You are all sheep being fleeced. Fleeced by your union, fleeced by GM, fleeced by your government. You trusted and hoped. You were sold down the river, now join the ranks of the "used to be'.
UAW What a bunch of crooks.They stole our retirement and insurance plan where i worked and now they want the goverment to bail them out. All UAW members and Leaders can kiss my ass.
As I watch I tell you folks I have goosebumps. I wish local 136 in St. Louis would have had half the solidarity you're showing here. I'm so proud of you all, solidarity FOREVER!
@phattvids Thanks! I had goosebumps and a huge lump in my throat. I was also so proud of these people. If you are an autoworker, come on over to our site. factoryrat4now I'm not sure if I have your local there but it can be added. ; )
Thank the Gods there are still people with backbones who will stand up to this tyranny! To all UAW rank and file - God Bless You all - keep fighting the good fight and know that the real America is being carried on the backs of all of you! Without your strength, commitment and perseverance, we're doomed to fail in this country! Stay strong and know there are people all over the world who support you and have your backs, so do what you need to do and do it with pride and dignity!
@surkhalam I do appreciate that my friend, I've enjoyed our discussion, in answer to your question, I am privileged enough to have been trained and educated by them, I'm now disabled so I spend a lot of time on the internet and go to meetings when I can. I attended one a few months ago and heard some great speeches, David North and Ullie Rippert from Germany, I met Jerry White during his presidential campaign, which was great. What was discussed at the latter meeting was the firm belief that ...
... the firm belief that the period we are now going into is the period of the Fourth International, and that it will see a resurgence of the class war/a return to mass struggle, and that we have to make sure that the struggle is fruitful for the working class. I'm sure you've read our analysis on the site, if you hit the search engine on the web site and just search UAW I'm sure you'll appreciate the articles that come up, the world socialist website is the Fourth International, and they ...
... and they are simply correct in their analysis, which is of great urgency now, the austerity is going to be permanent, the ruling class is globally organized and is now applying the most drastic assault on the living and working conditions that we have ever seen, and it can only be met by the building of new mass organizations that are completely independent of the traditional representation which includes the unions because they are now a functioning and conscious arm of the state.
@surkhalam That is how the Union SHOULD be, the will of the members because the members in the UAW are the highest authority in the Union. And if members HAD voted to except the contract, which they had already voted NO in May, she was praying it be in the best interest of the membership.
@Droness I think that's what has been fucking the UAW up for a loooooong time now. Is those tops goons silencing methods upon their members. To me it's faaaar to cult like. That's probably why Toyota never adopted them fully.
@surkhalam You might well be reading that out of context, as a student of Trotskyism inside the Fourth International, we had to go to classes to learn how to read Marxist literature, it can look very different when interpreted in a non-Marxist way. I am speaking for the Fourth International now, and when I say that the unions have to be replaced, i.e. 'they deserve to perish" I am saying so for reasons which anyone can see, but am saying that they be replaced because they have degenerated.
@TheEXBASSIST ... They're waiting and they are afraid that the Euro might collapse if any single European country decides to pull out of the Euro, rather than bail out the nations like Ireland and Spain and Portugal, and they are watching Greece which is imposing the austerity now, in the face of mass struggle against it, they are hoping that the Greek model will find a way of proceeding that will be successful, the governments of Europe are shitting themselves, as are the US. It isn't over yet.
@TheEXBASSIST ... it isn't over yet, if a single country in Europe decides to leave the Euro, then the Euro could very easily collapse, and if it did, as the President recently warned Sarkozy of France when he wanted to pull France out, such a financial catastrophy could very likely bring down the entire global financial system with it. This would probably mean World War Three because there would be a massive scramble for global resources, particularly energy etc. That's how serious the situ is!
@surkhalam I'm not saying let's destroy a faithful representative body of the workers, I'm saying LET'S BUILD ONE. By the way, I just saw Arnold the FASCIST on the news talking about the coming Austerity Onslaught, he actually said: The Germans have done it, (delivered the austerity package,) and the people now have confidence again, the British have done it, the people now have confidence again. This is the most pernicious lying, they haven't applied it in the UK yet, they're waiting....
@surkhalam The financialization of society, the deregulation of the financial sector, partnered with the out-sourcing of manufacturing, just happened to have been presided over by the Reagan administration in partnership with the Thatcher government of the UK, to point this out is not an apology for any other political source, I don't wish to offend you in any way when I suggest that your view of the political world is a "romantic" view, it's crucial now that we strive to be objective.
@TheEXBASSIST Please note that I didn't call u an apologist, I merely suggested that you were in danger of looking like one. This crisis is not just another recession, the ruling classes, in response to contractions in the capitalist system itself, are permanently and drastically lowering the standard of living of working people on a global basis. This isn't going to get better. As we discussed earlier, a third WORLD WAR, is likely to be the consequence of this, they will de-poplulate the world
@TheEXBASSIST Capitalism has not been progressive for many decades now, one could even say that it has never globally been able to meet the needs of mankind. Their system is dying, and yet they will not give it up. This is the scenario into which we were born. The unions the world over, have fatally degenerated, they are now a functioning arm of the state, in opposition to the people they were created to represent. They are corporatist, this is their nature. But we can create new representation.
@TheEXBASSIST They are slashing ever gain that our fathers fought and won, they couldn't do this without complete complicity of the unions, this is a fact. Look around, look what they've done, be aware that they haven't even come close to being done, they have barely got started. The President said: "This crisis is the responsibility of everyone! BULLSHIT! IF WE LET THEM PUT THIS ON OUR BACKS THEN WE WILL BE CARRYING IT'S WEIGHT FOR EVER. PERIOD. We have to fight this, and on a global basis.
@TheEXBASSIST The struggle has presented itself as a consequence of historical development. We don't have the luxury of being able to choose this one. We have to accept it. The only fight back that can win begins with a rank and file rebellion in the union predicament, and it goes beyond, far beyond, it doesn't even stop at the nation state boundaries, it goes beyond, all the way to a global revolution. There is only one organization in the world that can lead us now: THE FOURTH INTERNATIONAL.
@TheEXBASSIST - The Fourth International was founded seventy years ago for this very purpose, that was the extent of Trotsky's vision. You have read and responded to my comments, you must see that there is a consistency in them. This is because I was educated by the Fourth International. We never say that our purpose is easy, in fact we have always said the opposite, that we are fighting to achieve nothing less than THE GREATEST TASK IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. The world socialist revolution.
@surkhalam Firstly, even if that has been true in the past, you should be concerned with the lives and welfare of the non-union workers as well, even when the unions were at their most progressive they were still based on the myth of reformism, your romantic notion of the integrity of the unions is misplaced and simply cannot be afforded any more, you are in danger of sounding like an apologist, they offer no way forward, the representation that comes out of their being rejected will be genuine.
@surkhalam The unions have to be replaced, they can't be reformed, we're not talking about a future without "unions" we're talking about a new movement of truly independent representation of workers, it's not enuf just to read the wsws you have to learn the socialist perspective, it's the only future we've got, trade unionism traditionally goes to the banquet table of the capitalists and it begs a few crumbs, that has never been enough, if it had been then we wouldn't be where we are now.
No, the woman doing the prayer was the Local 23 Chaplain. She was on hand at the meeting for documenting the vote because she wanted button number 400! LOL!
The video posted here is of the meeting the Local made the International leave because it was in all kinds of violations doing what it was doing. They were since forced to take a vote, mail-in this time, and AGAIN was overwhelmingly voted down. : )
So much for what the Regional Director Mo Davison said about the Region and International being inundated with requests for this vote and how the "silent majority" was being intimidated by a few loud mouths.
If anyone learns anything here...one thing is to stop listening to the news. They too have an agenda. *mad face* They report what they are TOLD to report with the spin they are TOLD to put on it. When they are given the facts with proof, they will not print it.
Keep in mind, there were those who did not come to the Union Hall to have their votes recorded. Probably most of the yes votes, but we did have people go ahead and mail their votes who voted no too. There was a paragraph included on the ballot that scared them from recording their vote, making them think it would not be counted if they took it to the Union Hall.
313 Votes would have meant the NOs had it. We recorded 412!
Members came to the Union Hall with their ballots in hand. They marked their ballots and recieved a numbered button. They then took their ballots and stood in front of a video camera and stated their names and how they voted. Many members stated who they were and then stated quite firmly, "And I Voted NO!" There were two yes votes. TWO!
Sincerest congratulations on your remarkable and exemplary action against your corporatist union, workers else where will be inspired by what you are doing there, make as much noise about this as you can, on the internet, everywhere, seek solidarity action throughout your industry and beyond it. The whole world is watching your struggle. I am personally very moved by your stand, once again, congratulations, you are doing something truly principled there!! Col. England
@TheEXBASSIST Local 23 WON! Anyone who can, please come and CELEBRATE with us at our Stand on Solidarity Rally at UAW Region 3, Saturday, September 25th, at 3:00 P.M.!!!! Woooooo Hooooooo! 5850 Fortune Circle West, Indianapolis, IN 46241
It was amazing! I was present at the Union Hall of Local 23 and I watched as Local 23 members filed in, marked their ballots, stood in front of a video camera and stated their name and how they voted before dropping their ballot in the box for mailing.
@Droness I do share your excitement, you know that, but it isn't won yet, it's only just beginning, but the beginning happened with this rejection, and it is significant on a historic scale, this is the first step in the founding of a new independent movement of workers representation, I understand that dies were removed from the plant in an act of intimidation as a response to this, they are not going to just go away. It's decisively important now to get the workers committee up and running....
@Droness ... continued 2. The committee should be galvanized into a permanent body. This may require legal input, read wsws.com they are resourceful in this respect. Meet with your other locals, and I would say that this should be done privately and with caution, make sure you know who you're talking to, I'm sure I don't need to say anymore about that. You know where to reach me, I'd value a chat. What you have done here needs to be replicated elsewhere, use the social networking sites.
How typical of UAW dogs to roll out a "prayer session" before hand. The message is simple enough: "submit in this life and you will be rewarded in heaven" while the few gaining the super profits should "practice charity" in order to buy themselves a ticket into heaven.
@reyter2007 Huh? Are your prayers more worthy? And when plants die and wages are lowered, do you know how much a community suffers from the loss of the "charities" and tax payments, to name just a few....
Hmmmmm I think you missed the point. It was my fault.
I was merely commenting on how absurd and typical of the UAW capitalists to have a "prayer session" before they try and force the workers the accept massive pay cuts.
Of course it is average workers who give most to charity but the official religious dogma seems to be that workers should be "meek" while all the capitalists have to do "be charitable" in order to get themselves a "cheap ticket" into heaven.
@reyter2007 Ahhhhhhh...so sorry reyter2007. There have been so many Union slams on here I guess I just assumed. And the International is forcing a vote with mail in ballots now. The election committee has put out a letter saying the vote procedure does not abide by the bylaws so they do not recognize it. Stand in Solidarity vote all day Thursday where votes will be documented before mailed. It seems it will never end!
It is both astonishing and scary how easy a lot of people are manipulated into denouncing and fighting against their own interests and their own well-being.
The MEMBERS of UAW Local 23 have "BACKBONE!" The 3 criminals that came down from Solidarity House in Detriot should be fired by the International UAW, and sent back to there original jobs.
Someone at UAW Local 23 might want to file a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board about this illeagal barganing.
The MEMBERS of UAW Local 1005 (Parma,Ohio) salute you!
@sinner175 Thank you VERY much sinner, as I see you are aware of what Local 23 is doing for you personally! If they fold, Parma, Marion, and Flint will be whipsawed if not closed. We've seen this game over and over now. I did do a call out to your chairperson and president to get behind us on the web site Factoryrat but have YET to hear from them. I hope all Parma members will remember this.
Charges have been filed but NLRB dragging it's feet. *mad face*
Hum, spoiled??? My husband works in 110 degree, filthy, greasy, roach infested, dangerous conditions so that he can earn a living for his family! GM begged Indianapolis to decrease the tax rate for this property for years to help it stay in business. No one seemed to think that was important?? I will tell my husband to take a 50% paycut for the good of this city and nation as soon as the Mayor, city, state, and Federal employee's do the same (for the good of the city and nation of course!)!
Thank you, Local 23, for your strength and courage. Stay solid! Working people have been so screwed over its important we see how to resist, even against the people who are supposed to represent us.
@mtyshawl I think they are trying Mtyshawl. I think they are wondering what part of NO J.D. Norman doesn't understand! Thank you for your supportive post.
hi droness, sorry but local 659 was the sitdowner local. gm truck plant,spo,truck fleet, its cal rapson old local, flint michigan,so it there.good luck and if you think the international is going to help you are wrong! all they want is union dues.....
Ghetto Theorist, you are simply living in a dream if you think the unions have ever done anything other than compromise in the interests of business, shanty towns? the houses we live in were built by workers, every product that we consume was made by workers, we create the wealth and are completely isolated from the wealth, so what was it the unions did for us again? Get a political education, at: World Socialist Website and see what real theoreticians have been preparing for the last 70 years!
THE LAYOUT OF THE TEXT HAS TO BE READ UPWARDS IN PARAGRAPHS BECAUSE OF HOW U-TUBE ORGANIZES THE COMMENTS, START WITH "thorkmalin you are blind, you only see part of the picture" etc. AND CONTINUE UP THE PAGE ONE PARAGRAPH AT A TIME, SORRY, NOT MY FAULT!
... TAKES US INTO WORLD WAR THREE SO THE WORKING CLASS, THAT IS, THE INTERNATIONAL CLASS, CAN KILL ITSELF OFF ON BATTLE FIELDS ALL OVER THE WORLD, SO THAT CAPITALISM MIGHT BE ABLE TO BUY ITSELF AN EXTENSION OF IT'S LIFE, BY PRETTY MUCH ENSLAVING WHAT IS LEFT OF THE WORKING CLASS WHICH WITHOUT THE OBJECTIVE STRENGTH THAT IT ACTUALLY DOES HAVE RIGHT NOW, THE CRISIS IS ESSENTIALLY A CRISIS OF LEADERSHIP, THAT LEADERSHIP EXISTS AND IS PREPARED, AND QUALIFIED, THE FOURTH INTERNATIONAL, SEE: wsws.org
WHAT CURED THE GREAT DEPRESSION WAS AMERICAN MANUFACTURING WHICH WAS THE FINEST IN THE WORLD WHEN DETROIT WAS TURNING OUT FOUR OUT OF EVERY FIVE CARS IN THE WORLD, THAT MANUFACTURING ISN'T THERE NOW, COURTESY OF REAGAN AND THATCHER IN THE UK, THIS RECESSION ISN'T LIKE ANY BEFORE IT, THE AUSTERITY IS PERMANENT, THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER SAID THIS IN PARLIAMENT TWO WEEKS AGO, SO WITHOUT MASS STRUGGLE ON AN INTERNATIONAL BASIS, ON A PROGRAM TO OVERTHROW THE PROFIT SYSTEM, BEFORE IT TAKES US INTO..
@reyter2007 THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE, WHICH HOWEVER, I DON'T ACCEPT, ARE U THEREFORE SUGGESTING THAT WWIII IS THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS DEPRESSION? I'M VERY SORRY TO SAY THAT FOR AMERICAN IMPERIALISM YOU ARE RIGHT, BUT FOR WORKERS THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE, THE OVERTHROW OF IMPERIALISM, BUT THIS CAN ONLY HAPPEN ON AN INTERNATIONALIST REVOLUTIONARY PROGRAM. wsws.org
@reyter2007 World War Two was not the cure of the great depression, it was THE CONSEQUENCE, and when it ended, American manufacturing was the best in the world, the US had to give other countries massive amounts of aid in order to have someone to trade with, it did buy capitalism a reprieve. The point is that that manufacturing base is no longer there, thanks to Reagan outsourcing most of it, and at the same time deregulating the financial sector, to which this crisis can be traced back.
AND WITHOUT THE BUILDING OF A TRULY INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT OF THE WORKING CLASS ON AN INTERNATIONAL BASIS, BECAUSE CAPITAL IS NOW GLOBAL, IF THE BUSINESS FACES AN INDUSTRIAL STRUGGLE AGAINST IT IN ONE COUNTRY THEN THE BUSINESS WILL SIMPLY SHIFT PRODUCTION TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, WHICH IS WHAT THEY'VE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS AND THE UNIONS HAVE NEGOTIATED REDUNDANCY AT THE LOWEST PAY OUT ETC. IT'S WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR, TO BETRAY, THEY ARE BENT, THEY KNOW WHO THEY WORK FOR, AND IT ISN'T THE WORKERS....
EXPOSED IN THEIR TRUE ROLL AS FUNCTIONARIES NOT FOR US BUT AGAINST US, AND IN EVERY COUNTRY AROUND THE WORLD THIS IS THE CASE, REAGAN AND THATCHER OUTSOURCED MANUFACTURING TO THE FAR EAST BELIEVING THAT THEY COULD A) GET GOODS MADE CHEAPER, B) CRUSH THE UNIONS, AND C) DEREGULATE THE FINANCIAL SERVICE INDUSTRY, AND THAT THAT ALONE WOULD MAINTAIN GROWTH OF GDP, THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THE FINANCIAL CRISIS THAT BROUGHT CAPITALISM TO IT'S KNEES, THE UNIONS ARE COMPLICIT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOLD OUT 24/7
thorkmalin, you are blind, you only see part of the picture, THE FACT IS, THAT THE GOVERNMENT WORKS FOR BIG BUSINESS, AND THE UNIONS ARE COMPLETELY CORPORATIST, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TREACHEROUS, THEY ARE APOLOGISTS FOR MANAGEMENT AND ULTIMATELY FOR GOVERNMENT ALSO, THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY FORWARD AND THAT IS THAT THE WORKERS HAVE TO ORGANIZE A RANK AND FILE REBELLION AGAINST THE UNION LEADERSHIP, AND MAKE A COMPLETE BREAK WITH THE OLD "REPRESENTATIVE" ORGANIZATIONS, WHO NOW STAND COMPLETELY ...
good luck with the international union they sold us out last year wages cut in half. uaw local 659 the truck fleet. acci. cal rapson and his crew mike grimes,rick toldo,did to us what they are trying to do to you...stay strong. screw them.it's time for the union to take a pay cut. now they will not meet with us,to tell why !all they want is union dues.
@rickd3171 I'd say! I tried to look up your local online. They don't even have that! I did notice someone from the GM National Negotiating Committee. Bill King. From local 659. We were told he was coming to the Local 23 meeting but never got a chance to speak or introduce himself....so I hope that makes you feel better. ; )
The eleventh hour game, "Pin The Blame On The Donkey" ! For some people schadenfreude is like a strawberry sundae with whipped cream and nuts. For them, the video and the posts on this site are providing quite a dessert.
@blockedwho I have never supported Obama and expected nothing more of him than what we have got- criminal wars and 'socialism' for the financial elite at the expense of working people.
It's you that wouldn't recognise socialism if it smacked you round the chops, but that, I dare say, is still to come. Bye.
@blockedwho, it looks like you've succumbed to brainwashing. Obama is a representative of the ruling financial elite. Whatever disagreements there may be over tactics, everything he does is for them. He prints money and bails out banks at the taxpayers expense to protect the financial elite and their profit system.
The Democrats total control is total control of a decresingly liberal element of the financial elite. As far as working people should be concerned, Democrat & Republican are equal
Thank You guys for being so honoralble and standing up for what is right! Much LOVE! I'm Pray'n for you hard working people who are so deserving of your Pay!
Thank You guys for being so honoralble and standing up for what is right! Much LOVE! I'm Pray'n for you hard working people who are so deserving of your Pay!
@blockedwho Who is you people? Thats right we are people just like you! The union is smbolic for people united to protect themselves from a companies surppression. If it was not for the union we would be living in shanty towns and sending our childeren to work just to stay afloat!
@GhettoTheorist Thank you. It is so helpful when I'm not the only one coming in to debunk these trolls. He's been blocked again but will probably be back. That is how trolls operate.
Thank You guys for being so honoralble and standing up for what is right! Much LOVE! I'm Pray'n for you hard working people who are so deserving of your Pay!
@dlbysr44 What the International has done is reprehensible. Just make sure when you do join a Union that you know and teach others that it is the people who are the Union. The Union is not your boss. YOU are the boss in a Union.
@Droness Will do, and I agree completely. If there is anything good to come from this it's that it reminds others of their responsibility to be vigilant and standup for what's right. This could be the begining of of a stronger Rank And File union similar to UE or IWW. If the UAW can hold on to it's stregths and do this at the same time it could transform workplaces everywhere.
Pattern contracts are a right. I've had to explain this to people time and again as I'm sure many of Local 23 have. They always have some absurd example that still doesn't hold up, Like, "why does a guy get paid the same thing for sweeping floors that another does for repairing machinery" of course this "floor sweeper" has a much broader area of responsibility, this "example" disregards job rotation, seniority, and the basic fact that they aren't to judge "job importance." (bad road .)
Unions have become the police of the working class, forcing pay cuts, speed ups and worse working conditions generally. They call this 'realism' because they can't see any further than the interests of capital. In some cases the union tops have moved from being agents of capital to being capitalists themselves, sucking subscriptions from their dwindling membership and managing pension funds. Nothing will go right until workers free themselves of these parasites.
@1Mehring1 There's always an actual Rank And File union like United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America (UE) or Industrial Workers of the World (IWW.)
@dlbysr44 Trouble is, and as far as I can see, neither has any independent political perspective for working people. What was the EU getting Jesse Jackson involved in the Republic Windows and Doors struggle for? And why make appeals to the banks? Does anyone really think either have anything to offer working people?
@1Mehring1 I see you are knowledgable about other stands workers have taken recently. I'll bet the EU didn't get Jesse Jackson involved as much as it was HIM involving himself with a truly historic movement, where people were showing what could be done when you stand up for yourself. Good publicity for him.
@Droness Surely Jackson, Obama and the numerous anti working class scoundrels who decended upon RWD all wanted to appear associated with a struggle to which they are all, in reality, bitterly opposed.
Check the UE website. Do they dissassociate themselves from these people? No, they have no independent perspective. UE are muddleheads when what workers need is clear understanding of the class issues they face. Militancy is just not enough.
@1Mehring1 You are so right! That is why this video is so pertinent. These people are actually stepping up, standing together, and taking their Union back. So proud of them. : )
The sad thing here is that the plant will probably close, leaving these people with $0 wages. We're competing in a third world economy now, against workers who earn fifty cents a day. Earning $29/hr and cutting to $15.50 may be the only way to keep a plant open.
The workers could afford to live on the lower wage if local government weren't so greedy with property taxes. Ultimately, the whole country is going down, because of rigid demands of muni employees driving taxes higher as wages lower.
@blockedwho You are on the outside, looking in, judging without knowing. Yes I blocked you. I can't waist my time coming to debunk all you write. You know nothing about it. And you are like the energizer bunny. You go on and on and on and on and on.....just got tired of it, and yes, the posts I deleted were posts where you were attacking. I don't allow personal attacks on my web site and will not tollerate it here.
@harrylooker 180 degrees wrong, fella, I'm a leftist, the UAW leadership are a bunch of rightwing sellouts. (And I'm not a UAW member, I'm an SEIU retired hospital worker.)
A lot of y'all don't get the point: Don't EVER negotiate behind the workers' backs and just expect them to accept that you know best. I'd have showed up with a rope and a clear lane to the nearest lamppost for the TRAITORS.
@Droness That's enough of this nonsense, the plant will close or it will be sold and take another name like American Axle did and then close anyway. You can blame government, the union, the right wingers, the CEO's and don't forget George Bush, he is responsible for everything wrong, but the ultimate fault lies with all of you for never wising up.
@brashley46 They did it "behind your back" because you never faced them, you just went along with blind trust and accepted the goodies they brought to the table with a blind eye. Now you are forced to take a look and don't like the way the table is set. Your Union has become nothing more than a leftist organization that seeks power in government and in combination with government, seeks power over your life and they have it now.
Look, just find out where Obama is vacationing "this week" and ask him for more taxpayer money to give to GM to payback the money they got from taxpayers that they used to pay back the taxpayers.
@Droness The only reason you will not be "standing" with your brothers and sisters in the unemployment line is, they do it all by phone or on-line now. I predict the ultimate demise of GM, Chrysler and eventually Ford. America will lose it's auto industry just like England did. Wake up, you jab the rich, where do you think the money comes from to start a company and create jobs? It is the those dirty rotten greedy stockholders that took a risk and got really screwed. You are very immature.
@harrylooker You might look inside that crystal ball and predict the future of the dealers along with it. Please. If the demise comes it because those companies decided they wanted to take the jobs to cheap labor, no environmental laws, and also no human rights or labor laws. And if that is what they are going to do and already have to a large degree they are sticking with their business plan no matter what the workers do. That plan was decided long ago.
@gtonmart My crystal ball says, the American auto companies are history (at least in the USA) , the Dealers will sell Asian, Martian, whatever or go out of business. Most are multi franchise conglomerates, no more mom and pop stores. I worked them both and I preferred the mom and pop style of business. They were really business savvy but also treated employees like family and paid well. The new breed are a bunch of liberal college educated buffoons, the same type that mandated sub-prime loans.
@LoveThyPitBull I try to think things out using logic laced with historic knowledge and my own experience, too bad the Unions didn't do that years ago, everyone would be a lot better off now.
My case for the state of your mind. Visiting a car show at a local GM plant, a (Union) guy working the transmission display commented that we should all vote (2004 election) for Ralph Nader. I looked at my wife in disbelief. Nader single handedly destroyed the Corvair (VW had the same rear swing axle set up but he ignored it) and constantly attacked GM and the auto industry and this guy who's lively-hood depended on GM loved him. How many more of you guys don't know what or who is good for you
@harrylooker Just like out there in society many people stay educated many people don't. I think it is up to the workers to decide what is good for them and I fully support what they did. You have no idea how bad things have gotten in terms of representation. This was about standing up for your integrity as much as about wages. Unions have a set of bylaws they themselves set and collusion with the company has always been illegal.
@gtonmart Hey, I belonged to an amalgamated UAW local for 26 years, the Dealer was closing regardless of what we did, we could have worked for nothing and it would have closed, but, the owner wanted concessions and the Union told us it was to keep the place open when in fact it was to make it cheaper to sell. They wanted all the concessions retroactive. The Union jerk said to me, if the place was so bad, why did you stay so long, answer, for what we are being asked to give up. He was dumbfounded
Blame NAFTA, blame Toyota, blame Republicans, blame everyone else, but if you want to stare the real culprits in the eye, go to Washington and your Union halls. Years of extortion, years of ridiculous government regulations (like CAFE) years of poor planing for the future, irresponsible use of dues to support worthless candidates that did little for rank and file members, but secured a place at the table for Union leaders to enjoy a fat dinner. You guys were duped and the dupe juice ran out.
GM has paid back all of the money borrowed from the taxpayers. The money that some of you say that is still owed is invested in the company in the form of ownership. How successful GM is in the future will determine the share price of GM stock once the IPO occurs. All of the money invested could be recouped through the sale of the taxpayer's shares if the price is right. If not, then just keep buying foreign cars and keep sending your money to support another country's economy.
I wish one of you UAW haters would come show me how easy it is to do my job for just one day. You don't have a clue. Not one of you could keep up or have the skills to accomplish the job. Sure some employees may have an easy job, but the majority do not. Try working at a place where the corporate culture is as poor as it is at GM. I have physically worked harder elsewhere, but the mental drain that is brought on by the stupidity of plant level leadership is disheartening.
The reason all you auto workers are up in arms is because everything has been exposed including your Union. You people should know your Union now only exists for itself not the rank and file. Obama inadvertently exposed everything and now he wants the whole country to go the way of the Unions, a hierarchy and the peons. Sooner or later it will all be over, other peoples money will run out, the bailouts will end and the Union leaders will take what is left of your money and run. It will happen.
@harrylooker What we are trying to get accomplished is taking our Union back. It was never supposed to be this way. Yes, we feel our Union is in collusion with the companies to the detriment of it's workers and all workers!
@harrylooker What part of contract do you people not understand? 60+ years. I'm sure all the American made cars in this nation were made by people who "don't work". I think I should start deleting all the stupid, off the top of someones's head, ignorant remarks. It really does show how uninformed so much of the American public really is. You go ahead and become someone's serf. I choose to stand up for myself and my brothers and sisters.
@Micheleeroo You know...I had a husband who thought just like you. In fact he was so sure all we did was sleep at work that he would not let me sleep at home. Ended up I started halucinating from lack of sleep. Blacking out. Just to hear you say something like that brings rage to my heart. I ended up being a single mother and doing much better without an idiot like that and like you.
Before throwing too many stones at the CEO (I too think they make too much) I would be very curious to see the paystub for the head of the UAW, and the pay stubs of the UAW reps addressing this crowd. Also, when they are telling these workers that they are getting a pay cut, how much of a cut did the Unions bosses take?
Before throwing too many stones at the CEO (I too think they make too much) I would be very curious to see the paystub for the head of the UAW, and the pay stubs of the UAW reps addressing this crowd. Also, when they are telling these workers that they are getting a pay cut, how much of a cut did the Unions bosses take?
@ACRScout57 The union leaders make far too much money for the kind of representation members are getting. Members take a cut, union execs get a raise. They negotiate wages remain the same in the case of sale, meanwhile having secret meetings behind closed doors to reduce wages by 50%. No wonder they are being thrown out of union halls by their own members. Members now have to think for themselves when things like this happen. It becomes about upholding principle and integrity not just wages.
@gtonmart As a retired soldier, I have never been in a Union, nor, based on what I have observed, would I ever want to be in one. I joined the Army right out of High School, I stayed for a 20+ year career. As for union membership, I do get it, that there is power in numbers, but I fail to see the logic in turning my ability to negotiate over to someone that makes more money than I do and has absolutely no real incentive to get me the best possible deal. I prefer to control my own destiny.
@ACRScout57 You can get all of that information from the Dept. of Labor web site. Yes, you are correct. It used to be that the top guy in the UAW was to make no more than the top paid Union worker. SO MUCH HAS CHANGED! That is why we want to take our Union back! They actually recently gave themselves a raise, but didn't call it that because it was already in their budget to do so!
@Droness Unions are OK for those who like them, but based on my situation I prefer to go it alone and based on my situation, the way I go about it is to offer my services based on my training, study and experience, and tell them what I want to get paid, if they accept, great, if not I deprive them of my services. After a military career, I entered the IT industry, but I refuse to work in a Union shop.
@ACRScout57 That option does not exist in the factory environment. The company does not care how educated you are, how much experience you had before you got there, and if you have a union you cannot negotiate for yourselves. Depriving labor would be grounds for firing. If they are the negotiating body, then they are also responsible to the people, like it or not. When they aren't doing the job they are paid to do members are well within their right to throw them out of the union hall.
@gtonmart This was also not just about them not doing their jobs, it was about direct and blantant violations to the local contract, the International constitution that the Intl themselves wrote. They are obligated by nature of their own constitution to uphold certain rights, which they failed to do. Having secret meetings with the company without local union approval is illegal, and collusion with the company resulting is also a crime.
@gtonmart I realize that factory workers are heavily unionsized which is one reason I have avoided that type of work, and will never actively seek a factory job. I was offered several factory jobs right after I left the Army, I turned them all down simply based on their requirement of union membership.
I see everyone thinks its the Unions and or Managment that killed american industry sorry your all wrong try our very own loving goverment with such lovely little things such as NAFTA and making China a Prefered trading partner lovely mabey everyone should all go back too school but alas the service industry is dying India on the phone can i help you. The facts are out there you have too stop believing everthing your told and actually look for the truth.
Lots of misconceptions here, to start autoworkers do not work two hours a day. Most of them have serious health problems after 30 years and suffer carpel tunnel syndrome, cancers, nerve abnormalities, and other chemical causing deseases. I doubt that would be the case on a 2 hour workday. Many autoworkers are also educated with bachelors and masters, and chose to stay in the plant due to the pay level, so autoworkers these days are not uneducated. Stop generalizing and learn the facts please.
144 people at he UAW headquarters make at least $150,000 a year in salary. This is just not right. Unions are simply a terrorist organization and should be outlawed. Employees with no risk should not be allowed to destroy a company. Many members of my family worked for the auto companies for decades and I worked for them as a vacation replacement for two summers. I saw the outrageous behavior of the UAW members every day. Many would work for two hours or less each and every day.
@woody14090 Unions created the National Labor Day we all enjoy, are responsible for the 8 hr work day, legislation outlawing forced overtime, were responsible for the outlaw of child labor, (mother jones), pushed for govt legislation for OSHA and safe work standards across the board in all industries. Unions need to return to social advocates for the people instead of willy worms, but ALL AMERICANS ENJOY their past efforts. It is largely the workers that fought for them. Think about it.
Down with all internationalists/communists. Drive them down to Venezueala where they can starve to death a slow torturous death, or better yet, to HIV infested Africa.
The UAW cannot be reform. They have degenerated fully into a company union as you yourself have stated. The union big wigs have financial incentives to reduce workers wages as they hold a stake in two major car companies. The heads of Local 23 will surely try to channel workers' anger into non-threatening channels. The rank and file members should form their own committees and call on their fellow brethen from GM, Chrysler and Ford (who find their wages and living standards being attack) to help
You are all sheep being fleeced. Fleeced by your union, fleeced by GM, fleeced by your government. You trusted and hoped. You were sold down the river, now join the ranks of the "used to be'.
papawx3 5 months ago
UAW What a bunch of crooks.They stole our retirement and insurance plan where i worked and now they want the goverment to bail them out. All UAW members and Leaders can kiss my ass.
OLDSKOOL60813 6 months ago
As I watch I tell you folks I have goosebumps. I wish local 136 in St. Louis would have had half the solidarity you're showing here. I'm so proud of you all, solidarity FOREVER!
phattvids 11 months ago
@phattvids Thanks! I had goosebumps and a huge lump in my throat. I was also so proud of these people. If you are an autoworker, come on over to our site. factoryrat4now I'm not sure if I have your local there but it can be added. ; )
Droness 11 months ago
Fairfield manufacturing is hiring. But we only make 20 bucks an hour.
fatkaw10 1 year ago
10 UAW members combined don't have the IQ of a head of lettuce. UAW members are human waste.
mildot986 1 year ago
wsws.org/articles/2010/oct2010/lake-o21.
shtml
UAW deal paves way for 100 percent low-wage workforce at Michigan GM plant
JoshuaCromarty 1 year ago
Thank the Gods there are still people with backbones who will stand up to this tyranny! To all UAW rank and file - God Bless You all - keep fighting the good fight and know that the real America is being carried on the backs of all of you! Without your strength, commitment and perseverance, we're doomed to fail in this country! Stay strong and know there are people all over the world who support you and have your backs, so do what you need to do and do it with pride and dignity!
StoneSoupVideos 1 year ago
@surkhalam I do appreciate that my friend, I've enjoyed our discussion, in answer to your question, I am privileged enough to have been trained and educated by them, I'm now disabled so I spend a lot of time on the internet and go to meetings when I can. I attended one a few months ago and heard some great speeches, David North and Ullie Rippert from Germany, I met Jerry White during his presidential campaign, which was great. What was discussed at the latter meeting was the firm belief that ...
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
... the firm belief that the period we are now going into is the period of the Fourth International, and that it will see a resurgence of the class war/a return to mass struggle, and that we have to make sure that the struggle is fruitful for the working class. I'm sure you've read our analysis on the site, if you hit the search engine on the web site and just search UAW I'm sure you'll appreciate the articles that come up, the world socialist website is the Fourth International, and they ...
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
... and they are simply correct in their analysis, which is of great urgency now, the austerity is going to be permanent, the ruling class is globally organized and is now applying the most drastic assault on the living and working conditions that we have ever seen, and it can only be met by the building of new mass organizations that are completely independent of the traditional representation which includes the unions because they are now a functioning and conscious arm of the state.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@surkhalam That is how the Union SHOULD be, the will of the members because the members in the UAW are the highest authority in the Union. And if members HAD voted to except the contract, which they had already voted NO in May, she was praying it be in the best interest of the membership.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness I think that's what has been fucking the UAW up for a loooooong time now. Is those tops goons silencing methods upon their members. To me it's faaaar to cult like. That's probably why Toyota never adopted them fully.
EpiDemic117 1 year ago
@surkhalam You might well be reading that out of context, as a student of Trotskyism inside the Fourth International, we had to go to classes to learn how to read Marxist literature, it can look very different when interpreted in a non-Marxist way. I am speaking for the Fourth International now, and when I say that the unions have to be replaced, i.e. 'they deserve to perish" I am saying so for reasons which anyone can see, but am saying that they be replaced because they have degenerated.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST ... They're waiting and they are afraid that the Euro might collapse if any single European country decides to pull out of the Euro, rather than bail out the nations like Ireland and Spain and Portugal, and they are watching Greece which is imposing the austerity now, in the face of mass struggle against it, they are hoping that the Greek model will find a way of proceeding that will be successful, the governments of Europe are shitting themselves, as are the US. It isn't over yet.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST ... it isn't over yet, if a single country in Europe decides to leave the Euro, then the Euro could very easily collapse, and if it did, as the President recently warned Sarkozy of France when he wanted to pull France out, such a financial catastrophy could very likely bring down the entire global financial system with it. This would probably mean World War Three because there would be a massive scramble for global resources, particularly energy etc. That's how serious the situ is!
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@surkhalam I'm not saying let's destroy a faithful representative body of the workers, I'm saying LET'S BUILD ONE. By the way, I just saw Arnold the FASCIST on the news talking about the coming Austerity Onslaught, he actually said: The Germans have done it, (delivered the austerity package,) and the people now have confidence again, the British have done it, the people now have confidence again. This is the most pernicious lying, they haven't applied it in the UK yet, they're waiting....
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
It was a very powerful demonstration of worker rights against the old rotten leaders we still have all over the world, this will change...
FranzSchobert00 1 year ago
@surkhalam The financialization of society, the deregulation of the financial sector, partnered with the out-sourcing of manufacturing, just happened to have been presided over by the Reagan administration in partnership with the Thatcher government of the UK, to point this out is not an apology for any other political source, I don't wish to offend you in any way when I suggest that your view of the political world is a "romantic" view, it's crucial now that we strive to be objective.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST Please note that I didn't call u an apologist, I merely suggested that you were in danger of looking like one. This crisis is not just another recession, the ruling classes, in response to contractions in the capitalist system itself, are permanently and drastically lowering the standard of living of working people on a global basis. This isn't going to get better. As we discussed earlier, a third WORLD WAR, is likely to be the consequence of this, they will de-poplulate the world
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST Capitalism has not been progressive for many decades now, one could even say that it has never globally been able to meet the needs of mankind. Their system is dying, and yet they will not give it up. This is the scenario into which we were born. The unions the world over, have fatally degenerated, they are now a functioning arm of the state, in opposition to the people they were created to represent. They are corporatist, this is their nature. But we can create new representation.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST They are slashing ever gain that our fathers fought and won, they couldn't do this without complete complicity of the unions, this is a fact. Look around, look what they've done, be aware that they haven't even come close to being done, they have barely got started. The President said: "This crisis is the responsibility of everyone! BULLSHIT! IF WE LET THEM PUT THIS ON OUR BACKS THEN WE WILL BE CARRYING IT'S WEIGHT FOR EVER. PERIOD. We have to fight this, and on a global basis.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST The struggle has presented itself as a consequence of historical development. We don't have the luxury of being able to choose this one. We have to accept it. The only fight back that can win begins with a rank and file rebellion in the union predicament, and it goes beyond, far beyond, it doesn't even stop at the nation state boundaries, it goes beyond, all the way to a global revolution. There is only one organization in the world that can lead us now: THE FOURTH INTERNATIONAL.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST - The Fourth International was founded seventy years ago for this very purpose, that was the extent of Trotsky's vision. You have read and responded to my comments, you must see that there is a consistency in them. This is because I was educated by the Fourth International. We never say that our purpose is easy, in fact we have always said the opposite, that we are fighting to achieve nothing less than THE GREATEST TASK IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. The world socialist revolution.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@surkhalam Firstly, even if that has been true in the past, you should be concerned with the lives and welfare of the non-union workers as well, even when the unions were at their most progressive they were still based on the myth of reformism, your romantic notion of the integrity of the unions is misplaced and simply cannot be afforded any more, you are in danger of sounding like an apologist, they offer no way forward, the representation that comes out of their being rejected will be genuine.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@surkhalam The unions have to be replaced, they can't be reformed, we're not talking about a future without "unions" we're talking about a new movement of truly independent representation of workers, it's not enuf just to read the wsws you have to learn the socialist perspective, it's the only future we've got, trade unionism traditionally goes to the banquet table of the capitalists and it begs a few crumbs, that has never been enough, if it had been then we wouldn't be where we are now.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
No, the woman doing the prayer was the Local 23 Chaplain. She was on hand at the meeting for documenting the vote because she wanted button number 400! LOL!
The video posted here is of the meeting the Local made the International leave because it was in all kinds of violations doing what it was doing. They were since forced to take a vote, mail-in this time, and AGAIN was overwhelmingly voted down. : )
Droness 1 year ago
So much for what the Regional Director Mo Davison said about the Region and International being inundated with requests for this vote and how the "silent majority" was being intimidated by a few loud mouths.
If anyone learns anything here...one thing is to stop listening to the news. They too have an agenda. *mad face* They report what they are TOLD to report with the spin they are TOLD to put on it. When they are given the facts with proof, they will not print it.
Droness 1 year ago
Keep in mind, there were those who did not come to the Union Hall to have their votes recorded. Probably most of the yes votes, but we did have people go ahead and mail their votes who voted no too. There was a paragraph included on the ballot that scared them from recording their vote, making them think it would not be counted if they took it to the Union Hall.
313 Votes would have meant the NOs had it. We recorded 412!
Droness 1 year ago
Members came to the Union Hall with their ballots in hand. They marked their ballots and recieved a numbered button. They then took their ballots and stood in front of a video camera and stated their names and how they voted. Many members stated who they were and then stated quite firmly, "And I Voted NO!" There were two yes votes. TWO!
Droness 1 year ago
Sincerest congratulations on your remarkable and exemplary action against your corporatist union, workers else where will be inspired by what you are doing there, make as much noise about this as you can, on the internet, everywhere, seek solidarity action throughout your industry and beyond it. The whole world is watching your struggle. I am personally very moved by your stand, once again, congratulations, you are doing something truly principled there!! Col. England
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST Local 23 WON! Anyone who can, please come and CELEBRATE with us at our Stand on Solidarity Rally at UAW Region 3, Saturday, September 25th, at 3:00 P.M.!!!! Woooooo Hooooooo! 5850 Fortune Circle West, Indianapolis, IN 46241
It was amazing! I was present at the Union Hall of Local 23 and I watched as Local 23 members filed in, marked their ballots, stood in front of a video camera and stated their name and how they voted before dropping their ballot in the box for mailing.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness I do share your excitement, you know that, but it isn't won yet, it's only just beginning, but the beginning happened with this rejection, and it is significant on a historic scale, this is the first step in the founding of a new independent movement of workers representation, I understand that dies were removed from the plant in an act of intimidation as a response to this, they are not going to just go away. It's decisively important now to get the workers committee up and running....
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@Droness ... continued 2. The committee should be galvanized into a permanent body. This may require legal input, read wsws.com they are resourceful in this respect. Meet with your other locals, and I would say that this should be done privately and with caution, make sure you know who you're talking to, I'm sure I don't need to say anymore about that. You know where to reach me, I'd value a chat. What you have done here needs to be replicated elsewhere, use the social networking sites.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
UAW capitalists ??? what there international is like a communist unification of suck the balls.
NOW THATS BALLS WOW GREAT VID! GOOD LUCK GUYS!
projectjwoo 1 year ago
How typical of UAW dogs to roll out a "prayer session" before hand. The message is simple enough: "submit in this life and you will be rewarded in heaven" while the few gaining the super profits should "practice charity" in order to buy themselves a ticket into heaven.
reyter2007 1 year ago
@reyter2007 Huh? Are your prayers more worthy? And when plants die and wages are lowered, do you know how much a community suffers from the loss of the "charities" and tax payments, to name just a few....
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness
Hmmmmm I think you missed the point. It was my fault.
I was merely commenting on how absurd and typical of the UAW capitalists to have a "prayer session" before they try and force the workers the accept massive pay cuts.
Of course it is average workers who give most to charity but the official religious dogma seems to be that workers should be "meek" while all the capitalists have to do "be charitable" in order to get themselves a "cheap ticket" into heaven.
reyter2007 1 year ago
@reyter2007 Ahhhhhhh...so sorry reyter2007. There have been so many Union slams on here I guess I just assumed. And the International is forcing a vote with mail in ballots now. The election committee has put out a letter saying the vote procedure does not abide by the bylaws so they do not recognize it. Stand in Solidarity vote all day Thursday where votes will be documented before mailed. It seems it will never end!
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness
"There have been so many Union slams on here"
It is both astonishing and scary how easy a lot of people are manipulated into denouncing and fighting against their own interests and their own well-being.
reyter2007 1 year ago
The MEMBERS of UAW Local 23 have "BACKBONE!" The 3 criminals that came down from Solidarity House in Detriot should be fired by the International UAW, and sent back to there original jobs.
Someone at UAW Local 23 might want to file a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board about this illeagal barganing.
The MEMBERS of UAW Local 1005 (Parma,Ohio) salute you!
sinner175 1 year ago
@sinner175 Thank you VERY much sinner, as I see you are aware of what Local 23 is doing for you personally! If they fold, Parma, Marion, and Flint will be whipsawed if not closed. We've seen this game over and over now. I did do a call out to your chairperson and president to get behind us on the web site Factoryrat but have YET to hear from them. I hope all Parma members will remember this.
Charges have been filed but NLRB dragging it's feet. *mad face*
Droness 1 year ago
Hum, spoiled??? My husband works in 110 degree, filthy, greasy, roach infested, dangerous conditions so that he can earn a living for his family! GM begged Indianapolis to decrease the tax rate for this property for years to help it stay in business. No one seemed to think that was important?? I will tell my husband to take a 50% paycut for the good of this city and nation as soon as the Mayor, city, state, and Federal employee's do the same (for the good of the city and nation of course!)!
digitjrt 1 year ago
PS. Spoiled people, it wasn't an illegal meeting.
AlexandraKing101 1 year ago
@AlexandraKing101 Do you know Local 23's By-Laws per chance? Because if you did, you would KNOW that yes, it was an illegally called meeting.
Droness 1 year ago
Thank you, Local 23, for your strength and courage. Stay solid! Working people have been so screwed over its important we see how to resist, even against the people who are supposed to represent us.
Thanks to Droness for posting this video.
kddoesit 1 year ago
@kddoesit You are welcome, and thank you kddoesit. : )
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness I love it when ya'll are sayin' "Get out! This isn't your hall! Your members aren't stupid!" : D
kddoesit 1 year ago
The International union is selling you workers out and so is the Government. Trust your instincts and stand together as workers
mtyshawl 1 year ago
@mtyshawl I think they are trying Mtyshawl. I think they are wondering what part of NO J.D. Norman doesn't understand! Thank you for your supportive post.
Droness 1 year ago
The International union is selling you workers out and so is the Government. Trust your instincts and stand together as workers.
mtyshawl 1 year ago
thank you to the brave members of Local 23 who have stood against the pressure to sell out and cut wages.
jimdollinger 1 year ago
@jimdollinger Thank You for your support jim. ; )
Droness 1 year ago
hi droness, sorry but local 659 was the sitdowner local. gm truck plant,spo,truck fleet, its cal rapson old local, flint michigan,so it there.good luck and if you think the international is going to help you are wrong! all they want is union dues.....
rickd3171 1 year ago
@rickd3171 No, we know the International is not going to help. It is the International, the Region, and the state we are standing up to.
Droness 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
Ghetto Theorist, you are simply living in a dream if you think the unions have ever done anything other than compromise in the interests of business, shanty towns? the houses we live in were built by workers, every product that we consume was made by workers, we create the wealth and are completely isolated from the wealth, so what was it the unions did for us again? Get a political education, at: World Socialist Website and see what real theoreticians have been preparing for the last 70 years!
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
THE LAYOUT OF THE TEXT HAS TO BE READ UPWARDS IN PARAGRAPHS BECAUSE OF HOW U-TUBE ORGANIZES THE COMMENTS, START WITH "thorkmalin you are blind, you only see part of the picture" etc. AND CONTINUE UP THE PAGE ONE PARAGRAPH AT A TIME, SORRY, NOT MY FAULT!
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
... TAKES US INTO WORLD WAR THREE SO THE WORKING CLASS, THAT IS, THE INTERNATIONAL CLASS, CAN KILL ITSELF OFF ON BATTLE FIELDS ALL OVER THE WORLD, SO THAT CAPITALISM MIGHT BE ABLE TO BUY ITSELF AN EXTENSION OF IT'S LIFE, BY PRETTY MUCH ENSLAVING WHAT IS LEFT OF THE WORKING CLASS WHICH WITHOUT THE OBJECTIVE STRENGTH THAT IT ACTUALLY DOES HAVE RIGHT NOW, THE CRISIS IS ESSENTIALLY A CRISIS OF LEADERSHIP, THAT LEADERSHIP EXISTS AND IS PREPARED, AND QUALIFIED, THE FOURTH INTERNATIONAL, SEE: wsws.org
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
WHAT CURED THE GREAT DEPRESSION WAS AMERICAN MANUFACTURING WHICH WAS THE FINEST IN THE WORLD WHEN DETROIT WAS TURNING OUT FOUR OUT OF EVERY FIVE CARS IN THE WORLD, THAT MANUFACTURING ISN'T THERE NOW, COURTESY OF REAGAN AND THATCHER IN THE UK, THIS RECESSION ISN'T LIKE ANY BEFORE IT, THE AUSTERITY IS PERMANENT, THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER SAID THIS IN PARLIAMENT TWO WEEKS AGO, SO WITHOUT MASS STRUGGLE ON AN INTERNATIONAL BASIS, ON A PROGRAM TO OVERTHROW THE PROFIT SYSTEM, BEFORE IT TAKES US INTO..
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@TheEXBASSIST
That is flagrantly false. The only thing that cured the Great Depression was WW2.
reyter2007 1 year ago
@reyter2007 THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE, WHICH HOWEVER, I DON'T ACCEPT, ARE U THEREFORE SUGGESTING THAT WWIII IS THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS DEPRESSION? I'M VERY SORRY TO SAY THAT FOR AMERICAN IMPERIALISM YOU ARE RIGHT, BUT FOR WORKERS THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE, THE OVERTHROW OF IMPERIALISM, BUT THIS CAN ONLY HAPPEN ON AN INTERNATIONALIST REVOLUTIONARY PROGRAM. wsws.org
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
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TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
@reyter2007 World War Two was not the cure of the great depression, it was THE CONSEQUENCE, and when it ended, American manufacturing was the best in the world, the US had to give other countries massive amounts of aid in order to have someone to trade with, it did buy capitalism a reprieve. The point is that that manufacturing base is no longer there, thanks to Reagan outsourcing most of it, and at the same time deregulating the financial sector, to which this crisis can be traced back.
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
AND WITHOUT THE BUILDING OF A TRULY INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT OF THE WORKING CLASS ON AN INTERNATIONAL BASIS, BECAUSE CAPITAL IS NOW GLOBAL, IF THE BUSINESS FACES AN INDUSTRIAL STRUGGLE AGAINST IT IN ONE COUNTRY THEN THE BUSINESS WILL SIMPLY SHIFT PRODUCTION TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, WHICH IS WHAT THEY'VE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS AND THE UNIONS HAVE NEGOTIATED REDUNDANCY AT THE LOWEST PAY OUT ETC. IT'S WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR, TO BETRAY, THEY ARE BENT, THEY KNOW WHO THEY WORK FOR, AND IT ISN'T THE WORKERS....
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
EXPOSED IN THEIR TRUE ROLL AS FUNCTIONARIES NOT FOR US BUT AGAINST US, AND IN EVERY COUNTRY AROUND THE WORLD THIS IS THE CASE, REAGAN AND THATCHER OUTSOURCED MANUFACTURING TO THE FAR EAST BELIEVING THAT THEY COULD A) GET GOODS MADE CHEAPER, B) CRUSH THE UNIONS, AND C) DEREGULATE THE FINANCIAL SERVICE INDUSTRY, AND THAT THAT ALONE WOULD MAINTAIN GROWTH OF GDP, THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THE FINANCIAL CRISIS THAT BROUGHT CAPITALISM TO IT'S KNEES, THE UNIONS ARE COMPLICIT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOLD OUT 24/7
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
thorkmalin, you are blind, you only see part of the picture, THE FACT IS, THAT THE GOVERNMENT WORKS FOR BIG BUSINESS, AND THE UNIONS ARE COMPLETELY CORPORATIST, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TREACHEROUS, THEY ARE APOLOGISTS FOR MANAGEMENT AND ULTIMATELY FOR GOVERNMENT ALSO, THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY FORWARD AND THAT IS THAT THE WORKERS HAVE TO ORGANIZE A RANK AND FILE REBELLION AGAINST THE UNION LEADERSHIP, AND MAKE A COMPLETE BREAK WITH THE OLD "REPRESENTATIVE" ORGANIZATIONS, WHO NOW STAND COMPLETELY ...
TheEXBASSIST 1 year ago
good luck with the international union they sold us out last year wages cut in half. uaw local 659 the truck fleet. acci. cal rapson and his crew mike grimes,rick toldo,did to us what they are trying to do to you...stay strong. screw them.it's time for the union to take a pay cut. now they will not meet with us,to tell why !all they want is union dues.
rickd3171 1 year ago
@rickd3171 I'd say! I tried to look up your local online. They don't even have that! I did notice someone from the GM National Negotiating Committee. Bill King. From local 659. We were told he was coming to the Local 23 meeting but never got a chance to speak or introduce himself....so I hope that makes you feel better. ; )
Droness 1 year ago
good luck with the international union they sold us out last year wages cut in half. uaw local 659 acci mike grimes is know good.
rickd3171 1 year ago
The eleventh hour game, "Pin The Blame On The Donkey" ! For some people schadenfreude is like a strawberry sundae with whipped cream and nuts. For them, the video and the posts on this site are providing quite a dessert.
czvet534 1 year ago
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czvet534 1 year ago
blockedwho, you are nothing but a troll. Make a new identity now. I will be back.
Droness 1 year ago
@blockedwho I have never supported Obama and expected nothing more of him than what we have got- criminal wars and 'socialism' for the financial elite at the expense of working people.
It's you that wouldn't recognise socialism if it smacked you round the chops, but that, I dare say, is still to come. Bye.
1Mehring1 1 year ago
@blockedwho, it looks like you've succumbed to brainwashing. Obama is a representative of the ruling financial elite. Whatever disagreements there may be over tactics, everything he does is for them. He prints money and bails out banks at the taxpayers expense to protect the financial elite and their profit system.
The Democrats total control is total control of a decresingly liberal element of the financial elite. As far as working people should be concerned, Democrat & Republican are equal
1Mehring1 1 year ago
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Thank You guys for being so honoralble and standing up for what is right! Much LOVE! I'm Pray'n for you hard working people who are so deserving of your Pay!
GhettoTheorist 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thank You guys for being so honoralble and standing up for what is right! Much LOVE! I'm Pray'n for you hard working people who are so deserving of your Pay!
GhettoTheorist 1 year ago
@blockedwho Who is you people? Thats right we are people just like you! The union is smbolic for people united to protect themselves from a companies surppression. If it was not for the union we would be living in shanty towns and sending our childeren to work just to stay afloat!
GhettoTheorist 1 year ago
@GhettoTheorist Thank you. It is so helpful when I'm not the only one coming in to debunk these trolls. He's been blocked again but will probably be back. That is how trolls operate.
Droness 1 year ago
Thank You guys for being so honoralble and standing up for what is right! Much LOVE! I'm Pray'n for you hard working people who are so deserving of your Pay!
GhettoTheorist 1 year ago
@GhettoTheorist Thank you!
Droness 1 year ago
Keep fighting & Good Luck!!!-- Insolidarity from not union YET....
dlbysr44 1 year ago
@dlbysr44 What the International has done is reprehensible. Just make sure when you do join a Union that you know and teach others that it is the people who are the Union. The Union is not your boss. YOU are the boss in a Union.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness Will do, and I agree completely. If there is anything good to come from this it's that it reminds others of their responsibility to be vigilant and standup for what's right. This could be the begining of of a stronger Rank And File union similar to UE or IWW. If the UAW can hold on to it's stregths and do this at the same time it could transform workplaces everywhere.
dlbysr44 1 year ago
Pattern contracts are a right. I've had to explain this to people time and again as I'm sure many of Local 23 have. They always have some absurd example that still doesn't hold up, Like, "why does a guy get paid the same thing for sweeping floors that another does for repairing machinery" of course this "floor sweeper" has a much broader area of responsibility, this "example" disregards job rotation, seniority, and the basic fact that they aren't to judge "job importance." (bad road .)
dlbysr44 1 year ago
Unions have become the police of the working class, forcing pay cuts, speed ups and worse working conditions generally. They call this 'realism' because they can't see any further than the interests of capital. In some cases the union tops have moved from being agents of capital to being capitalists themselves, sucking subscriptions from their dwindling membership and managing pension funds. Nothing will go right until workers free themselves of these parasites.
1Mehring1 1 year ago
@1Mehring1 There's always an actual Rank And File union like United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America (UE) or Industrial Workers of the World (IWW.)
dlbysr44 1 year ago
@dlbysr44 Trouble is, and as far as I can see, neither has any independent political perspective for working people. What was the EU getting Jesse Jackson involved in the Republic Windows and Doors struggle for? And why make appeals to the banks? Does anyone really think either have anything to offer working people?
1Mehring1 1 year ago
@1Mehring1 I see you are knowledgable about other stands workers have taken recently. I'll bet the EU didn't get Jesse Jackson involved as much as it was HIM involving himself with a truly historic movement, where people were showing what could be done when you stand up for yourself. Good publicity for him.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness Surely Jackson, Obama and the numerous anti working class scoundrels who decended upon RWD all wanted to appear associated with a struggle to which they are all, in reality, bitterly opposed.
Check the UE website. Do they dissassociate themselves from these people? No, they have no independent perspective. UE are muddleheads when what workers need is clear understanding of the class issues they face. Militancy is just not enough.
1Mehring1 1 year ago
@1Mehring1 You are so right! That is why this video is so pertinent. These people are actually stepping up, standing together, and taking their Union back. So proud of them. : )
Droness 1 year ago
The sad thing here is that the plant will probably close, leaving these people with $0 wages. We're competing in a third world economy now, against workers who earn fifty cents a day. Earning $29/hr and cutting to $15.50 may be the only way to keep a plant open.
The workers could afford to live on the lower wage if local government weren't so greedy with property taxes. Ultimately, the whole country is going down, because of rigid demands of muni employees driving taxes higher as wages lower.
basspig 1 year ago
@blockedwho You are on the outside, looking in, judging without knowing. Yes I blocked you. I can't waist my time coming to debunk all you write. You know nothing about it. And you are like the energizer bunny. You go on and on and on and on and on.....just got tired of it, and yes, the posts I deleted were posts where you were attacking. I don't allow personal attacks on my web site and will not tollerate it here.
Droness 1 year ago
@harrylooker 180 degrees wrong, fella, I'm a leftist, the UAW leadership are a bunch of rightwing sellouts. (And I'm not a UAW member, I'm an SEIU retired hospital worker.)
brashley46 1 year ago 2
@brashley46 That's funny, a hospital worker who belongs to a Union that beats up people, sort of self perpetuating. Thanks for the laugh.
harrylooker 1 year ago
A lot of y'all don't get the point: Don't EVER negotiate behind the workers' backs and just expect them to accept that you know best. I'd have showed up with a rope and a clear lane to the nearest lamppost for the TRAITORS.
brashley46 1 year ago
@brashley46 There was an excellent letter to the editor posted in the Indianapolis Star. I will have to use several posts to get it all in here...
"International UAW butts in"
The media and the public are misinformed about the situation at the GM plant and
Local UAW 23.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness What's not being reported is that our national contract agreement, in Paragraph 91,
says that if anyone buys an existing plant from GM, the buyer is to assume the local
contract for its duration. Our bylaws say that the local unions are the only ones with a
right to waive Paragraph 91 and change a local contract, and that UAW International
officials cannot step in, unless the local requests it.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness This local did not request any intervention by UAW International. We voted no to the
waiver to change this contract and that should have been the end of the story, but
UAW International overstepped its authority and did an end run around us. This is
why the meeting Sunday was so heated and anti-
International.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness I would think that the International would want to stay out of it, because getting
involved constitutes a conflict of interest now that the International owns 17 percent
of GM.
How can they tell us what's best for us if they have an interest in the company's
bottom line? Does anybody else not see this as a conflict of interest?
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness I also know that there have been people vocalizing their disdain for unions, but these
people are ignorant of just what the unions have done for labor over the years. Most
of the health and safety laws
were brought about by union lobbying. Many higher wages are a direct or an indirect
result of union fights for higher wages.
A lot of nonunion workers are getting some benefits because of unions getting good
benefits.
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness New UAW President Bob King said the UAW had to go in a different direction. I
didn't realize that direction would be to turn the union's bargaining gains back 60
years. After all, wasn't the UAW
founded upon better working conditions, higher pay and better benefits?
Droness 1 year ago 2
@Droness Looks like the International wants us to just roll over and play dead. We will not.
They say this is a good deal for us, but I have yet to see where its representatives
will give up half their pay and benefits. In fact, at this year's national convention, they
voted themselves a raise. We haven't had a raise in about 10 years.
Droness 1 year ago 2
@Droness But our fight is not really about the money; it's about upholding the national and local
labor contracts, as they were intended to be upheld.
People say we make too much money but never raise an eyebrow at the pay
disparity between the top management and the hourly worker. It's about 300 times
what we make on the hour. Years
ago this margin was only 30 times the hourly rate. So don't tell us who's making too
much; talk to them.
Droness 1 year ago 2
@Droness J.D. Norman, who wants to buy the plant, said he has to make a profit at this location
this year. As I see it, he wants to take half of our wages out of our pocket and put
them in his pocket and call it a
profitability margin. I think this is unethical. If he can't afford one year of our pay and
benefits, then he has no business buying the stamping plant at all.
Droness 1 year ago 3
@Droness I was always warned to be wary of union busters, but I had no idea that it would be
the national leadership that would instigate it.
Droness 1 year ago
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@Droness That's enough of this nonsense, the plant will close or it will be sold and take another name like American Axle did and then close anyway. You can blame government, the union, the right wingers, the CEO's and don't forget George Bush, he is responsible for everything wrong, but the ultimate fault lies with all of you for never wising up.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@Droness Who are you kidding? "Upholding" contracts "is" about the "money".
harrylooker 1 year ago
@brashley46 They did it "behind your back" because you never faced them, you just went along with blind trust and accepted the goodies they brought to the table with a blind eye. Now you are forced to take a look and don't like the way the table is set. Your Union has become nothing more than a leftist organization that seeks power in government and in combination with government, seeks power over your life and they have it now.
harrylooker 1 year ago
So, where does that leave you ?
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker Where we were since the 2007 negotiations.
Droness 1 year ago
That was Sunday, Tuesday GM announced they would close the plant by the end of next year (2011).
HugeJasFilms 1 year ago
@HugeJasFilms So be it.
Droness 1 year ago
Look, just find out where Obama is vacationing "this week" and ask him for more taxpayer money to give to GM to payback the money they got from taxpayers that they used to pay back the taxpayers.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker Martha's Vineyard this week
LoveThyPitBull 1 year ago
@Droness The only reason you will not be "standing" with your brothers and sisters in the unemployment line is, they do it all by phone or on-line now. I predict the ultimate demise of GM, Chrysler and eventually Ford. America will lose it's auto industry just like England did. Wake up, you jab the rich, where do you think the money comes from to start a company and create jobs? It is the those dirty rotten greedy stockholders that took a risk and got really screwed. You are very immature.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker You might look inside that crystal ball and predict the future of the dealers along with it. Please. If the demise comes it because those companies decided they wanted to take the jobs to cheap labor, no environmental laws, and also no human rights or labor laws. And if that is what they are going to do and already have to a large degree they are sticking with their business plan no matter what the workers do. That plan was decided long ago.
gtonmart 1 year ago
@gtonmart My crystal ball says, the American auto companies are history (at least in the USA) , the Dealers will sell Asian, Martian, whatever or go out of business. Most are multi franchise conglomerates, no more mom and pop stores. I worked them both and I preferred the mom and pop style of business. They were really business savvy but also treated employees like family and paid well. The new breed are a bunch of liberal college educated buffoons, the same type that mandated sub-prime loans.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker The problem is you are bringing common sense to the table. That is not fair.
LoveThyPitBull 1 year ago
@LoveThyPitBull I try to think things out using logic laced with historic knowledge and my own experience, too bad the Unions didn't do that years ago, everyone would be a lot better off now.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@ Droness My stupid ignorant off the top of my head remarks come from being alive all of those 60+ years, it is called EXPERIENCE.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker I can see that age does not necessarily denote knowledge. ; )
Droness 1 year ago
I have no quarrel with the Workers, just their poor irresponsible representation.
harrylooker 1 year ago
My case for the state of your mind. Visiting a car show at a local GM plant, a (Union) guy working the transmission display commented that we should all vote (2004 election) for Ralph Nader. I looked at my wife in disbelief. Nader single handedly destroyed the Corvair (VW had the same rear swing axle set up but he ignored it) and constantly attacked GM and the auto industry and this guy who's lively-hood depended on GM loved him. How many more of you guys don't know what or who is good for you
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker Just like out there in society many people stay educated many people don't. I think it is up to the workers to decide what is good for them and I fully support what they did. You have no idea how bad things have gotten in terms of representation. This was about standing up for your integrity as much as about wages. Unions have a set of bylaws they themselves set and collusion with the company has always been illegal.
gtonmart 1 year ago
@gtonmart Hey, I belonged to an amalgamated UAW local for 26 years, the Dealer was closing regardless of what we did, we could have worked for nothing and it would have closed, but, the owner wanted concessions and the Union told us it was to keep the place open when in fact it was to make it cheaper to sell. They wanted all the concessions retroactive. The Union jerk said to me, if the place was so bad, why did you stay so long, answer, for what we are being asked to give up. He was dumbfounded
harrylooker 1 year ago
@gtonmart That doesn't stop them from colluding with Obama Motors
harrylooker 1 year ago
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I just took out a loan from my Bank to pay back my Bank, now I don't owe my Bank anything. I'm debt free.
harrylooker 1 year ago
Blame NAFTA, blame Toyota, blame Republicans, blame everyone else, but if you want to stare the real culprits in the eye, go to Washington and your Union halls. Years of extortion, years of ridiculous government regulations (like CAFE) years of poor planing for the future, irresponsible use of dues to support worthless candidates that did little for rank and file members, but secured a place at the table for Union leaders to enjoy a fat dinner. You guys were duped and the dupe juice ran out.
harrylooker 1 year ago
GM has paid back all of the money borrowed from the taxpayers. The money that some of you say that is still owed is invested in the company in the form of ownership. How successful GM is in the future will determine the share price of GM stock once the IPO occurs. All of the money invested could be recouped through the sale of the taxpayer's shares if the price is right. If not, then just keep buying foreign cars and keep sending your money to support another country's economy.
jmr515 1 year ago
@jmr515 I just took out a loan from my Bank to pay back my Bank, now I don't owe my Bank anything. I'm debt free.
harrylooker 1 year ago
I wish one of you UAW haters would come show me how easy it is to do my job for just one day. You don't have a clue. Not one of you could keep up or have the skills to accomplish the job. Sure some employees may have an easy job, but the majority do not. Try working at a place where the corporate culture is as poor as it is at GM. I have physically worked harder elsewhere, but the mental drain that is brought on by the stupidity of plant level leadership is disheartening.
jmr515 1 year ago
The reason all you auto workers are up in arms is because everything has been exposed including your Union. You people should know your Union now only exists for itself not the rank and file. Obama inadvertently exposed everything and now he wants the whole country to go the way of the Unions, a hierarchy and the peons. Sooner or later it will all be over, other peoples money will run out, the bailouts will end and the Union leaders will take what is left of your money and run. It will happen.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker What we are trying to get accomplished is taking our Union back. It was never supposed to be this way. Yes, we feel our Union is in collusion with the companies to the detriment of it's workers and all workers!
Droness 1 year ago
You can't pay people to do nothing all day and expect to stay in business forever.
Micheleeroo 1 year ago
@Micheleeroo They have been doing it for 60 plus years, that is why they are screwed now.
harrylooker 1 year ago
@harrylooker What part of contract do you people not understand? 60+ years. I'm sure all the American made cars in this nation were made by people who "don't work". I think I should start deleting all the stupid, off the top of someones's head, ignorant remarks. It really does show how uninformed so much of the American public really is. You go ahead and become someone's serf. I choose to stand up for myself and my brothers and sisters.
Droness 1 year ago
@Micheleeroo You know...I had a husband who thought just like you. In fact he was so sure all we did was sleep at work that he would not let me sleep at home. Ended up I started halucinating from lack of sleep. Blacking out. Just to hear you say something like that brings rage to my heart. I ended up being a single mother and doing much better without an idiot like that and like you.
Droness 1 year ago
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Before throwing too many stones at the CEO (I too think they make too much) I would be very curious to see the paystub for the head of the UAW, and the pay stubs of the UAW reps addressing this crowd. Also, when they are telling these workers that they are getting a pay cut, how much of a cut did the Unions bosses take?
ACRScout57 1 year ago
Before throwing too many stones at the CEO (I too think they make too much) I would be very curious to see the paystub for the head of the UAW, and the pay stubs of the UAW reps addressing this crowd. Also, when they are telling these workers that they are getting a pay cut, how much of a cut did the Unions bosses take?
ACRScout57 1 year ago
@ACRScout57 The union leaders make far too much money for the kind of representation members are getting. Members take a cut, union execs get a raise. They negotiate wages remain the same in the case of sale, meanwhile having secret meetings behind closed doors to reduce wages by 50%. No wonder they are being thrown out of union halls by their own members. Members now have to think for themselves when things like this happen. It becomes about upholding principle and integrity not just wages.
gtonmart 1 year ago
@gtonmart As a retired soldier, I have never been in a Union, nor, based on what I have observed, would I ever want to be in one. I joined the Army right out of High School, I stayed for a 20+ year career. As for union membership, I do get it, that there is power in numbers, but I fail to see the logic in turning my ability to negotiate over to someone that makes more money than I do and has absolutely no real incentive to get me the best possible deal. I prefer to control my own destiny.
ACRScout57 1 year ago
@ACRScout57 You can get all of that information from the Dept. of Labor web site. Yes, you are correct. It used to be that the top guy in the UAW was to make no more than the top paid Union worker. SO MUCH HAS CHANGED! That is why we want to take our Union back! They actually recently gave themselves a raise, but didn't call it that because it was already in their budget to do so!
Droness 1 year ago
@Droness Unions are OK for those who like them, but based on my situation I prefer to go it alone and based on my situation, the way I go about it is to offer my services based on my training, study and experience, and tell them what I want to get paid, if they accept, great, if not I deprive them of my services. After a military career, I entered the IT industry, but I refuse to work in a Union shop.
ACRScout57 1 year ago
@ACRScout57 That option does not exist in the factory environment. The company does not care how educated you are, how much experience you had before you got there, and if you have a union you cannot negotiate for yourselves. Depriving labor would be grounds for firing. If they are the negotiating body, then they are also responsible to the people, like it or not. When they aren't doing the job they are paid to do members are well within their right to throw them out of the union hall.
gtonmart 1 year ago
@gtonmart This was also not just about them not doing their jobs, it was about direct and blantant violations to the local contract, the International constitution that the Intl themselves wrote. They are obligated by nature of their own constitution to uphold certain rights, which they failed to do. Having secret meetings with the company without local union approval is illegal, and collusion with the company resulting is also a crime.
gtonmart 1 year ago
@gtonmart I realize that factory workers are heavily unionsized which is one reason I have avoided that type of work, and will never actively seek a factory job. I was offered several factory jobs right after I left the Army, I turned them all down simply based on their requirement of union membership.
ACRScout57 1 year ago
I see everyone thinks its the Unions and or Managment that killed american industry sorry your all wrong try our very own loving goverment with such lovely little things such as NAFTA and making China a Prefered trading partner lovely mabey everyone should all go back too school but alas the service industry is dying India on the phone can i help you. The facts are out there you have too stop believing everthing your told and actually look for the truth.
thorkmalin 1 year ago
Lots of misconceptions here, to start autoworkers do not work two hours a day. Most of them have serious health problems after 30 years and suffer carpel tunnel syndrome, cancers, nerve abnormalities, and other chemical causing deseases. I doubt that would be the case on a 2 hour workday. Many autoworkers are also educated with bachelors and masters, and chose to stay in the plant due to the pay level, so autoworkers these days are not uneducated. Stop generalizing and learn the facts please.
gtonmart 1 year ago
144 people at he UAW headquarters make at least $150,000 a year in salary. This is just not right. Unions are simply a terrorist organization and should be outlawed. Employees with no risk should not be allowed to destroy a company. Many members of my family worked for the auto companies for decades and I worked for them as a vacation replacement for two summers. I saw the outrageous behavior of the UAW members every day. Many would work for two hours or less each and every day.
woody14090 1 year ago
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gtonmart 1 year ago
@woody14090 Unions created the National Labor Day we all enjoy, are responsible for the 8 hr work day, legislation outlawing forced overtime, were responsible for the outlaw of child labor, (mother jones), pushed for govt legislation for OSHA and safe work standards across the board in all industries. Unions need to return to social advocates for the people instead of willy worms, but ALL AMERICANS ENJOY their past efforts. It is largely the workers that fought for them. Think about it.
gtonmart 1 year ago
Down with all internationalists/communists. Drive them down to Venezueala where they can starve to death a slow torturous death, or better yet, to HIV infested Africa.
focus21x 1 year ago
This is too funny.
poundsand 1 year ago
The UAW cannot be reform. They have degenerated fully into a company union as you yourself have stated. The union big wigs have financial incentives to reduce workers wages as they hold a stake in two major car companies. The heads of Local 23 will surely try to channel workers' anger into non-threatening channels. The rank and file members should form their own committees and call on their fellow brethen from GM, Chrysler and Ford (who find their wages and living standards being attack) to help
jjhova86 1 year ago