#102 Stem Cell Research, Bluetooth And Other Private Innovation

[whoo689]

Politicians love treating the people like children. I think they've forgotten we're NOT their kids but regular adults who can vote them out of office.

Politicians also don't care much for evidence and facts. They just do whatever feels right.

[thewill2]

What logical reason could be given for denying a terminally ill person access to experimental drugs and treatments?

We are all dying and if I want to volunteer for some wacky scientific experiment that should be my choice, so long as it doesnt harm or endanger anyone else.

Does Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness mean anything?

I hope people wake up soon, otherwise it wont just be clones and French fry oil thats banned.

[THINKfutureShow]

Exactly my point. A lot of these so-called "regulations" are simply the government telling us what is good for us instead of making our OWN decisions about our lives.

[knightstalker1369]

Right! telemarketers and the GD 'net "You have won our sweepstakes" emails. At least they didnt kill trees, but they did for all the obama(LENIN) posters all over

[THINKfutureShow]

Yeah - so much for the govt do not call list. Telezapper - a privately created product - works great for land-lines. Now if someone woudl just come up with one for cell phones hmmmm...

[knightstalker1369]

Esp. for us on Prepaid cells!!!!!!!!! I think the most of the unsolicitated calls are from the company that produces them to make you buy minutes

[Teeebs]

A little stingy there.....ONLY +1 for finally allowing stem cell research again.....since Bush and his religious wingnuts put restrictions on it for all those years. All that did was allow the rest of the world to pass the US in terms of that type of research. Great, let's give the Chinese even more of an edge. As for funding. Maybe not fund it directly, but give tax breaks to companies involved in this sort of thing perhaps......

[THINKfutureShow]

Wow Teebs - we agree! Its a banner day in the Bunker! ;) Awesome

[lordgyre]

Oh, on a general note; you, of all people, Mr. Future, should recognize that it was *public* funds that invented your current vehicle of communication, and your current source of income.

It was the DoD, specifically DARPA, that funded the creation of the Internet, arguably one the greatest technological innovations ever.

That doesn't even include, nuclear sciences, including nuclear medicine, among the hundreds of other innovations that came out of public funds driven by government projects.

[THINKfutureShow]

Yes and no. The Internet would not be where it is today without private intervention. Or it would have sprung up on its own - I was a part of a proto-internet system myself. So its debatable that Al Gore invented the internet, it probably would have been invented by private industry had government at the time not held all the cards.

[lordgyre]

Al Gore .... roflcopter

I suppose you would say the same about all the fundamental underlying innovations that lead to the power grid (gov't funding of Edison and Tesla) or in current modern Photonics (Berkley and Livermore are public) or OFDM (all modern radio incl. Bluetooth, Australian tax payer money at work).

Innovation isn't a product; Innovation is a discovery, and the private sector doesn't do that. It just banks on it.

[THINKfutureShow]

I never said that government doesn't innovate. There is still that slim 1%....;)

[lordgyre]

Yes, because the world's modern power grids and all EM telecommunications in every aspect (satellite, tv, classic radio, ethernet, usb, bluebooth, sonet, etc...) based on OFDM, represent only 1% of innovation....

Make a list... cover all the MAJOR and FUNDAMENTAL innovations in the past century, not the cheap marketed by-products from private industry, but the real innovations. Then learn to count.

Even America's discovery was gov't funded. LOL

[THINKfutureShow]

ORTHOGONAL FREQUENCY MULTIPLEX DATA TRANSMISSION SYSTEM

Publication number: US3488445 (A)

Publication date: 1970-01-06

Inventor(s): CHANG ROBERT W

Applicant(s): BELL TELEPHONE LABOR INC

Hmm... Bell Labs, eh? They aren't government run, are they?

[lordgyre]

R. R. Mosier, and R. G. Clabaugh, "Kineplex, a bandwidth efficient binary transmission system," AIEE Trans. 76, 723-728 (1958)

The original work defining HF OFDM; just because the Patent Office will hand out patents to whoever knocks on their door first doesn't mean they invented it. Argue if you would, but the nonsense behavior of the Patent Office is a well established fact at this point.

[THINKfutureShow]

"In 1884, a small group of individuals in the electrical professions formed a new organization to support professionals in their nascent field and to aid them in their efforts to apply innovation for the betterment of humanity—the American Institute of Electrical Engineers, or AIEE. Many early leaders, such as founding President Norvin Green of Western Union, came from telegraphy. Others, like Thomas Edison, came from power, while Alexander Graham Bell represented the newer telephone industry.

[THINKfutureShow]

Where is the government funding????

[SpartanGanon777]

What about the difference between ADULT stem cell research and EMBRYONIC stem cell research? And did I hear you right, that we could throw away ethics for the sake of advancing the human race? Nazi scientists performed horrendous "scientific experiments" in the concentration camps. They may have been "advancing the human race" with some of their findings, but they were also killing and torturing innocents at the same time.

Are you sure about this? Did I hear you right?

Please help me out.

[THINKfutureShow]

Yes I did. You heard me right. We should suspend our ethical framework in order to improve humanity. Not just our ethical framework, but any regulation which is stifling innovation. There are so many voices saying "Maybe we should think about the ramifications of this" before we even know if "this" is possible. That stifles progress, stifles innovation. We have to leave science be.

[lordgyre]

No, as a matter of face, we do not have to let science be. One of the fundamental benefits of living in a democracy is that we get to choose what direction we want our society to take and if our society should embark on endeavors that we find, the society as a whole, ethically questionable.

By your reasoning, Nazi medical research, torturing humans, was well grounded in the concept of scientific innovation regardless of its ethical ramifications.

Not in my society thanks.

[THINKfutureShow]

Question: would you rather attempt to find a way to live to 500, or never even bother to try because it would probably change the fabric of human existence? Look I'm not talking about research on unwilling subjects. I'm talking about people willingly accepting the risks in order to move science forward. Like they used to...

[lordgyre]

I would rather live my "meager" existence as it is now than live another day on the backs of tortured humans in the name of science.

Perhaps you should invest in a new book... Nicomachean Ethics, and find your roots again.

Good luck.

[THINKfutureShow]

Gak: I'm not for "torturing" humans. These humans are doing this of their own free will. That's the difference.

[lordgyre]

SpartanGanon777 said: "And did I hear you right, that we could throw away ethics for the sake of advancing the human race? Nazi scientists performed horrendous "scientific experiments" in the concentration camps."

THINKfutureShow said: "Yes I did. You heard me right. We should suspend our ethical framework in order to improve humanity."

You sir, are flip-flopping. Are you sure you don't work in politics part time?

[THINKfutureShow]

lol sure i wish, at least that's a growing industry.

My overall point is: we should be able to suspend certain ethical rules and regulation in order to foster innovation. As long as these ethical rules take into account that the humans being experimented on are fully aware of the consequences of the experiment. They are ultimately the ones who get to choose their path. I don't want government telling anyone what they can/cannot do with themselves.

[lordgyre]

You open the door to deregulated voluntary human testing, you also open the door to the exploitation of the poor and destitute by corporations with money.

Is this your famous classless society? Testing on the poor by large corporations to produce a product for the better of rich humanity only?

Again, I'll pass...