Wizard of Oz Glenda and Witch of the West

[1800youtroll]

I love this on shake it up!!(;

[Thoralmir]

Dorothy: Who on Earth was that?!

Glinda: My old collage roomate.

[neonpurple1306]

Theres a play at my school and its The wizard of oz and I want to play Glinda anyone got any tips for meif I get the part?

[beeblmeyer]

@neonpurple1306

Yes. Drop a house on Michele Bachmann.

Good luck!

[SDPaldora1]

Go Glenda!!!! ;)

[JDWolfman12271]

It's GA LINDA (Glinda), not glenda.

[MaskedMan66]

@JDWolfman12271 Actually, it's Glinda. Always has been.

[TherealRNO]

That being said, because all versions of Oz are canon to whomever's creating it and since Maguire has wanted to portray Wicked as a prequel/continuition as akin to the version of Oz seen in the MGM film, I consider both the Margaret Hamilton portrayal of The Witch and the various actresses who have portrayed Wicked's Elphaba to be the SAME character, especially since one heavily influenced the other.

[TherealRNO]

"an alternate version of oz which does not gibe with Baum's original"

I never said Wicked WASN'T an alternate version, since it IS being told from the point of view of the story's villain. BUT, being that much of Wicked takes influence from the MGM film, much of the film is basically repeated within Wicked pages and even on-screen via the musical, even if the novel and musical do contradict (because the musical gives a TRAGIC character a Disney-like HAPPY ending).

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO For the record, it wasn't me who spammed this post of yours. Bit silly to attempt a conversation with someone when you're going to make it look one-sided, right? I'll try to get it un-spammed for you.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO And I apologize for the sigh; that was rather ungracious. I'm just a bit frustrated is all.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan: For instance, the poppy scene was taken from the first-ever play of the original story (it was NOT in the original book), the witch as a villain had only TWO PAGES devoted to her (she was developed as the main antagonist to create a quality villain for Dorothy & friends to play off of), the Dainty China Country was omitted entirely, Glinda the Good and Tattypoo were merged into one character, the infamous footwear changed from silver shoes to Ruby Slippers due to Technicolor, etc.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO I direct you to chapters 8 and 12 of "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" respectively entitled, "The Deadly Poppy Field" and "The Search for the Wicked Witch."

All the rest of what you say has been well documented in umpteen books about the making of the MGM film and is not news.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: Sure, the Poppy scene was IN the book, BUT The Witch was NOT involved with it, UNTIL the first-ever play of the story, in which the snowfall saves our heroes.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO You insisted with a capital "NOT" that the poppy field wasn't in the book. I was pointing out that it is. As for the 1902 musical, the Wicked Witch of the West wasn't in it.

[TherealRNO]

"As for Baum's descendants, you brought up yourself the fact that his works are public domain"

But they're only there, because the desendants let them become as such. They could've kept all rights if they thought that people like Maguire--as you put it--desecrated Baum's work. Oz is Oz, whether by Baum, Thompson, Maguire, or whomever decides to tackle the franchise with their own vision.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO No. Oz as envisioned by Baum was maintained by Thompson, Neill, Snow, Kramer, Cosgrove, and the McGraws. Each put their stamp on it, but remained faithful to Baum's vision. Maguire has turned Baum's vision on its head.

[TherealRNO]

"so how 'Wicked' can be mistaken for canon escapes me"

It's because the Witch didn't have a backstory until Maguire penned it, that's why. If Baum had wanted, he could've expanded more on his characters, but he didn't, since even he didn't expect the success his franchise would have on the world.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO But "Elphaba" bears no resemblance to the Wicked Witch of the West. She has two eyes, for a start. Maguire's Oz is not Baum's. It's like saying Oz as depicted by Philip Jose Farmer in "A Barnstormer in Oz" is consistent with Baum, even though (as Farmer would be the first to tell you were he alive to do so) it quite plainly isn't.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: As I said, I ONLY see Elphie in the MGM film and the subsequent Wicked stories, because it is upon the Margaret Hamilton movie portrayal that Elphaba was based. Besides, who's to say that Baum himself knew the success of his stories in the future? Yes, he knew of its success in book form, but I doubt he could envision it being a movie, various cartoons, and a couple Broadway productions, since his own film company based on the stories typically LOST money.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO So how do you account for the discrepancy as regards her complexion? It caused a stir in "Wicked," but in MGM's Oz all Winkies are green. Face it, Maguire was working from the MGM image, but was not trying to make his tale compatible with the MGM version-- especially since in the MGM movie, Oz is all Dorothy's dream.

You underestimate Baum's vision. And of course he knew how huge his tales were; in his lifetime he saw monumental success with the 1902 Broadway "Wizard."

[TherealRNO]

"If all incarnations of Sonic are in the same continuity"

I didn't SAY they were the SAME continuity. I was saying that although they ARE different continuities, they are ALL approved by Sega and thus, ARE canon in their own right. The same is said of the various stories for Oz, since Oz is in public domain, making any version of the tale canon to whomever is creating it.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO Okay, it's taken me a bit, but I finally see the difficulty in this discussion: you're mixed up about the meaning of the word "canon."

"Canon" basically is synonymous with "continuity." The Oz canon contains the Famous Forty, and all other Oz-related works are non-canonical, though each has within it its own continuity (e.g.: Volkov's books). The Famous Forty represent the "real" Oz, while everything else is "speculative fiction."

[TherealRNO]

"Only the original 44 Oz books are canon."

Says you. It's like Sonic. Sonic was a joint effort by American and Japanese partners. Plus, everything Sonic-branded has been approved by Sega, making the cartoons, anime, and various comics and manga canon in their own right. The same is said of Oz, since the brand is now in public domain.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO No, says Oz fandom for the last 60 years.

If all incarnations of Sonic are in the same continuity, why are his siblings seen nowhere else but "Sonic Underground" and why is his backstory in that series different from others? There are at least two alternate realities there.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO And actually, that's only 40 canon Oz books; my oops.

[TherealRNO]

"Maguire has no say in the matter."

Again, since Oz is public domain, people can do what they wish with the brand now. So if Maguire says Wicked is canon, it might as well be, since Baum is gone and his desendants let such works be written. If they had any qualms about it being canon or not, they could've just as easily filed a suit against Maguire, just like Clare Milne (Christopher Robin's daugher) did against Disney for what the company did to Pooh.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO Because Oz is public domain, Baum's descendants have no choice but "let" other authors do what they will. Some of them may well like Maguire's books, but that doesn't stop those books being what they are: an alternate version of oz which does not gibe with Baum's original.

[MaskedMan66]

@MaskedMan66 *Oz

[TherealRNO]

"if she had a name it was Momba"

Head-collecting Mombi & The Wicked Witch of the West are TWO SEPARATE characters. The Wicked Witch of the West had TWO PAGES devoted to her in the first Baum book & was killed off quickly (the film made her the primary antagonist for depth's sake), yet Mombi was heavily pitted against Tip (a magically gender-bent Ozma) throughout the second Oz book. Though female Ozma was present in Return to Oz--based on that book--Dorothy was again the main force in the film.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO I said Momba.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: So? The Witch didn't HAVE a name until Maguire wrote Wicked really, so your statement is false.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO Incorrect. In the 1910 film she was Momba, in Volkov's books she's Bastinda, and in "The Wiz" she's Evillene.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO Forgot to mention: the owner of the thirty heads in the books was one Princess Langwidere of Ev.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: Yeah. Return to Oz though, was a mix of both The Marvelous Land of Oz and Ozma of Oz, hence the differences.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO Exactly so, and a pretty seamless blending of elements; I think Baum would have been pleased. He did the same sort of thing in one of his films, "His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz."

Incidentally, regarding "Return to Oz," are you aware of all the cameos from other Oz characters in the Emerald City Restoration scene?

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: Yeah. Practically everyone was present in the throne room, trying to crown Dorothy queen of Oz, until Ozma revealed herself, allowing the Kansas farmgirl a free pass to return in between her home and Oz at any given time.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO I knew that Polychrome, Scraps the Patchwork Girl, the Frogman, the Shaggy Man, the Braided Man, and Tommy Kwikstep were in that scene, but I recently saw a photo taken on the set, and they also had the Bumpy Man, King Rinkitink, the Guardian of the Gates (a Denslow design amidst all the Neill-inspired characters!), and a Munchkin that may or may not have been Boq.

I'm also informed that the Wizard and Cap'n Bill are possibly in the crowd.

[RandomPeter94]

im 17 and that wicked witch of the west is actually quite scary :L! just the voice that scares me.

[QM2nerd]

It's Glinda now!

[dgurl1010]

im more on Elphaba's side; like this if you saw wicked

[MaskedMan66]

@dgurl1010 Her name isn't Elphaba.

[dgurl1010]

@MaskedMan 66 tallking about the "wicked witch" and yea her name is Elphaba, read the book or watch the play sometime

[TheCowardlyLion04]

@dgurl1010 It's not, you know.

[MaskedMan66]

@dgurl1010 Read the original book from 1900 and see if you recognize the one-eyed, umbrella-toting hag as your "Elphaba."

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: There's the thing...I ONLY consider Elphaba to be the witch from the 1939 film, the 1990 DiC cartoon, and both forms of Wicked itself, since it the Margaret Hamilton portrayal that Elphaba is based on. Furthermore, as much as people say Wicked doesn't follow the original tale, nor did the MGM film that Wicked was taking influence from, since much of the original book was cut or otherwise changed to fit the movie adaptation.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO But it doesn't fit with the MGM film either, because in "Wicked" there's such a stink over a green baby being born, while in the MGM movie, the entire Winkie race is green-skinned. And as I understand it, even the book and stage versions of "Wicked" are inconsistent with each other; correct me if I'm mistaken.

And you're right, the MGM version of "Wizard" is quite plainly in an alernate reality.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: "But it doesn't fit with the MGM film either, because in "Wicked" there's such a stink over a green baby being born, while in the MGM movie, the entire Winkie race is green-skinned."

Which is ONLY presented in the MGM film to show the Winkies alliance with The Witch. THAT is the ONLY reason they're green. In the original Baum tale and in Wicked, they're guard with human peach/tan complextions.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO "Which is ONLY presented in the MGM film to show the Winkies alliance with The Witch."

What notes written by Florence Ryerson and Edgar Allan Woolf did you discover which states this?

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO "State this," that should have been.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO And then of course, there's still the fact that the Oz in MGM's movie doesn't ultimately exist except in Dorothy's dream, whereas Maguire's unappetizing version of Oz does exist in its own continuity.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: The dream sequence only was written in, because execs felt that audiences of the 1939 year couldn't see a fantasy world as legit UNLESS it were someone's dream.

[DarkAngelKisses13th]

Well we can't all come and go by bubble!

Now that I've got that off my chest, I have to say I was never scared of the Wicked Witch. I was even a little bit sad when she died.

[MaskedMan66]

The name's neither "Glenda" nor "Galinda." It is, and always has been, Glinda.

[000266617]

"I'll get you and your little dog too" Wasn't that what the President of Egypt said to the Egyptians?

[Billinois78]

The Witch of the West did scare me as a kid as well (she was good at that, wasn't she?). Looking back, I pintpointed the scene that scared me most. It wasn't this, it wasn't the flying monkeys (that scared others).

It was the part where Dorothy is held captive in the witch's tower and in the crystal ball, Auntie Em's image fades and the witch's image fades into view mocking "Auntie Em come back Auntie Em..I'LL GIVE YOU AUNTIE EM MY PRETTY!! HEHEHEHE!!!" and she turns and looks at the camera.

[MaskedMan66]

@Billinois78 The Witch didn't scare me that much as a child (I thought she was rather funny, actually), but that scene you described with the crystal ball did freak me out!

[Billinois78]

She thinks Dorothy is FINE. (ooh yeah...)

- And that's OK. She's not closed-minded and deceptive like Glinda the 'good' witch, who relays the message that "only bad witches are ugly".

What an awful thing to say. ;)

[MaskedMan66]

@Billinois78 Mind out of the gutter; that's "fine" as in "high and mighty."

[Billinois78]

@MaskedMan66 Mind off the soapbox. Have a sense of humor or move on.

[MaskedMan66]

@Billinois78 Right; pedophlia is a thing to joke about.

[goombamario1]

elphie just say your sorry

[holocaustik]

that bitch done lost it!!!

[leedonaldt]

lol i love how everyone just calls the wicked of the witch elphie now 

[MaskedMan66]

@leedonaldt Which is daft, since if she had a name it was Momba.

[PianoMan53100]

elphie!!!!

[kjb475]

The Late Margaret Hamiton was wonderful as the Witch. She scared the hell out of us as kids. I think she achieved this. A very good actress !

[Beholder552]

When I was little the witch scared the living shit out of me

[XxShinigamiLivixX]

I was never scared of the wicked witch XD she is too adorable!

[MaskedMan66]

@XxShinigamiLivixX Don't tell her that, she'll turn you into a toad!

[NickB1967]

It's Barbara Boxer!

[Anacchi]

I loved this movie when I was a kid - and now after reading Wicked, I'll never look at it the same way again! I'm like, LEAVE ELPHIE ALONE!

[MaskedMan66]

@Anacchi But there's no connection between the two.

[Anacchi]

@MaskedMan66 No shit. Doesn't change the fact that I now look at the characters differently.

[MaskedMan66]

@Anacchi No need to be rude.

Why would you look at the characters in the movie differently when they're not the same characters as in Maguire's book?

[Anacchi]

@MaskedMan66 I'd had a very bad day... anyway, I'm not going to bother explaining why and I'm clearly not the only person who makes a connection. It's a natural thing to do, isn't it.

[MaskedMan66]

@Anacchi Ah, sorry to hear it. I hope things are better now.

Well, yes and no, but think about it this way: did "The Dark Knight" change the way you thought about Batman as played by Adam West?

[Anacchi]

@MaskedMan66 ... Um... I am ashamed to say I've never seen the version of Batman as played by Adam West. But don't worry about it so much, it was just a joke. I still can appreciate the film and the novel Wicked as two entirely seperate entities and enjoy them for what they are. I guess what I meant at the time was that I would never have though that someone could recreat the characters in such a way and make them so much more three dimensional and give them so much depth.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: Actually, they ARE the same. Different performers (Margaret in film & Idina in the musical) & different scenario (Wicked being told from the P.O.V of the "villain"), but they're still the SAME characters. It's no different than the Romeo & Juliet film of the 90's that gave our two Shakespearean star-crossed lovers a HAPPY ending, when the story was originally a TRAGEDY. Same concept applies, since in both the MGM film & Wicked novel, Elphie DIES, but in the musical, she LIVES!

[sasa33pep]

''Ill get u my preety and ur little dog 2 hahahaha''

[dacatholicbandorgan]

LEAVE ELPHE ALONE!!!!! (lol!).

[BellatrixBlack123]

the name of the pink witch is Glinda, not Glenda^^ but great vid though :p i love this scene :D

[AirbenderSora]

I so want to do a spoof of the WoO. Espicially this scene.

Glinda:Be Gone, before someone drops a house on you too!

Witch:Oh please what are the odds of-

*another house falls almost hitting her*

[itsmimeep]

LOL. DO IT!

[AirbenderSora]

I would but I have no friends who will do it with me. =[

[itsmimeep]

You could always be both girls. :D And make it into a vid!

[AirbenderSora]

I could but I would need a cool movie editing program, which I do not.

[itsmimeep]

Aww...well the idea's awesome though :<

I just noticed...this makes sense with Wicked because while the WWotW is saying her lil speech to Dorothy, Glinda seems unfazed and calm... :D When if she didn't know Elphaba, she would be totally scared like Dorothy lol

[AirbenderSora]

lol Yeah, or maybe she's just happy that she's not focused on the fact that Glinda gave her the shoes and is after Dorthy now. XD

[itsmimeep]

LOL yeah

[elphabagalindafiyero]

In the musical, Glinda's jealous because Fiyero left her for Elphaba. (Ouch. A scene in Wicked after this prety much describes the whole "angry-at-Elphie-for-stealing-­my-fiance" issue. : )

[itsmimeep]

Haha yeah! Her face at the end looks like it. lol

[MaskedMan66]

@elphabagalindafiyero But it doesn't apply to this movie, because "Wicked" makes such a big deal of "Elphaba" being green, when in the MGM movie, all the Winkies are green.

[MaskedMan66]

@AirbenderSora I like it!

[NickeyNoodles]

Glinda not Glenda

[sieuss06]

Oh, hell no!

[HiveMistress]

What's that for?

[ktm760]

Its Glinda the 'Ga' is silent!

[GreenApplesAlli]

it "GLENDA!"

i should know i'm one of her nieces

[beagletaylor01]

It's is spelled GLINDA

[1Beth11]

@GreenApplesAlli It's Glinda. She changed her name after Doctor Dillomond couldn't pronounce it. The "Ga" is now silent.

[UKxxSophiiiexxUK]

"It's Glinda now! Stupid idea -I don't even know what me say it!"

XD

[MaskedMan66]

@GreenApplesAlli It's "Glinda." I should know, I read the book-- and the credits of the movie, for that matter.

[saffire862]

@ktm760 it was Galinda in the begining of wicked :)

[MaskedMan66]

@saffire862 But "Wicked" is just one author's twisted version of Oz, inconsistent with the MGM movie and certainly bearing no connection to the Oz of L. Frank Baum.

[MaskedMan66]

@ktm760 There is no "Ga."

[ktm760]

@MaskedMan66 I am well aware that there is no "Ga", thank you. I was making a joke which refrenced the musical Wicked.

[MaskedMan66]

@ktm760 Glad to know; but there are people who mistakenly believe that "Wicked" is canon. I'm glad to find out you're not among them.

[TherealRNO]

@MaskedMan66: Maguire HIMSELF wrote it as canon and since Oz is now public domain--outside of rights owned by Baum's desendants, who ALLOW things like Wicked to happen--it IS, or CAN be considered as, canon.

[MaskedMan66]

@TherealRNO Maguire has no say in the matter. Only the original 44 Oz books are canon. Even two books written in the 70's by Ruth Plumly Thompson (who wrote 19 of the originals) are not considered canon, so how "Wicked" can be mistaken for canon escapes me.

As for Baum's descendants, you brought up yourself the fact that his works are public domain, so Baum's descendants have no choice but to "allow" other authors to either respect Frank's work or, like Maguire, to desecrate it.

[surferpenguingrl]

@ktm760

Wicked. FTW

[jryan1027]

By far one of the most effective villains of all time.

[Sparrkle02]

god she scared the shit out of me when I was little

lol

[yourdemiser]

same here i was 3 and couldnt sleep for a month