracy loses out over speed.
@vapourmile That's precisely why I suggest the Arduino as where that spirit of precision, and knowing things down to the silicon-level still exists. Tons of embedded systems work with very little abstraction. They're just not reasonably available as a hacking platform to the general user, but the Arduino is. If you're trying to recapture that old feeling of knowing a piece of hardware inside and out (that's worth knowing in the general world), then the Arduino may be it.
@miklevin Actually thanks, I looked into it and I like it. I don't know if you know about it but also, XGameStation are keeping the spirit alive through a series of products and their Chameleon line reads as a response to Arduino, only with 200MIPS of CPU performance, suggesting about 500x the power of C64. Although they all seem to fall down a little in the graphics department since it is possibly harder to source surface-mount GPUs than CPUs?
@vapourmile I just added XGameStation to my InstaPaper to read more about. Yes, these open source hardware projects usually lack graphics-power, but not because of lack-of-surface mount (Tegra in the Zune, PowerVR in iPhones, etc.) but because those components are highly proprietary and force you to work through API's. My favorite is Raspberry Pi, an Arduino-sized & priced device capable of running Quake 3 in 1080p. But those graphics are the only non-open part of the device (a blob library).
@vapourmile Well, it sounds like I have a lot more reading to do! But I think you may be introducing a new concept into the discussion regarding understanding things down to the metal. There's understanding, and then there's CHANGING what's going on with the metal (termed Application-specific integrated circuit or ASIC). The Zync chip you discuss appears to be an ARM Cortex plus programmability to get your app into the metal (vs. software). That C= feeling was just about the understanding part.
@vapourmile Oh, don't be sore :p It surely is cool technology, and maybe even the future of hardware. But you'd have to be an engineer to start out on the thing. If you want to play with things down to the metal, it's best these days just to hop on the Arduino bandwagon. Very solid spec. Very simple hardware. The board design is open source, and all component chips are available in open hardware versions.
Well it costs too much for just a cheap modern PC inside a case very similar to C64. While it looks cool it's easier and way cheaper to get a netbook and install ubuntu with VICE - a portable C64 that just looks a bit less like original :)
@St33lR0b0t Yes, but try using that netbook as your main day-to-day work computer. Your fingers will cramp. You will go cross-eyed. And when it comes time for a new computer, you have to throw it out and get a new one. With the C64x, you can upgrade forever, making each subsequent computer cheaper. And you are on a keyboard, which in my mind is like using a Herman Miller Aeron chair -- versus a netbook, which is more like a bar stool.
Nice video. Nice machine. Although I really miss booting up rom Basic in seconds.
So an old Commodore employee.. Too bad. I sure wish I had worked for this company too except for the Jack attacks... LOL! Apparently you missed those too!.
@TookMe20min2findThis Yes, I missed those, but I kind of regret it. I'm reading Steve Job's biography, and have read about his philosophy of preventing the bozo-explosion and how his explosive personality was a filter (B's don't survive). I think the Jack Attacks served a very similar purpose, and I feel I missed the "real" Commodore by not being there during those days. I feel I may have been amongst a great many mikelev.in/poetry/bees/
As someone who actually worked with computer from the era (ti99/4a and coco) I diffidently get it. Working with computers was way different back then. Programming was way different, learning how these computers ticked was way different. You had to either wait for a magazine article or a book to come out. There was no Internet. Heck, there were no hard drives. You did it all on floppies, cartridges or even more retro, cassette tape! It's about feel and feeling elite(tm)
@mrRhwalden That spirit survives today, perhaps in a less pioneering form, but still quite exciting in embedded systems, and a new breed of $25 nano-computers ready to flood the market. I've been using the SheevaPlug for this, but am actually quite jazzed over a project called Raspberry Pi about to go into production. It's billed as the UK's solution to computer literacy not being REAL computer literacy... i.e. the hacker spirit, and understanding things down to the metal.
Having access to the source code is great, but its not as great as it use to be when you actually ran the source code through an interpreter, and could type LIST to view it and change it. Now, its pointless, because even if you can download it from source forge, it'd take you weeks to figure out how to set up the development environment the guy used to compile the bullshit. And Linux isn't that great - its ugly and rancid underneath the hood, slapped together and held together by duct tape.
@cobrachoppergirl That criticism is a common attempt discredit Linux for the stunning collaborative product of humankind that it is - running everything from the majority of the world's supercomputers to the majority of it's home WiFi routers... and probably about half of the world's websites. That sort of trusted 24/7 reliability just doesn't jive with the picture you're trying to draw. And if you're compiling Linux from scratch, it takes weeks to grok it all yesterday, today or tomorrow.
Impressive Linux Beard (tm). Now promoted to Ubuntu-on-C-64 Beard (tm).
A PC in a non-original-C64 case is a completely pointless exercise to me. Unless you plan to sneak in some video gaming during work hours, I could see that.
@BaldingEagle51 Nope, not much of a gamer, and the original C64's keys don't have a good enough typing feel for me. The C64x is for making my daily work-day more pleasant, and to have a machine at the office where I can complete my move to free and open source software. Purely a productivity machine.
GEEK!!!!!!!! I mean that in the best possible way, of course. I still have a Commodore 64, Vic-20 and Apple ][e. I'm definitely going to get a 64x. Thanks for the post.
@OhFishyFish Sure, you pay some premium for the nostalgia, but yes, definitely. The competitive advantage of working on a cool and superior keyboard that makes working subtly more satisfying, is definitely thinking outside the box. And is it really over-priced, once you take the $100 or so a Das Keyboard costs and add it to the $400 or so a decent netbook costs? I do hope in time they will make it less expensive, but it's not nearly as clear-cut as your comment implies.
@miklevin Correct me if I'm wrong, but $400 is a price for keyboard and case only and basic Atom configuration costs $999. I can only presume that $400 Commodore keyboard is very, very superior over all other mechanical keyboards on the market for 20% of this price.
@OhFishyFish I got the basic Atom configuration for $607.31 (including shipping, etc.). Round that to $600. Subtract $400 for a netbook, and another $100 for a Das Keyboard (yes, it's that good). That leaves $100 premium that I paid for all the work done to bring back the brand, do the casework and engineering. It's a great deal for the wonderful value and enjoyment I'm getting out of it. I'll be upgrading it with future ITX motherboards long into the future, so I consider it a great purchase.
This is a decent effort but at the end of the day it's still just a pc more or less, whether it have windows or linux on it doesn't change that.
Bottom line, if it doesn't have proprietary hw with unique chips that say MOS on it, it's not a commodore. If you turn it on and you don't see a ready prompt with a blinking cursor, it's not a C64!
What they should be spending their efforts on is to revive say the C65 and recreate that, it's where commodore left off instead of making pc clones.
@SinistaN A few corrections about the "spirit" of the C64. 1) Yes, C= owned MOS, but MOS was purchased by C= and the 6502 chip was a clone of the Motorola 6800, simply made cheaper with fewer registers. 2) Yes, C64 did instant-on, but it was only to a slightly re-worked version of Microsoft BASIC (proven in court). You'd have an argument if you talked about the VIC-II and SID chips. But frankly, I was unimpressed by the original C64. I was an Amiga fan. I like the new C64 for the style and feel!
@miklevin Your argument is basically that because it has a c64 breadbox case and a clicky keyboard that makes it a c64. It doesn't matter if I left out the vic-2 or sid, the point is the hw that made a c64 is not there it's been replaced by a pc. It's not even close. So as far as that goes you could just have an empty old breadbox shell and original keyboard, interface it to a usb and use that on your pc with an emulator. Is it still a 64? If they had used a c=1 board it would have been closer
@SinistaN The notion that something can't be modernized because the original used kooky proprietary hardware is silly. The original C64 had what it had inside because it was CHEAPER that way. The modern C64x has what it has inside, because it's cheaper that way too. If Jack Tramiel himself were making the decisions, I'm sure he would have done something similar. Kooky proprietary hardware may have been more powerful and cheaper back then, but not anymore.
@miklevin Sure anyone can make a new computer and call it what they want. I just don't think it makes much sense to call it a c64. What's the new "amiga" going to be? Another clone of what's in the 64x? What is the point? Things can evolve sure but that was already spearheaded by commodore themselves with the C65 project, cmd and jeri with the commodore one. Now if they offered a recreated C65 (which is entirely possible), I'll be the first in line to buy. I just don't get c64 pc clone, sorry
@SinistaN "Sure anyone can make a new computer and call it what they want"... uh, not without the rights, they can't. Merely navigating those rights was a huge accomplishment here. And why the C65? That was canned for the Amiga, which was really an Atari-engineer accomplishment, anyway. Plus, C= itself made most of its money on PCs - the PC20, PC40, etc. when they competed with Tandem computers over 486's in their heyday. Why not bring back the beige boxes? Those were "real" C= products too.
@miklevin You have to have rights to create a new pc? I don't think so. People build their own pc's all the time, and can sell them too. Sure they can't slap a "commodore" name on it, but why would they want to? If this works for you then great..it's your money after all. And I get to some degree the all in one computer in a keyboard spirit angle, I just don't think you need the c64 on it to accomplish it. Sorry but /me predicts this fad will fade more quickly than the c64 and plus4 did
@SinistaN So, there is no value in brand, nostalgia or style? That's fine; I know the C64x isn't for everyone. As for me, I was deeply connected with C=, having worked there, led a local users group and spoken at shareholder meetings. This connects me to those days, suits my particular typing preference, and can be upgraded indefinitely into the future. You are entitled to believe that there is no value in that, but as for me, I am surprised and delighted how well it turned out.
@miklevin style is fine, brand is fine, nostalgia is fine. what im saying is, do you really need to call it a C64 or vic. didn't you say you were more of an amiga fan than the c=64? So why not get this in a new amiga pc instead? I just don't get the vic or 64 angle for what is a pc. Now, if they put out this new amiga with a ppc board and os4.1 by default, they may just have something.
@SinistaN Even though I was an Amiga fan, there's nothing cool and distinctive about any of the Amiga's cases, except the original Amiga 1000. Plus, there was so much special and ahead of its time going on inside the Amiga, I would always be disappointed. The C64 was about on par with other computers of its time--just cheaper. However, the case was unlike anything else, and is deeply ingrained in the world's psyche as the most successful computer of all time. It makes for the BEST retro case.
@miklevin I'll agree with you there. I love my breadbox C64 and will always have one. Even after the 64c came out I still preferred the original recipe 64 case, just because I'ts what I first had and what I was acclimated to.
@SinistaN Well, I guess we agree on something. The A1000 was cool due to how the detached keyboard slid perfectly under the pizza box design, but everything after that was just that generic Apple / Atari / Acorn, one-piece design look. The C64, and actually the VIC-20 first, had a one-piece-design unlike any other, that has the classic feel of a Shelby Ford Mustang or something that encapsulates the entire dawn of the home computer era at a glance, and that's what I love here. And it's usable!
@miklevin I'll agree with you on that too actually, I too liked the hideaway keyboard compartment, not that I had an A1000 I had a B2000, ugly and pc like as it was. No longer have it and have an A500 now just for games and again that nostalgia thing.
@miklevin unfortunately they don't make computers bios with easter eggs like that anymore, at least none that I know about. they were right about commodore though, although there's no guarantee atari wouldn't have done the same. atari f'd up the lynx (epyx handy also created by a few of the original amiga team members), and that wasn't too long after the amiga.
@summer20105707 Yep, the VIC20 was where the design first appeared, or more technically correct, the VIC-1001 in Japan. I'm still trying to get the story straight of who actually designed the case. The net is full of stories about Al Charpentier and the two Bob's doing the chips and circuit board, but there's not much on the case, except vague mention of contributions by the Japanese team. I'd be curious to learn.
@MadFranko008 I agree Commodore played an important role in the home computer industry, but your tone and conclusions are baffling. I focus on what I focus on because it is an unboxing and the quality of the typing is the irreplaceable (high quality), but you can put any mini-ITX motherboard in there and any operating system on it.
doritostheking Really, do you have first-hand knowledge that they went for a Windows OEM deal? And what do you mean regarding using the images on it? Please elaborate.
You seemed more interested in having some nice "clicky" keys rather than what the actual computer could do itself...
Mind you it is after all nothing more than an overpriced PC running a C64 emulator in a fake C64 case, so I guess "clicky" keys is the only real highlight of buying such an overpriced piece of junk... :-)
Oh well, it's your money that was wasted I suppose, I'm off now to play with my genuine C64 made by the REAL Commodore... :-)
Obviously, it's just an overpriced PC in a fake C64 case. Everybody knows that. The look and feel of the thing ARE the only advantages. So it makes sense that he spends time testing the keyboard feel. That was one of the things I was interested in - and it's good to get the opinion of somebody who uses a buckling spring keyboard.
I wouldn't get one of these things myself, but I wouldn't put him down for trying to revive the feelings of the "good old days". (however fake)
He could have saved a hell of a lot of money if all he wanted to do was "revive the feelings of the good old days" and bought a genuine C64 from eBay... ;-)
Been (and still am) a Commodore user for over 30 years Vic 20, C64 & Amiga, Barry Altman and his fake CUSA are a disgrace to the legacy of real the Commodore and the important role they played in shaping the world of home computing... ;-)
If folk want to pay silly money for "clicky" keys then that's their fault.
@miklevin I'm currently trying out the Commodore OS Vision beta on my PC. It's full of retro goodness sounds, effects (if i can get them to work) and emulators from the Commodore and Amigas of yesteryear. linuxbookpro.tumblr.com
@OBSysteme Platforms are all well and good, but even Macs these days are Unix boxes running on x86 hardware, so you have to really ask yourself what a platform is anymore. What this device is, is a chassis you can be excited about because of the nostalgia and a superior keyboard. Sure, you can install Linux on anything, but show me any other manufacturer with the gumption to throw their support behind FOSS and thumb their nose at Microsoft as the DEFAULT set-up.
@miklevin They're only doing it because they can't get a windows OEM licence. Hell, they can't even get a real website. Or Permission to use the images on it. It's pretty sad.
@OBSysteme I don't miss the original C64 at all. I miss Commodore, and the C64 happens to symbolically represent it more strongly than anything else--even the Amiga, which was my true computer love. What's so cool here is that unlike nearly every other computer manufacturer who eventually gets bullied into bundling Windows, Commodore has gone a different route and is aligning itself with one of the few things left on this world in computing worth having a passion for: Linux and the FOSS movement
@OBSysteme Yes, I was never a big fan of the original C64, believe it or not. I am an Amiga guy. But the C64 case is much more distinctive with way more geek cred. I'm not making any arguments that this is a throwback to a time when keyboards were better. I'm saying today's C64x possesses an awesome keyboard by today's standards. In fact, I'm guessing typing on a C64x is a lot NICER to type on actually than an original C64.
@the7valleys I pretty much type every day for work, for the past 20 years. Just adjust your chair height accordingly. It's no less comfortable than any other keyboard.
@rasvoja The computer says Commodore. There is a Commodore Inc. , previously known as Yeahronimo Media Ventures Inc., who bought the Commodore name from Tulip Computers, and so on back to the 1994 Commodore liquidation. Commodore Inc. licensed the name to CommodoreUSA, who has by far been the most successful company to reintroduce anything meaningful under the Commodore brand. Barry Altman, the guy who pulled it all together, ran a satellite company off of original C64s - a true C= spirit!
WTF IS THAT?? ITS NOT COMMODORE!!! xD
TommyDDoom 5 hours ago
Ubuntu 11.04 on C64? How?
23amendoza 16 hours ago
I love the video, it's awesome............................but YOU DIDN'T SHOW THE BACK OF THE BOX!!! ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
But seriously, I love the computer. Rock on man.
EbyBenjamin 2 days ago in playlist C=64x Unboxing e Recensioni
love your desk :) nice and clean
TNG128MB 3 days ago
Neeeeed... one!
bernatk 1 week ago in playlist C=64x Unboxing e Recensioni
Totally awesome, me want, me kill
RombusEvilBones 1 week ago
HOW CAN YOU DO THAT WITH A 80'S C64 IMPRESSIVE
MrMilfhunter2003 2 weeks ago
while im a child myself ive had alot of experience on c64's so i want to get the extreme edition so 10+ years down the road i can show my kids what some of the first pcs LOOKED like, and if my dad really does still have his c64 i will show them what they were really like.
FragBashers 2 weeks ago
thats cute.
daafies2 2 weeks ago
@daafies2 Thanks, but what do you think about the C64x?
miklevin 5 days ago
@miklevin cute too
daafies2 5 days ago
@miklevin Six months in, and I'm loving it as much as day #1. I've come to like the cherry blue clicky keys even more than buckling springs! Getting ready to upgrade motherboard to quad-core i7.
miklevin 5 days ago
It's just not the same without the blue start-up prompt.
SiHy 2 weeks ago
@SiHy I agree. Instant-on to a command-line would be nice.
miklevin 5 days ago
@jetflock 1964? A PDP-10? You can hardly call that a PC. And $4000 for a Mac? Mac mini's are $600 and iPhone 3G's are free with a contract. Apple's are no more expensive than equivalent PCs—it's no longer Scully's Apple from the 90's.
miklevin 2 weeks ago
@miklevin if wozniak stuck with then they would be hella cheaper (atleast i know the os would, wozniak wanted to give it all out for free in the first place)
FragBashers 2 weeks ago
@FragBashers I love Woz, and probably am in spirit more aligned to him than Jobs. Problem is that there is a virtuous cycle between proprietary and open systems, with one always pushing the other forward, and so on. Without Jobs, the hardware would probably not be 1/10th as cool or as small. The proprietary folks, at lest in Job's case, are the uncompromising artists more anxious to please the world with "it just works" products than those that impress and are only usable by other techs.
miklevin 5 days ago
@miklevin this is all true, so very true. without jobs the company and their products would in no way be what they are, but he shouldn't get all the credit, but it still seems to be that apple tech is overpriced *sigh*.
FragBashers 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@miklevin this is all true, so very true. without jobs the company and their products would in no way be what they are, but he shouldn't get all the credit, but it still seems to be that apple tech is overpriced *sigh*.
FragBashers 4 days ago
If you want a cheap MAC, just buy a PC and throw The OS on it.
jetflock 2 weeks ago
@jetflock Who said I want a cheap Mac? Macs are pretty inexpensive, anyway. Just get a Mac mini and spare yourself the grief of being in the shadowy hackintosh world. Mac mini's are a very nice piece of hardware for $600. Again, anyone who has a wild hair up their but over pricing, get a Raspberry Pi with a Linux desktop for $35. If all you want is a cheap PC, you're over-paying x10 if you spent $350 on it.
miklevin 2 weeks ago
@miklevin Blah blah blah. I have had my PC since 1964. Apple computers are vanity items. $4000 to browse facebook.
jetflock 2 weeks ago
@miklevin I have a Hackintosh and surprisingly, Snow Leopard runs better than Windows and Linux on the shit poor PC I have. I would get a Mac Mini, but I don't like how Apple is now iOS-ifying the Mac. I'd probably get a Snow Leo-compatible Mac Mini secondhand.
TwiIightSparkle 1 week ago
@TwiIightSparkle I love the iOS-ifying of the Mac. Anything to get rid of messy inefficient overlapping windows generally makes me happy. And when you miss the power, just open the built-in Unix shell
miklevin 5 days ago
The original model had a bad motivator. :) Actually, the VIC-II chip had a bad sprite, and the newer 1987 motherboard had a bad serial port, so I took the VIC-II out of the newer model and seated it into the older motherboard. I had already modified the original B motherboard with a soft reset switch, so it was the easiest way to go. However, they keyboard in the old model was shot, so I had to build it into the newer machine that had been used as a games machine, rather than for programming.
pryletoncyo 2 weeks ago
I like the original keyboard on the classic Commodore 64. They're on springs, but not "buckled springs," so how do the blue switches compare to that? I love the classic design of the brown "breadbox" model, but I had to compromise with the looks/ergonomics against functionality by building my working classic Commodore 64 into a 1987 slimline case. The case looks a bit lighter in shade than my ancient motherboard B original from 1982. Though it is 30 years old now.
pryletoncyo 2 weeks ago
@pryletoncyo You're talking about the C64C that took on the look of the C128 / A500 / Atari ST / Apple II / T-99/4 / every-other-one-piece-design of the 80's? I am impressed by your modding ability, but have to reject that the slimline design is ergonomically superior to the old beige clunker. Yes, the original C64 design sits higher, but unless you rest your palms on the table while you type, just raise your chair higher.
miklevin 2 weeks ago
@miklevin Thanks for replying, but I compromised the looks and ergonomics for the functionality, so my Commodore 64 is the slimline one, but the original motherboard. I like the ergonomics and the looks of the original design. Amiga had a nice keyboard.
pryletoncyo 2 weeks ago
@pryletoncyo Regarding the keys, I can't speak for comparing to the old C64. I was an Amiga person, which used the bent-paperclip style springs. Both buckling springs and cherry blue switches blow the bent paperclip feel out of the water—still better than today's $20 keyboard rubber domes. I hear good things about the A4000's keyboard, but never had an opportunity to really use it. Most of these clicky keyboards increase productivity due to some difficult-to-describe effect of the clicking.
miklevin 2 weeks ago
@miklevin The original Commodore 64 keyboard had springs, well built, but had the problem that they were prone to wearing out. I don't know about the later keyboards, maybe better, maybe worse, I just wanted to build a working C64. I like the ergonomics of the original design, you just wrote what I was gonna write.
pryletoncyo 2 weeks ago
@miklevin Anyway, the springs in the 1982 Commodore 64 keyboard are definitely round and springy. Hard springs behind each key. The later keyboard is also spring-driven, no change to any cheaper solution, but I wonder how Commodore could afford such luxury for a basic home computer?
pryletoncyo 2 weeks ago
@miklevin I like the clicks, because it feels good. Old IBM keyboards felt like keyboards.
pryletoncyo 2 weeks ago
If you want you could use a hammer on the power button !
jnewbon00 2 weeks ago
Great video, I cut my teeth on
Y grandfather's TRS-80 Model 1 back in the day, a TRS-80 Model III in H.S. and a Timex Sinclair TS-1000 at home. Later in life I was on the waiting list for a BeBox.
HeadshotZod 2 weeks ago
@HeadshotZod Awsome! Ahhh, the BeBox, another Apple ex-patriot trying to out-Amiga the Amiga. The good ol' days.
miklevin 2 weeks ago
@rasvoja I looked at the heat readings once and I forget the numbers, but I leave it on 24/7 no problems.
miklevin 3 weeks ago
How much does it heat?
rasvoja 3 weeks ago
@HowToEatWaffles I'm curious, what makes you think so?
miklevin 3 weeks ago
OMG he's a hippy....no wonder.
HowToEatWaffles 3 weeks ago
Micro PC in a Commodore case with a hilarious pricetag that you could buy a decent gaming tower for. Well done for finding a unique way of burining your cash.
R33Racer 3 weeks ago
@R33Racer Okay, so let me get this straight: you think $600 is a hilarious pricetag for a slick daily productivity machine that is a pleasure to program on and infinitely upgradable. Yet, you think spending the same $600 on a bulky tower for gaming is a good idea? I question which of us is burning our cash, if time is worth any money. Have fun playing games!
miklevin 3 weeks ago 5
@miklevin Yup.Look at it either way, you can build a micro PC as small as (or smaller) for 2/3 of that price, probably less. Or you can just hack a micro motherboard into an existing C64 case. All your paying for is the pastics, and the massive profit they make from it. Though to be fair, after seeing Amiga and Commodore re-boots over the last 10 years, the franchise is a joke and show pgullible people would buy anything that has a boingball or a chickenlips logo at any pricetag.
R33Racer 3 weeks ago
@R33Racer I could get a Raspberry Pi micro PC for $35, so price isn't really the issue here, and even so, you're going all "it's not worth it" over what you say is 1/3 premium pricing. So according to you, that 1/3 premium that I paid isn't worth the cherry blue switches of a Das keyboard, which alone costs $100? But actually I get much more than that, when you factor in the saved time of not having to build it, plus the uniqueness of the device and brand. I guess haters just have to hate.
miklevin 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
R33Racer 3 weeks ago
@miklevin I wold usuallu agree but I have seen footage of these being made and it's nothing to write home about. It isnt painstaking at all it's just bottom half get moulded, top half gets moulded, all the other bits like keys and keyboard which doesnt look like it would cost much either. And you end up paying $350 for a case and keyboard!? I don't hate it I think it's great this exists but I feel that C= is a joke and should really do something original rather then rely on nostalgia.
R33Racer 3 weeks ago
@R33Racer Have you ever seen a Das Keyboard? They sell for over $100, because it makes typing a pleasure. C= used this component, alone responsible for at lest half the premium pricing. How so? Let's say a decent netbook costs $400. I paid $600. That means $200 is above what a comparable (non-upgradable) machine. Almost $100 goes towards the superior keys alone, leaving only about $100 to C=. This is way better than just a nostalgia thing. And I can keep putting newer/better ITX mb's into it.
miklevin 3 weeks ago
@miklevin So they are $200 now? Ok well with that sort of maths (I say mathS being British) I can see no point bothering to take the conversation further. (Though $200 would seem much more like it).
R33Racer 3 weeks ago
@R33Racer No, my C64x Basic was $600. I'm comparing that to a typical PC based on an Atom motherboard costing $400, per your assertion. That makes the C64x about $200 more than a equivalent PC. So, the allegedly wasted money amounts to $200, for which I say that $100 is applied towards exceptionally high-quality clicky keys, making what I bought only $100 more expensive than an el-cheap-o PC with a great keyboard.
miklevin 3 weeks ago
@miklevin I was wondering about that
RLock2011 1 week ago
Don't forget to re-build your market in germany!
therealdefpunk 1 month ago
What Sorcery???
Elienko11 1 month ago
IIRC load*8,1
shesnailie 1 month ago
i just knew that he would have a beard
filthinfatuateduk 1 month ago
@AlfredP237 In the world outside only Applefags and Wintards roam.
Nikotiini69 1 month ago
@AlfredP237 No, my birthday is 8/27. Barry kindly signed the C64x for my birthday.
miklevin 1 month ago
Apple didnt take the place of commodore.
mrfuzzer1 1 month ago 14
@mrfuzzer1 I beg to differ. Look at Apple's attitude towards suppliers, deep vertical integration of components, and radically custom designs. Even the very ARM processors powering iOS devices was a direct response to Commodore by a collaboration of Acorn, VLSI and Apple. Not many people know, but today's powerful low-power devices are more directly in the lineage of C= and MOS than Wintel. Commodore didn't learn from its own mistakes. Apple did, and is today what Commodore might have become.
miklevin 1 month ago
@miklevin Its speculation. You could say the same thing with Playstation, nintendo or xbox. The real question is where did the market go. I dont think Apple is the answer. I think they all went their own way. I dont see any evidence that the C market went to Apple more than any other computer brand. Remember the high point of Commodore was the C64, A500 and 1000. They all brought something better hardware wise. I dont see apple doing that today. But show me the evidence and ill change my mind.
mrfuzzer1 1 month ago
@mrfuzzer1 Nope, you can'd say the same thing with Playstation, Nintendo or XBox, because none of those are computer companies--they're game machines. And none of them designed their own CPUs. Sony at least participated in the Cell processor alliance. But nothing comes even in the ballpark of the C=/MOS/proprietary forge their own way vs entire computer industry as Apple with the ARM alliance and subsequent work as a licensee and using a low-power/low-cost chip to rock an industry. Research!
miklevin 1 month ago
@miklevin Im not sure what you mean by the ARM Alliance. If were talking about the processor thats not apple strictly some of the people involved are Samsung,and LG among others. If we are talking about the Aim Alliance then IBM was a part of that and this was prior to Commodore collapsing. I must be missing something here.
mrfuzzer1 1 month ago
@mrfuzzer1 Nope. ARM. It was Acorn, Apple and VLSI as a response to... drumroll please... Commodore's dominance in the home computer market, thanks to MOS and the 6502 and 6510 chips. Acorn engineers wanted something just as cheap as Commodore's chips, but with better graphics and not from Commodore, and brought in Apple and VLSI. The descendant from that project powered cellphones for awhile, and thanks to the iPad, started getting into cheap general computing devices... echos of MOS.
miklevin 1 month ago
@miklevin Link please, If anything intel and pc "Though not a company" is dominating the market today. But in any case if you bring up cellphones and ipads i dont see why i cant bring up games consoles. BTW if you link keep it in the present tech not upcomming or anything half baked. But still my point is and always was Where did the market go. You say to apple i say Prove it.
mrfuzzer1 2 weeks ago
@mrfuzzer1 Indeed, you can bring up game consoles. In the quarter ending December 31, the iPhone rang up sales of more than $24 billion. All of Microsoft's businesses -- Windows, Office, Xbox, enterprise, consumers, the whole shebang -- chalked up almost $21 billion in revenues. Think about that -- that's just one product from Apple, the heir to the C64 given ARM's role today as analogous to the 6502/10 in the 80's. This fact is is breathtaking... unlike anything... since... the... original C64!
miklevin 2 weeks ago
Wow, this is so not the C64 of the old days. Yet it still looks about the same.
jack002tuber 1 month ago
I was expecting you to unbox JFK
franscartoons 1 month ago
@xTIxLyricz Yeah, as much as I talk about Ubuntu and FOSS here, it's the C64x chassis that's special, with it's style, awesome keyboard and infinite upgradability via new mini ITX motherboards.
miklevin 1 month ago
@burnstagger I never said Apple was free and open but the Mac OS is more so than Windows, based on Unix Darwin which you can download the source and compile. It's just the Cocoa GUI stuff that's not, but nearly all FOSS written for Unix compiles and runs on Mac. You don't need Cygwin or any such nonsense.
miklevin 1 month ago
I hate Ubuntu it just isn't my program but I need to get me one of those
xTIxLyricz 1 month ago
@xTIxLyricz You hate Ubuntu? Then please tell what you like. No one hates Ubuntu...
Nikotiini69 1 month ago
@Nikotiini69 Many people hate Ubuntu these days. Ubuntu is finally and wisely starting to diverge from the Windows user interface that arguably was its heritage, towards something that will work better on tablet devices. Basically, it eliminates steering through drop-down menus like a video game in favor of a simple launcher and typing what you want into a search tool called Dash, reminiscent of Apple Spotlight. Many people still want their ridiculous drop-down menus, driving them towards Mint.
miklevin 1 month ago
@miklevin Ubuntu NEVER ran a Windows UI...it runs XFCE, GNOME, KDE, Unity, and one other DE that starts with an L. XFCE LOOKS like Win 3.11, but there's a BIG difference.
ChozoSR388 1 month ago
@ChozoSR388 It's not THE Windows UI. It is A windows UI. I'm talking about drop-down menus that you have to configure and endlessly steer through, only to have your mouse slip off and start again. Every install has to deal with whether and where to install things on the drop-down menu, which is never where you want, which needs to be overwritten. Ubuntu rose to popularity in part because it emulated Windows--not as much as Xandros, but still pretty extreme.
miklevin 1 month ago
@miklevin Every operating system UI we have today has been practically stolen from PARC.
purpleravenstar 1 month ago
@purpleravenstar Only the messy and rapidly going out of vogue "Oscar Madison" interfaces we have today were stolen from Xerox PARC. The clean and rapidly rising in popularity "Felix Unger" interfaces were not. And I say good riddance. Who wants overlapping easy to lose windows and video-game menus? I much prefer the clean screen-based approach of iOS that Android copied. Even Windows itself is moving away from windows via Aerosnap that tidies things up into screens, or at least panes.
miklevin 1 month ago
@Nikotiini69 I know I love Ubuntu!
ChozoSR388 1 month ago
I personally feel "meh" towards Ubuntu. Performance with regards to gaming isn't the same as running a game inside of Windows, AMD gets little love for their drivers and all of the software I like to use is for Windows only.
The only distro I do use is Joli OS on my netbook because it's an awesome cloud based Ubuntu OS, and faster/smoother than Windows on a netbook...I don't think either is better than the other generally speaking.
LordReserei01 2 weeks ago
@LordReserei01 I can understand and respect that. I'm not steering anyone towards Ubuntu as a gaming platform. I just feel that in the long-run, games will come and go. For that matter, Windows itself will come and go in that versions are so radically different now, that most of your Windows-specific expertise becomes forever more quickly obsolete. But Linux/Unix knowledge and know-how is forever.
miklevin 2 weeks ago
Apple ain't free and open. Btw what is the little personal PC thingy you have?
burnstagger 1 month ago
@mixindave1 That's a common misconception, but Macs are based on POSIX-compliant Unix called Darwin that you can get the source code to. Tightly integrated are not always so open, but I can download Xcode for free and get the gcc toolchain
miklevin 1 month ago
lol open software, apple = closed
mixindave1 1 month ago
they should leave the colour wait ....color back in the past lol
mixindave1 1 month ago
WOW !! pretty damn cool ! :D You should try the Ubuntu/Zorin OS .. Feels like windows.. But it also has a setting to make it feel like a MAC ... Pretty cool OS :)
wingnut4427 1 month ago
@wingnut4427 I'll take a look at Zorin, but I have steered through my last dropdown menu that plague Windows and seem to impose some sort of video-game criteria to finding and running your program. I am no fan of the Windows UI, and was immediately drawn to the Ubuntu Unity interface by which you just start to type the name of the app you want to run, and it ops up--similar to OS X Spotlight, which I also love. This is ultimately why I'm choosing Unity over Linux Mint as well.
miklevin 1 month ago
is this the bare bone version of it please reply and thank you
smilegeek123 2 months ago
@smilegeek123 No, this is the Basic version, a configuration no longer offered. It had a 1.8GHz Atom processor. Currently, CUSA is offering Ultimate and Extreme, which are considerably more powerful. Barebones doesn't even come with a motherboard, so if you go that route, you will have to get your own mini-ITX motherboard and other components. I suggest checking the commodore-amiga org forums for support and more details. A lot of people there build Barebones C64x's.
miklevin 2 months ago
This brought back memories.
elf150hz 2 months ago
@miklevin old only for games
Artik1993 2 months ago
omg C64 old better
Artik1993 2 months ago
@Artik1993 The old C64 is better, perhaps–but not possible to work on day-to-day today.
miklevin 2 months ago 4
Hi, sorry, where you could buy a keyboard like yours, is the page pckeyboard, a good option?
sectec25blog 2 months ago
@sectec25blog Yes, that is Unicomp, the IBM Mode-M keyboard factory that bought itself out when Lexmark got out of the keyboard business. Great story there, and great product. I highly recommend them. The Customizer 104/105 is what I'm using in the video.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin
I have to find old style ibm keyboards at the dump I am currently using a model m from 1988.
Lumotaku 2 months ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 2 months ago
I found it rather interesting that you have no windows machines in that setup. I could not imagine working at an office with not at least 1 computer that ran some sort of windows OS
thehackerz101 2 months ago
@thehackerz101 The thing the micro-server and Linksys router are on is an HP laptop with Windows XP. It's my actual work-provided PC, which I need mostly for MS Office and Outlook.
miklevin 2 months ago
I like the slick office you work in, where is it? I don't understand the comment about Apple's 'deep vertical integration'? or 'layered up advantages'? Can you pin it down to specifics you're thinking of and advantages you're given please?
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile Thanks for the office compliment. It's a digital marketing firm in Manhattan. Great place to work. Google my name for details. Regarding deep vertical integration, there's not enough room in a YouTube comment field, suffice to say, C= was so competitive by controlling, and often owning, every minuscule thing, from the CPU to the motherboard design, to the case. The Steve Jobs biography really hits home how you can make products better with such end-to-end control.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin Mmm, I agree with you, although my explanation is different: There is very little ingenuity today. Most new features are owing to increasing CPU power or memory. The Commodore machines could be classed as inventions, and they facilitated very inventive software design because they gave the programmer the keys to the system. There was integration too, a 1:1 coupling between software, CPU, support silicon and Display. These days, I think, abstraction and reusability discard ingenuity.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile The problem there is that there's massive support for stuff that has certain abstraction layers. Almost all 1-to-1 software/hardware products are set-ups for obsolescence. I'd suggest the Arduino for the closest thing that still has some life in it. Rasberry Pi has much more power, but also has much more abstraction. Just pick the minimum but best abstraction layers, and master those. That approach can be satisfying, supported, and timeless... and sometimes a bit innovative.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin How I'd defend the Commodore style of doing things (which, to be fair, was similar to how many home+games micros were designed, only Commodore's were better) is to add that whilst abstraction speeds up transitions over layers, such as porting an OpenGL app to different platforms, it acts as a layer of padding to soften the blow of transition, and in doing so softens the link between application and hardware.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@miklevin This means that whilst colossal applications can be ported, sometimes with just a few hours of input, small details which can be crucial are swept away. Programmers have noted that, whilst the 64 may be many orders of magnitude slower than a PC of today, the absence of any abstraction means the scheduling of any machine instruction can be honed down to exactly 0.000001/sec which is massively more precise than today's desktop where accuracy loses out over speed.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile That's precisely why I suggest the Arduino as where that spirit of precision, and knowing things down to the silicon-level still exists. Tons of embedded systems work with very little abstraction. They're just not reasonably available as a hacking platform to the general user, but the Arduino is. If you're trying to recapture that old feeling of knowing a piece of hardware inside and out (that's worth knowing in the general world), then the Arduino may be it.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin Actually thanks, I looked into it and I like it. I don't know if you know about it but also, XGameStation are keeping the spirit alive through a series of products and their Chameleon line reads as a response to Arduino, only with 200MIPS of CPU performance, suggesting about 500x the power of C64. Although they all seem to fall down a little in the graphics department since it is possibly harder to source surface-mount GPUs than CPUs?
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile I just added XGameStation to my InstaPaper to read more about. Yes, these open source hardware projects usually lack graphics-power, but not because of lack-of-surface mount (Tegra in the Zune, PowerVR in iPhones, etc.) but because those components are highly proprietary and force you to work through API's. My favorite is Raspberry Pi, an Arduino-sized & priced device capable of running Quake 3 in 1080p. But those graphics are the only non-open part of the device (a blob library).
miklevin 2 months ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile Well, it sounds like I have a lot more reading to do! But I think you may be introducing a new concept into the discussion regarding understanding things down to the metal. There's understanding, and then there's CHANGING what's going on with the metal (termed Application-specific integrated circuit or ASIC). The Zync chip you discuss appears to be an ARM Cortex plus programmability to get your app into the metal (vs. software). That C= feeling was just about the understanding part.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin Yes, you're quite right, forget I even mentioned it. : )
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile Oh, don't be sore :p It surely is cool technology, and maybe even the future of hardware. But you'd have to be an engineer to start out on the thing. If you want to play with things down to the metal, it's best these days just to hop on the Arduino bandwagon. Very solid spec. Very simple hardware. The board design is open source, and all component chips are available in open hardware versions.
miklevin 2 months ago
Well it costs too much for just a cheap modern PC inside a case very similar to C64. While it looks cool it's easier and way cheaper to get a netbook and install ubuntu with VICE - a portable C64 that just looks a bit less like original :)
St33lR0b0t 2 months ago
@St33lR0b0t Yes, but try using that netbook as your main day-to-day work computer. Your fingers will cramp. You will go cross-eyed. And when it comes time for a new computer, you have to throw it out and get a new one. With the C64x, you can upgrade forever, making each subsequent computer cheaper. And you are on a keyboard, which in my mind is like using a Herman Miller Aeron chair -- versus a netbook, which is more like a bar stool.
miklevin 2 months ago
Nice video. Nice machine. Although I really miss booting up rom Basic in seconds.
So an old Commodore employee.. Too bad. I sure wish I had worked for this company too except for the Jack attacks... LOL! Apparently you missed those too!.
Have a great time with your upgraded C64.
TookMe20min2findThis 2 months ago
@TookMe20min2findThis Yes, I missed those, but I kind of regret it. I'm reading Steve Job's biography, and have read about his philosophy of preventing the bozo-explosion and how his explosive personality was a filter (B's don't survive). I think the Jack Attacks served a very similar purpose, and I feel I missed the "real" Commodore by not being there during those days. I feel I may have been amongst a great many mikelev.in/poetry/bees/
miklevin 2 months ago
As someone who actually worked with computer from the era (ti99/4a and coco) I diffidently get it. Working with computers was way different back then. Programming was way different, learning how these computers ticked was way different. You had to either wait for a magazine article or a book to come out. There was no Internet. Heck, there were no hard drives. You did it all on floppies, cartridges or even more retro, cassette tape! It's about feel and feeling elite(tm)
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@mrRhwalden That spirit survives today, perhaps in a less pioneering form, but still quite exciting in embedded systems, and a new breed of $25 nano-computers ready to flood the market. I've been using the SheevaPlug for this, but am actually quite jazzed over a project called Raspberry Pi about to go into production. It's billed as the UK's solution to computer literacy not being REAL computer literacy... i.e. the hacker spirit, and understanding things down to the metal.
miklevin 2 months ago
Having access to the source code is great, but its not as great as it use to be when you actually ran the source code through an interpreter, and could type LIST to view it and change it. Now, its pointless, because even if you can download it from source forge, it'd take you weeks to figure out how to set up the development environment the guy used to compile the bullshit. And Linux isn't that great - its ugly and rancid underneath the hood, slapped together and held together by duct tape.
cobrachoppergirl 2 months ago
@cobrachoppergirl That criticism is a common attempt discredit Linux for the stunning collaborative product of humankind that it is - running everything from the majority of the world's supercomputers to the majority of it's home WiFi routers... and probably about half of the world's websites. That sort of trusted 24/7 reliability just doesn't jive with the picture you're trying to draw. And if you're compiling Linux from scratch, it takes weeks to grok it all yesterday, today or tomorrow.
miklevin 2 months ago
Impressive Linux Beard (tm). Now promoted to Ubuntu-on-C-64 Beard (tm).
A PC in a non-original-C64 case is a completely pointless exercise to me. Unless you plan to sneak in some video gaming during work hours, I could see that.
BaldingEagle51 2 months ago
@BaldingEagle51 Nope, not much of a gamer, and the original C64's keys don't have a good enough typing feel for me. The C64x is for making my daily work-day more pleasant, and to have a machine at the office where I can complete my move to free and open source software. Purely a productivity machine.
miklevin 2 months ago
GEEK!!!!!!!! I mean that in the best possible way, of course. I still have a Commodore 64, Vic-20 and Apple ][e. I'm definitely going to get a 64x. Thanks for the post.
lanfisher 2 months ago
@lanfisher You are welcome, and thank you. It's nice to hear something positive. I love the geek-cred halo this thing radiates around the office.
miklevin 2 months ago
I love your office/nerdcave layout.
MrSteJDM 2 months ago
"Think outside the box". By buying overpriced, slow PC in nostalgic case?
OhFishyFish 2 months ago
@OhFishyFish Sure, you pay some premium for the nostalgia, but yes, definitely. The competitive advantage of working on a cool and superior keyboard that makes working subtly more satisfying, is definitely thinking outside the box. And is it really over-priced, once you take the $100 or so a Das Keyboard costs and add it to the $400 or so a decent netbook costs? I do hope in time they will make it less expensive, but it's not nearly as clear-cut as your comment implies.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin Correct me if I'm wrong, but $400 is a price for keyboard and case only and basic Atom configuration costs $999. I can only presume that $400 Commodore keyboard is very, very superior over all other mechanical keyboards on the market for 20% of this price.
OhFishyFish 2 months ago
@OhFishyFish I got the basic Atom configuration for $607.31 (including shipping, etc.). Round that to $600. Subtract $400 for a netbook, and another $100 for a Das Keyboard (yes, it's that good). That leaves $100 premium that I paid for all the work done to bring back the brand, do the casework and engineering. It's a great deal for the wonderful value and enjoyment I'm getting out of it. I'll be upgrading it with future ITX motherboards long into the future, so I consider it a great purchase.
miklevin 2 months ago
Looks nice indeed, the one thing(Cosmetic) i think is missing is the C= graphics on the side of the keys !
thumbs up.
Dreamlgider 2 months ago
Are you keeping up with the Commodore, cos the Commodore is keeping up with you..
bazfanv2 3 months ago
This is a decent effort but at the end of the day it's still just a pc more or less, whether it have windows or linux on it doesn't change that.
Bottom line, if it doesn't have proprietary hw with unique chips that say MOS on it, it's not a commodore. If you turn it on and you don't see a ready prompt with a blinking cursor, it's not a C64!
What they should be spending their efforts on is to revive say the C65 and recreate that, it's where commodore left off instead of making pc clones.
SinistaN 3 months ago
@SinistaN A few corrections about the "spirit" of the C64. 1) Yes, C= owned MOS, but MOS was purchased by C= and the 6502 chip was a clone of the Motorola 6800, simply made cheaper with fewer registers. 2) Yes, C64 did instant-on, but it was only to a slightly re-worked version of Microsoft BASIC (proven in court). You'd have an argument if you talked about the VIC-II and SID chips. But frankly, I was unimpressed by the original C64. I was an Amiga fan. I like the new C64 for the style and feel!
miklevin 3 months ago
@miklevin Your argument is basically that because it has a c64 breadbox case and a clicky keyboard that makes it a c64. It doesn't matter if I left out the vic-2 or sid, the point is the hw that made a c64 is not there it's been replaced by a pc. It's not even close. So as far as that goes you could just have an empty old breadbox shell and original keyboard, interface it to a usb and use that on your pc with an emulator. Is it still a 64? If they had used a c=1 board it would have been closer
SinistaN 2 months ago
@SinistaN The notion that something can't be modernized because the original used kooky proprietary hardware is silly. The original C64 had what it had inside because it was CHEAPER that way. The modern C64x has what it has inside, because it's cheaper that way too. If Jack Tramiel himself were making the decisions, I'm sure he would have done something similar. Kooky proprietary hardware may have been more powerful and cheaper back then, but not anymore.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin Sure anyone can make a new computer and call it what they want. I just don't think it makes much sense to call it a c64. What's the new "amiga" going to be? Another clone of what's in the 64x? What is the point? Things can evolve sure but that was already spearheaded by commodore themselves with the C65 project, cmd and jeri with the commodore one. Now if they offered a recreated C65 (which is entirely possible), I'll be the first in line to buy. I just don't get c64 pc clone, sorry
SinistaN 2 months ago
@SinistaN "Sure anyone can make a new computer and call it what they want"... uh, not without the rights, they can't. Merely navigating those rights was a huge accomplishment here. And why the C65? That was canned for the Amiga, which was really an Atari-engineer accomplishment, anyway. Plus, C= itself made most of its money on PCs - the PC20, PC40, etc. when they competed with Tandem computers over 486's in their heyday. Why not bring back the beige boxes? Those were "real" C= products too.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin You have to have rights to create a new pc? I don't think so. People build their own pc's all the time, and can sell them too. Sure they can't slap a "commodore" name on it, but why would they want to? If this works for you then great..it's your money after all. And I get to some degree the all in one computer in a keyboard spirit angle, I just don't think you need the c64 on it to accomplish it. Sorry but /me predicts this fad will fade more quickly than the c64 and plus4 did
SinistaN 2 months ago
@SinistaN *c16 that is, not c64
SinistaN 2 months ago
@SinistaN So, there is no value in brand, nostalgia or style? That's fine; I know the C64x isn't for everyone. As for me, I was deeply connected with C=, having worked there, led a local users group and spoken at shareholder meetings. This connects me to those days, suits my particular typing preference, and can be upgraded indefinitely into the future. You are entitled to believe that there is no value in that, but as for me, I am surprised and delighted how well it turned out.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin style is fine, brand is fine, nostalgia is fine. what im saying is, do you really need to call it a C64 or vic. didn't you say you were more of an amiga fan than the c=64? So why not get this in a new amiga pc instead? I just don't get the vic or 64 angle for what is a pc. Now, if they put out this new amiga with a ppc board and os4.1 by default, they may just have something.
SinistaN 2 months ago
@SinistaN Even though I was an Amiga fan, there's nothing cool and distinctive about any of the Amiga's cases, except the original Amiga 1000. Plus, there was so much special and ahead of its time going on inside the Amiga, I would always be disappointed. The C64 was about on par with other computers of its time--just cheaper. However, the case was unlike anything else, and is deeply ingrained in the world's psyche as the most successful computer of all time. It makes for the BEST retro case.
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin I'll agree with you there. I love my breadbox C64 and will always have one. Even after the 64c came out I still preferred the original recipe 64 case, just because I'ts what I first had and what I was acclimated to.
SinistaN 2 months ago
@SinistaN Well, I guess we agree on something. The A1000 was cool due to how the detached keyboard slid perfectly under the pizza box design, but everything after that was just that generic Apple / Atari / Acorn, one-piece design look. The C64, and actually the VIC-20 first, had a one-piece-design unlike any other, that has the classic feel of a Shelby Ford Mustang or something that encapsulates the entire dawn of the home computer era at a glance, and that's what I love here. And it's usable!
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin I'll agree with you on that too actually, I too liked the hideaway keyboard compartment, not that I had an A1000 I had a B2000, ugly and pc like as it was. No longer have it and have an A500 now just for games and again that nostalgia thing.
SinistaN 2 months ago
@SinistaN Alt + Alt + Shift + Shift + F1 + eject DF0: + left mouse button + insert DF0:
miklevin 2 months ago
@miklevin unfortunately they don't make computers bios with easter eggs like that anymore, at least none that I know about. they were right about commodore though, although there's no guarantee atari wouldn't have done the same. atari f'd up the lynx (epyx handy also created by a few of the original amiga team members), and that wasn't too long after the amiga.
SinistaN 2 months ago
@miklevin
Thanks to its older brother the Vic 20 that paved its way. The original C64 case is the Vic 20's case.
summer20105707 2 months ago
@summer20105707 Yep, the VIC20 was where the design first appeared, or more technically correct, the VIC-1001 in Japan. I'm still trying to get the story straight of who actually designed the case. The net is full of stories about Al Charpentier and the two Bob's doing the chips and circuit board, but there's not much on the case, except vague mention of contributions by the Japanese team. I'd be curious to learn.
miklevin 2 months ago
@MadFranko008 I agree Commodore played an important role in the home computer industry, but your tone and conclusions are baffling. I focus on what I focus on because it is an unboxing and the quality of the typing is the irreplaceable (high quality), but you can put any mini-ITX motherboard in there and any operating system on it.
miklevin 3 months ago
doritostheking Really, do you have first-hand knowledge that they went for a Windows OEM deal? And what do you mean regarding using the images on it? Please elaborate.
miklevin 3 months ago
Gawd... that is sad...
You seemed more interested in having some nice "clicky" keys rather than what the actual computer could do itself...
Mind you it is after all nothing more than an overpriced PC running a C64 emulator in a fake C64 case, so I guess "clicky" keys is the only real highlight of buying such an overpriced piece of junk... :-)
Oh well, it's your money that was wasted I suppose, I'm off now to play with my genuine C64 made by the REAL Commodore... :-)
MadFranko008 3 months ago
@MadFranko008
Obviously, it's just an overpriced PC in a fake C64 case. Everybody knows that. The look and feel of the thing ARE the only advantages. So it makes sense that he spends time testing the keyboard feel. That was one of the things I was interested in - and it's good to get the opinion of somebody who uses a buckling spring keyboard.
I wouldn't get one of these things myself, but I wouldn't put him down for trying to revive the feelings of the "good old days". (however fake)
mrAmiga500 3 months ago
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MadFranko008 3 months ago
@mrAmiga500
@mrAmiga500
He could have saved a hell of a lot of money if all he wanted to do was "revive the feelings of the good old days" and bought a genuine C64 from eBay... ;-)
Been (and still am) a Commodore user for over 30 years Vic 20, C64 & Amiga, Barry Altman and his fake CUSA are a disgrace to the legacy of real the Commodore and the important role they played in shaping the world of home computing... ;-)
If folk want to pay silly money for "clicky" keys then that's their fault.
MadFranko008 3 months ago
@miklevin I'm currently trying out the Commodore OS Vision beta on my PC. It's full of retro goodness sounds, effects (if i can get them to work) and emulators from the Commodore and Amigas of yesteryear. linuxbookpro.tumblr.com
joe4ska 3 months ago in playlist C=64x Unboxing e Recensioni
@OBSysteme Platforms are all well and good, but even Macs these days are Unix boxes running on x86 hardware, so you have to really ask yourself what a platform is anymore. What this device is, is a chassis you can be excited about because of the nostalgia and a superior keyboard. Sure, you can install Linux on anything, but show me any other manufacturer with the gumption to throw their support behind FOSS and thumb their nose at Microsoft as the DEFAULT set-up.
miklevin 3 months ago
@miklevin They're only doing it because they can't get a windows OEM licence. Hell, they can't even get a real website. Or Permission to use the images on it. It's pretty sad.
doritostheking 3 months ago
@OBSysteme I don't miss the original C64 at all. I miss Commodore, and the C64 happens to symbolically represent it more strongly than anything else--even the Amiga, which was my true computer love. What's so cool here is that unlike nearly every other computer manufacturer who eventually gets bullied into bundling Windows, Commodore has gone a different route and is aligning itself with one of the few things left on this world in computing worth having a passion for: Linux and the FOSS movement
miklevin 3 months ago
@OBSysteme Yes, I was never a big fan of the original C64, believe it or not. I am an Amiga guy. But the C64 case is much more distinctive with way more geek cred. I'm not making any arguments that this is a throwback to a time when keyboards were better. I'm saying today's C64x possesses an awesome keyboard by today's standards. In fact, I'm guessing typing on a C64x is a lot NICER to type on actually than an original C64.
miklevin 3 months ago
It looks way too high to be good for your wrists. There apparently was no carpal tunnel syndrome in the '70s....
the7valleys 3 months ago
@the7valleys I pretty much type every day for work, for the past 20 years. Just adjust your chair height accordingly. It's no less comfortable than any other keyboard.
miklevin 3 months ago
Actualy, its CommodoreUSA C64. They love to fake names for retro mania
rasvoja 3 months ago
@rasvoja The computer says Commodore. There is a Commodore Inc. , previously known as Yeahronimo Media Ventures Inc., who bought the Commodore name from Tulip Computers, and so on back to the 1994 Commodore liquidation. Commodore Inc. licensed the name to CommodoreUSA, who has by far been the most successful company to reintroduce anything meaningful under the Commodore brand. Barry Altman, the guy who pulled it all together, ran a satellite company off of original C64s - a true C= spirit!
miklevin 3 months ago
I love watching you slide back your keyboard to make space for the Commadore with total disregard for the items behind. :P
joe4ska 3 months ago
@OBSysteme I'm not sure how much a C64 would cost now.
(I just installed a C64 emulator as well... I can't buy a C64 just yet.)
TwiIightSparkle 3 months ago
@OBSysteme Yeah, I don't think anyone would be using a C64 as a real PC. This is for those who MISS the C64 but like the Windows/Linux OSes.
TwiIightSparkle 3 months ago
No C64 style bios logo?? U_U
magnus87 3 months ago