The Battle for Betyl: Meteorites in the Bible? part 1

[krononomikon]

Even so about stars falling from the sky and heavenly bodies being shaken, a lot of that though is symbolic as you study, seeing that there are in fact certain euphemisms and figures of speech. That one in particular is shown to be symbolic (whether realized that way by the first prophet who said it) in Revelation. :)

Although I do believe that men are men and understood things their own way, but it's good to come upon things to test you, 'cause as you stand firm, you'll learn and be tempered.

[TruthSurge]

@krononomikon "Even so about stars falling from the sky and heavenly bodies being shaken, a lot of that though is symbolic as you study,"

No, it's not. It is literal. This is what the people of Mesopotamia actually believed 2000 years ago. Please, do some more research because you are dead wrong here. The Christians have SOLD you the belief that it is not literal because that would mean God's word was inaccurate as stars cannot fall to earth. It was a literal belief at that time.

[TruthSurge]

@krononomikon get on google, look up mesopotamian cosmology. then learn. thanks.

[krononomikon]

@TruthSurge I said that it was shown to be symbolic, whether that's what the person who originally said it thought of it to be. Remember that they were merely carried along by what the Holy Spirit told them to say. As far as it being symbolic, and about studying, please, if you've studied the Bible, do you really think that Revelation 12:4 for instance is talking about an actual dragon up in the sky, flinging stars at the earth with his tail? Recognize the symbolism all throughout that book.

[TruthSurge]

@krononomikon "I said that it was shown to be symbolic" If you find symbols in things that the author never intended, then good for you. If you want to interpret a writing in a different way than the author intended, good for you. The problem is, you completely devalue the work in so doing and basically make up your own stories about what it means.  You say it COULDN'T mean that stars really fall to earth so I'll just say it's symbolic. Kind of like "god did it".

[TruthSurge]

@krononomikon Yes, I agree. There IS symbolism in the apokalypsis of John. Sifting through what is and isn't is where the rub lies. Some items are clearly representative of others. Some are simply literal beliefs. The people at that time believed that stars were actually tiny points of light no further away than the sun and moon. They were all affixed to the firmament (dome) that covered the earth and as such, could "fall" to earth.

[TruthSurge]

@krononomikon same goes for the pillars of the earth. it is NOT a symbol or figure of speech. They actually believed the earth was flat, surrounding by water and resting upon pillars. We see tons of verses saying "pillars of the earth" and that god put them under the earth when the earth was formed etc. Shaking the pillars of the earth. I'm just telling you that what you THINK is symbolic in the Bible, may not be. nothing more than that. I plan to do a vid on this also.

[TruthSurge]

@krononomikon one last thing, ancient people often believed the myths of other nations as fact. Clement of Rome in defending the general resurrection cites the phoenix as a real bird that dies and resurrects and he finds this compelling evidence that god would resurrect the believers one day. So, it is entirely possible that John believed dragons WERE real but I believe in this case, the dragon, the woman, etc. do represent nations/emperors/etc.

[TruthSurge]

@krononomikon hope that made sense.

[FrogSplatScience]

Meteorite is not mentioned in the bible, nor is betyl. Betyl is Arabic, I believe. However, the bible does mention multiple time fire and stars which fall from the sky. These passages are widely interpreted as meaning "shooting stars" or meteorites. It is much prettier to say "...the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken..." then it is to say "and meteorites will come"

[TruthSurge]

What people don't understand is that the figures of speech of TODAY were the literal beliefs of YESTERDAY. The sun rose and set. Not a figure of speech. They actually believed it orbited the earth. God set the foundations of the earth, he formed the pillars of the earth. NOT figurative or symbolic. Mesopotamian cosmology included a flat earth that actually rested upon pillars (columns). The reference to stars falling to earth was based on their belief that stars were tiny and not far off.

[FrogSplatScience]

Stars falling to the earth may have meant meteorites (and not symbolically). There are many people today that think shooting stars are actually stars due to their bright nature. I would not be surprised if they thought the same. I am not saying it is a figure of speech, I think they very much thought that shooting stars were falling stars. The reason we may have not translated it to meteorite is the beauty of the language itself. I would prefer it not be changed and I am an atheist.

[philhellenes]

Thanks for the education, TruthSurge. Annotation added. And for your information, you are one of the FEW who has pronounced my name correctly. :)

"Educate a wise man and he becomes yet wiser."

Proverbs 9:9.

[TruthSurge]

HAHA! Hey, a huge compliment coming from you. But look, when you pronounce a name TWICE, you gotta get ONE of them right! :)

So, uh... which one was right? HAHAHA The first? Like Hellene? w/o s? Or with?

Anyway, I really dig your vids. I sometimes think I'd have liked to have been raised in England or Scotland or... IREland. Lots of good wit and seems many people enjoy the language aspects (good writers coming from England).

[philhellenes]

Helleeenz - rhymes with beans. :)

[TruthSurge]

Aight den, homey. Oh, you might like my Jesus Myth vids if you are into that line of reasoning ref Christian origins. It does get a bit speculative in a few areas but all the vids I've done so far rest upon pretty good evidence.

[CousinoMacul]

Perhaps he loves Greeks.

[TruthSurge]

I'd expect him to be an expert on the Hellenistic period at least. HEHEHHEHEHE But what's funny, I suspect he IS! Or at least very knowleagable. Why is youtube telling me that knowleagable is misspelled? IDIOTS!

[CousinoMacul]

Non-Inspired Version: LOL!

[TruthSurge]

hehe yeah, I always laugh at that myself. But oddly enough, that version had several deliberate mistranslations. I may do a vid on just that one day.