@dontshakeme I always try to play "hearing" how music would be sung with the human voice. I never play in a pedestrian manner. Of course, the wonderful tone of my Bösendorfer helps allot. I have used this aria many times to demonstrate for friends the form of a Baroque, da-capo aria. I regret the lost of the Baoque opera form which showed indivdual interpretations on the repeats.
@PiroozAzDirooz I appreciate your request. I have thought that friends might enjoy hearing the piano transciption; however, I have no plans to record one. I prefer everything to be high quality, and I do not have the recording equipment or experience to do that at this time.
Vivica and her director carefully studied and determined what notes to be sung to approximate as best as possbile the Baroque interpretative custom. Her voice and singing style, however, are the antithesis of the Baroque voice, even though listeners who are familiar only with the common 20th-21st-century singing style do not seem to notice or mind. This version from the film "Farinelli" is very popular because of its dramatic nature.
That is information that you can research on your own from several sources, more than would fit in this small space. A good starting point would be for you to go to the website MaleSopranos and read the overview The High Male Voice, An Introduction. There are other postings both in Articles and in Forums that might be helpful to you.
I've made my extensive research and I can tell you for sure that the castrati did not sing like counter tenor or sopranists do, if anything they sang like something between a soprano treble and a mezzo soprano, they used a chest-like sound throughout the middle voice and kept the middle voice sound as high as A5.
You are absolutely correct. The major problems in approximating the castrato voice today (other than that we do not produce castrati) are 1) the difference in physical formation of the voice and chest, and 2) the different training and approach to singing. ( A few countertenors are better than expected.) For these reasons, it is interesting to hear Russell Oberlin and Jochen Kowalski recordings, who do not sound like most male singers. Even so, we have nothing like Farinelli or Caffarelli today.
I would love to find a score of this with all the lovely high notes. The range (as performed) suits my voice perfectly and its hard to find a good song that showcases both my upper and lower range without sitting in my "break".
I'm sure there probably isn't an exact score of this with all the ornamentals but its one of my favorite songs on the movie (which I own and have watched countless times - with a bottle of vino [the only way to watch movies like this]).
A score for this aria with all the vocal ornamentations may have been written for the Farinelli film, or some other person may have written it down after hearing the soundtrack. As you know, original scores were outlines, and the singers were expected to improvise, e.g., on the da capo. I enjoy this particular interpretation, too; so I have learned by ear to play it on the piano. You may not need a full score.
Well Dunno Anyting about music except that It´s Beutifull. You seem to Know a lot about this ..do You do it as a hobby or do you do it profesionally. Do You have a CD .. were can I get one?
I have made a life-long study of serious music and, for the last several years, have specialized and lectured about the Baroque, castrato voice and the voices that might approximate their sound today. If you mean by "hobby" that I do not accept money for my efforts, no, I do not accept money for sharing with others. The soundrack CD for the film "Falrinelli" still is available on several sights such as Amazon, and it includes complete arias other than "Alto Giove," which is only Part A.
Not a boy singing. Please read the directly previous postings: they explain how the vocal track was made. No human known to us today can sing this aria as originally intended by the composer; it was meant for a castrato. Some singers have made approximations of it with varying degrees of success or failure, but none has the physical qualities or extensive training to duplicate the castrato voice.
It wascounter-tenor Derek Lee Ragin and soprano Ewa Godlewska's two singing voices blended together (in editing process) that served as the singing voice for Farinelli in the 1994 movie...the results were fabulous!
It's a Counter-Tenor and Soprano voice fused together. They gave the low notes to the tenor, and the high notes to the soprano, and did other things to make it sound "natural". Lots of computers involved :P
You cannot really attribute the voice to either of the singers, to be honest...
The huge problem with those Vivica recordings is that, although she is a professional singer, her voice is the total opposite of the required Baroque voice. She has a very heavy warble and a loose technique (common with today's singers), which is the antithesis of what is required. I tried listening in small doses and then finally discarded the CD.
In Baroque vocal music, especially with rapid, highly ornamented passages, hitting each note precisely was essential to express the composers' musical intentions and also to avoid a muddied sound by having an unfocused voice and sliding from note to note, e.g., up to higher notes. Singing style changed in the 20th century for most singers (perhaps a combination of less demanding training + an attempt to be "more dramatic), with noteable exceptions like Gundula Janowitz and Maria Cristina Kiehr.
I know what you mean! When I listen to her, I can't tell the difference between a plain note and a trill because of that horrible warble. Her singing is definitely not "on the breath".
This has got to be one of my favorite baroque arias. All puristic objections aside, this rendition is very pleasing to the ear. It's beautiful, touching and just plain marvelous. It has everything you could want in a baroque aria and, most important of all, it demands a top knotch musician to carry it off.
Of course you realize that the original score was merely an outline and that this particular interpretation with the especially pleasing da capo is unique to the film score. I enjoy this interpretation so much that I have played it frequently on the piano for friends. I have heard other performances with far less satisfaction. The voices are serviceable; however, a recording with superior voices such as Andreas Scholl and Maria Cristina Kiehr would have been far more pleasing and authentic.
I'd take Manzotti or Raunig over Scholl personally but, I do take your meaning. The score was written at a time when composers hadn't decided they had to micromanage their performers' work. Bet Maniaci does a fair rendition of this too.
I was blessed with (or cursed with) very clear, acute hearing; and I am able to discern every nuance of a person's voice. I have listened to the 2 performers that you mentioned, and there were aspects to their voices and technique that disappointed me, but never with Scholl. I went to a live performance with Scholl last evening and spoke with him. The music critic reviewed the performance in detail, agreed, and stated, "It is easy to believe that he is greatest countertenor in the world."
In regard to Michael Maniaci, I have listened to him live and also on CD's & DVDs. His being a male soprano is notable enough, and he will have his place in the opera world. His voice does not have the Baroque sound, however. It has a heavy vibrato, e.g., on the higher & louder notes; and his timbre is more feminine: he admits to "sounding like Susan Graham." David Daniels has contributed much to the opera world, but his voice has similar non-Baroque qualities. Husson too seldom sings.
Scholl's popularity and high regard is known to me. I loved his Ombra Mai Fu and some of the arias in his Senesino CD. There's just something about the way he does his lower notes that I don't like. I don't fault his technique, however since it's flawlessly 1700-1750 and his higher notes are rich and creamy sounding; very velvety.
I noticed what you are referring to when I heard him live. My guess is that controlling the voice and wind is so much more complicated for a countertenor that the result is that he has less wind and power in his lower notes. His upper notes were quite clear and strong. A full-voiced castrato would have a great advantage.
Honestly though, this aria deserves the attentions of an endocrinological castrato with a very boyish timbre. Do you think Marian could pull this off?
I do not "hear" this aria the way you apparently do, e.g. after reading the lyrics. I feel Radu's voice is less suited for opera and more suited for less dramatic works e.g. cantate. I still think that a morph of Andreas Scholl with Maria Cristina Kiehr would be the best that we could hope for at this time. Soprano Patrick Husson might be able to do it all by himself; however, he hardly performs, and I have not heard him do opera arias. Aris Christofellis could but with an unnatural sound.
I recall seeing a comment by you stating that you're a musician yourself. If you ever try for this Baroque tuning, it's A = 415 as opposed to 440. In truth, you could find variations even on this back in the 17th and 18th centuries. Germans liked A = 398 & Italians liked A = 455 (much brighter!) So, don't take 415 as standard because it wasn't.
@CubbyNH of course that is not particularly true. In Italy for example it was a semi tone higher than a=440 and in France it was a whole tone lower...
That comment is historically very ungrateful since Ragin is tremendously important, having been one of the first to put the operatic big countertenor voice on the map. I admit it is odd to use too much chest voice in a film that is supposed to be about a castrato, but that is for the director and the musical advisor of the film to decide and there is nothing wrong with Ragin's technique per se in that respect
I think Derek Lee Ragin is a fine musician... And historically very important, since he was one of the first big voiced countertenors to appear (Kowalski excluded, who was a difficult man) and he put the american school on the map...I accept the oddity of using chest voice excessively when trying to portray a castrato but that was for the director and the musical advisor of the film to notice, since there is nothing wrong with Ragin's technique per se in that respect.
(For cuicuimusic) Yes, you are correct. I assume you read my description at the top. This is the first and only production of mine where I feel that the voices are less than excellent, and I hesitated to upload it; however, the aria and the da capo interpretation are interesting enough for me to have done so. I enjoy the aria enough for me to play both the orchestra and voice parts on the piano.
Bravo et vive Le Farinelli et Seniore Broschi Barvo!
PiroozAzDirooz 2 months ago
I love you for uploading this precious piece of my very heart!!!!!!! <3
dontshakeme 4 months ago
@dontshakeme I play this aria, with this particular da-capo interpretation, on my Bösendorfer grand piano almost every day.
sfkcbf 4 months ago 2
Comment removed
dontshakeme 4 months ago
@sfkcbf I have been looking for this libretto for about 18 years!!! wish I could listen to your play....
dontshakeme 4 months ago
@dontshakeme I always try to play "hearing" how music would be sung with the human voice. I never play in a pedestrian manner. Of course, the wonderful tone of my Bösendorfer helps allot. I have used this aria many times to demonstrate for friends the form of a Baroque, da-capo aria. I regret the lost of the Baoque opera form which showed indivdual interpretations on the repeats.
sfkcbf 4 months ago
@sfkcbf Can you do a Youtube of your performance please? :)
PiroozAzDirooz 2 months ago
@PiroozAzDirooz I appreciate your request. I have thought that friends might enjoy hearing the piano transciption; however, I have no plans to record one. I prefer everything to be high quality, and I do not have the recording equipment or experience to do that at this time.
sfkcbf 2 months ago
very interesting to follow the score! thank you for this work!
kikivolauvent1 8 months ago
Castrati also didn't need as many rests - without the usual hormone levels, their bodies developed to have an enormous lung capacity.
Taenyr 1 year ago
nice posting very interesting score and idea
geisterbahn1 1 year ago
i`ve never seen such a wrong partiture. this is not even the original key. .. but thanks for posting...
tastibasti 1 year ago
Its Sober openning as i love beginning in that way at all baroque style! its takes all the attention that you have to listen very carefully
Bravo!
whomakemefeel 1 year ago
I think the best version is Vivica Genaux's
primohomme 1 year ago
Vivica and her director carefully studied and determined what notes to be sung to approximate as best as possbile the Baroque interpretative custom. Her voice and singing style, however, are the antithesis of the Baroque voice, even though listeners who are familiar only with the common 20th-21st-century singing style do not seem to notice or mind. This version from the film "Farinelli" is very popular because of its dramatic nature.
sfkcbf 1 year ago
@sfkcbf
What is the baroque style then according to your sources?
primohomme 1 year ago
That is information that you can research on your own from several sources, more than would fit in this small space. A good starting point would be for you to go to the website MaleSopranos and read the overview The High Male Voice, An Introduction. There are other postings both in Articles and in Forums that might be helpful to you.
sfkcbf 1 year ago
@sfkcbf
I've made my extensive research and I can tell you for sure that the castrati did not sing like counter tenor or sopranists do, if anything they sang like something between a soprano treble and a mezzo soprano, they used a chest-like sound throughout the middle voice and kept the middle voice sound as high as A5.
primohomme 1 year ago
You are absolutely correct. The major problems in approximating the castrato voice today (other than that we do not produce castrati) are 1) the difference in physical formation of the voice and chest, and 2) the different training and approach to singing. ( A few countertenors are better than expected.) For these reasons, it is interesting to hear Russell Oberlin and Jochen Kowalski recordings, who do not sound like most male singers. Even so, we have nothing like Farinelli or Caffarelli today.
sfkcbf 1 year ago
@sfkcbf
Check out my post on Oberlin's "Ombra Cara" with a cadenza from D3 to F5.
primohomme 1 year ago
@primohomme it would be great to know what sources you based your research on. Thank you for the information.
mistatomsom 1 year ago
@mistatomsom
I have many books about the castrati and many articles I've collected, also you should check out the documentary "CASTRATO" from BBC I uploaded.
primohomme 1 year ago
@primohomme Well, you gave me no actual titles. My partner is one of the authorities on castrati, so I'm intrigued where you got your information...
mistatomsom 1 year ago
I would love to find a score of this with all the lovely high notes. The range (as performed) suits my voice perfectly and its hard to find a good song that showcases both my upper and lower range without sitting in my "break".
I'm sure there probably isn't an exact score of this with all the ornamentals but its one of my favorite songs on the movie (which I own and have watched countless times - with a bottle of vino [the only way to watch movies like this]).
I heart opera <3
GucciSmoochies 2 years ago
A score for this aria with all the vocal ornamentations may have been written for the Farinelli film, or some other person may have written it down after hearing the soundtrack. As you know, original scores were outlines, and the singers were expected to improvise, e.g., on the da capo. I enjoy this particular interpretation, too; so I have learned by ear to play it on the piano. You may not need a full score.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
Well Dunno Anyting about music except that It´s Beutifull. You seem to Know a lot about this ..do You do it as a hobby or do you do it profesionally. Do You have a CD .. were can I get one?
javoli001 2 years ago
I have made a life-long study of serious music and, for the last several years, have specialized and lectured about the Baroque, castrato voice and the voices that might approximate their sound today. If you mean by "hobby" that I do not accept money for my efforts, no, I do not accept money for sharing with others. The soundrack CD for the film "Falrinelli" still is available on several sights such as Amazon, and it includes complete arias other than "Alto Giove," which is only Part A.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
Just Bought It. HAHAH.
I use to think classical music was boring But hey Thats the new havy metal. I showed It to my friends and now we are all buying the CD.
You should make more music like these ...Id Buy It ALL ...
javoli001 2 years ago
baroque music is just like heavy metal indeed!
gustavojoris 2 years ago
is this really a boy singig this song?!
hbsler 2 years ago
Not a boy singing. Please read the directly previous postings: they explain how the vocal track was made. No human known to us today can sing this aria as originally intended by the composer; it was meant for a castrato. Some singers have made approximations of it with varying degrees of success or failure, but none has the physical qualities or extensive training to duplicate the castrato voice.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
was there a particular note where they start mixing the voices?
margotlorena 2 years ago
Actually in this aria, notes were not mixed; the aria sections (A-B-A) were: A with Ragin, B & A with Godlewska.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
It wascounter-tenor Derek Lee Ragin and soprano Ewa Godlewska's two singing voices blended together (in editing process) that served as the singing voice for Farinelli in the 1994 movie...the results were fabulous!
AmericanEvita 2 years ago
who is this marvellous singer???
gitzolinick 2 years ago
It's Derek Lee Ragin, contra-tenor
fromheretoglory 2 years ago
is he the one that sings in the Farinelli film? The timbre is very similar!
micioamilano 2 years ago
Well, yes,... :O)
fromheretoglory 2 years ago
yes, he is
skyriver83 2 years ago
It's a Counter-Tenor and Soprano voice fused together. They gave the low notes to the tenor, and the high notes to the soprano, and did other things to make it sound "natural". Lots of computers involved :P
You cannot really attribute the voice to either of the singers, to be honest...
GoBogi 2 years ago
The first I heard this piece was in a CD by Vivica Geneaux.
BayAreaBiker2001 2 years ago
The huge problem with those Vivica recordings is that, although she is a professional singer, her voice is the total opposite of the required Baroque voice. She has a very heavy warble and a loose technique (common with today's singers), which is the antithesis of what is required. I tried listening in small doses and then finally discarded the CD.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
What do you mean by "loose" technique?
Greatheil 2 years ago
In Baroque vocal music, especially with rapid, highly ornamented passages, hitting each note precisely was essential to express the composers' musical intentions and also to avoid a muddied sound by having an unfocused voice and sliding from note to note, e.g., up to higher notes. Singing style changed in the 20th century for most singers (perhaps a combination of less demanding training + an attempt to be "more dramatic), with noteable exceptions like Gundula Janowitz and Maria Cristina Kiehr.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
I know what you mean! When I listen to her, I can't tell the difference between a plain note and a trill because of that horrible warble. Her singing is definitely not "on the breath".
forallyouknow 2 years ago 2
This has got to be one of my favorite baroque arias. All puristic objections aside, this rendition is very pleasing to the ear. It's beautiful, touching and just plain marvelous. It has everything you could want in a baroque aria and, most important of all, it demands a top knotch musician to carry it off.
philomelodia 2 years ago
Of course you realize that the original score was merely an outline and that this particular interpretation with the especially pleasing da capo is unique to the film score. I enjoy this interpretation so much that I have played it frequently on the piano for friends. I have heard other performances with far less satisfaction. The voices are serviceable; however, a recording with superior voices such as Andreas Scholl and Maria Cristina Kiehr would have been far more pleasing and authentic.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
I'd take Manzotti or Raunig over Scholl personally but, I do take your meaning. The score was written at a time when composers hadn't decided they had to micromanage their performers' work. Bet Maniaci does a fair rendition of this too.
philomelodia 2 years ago
I was blessed with (or cursed with) very clear, acute hearing; and I am able to discern every nuance of a person's voice. I have listened to the 2 performers that you mentioned, and there were aspects to their voices and technique that disappointed me, but never with Scholl. I went to a live performance with Scholl last evening and spoke with him. The music critic reviewed the performance in detail, agreed, and stated, "It is easy to believe that he is greatest countertenor in the world."
sfkcbf 2 years ago
In regard to Michael Maniaci, I have listened to him live and also on CD's & DVDs. His being a male soprano is notable enough, and he will have his place in the opera world. His voice does not have the Baroque sound, however. It has a heavy vibrato, e.g., on the higher & louder notes; and his timbre is more feminine: he admits to "sounding like Susan Graham." David Daniels has contributed much to the opera world, but his voice has similar non-Baroque qualities. Husson too seldom sings.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
Scholl's popularity and high regard is known to me. I loved his Ombra Mai Fu and some of the arias in his Senesino CD. There's just something about the way he does his lower notes that I don't like. I don't fault his technique, however since it's flawlessly 1700-1750 and his higher notes are rich and creamy sounding; very velvety.
philomelodia 2 years ago
I noticed what you are referring to when I heard him live. My guess is that controlling the voice and wind is so much more complicated for a countertenor that the result is that he has less wind and power in his lower notes. His upper notes were quite clear and strong. A full-voiced castrato would have a great advantage.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
Honestly though, this aria deserves the attentions of an endocrinological castrato with a very boyish timbre. Do you think Marian could pull this off?
philomelodia 2 years ago
I do not "hear" this aria the way you apparently do, e.g. after reading the lyrics. I feel Radu's voice is less suited for opera and more suited for less dramatic works e.g. cantate. I still think that a morph of Andreas Scholl with Maria Cristina Kiehr would be the best that we could hope for at this time. Soprano Patrick Husson might be able to do it all by himself; however, he hardly performs, and I have not heard him do opera arias. Aris Christofellis could but with an unnatural sound.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
Nice job! :-)
fromheretoglory 3 years ago
Well I think this is beautiful.
chris
mradaChris 3 years ago
I have a curious thought. Why is it that typically the song is sung one semitone lower than what is written?
chris
mradaChris 2 years ago
Baroque pitch was differnt than modern pitch, 1/2 step lower than modern.
CubbyNH 2 years ago
That makes sense.
c.
mradaChris 2 years ago
I recall seeing a comment by you stating that you're a musician yourself. If you ever try for this Baroque tuning, it's A = 415 as opposed to 440. In truth, you could find variations even on this back in the 17th and 18th centuries. Germans liked A = 398 & Italians liked A = 455 (much brighter!) So, don't take 415 as standard because it wasn't.
philomelodia 2 years ago
That is absolutely amazing there were so many variations.
chris
mradaChris 2 years ago
@CubbyNH of course that is not particularly true. In Italy for example it was a semi tone higher than a=440 and in France it was a whole tone lower...
mistatomsom 1 year ago
That comment is historically very ungrateful since Ragin is tremendously important, having been one of the first to put the operatic big countertenor voice on the map. I admit it is odd to use too much chest voice in a film that is supposed to be about a castrato, but that is for the director and the musical advisor of the film to decide and there is nothing wrong with Ragin's technique per se in that respect
luisortmul 3 years ago
I think Derek Lee Ragin is a fine musician... And historically very important, since he was one of the first big voiced countertenors to appear (Kowalski excluded, who was a difficult man) and he put the american school on the map...I accept the oddity of using chest voice excessively when trying to portray a castrato but that was for the director and the musical advisor of the film to notice, since there is nothing wrong with Ragin's technique per se in that respect.
luisortmul 3 years ago
can you share tha sheet music? danke
brolasix 3 years ago
Bella aria! La sto ascoltando per la prima volta e già mi sento trasportato sulle ali di queste belle note. Grazie, Stefen!
avola50 3 years ago
imprecise technique, breathiness... Derek Lee Ragin will appreciate :)
cuicuimusic 3 years ago
(For cuicuimusic) Yes, you are correct. I assume you read my description at the top. This is the first and only production of mine where I feel that the voices are less than excellent, and I hesitated to upload it; however, the aria and the da capo interpretation are interesting enough for me to have done so. I enjoy the aria enough for me to play both the orchestra and voice parts on the piano.
sfkcbf 3 years ago