DOCTOR WHO RADIO SHOW EPISODE4: EXCLUSIVE Season 5 titles, Waters of Mars Ratings & MICHAEL GRADE!

[SuperWolsey]

Grade's a douchebag

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

And I don't know about Moffat's view of heriones. I watched Couplings which was a modern day "The Tender Trap" where a group of women -- only one of them truly likable, were trying different methods of trapping these men, none of which were especially appealing, into relationships they didn't want. This is NOT 1965. I mean River is an independent, adventurous woman who ends up eternally the MATRIX in a nursery wearing a gossamer dress. Liked the dress by the way. Lol.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

A different direction doesn't mean that Moffat dissaproved of RTD's vision, but that he has a different vision of the Doctor's place, and the hero's role.

RTD Hero "SUFFERs" he is Part Messiah , part Heathcliff, part Hamlet. The femlaes: Rose is selfish, willful, but determined, brave, Martha's compassion is enabling, but she's fearless, durable;Donna is loud and funny, but smart and just. Rose is loved but doesn't grow, Martha is unloved and evolves, Donna, adored, evoles and dies.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

But back to Matt, it looks like he's back to the Classic Doctor, who sees Earth as his refuge, second home, and himself as a both teacher and student of humanity, but not our Savior. Big difference in an alien hero who is our partner in the fight against injustice, or monsters or whatever, and one who is Savior. That was an image begging for the moment in Midnight where a woman whose name he doesn't know, sacrifices her life for him.

[sixstanger00]

I prefer the classic Who then. I can't help but wonder if deep down, Moff didn't agree with how RTD was handling a legend like DW. You have to be careful that stuff - to loyal fans, it's holy ground - and RTD never stopped to think that it was HIS thoughts on DW VS. a substantial classic Who fanbase. Only RTD was in a position of power to give him the upperhand. Moff is going to great lengths to advertise the new season as a new beginning...Series 5 is Series 1, the classic look...

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

The Sexy wonderful hero does not take the fearless herione to the past, put her in a servants outfit and have her work in earnest as his chamber maid--unless he's the house butler. Excuse my French WTF was sexy or appealing about that? It made Martha look terrifically enabling, and the Doctor like an opportunistic user. Of course she walked out;

What's sexy about a man in your face yelling, or asking what good are you to him, or dimissing your questions.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

All this because the soap opera plot -- that Rose is the ultimate companion and the Doctor's one and only true love -- goodness knows why he was willing to give up everything to save and go live with Reinette! --is more important to story arc. The story arc for Seasons 1-4 was the Doctor and Rose's love story.

[sixstanger00]

@Bobsyermomsuncle Exactly. And I hated that. I don't understand why a love story is a requisite for anything sci-fi today. So in retrospect, Series 1-4's backdrops were mainly aimed at strictly a female audience....as I refer to in my vids frequently, the "Twilight" fans. I don't understand that about RTD.....why resurrect DW but instead of aiming it at an already substantial fanbase, he "overshoots" that fanbase and aims at the "Twilight" community. Thus, the DW fans are left going, "WTF??!!"

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

I'm female -- I didn't think it was directed at me. Great segments of Martha's story were questionable on a lot f levels, and Rose' conclusion -- another universe with a double...

I'm happy with a lot RTD did as far as ressurecting the Doctor. Nine was wonderful, and Angster or not, David was amazing as Ten. And because the love story was a great bit of Ten's story -- But he was all angst, and arrogance, and insensitiv to the point his "love" for humanity became his burdon.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

He became the hero that you questioned: and I wanted something like "Midnight" to happen to him. When it is the Duty of the Doctor to tell humanty how flawed it is? If Superman doesn't agree with the President ,Clark Kent votes for someone else, IThe Doctor , ousting Harriet was a vindictive act, not a moral one, and I began to wonder what direction RTD was taking the show, because he couldn't have meant the audience to think Ten manipulating the govt was "right".

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

But Ten is supposed to be sexually irrestible, and suddenly "too alien" to understand why Martha might be -- not excited -- but confused by a person who has invited her out as a guest asking her to share a bed. But David stressed that the Doctor's behavior with Martha, because fans know him to be chivarous, and kind, were supposed to shock us. But starting with his in your face accusation after he invited her out to thank, is this the way anyone treats a guest.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

But bottom line, it was not put in place to show how "alien" the Doctor is, because Alien or not, he knows better, but to prove that the Doctor is so in love with Rose, and so devastated that she is safe with her parents but not at his side, that he can even resist this tempting exoctic woman lying in close quarters to her, and go as far as to dismiss her to her face because she is not Rose.

[chrissaboy]

Cool Radio Show dudes - although I may be a little biased because am a fan of Doctor Who. Keep them comin', just subscribed.

[thatsthewayitgoes09]

Thank you Chris for subbing and hope we live up to your great standards. Not really too long till the new series and it's already mouth watering.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Well, Moffat talked about making NEW monsters, but so far these are all familiar species. I think it's time to introduce the Eternals, if for no other reason to knock the Time Lords off their high horse. They're kind of like little demi-gods. The Doctor as struggling with us, but having a better screw driver is a lot more fun to watch that all that preaching, lonely god nonsense; how and why did indpendence loving people like the Brits come up with Great Gallifreyan Messiah image?!!

[THEJONESPACK]

The Weeping Angels are in episodes 4 & 5. Episode 2 is apparantly set in a ship which features the monks with keys around their necks (as seen in the trailer).

[thatsthewayitgoes09]

Monks? Ummmm that makes the mind come up with ideas!

[sixstanger00]

Trayusstudent is right....Ep. 2, 'The Beast Below" isn't a Weeping Angels story.

And I'm happy with the title they decided on for the Dalek story. I think Raynor's 2 parter would have done better to have been called "Evolution of the Daleks" parts 1 & 2.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

I'm excited because Mark Gatiss wrote it.  It may be based on his E-novel.

[sixstanger00]

Agreed. Gatiss wrote some good ones under Davies' reign, but gosh, a Gatiss script put through a Moffat filter? Gah, I can't wait!

[thatsthewayitgoes09]

Gatiss and Moffett both admire the early days of the show and I think maybe with Moffett he'lll have free range. Like you said - the filter will liberate him instead of the Davis one which was kinda blunting perhaps?

[sixstanger00]

Agreed, but the thing is, when scripts went through the RTD filter, they may or may not have often been more along the lines of original Who, but didn't meet RTDs standards for "dumbed down, romance, and teenage drama" and so RTDs rewrites likely subsidized otherwise terriffic Who scripts. RTD always said he never rewrote Moffat's scripts.....look at the difference between a RTD plot VS. a Moff plot in the last 4 years.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@sixstanger00 Well, it is a kid's show, but I do not count out a romance agenda from a writer who was famous for creating Couplings. (Smile) But I think Moffat trust his writers. He seemed more excited to have Mark write for him because it was Mark Gatiss.

[sixstanger00]

I don't disapprove of romantic elements either, as long as they don't take centerstage in what in meant to be chiefly science fiction. For example, Moffat teased romance with Sally in "Blink," but the episode was not overwhelmingly devoted to exploring Sally's personal life....RTD on the other hand, frequently delved into such romances with DW at the expense of the sci-fi elements....like in "Doomsday."

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

True, but Moffat also wrote Girl in The Fireplace, which could be called nothing else but a pure romance.

[sixstanger00]

I agree 100% that "The Fireplace" was the most romantic story Moff wrote for DW (so far), but in his defense, it wasn't with the Doctor's companion, the Doctor didn't have moments of remorse in later episodes thinking of Reinette, and ofcourse, unlike Rose (RTDs obvious love interest for the Doctor) Reinette didn't show up out of nowhere or back from the dead at the end of every season.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Moffat's approach was 'typical' kind of story for this type of series. Doctor Who isn't Hart to Hart, although I would pull up a chair if they did Smith and Jones as a sci fi Hart/Hart with Martha and Mickey. But you just don't have Captain Kirk fall obsessively in love with Lt Uhura -- or you'll have to kill her off. The Doctor is 900 and going to live maybe a couple of hundred years more, so it's better to have a love interest as a doomed guest star or one who moves on her own adventures.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Any love affaire with a human is going to end in tears. How long will an audience put up with a hero whose main appeal is his angst and grief an loss? He's going change, the human unless she has time traveling abilities is just going to get older, which means the Doctor will just drop her/him off somewhere and pick up the next teenager who stumbles into his path.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Sally's Romance wasn't with the Doctor but with two of the "guest" stars. And I liked the flirtation and bonding with Martha and Riley in 42, would have like to see Martha and Solomon bond -- but already RTD was counting on the sopa opera plot of her falling head over arse in love with the "irrestible" Doc after two trips. Thing is with Martha, the Doctor was infant terrible, rude, moping, dismissing of concerns and feelings -- Maybe RTD thinks women like rude men. We DONT!

[sixstanger00]

Exactly - in the cases of "Blink" and "42," the romance was kept to a minimal level, so as not to overstep the initial premise of the plot. - Kind of like the Luke/Leia sort of thing from Episode IV. (that scarcely bears thinking about now, though, since in ROTJ we discovered they were brother/sister...but hey, it was a galaxy far, far away, right? RTD's first script with Martha, "Smith & Jones," has her directly stating "I'm not remotely interested." By Ep 2, she was giddy about sleeping w/ him

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Well there are two ways to look at that scene; According to David he was supposed to strip. The object of that scene was to show that Martha was attracted to the Doctor, but to the audience that although Martha was brilliant of mind and beautiful of face, body, and spirit, the Doctor was not in the least interested in her. To, the Doctor, the classic Doctor would have offered his GUEST the bed and taken the chair. I think Nine would have offered his GUEST the bed and taken the chair.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

DW would get better ratings if it were on a network, even PBS, or SyFy that people watch, but frankly BBC America, other than the news has the worst weekly line up on the telly.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Had to edit comments: As to the American audience: BBC America got One million viewers for Waters of Mars, as compared to about 40 million for the opening episode of Lost. Superbowl 160 mil. Think about it.

As to US critical reception and perception: DW is introduced here on BBC and SYFY as: "A Low Budget Cult Favorite about the journeys through the universe of a time traveling eccentric." I just copied that from my telly. People love it but it's considered more camp than SciFi.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

What is DW without Daleks...?

But Sea Devils and Vampires -- and there are Vampires. On the classic Who site, I "think" that is where I read this, the Vampires were either humans from a future earth destroyed by pollution, or aliens and long time foes of the Time Lords. Either works for me.

I'm thinking that lady in the red hood could be anyone from a Gun tooting Time Lord or Time Vigilanti like Ace, or Martha and Mickey's Daughter who is carrying on the family business.

[thatsthewayitgoes09]

Well, the vampires were from "State of Decay" and I think they're separate ones though. But you never know. They were like the ultimate enemy really ie the undead fighting Timelords. The Timelords could be considered the undead in a way.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

The Weeping Angels story involves River. I'd love to see the meddling Monk. I wonder if they're still in a Time Lock think. I think Patience (The Doctor's wife who was also the Other's wife and the Omega's wife and is about a million years old) is in some strange world with Omega--and there still the Dark Matrix.

[Trayusstudent1]

Episode 2 features an entity inside the TARDIS and I wonder if its the Celestial Toymaker due to their being a maze of death.

Weeping Angels are Episodes 4 and 5 with River Song. She'll also be in Episodes 12 and 13 along with Nick Briggs and Barnaby Edwards (Dalek finale?)

Episode 1 is supposedly lasting, as the title says, an hour.

[thatsthewayitgoes09]

Wow - thanks man that sounds VERY exciting. And I like the Toymaker suggestion as it would be nice to see a classic ONE OFF villian returning as well.