Tesla Turbine ( Carbon Fibre Disks)

[happyfox711]

What a stupid argument there... Maybe dangerous if you had operated at the pressures it was originally designed for. You know this turbine should work in the range from 30.000 rpms and up ? And 3 plates ??? One of the reasons the tesla turbine engine never really made it was because they did not design it to exact spec. Also 100.000 rpms 100 years ago was a bit much for a regular car (but perfect for high voltage and frequency generators) even if he could deliver it with a fluid transmission.

[htomerif]

Also, relatedly, does the turbine housing get cold during operation?

[gyroscopes]

@htomerif yes it does

[moonroverer]

Shouldn't this be treated like any other machine and have the power source disengaged before handling?

[gyroscopes]

@moonroverer ??? Sorry explain a little more?

[moonroverer]

@gyroscopes From a safety standpoint, when servicing a machine one should disengage the device from the power source. Power cord unplugged, bullets removed, pneumatic hose disengaged... the fact that there's a switch or valve between power and device isn't safe enough when fingers and eyes are on the line.

[gyroscopes]

@moonroverer So you are suggesting I disconnect the air before making changes? I would agree for many/most air power tools. In this case there little risk. The turbine fails very gracefully. I have tested to destruction and although it really hard to get them to fail they do fail gracefully. Electrics is low voltage but admittly high

frequency.

The biggest risk here is burning my finger on the bulbs which get very hot.

[moonroverer]

@gyroscopes The worst case scenario I could imagine would be a full pressure discharge as you're splitting the case, turning your nozzle, rotor and cover into projectiles. I'd bet dollars to donuts the nozzle could take an eye... Your videos are enjoyable and informational and I'd hate not to see more.

[gyroscopes]

@moonroverer The case is never going to split under the pressure used. It is 10mm thick ! Cap screws are stainless. Even if all 4 failed together the front section of the casing would just pop off. There isn't enough back-pressure to have enough energy to do anything else.

[gyroscopes]

@moonroverer Since you said you would bet dollars. I'm happy to setup an experiment (I do it behind polycarbonate sheet for your benefit). I'll open an air switch full open with a turbine assembled but with no screws. How does that sound? I don't think anything eventful will happy. $100 bet?

[johnnyrebangel]

I have to inject my 2 cents worth of opinion in here, since I fear Gyroscopes' most excellent setup and test got lost in the smoke of the safety lecture. Yes, Moonroverer, we need to stay safe when we're tinkering, but most of the guys who build Tesla turbines are using CD disks and acrylic housings. These are the ones who need a class on safety. Gyroscopes' setup looks like it could survive a small nuclear detonation next door and still function well. Good demo and very interesting!

[Bruce57740]

Are you interested in trying an air knife or Air Amplifiers targeting the disks?

seen Exair?

[gyroscopes]

@Bruce57740 Yes I would be. I have used air amplifers before but not air knifes.

[lbdavisjr]

I would like to make that work with a heat pump system to power the low voltage loads and maybe the indoor and outdoor fan motors

[walemys]

@leaualorin : i was just thinking the same and i was browsing YouTube for some Tesla turbine applications.

Is it possible to use solar light (even with simple mirrors like in the PS20 power plant in Spain) to get high pressurized water ( PS20 = 50 bar @ 285°C) and then inject it in many Tesla turbines (100 or more),and to mount them 10 by 10 for exp to rotate a larger alternator to get electrical energy ? and if it is possible, can this application compete with actual free energy technologies ??

[gyroscopes]

@walemys Yes on all counts. I beleave it can. I hope to have a small working solar version working over the summer.

[jib1000]

Oh boy, yet another tesla turbine video!!!! Tesla turbines are horribly inefficient, and expensive, which is why no one uses them...

[gyroscopes]

@jib1000 I would have to disagree. They have been not well know and misunderstood. It is only really since the Internet has got going that more people have learnt about them.

[jib1000]

@gyroscopes Well they've been around for almost 100 years. They've been tried in industrial applications and their cost combined with their efficiency makes them inferior to traditional turbines. Hence their total lack of use in industry.

[gyroscopes]

@jib1000 It was invented over 100 years ago. They are cheap to produce. Research has been limited but there is quite a lot of interest at the moment. Efficiencies are improving. I personally beleave there are markets were this technology is very useful.

[jib1000]

@gyroscopes They were invented in 1913, just short of 100 years ago. Thanks for attempting to correct me but there's no need. They aren't cheaper than traditional turbines to produce or maintain. Research has been limited??? Not so. Industries spend countless dollars on cheaper alternatives for energy production. Currently there is are no tesla turbines in use in industrial processes. Interest doesn't beat out cost.

[gyroscopes]

@jib1000 A Tesla turbine was first demonstrated 10th July 1906. The US patent was applied for 21st October 1909. It was granted as patent 1061206 on 6th May 1913. He patented improvements on and around the technology in a number of countries.

I hope to produce the first "off-the-shelf" commercial turbine in the 1 or 2 years. I am willing to quote for multi kW that is cheaper than a traditional turbine. If you need a quote please contact me.

[jib1000]

@gyroscopes good luck with that. You'll never get it to operate at a higher efficiency though. Like i said, less that 100 years.

[gyroscopes]

@jib1000 Lol. pessimist !

[gyroscopes]

@jib1000 I would disagree on both counts.

[jib1000]

@gyroscopes So what reasons do you think no one uses them at all?

[gyroscopes]

@jib1000 Business case.It was invented late compared to other types. it was patented. In the 1950-1970s some small research was done. Efficiency was unproven. Maths has only been sorted out in the last few years and we know it has it uses. But why would a company risk spending the R&D to only get something like what is already on the market? Is it not safer to go with conventional technology? I think know its benefits/uses. I'm willing to invest time+money too.

[jib1000]

@gyroscopes Actually the Tesla turbine was patented in the 20s or 30's. Efficiency is well established, and not enough to warrant additional production costs. Companies spend tons of money on R+D for things that don't work. Thats usually how we find out they don't work.

[gyroscopes]

@jib1000 It was patented on 21st October 1909 but Tesla first showed it off in July 1906. Still many decades after conventional turbines were powering industry

If you would like to share the eficiency calucations I would be most grateful. I would like to create a website so people can working out the effiiciency of the turbine they are about.

I drop you an e-mail in a moment.

[Tedddo]

Hi Glenn! I love your videos! I'm designing and building a Tesla turbine based on some improvements and models recently published in engineering journals for a school project. I don't know if anybody has asked you these questions, but I think you may be able to enlighten me here.

Where did you get the generator? (I've been looking at model airplane and UAV alternators) What kind of lights (perhaps analog power indicators perfect for demonstrations) are those and where do look for them?

[gyroscopes]

@Tedddo It is a brushless 3 phase generator. It was for a model plane. Works very well.

12 volt bulbs AC/DC bulbs.

[SomeoneCommenting]

You guys kill the most important part of science: creativity and imagination. If everybody starts suggesting what 'should' be the way to do things "correctly", no one will try different approaches that they think that may work. Maybe the best Tesla turbine is there waiting yet to be discovered, and I'm pretty sure that it will be a surprise far different from all the 'efficient' solutions proposed.

C'mon, let the other guys have fun with their inventions. Following recipes is not the way.

[DanFrederiksen]

nice build but I don't like the injector design. why restrict the airflow to tiny holes??

why not make room in the side of the casing where the unrestricted air can find its own way into the gaps. it's very inefficient to pass high volume air through tiny holes

[gyroscopes]

@DanFrederiksen I just put the air where it is needed. It also have the benefit on keeping the pressures high which improves performance. tried both ways and for air this works very well. Have even played around with CD nozzles.

[DanFrederiksen]

@gyroscopes clogging the nozzles also keeps the pressure high. you should start thinking in terms of efficiency. get some measurements going to guide your work. the tesla turbine is not interesting unless it can be relatively efficient too. if it can it could be very interesting. extremely even

[gyroscopes]

@DanFrederiksen It does. I actually threaded them and put grubs screws in so they can be removed. I have thought about efficiency from the start. It is now many times more efficient. Next one (will upload video to youtube) in a week or two.

I agree that the tesla turbine does need to be efficient. Although it does have many benenfits over normal turbines if you disregard efficiency.

BTW: I quite sure I can get the efficiency up to around normal turbine levels.

[waragainstgreed]

@gyroscopes

have you thought about using something like a medical syringe to get the air jets closer to the contact holes in the turbine? you might have to space the disks slightly further apart but to have the more direct contact i think would boost efficiency by 30% or more.

[gyroscopes]

@waragainstgreed Yes I have. Been testing something like this. Had actually designed some rocket nozzles to increase air speed. It didn't work. math wrong?? Anyway yes you can gain extra performance with such concepts.

[hottermale]

@gyroscopes

Awesome work!!

Have you tried with more disks and nozzles?

Why don't you try to make it high power (i.e. 1KW) ?

[samclmnt]

what air pressure are you running at ? and what clearance have you got between the discs and the housing, and have you tried it with no load at all ?

[gyroscopes]

@samclmnt 100-120psi usually. but have tried as low as 20psi.

gap between disks 1-3mm. Have tried various setups.

[gyroscopes]

@samclmnt Normally 100-120psi. About 1mm, have tried less. Have tried no load. Runs at upto 80,000rpm.

[pommyrooter]

@leaualorin even using a system with Fresnel Lenses it is very efficient, there is a system out there on youtube. Im sure adding a Tesla turbine, that has been advanced more so, would make that system that is already efficient more so.

So to answer your question yes, yes oh god yes.

[LarryCanFly]

Can you get more power with fins/blades?

[adamjbradley]

That's great news, I've got some plans for a large turbine but wanted to start small to test my collection/heat xfer/re-condensing system and power generation side :)

[adamjbradley]

Where did you get the carbon fibre disks from? Definitely want this!

[gyroscopes]

@adamjbradley Made on a small milling machine. There will be a new version of this turbine on sale Mid November. Quite a few improvements!

[SvenOkonomi]

@gyroscopes Yeah I got curious and looked up some theories on it. Its quite shocking to say the least, someone invented this a lifetime ago and it hasn't been picked up yet. I wonder if theres some large scale efficient energy to be won with this, since it does seem to rely on platters being so close together. I doubt you could simply scale it up and say stick it in a large dam or wind funnel?

[gyroscopes]

@ferdinand7004 adding load at a later stage does not make any difference

[SvenOkonomi]

Im not sure what the point of all this is though, isnt it just a brushless motor with a REALLY complicated fan attached to it? Pretmuch a wind turbine like we already use?

[gyroscopes]

@SvenOkonomi no it is quite different. I suggest you do some research on the subject as it is likely to be very useful in the future.

[SvenOkonomi]

@gyroscopes Yeah I got curious and looked up some theories on it. Its quite shocking to say the least, someone invented this a lifetime ago and it hasn't been picked up yet. I wonder if theres some large scale efficient energy to be won with this, since it does seem to rely on platters being so close together. I doubt you could simply scale it up and say stick it in a large dam or wind funnel?

[maco10810]

Secondly and it may be a bad idea you would have to try it but because the air gap on the outer diameter of the "blades" is so large if you sand blasted them to make them rough it could help with a faster tip speed - but the inner surfaces still need to be polished to keep the spiral path as fine as possible and to be able to make as many useful rotations as possible to keep the efficiency at 95%

[maco10810]

I have had a bit of a read and here are my suggestions to improve the efficiency please advise if you dont agree as I only read what a Tesla turbine was 30 min ago so I could be way off base - If you use impulse turbine nozzles to introduce the air at a very high velocity then the rotational velocity of the outer gas ring will be much higher

[ayoung2112]

@leaualorin: I just received my parabolic mirror today and are planning on building a Tesla turbine.

[sschoon86]

Has anyone ever attempted to capture the waste heat from car exhaust and using it to turn a stirling engine or a tesla turbine, which would turn a generator to charge batteries in a hybrid? This seems like it would be efficient because there is would be no added load to the ICE as is the case with current hybrids. Most of the wasted efficiency of an ICE is wasted heat energy right?

[fomalhaut86]

@sschoon86 If You could find the way to cool down the exhaust gases without disturbing their flow , and than use that energy to recharge batteries than yes, the engine would be more efficient (check: Carnot cycle - efficiency depandes on the diffrence between the temperature of the heater and the cooler) But if You would disturb the flow of the gases the result would be a loss in power output and eficiency. I think it's better to just turbocharge the engine and than use it wisely :)

[gyroscopes]

Yep it has already been thought about and people are working on it.

[llewgnal]

How about sharpening the edges of the disks ?

[proverb311031]

can you imagine how many things the government have held back from us all, that would have pushed our technology far ahead, after all the government took his work after he dided!

[milovsmigo]

jajaja amazing... 29035 R.P.M... Nikola Tesla is the best inventor ever!!! good work guys.

its a motor brushless DC ?

greetings from Argentina

[BOSSMACH351]

try co2 or an expandable gas and see what the % is.also put a weighted flywheel on it with mallory weights and see what happens.hummm

[help8help]

I have read that a tesla tubine could be used as an air compressor. I don't know how effective that would be, but I think it would mean that the air wouldn't be contaminated with oil like a piston driven compressor.

I wonder what kind of pressure could be generated.

I also notice that you seem to be using a three phase brushless motor. Have you put its output on an ocilliscope to see what kind of output you're getting?

[help8help]

I am impressed.

What hapens if you increase the diameter of the device?

Do you find that the lighter carbon fiber disks are the best material so far?

[gyroscopes]

improving the disk size can improve thigns because the air is 'touching' the disk for longer. I discovered that carbon fiber disks are a waste of time. steel or aluminium are just fine.

[adaminc]

If you were going to maximum efficiency and a higher rpm, wouldn't carbon fiber be better since the discs would weigh less and handle more centripetal forces?

[Bobcatharrier]

I look at a lot of these....all I see them doing is powering a couple light bulbs...ok for proof of concept.....where is the full size application?

[gyroscopes]

It was a forgotten about technology until recently. Its been dormant.

However there has been some larger scale projects recently although not on youtube.

[TerdFurg3zon]

If you modify your inlet so that it is tangent to the housing, you'll see a marked improvement in performance. The "old man" did it that way. There's a significant amount of head loss from turbulence introduced by running the inlet supply axially like it's shown in the video. Avoiding turbulence was the mantra of the design. Also, pulse your air supply if you can. The results will surprise you. Excellent craftsmanship, keep it up.

[gyroscopes]

The air does go in at a tangent.

[TerdFurg3zon]

Get rid of the nozzle. Just trying to keep you from reinventing the wheel, literally. You seem to be one of the folks caring about measurements and quality of manufacture, but don't respect that there's been a ton of research done on this stuff already since the 1900's. Read up more on it, dig more, and trust the math that you come across. When you build one of these things correctly, you'll net about 60% efficiency. Then you need to try resonant-pulsed medium...that's where the magic is. :-)

[gyroscopes]

Really? I'm testing everything as a go along to double check. I've found that standand inlet like tesla used does works. However some of the more modern patents/documents show changes to the inlet nozzles and they were right. I now progressed (not show on youtube) to other designs which show even great performance.

If I remove the nozzle performance drops. A lot.

Pulsing is being left until last.

[Bradtomshore]

hey so don't suppose you have worked out an estimate of efficiency? Really good to see people researching more into things that could possibly benefit humanity.. keep up the good work :D

[gyroscopes]

Its actually under 15% but each version I have done the efficiency jumps. I have a target of 50% for the mk3.

[TheArtistOfKuroo]

I want this guy's job.

[Demoman42]

Wow! It's about 500 rolls per second! whats damn fast!!

[gyroscopes]

I have. it can and I know about the nozzle design.

I am building another

[BlakeMason2]

Neat! What kind of wee motor did you use for the DC generator? That looks like more than 20 watts in the lighting--impressive!

[gyroscopes]

Its AC. Its good for over 100 watts.

[Whipit8rapture]

is there any reason why you only used 3 carbon fibre discs not ten like the standard model?

[gyroscopes]

yes I was trying out all sorts of options. And found for this setup 3 was working better than 10. e.g. high pressures but reduced volume of air.

[Dragonstud]

would be a nice easy method of making small compressed air bikes or cars....nice engineering

[ston932]

way too much loade ! the rpm with loade should be about 50% of the rpm without loade.

[backwardsreaction]

i like the way you spell load.

[lioninetyrant]

Could you combine this with a Fransnel lens based solar water heater, to produce steam then put the steam as the source of pressure into this and generate AC? BTW I love Tesla, the man was gifted beyond all other men I've ever known with the shear amount of creativity and genius God bestowed on that one man. Everything modern from TV, to Lasers to Internet we owe to inventions or concepts introduced by Tesla. Other than Stan Meyer's I can think of few more gifted with such profound revelations.

[boraboy4ever]

so whats the point? how do you capture air in the natural world? it takes energy just to run it? or am i wrong?

[Exmech2]

The pressure of the air remains constant. The pressurized air comes in the input, and out the output. What if the output were connected to the input of another Tesla Turbine? How about daisy chaining 50 of them?

[gyroscopes]

The pressure reduces as it goes through the turbine. Turbines work because of pressure differences. daisy chaining dues produce more power but only to to about 3 units. I have tried it.

[Exmech2]

How about decreasing the size of the output aperture?

[gyroscopes]

Its like a valve. As you close off the output the turbine slows down. in very much the same way as a valve on the inlet. As I said you NEED a pressure difference for it to work.

[trossachs2003]

You are not wrong and I don't know why you get 2 thumbs-downs for asking a valid question.

The Tesla is merely a particular type of turbine. It only coverts pressurised air into kinetic energy. This is perfectly fine and valid. It may be cheaper, or more efficient than other turbines; I don't know.

The problem is some people misreading this and other "energy/technology" videos as ways of getting free energy. That is the mistake.

[BoldUniverse]

Good video, thanks for that. Keep up the good work.

[JamboyStu]

This is cool. Are you just using it to demonstrate the principal, or are you using it to power something?

[gyroscopes]

I'm running a number of experiments to improve the efficiency. There will be commerical unit on sale in a month or two.

We already sell a demonstration unit.

[2RobertGoddard]

So this is both a reactionary and a impulse turbine? Or does this fall under a new category? Ide go with reactionary because it uses drag and impulse because your using veined air. Love to see how small this could get. Im an inventor and came across this searching for small steam turbine designs. Thanks

[gyroscopes]

A normal tesla turbine is reactionary. However hybrid designs have been development. In fact I'm just about to cut so new blades to see how these hybrid designs are !

[screwball3z]

What pressure was being used? it appeared to me as 100 psi.

[gyroscopes]

correct

[ehnriko]

WOW!

[disndat11]

I have to second blibgnu's post. I had such a hard time understanding what you were saying. The video made up for it though. Brilliant work. hope to see more.

Greetings from Iran

[tricky778]

Is gyroscopes from gloucestershire?

[gyroscopes]

yes

[futahroid]

I BELIEVE

[will4i8am]

*O*

its really cool

im goin get one!

[MrfixitRick]

Cool! Thanks for posting this latest development.

[blibgnu]

Curse! I understand nothing in this video, please articulate and speak more clearly :'(

[couttsy222]

It's called "English" -- a language that is spoken in many places. I come from the opposite side of the world where I gather this gentlemen is from and I was able to understand him perfectly