Wretched TV - Todd Friel on Greg Boyd's Bad Theology - Part 2 of 2

[ObjectiveBob]

Todd Friel is the Glenn Beck of christian fundamentalism, except that Friel is even MORE annoying.

[teallewis107]

i second that!

[Kaddywompous]

SICK!!!

[danielkidd21]

AMEN

[TheNightwing01]

I am not sure where to start with this guy. Is this satire?

[KingdomUploader]

Someone who watched this vid must have read my comments and subsequently subscribed to my channel; thank you for that little one Jesus! I so am weary of arguing this hell thing with morons, God love 'em, like our dear bro. todd; it will take a definitive work of grace on God's part to shake us off of that view...may it come quickly Lord Jesus

[clix089]

it's really hard to put what he's trying to say into context when you're judging his entire sermon by little clips.

[CharityAileen]

@clix089 What portion of Boyd's sermon was taken out of context?

[TheNightwing01]

@CharityAileen A lot of it.

[CharityAileen]

@TheNightwing01 I'm honestly inquiring, out of genuine interest. What portion of Boyd's sermon was taken out of context? What did Friel get wrong concerning Boyd's intended message?

[TheNightwing01]

@CharityAileen Ill try to respond in the allowed limit. Boyd was trying to show that God if he is Just can only Punish us not torture us. The common thought is that the Bible says we go to hell to suffer for ever. The problem is there are several ways hell is explained in the bible. Jesus talked about Gehenna which was a Dump out side of the city. The fire would burn "forever" but the Trash was burned up. This seems to note that we would be punished but it would end. Continued on the next one.

[TheNightwing01]

@CharityAileen Also the bible talks about Nashing of Teeth during that portion. In all other spots of the bible Nashing means not pain but rage. But by far the most used word for the people who are wicked is perished or that they never be. Take this with what Greg was saying about Love which he means Jesus on the Cross. When we read the bible we have to read it through the idea of love showed by Jesus on the Cross. If you want more information Message me on here and Ill try to explain better. GB

[TheObviousHero]

Mt 10 says "destroy" in hell, not just "send". I am not an annihilationist but I do find it interesting that this man distorts scripture while he accuses others of doing it, kind of like when he later says that God only loves those who are his or when he indirectly relates Rom 1 to eternity. But this man leaves me with a question; if justice is with eternal suffering for most, then if I strive to be just and Godlike, should I also hope for the same? Should I praise God that my father is in hell?

[KingdomUploader]

You're hateful

[semperveritatem]

This jackass does not understand justice.

[ideologger]

@semperveritatem Nor does he understand mercy. If Friel's God has no mercy, only a sense of robotic "justice" and a love of burnt flesh.

[razputin34]

I guess the louder you talk, the more truthful your words. Todd Friel is the gatekeeper of truth. He has the ability to discern what is truth and what is error. I still wonder how Todd can be certain that he is not in error. He would argue that we are DEAD in sins and can't know truth apart from Christ, well then how does he know that Christ has actually changed his heart for sure. Maybe he is one of these false converts. He can't be, he uses the scriptures..so do men like Greg Boyd that

[razputin34]

@razputin34 he critiques as false. I wish Todd would show the debate between Ray Comfort and the Rational Response Squad. Now there is something that is worth tearing apart and ridiculing.

[dannytibi]

Funny, Greg's entire sermon was riddled with scripture quotes supporting every point he made. I did not see one quote of scripture here. Just appeals to a tradition of eternal damnation doctrine. And really, Todd, what kind of "justice" does eternal torture accomplish that annihilation does not? You come off as a childish sadist.

[pablocoon]

@dannytibi Are you deaf? He quoted scripture at least 5 times.

[dannytibi]

@pablocoon Hmmm, must've not registered as I didn't hear anything that contradicted Greg's arguments.

[Georgephyl]

Lord, remove the blinders off your church. Help us to come into the unity of the faith! Deliver your people from arrogance,pride,religion,sarca­sim and any other walls that divide. let revelation knowledge flood the church and open the eyes of our understanding. Knock Todd Freil off his high horse like you did Paul.And use his zeal in a new way! In the name of Jesus! Amen!

[mamainmancj]

For the comments down below let's go back to scripture. Woe to you when everyone says good things about you. Todd freils just speaking truth. Boyd is a lovely man but we need to preach ergency of salvation and the reality of hell. People might hate you for it now but you'll be thanked on judgement day.

[KingdomUploader]

God is moving today in an increase of spiritual knowledge. I am faced with the fact that I have not known everything there is to know. Do we, as the Church move ahead with God, or do we refuse to admit that we could have been incomplete in our understanding and now find it unwise to furiously charge our brothers with heresy?

[KingdomUploader]

God is moving today in an increase of spiritual knowledge. I am faced with the fact that I have not known everything there is to know. Do we, as the Church move ahead with God, or do we refuse to admit that we could have been incomplete in our understanding and now find it unwise to furiously charge our brothers with heresy?

[KingdomUploader]

Stick to bashing benny hinn!

[amberfreyalert]

Wow, perhaps Todd should revisit his freshman English lesson on libel and slander. Taking bits and pieces of Greg's sermon to support the view that he has "mangled scripture", and has a "squishy view" of the attributes of God is bordering on the line of slanderous. Seriously Todd, did you listen to the whole sermon? Have you listened to Greg's other sermons? I have had the privilege of meeting Dr. Boyd and he is a Christ-centered, godly man with an unmistakable reverence for Scripture.

[alyssafaithbaer]

Very poor critique of Boyd's thoughts... kind of like talking points with politicians...

whatthehellbook . com

[darylandlauracarlson]

How interesting. Did he listen to this whole sermon? He is only showinbg bits and pieces and not the actual Bible passages that Boyd presented. I challenge Todd to have Greg on live for a real discussion! One other point....Todd Friel earlier accuses boyd of being many things which I know for a fact he is not. I know b/c I actually had a face to face conversation with Dr. Boyd. I am sorry but I think that if the Pharisees of Jesus' day had a tv show it would be just like this one.

[killforce787878]

Boyd is a good speaker...friel is arrogant but correct.

[dannytibi]

@killforce787878 Boyd is the one who quoted scripture in support of every point he made, but Todd is the one who is correct? The tradition of eternal damnation sure does have a strong hold on some people.

[ideologger]

@dannytibi Todd loves those pagan traditions- Tartarus all the way. Funny how sola scriptura quickly becomes mostly tradition, with scripture relegated to proof texting and idolatry.

[profskett]

... oh, and 1 John 4. Yeh, it looks like you forgot that one too.

[profskett]

Dear Mr Friel, considering your searing indictment of Greg to 'read the book of Job', I suggest you read Roger Forster's interpretation of Job - you may find it educational. On the subject of whether God 'willingly afflicts' people, Greg's choice of words is very deliberate, because he has read Lamentations 3, and taken it to heart.

[falconflyer34]

Todd Friel is the biggest douch bag....too bad we never get the satisfaction of knowing that he realizes he's wrong after he dies since it's just lights out.

[Amills11]

@falconflyer34 Yeah because we all know everything was created out of nothing. I mean how hard is it to understand that matter just appeared. That life was created out of non-life. That cells just normally after a period of time add new genetic information, more chromosomes, and develop mutations over millions of years because they couldn't live in there present environment with these changes. All the evidence for evolution is simply staggering like....

[11donian]

This Todd guy is so cocky and arrogant. Boyd is more loving and genuine. I see the spirit of God in Greg far more than this Todd guy who seems more concerned about funky camera angles than the truth. He twists Boyds words to make his points. He is a showman and Greg seems to be genuine. You make your own decision..

[theflarpus]

Awesome video. We so quickly forget Gods holiness and this brings God down to our level and then we become his critic. We are wretched beings. God is HOLY, if we forget that for only a moment so much of what God says and does in the bible begins to not make sense. God have mercy on us all, please.

[dannytibi]

@theflarpus How does annihilation compromise justice and holiness? Because God simply has to torment people for ever and ever and ever... it is bringing God down to our level to assume that God is not cruel? Annihilation is just punishment, eternal torture is overkill.

[ideologger]

@dannytibi And if God were merciful, sinners would be brought into Heaven or simply annihilated. There's no mercy in extracting an infinite punishment for a finite crime, only love of the violence and the smell of burnt flesh.

[CBALLEN]

@ideologger The Bible tells us that those in Hell will curse Him eternally too,they will become as demons.Hell is for punishment not rehabilitation,Hell is not like some man made prison.Greg Boyd teaches God is ignorant,makes mistakes and needs man's help in deciding the future,Greg is an all around heretic.

[ideologger]

@CBALLEN Todd's God creates a Hell as his eternal torture chamber. Then, he creates humans fundamentally flawed. "Created sick and commanded to be well." Maybe God needs humans to fuel his heater? Todd can ignore the Bible all he likes, but God is shown as being ignorant, making mistakes, and changing his mind. Greg might be wrong, but he's doing a better job of making sense of all of the Bible, and not just the parts that validate what he wishes was true like Todd does.

[CBALLEN]

@ideologger Greg is just like all the others who use man made philosophy to try and get around the truth of scripture.Man just can't get over the fact that all men are born under God's wrath and that God has chosen His own before time,He pulls who He chose before time off of death row and leaves the others.Men who believe God are called the elect,the ones who don't like how He does things are called the lost.

[pablocoon]

@ideologger You trying to tell god what mercy amounts to is really dumb. You're not God.

[austinmrogers04]

It stirs me to anger how arrogant Todd Friel is. It seems clear to me that he is only concerned about puffing himself up and being popular, hence the stylish and edgy TV set and cinematography. Watch Boyd's videos, where he says multiple times that he's just trying to ask questions and struggle with the issue. Friel acts like he knows everything already and thus can police all the bad theology of today's world. I see a desire for popularity and authority in Friel more than the love of God.

[AcaiBunch]

It's a good thing I know my Bible and study it myself, I might be swayed by the likes of Dr. Greg Boyd!

Matthew 24:24

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

[cg5869]

mr. greg boyd needs to spend more time reading and meditating on God's word.

[3nails1salvation]

Romans 6:23- For the wages of sin is death; but the Gift of God is eternal life throught Jesus Christ our Lord.- A gift is not a choice. You don't choose to get a gift a gift is chosen for you. Romans 8:30- Morover whom he did Predestinate, the he also Called: and whom he Called, them he justified, them he also glorified.- God has to call you first! That is why saved people are called the ellect.

[razputin34]

@3nails1salvation Can you accept or reject a gift? Yes, you are presented with a gift, but you can choose not to accept it. The gift is made available to anyone who chooses to accept it. You are leaving out the beginning of the verse. Those whom He foreknew, He also predestined. If read in the way you wish to interpret it, explain to me who the people are He didn't foreknow. Foreknow here is not about knowing every individual person who would be saved. See Romans 11:2.

[razputin34]

@Monstergoat66 I find numerous scriptures where God is telling us that it is a choice as to whether you gain eternal life. I am not saying that God isn't the one that saves you or that He hasn't chosen a people to save, but I don't find this overwhelming breadth of scriptures that tell us that God chooses who is going to saved and also who he is going to damn to Hell. I will be happy to go through the entire lot of scriptures on choosing eternal life. Choosing the narrow gate versus the wide.

[razputin34]

@Monstergoat66 I have continued to ask how one knows they are saved if it is all God. How do you know you are not just another Bart Ehrman? Since you are totally depraved and are dead, how do you know that God has given you life and a renewed mind? How can you know you are regenerated if you are starting with a totally depraved mind. You might still be totally depraved, but just think you are regenerated.

[razputin34]

@Monstergoat66 It is one thing to be persecuted for your beliefs and that the world will hate you for believing in Christ. It is another thing to speak of God causing children to be raped and murdered. This isn't God of the OT versus nice Jesus. Are you going to tell me Hurricane Katrina was God sending a message to New Orleans? Consistent Calvinism must accept that God causes all things and that He has purpose when a child is raped. I would argue that is not Biblical at all.

[razputin34]

@Monstergoat66 We find that God talks about showing mercy and "changing" His intended outcome, if the people repent. He also speaks of changing intended outcomes for those who He promised blessings too that decide to turn away from Him. This doesn't necessarily apply to salvation for individual believers. I think too much is being read into that passage to force to be a Calvinistic salvation passage. God has revealed Himself to us in and through His Word. I study it diligently to grow close

[razputin34]

@Monstergoat66 He is talking to his own Jewish brothers and sisters that believe they are the ones that worship correctly and that Gentiles have no place with God. His point is God is the one that gives mercy to whomever he wants too. The Jews don't own God and they don't speak for how, when and on whom God will act. If God wants to show the Gentiles mercy, He has every right too and the Jews can't question it. He talks about the Potter and the clay and I would ask you to read Jeremiah 18.

[razputin34]

@Monstergoat66 I appreciate you taking time out of your day to respond my comments. I have studied this in scripture and been doing so for at least 17 years. I do not say this to argue that I am correct, but just to say, I have spent many hours documenting all of these positions. You are throwing out a verse of scripture with no context at all. Sure, on the face of it, sounds pretty convincing. Read in the light of who the audience is and why he is speaking to them, not so much sting.

[frnz444]

Todd you have too much Calvinism in your theology...

[razputin34]

Bad theology? People run to the verses of scripture that help prop up their idea of what God looks like. They spin and play down the ones that work against their vision of God. I often wonder how Calvinist's like Mr. Friel deal with the notion that they are actually self-deluded Christians preaching a false gospel. I liken their midset to the Matrix. Calvinist thinkers argue that we are DEAD, so how do they know they have been regenerated? Seems like they may still be in their corrupt mind

[jtroyer1975]

Isn't it our falleness and a broken world the reason that their is suffering in the world? Why does God have to be the one to do it? Sorry Todd.

God is just and holy, but not holiness and justice. God is not only loving but IS love. Not just an attribute but His essence.

Todd as a brother in the Lord, you can disagree with Greg or anyone, but the very way you "defend Christ" is an offense to who Christ is. Stand for what you believe but all i hear is a "clanging cymbal".

[RenegadesWorrior]

No itroyer1975 it is not an offense to Christ. Todd is standing up to false teachers and telling biblical truth. I didn't understand your first line at all. We can never come even close to god deserves. We were born is sin, FROM birth we deserved nothing but eternal damnation (hell). BUT in Gods amazing Grace he sent his son to die on the cross for those the has chosen in eternity past. NOTHING we did had ANYTHING to do our salvation.

[razputin34]

@RenegadesWorrior Help me understand why God called Noah righteous? God destroyed the entire population except for one man and his family. Why? The Bible tells us that it was because Noah trusted God. You may infer some things, but the Bible doesn't tell us that God purposed Noah to trust Him. If read in context, it is clear that in spite of all of the rebellion around him, Noah trusted God and because Noah trusted Him, Noah was called righteous. Reformed teaching tells us that God

[razputin34]

@RenegadesWorrior purposes false teaching. God does everything and so God wants false teachers to help send those He didn't elect, to Hell. If Todd's way of thinking is to be believed, then God causes children to be raped and murdered. God causes mudslides to kill thousands. God caused those planes to be hijacked. God is behind everything, but He loves justice. How can anyone ever know if Katrina was actually sent by God as punishment? Please help me understand this way of thinking.

[gvassi17]

Thanks todd for your soild teaching and sharp discernment.

[joey0494]

LOL- this guy is a TOTAL buffoon. Todd Friel one of the sins mentioned in the bible that people "GET IT" for...is pride. You should look into repenting....or you're gonna get it.

that WAS Wretched.

[ispywithmygoodeye]

I don't believe in what Todd Friel says...I believe in what the Bible says, and the Bible says...

Psalm 2:4 - "The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath..."

Psalms 11:7 - "For the Lord is righteous, he LOVES justice; upright men will see his face."

Psalm 37:12-13 - "the wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their at them; but the Lord laughs at the wicked for he knows their day is coming."

[ndrudyjr]

Oh, sorry for shouting at a man who condemned my hero of the faith. Just because Boyd isn't stuck in the Reformation like Piper and his minions (e.g. Friel) doesn't mean he's a heretic. All you Reformers crack me up.

[ndrudyjr]

"Greg better repent or he's gonna get it." SHAME ON YOU, TODD FRIEL!!! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!

[thirdimpact]

@ndrudyjr That's right. Shame on Todd Friel for holding truth as important. After all, how dare him actually recognize something in contradiction to the Bible as heresy.

P.S. Stop shouting.

[ndrudyjr]

The most amazing part of this is how Todd mocks the love of God, and he never addresses God's love in relationship to human beings.

[ndrudyjr]

God IS holiness and righteousness? Where does the Bible say that?

[gvassi17]

@ndrudyjr "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!" Isaiah 6:3 May i suggest you do a deeper study into God's word before you attack a man like Todd friel who has been gifted with clear discernment and wisdom. Thank God for men like Todd who will stand up for God's word as oppose to arguing from what makes them "feel good" like greg does. Greg doesn't like something? he will just manipulate it to agree with him. 2000 years of church history agree for a reason

[pntedVeil]

is this christianity????? :-/ soo sad... you look like a little kid arguing over who has a bigger toy truck. its videos like this that turned me off of christianity. theres a way to do things. you know, in john calvins day you'd be burned at the stake for having diffrent theological view points. but thats not acceptable anymore so we just make fun of others and write books. so sad. lord protect me from your followers.

[Wired4Truth]

@pntedVeil Yep I pray he protects me from His "followers" - folks like yourself who seem to think doctrine is not important.

[pntedVeil]

@Wired4Truth will christ look at you and me and say " well done good servant you had an impeccable doctrinal statement and you made fun of and chastised anyone for having a different viewpoint then you come into the fathers kingdom which was prepared for you since the begging of the ages!!..? or " come into the kingdom. for i was hungry and you gave me food, i was thirsty and you gave me drink, i was naked and you clothed me..." dont make christianity something jesus never wanted it to be.

[Wired4Truth]

@pntedVeil Funny that - Jesus taught the importance of sound doctrine (Mt 7:21-23, Jn 7:17) as did His disciples who wrote book after book filled to the brim with sound doctrine. You are making doctrine the enemy of practice - in reality, BOTH are as vital as each other. Your doctrine - what you believe the Bible teaches about God - influences your practice.

Further, there is Biblical precedent for critiquing other views. Paul did it in Galatians, Jesus did it to the Pharisees. List can go on.

[mtgman33]

@pntedVeil Friel is pointing out false doctrine. False doctrine leads to false conversion, false conversion leads to eternity in hell. Granted, God does the saving, but if a person is not saved and thinks they are and preaches a false gospel, they are leading people falsely. And false teaching leads to a false picture of Christians in the eyes of the world and that is why Christians argue and debate because false teaching has prevailed. Thus putting us all in a bad light!

[razputin34]

@mtgman33 I'm sorry but this makes no sense at all. I wish Calvinist thinkers would be consistent. Under the Reformed thinking, how does false doctrine do anything other than what God purposes it to do. God wants those who respond to false doctrine, to respond in the way that they do. In fact, God predestines them to believe the false ideology. God didn't choose those who listen to false doctrine. God maps their lives to go to Hell. They are leading the people to Hell that God puts there.

[TraumaConcept]

Is trying to say.

It's Jewish Apocalyptic writing...which means symbols and metaphors on top of symbols and metaphors. That doesn't mean don't read it, that doesn't mean you can't learn from it...but at least learn what Jewish Apocalyptic writing is before you try.

[TraumaConcept]

Then he states that God afflicted Job, when the Bible CLEARLY states that Satan did. He makes a slight attempt to correct himself the second time he says it...but makes it seem like a separate story in which Satan does the afflicting.

And can people stop pretending they know exactly what Revelation means. There are some great things you can learn, but you don't learn who God is from Revelation and then read backwards through the Bible. You learn who God is and then try to see what Revelation

[TraumaConcept]

For someone calling out a person for not understanding scripture...you think he would be careful not to misquote it himself. Mathew 10:28 says "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But fear the One who can kill both body and soul in Gehenna."

Now, even if you want to use the later dated copies that said Hell instead of Gehenna...it still doesn't say that God kills the body and then sends the soul to Hell.

[ewangurr]

Finally, something we agree on. In the final words of Todd Friel: 'This is wretched!'

[86durell]

Perfectly expressed. Remember they tried to kill Jesus 10x before He got to the cross. The Bible says people hated Jesus for what He said and if anyone else follows His footsteps they'll be hated to. Some how it changed with American so called Christians!

[newbirth17]

AMEN TODD. What is sad is there are alot of bad theology being taught out there. People are eatint it up. Thank you Todd for pointing them out. People will hate you for it.

[SeaBiscuitSpeed]

Ohhhhhh Todd Friel is gonna get it too! we are all scared now...Todd Freil said it....Ohhhhhhh...tell a joke Todd or do something trendy funny a skit ...make us laugh...come on clown...jump through a hoop! Entertain us that is what your best at.