I am Indian and I believe that there is every possibility that what you are saying is truth. But who has forced the Tibetans to spread lies, have you ever realized it ? Its you and your Chinese Goverment. In the name of Modernisation of Tibet, how dare you raze their religious monastries and kill the people mercilessly. Its never too late. Surrender until its too late. Free Tibet.
The photo is real, but it was actually a picture taken in 2001 on the set of a movie called "the Touch" with Michelle Yeoh (of Memoirs of a Geisha fame)
If you don't believe me, listen to retired American Colonel Dennis Blasko (20 years as an American Intelligence officer)
check the wiki please, there is no government propoganda......stop braging about Tibet is a country......Tibet was, is and will always be a part of China
@gyniest You claim to have done your homework but yet make the same simply avoidable mistakes. The image of the evil CCP vs the poor Tibetan monks that many organizations/media try to paint is full of shit (coverage of the Tibet riots is a fine example). The ethnic Tibetans (as do all ethnic minorities) enjoy more rights than their Han counterparts and guess where the money to fund all those monasteries/poor-monks is coming from ? And yet its the Tibetans that are getting repressed...
@gyniest The reason why I put you into the group of blind brainwashed sheeps is because you make the same mistake those other sheeps make. Tibet before 1950 (even way before the 1900th) was not a separate country any more. No self-respecting historic will ever claim that Tibet was a separate country during the so called invasion. I dont think anybody (at least I'm not) is trying to deny terrible thing have happened (not only in Tibet but all of China), but lets keep out the bullshit.
Love China,not a fan of communisim. Don't need some asshole in absolute power, controlling every aspect of my life and kicking back enjoy the finer things in life after they are done depriving me. My family left Cuba cuz that shit. Just think, the Tibetan's harbor philosophies, truth, and knowledge that "modern" science runs in circles only to confirm. An the "cultural revolution" seeks to destroy that. This may be photo shop. But there is enough real shit going on over there beyond fucked up
Tibet was independent country and it is 2300 years gone, any country didn't occupy in Tibet still the 1959.
That black time ( 1959 ) Chinese army illegal occupy in Tibet. it is real true history, and not the made in China history book, never the made in China's map, or any made in China..
so you found one fake who fucking cares! FUCK CHINA! oh did they fake what happened in 1989? No so fuck you i hope your killed along with the rest of the chinese communist scum
Well if you do some checking the point about the man in the shirt is that it might be possible as the average maximum temp in Lhasa is said to be 12.2C and minimum -2.6C so i think someone could be out in a shirt certainly a short time. The quality of the video means its hard to say if the monks robes have been added. I have an open mind, but think its a bit strange if there are odd spots on the images need a much better image in order be certain.
The Dalai Lama says he wants Tibetan autonomy and political independence. Yet he allows himself to be used as a tool by western powers keen to humiliate China. Between the late 1950s and 1974, he is alleged to have received around $15,000 a month, or $180,000 a year, from the CIA. He has also been, according to the same reporter, remarkably nepotistic, promoting his brothers and their wives to positions of extraordinary power in his fiefdom-in-exile in Dharamsala, northern India
And yes, there ARE chinese agents dressed as monks in Tibet, trying to pick out activists, all tour guides warned me for them, its quite common strategy there.
@ManjuSu yes I did bother to watch it. Useles ass evidence. But: I did see Chinese agents dressed as monks in the temple, you bet!!! They look like Han Chinese, came socialize with and provike a reaction by saying anti-chinese stuff and watch response. As if a real monk would dare saying such things in a place crowding with Chinese police and soldiers! It's to test if the guide controls his tourists. It would have been a joke, if only our guide would not risk jail if WE would say somethig bad.
@0001baz Maybe you should check again with which creation software this picture was edited and then say again if it's useless. We're not talking about the monks you came along during your trip to Tibet, I'm referring to these 'monks' in this video. Which was staged (probably for a movie) if you look at the police badges and uniforms.
@ManjuSu I can't tell with Youtube quality. But still. Logic of why keeps bugging me: If a Tibetan activist wants to make PAP/PLA/XYZ look bad, and made a photo of them stepping out of a van and photoshop the robes in, why blur the license plate instead of making it extra clear for 'evidence'? If the Tibetan activists take so much effort in staging a photo, getting hold of 8 or 10 similar but wrong PLA/PAP/XYZ suits stepping out of a van? Robes are easy to get for them, why photoshop them in?
@0001baz Why? Because that picture could be taken somewhere else and not in Tibet because every province in China has its own ISO 3166-2, that's why he erased it and if you look at the uniforms in the picture then it proves that it was taken before 2005. And they didn't photoshop the robes, they photoshopped the cassocks.
I was in Tibet seen oppression and spoken to eye-whitnesses of the riots. So let's stop BS'ing, both sides! The riots were caused by frustration due to 50 years of crude Chinse oppression and unfinished business among the Tibetans themselves, but the riots were provoked by a militant faction of the Tibetans from Dharmsala. The police did not start it, even stood back 3 days hoping it 'd stop. Dalai lama rightly opposes this faction, the riot made it much worse for the tibetans, check my movie!
why chinese govt is alwaz trying to fabricate the fact.........dun u feel ashamed of all these deeds............tibetans will never ever disguise in army cloth in tibet.... how the people of tibet can do such a big thing where the country itself doesnt have right to keep the picture of dalai lama..............long live DALAI LAMA....... the chinese govt is very rich and they can fabricate every impossible to possible.........just like above
@Puntonghua So Tibetans and their defenders come from holes. They must be an inferior race. Do you deny the human rights abuses of the Chinese government? Did the world even take notice of the Tibetans killed in the tragic 2008 Sichuan earthquake? The previous riots were focused on, though with little attention as to why, but not this. The news stories focused on the deaths of the Chinese as though only their lives count. I guess it's ok for the far left to be racist when it comes to Tibetans.
@gyniest defenders or pretenders?.... Sorry but I'm not some idiot that blindly follows everything he sees on tv. Obviously China has many problems, but media propaganda that tries to paint some image of the Han vs the Tibetans (which is extremely simplifying the issue) is of course not gonna help and that includes people that use/abuse this to vent their frustration with China pretending to care about Tibetans (or any other Chinese ofr that matter) when obviously don't give a shit...
@Puntonghua Fair enough point about *some* critics of China, but by no means all, which is how you're painting. You yourself are venting frustrations, and in the process maligning an entire movement consisting of several factions, beliefs, interests, etc. IOW, you are generalizing, and filtering a complex issue through the prism of Chinese national pride, as though that's the whole story, or the only important issue here.
@gyniest BTW if you did you home work (which you obviously didnt surprise surprise =_=|||) you would not call a defender of the Dalai Lama (tracychapman009 ---> long live DALAI LAMA) a defender of Tibetans. So stop wasting my time, not mention your own...
@Puntonghua I have done my homework. Given your manner of responding it doesn't surprise me that you've jump to simplistic conclusions. You have absolutely no idea how much I know, or don't, based on one post, one which was solely a response to a bigoted dismissal of a belief in Tibetan autonomy (i.e. they crawled out of a hole). I mention the Dalai Lama. The person you dismissed mentioned Tibet not just the Dalai Lama. Sorry if pointing out your obvious blindspots is a "waste" of time.
@TibetanMuslim Muslims in Tibet were also feudal landlords, exploited peasants, and at one point conquered Tibetans (where do you think the Kalachakra Tantra mythos originated?). Dalai Lamas tolerated this based on a sort of caste system. Tibetan lamas, Mongols, Muslims, Chinese, none is morally superior in its history here. The Chinese regime routinely lies, as do Muslim propadandists, who have an obvious bias against Buddhism (and a history of unprovoked brutality against Buddhists).
You don't see an Indian national or Italian or Mexican, unhappy with anything in his or her own country go seek assistance from another country to attack his own country. Its like asking your neighbour to attack your parents just because you don't fully agree with them. That's the problem with you Zang ethnic minority (Tibetan) of Xizang, China. Whatever grievances you have with your motherland, China, the doors to peaceful discussions has always been open to your leaders.
Those stupid western media wish to demonize China, it is only a scene of a movie, where the military police of china is helping to shoot a movie, Michelle Yiong later confirmed that. If one wish to slander China, please go to do some research but not this kind of fake allegation!
@bobowai Good point. Let's look at genuine, and documented, human rights abuses, and not just in China. There's no shortage of it. No one has a monopoly on it, not Europe, not the Occident, not Russia, not Africa, not Islamic civilization, not the Far East. All these so-called blocs have things in their past, and present, to not be proud of. But naturally, people want to defend their own people, whether justified or not. Few people like fingers pointed at them. Basic psychology.
do Chinese people in China ever asked themself why Their TV, News and internet is control by their government?Is it because China Government hiding something they don't want people to know?.the only place anywhere else that does this is North Korea haha.
jennyxio4: Ehm sorry, but censoring happens everywhere, the difference with you and people in China is that they are aware of it, and apparently you're not so aware of it...
yeah, we used to describle the people who always show his advantages as "don't be so CCTV" , now we describe people who always tell lies as" don't be so CNN".
people should ask why is this jenny so full of snti china shit ??? is she perhaps the mistress of a fucking monk ???? she got to be another potential suicidal terrorist waiting to explode with a bomb !!!!!!
The photo shop claim was a good guess, but the photo is legitimate. The photo was initially published in a 2003 free Tibet newsletter, not in 2008.
The photo could have been taken any time previous 2003.
"ICT does not regard this photo as credible evidence of Chinese soldiers disguising themselves as Buddhist monks during unrest in Lhasa last month. This image is most likely from a movie set in which soldiers dressed as monks to serve as extras".
Regardless of what I just said the evidence regarding the uniform is pretty strong - just saying who knows what to believe when both sides are using vague evidence to make a point.
I have to admit I'm pretty undecided on this... Some of the evidence of photoshop work is very dubious... I'm a graphic designer and when you blow up low res images hands will be blurred small print like that on the number plate would not be visible and "green near the cassock" could be anything - Also there is no way of knowing what version of photoshop is being used unless you have the original psd file, plenty of people use photoshop 7, even in industry (and im not sure what point this makes)
Sarkozy trying to distract people form his pathetic leadership...Muslim riots....failing French economy..rising unemployment in the West...trying to drag China down with their sinking ship.
The movie where the extras playing monks is called "The Tough,", internationally released in 2002. Director: Peter Pau. Main cast: Michelle Yeoh (Crouching Tiger) and Ben Chaplin (Birthday Girl). Not a remarkable film but worth your rental fee, given the controversy now. Freeze frame at 93 min 40 sec and at 96 min 9 sec and you will see the Chinese guys playing monks. I did this bit of research and feel that you will do yourself a favor to find out the truth by watching it.
You may feel I could do myself a favour by watching this, but I feel it uneccesry. I saw the photo in Epoch times and found it odd. However, my question has been answered adequately and I'm aware of the global research article in the subject of Tibet and the CIA's'Great game'. My next question is: Can I please watch World Snooker? :-)
when i saw this vedio, i am so angry, on the other hand, i commiserate these foreign people, because they were hoodwinked by some so-called "truths". Some of them who were never been china, they even don't know chinese culture, social situation, they don't know when chinese filmmaker need a large scene,they could apply a support from chinese soldier, who could be figurant in the film backgroud sometimes, because, it's a easy way to get a large quantity figurant and cheap.
and wat is london doing abt its pollution problem? man i've stayed in uk for yrs, and in london, less than a day, the insides of your nose turns black! ew!
and wat is london doing abt its pollution problem? man i've stayed in uk for yrs, and in london, less than a day, the insides of your nose turns black! ew!
and wat is london doing abt its pollution problem? man i've stayed in uk for yrs, and in london, less than a day, the insides of your nose turns black! ew!
Yes, I understood you the first time! And point taken. Firstly, cities such as Leeds do not have a serious polution problem, but London certainly does. Secondly, I have recently heard that China has moved some factories away from the cities. But the environmnent is still causing a problem in terms of dust storms. I believe China can get through this. The environment is a world issue and something we can all agree on.
@SinoWestR A world problem absolutely, and yet nothing could get done at the Copenhagen summit, not even bland non-binding agreements. Beyond sad. How shitty international relations/politics is.
The Apache in America are not the same people, they have different backgrounds, language and even their own symbolic flag ...you can see the difference just by looking at them SO PLEASE AMERICA FREE THE APACHE LAND.
@yhw111 Wouldn't the first step be to move the Bureau of Indian Affairs out of the Interior Dept.? It's still, to this day, a rather one-sided relationship.
The Ainu in Japan are not the same people, they have different backgrounds, language and even their own heritage flag ...you can see the difference just by looking at them SO PLEASE JAPAN FREE THE AINU LAND.
The Aborigine in Australia are not the same people, they have different backgrounds, language and even their own aborigine flag ...you can see the difference just by looking at them SO PLEASE AUSTRALIA FREE THE ABORIGINE LAND.
My impression is that for many Europeans & Americans all Asians have the same face. Nothing wonderful in hearing this from people, who can't distinguish between Filippino & Thais - completely different anthropological types. The same is true in a case of Chinese & Tibetans: they belong to different anthropological types. Though again nothing wonderful: if CNN & BBC tried to represent Nepali police as a Chinese one, I shan't be surprised at anything after that.
please understand that nobody is against Chinese peolpe! That is a common misunderstanding. i just returned from a speech of a Chinese author called xu pei and what she had to say was very interesting. Check it out. I have been reeding as much as I can and so far have not found a single person who is criticising Chinese peolpe, it is directed towards the communist party. In history there were times when half of China was part of Tibet also, so? If Tibet was part of China, why take it by force?
turibob: China did not take Tibet by force... The gouverment put an end to the theocracy. The majority of the people were slaves of the lama's/monks.. Tibet was ruled by warlords, that happend, because before the gouverment stepped in China was in a weaked by invasions by foreign countries and by a civil war...
@Puntonghua No force? No soldiers were used? No murders? No rapes? No use of arms? "Warlords" (with hardly a standing army to defend itself)? It was not separate territory? Yes, I'm the one who hasn't done *my* homework. Man, if you want the information, there's reams of it out there. I mean, I never claimed you believe everything in the Chinese media, yet you defensively had to claim as such to my post. He who doth protest too much!
If you (the west) spead lies about a country, it is going to hurt the feeling of the people living that country. It does not matter if it is pointed against the gouverment or not.
This is not just true of the Chinese or any one particular people. You think there are no lies against the West, or anyone else in the world? Or are only your feelings relevant here?
@turibob The problem is that some people in the Free Tibet movement do malign Chinese culture as a whole. Even Robert Thurman, who makes statements like the Chinese have "always" been war-like and aggressive. It's unfair, untrue, and helps neither side.
furthermore I like Chinese culture and my Chinese friends, but I am Tibetan and i love my own culture as well, and it is dying.
Please try to understand that we are trying to survive and after 50 years under Chinese rule people are still protesting. Why?
And what would you do in my place?
We could live peacefully together and profit from one another! Loving your country and culture does not mean you have to defend you government actions by all means. Look at Hu Jia, he loves China !
turibob: I respect you and wanting to preserve your culture... But I do not believe the story about Tibet being invaded by China 50 years ago. It is always mentioned that China invaded Tibet 50 years ago, but for example if you look at maps of more than 50 years ago you cannot even find Tibet on the map, only China. In the media they almost not mention about Britain's role in Tibet, or what the so called holy lama did to the people living in Tibet... so I do not buy that
your explanation regarding international press seems a little too simple for me. they always mentioned that there were Chinese victims, didn´t they? Did Chinese media mention dead Tibetans?
Who has the competence to decide the status of Tibet? I believe people who have studied international law. The international commission of jurists has repeatedly stated that Tibet was an independent country. To me they are more competent than sinologits, tibetologists and historians.
...and they have stated this in the sixties...and again and again. There was no China-bashing at that time, or do you disagree? anyway, we have our own language, writing, religion, dances, songs, anything that makes a people a people, right? So why can´t we just practise our relgion and language, what is so wrong with that?regardless of tibet´s status, we seek autonomy to keep our culture alive. the dalai lama has been trying this for 22 years now, seeking only autonomy.
turibob: Allot of people here in the west think that the Chinese people know nothing and are being brainwashed by their goverment. But they don't realise that they are the one who are brainwashed ---> protesting on the street like idiots shouting FREE TIBET when not even knowing the history of Tubet and China themself. But ofcourse if it is on television it has to be true, because here in the FREE WEST the goverment does not lie to it's people for it's own agenda... preety naive dont you think
puntonghua:nobody wants the systems that existed 60 years ago, take a look at China back then and how it developed. Look what was going on in Russia or Germany at that time. We would have made progress as well, maybe not as fast as other countries,but if you point out the system in Tibet in the 40ies then please compare it to the rest of the world. So give back the argument that all Westerns are brainwashed, then you aren´t any better than them....Nobody believes in media unconditionally!
turibob: I did not say all the westerners are brainwashed, I said most westerners. But I guess brainwashed is not correct word. Ignorance is a better word. ''Nobody believes in media unconditionally'' tell that to the people that are protesting for things they don't even know anything about.
Puntonghua: hm, one comment got lost....i was referring to the Status of Tibet, because you accuse peolpe of being ignorant.And i wonder why you think Tibet belongs to China?You say international law and Western vies dons´t matter, then you say, Western countries do not see Tibet as a sovereign country. What is your knowledge of when Tibet became China. We are not the same peolpe, in no way, we have different ethinc backgrounds...you can see the difference just by looking at us...
I did not say international law did not matter... And it is true that no country recognizes Tibet as a country --> for obvious reasons... I don't know what you mean by we are in no means the same, because I have never claimed all the people in China are from the same ethnic group (if you area what you claim to be, you should know that)...
I think it is wrong to accuse people of just envying someone if the criticise...It sounds exactely like Americans who whenever you ask them why they think they are not very popular in the rest of the world, they always say, that other nations are only jealous, because they are the most powerful nation.
Why do you think we have so much support from Chinese people? They demonstrate with us. You must know someone who is falun gong or a democrat and what happened to them, don´t you?
turibob: America is not China... China does not attack countries because it does not agree with their way of doing things, China does not tell other countries what do do or not. A weak China is a good China in the eyes of the west. A strong China is a problem in they eye of the west. And when I talk about the west I talk about US and EU.
...there were different explanations of Chinese officials regarding as of why Tibet belonged to China. From a treaty, signed by our regent,to some marriage with a chinese princess and so forth. Today they take maps and claim that there was no Tibet. there would be a lot of countries who would not exist today. Under Songtsen Gampo we conquered half of Asia. Other times you conquered us. In fact I believe that Tibetan- Chinese relations backe then were probabely better for both sides.
@Puntonghua Both the Maoists and Kuomintang committed mass violence in the 20th century in the high thousands. And China most certainly did attack the Tibetan kingdom. You yourself used the argument that the Tibetan lifestyle (i.e. theocracy) necessitated intervention ("ending it" in your words) as China didn't like their ways of doing things in their land. And how about Uigurs "way of doing things?" And military clashes w/ Taiwan? China isn't weak either - the US is in debt to its bond-holders.
...and what do you think of them? Do you believe they are less patriotic? Harry Wu?, Victor Chan,Wei Jingsheng?
We will not agree on the Status of Tibet,but it is an explanation why there are few Tibetans who want independence, this is out understanding on the issue. No matter how we disagree though, we are in a dialogue and that is good!
@Puntonghua Do you even know a single person participating therein? Or are you just assuming and generalizing? And I never even said you were "brainwashed," never used the term, I just happen to think you are very one-sided and won't even consider the possibility that it's wrong.
turibob: You wanted a explination, and you got one. Why let someone in that already spreads lies about you.. There is a reason that no country recognizes Tibet as a country but as a province of China, and no international law is gonna change that... Tibet was already a part of China long before the intenational law...
@Puntonghua No more than China was once part of greater Mongolia. I realize you seem to think all Westerners are brainwashed and gullible, but come on. Tibet was a protectorate with a separate ruler, and the Manchu dynasty had already dissolved decades before 1950. Tibet was not part of a modern Chinese federal state at that point.
@Puntonghua Not true, it was on maps. As for Britain, they failed to colonize Tibet after 1904, or enforce the McMahon line w/ China, just as they failed to colonize mainland Chinese (but did take over maritime territory, not to mention India, thus controlling the opium trade amongst other things). Britain didn't have direct or even indirect control over Tibetan resources either. They couldn't even get Afghanistan. In this "great game" Russia clearly had the upper hand.
so sad, no matter what western media is doing, it is not nearly as bad as chinese media....everyone has to agree with that. how can you criticise something that you do yourself and even to a greater extend????
this is why the rest of the world laughs at you people who have no real knowledge about what is going on in your own country!
turibob: It sis quite sad that the western media has to lie to get ignorant fools like you to watch in order to get money... The chinese media may not be honest, but it does not demonises other countries based on mere asumptions... How do you know that Chinese people don't know what is going on their own country... Let me give you a tip ---> don't believe eveything you see on TV I assume you got brains ---> so used them...
@0311ohrah He's a biased Marxist who's already been discredited. He's not even an expert on Tibet! He *solely* uses Chinese sources of material, that's it. Old news.
i do not believe everything is see on tv...so we have something in common after all;)
but of course there are a lot of assumptions as of why the Chinese government does not allow international journalists to report. What do you think is the true reason? I have Chinese friends in China who themselves complain about not knowing for sure what is going on there and in Tibet. Why would they lie to me?
turibob: I think the reason they do not allow international journalists into Tibet is pretty clear. Whenever it comes to Tibet most of the western media wants to twist the truth. The international journalists are far from honest or fair when it comes to China. Even with the little information the media here has, they still manages to twist facts and make up lies...
The movie where the extras playing monks is called "The Tough,", internationally released in 2002. Director: Peter Pau. Main cast: Michelle Yeoh (Crouching Tiger) and Ben Chaplin (Birthday Girl). Not a remarkable film but worth your rental fee, given the controversy now. Freeze frame at 93 min 40 sec and at 96 min 9 sec and you will see the Chinese guys playing monks. I did this bit of research and feel that you will do yourself a favor to find out the truth by watching it.
this is a lie!! this picture is a recent picture taken by the BRITISH GOVERNMENT communications agency.
PHOTO SHOP U MAKE ME LAUGH and show me how serious face should look like when the people could get 26 or more years in jail just a the right move on the wrong time.
(1) Dalai Lama is hopeless, American government wont do anything do help the 'Free Tibet" assholes.s. America is neither willing nor capable to change China policy. All what American politicians can so is to bluff.
In 1991 Bill Clinton vowed to trade sanction China once he would be in power. What happen after. Nothing and nothing
.(2) So why did he bluff. He bluffed not to impress Chinese people or government but to fool stupid American voters to get their votes.
Same thing for Segolene Royal the French presidential candidate. Nicolas Sarkozy criticicized her being too soft and inexperienced in foreign policy. So what she did 2 months before the presidential election -- she made a trip to Beijing , welcomed by a vice premier (No.5 of the Government of China
)(3). After enjoying herself in Beijing and on her return to Paris, she pretended to have bullied her host rgd "human rights" and Tibet issues. Ha Ha -- very big joke -- What she only did was she only fooled the stupd French voters to get their votes.
(4)So to all "Free Tibet " assholes in youtube: If you see some European or American flex their muscles and talk shit to China regarding Tibet province, mind you they are taking you for REAL IDIOTS.and we Chinese laugh each time your politicians talk these shits.
@edvan88 Oh wow, I wasn't aware of this. I didn't know China has America by the balls. I didn't know how much the U.S. economy relies on Chinese exports. Gee, I really thought these political gestures would change things, that our two major parties really cared, that the far right or far left don't have a stake in defending China, that a verbal reprimand would work wonders, unlike all of America's other attempts to do something about human rights abuses in the last century. I see the light...
Bloody hell, Dalai Lama has hijacked the Western media!!!
Now the West do not look at the facts and try to make up stories for Dalai Lama.
March 2008 in Tibet is an organised crime by the separatist. However, China, it's your mistake. You should not have undertaken the Tiananmen Massacre. Whatever Dalai Lama says now will be true to the West.
We got crazy folks outs here.....we dont blame y'll for who you are.....you guys have been brought with a some idea stuck in your head and it has stuck so bad that taking out would be like killing yourself but that doesnt mean you are right....may be someday your voice gets crashed for interest of the govt then still, we'll be backing you up.
Tibetan platuea is a military strategic spot. the Russian, British, U.S. all wanted to dominate this land. if they can do it in manchu time, they loss their chance. check "CIA in Tibet" on U-Tube.
Puntonghua, good job n the uniform invesitgation. And don't spend too much time on dumb ass kevincrazy21. He might be practicing Tantrism with Tibetan girl friend. It will makes him thinking that way.
I'm glad that China's side in this issue is coming to light and thank you for your posts. I worry about the chinese nationals who don't have full access to media though. If China is to "free" tibet (Give them more freedoms, not necessarily let them secede), then China needs to free CHINA, not just tibet. Where are the Falun Gong (sp?) now? I heard they were persecuted throughout china. Tibet gets most of the attention but all over China there are groups that are abused. Free China first.
to the chinese people who doesn't know the truth.. the riot is instigated by the chinese govt in order for them to use force against the peaceful protester. They used the same strategy against your own people back in 1989 and if you remember it tinamen square massarcare.... c'mon grow up... you people should analyze on both side of the story and come to the conclusion and not just by what you have seen your state run tv and accompanied by your nationalism.. search for the truth.
pedromendeso: You come with your bullshit... ''the riot is instigated by the chinese govt in order for them to use force against the peaceful protester'' and then you come with your advice ---> ''search for the truth''. Dont you think it is time to start taking your own advice, and use your brains for once instead of being brainwashed by the media...
You dummies. If Tibet was part of China since the ancient times, why would the tibetans fight againt Chinese. If Tibet was part of China since the ancient times, wouldn't Tibetans call themselves Chinese? Who are you trying to fool? People in the free world will not buy this idiotic claim. Free Tibet.
you guys are simply refusing the truth...if you can't accept the truth...there will come a time when it will haunt u too...patriotism is good...but Tibetans, Falun gong Followers, and other mainland chinese who are suffering is human too aren't they?? seems like you totally forgot about tiannamen square massacre...
kevincrazy21: Like I already said ---> Before you start to prove a point you should know what you are talking about... I do not refuse anything, but before you want people to take you seriously, you should atleast know the bigger picture of what is actually going on. a puzzle does not exist of only 1 piece... Like Falun gong Followers, what do you actually know about that whole issue apart from the western view on it, which tends to use every little negetive thing against China in a unfair way
When you see a falung gong protesters in the west, there aint much to talk bout....people can't raise their voice in their own land, so the best way is to raise their ovoice in a free country. Tell me why, Chinese govt is censoring all the protest goin around rite now in chinese new channel and papers...what about that chinese activist who got arrested recently...i know enough bout falung gong and I definately know whole lot about Tibet..so please dont think I dont know anything...
Well do think you don't know anything based on your comments... if you want to be taken seriously don't post nonsense... the protest that happened in London was reported on cctv4 and also in the newspaper in China... I saw everything on CCTV4 what I also saw on BBC, so much for your ''Tell me why, Chinese govt is censoring all the protest going around rite now in Chinese new channel and papers''. If you really know so much you would been more responsible with what you write don't you think??
''people can't raise their voice in their own land''... It is not so simple as that. People can state their opinion as long if they don't cause unrest. It is always easy to point another countries problems. But which country with a population has manage to keep things as stable and organized as China... Hu Jia knew what he was doing, and he also knew what the consequences were...
you guys are simply refusing the truth...if you can't accept the truth...there will come a time when it will haunt u too...patriotism is good...but Iraqis, David Caresh Followers, and other mainland Americans who are suffering is human too aren't they?? seems like you totally forgot about Waco massacre...
check on 700 AD Tibetan Impire. if you say 700 AD is not not ancient time. American Indians should have their lands return to them. Just live with in!! The Huns have been living with Hui, Mongol, Manchu since ancient time.
Yakmanok, check on 700 AD Tibetan Impire. if you say 700 AD is not not ancient time. American Indians should have their lands return to them. Just live with in!! The Huns have been living with Hui, Mongol, Manchu since ancient time.
@yakmanok They response is either: 1.) The Tibetan feudals are the ones instigating this, or 2.) It's whipped up by Western capitalist countries. The possibility than an "ordinary" Tibetan, thinking independently, could conclude that they are separate and have their own rights is thus de-legitimized from the outset.
China and India are both churning out more engineers than the US and EU combined.
Meaning the wealth will shift to these developing countries in the next ten years.
The only way for the US to compete is to bully weaker nations in wars for profit.
Which is going on right now.
Bush has bankrupt several companies prior to be "elected" as president. And no surprise he has bankrupt the United States as well with his war for profits in Iraq and Afghanistan.
@silversurfervenus Fair points (except the prospect of actually profiting from a war in Afghanistan is a longshot, even with a Caspian oil pipe deal). But there's been antagonism between India & China, even a brief war in the 60's. Nepal is still a flashing point, as it involved Hindus vs. Maoists (also a problem in Indian politics, concerning communists and rightwing parties). And there are also territory disputes. For the 2 countries become the next superpowers, they'll have to work this out.
FukaLama - there are many Tibetans living in China who practice religion and speak their language freely. The only thing that is banned, is pictures of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan flag.
Tibetan children in Chinese schools are treated as individuals and equals under communists doctrine, there is no racism/ethnic discrimination.
Majority of Chinese classrooms are multi ethnic with Han, Hui, Mongolian, Tibetan, Korean, Muslim, etc. students.
I was from mainland China. I had nothing to go against Dalai Lama when I was just out of China even though I knew Dalai Lama was trying to separate Tibet from China.
Later, I read his autobiography and other publications and realized he was a total liar (I recommend all Chinese read his autobiography just to see how he lied in his own words)
yea u mean the true things is tat thre is lot of killing n genocides in tibet by the chinese police.everyone knws the true colour of chinese face.ok all the killings n torturing tibetans were hide by chinese.they even blocked all the news which has shown the bloodshed of tibetans by chinese police.better u ask ur elders if they have sense of telling truth.how the tibetans were treating by the chinesse govt.
You should stop putting something you did onto someone else's head.
It's the Europeans who committed genocide all over the world. Wiped out many native people, and took their lands, and set up new white countries in the name of "freedom", then kidnap blacks from Africa and sold them as slaves...the list go on. Even today, there are over 2000 chemical dumping sites in the U.S. Most are near reservations and other minority populated areas.
I am Indian and I believe that there is every possibility that what you are saying is truth. But who has forced the Tibetans to spread lies, have you ever realized it ? Its you and your Chinese Goverment. In the name of Modernisation of Tibet, how dare you raze their religious monastries and kill the people mercilessly. Its never too late. Surrender until its too late. Free Tibet.
mysticrosemale 5 months ago
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When the world wakes up it will see that China is the villain.
unit45x 9 months ago
Good job. Short, sweet and to the point!
bleupeony2 10 months ago
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FRee Tibet,Boycott China boycott totalitarian brainwashing dictaterships
swordofpakistan 1 year ago
flimsy evidence. very poor.
Leonardisto 1 year ago
The photo is real, but it was actually a picture taken in 2001 on the set of a movie called "the Touch" with Michelle Yeoh (of Memoirs of a Geisha fame)
If you don't believe me, listen to retired American Colonel Dennis Blasko (20 years as an American Intelligence officer)
/watch?v=4DQ1_ldLBGk
Isn't the internet great?
PrometheanRunGood 1 year ago
@PrometheanRunGood /watch?v=I7_-Xie1aiE lol... it was extras from a movie.
SaltWaterDiatoms 1 year ago
hao ,good,
q1w2e3r4127 1 year ago
check the wiki please, there is no government propoganda......stop braging about Tibet is a country......Tibet was, is and will always be a part of China
playtoday2009 1 year ago
@gyniest oh BTW I'm not Chinese so your ''Chinese national pride'' argument ain't gonna cut it...
Puntonghua 1 year ago
@gyniest You claim to have done your homework but yet make the same simply avoidable mistakes. The image of the evil CCP vs the poor Tibetan monks that many organizations/media try to paint is full of shit (coverage of the Tibet riots is a fine example). The ethnic Tibetans (as do all ethnic minorities) enjoy more rights than their Han counterparts and guess where the money to fund all those monasteries/poor-monks is coming from ? And yet its the Tibetans that are getting repressed...
Puntonghua 1 year ago
@Puntonghua I don't believe the chinese government is funding monasteries if they are burning all of them down.
thunderdragon14 6 months ago
@gyniest The reason why I put you into the group of blind brainwashed sheeps is because you make the same mistake those other sheeps make. Tibet before 1950 (even way before the 1900th) was not a separate country any more. No self-respecting historic will ever claim that Tibet was a separate country during the so called invasion. I dont think anybody (at least I'm not) is trying to deny terrible thing have happened (not only in Tibet but all of China), but lets keep out the bullshit.
Puntonghua 1 year ago
中国万岁!!!!!
plovakia 1 year ago
fuck china!!!!! cancer of the word!!!!
ggcc72 1 year ago
Love China,not a fan of communisim. Don't need some asshole in absolute power, controlling every aspect of my life and kicking back enjoy the finer things in life after they are done depriving me. My family left Cuba cuz that shit. Just think, the Tibetan's harbor philosophies, truth, and knowledge that "modern" science runs in circles only to confirm. An the "cultural revolution" seeks to destroy that. This may be photo shop. But there is enough real shit going on over there beyond fucked up
MADMANJIBARO 1 year ago
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Tibet was independent country and it is 2300 years gone, any country didn't occupy in Tibet still the 1959.
That black time ( 1959 ) Chinese army illegal occupy in Tibet. it is real true history, and not the made in China history book, never the made in China's map, or any made in China..
lewei111 1 year ago
the content of this vid is great, but the keyboard tapping sound is so annoying that i have to mute it
lvzhendong 2 years ago
so you found one fake who fucking cares! FUCK CHINA! oh did they fake what happened in 1989? No so fuck you i hope your killed along with the rest of the chinese communist scum
123321444 2 years ago
FREE TIBET
FUCK CHINA
FUCK MAO TSE TUNG
AbrahamValdelomar 2 years ago
Why don't you start by fucking yourself =_=|||
Puntonghua 2 years ago
Lol owned
OMGdomisere 2 years ago
@AbrahamValdelomar FUCK YOURSELF FIRSTLY
jccer 2 years ago
@AbrahamValdelomar Dont be stupid.
MrAllanduck 2 years ago
Well if you do some checking the point about the man in the shirt is that it might be possible as the average maximum temp in Lhasa is said to be 12.2C and minimum -2.6C so i think someone could be out in a shirt certainly a short time. The quality of the video means its hard to say if the monks robes have been added. I have an open mind, but think its a bit strange if there are odd spots on the images need a much better image in order be certain.
cultofmao 2 years ago
The Dalai Lama says he wants Tibetan autonomy and political independence. Yet he allows himself to be used as a tool by western powers keen to humiliate China. Between the late 1950s and 1974, he is alleged to have received around $15,000 a month, or $180,000 a year, from the CIA. He has also been, according to the same reporter, remarkably nepotistic, promoting his brothers and their wives to positions of extraordinary power in his fiefdom-in-exile in Dharamsala, northern India
hisphoninesss 2 years ago
just as many American spy sats above our heads :P
dl41o8 2 years ago
And yes, there ARE chinese agents dressed as monks in Tibet, trying to pick out activists, all tour guides warned me for them, its quite common strategy there.
0001baz 2 years ago 2
@0001baz Ever bothered to watch the video you're commenting on?
ManjuSu 1 year ago
@ManjuSu yes I did bother to watch it. Useles ass evidence. But: I did see Chinese agents dressed as monks in the temple, you bet!!! They look like Han Chinese, came socialize with and provike a reaction by saying anti-chinese stuff and watch response. As if a real monk would dare saying such things in a place crowding with Chinese police and soldiers! It's to test if the guide controls his tourists. It would have been a joke, if only our guide would not risk jail if WE would say somethig bad.
0001baz 1 year ago
@0001baz Maybe you should check again with which creation software this picture was edited and then say again if it's useless. We're not talking about the monks you came along during your trip to Tibet, I'm referring to these 'monks' in this video. Which was staged (probably for a movie) if you look at the police badges and uniforms.
ManjuSu 1 year ago
@ManjuSu I can't tell with Youtube quality. But still. Logic of why keeps bugging me: If a Tibetan activist wants to make PAP/PLA/XYZ look bad, and made a photo of them stepping out of a van and photoshop the robes in, why blur the license plate instead of making it extra clear for 'evidence'? If the Tibetan activists take so much effort in staging a photo, getting hold of 8 or 10 similar but wrong PLA/PAP/XYZ suits stepping out of a van? Robes are easy to get for them, why photoshop them in?
0001baz 1 year ago
@0001baz Why? Because that picture could be taken somewhere else and not in Tibet because every province in China has its own ISO 3166-2, that's why he erased it and if you look at the uniforms in the picture then it proves that it was taken before 2005. And they didn't photoshop the robes, they photoshopped the cassocks.
ManjuSu 1 year ago
I was in Tibet seen oppression and spoken to eye-whitnesses of the riots. So let's stop BS'ing, both sides! The riots were caused by frustration due to 50 years of crude Chinse oppression and unfinished business among the Tibetans themselves, but the riots were provoked by a militant faction of the Tibetans from Dharmsala. The police did not start it, even stood back 3 days hoping it 'd stop. Dalai lama rightly opposes this faction, the riot made it much worse for the tibetans, check my movie!
0001baz 2 years ago
why chinese govt is alwaz trying to fabricate the fact.........dun u feel ashamed of all these deeds............tibetans will never ever disguise in army cloth in tibet.... how the people of tibet can do such a big thing where the country itself doesnt have right to keep the picture of dalai lama..............long live DALAI LAMA....... the chinese govt is very rich and they can fabricate every impossible to possible.........just like above
tracychapman009 2 years ago
Please crawl back into whatever hole you came out =_=|||
Puntonghua 2 years ago
@Puntonghua So Tibetans and their defenders come from holes. They must be an inferior race. Do you deny the human rights abuses of the Chinese government? Did the world even take notice of the Tibetans killed in the tragic 2008 Sichuan earthquake? The previous riots were focused on, though with little attention as to why, but not this. The news stories focused on the deaths of the Chinese as though only their lives count. I guess it's ok for the far left to be racist when it comes to Tibetans.
gyniest 1 year ago
@gyniest defenders or pretenders?.... Sorry but I'm not some idiot that blindly follows everything he sees on tv. Obviously China has many problems, but media propaganda that tries to paint some image of the Han vs the Tibetans (which is extremely simplifying the issue) is of course not gonna help and that includes people that use/abuse this to vent their frustration with China pretending to care about Tibetans (or any other Chinese ofr that matter) when obviously don't give a shit...
Puntonghua 1 year ago
@Puntonghua Fair enough point about *some* critics of China, but by no means all, which is how you're painting. You yourself are venting frustrations, and in the process maligning an entire movement consisting of several factions, beliefs, interests, etc. IOW, you are generalizing, and filtering a complex issue through the prism of Chinese national pride, as though that's the whole story, or the only important issue here.
gyniest 1 year ago
@gyniest BTW if you did you home work (which you obviously didnt surprise surprise =_=|||) you would not call a defender of the Dalai Lama (tracychapman009 ---> long live DALAI LAMA) a defender of Tibetans. So stop wasting my time, not mention your own...
Puntonghua 1 year ago
@Puntonghua I have done my homework. Given your manner of responding it doesn't surprise me that you've jump to simplistic conclusions. You have absolutely no idea how much I know, or don't, based on one post, one which was solely a response to a bigoted dismissal of a belief in Tibetan autonomy (i.e. they crawled out of a hole). I mention the Dalai Lama. The person you dismissed mentioned Tibet not just the Dalai Lama. Sorry if pointing out your obvious blindspots is a "waste" of time.
gyniest 1 year ago
tracy, don't try to put your moral values in the minds of ppl wich you know nothing of.
RedHotGoku 2 years ago 2
not all americans make up shit. just the media and some no lifes.
xx8visionSxx 2 years ago
maby u right, but WTF are china doing ther, get out jews off the east
arthurvelling 2 years ago
this is the preparation for a movie.....
I think, the one who post this video should be arrested, because apparently he or she does not know the truth, while just uploading lies
vxtecom 2 years ago
just because it's different from what you think doesn't mean it's a lie.
RedHotGoku 2 years ago
dalai lama is so a lier .....
vxtecom 2 years ago
LOL. Nice TRY. This is a shot from Tibet where they were shooting a movie called "The Touch" starring Michelle Yeoh.
The "soldiers" were given monks outfit to prepare for a scene.
Nice try though.
biada2 2 years ago 4
You don't need a Chinese heart or even like China, you just need to be honest, you will know how many lies the Dalai Lama is telling the world.
TibetanMuslim 3 years ago
@TibetanMuslim Muslims in Tibet were also feudal landlords, exploited peasants, and at one point conquered Tibetans (where do you think the Kalachakra Tantra mythos originated?). Dalai Lamas tolerated this based on a sort of caste system. Tibetan lamas, Mongols, Muslims, Chinese, none is morally superior in its history here. The Chinese regime routinely lies, as do Muslim propadandists, who have an obvious bias against Buddhism (and a history of unprovoked brutality against Buddhists).
gyniest 1 year ago
thier getting dressed up for a movie you morons
CaptainCool07 3 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
You don't see an Indian national or Italian or Mexican, unhappy with anything in his or her own country go seek assistance from another country to attack his own country. Its like asking your neighbour to attack your parents just because you don't fully agree with them. That's the problem with you Zang ethnic minority (Tibetan) of Xizang, China. Whatever grievances you have with your motherland, China, the doors to peaceful discussions has always been open to your leaders.
Globalvisual 3 years ago
if dllm use this picture to back him up, he just shew the world what a stupid liar he was, or how his people made him a liar.
dllm should learn how to use google, before he made any claim, better give a tripple check via google.
magnietuit 3 years ago
HAHAHA! Stupid !
davin9876 3 years ago
the soldiers were required to wear lama robe for a film, which is made in 2001, "The Touch". Michelle Yeoh was the major actress.
the soldiers were group actors.
magnietuit 3 years ago 9
Those stupid western media wish to demonize China, it is only a scene of a movie, where the military police of china is helping to shoot a movie, Michelle Yiong later confirmed that. If one wish to slander China, please go to do some research but not this kind of fake allegation!
bobowai 3 years ago 13
@bobowai Good point. Let's look at genuine, and documented, human rights abuses, and not just in China. There's no shortage of it. No one has a monopoly on it, not Europe, not the Occident, not Russia, not Africa, not Islamic civilization, not the Far East. All these so-called blocs have things in their past, and present, to not be proud of. But naturally, people want to defend their own people, whether justified or not. Few people like fingers pointed at them. Basic psychology.
gyniest 1 year ago
Conduct self being not able to very CNN
jiangfzmg 3 years ago
do Chinese people in China ever asked themself why Their TV, News and internet is control by their government?Is it because China Government hiding something they don't want people to know?.the only place anywhere else that does this is North Korea haha.
jennyxio4 3 years ago
jennyxio4: Ehm sorry, but censoring happens everywhere, the difference with you and people in China is that they are aware of it, and apparently you're not so aware of it...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
Nicely done Puntonghua, those people who make these lies must shame on theirselves
RedHotGoku 3 years ago
Thanks :-)
Puntonghua 3 years ago
yeah, we used to describle the people who always show his advantages as "don't be so CCTV" , now we describe people who always tell lies as" don't be so CNN".
shaya001 3 years ago
we are not blind, we are not deef.we use brain.
shaya001 3 years ago
jennyxio4
people should ask why is this jenny so full of snti china shit ??? is she perhaps the mistress of a fucking monk ???? she got to be another potential suicidal terrorist waiting to explode with a bomb !!!!!!
goldenkey007 3 years ago
u retard~~~u know nothing about china~~ so STFU
zhuowu 3 years ago
This picture is from the movie man !!!
basiclifej 3 years ago 3
This is another typical China-bashing footage
trusted by many gullible westerners.
paulho8 3 years ago
The photo shop claim was a good guess, but the photo is legitimate. The photo was initially published in a 2003 free Tibet newsletter, not in 2008.
The photo could have been taken any time previous 2003.
"ICT does not regard this photo as credible evidence of Chinese soldiers disguising themselves as Buddhist monks during unrest in Lhasa last month. This image is most likely from a movie set in which soldiers dressed as monks to serve as extras".
Lordofthenipplerings 3 years ago
Regardless of what I just said the evidence regarding the uniform is pretty strong - just saying who knows what to believe when both sides are using vague evidence to make a point.
adamant12345 3 years ago
I have to admit I'm pretty undecided on this... Some of the evidence of photoshop work is very dubious... I'm a graphic designer and when you blow up low res images hands will be blurred small print like that on the number plate would not be visible and "green near the cassock" could be anything - Also there is no way of knowing what version of photoshop is being used unless you have the original psd file, plenty of people use photoshop 7, even in industry (and im not sure what point this makes)
adamant12345 3 years ago
Sarkozy trying to distract people form his pathetic leadership...Muslim riots....failing French economy..rising unemployment in the West...trying to drag China down with their sinking ship.
rigoletto68 3 years ago
Damn right.
This photo was taken during the movie" honghegu".SO many Chinese have seen movie some years ago.
Finally I see a video tells the truth.
Redstrikelin 3 years ago
That is right. And they still need to use Photoshop ...
HOLYFFP 3 years ago
The movie where the extras playing monks is called "The Tough,", internationally released in 2002. Director: Peter Pau. Main cast: Michelle Yeoh (Crouching Tiger) and Ben Chaplin (Birthday Girl). Not a remarkable film but worth your rental fee, given the controversy now. Freeze frame at 93 min 40 sec and at 96 min 9 sec and you will see the Chinese guys playing monks. I did this bit of research and feel that you will do yourself a favor to find out the truth by watching it.
cntriones 3 years ago
You may feel I could do myself a favour by watching this, but I feel it uneccesry. I saw the photo in Epoch times and found it odd. However, my question has been answered adequately and I'm aware of the global research article in the subject of Tibet and the CIA's'Great game'. My next question is: Can I please watch World Snooker? :-)
SinoWestR 3 years ago
Therefore, please do not call white black by some people, use your wisdom to judge the truth!
tristan2291984 3 years ago
when i saw this vedio, i am so angry, on the other hand, i commiserate these foreign people, because they were hoodwinked by some so-called "truths". Some of them who were never been china, they even don't know chinese culture, social situation, they don't know when chinese filmmaker need a large scene,they could apply a support from chinese soldier, who could be figurant in the film backgroud sometimes, because, it's a easy way to get a large quantity figurant and cheap.
tristan2291984 3 years ago
What is China doing about its polution problem?
SinoWestR 3 years ago
and wat is london doing abt its pollution problem? man i've stayed in uk for yrs, and in london, less than a day, the insides of your nose turns black! ew!
Galaxnite 3 years ago
and wat is london doing abt its pollution problem? man i've stayed in uk for yrs, and in london, less than a day, the insides of your nose turns black! ew!
Galaxnite 3 years ago
and wat is london doing abt its pollution problem? man i've stayed in uk for yrs, and in london, less than a day, the insides of your nose turns black! ew!
Galaxnite 3 years ago
Yes, I understood you the first time! And point taken. Firstly, cities such as Leeds do not have a serious polution problem, but London certainly does. Secondly, I have recently heard that China has moved some factories away from the cities. But the environmnent is still causing a problem in terms of dust storms. I believe China can get through this. The environment is a world issue and something we can all agree on.
SinoWestR 3 years ago
@SinoWestR A world problem absolutely, and yet nothing could get done at the Copenhagen summit, not even bland non-binding agreements. Beyond sad. How shitty international relations/politics is.
gyniest 1 year ago
how about polution per capita? Canadian is number one
cntriones 3 years ago
證實該照片為2001年西藏武警協助拍攝電影《天脈傳奇》時的劇照。4月初外交部發言人姜瑜更直斥達賴妖言惑眾，為中國澄清，並對外國媒體的歪曲報道作出反擊
magictouch555 3 years ago
LOL, Dont be so CNN!
Classic!
fifi1314 3 years ago
The Apache in America are not the same people, they have different backgrounds, language and even their own symbolic flag ...you can see the difference just by looking at them SO PLEASE AMERICA FREE THE APACHE LAND.
yhw111 3 years ago 2
@yhw111 Wouldn't the first step be to move the Bureau of Indian Affairs out of the Interior Dept.? It's still, to this day, a rather one-sided relationship.
gyniest 1 year ago
The Ainu in Japan are not the same people, they have different backgrounds, language and even their own heritage flag ...you can see the difference just by looking at them SO PLEASE JAPAN FREE THE AINU LAND.
yhw111 3 years ago 2
The Aborigine in Australia are not the same people, they have different backgrounds, language and even their own aborigine flag ...you can see the difference just by looking at them SO PLEASE AUSTRALIA FREE THE ABORIGINE LAND.
yhw111 3 years ago 2
@yhw111 Why not?
gyniest 1 year ago
My impression is that for many Europeans & Americans all Asians have the same face. Nothing wonderful in hearing this from people, who can't distinguish between Filippino & Thais - completely different anthropological types. The same is true in a case of Chinese & Tibetans: they belong to different anthropological types. Though again nothing wonderful: if CNN & BBC tried to represent Nepali police as a Chinese one, I shan't be surprised at anything after that.
multyfuck 3 years ago
please understand that nobody is against Chinese peolpe! That is a common misunderstanding. i just returned from a speech of a Chinese author called xu pei and what she had to say was very interesting. Check it out. I have been reeding as much as I can and so far have not found a single person who is criticising Chinese peolpe, it is directed towards the communist party. In history there were times when half of China was part of Tibet also, so? If Tibet was part of China, why take it by force?
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: China did not take Tibet by force... The gouverment put an end to the theocracy. The majority of the people were slaves of the lama's/monks.. Tibet was ruled by warlords, that happend, because before the gouverment stepped in China was in a weaked by invasions by foreign countries and by a civil war...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
@Puntonghua No force? No soldiers were used? No murders? No rapes? No use of arms? "Warlords" (with hardly a standing army to defend itself)? It was not separate territory? Yes, I'm the one who hasn't done *my* homework. Man, if you want the information, there's reams of it out there. I mean, I never claimed you believe everything in the Chinese media, yet you defensively had to claim as such to my post. He who doth protest too much!
gyniest 1 year ago
If you (the west) spead lies about a country, it is going to hurt the feeling of the people living that country. It does not matter if it is pointed against the gouverment or not.
Puntonghua 3 years ago
This is not just true of the Chinese or any one particular people. You think there are no lies against the West, or anyone else in the world? Or are only your feelings relevant here?
gyniest 1 year ago
@turibob The problem is that some people in the Free Tibet movement do malign Chinese culture as a whole. Even Robert Thurman, who makes statements like the Chinese have "always" been war-like and aggressive. It's unfair, untrue, and helps neither side.
gyniest 1 year ago
furthermore I like Chinese culture and my Chinese friends, but I am Tibetan and i love my own culture as well, and it is dying.
Please try to understand that we are trying to survive and after 50 years under Chinese rule people are still protesting. Why?
And what would you do in my place?
We could live peacefully together and profit from one another! Loving your country and culture does not mean you have to defend you government actions by all means. Look at Hu Jia, he loves China !
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: I respect you and wanting to preserve your culture... But I do not believe the story about Tibet being invaded by China 50 years ago. It is always mentioned that China invaded Tibet 50 years ago, but for example if you look at maps of more than 50 years ago you cannot even find Tibet on the map, only China. In the media they almost not mention about Britain's role in Tibet, or what the so called holy lama did to the people living in Tibet... so I do not buy that
Puntonghua 3 years ago
dear puntonghua:
your explanation regarding international press seems a little too simple for me. they always mentioned that there were Chinese victims, didn´t they? Did Chinese media mention dead Tibetans?
Who has the competence to decide the status of Tibet? I believe people who have studied international law. The international commission of jurists has repeatedly stated that Tibet was an independent country. To me they are more competent than sinologits, tibetologists and historians.
turibob 3 years ago
...and they have stated this in the sixties...and again and again. There was no China-bashing at that time, or do you disagree? anyway, we have our own language, writing, religion, dances, songs, anything that makes a people a people, right? So why can´t we just practise our relgion and language, what is so wrong with that?regardless of tibet´s status, we seek autonomy to keep our culture alive. the dalai lama has been trying this for 22 years now, seeking only autonomy.
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: Allot of people here in the west think that the Chinese people know nothing and are being brainwashed by their goverment. But they don't realise that they are the one who are brainwashed ---> protesting on the street like idiots shouting FREE TIBET when not even knowing the history of Tubet and China themself. But ofcourse if it is on television it has to be true, because here in the FREE WEST the goverment does not lie to it's people for it's own agenda... preety naive dont you think
Puntonghua 3 years ago
puntonghua:nobody wants the systems that existed 60 years ago, take a look at China back then and how it developed. Look what was going on in Russia or Germany at that time. We would have made progress as well, maybe not as fast as other countries,but if you point out the system in Tibet in the 40ies then please compare it to the rest of the world. So give back the argument that all Westerns are brainwashed, then you aren´t any better than them....Nobody believes in media unconditionally!
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: I did not say all the westerners are brainwashed, I said most westerners. But I guess brainwashed is not correct word. Ignorance is a better word. ''Nobody believes in media unconditionally'' tell that to the people that are protesting for things they don't even know anything about.
Puntonghua 3 years ago
Puntonghua: hm, one comment got lost....i was referring to the Status of Tibet, because you accuse peolpe of being ignorant.And i wonder why you think Tibet belongs to China?You say international law and Western vies dons´t matter, then you say, Western countries do not see Tibet as a sovereign country. What is your knowledge of when Tibet became China. We are not the same peolpe, in no way, we have different ethinc backgrounds...you can see the difference just by looking at us...
turibob 3 years ago
I did not say international law did not matter... And it is true that no country recognizes Tibet as a country --> for obvious reasons... I don't know what you mean by we are in no means the same, because I have never claimed all the people in China are from the same ethnic group (if you area what you claim to be, you should know that)...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
I think it is wrong to accuse people of just envying someone if the criticise...It sounds exactely like Americans who whenever you ask them why they think they are not very popular in the rest of the world, they always say, that other nations are only jealous, because they are the most powerful nation.
Why do you think we have so much support from Chinese people? They demonstrate with us. You must know someone who is falun gong or a democrat and what happened to them, don´t you?
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: America is not China... China does not attack countries because it does not agree with their way of doing things, China does not tell other countries what do do or not. A weak China is a good China in the eyes of the west. A strong China is a problem in they eye of the west. And when I talk about the west I talk about US and EU.
Puntonghua 3 years ago
...there were different explanations of Chinese officials regarding as of why Tibet belonged to China. From a treaty, signed by our regent,to some marriage with a chinese princess and so forth. Today they take maps and claim that there was no Tibet. there would be a lot of countries who would not exist today. Under Songtsen Gampo we conquered half of Asia. Other times you conquered us. In fact I believe that Tibetan- Chinese relations backe then were probabely better for both sides.
turibob 3 years ago
@Puntonghua Both the Maoists and Kuomintang committed mass violence in the 20th century in the high thousands. And China most certainly did attack the Tibetan kingdom. You yourself used the argument that the Tibetan lifestyle (i.e. theocracy) necessitated intervention ("ending it" in your words) as China didn't like their ways of doing things in their land. And how about Uigurs "way of doing things?" And military clashes w/ Taiwan? China isn't weak either - the US is in debt to its bond-holders.
gyniest 1 year ago
...and what do you think of them? Do you believe they are less patriotic? Harry Wu?, Victor Chan,Wei Jingsheng?
We will not agree on the Status of Tibet,but it is an explanation why there are few Tibetans who want independence, this is out understanding on the issue. No matter how we disagree though, we are in a dialogue and that is good!
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: Well I guess we have to agree to disagree. :-)
Puntonghua 3 years ago
@Puntonghua Do you even know a single person participating therein? Or are you just assuming and generalizing? And I never even said you were "brainwashed," never used the term, I just happen to think you are very one-sided and won't even consider the possibility that it's wrong.
gyniest 1 year ago
turibob: You wanted a explination, and you got one. Why let someone in that already spreads lies about you.. There is a reason that no country recognizes Tibet as a country but as a province of China, and no international law is gonna change that... Tibet was already a part of China long before the intenational law...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
@Puntonghua No more than China was once part of greater Mongolia. I realize you seem to think all Westerners are brainwashed and gullible, but come on. Tibet was a protectorate with a separate ruler, and the Manchu dynasty had already dissolved decades before 1950. Tibet was not part of a modern Chinese federal state at that point.
gyniest 1 year ago
@Puntonghua Not true, it was on maps. As for Britain, they failed to colonize Tibet after 1904, or enforce the McMahon line w/ China, just as they failed to colonize mainland Chinese (but did take over maritime territory, not to mention India, thus controlling the opium trade amongst other things). Britain didn't have direct or even indirect control over Tibetan resources either. They couldn't even get Afghanistan. In this "great game" Russia clearly had the upper hand.
gyniest 1 year ago
CIA funds the NED, which recruiting college students to do their dirty work.
0311ohrah 3 years ago
so sad, no matter what western media is doing, it is not nearly as bad as chinese media....everyone has to agree with that. how can you criticise something that you do yourself and even to a greater extend????
this is why the rest of the world laughs at you people who have no real knowledge about what is going on in your own country!
sad and embarrassing!
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: It sis quite sad that the western media has to lie to get ignorant fools like you to watch in order to get money... The chinese media may not be honest, but it does not demonises other countries based on mere asumptions... How do you know that Chinese people don't know what is going on their own country... Let me give you a tip ---> don't believe eveything you see on TV I assume you got brains ---> so used them...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
turibob have to take the brain out from his ass before he can use it. Go check Michael Parenti, a scholar has some thing to say on Tibet.
0311ohrah 3 years ago
@0311ohrah He's a biased Marxist who's already been discredited. He's not even an expert on Tibet! He *solely* uses Chinese sources of material, that's it. Old news.
gyniest 1 year ago
punthonghua:
i do not believe everything is see on tv...so we have something in common after all;)
but of course there are a lot of assumptions as of why the Chinese government does not allow international journalists to report. What do you think is the true reason? I have Chinese friends in China who themselves complain about not knowing for sure what is going on there and in Tibet. Why would they lie to me?
turibob 3 years ago
turibob: I think the reason they do not allow international journalists into Tibet is pretty clear. Whenever it comes to Tibet most of the western media wants to twist the truth. The international journalists are far from honest or fair when it comes to China. Even with the little information the media here has, they still manages to twist facts and make up lies...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
The movie where the extras playing monks is called "The Tough,", internationally released in 2002. Director: Peter Pau. Main cast: Michelle Yeoh (Crouching Tiger) and Ben Chaplin (Birthday Girl). Not a remarkable film but worth your rental fee, given the controversy now. Freeze frame at 93 min 40 sec and at 96 min 9 sec and you will see the Chinese guys playing monks. I did this bit of research and feel that you will do yourself a favor to find out the truth by watching it.
nyimaksung 3 years ago 2
The movie is called "The Touch." I apologize for the typo.
nyimaksung 3 years ago
this is a lie!!,This pictures is some PLA help to make TV film,the PLA have change their Uniforms in 2007,and in this picture the
soldiers Uniforms is very old,you say it because you want to Discredit China!
logegz 3 years ago
this is a lie!! this picture is a recent picture taken by the BRITISH GOVERNMENT communications agency.
PHOTO SHOP U MAKE ME LAUGH and show me how serious face should look like when the people could get 26 or more years in jail just a the right move on the wrong time.
niggaplezlol 3 years ago
(1) Dalai Lama is hopeless, American government wont do anything do help the 'Free Tibet" assholes.s. America is neither willing nor capable to change China policy. All what American politicians can so is to bluff.
In 1991 Bill Clinton vowed to trade sanction China once he would be in power. What happen after. Nothing and nothing
edvan88 3 years ago
.(2) So why did he bluff. He bluffed not to impress Chinese people or government but to fool stupid American voters to get their votes.
Same thing for Segolene Royal the French presidential candidate. Nicolas Sarkozy criticicized her being too soft and inexperienced in foreign policy. So what she did 2 months before the presidential election -- she made a trip to Beijing , welcomed by a vice premier (No.5 of the Government of China
edvan88 3 years ago
)(3). After enjoying herself in Beijing and on her return to Paris, she pretended to have bullied her host rgd "human rights" and Tibet issues. Ha Ha -- very big joke -- What she only did was she only fooled the stupd French voters to get their votes.
edvan88 3 years ago
(4)So to all "Free Tibet " assholes in youtube: If you see some European or American flex their muscles and talk shit to China regarding Tibet province, mind you they are taking you for REAL IDIOTS.and we Chinese laugh each time your politicians talk these shits.
edvan88 3 years ago
@edvan88 Oh wow, I wasn't aware of this. I didn't know China has America by the balls. I didn't know how much the U.S. economy relies on Chinese exports. Gee, I really thought these political gestures would change things, that our two major parties really cared, that the far right or far left don't have a stake in defending China, that a verbal reprimand would work wonders, unlike all of America's other attempts to do something about human rights abuses in the last century. I see the light...
gyniest 1 year ago
Bloody hell, Dalai Lama has hijacked the Western media!!!
Now the West do not look at the facts and try to make up stories for Dalai Lama.
March 2008 in Tibet is an organised crime by the separatist. However, China, it's your mistake. You should not have undertaken the Tiananmen Massacre. Whatever Dalai Lama says now will be true to the West.
Gomeying 3 years ago
Look at their hair, it's monks pretend to be soldiers.
LOL, just kidding.
This picture was actually from a film in 2002.
Who the heck would try to "secretly" change clothes on the streets with so many people around?
Vash6the6Stampede 3 years ago
that constant typing noise is really annoying. I couldn't read anything because it was so distracting.
Mischeaux61 3 years ago
We got crazy folks outs here.....we dont blame y'll for who you are.....you guys have been brought with a some idea stuck in your head and it has stuck so bad that taking out would be like killing yourself but that doesnt mean you are right....may be someday your voice gets crashed for interest of the govt then still, we'll be backing you up.
kevincrazy21 3 years ago
Tibetan platuea is a military strategic spot. the Russian, British, U.S. all wanted to dominate this land. if they can do it in manchu time, they loss their chance. check "CIA in Tibet" on U-Tube.
0311ohrah 3 years ago
Puntonghua, good job n the uniform invesitgation. And don't spend too much time on dumb ass kevincrazy21. He might be practicing Tantrism with Tibetan girl friend. It will makes him thinking that way.
0311ohrah 3 years ago
I'm glad that China's side in this issue is coming to light and thank you for your posts. I worry about the chinese nationals who don't have full access to media though. If China is to "free" tibet (Give them more freedoms, not necessarily let them secede), then China needs to free CHINA, not just tibet. Where are the Falun Gong (sp?) now? I heard they were persecuted throughout china. Tibet gets most of the attention but all over China there are groups that are abused. Free China first.
kjfudge 3 years ago
Good job catching the Photoshoppers!!
pickard72 3 years ago
to the chinese people who doesn't know the truth.. the riot is instigated by the chinese govt in order for them to use force against the peaceful protester. They used the same strategy against your own people back in 1989 and if you remember it tinamen square massarcare.... c'mon grow up... you people should analyze on both side of the story and come to the conclusion and not just by what you have seen your state run tv and accompanied by your nationalism.. search for the truth.
pedromendezo 3 years ago
pedromendeso: You come with your bullshit... ''the riot is instigated by the chinese govt in order for them to use force against the peaceful protester'' and then you come with your advice ---> ''search for the truth''. Dont you think it is time to start taking your own advice, and use your brains for once instead of being brainwashed by the media...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
You dummies. If Tibet was part of China since the ancient times, why would the tibetans fight againt Chinese. If Tibet was part of China since the ancient times, wouldn't Tibetans call themselves Chinese? Who are you trying to fool? People in the free world will not buy this idiotic claim. Free Tibet.
yakmanok 3 years ago
yamanok: I guess you are the dumb one here for notdoing your homework...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
Well Yak Manok...has a point...tryin to prove a point is better than saying "you dint do your homework"
kevincrazy21 3 years ago
kevincrazy21: Before you start to prove a point you should know what you are talking about...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
you guys are simply refusing the truth...if you can't accept the truth...there will come a time when it will haunt u too...patriotism is good...but Tibetans, Falun gong Followers, and other mainland chinese who are suffering is human too aren't they?? seems like you totally forgot about tiannamen square massacre...
kevincrazy21 3 years ago
kevincrazy21: Like I already said ---> Before you start to prove a point you should know what you are talking about... I do not refuse anything, but before you want people to take you seriously, you should atleast know the bigger picture of what is actually going on. a puzzle does not exist of only 1 piece... Like Falun gong Followers, what do you actually know about that whole issue apart from the western view on it, which tends to use every little negetive thing against China in a unfair way
Puntonghua 3 years ago
When you see a falung gong protesters in the west, there aint much to talk bout....people can't raise their voice in their own land, so the best way is to raise their ovoice in a free country. Tell me why, Chinese govt is censoring all the protest goin around rite now in chinese new channel and papers...what about that chinese activist who got arrested recently...i know enough bout falung gong and I definately know whole lot about Tibet..so please dont think I dont know anything...
kevincrazy21 3 years ago
Well do think you don't know anything based on your comments... if you want to be taken seriously don't post nonsense... the protest that happened in London was reported on cctv4 and also in the newspaper in China... I saw everything on CCTV4 what I also saw on BBC, so much for your ''Tell me why, Chinese govt is censoring all the protest going around rite now in Chinese new channel and papers''. If you really know so much you would been more responsible with what you write don't you think??
Puntonghua 3 years ago
''people can't raise their voice in their own land''... It is not so simple as that. People can state their opinion as long if they don't cause unrest. It is always easy to point another countries problems. But which country with a population has manage to keep things as stable and organized as China... Hu Jia knew what he was doing, and he also knew what the consequences were...
Puntonghua 3 years ago
you guys are simply refusing the truth...if you can't accept the truth...there will come a time when it will haunt u too...patriotism is good...but Iraqis, David Caresh Followers, and other mainland Americans who are suffering is human too aren't they?? seems like you totally forgot about Waco massacre...
silversurfervenus 3 years ago
check on 700 AD Tibetan Impire. if you say 700 AD is not not ancient time. American Indians should have their lands return to them. Just live with in!! The Huns have been living with Hui, Mongol, Manchu since ancient time.
0311ohrah 3 years ago
Yakmanok, check on 700 AD Tibetan Impire. if you say 700 AD is not not ancient time. American Indians should have their lands return to them. Just live with in!! The Huns have been living with Hui, Mongol, Manchu since ancient time.
0311ohrah 3 years ago
@yakmanok They response is either: 1.) The Tibetan feudals are the ones instigating this, or 2.) It's whipped up by Western capitalist countries. The possibility than an "ordinary" Tibetan, thinking independently, could conclude that they are separate and have their own rights is thus de-legitimized from the outset.
gyniest 1 year ago
China and India are both churning out more engineers than the US and EU combined.
Meaning the wealth will shift to these developing countries in the next ten years.
The only way for the US to compete is to bully weaker nations in wars for profit.
Which is going on right now.
Bush has bankrupt several companies prior to be "elected" as president. And no surprise he has bankrupt the United States as well with his war for profits in Iraq and Afghanistan.
silversurfervenus 3 years ago 2
@silversurfervenus Fair points (except the prospect of actually profiting from a war in Afghanistan is a longshot, even with a Caspian oil pipe deal). But there's been antagonism between India & China, even a brief war in the 60's. Nepal is still a flashing point, as it involved Hindus vs. Maoists (also a problem in Indian politics, concerning communists and rightwing parties). And there are also territory disputes. For the 2 countries become the next superpowers, they'll have to work this out.
gyniest 1 year ago
FukaLama - there are many Tibetans living in China who practice religion and speak their language freely. The only thing that is banned, is pictures of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan flag.
Tibetan children in Chinese schools are treated as individuals and equals under communists doctrine, there is no racism/ethnic discrimination.
Majority of Chinese classrooms are multi ethnic with Han, Hui, Mongolian, Tibetan, Korean, Muslim, etc. students.
Every child is treated equally.
silversurfervenus 3 years ago 3
Tibetan separitists have almost nothing legitimate to go against China. The only option left to them are lies.
1. "Huge oil deposit uncovered in Tibet" by Dalai Lama government in exile
2. "China dumped depleted urinium on Tibet" by ...
3. "Uranium mine found in Tibet" by ...
4. "China killed a million Tibetans" by ...
5. "China killed 140 Tibetans" (in latst riot) by ...
6. "There is a cultural genocide" by ...
7. "China behind the recent violence" by...
Lies are not good weapons.
FukaLama 3 years ago
I was from mainland China. I had nothing to go against Dalai Lama when I was just out of China even though I knew Dalai Lama was trying to separate Tibet from China.
Later, I read his autobiography and other publications and realized he was a total liar (I recommend all Chinese read his autobiography just to see how he lied in his own words)
FukaLama 3 years ago
how you knew chinese history?you knew nothing about china .and media not justice. if you life in china ,i think you can know trun things about tibet
yinjiaqi 3 years ago
yea u mean the true things is tat thre is lot of killing n genocides in tibet by the chinese police.everyone knws the true colour of chinese face.ok all the killings n torturing tibetans were hide by chinese.they even blocked all the news which has shown the bloodshed of tibetans by chinese police.better u ask ur elders if they have sense of telling truth.how the tibetans were treating by the chinesse govt.
soentsa 3 years ago
You should stop putting something you did onto someone else's head.
It's the Europeans who committed genocide all over the world. Wiped out many native people, and took their lands, and set up new white countries in the name of "freedom", then kidnap blacks from Africa and sold them as slaves...the list go on. Even today, there are over 2000 chemical dumping sites in the U.S. Most are near reservations and other minority populated areas.
Vash6the6Stampede 3 years ago