These are STILL PHOTOs taken out of context. When you see the video, the horse accept the release of the rein by stretching the rein down and out. I am so tired of hearing unknown, low level riders, criticizing some of the great trainers of this century w/out understanding anything of the different styles and methods.
@Agilitypoodle385 French, German, Russian, Swedish, English, Baroque (i.e. Spain and Portuguese horses)....etc., etc. Each emphasizes different qualities. Russian horses rarely lower their quarters when they do Piaffe. Until this whole Hyperflexion debate started, many of the classical German style trainers were dissing Freisians, Adalusians, and other baroque breeds (where neck must be arched for horse to feel comfortable and balanced)....seems like every few years "styles" change.
@Agilitypoodle385 "It is not THE system, it is A system"...George Morris. Until it is proven not to work, and unless her horses physically or mentally break down, we should not criticize. Question, maybe. Criticize, no. HATE ANKY ("she should be shot"), start meddling in people's proven training methods, absolutely not. A real Pandora's box, ripe for rule by hypocrisy and ignorance. Try reading Monty Roberts. He explains how different methods can work, and why. LDR worked for my horses.
Yo creo que la hiperflexión desde mi punto de vista no les puede causar ningún daño si se hace suavemente y en momentos puntuales, es más creo que está muy bien que se hagan ejercicios de flexión y estiramiento antes de cualquier ejercicio en el cual el caballo tenga que llevar los músculos más o menos tensionados durante todo el tiempo que dure la exhibición, de otra manera se contracturarían seguramente y podrían producicirse roturas fibrilares
bei der einstellung wird das pferd doch nie den rücken freigeben. wenns "gut" aussieht heißt es ja nicht das es das auch ist. sowas kann ich garnicht ab -.-
i took equine anatomy and equine physiology curses back in college and someone brought this up. needless to say i cringed when we discussed it. in my OWN OPINION (i'm not a vet but..), this shouldn't be practiced. its an awkward, unnatural position for the horse. try putting your chin to your sternum and hold it there .. not fun, is it? you shouldn't need to contort your partner in order to win a competition. again .. my opinion.
so too deep...-_- and if i see the related videos you see all those horses are too deep :S
i own 2 horses, they both do it perfectly. the oldest one does it always perfectly, and the youngest (just 5) does it sometimes to deep outof hisself if im stepping out. i dont know why he does that, but if we work he does it perfectly too.
@citydog i agree. i have problems with my tb who unless u practically hold his head on the verticle will just go straight into it. we get his vet checked reguarlly and never has seemed to cause any problems to him.
@em352 Well if he is doing that, its not natural.. why would he want to go into such an uncomfortable position when he literally cant see anything but the floor??
@em352 Oh ok thats better.. but all horses wton go past the comfort zone in which they outline properly, only if they are asked too much.. so if he has been going nicely in outline and you have asked him for more.. he will overbend
Man könnte Sie ja eigentlich anzeigen, das Bildmaterial auf you tube müsste für eine deftige Anzeige reichen, nur macht das keiner und ich bin keine Deutsche sondern Italienerin!!!! Kommt Leute, auf in den Kampf, wir wollen Tierquälerei einfach nicht mehr sehen und basta!!!!! Gute Idee nicht???
ja müsste man es gibt zwar noch andere wie andreas helgstrand aber anky ist die schlimmste von allen! ich finde es einfach nur schlimm wie sowas bei der olympiade gewinnen kann! ich würde es gerne machen aber dazu müssten wir schon ein paar mehr sein .... lg
Das ist der Ausverkauf der Reitkunst!Das wollen wir nicht sehen!Mit Hyperflexion wird das Pferd erniedrigt und es wird ihm Schmerzen sowie körperl. Schaden zugefügt.
Es wundert mich das es keiner sieht das arme Tier..jetzt mal an die Tierquäler:stellt euch mal vor wir würden so ein gebiss euch in den mundrammen und auf euch setzen und am zügel rumziehen und eben mal so mit der gerte auf euch rumklatschen gefällt euch das?ihr sagt nein stimmts..ja weils wehtut dem tier tuts auch weh das Tier hat auch Gefühle sogar manchmal sensiebler als ihr und die tiere merken es hat keinen sinn sich zu wehren das sie sowieso wieder geschlagen werden
when i was taught dressage and as i still train in it today, the strength and guidance of the legs was important not the holding of the hands against the bit. I was taught to give the horse strength through his back in order to carry his neck higher ... not to hold it up there because then the animal hollows out and risks injury. Many times, when my trainer thought I was depending on my hands too much, i would have to ride the whole lesson with my hands behind my back
Ok I haven't actually seen this video but a ton of the things that are circled are not hyperflexion. So many horses are trained to have no strength in their backs and rear legs and then are expected to perfom. it is a proven thing that horses trained in dressage are at much lower risk of arthritis in their future. Dressage originated as a method to make it easier on the horse to carry a rider.
Essentials of the aids and their effects on the horse's body-scheme and movement are marked. The slides have been taken out of the DVD-video-material.
it's not showing where the horse is hyperflexed. it's in part, about what it does to the horse
i really dont like dressage becase these poor horse have to suffer all this. why dont we se what they want. we should have a lovely comunication through trust and love not hard cold silver bits and ugly shit on there head. give them a break. do cross country for there sake. let them run free and jump.
i agree. i will never understand y ppl have 2 use so many bits in 1 mouth. i tried dressage 1ce with my reiner he got really mad about the whole hard contact thing.
Remember though, this is not true dressage. There should NEVER be hard contact. It should always be soft and yielding. There are just as many bad bits in cross country. I'm not a fan of double bridles because they re so often misused, but in correctly trained hands they are fine.
well i should have rephrased that, i ment it didnt like contact on his mouth all the time, hes happy if u just ask 4 his face and then give him a loose rein and leave him alone lol. i like curb bits but ya i agree- this isnt real dressage.
i know youre not looking to start a fight, i know i know i know, btu i do want to give my opinion on this in a friendly spirit. dressage was created to foster and grow the bond between a horse and his rider. dressage helps a horse develop both his physical and mental strength and teaches him that yeah, he can hold himself up properly with a rider on his back. as Jim Wofford said, "Art ends where Violence begins."
lol no, rollkur iz a dizguzting perverzion of drezage. what i waz zaying iz that zuch a degredation - az in thiz haz become almozt common practize-of drezage waz bound to happen. thiz iz what humanz do-we literally rape and pillage everything around uz for our own pleazure/comfort. when itz too late we are left paying for yearz of ignorance of our own and generation before uz. zad, but true. you might have to decode the mezzage a bit lol had a fizh tank accident, it burzt and water went every..
in top competitions is no incentive what so ever. But then, I wonder, why don't they just do it at home then? If they do it just for the love of the horses...just enjoy schooling them and training them...such methods as rollkur would never have come about if people weren't so interested in winning and beating everyone else. And I quote Anky "it allows me to get that extra edge, those last two percentage points, on the competitiors." Perhaps I'm reading into it a little too much but it seems..
These poor horses are in a nonstop nightmare and their riders simply play to win with no consideration to the comfort of the horse. Welcome to " modern dressage " and it is not normal...
OK this is normal movement for a dressage horse. Their necks bend like that to get easier movement. I know this is normal. Their legs bend like while moving and considered speed like paffe or lafet. I am a vet if this was a problem i would see it right away.
No, it is incorrect. Why do you think they are not ridden like this in a test? The worst part is people actually think this is normal because upper level riders are using this.
1.What conversation? I don't think comments qualify as conversation.
2.I discussed the effects of rollkur which happen in very horse trained with it, not just one person's horse. Please make sure you know what you're referring to before commenting on it. Someone claimed rollkur was good and I questioned that by providing detrimental effects.
The poll should be the highest point to help balance a horse on its hind end, but this working frame takes effort and should of course be balanced with long and low and loose rein. Straightness of the riders body is a very fundamental, critical thing. If nothing else, at least be straight and even.
necks and moved identically to when their frames where high.When a horse lowers its head and neck endorphins are released that calm.They all purred with contentment!No doubt they enjoyed it!This is not RK but there are striking similarities.RK is not without its faults but to say there is no value in it is ignorance.When we learn what works in it and clearly something does,we might gain a deeper understanding of our classical principles and our horses will ultimately benefit.Not a RK promotion!
I agree with your idea, but here's my question. Did the horse's hold that position for extended periods of time without breaks? I would have to disagree that it is ignorance, rollkur is rollkur. May a few seconds of slight hyperflexion help a stiff horse soften the poll, quite probably. It's not something I would use, but since that slight use of it on rare occasions won't have degenerating effects it's fine, not when horse are pulled and spurred into this for every session for long periods.
Daisy,Why would you accuse me of being a fraud?I stand behind everything in that website.I never said I was for rollkur!I never said it was great because anky won using it!I certainly never promoted it. Your a pathetic dishonest debater!If your gonna quote me, read it first!Let me enlighten your narrow mind. No, the horses in the pasture did not do RK, but they did often times become over round and they all drop their heads to the gound without going on the forehand.The came extra deep in their
And I quote "How about you explain how Anky, Nicole, and Isabell have or had so much success with this technique if it is so bad." You are defending it, and yet say you stand for classical priciples and learning from the horse, that's what I don't get. Rollkur and classical do not go together; you cannot be a classical rider if you think rollkur is fine. Did the horses hold it there for more than five minutes, even more than just a minute? No response to the scientific comments I see.
How am I being dishonest, because I have a reasonable question you don't like? Also, take into account those horses had no weight on ther back their to carry and hold up, so they are not going to fall onto the forehand flinging their head back for a few seconds, probably even wouldn't with a rider, but rollkur is not a few seconds, it's the entire training sessions and therein lies the problem with it.
In rollkur the purpose is to ride the horse extra deep.Deepness can "never" be created by pulling a horses head down and in as it can only be created through relaxation! But to the "uneducated" eye it may seem that way. Just as in Classical Dressage the horse is asked to move from the HQ forward over the back, shoulder and through the neck.The difference being the RK horse is asked/allowed to lower the poll(a commonly accepted relaxation tool).The deeper the rider asks the rounder the back&neck.
Wow, after looking at your website how can you possible be for rollkur. It's all about harmony with the classical principles. FYI rollkur goes against every classical principle and is in no way classical. You talk about watching horse's in pasture showing the correct way; were they ever in rollkur? Can you say fraud; you promote classicl principles and then go around talking about how great rollkur must be because Anky wins with it. Classical riding is not about winning; it's about the horse.
You claim the purpose to rollkur is to hold the horses head down and in.Daisy you do not know what you are talking about and thats a fact.You don't like rollkur for the same reasons other people dont like it.Because you know nothing about it and "videos" like this which are edited to make it look as bad as possible.How can we the public make an informed decision without seeing both sides to it and there are always 2 sides to a story and the fact of the matter is you do not know the other side.
That is how its practiced. People claim the purpose is to stretch to neck. Please, feel free to inform exactly what its purpose is and how you practice that. There are plenty of unedited videos on here that show exactly what it is.
Daisy, you claimed that rollkur was bad for horses and tried to outline what you thought was incorrect movement. The FEI issued and official statement that says quite the opposite!! Your strongest argument is that anky's horse doesn't sit into the piaffe. Finding a fault in a grand prix ride doesn't not indicate abuse as you claim. All riders and horses have strengths and weaknesses.Why are you pretending to know what you are talking about. Need more proof?
Actually the FEI vets issued a statement condemning it as mental abuse. Your only argument for it is that Anky wins so it must be good. Rollkur puts the horse's back in such a position that the lumbar spine locks, and as result the abdominal muscles have to contract much more than normal making the horse tense. The jerky movement and flashy front leg movement comes from the fact that so much weight is beared by the front legs.
In the neck the nuchal ligament is stretched while the neck muscles are compressed, causing bony reinforcements at the attachment and constant pain. The underside of the neck overdevelops the incorrect muscles as these are not meant to hold the head in like that for extended periods of time. The horse cannot see in front of it in this position. The windpipe is compressed making it difficult to breathe.
your a genius! Those stupid judges and doesn't Anky know that all horses that aren't trained in Rollkur have perfect piaffes!! It's that simple huh? Do you even know how rollkur is ridden? Do you have any clue as to why someone might want to use the technique? And I cant' find a video on Rollkur just ones like this..slide shows. Why slide shows? Video is a much more effective tool!!
No, not all horses will have perfect piaffes, but I have never seen a horse trained in rollkur sit into their piaffe and engage. Yes, I know how rollkur is ridden and the reasons as to why someone would want to use it. If you can't find a single video of rollkur on here, all I can say is wow. I can't even count the number of them there's so many.
I think an honest debate on any topic is healthy and necessary and inevitably beneficial to rider and horse. Slander and misleading propoganda just divide. If Anky rode the way this slide show made it look there would be no possible way she would win. Portraying this as ripping on a horses mouth is a pathetic attempt at protesting rollkur.Show the good with the bad. Pick your favorite rider and lets take snapshots of their worst moments and accuse them of abuse!
daisy, I am an expert in horse mechanics nobody knows horse locomotion like I do..and you miss the point..She wins because her horse moves correctly!! That is what dressage is all about!! You can't simply claim she doesn't because you don't like the way she gets it. And I can respect that but credit where credits due. Surely your not suggesting the judges don't know correct movement.
first of all...dressage is my life..second of all..I have every intention on competeing in the olympics. Roughly 3 years ago I purchased a horse to train and sell. In short she was being dumped because she was abused to the point of her brain being fried. She is the toughest horse I have ever worked with and I specialize in problem horses. Before and after video coming soon. I will never sell her.
no the "in" thing is to bag on rollkur as if it compares to the obvious abuses that you outlined. Those techniques could never develop in the quality of work that you see Anky, Isabelle and Nicole get. Because pain, discomfort and force do not equal relaxation, suppleness and obedience. You clearly have no idea how difficult it is to acheive these qualities which is to say no discipline is as difficult as dressage. Read the FEI manual and learn.
I've hated rollkur since I learned about. So many people express their dislike of it nowadays because it is more well-known. The problem is they don't have that quality of work. The horse's rythym is lost, the hindlegs trail out behind, and the horse's move with quick and jerky movements. Anyone who doesn't like rollkur has no idea how difficult it is and needs to learn, that's a new line. That's about the only defense people ever come up with. You read it, because this goes against it.
These ladys would not win if their horses did not display the correct qualities!!As described in the FEI manual!!Thats a fact!!This is where the controversy lies.You may not like the way they get it but you cannot deny that they do..this is evidence to your level of education.However, the lack of qualities as you describe would be evident of people attempting the technique without guidance but the same can be said for poorly ridden "classical" techniques. You have just been schooled!!
Yes, poor riding in any case is bad, but rollkur is never good. Please, tell me exactly how it is beneficial to the horse. Look at the videos on here and you will see the jerky, unrythmic movement because the horse's back is locked up they have to jerk their feet up quickly to even support the weight. In the canter the moment of suspension isn't even there because there is so much stress of the forehand. Been schooled? Lol. I think someone needs to take an equine anatomy and physiology class.
I'm not looking to start an argument but I'm surious to know just how much you know about hyperflexion? Do you practise it regulary? etc...
Also can you explain to me why you think that a horse that, for an almost an entire test is behind the vertical and yet still will win? When FEI rules state the poll should be the highest point and the face on or above the vertical?
How is it horses that actually display opposite traits, you could say, of FEI descriptions of what is correct, win?
i wonder that myself. my theory is that it has more to do w/ populatrity than actual riding skill. look at these past Olympics. Satchmo misbehaved twice, and Isabel still got the silver. (i know shes a damn good rider; i just dont think she should have scored THAT high. top 5 definetly.) its sad the way modern dressage is going. i think it was Charles de Knuffy who said "Competitive riding should be classical riding at its best."
I read that Jim Wofford article as well, it was quite interesting. In the use of the flash nose band as a gadget-though it is not designed as one, it can certainly be used as one. I know what dressage was supposed to do, but I don't think it does that any more. It's all show now. Mind you, I suppose it had to change. Horses lost their purpose when machinery took over and now it is simply sport. And like all sport it is, to a certain extent, corrupt.
i dont really have a problem w/ flash nosebands, when used CORRECTLY and with CORRECT riding. the problem comes when ppl abuse it. its sad to see what dressage is becoming. i think that weve gotten the mentality of " i can do whatever i want and i wont be punished, instead, i get money and blue ribbons". *shrugs* i honestly dont think its going to change any time soon. specially now that its more widely publized, what w/ magazines and the internet
Flash nose bands are a bit like spurs. They're fine when fitted correctly and used correctly. The Jim Wofford article was nattering on about flash nose bands when not used correctly, as a band aid instead, to jam the horse mouth shut when he resists the bit because his training has never taught or allowed him to accept it. But yeah, dressage is not likely to change any time soon. People say that "top" riders do it for the horse, because they love it, that the huge pools of money offered..
she is bascially saying it's all about her winning. She wants to win for a reason. I'm sure the money is one of those. She, and the rest, wouldn't be who they are without all that money...ahhh money makes the world go round. To the detriment of our horses.
yeah, thats pretty much it. way back when, ppl rode to improve themselves and their horses. sure, a few of them might have gotten a little too winning-oriented and realized their mistake. but now its ALL about winning comps, having a big horse w/ big gaits, and moving up as fast as possible. and training methods, such as hyperflexion, come about and stay b/c judges nowadays are either a) too slow to recognize when a horse is BTV, or b) just doesnt care.
It's about how much money you've got so you can buy the "best" horse and afford the "best" training so you can win the "best" competitions ;)
There have been countless people here purchase very expensive horses from europe and import them (a lot from Kasslemann *puke!!*), ride trying to imitate these methods, win the first few competitions and next season, or even at the end of the first one, they're no where to be seen. Either the horse wouldn't tolerate the training in question and mostly..
so many like them...with the horses nose practically touching the chest. Slightly behind the bit is just that-or over flexion, whether by mistake or not. "Severe" hyperflexion is what these riders practise. And how they practise it, too. Grrrr!
female NZ riders, used to riding sensitive, intelligent TB's find they cannot handle these big, powerful frieght train warmbloods when they want to throw a tanty or the horse goes lame. Consequently he is sold on or if the issue is mostly in training, sent back to the land "from whence he came." Strange, but true. Also for those who argue that they hyperflexion is ANYTHING behind the bit...well, I'm sorry man, but it's not. Hyperflexion is that which is so clearly displayed in these videos and..
actually, hyper = more than, and flexion = bending. so basically its over-bending the horse, most noticeably at the neck. you see it alllll the time in competion.
This is called rollkur, her training method. It is not out of context; there are plenty of videos. The purpose is to hold the horse's head down and in.
It is important to remember that horses tell the ultimate story and Anky's horses do not tell a story of abuse infact quite the opposite.IF your "eye" is any good you can see the horses are relaxed and free from tension and other than poll position have every quality described in the FEI manual. With her success there is clearly something she is doing right and should be respected if if not understood.Americans need to learn to respect each other and learn humility. If you can do better show us.
I can assure you, after your breif comment, that I know much more than you. Put your hate aside and debate like a grown up. How about you explain how Anky, Nicole, and Isabell have or had so much success with this technique if it is so bad. If it produces such results that educated judges around the world reward it readily should we not learn from it. Something in it works and we would all do better to understand that.
Soring used to win in saddleseat, heck horses still wear chains and big padded/weighted shoes to win, but that sure isn't good for them. Western pleasure horses with tails held down with fish weights and having heads tied up all night win, but it isn't good for them. The only thing to learn from this is how far human egos and greed will go. Nothing about this method is good for the horse, or rider for that matter, but it's the "in" thing to do so people follow.
Animal cruelity happens in all forms. Wonder how she would feel if someone hauled her head into a tucked position while pulling her leg back to her shoulderblades. Is this woman uneducated or just don't care??? Both appearantly.
If you think i'm not educated enough understanding horses, why on gods earth do i have lesson/clinics with Sue Hill who competed at Badminton Horse Trials and trained by David Hunt? also why do i have lessons with Spencer Wilton (to you reigning British Dressage Championships) partners with Carl Hester!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing wrong with this method at all!! Germans and top Scientists have examined the method and found there was no problem or damage to any of the horses, even Bonfire was used in the experiment 10yrs of competing him and training him this method. If you really care about animals go and protest the slaughter and animal cruelty first bfore buttering a great horse person you will ever see on this planet!! just admit your jealous!!!!
Circles and Lines don't meen anything.!!! Anky knows how to use this method in good faith. REMEMBER EVERYONE NICOLE UPHOFF STARTED ROLLKUR BEFORE ANYONE RIDING REMEBRANDT SO STOP YOU ARSEHOLE CRITICS SAYING ANKY IS ABUSIVE BECAUSE SHE ISN'T!! Any of her horses have been out of Competition because of Injury? NO NO NO!!!!
IT is abusive. To see it otherwise you are not educated well enough to see that it is. How can forcing an animal to do such a thing, anything other than abusive.
And people think performance (apha and aqha) western and english horses are abused, look at how unnatural this is! this COULD hurt a horse, unlike western and english pleasure, and there movements are soooo unnatural, what kind of horse really springs in the air like that all of the time just because it can? not a normal one, maybe if a stud or in heat, or excited, but not for no reason.
dat er variatie inzit, bij voorwaarts-neerwaarts bijvoorbeeld word het paard ook wat ruimer en dieper gereden da normaal om zijn rug te laten ontspannen enzo. Anky zal
echt niet dingen gaan doen die niet goed zijn voor haar paarden hoor. En dan zou haar paard trouwens verzet tonen, wat niet het geval is, want hij ziet er heel ontspannen uit !
Anky is a great rider however she over uses and abuses the task of training a horse to go long and low (which yes they can go behind the vertical while lowering the neck as it changes the center of balance) BUT this takes it to an extreme that isnt correct.
als anky echt zo slecht is zou ze geen GOUD op de olypische spelen van dit jaar hebben gehaald vandaag! met nogal 82,400% dus ik zou maar nisk zeggen als ik jou was. haha bok.
Each minute a horse is ridden like this is damaging its body AND its mind. THIS IS SCHOCKING!!!!! Muscles and movement qualities can be developed in a better way. These horses are tense and their body is hurting.
that utter BS. study up, or mabye just use your eyes. notice the riders hand position, well shes holding the horses head there! with a double bridle you dont have to apply much pressure to inflict pain on the mouth.
ik zou zeggen, verbeter de wereld begin bij jezelf. Als Anky echt zo slecht rijd als jij zegt zou ze niet zo hoog in de sport rijden, de puntjes die jij geeft zijn enkel alleen moment opnames, en ik denk dat Anky zat ervaring & ervaren mensen om zich heen heeft dat ze weet waarmee ze bezig is! Dus ik vind dit filmpje een beetje onzin eerlijk gezegt.
Not always. My green bean is being ridden by a trainer who has very light hands, and is being ridden in a Myler Mbo2, and still curls. HE isn't evading, he just has a natural tendency to curl. It is quite common actually, and with further correct training, it will cease!
Regardless of the issue here, comparing any position of the horse to any position of a person is completely ridiculous. Horses and humans are built completely differently, so tucking your chin to your chest is in no way equivalent to a horse tucking his chin to his chest. Whatever discomfort, pain, restriction of airways, etc., is not the same as what a horse who is overflexed would feel. Therefore, this is an invalid argument and not a good way to address this method, however you feel about it.
I don't like it at all. It looks horrid and the horse is over flexed. Why train it then ride DIFFERENTLY in a test. No, I'm completely against it, I wouldn't be surprised that if in the future that was is lame or crippled...We'll see.
einfach nur traurig!und sowas wird auf tunieren noch zugelassen sehen die das denn nicht??verstehe das einfach nicht!!kann nur sagen die armen pferde was die alles durchmachen müssen!
I just don't understand a lot of what people do. I ride Dressage and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and training methods. And yes any riding in any form by bad hands can cause pain to their horses. what I don't understand with hyperflexion/Rollkur is how it helps (according to those who use it) because to me it looks very unnatural and you wouldn't ride like that in a test.
If I had to relate it to people, it would almost be like stretching my neck up as much as possible but pulling my chin in and just holding it there...I can't relax like that at all. Then again I am sure it works for some horses and not for others also. Does anyone know the supposed purpose of using hyperflexion/?
In this position it can't do anything, so the rider is save. The horse must do what you want, if pain or not is not really important. When the horse bites in its chest it is best, because then you are the boss. Never mind about the horses feelings, it only matters that the rider feels good and save and the horse look good and do anything you want.
So? i know plenty of intelligent Australians. You, are not one of them.
How can a rider be "safe" when the horse is in pain? Thats not the way to ride. You ride whats best for your horse, and you. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, because you do not need to inflict pain on the horse in order to have control. Using your body weight and voice are great methods.
You need to probably stop riding horses (if you do) and pretty much just stfu.
Why would you even joke about something like that? It just made you look like a douche bag. =\ it really didn't serve the purpose as a joke, seeing as how jokes make people laugh.
I bet everyone who read it was just slapping their knees like crazy! because it was just so fucking hilarious. God i wish i could joke like you!!!
I really hope you are joking, and fyi, for the reasons stated it would not be safe. The horse will never learn trust the rider, and when something really spooks, the horse will freak out and ignore the rider's commands because why trust the rider since the horse was never given a reason to.
BTW I may ride wp, but my trainer does WP, HS, and Dressage. Abuse has nothing to do with the sport; it has to do with the riders and what they're willing to do to win.
i think you can only use this method if you know what you are doing! i do not approve it all but if it is so terribly wrong how is it possible for anky to have trained over 10horses at grand prix level? she must be doing something good..... I also think that we have very good riders in holland with very different ways of how they train but you have got to admitt that anky is the best so far.
read it forgetting that anky's 'success' comes from her knowledge of horse(there is no sign of it in fact...).
In dressage, and further more in rollkur every movement is achieved by the pain signal (spur, action by one of the bits...)
For the rollkur case - rollkur does GREAT pain- AWFUL pressure of both bits on the jaw, on the palate and the tongue, pain in the unnaturally screwed neck, FLEXED windpipe (which unables the horse to breath normally and ETC!!)..to be continued..
part2... so it's natural for any creature to do ANYthing to avoid pain. So the horse is doing everything so brilliantly just from the first touch ONLY because from the very beginning it was taught to obey by the pain hundred times more strong than by which it is controlled in the end - at the competitions
These are NOT my own theories, but the point and proof made by the best scientists of the world.
The FEI Veterinary Committee made a statement on their position towards the Rollkur, also called "There are no known clinical side effects specifically arising from the use of hyperflexion, however there are serious concerns for a horse's well-being if the technique is not practiced correctly. The FEI condemns hyperflexion in any equestrian sport as an example of mental abuse. The FEI states that it does not support the practice."
lol..........this made me laugh! what are the circles accutally showing?? This is a horse being warmed up, u can see her flexing him to soften him and get him through and listening, why are the legs circled??? lol someone who clearly has not got a clue!
OMG! Wieso macht da denn niemand was oO
peppydevil 11 months ago
These are STILL PHOTOs taken out of context. When you see the video, the horse accept the release of the rein by stretching the rein down and out. I am so tired of hearing unknown, low level riders, criticizing some of the great trainers of this century w/out understanding anything of the different styles and methods.
Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms wtf are you on about
Agilitypoodle385 1 year ago
@Agilitypoodle385 French, German, Russian, Swedish, English, Baroque (i.e. Spain and Portuguese horses)....etc., etc. Each emphasizes different qualities. Russian horses rarely lower their quarters when they do Piaffe. Until this whole Hyperflexion debate started, many of the classical German style trainers were dissing Freisians, Adalusians, and other baroque breeds (where neck must be arched for horse to feel comfortable and balanced)....seems like every few years "styles" change.
Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms So you basically saying Its good :S
Agilitypoodle385 1 year ago
@Agilitypoodle385 "It is not THE system, it is A system"...George Morris. Until it is proven not to work, and unless her horses physically or mentally break down, we should not criticize. Question, maybe. Criticize, no. HATE ANKY ("she should be shot"), start meddling in people's proven training methods, absolutely not. A real Pandora's box, ripe for rule by hypocrisy and ignorance. Try reading Monty Roberts. He explains how different methods can work, and why. LDR worked for my horses.
Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms wat ben jij voor een idioot zeg!
anky is geweldig!!!
ze wil het beste!
kijk maar naar haar klinic laag diep en rond met NELSON!!
en waarom zou ze dan maar liefst 3 GOUDEN MEDAILES hebben/???
duzzz zeg niks waar je GEEN verstand van hebt!
themultihanna 1 year ago
@Agilitypoodle385 JA!!!
O.M.G!!
themultihanna 1 year ago
waarom word er bij rolkur meteen aan akny gedacht?
zijn jullie zo jaloers op haar dat zij heel hoog in de dresuur is?
weetje,jullie krijgen haar er nooit af!
zij heeft meer verstand van paarden dan jullie
SuperLorigirl 1 year ago
Comment removed
ThalyaX 1 year ago
@ThalyaX heey!!
ik ben ook nederlands!
JA,,WIJ NEMEN HET OP VOOR ONZE KONINGIN IN DE DRESSUUR!
haha
nou groetjes!
themultihanna 1 year ago
@SuperLorigirl richtig! iemand die het snapt!
Jalientjee13 1 year ago
wiezo sagt ihr ed immer uber aknky?
Deutschers reiten auch mit rollkur!
Jalientjee13 1 year ago
@Jalientjee13 ja aber sie hat es erfunden
Mausiiiable 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yo creo que la hiperflexión desde mi punto de vista no les puede causar ningún daño si se hace suavemente y en momentos puntuales, es más creo que está muy bien que se hagan ejercicios de flexión y estiramiento antes de cualquier ejercicio en el cual el caballo tenga que llevar los músculos más o menos tensionados durante todo el tiempo que dure la exhibición, de otra manera se contracturarían seguramente y podrían producicirse roturas fibrilares
SweetLoreXX 2 years ago
Comment removed
SweetLoreXX 2 years ago
bei der einstellung wird das pferd doch nie den rücken freigeben. wenns "gut" aussieht heißt es ja nicht das es das auch ist. sowas kann ich garnicht ab -.-
SectumSempraHP527 2 years ago
bäh. wiederlich sowas.
inaccessible14 2 years ago
i took equine anatomy and equine physiology curses back in college and someone brought this up. needless to say i cringed when we discussed it. in my OWN OPINION (i'm not a vet but..), this shouldn't be practiced. its an awkward, unnatural position for the horse. try putting your chin to your sternum and hold it there .. not fun, is it? you shouldn't need to contort your partner in order to win a competition. again .. my opinion.
lilpig85 2 years ago 3
*curses = courses
lilpig85 2 years ago
man kanns auch echt mit der stellung übertreiben...wiederlich so was!!
TheJonnaLove 2 years ago
bah die frau kann ja überhaupt nix geht gar nicht!!!!!
SugarStar15 2 years ago
so too deep...-_- and if i see the related videos you see all those horses are too deep :S
i own 2 horses, they both do it perfectly. the oldest one does it always perfectly, and the youngest (just 5) does it sometimes to deep outof hisself if im stepping out. i dont know why he does that, but if we work he does it perfectly too.
sportscarsfreak 2 years ago
my horse blaze does this natraully he touches his nose to his chest
em352 2 years ago
thats not somthing to brag about lol
horsebackrider420 2 years ago
i wasnt braging i just said he can do it. =l
em352 2 years ago
There's a difference between the horse doing it himself and being forced to hold it there.
citydog 2 years ago 9
i know i was just sayin that he does it himself
em352 2 years ago
Yes, thats it!
Wolfmaedchen 2 years ago
@citydog i agree. i have problems with my tb who unless u practically hold his head on the verticle will just go straight into it. we get his vet checked reguarlly and never has seemed to cause any problems to him.
sk3lt0n 1 year ago
@em352 Well if he is doing that, its not natural.. why would he want to go into such an uncomfortable position when he literally cant see anything but the floor??
Agilitypoodle385 1 year ago
@Agilitypoodle385 he doesnt do it to that extent. only like halfway
em352 1 year ago
@em352 Oh ok thats better.. but all horses wton go past the comfort zone in which they outline properly, only if they are asked too much.. so if he has been going nicely in outline and you have asked him for more.. he will overbend
Agilitypoodle385 1 year ago
really good video!
spferdefan 2 years ago
Man könnte Sie ja eigentlich anzeigen, das Bildmaterial auf you tube müsste für eine deftige Anzeige reichen, nur macht das keiner und ich bin keine Deutsche sondern Italienerin!!!! Kommt Leute, auf in den Kampf, wir wollen Tierquälerei einfach nicht mehr sehen und basta!!!!! Gute Idee nicht???
jackrussel0123 2 years ago
ja müsste man es gibt zwar noch andere wie andreas helgstrand aber anky ist die schlimmste von allen! ich finde es einfach nur schlimm wie sowas bei der olympiade gewinnen kann! ich würde es gerne machen aber dazu müssten wir schon ein paar mehr sein .... lg
MalibuSaufa 2 years ago
Das ist der Ausverkauf der Reitkunst!Das wollen wir nicht sehen!Mit Hyperflexion wird das Pferd erniedrigt und es wird ihm Schmerzen sowie körperl. Schaden zugefügt.
sunrisetarget 2 years ago
It's wrong and it's not beautiful.
horsieylover 3 years ago 11
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i really appreciate anky, but sometimes her riding isn't that great.
rachelladuH 3 years ago
Es wundert mich das es keiner sieht das arme Tier..jetzt mal an die Tierquäler:stellt euch mal vor wir würden so ein gebiss euch in den mundrammen und auf euch setzen und am zügel rumziehen und eben mal so mit der gerte auf euch rumklatschen gefällt euch das?ihr sagt nein stimmts..ja weils wehtut dem tier tuts auch weh das Tier hat auch Gefühle sogar manchmal sensiebler als ihr und die tiere merken es hat keinen sinn sich zu wehren das sie sowieso wieder geschlagen werden
michie12767 3 years ago
when i was taught dressage and as i still train in it today, the strength and guidance of the legs was important not the holding of the hands against the bit. I was taught to give the horse strength through his back in order to carry his neck higher ... not to hold it up there because then the animal hollows out and risks injury. Many times, when my trainer thought I was depending on my hands too much, i would have to ride the whole lesson with my hands behind my back
ArtemisHoney 3 years ago
Ok I haven't actually seen this video but a ton of the things that are circled are not hyperflexion. So many horses are trained to have no strength in their backs and rear legs and then are expected to perfom. it is a proven thing that horses trained in dressage are at much lower risk of arthritis in their future. Dressage originated as a method to make it easier on the horse to carry a rider.
ArtemisHoney 3 years ago
Essentials of the aids and their effects on the horse's body-scheme and movement are marked. The slides have been taken out of the DVD-video-material.
it's not showing where the horse is hyperflexed. it's in part, about what it does to the horse
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
tht doesnt look comfortable for thu horse . . .
queenshowjumper17 3 years ago
hyperflexion is hard to watch. It is bad for your horse. Get book tug of war by vet and understand why it is so bad.
ehl215 3 years ago
i really dont like dressage becase these poor horse have to suffer all this. why dont we se what they want. we should have a lovely comunication through trust and love not hard cold silver bits and ugly shit on there head. give them a break. do cross country for there sake. let them run free and jump.
pecoCoal100 3 years ago
i agree. i will never understand y ppl have 2 use so many bits in 1 mouth. i tried dressage 1ce with my reiner he got really mad about the whole hard contact thing.
Aceyfacey3 3 years ago
Remember though, this is not true dressage. There should NEVER be hard contact. It should always be soft and yielding. There are just as many bad bits in cross country. I'm not a fan of double bridles because they re so often misused, but in correctly trained hands they are fine.
daisyfields 3 years ago
well i should have rephrased that, i ment it didnt like contact on his mouth all the time, hes happy if u just ask 4 his face and then give him a loose rein and leave him alone lol. i like curb bits but ya i agree- this isnt real dressage.
Aceyfacey3 3 years ago
i know youre not looking to start a fight, i know i know i know, btu i do want to give my opinion on this in a friendly spirit. dressage was created to foster and grow the bond between a horse and his rider. dressage helps a horse develop both his physical and mental strength and teaches him that yeah, he can hold himself up properly with a rider on his back. as Jim Wofford said, "Art ends where Violence begins."
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
But not everyone who loves horses wants to do this and compete with the best and some resort to such methods to do so. For that I am glad.
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
umm..i is confused. so youre saying that youre glad that people use methods such as rollkur to get ahead?
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
lol no, rollkur iz a dizguzting perverzion of drezage. what i waz zaying iz that zuch a degredation - az in thiz haz become almozt common practize-of drezage waz bound to happen. thiz iz what humanz do-we literally rape and pillage everything around uz for our own pleazure/comfort. when itz too late we are left paying for yearz of ignorance of our own and generation before uz. zad, but true. you might have to decode the mezzage a bit lol had a fizh tank accident, it burzt and water went every..
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
where including on the laptop and now there are a few button that dont work, im ure you can guez which haha
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
oh, ok!!!
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
in top competitions is no incentive what so ever. But then, I wonder, why don't they just do it at home then? If they do it just for the love of the horses...just enjoy schooling them and training them...such methods as rollkur would never have come about if people weren't so interested in winning and beating everyone else. And I quote Anky "it allows me to get that extra edge, those last two percentage points, on the competitiors." Perhaps I'm reading into it a little too much but it seems..
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
These poor horses are in a nonstop nightmare and their riders simply play to win with no consideration to the comfort of the horse. Welcome to " modern dressage " and it is not normal...
lovesbriardi 3 years ago
This is anything but normal!
Unfortunately the FEI lobby holds her hands over all this...
Booooooh Anky, that you still have the balls to watch yourself in a mirror every morning?!?
LenaPalmier 3 years ago
OK this is normal movement for a dressage horse. Their necks bend like that to get easier movement. I know this is normal. Their legs bend like while moving and considered speed like paffe or lafet. I am a vet if this was a problem i would see it right away.
WolfsRainBabe12 3 years ago
No, it is incorrect. Why do you think they are not ridden like this in a test? The worst part is people actually think this is normal because upper level riders are using this.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Omygoaaad? this is terrible
punterke 3 years ago
dude,i think its rude to.....
1. dicuss a conversation on the cumputer.. i mean u daisyfields..
2. point out all of the mustakes this girl made, not cool...
and third.. there needs to be music!!!
horses4kid 3 years ago
1.What conversation? I don't think comments qualify as conversation.
2.I discussed the effects of rollkur which happen in very horse trained with it, not just one person's horse. Please make sure you know what you're referring to before commenting on it. Someone claimed rollkur was good and I questioned that by providing detrimental effects.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Aren't some of the highest principals of dressage, after all, about the tensionless and even distribution of weight and forces(throughness)?
HiiAmHeidi 3 years ago
The poll should be the highest point to help balance a horse on its hind end, but this working frame takes effort and should of course be balanced with long and low and loose rein. Straightness of the riders body is a very fundamental, critical thing. If nothing else, at least be straight and even.
HiiAmHeidi 3 years ago
Do you really think it`s good to ride in such an cruelty way??!!
ANTIabP 3 years ago
en bisschen musik hätte auch nicht geschadet. aber sonst beeindruckend!
annabell005 3 years ago
lol hasd recht xD
ich versteh nur nicht was uns das mitteilen will ?! ist es nun positiv oder negativ so zu reiten ?? auf jedn fall quälerei !
chrissiliin 3 years ago
necks and moved identically to when their frames where high.When a horse lowers its head and neck endorphins are released that calm.They all purred with contentment!No doubt they enjoyed it!This is not RK but there are striking similarities.RK is not without its faults but to say there is no value in it is ignorance.When we learn what works in it and clearly something does,we might gain a deeper understanding of our classical principles and our horses will ultimately benefit.Not a RK promotion!
JSTS08 3 years ago
I agree with your idea, but here's my question. Did the horse's hold that position for extended periods of time without breaks? I would have to disagree that it is ignorance, rollkur is rollkur. May a few seconds of slight hyperflexion help a stiff horse soften the poll, quite probably. It's not something I would use, but since that slight use of it on rare occasions won't have degenerating effects it's fine, not when horse are pulled and spurred into this for every session for long periods.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Daisy,Why would you accuse me of being a fraud?I stand behind everything in that website.I never said I was for rollkur!I never said it was great because anky won using it!I certainly never promoted it. Your a pathetic dishonest debater!If your gonna quote me, read it first!Let me enlighten your narrow mind. No, the horses in the pasture did not do RK, but they did often times become over round and they all drop their heads to the gound without going on the forehand.The came extra deep in their
JSTS08 3 years ago
And I quote "How about you explain how Anky, Nicole, and Isabell have or had so much success with this technique if it is so bad." You are defending it, and yet say you stand for classical priciples and learning from the horse, that's what I don't get. Rollkur and classical do not go together; you cannot be a classical rider if you think rollkur is fine. Did the horses hold it there for more than five minutes, even more than just a minute? No response to the scientific comments I see.
daisyfields 3 years ago
How am I being dishonest, because I have a reasonable question you don't like? Also, take into account those horses had no weight on ther back their to carry and hold up, so they are not going to fall onto the forehand flinging their head back for a few seconds, probably even wouldn't with a rider, but rollkur is not a few seconds, it's the entire training sessions and therein lies the problem with it.
daisyfields 3 years ago
It's shit!
Mona0392 3 years ago
In rollkur the purpose is to ride the horse extra deep.Deepness can "never" be created by pulling a horses head down and in as it can only be created through relaxation! But to the "uneducated" eye it may seem that way. Just as in Classical Dressage the horse is asked to move from the HQ forward over the back, shoulder and through the neck.The difference being the RK horse is asked/allowed to lower the poll(a commonly accepted relaxation tool).The deeper the rider asks the rounder the back&neck.
JSTS08 3 years ago
Wow, after looking at your website how can you possible be for rollkur. It's all about harmony with the classical principles. FYI rollkur goes against every classical principle and is in no way classical. You talk about watching horse's in pasture showing the correct way; were they ever in rollkur? Can you say fraud; you promote classicl principles and then go around talking about how great rollkur must be because Anky wins with it. Classical riding is not about winning; it's about the horse.
daisyfields 3 years ago
You claim the purpose to rollkur is to hold the horses head down and in.Daisy you do not know what you are talking about and thats a fact.You don't like rollkur for the same reasons other people dont like it.Because you know nothing about it and "videos" like this which are edited to make it look as bad as possible.How can we the public make an informed decision without seeing both sides to it and there are always 2 sides to a story and the fact of the matter is you do not know the other side.
JSTS08 3 years ago
That is how its practiced. People claim the purpose is to stretch to neck. Please, feel free to inform exactly what its purpose is and how you practice that. There are plenty of unedited videos on here that show exactly what it is.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Daisy, you claimed that rollkur was bad for horses and tried to outline what you thought was incorrect movement. The FEI issued and official statement that says quite the opposite!! Your strongest argument is that anky's horse doesn't sit into the piaffe. Finding a fault in a grand prix ride doesn't not indicate abuse as you claim. All riders and horses have strengths and weaknesses.Why are you pretending to know what you are talking about. Need more proof?
JSTS08 3 years ago
Actually the FEI vets issued a statement condemning it as mental abuse. Your only argument for it is that Anky wins so it must be good. Rollkur puts the horse's back in such a position that the lumbar spine locks, and as result the abdominal muscles have to contract much more than normal making the horse tense. The jerky movement and flashy front leg movement comes from the fact that so much weight is beared by the front legs.
daisyfields 3 years ago
In the neck the nuchal ligament is stretched while the neck muscles are compressed, causing bony reinforcements at the attachment and constant pain. The underside of the neck overdevelops the incorrect muscles as these are not meant to hold the head in like that for extended periods of time. The horse cannot see in front of it in this position. The windpipe is compressed making it difficult to breathe.
daisyfields 3 years ago
I could go on. Wat exactly is it that makes you think this is such a beneficial and good method.?
daisyfields 3 years ago
your a genius! Those stupid judges and doesn't Anky know that all horses that aren't trained in Rollkur have perfect piaffes!! It's that simple huh? Do you even know how rollkur is ridden? Do you have any clue as to why someone might want to use the technique? And I cant' find a video on Rollkur just ones like this..slide shows. Why slide shows? Video is a much more effective tool!!
JSTS08 3 years ago
No, not all horses will have perfect piaffes, but I have never seen a horse trained in rollkur sit into their piaffe and engage. Yes, I know how rollkur is ridden and the reasons as to why someone would want to use it. If you can't find a single video of rollkur on here, all I can say is wow. I can't even count the number of them there's so many.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Als je het zelf zo goed kan waarom doe jij het dan niet?
xVanitygirl22 3 years ago
I think an honest debate on any topic is healthy and necessary and inevitably beneficial to rider and horse. Slander and misleading propoganda just divide. If Anky rode the way this slide show made it look there would be no possible way she would win. Portraying this as ripping on a horses mouth is a pathetic attempt at protesting rollkur.Show the good with the bad. Pick your favorite rider and lets take snapshots of their worst moments and accuse them of abuse!
JSTS08 3 years ago
There are plenty of videos on here of people riding like this. They are not just snapshots in time.
daisyfields 3 years ago
daisy, I am an expert in horse mechanics nobody knows horse locomotion like I do..and you miss the point..She wins because her horse moves correctly!! That is what dressage is all about!! You can't simply claim she doesn't because you don't like the way she gets it. And I can respect that but credit where credits due. Surely your not suggesting the judges don't know correct movement.
JSTS08 3 years ago
Have you seen Saliero's piaffe? I have never seen that horse sit into it.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Please Guys... Get an life!
If you all know that well.. Why don't you winn the olimpics?
You have no idea what horse abuse is.. Ever watch Animal Planet?
tjittjat0debbie 3 years ago
first of all...dressage is my life..second of all..I have every intention on competeing in the olympics. Roughly 3 years ago I purchased a horse to train and sell. In short she was being dumped because she was abused to the point of her brain being fried. She is the toughest horse I have ever worked with and I specialize in problem horses. Before and after video coming soon. I will never sell her.
JSTS08 3 years ago
Well , She's hurting the horse in his mouth , His nek is to deep
jonelikker 3 years ago
no the "in" thing is to bag on rollkur as if it compares to the obvious abuses that you outlined. Those techniques could never develop in the quality of work that you see Anky, Isabelle and Nicole get. Because pain, discomfort and force do not equal relaxation, suppleness and obedience. You clearly have no idea how difficult it is to acheive these qualities which is to say no discipline is as difficult as dressage. Read the FEI manual and learn.
JSTS08 3 years ago
I've hated rollkur since I learned about. So many people express their dislike of it nowadays because it is more well-known. The problem is they don't have that quality of work. The horse's rythym is lost, the hindlegs trail out behind, and the horse's move with quick and jerky movements. Anyone who doesn't like rollkur has no idea how difficult it is and needs to learn, that's a new line. That's about the only defense people ever come up with. You read it, because this goes against it.
daisyfields 3 years ago
These ladys would not win if their horses did not display the correct qualities!!As described in the FEI manual!!Thats a fact!!This is where the controversy lies.You may not like the way they get it but you cannot deny that they do..this is evidence to your level of education.However, the lack of qualities as you describe would be evident of people attempting the technique without guidance but the same can be said for poorly ridden "classical" techniques. You have just been schooled!!
JSTS08 3 years ago
Yes, poor riding in any case is bad, but rollkur is never good. Please, tell me exactly how it is beneficial to the horse. Look at the videos on here and you will see the jerky, unrythmic movement because the horse's back is locked up they have to jerk their feet up quickly to even support the weight. In the canter the moment of suspension isn't even there because there is so much stress of the forehand. Been schooled? Lol. I think someone needs to take an equine anatomy and physiology class.
daisyfields 3 years ago
I'm not looking to start an argument but I'm surious to know just how much you know about hyperflexion? Do you practise it regulary? etc...
Also can you explain to me why you think that a horse that, for an almost an entire test is behind the vertical and yet still will win? When FEI rules state the poll should be the highest point and the face on or above the vertical?
How is it horses that actually display opposite traits, you could say, of FEI descriptions of what is correct, win?
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
i wonder that myself. my theory is that it has more to do w/ populatrity than actual riding skill. look at these past Olympics. Satchmo misbehaved twice, and Isabel still got the silver. (i know shes a damn good rider; i just dont think she should have scored THAT high. top 5 definetly.) its sad the way modern dressage is going. i think it was Charles de Knuffy who said "Competitive riding should be classical riding at its best."
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
I read that Jim Wofford article as well, it was quite interesting. In the use of the flash nose band as a gadget-though it is not designed as one, it can certainly be used as one. I know what dressage was supposed to do, but I don't think it does that any more. It's all show now. Mind you, I suppose it had to change. Horses lost their purpose when machinery took over and now it is simply sport. And like all sport it is, to a certain extent, corrupt.
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
i dont really have a problem w/ flash nosebands, when used CORRECTLY and with CORRECT riding. the problem comes when ppl abuse it. its sad to see what dressage is becoming. i think that weve gotten the mentality of " i can do whatever i want and i wont be punished, instead, i get money and blue ribbons". *shrugs* i honestly dont think its going to change any time soon. specially now that its more widely publized, what w/ magazines and the internet
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
Flash nose bands are a bit like spurs. They're fine when fitted correctly and used correctly. The Jim Wofford article was nattering on about flash nose bands when not used correctly, as a band aid instead, to jam the horse mouth shut when he resists the bit because his training has never taught or allowed him to accept it. But yeah, dressage is not likely to change any time soon. People say that "top" riders do it for the horse, because they love it, that the huge pools of money offered..
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
she is bascially saying it's all about her winning. She wants to win for a reason. I'm sure the money is one of those. She, and the rest, wouldn't be who they are without all that money...ahhh money makes the world go round. To the detriment of our horses.
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
yeah, thats pretty much it. way back when, ppl rode to improve themselves and their horses. sure, a few of them might have gotten a little too winning-oriented and realized their mistake. but now its ALL about winning comps, having a big horse w/ big gaits, and moving up as fast as possible. and training methods, such as hyperflexion, come about and stay b/c judges nowadays are either a) too slow to recognize when a horse is BTV, or b) just doesnt care.
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
It's about how much money you've got so you can buy the "best" horse and afford the "best" training so you can win the "best" competitions ;)
There have been countless people here purchase very expensive horses from europe and import them (a lot from Kasslemann *puke!!*), ride trying to imitate these methods, win the first few competitions and next season, or even at the end of the first one, they're no where to be seen. Either the horse wouldn't tolerate the training in question and mostly..
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
so many like them...with the horses nose practically touching the chest. Slightly behind the bit is just that-or over flexion, whether by mistake or not. "Severe" hyperflexion is what these riders practise. And how they practise it, too. Grrrr!
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
female NZ riders, used to riding sensitive, intelligent TB's find they cannot handle these big, powerful frieght train warmbloods when they want to throw a tanty or the horse goes lame. Consequently he is sold on or if the issue is mostly in training, sent back to the land "from whence he came." Strange, but true. Also for those who argue that they hyperflexion is ANYTHING behind the bit...well, I'm sorry man, but it's not. Hyperflexion is that which is so clearly displayed in these videos and..
thecrazydolls 2 years ago
actually, hyper = more than, and flexion = bending. so basically its over-bending the horse, most noticeably at the neck. you see it alllll the time in competion.
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
that was a response to marfikus fyi
JSTS08 3 years ago
If I watched this without knowing who it was I think I would also say that it's wrong, but I know she's better than anyone in here
These pictures are taken out of a video, so how can you judge it?
Everytime he is going down with his head, you made a picture?
Young horses do it al the time when they're searching your hand.
really, stop telling she's abusing horses, or a worse rider, because she isn't.
first look around you, at your own city, you will find the worst riders all over the world!
Jaybabeey 3 years ago 3
This is called rollkur, her training method. It is not out of context; there are plenty of videos. The purpose is to hold the horse's head down and in.
daisyfields 3 years ago
It is important to remember that horses tell the ultimate story and Anky's horses do not tell a story of abuse infact quite the opposite.IF your "eye" is any good you can see the horses are relaxed and free from tension and other than poll position have every quality described in the FEI manual. With her success there is clearly something she is doing right and should be respected if if not understood.Americans need to learn to respect each other and learn humility. If you can do better show us.
JSTS08 3 years ago 5
Hahahahaha, sorry, but if you really believe what you just wrote here, you know nothing
Marfikus 3 years ago
i bet that person knows more than you!! stop being so harsh.
alaskangirl1993 3 years ago 5
I can assure you, after your breif comment, that I know much more than you. Put your hate aside and debate like a grown up. How about you explain how Anky, Nicole, and Isabell have or had so much success with this technique if it is so bad. If it produces such results that educated judges around the world reward it readily should we not learn from it. Something in it works and we would all do better to understand that.
JSTS08 3 years ago
Soring used to win in saddleseat, heck horses still wear chains and big padded/weighted shoes to win, but that sure isn't good for them. Western pleasure horses with tails held down with fish weights and having heads tied up all night win, but it isn't good for them. The only thing to learn from this is how far human egos and greed will go. Nothing about this method is good for the horse, or rider for that matter, but it's the "in" thing to do so people follow.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Animal cruelity happens in all forms. Wonder how she would feel if someone hauled her head into a tucked position while pulling her leg back to her shoulderblades. Is this woman uneducated or just don't care??? Both appearantly.
crazynewf1973 3 years ago
If you think i'm not educated enough understanding horses, why on gods earth do i have lesson/clinics with Sue Hill who competed at Badminton Horse Trials and trained by David Hunt? also why do i have lessons with Spencer Wilton (to you reigning British Dressage Championships) partners with Carl Hester!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fallding123 3 years ago 3
So I guess you just don't care. Thanks for clearing that up.
crazynewf1973 3 years ago
There is nothing wrong with this method at all!! Germans and top Scientists have examined the method and found there was no problem or damage to any of the horses, even Bonfire was used in the experiment 10yrs of competing him and training him this method. If you really care about animals go and protest the slaughter and animal cruelty first bfore buttering a great horse person you will ever see on this planet!! just admit your jealous!!!!
fallding123 3 years ago 2
Circles and Lines don't meen anything.!!! Anky knows how to use this method in good faith. REMEMBER EVERYONE NICOLE UPHOFF STARTED ROLLKUR BEFORE ANYONE RIDING REMEBRANDT SO STOP YOU ARSEHOLE CRITICS SAYING ANKY IS ABUSIVE BECAUSE SHE ISN'T!! Any of her horses have been out of Competition because of Injury? NO NO NO!!!!
fallding123 3 years ago 2
IT is abusive. To see it otherwise you are not educated well enough to see that it is. How can forcing an animal to do such a thing, anything other than abusive.
crazynewf1973 3 years ago
And people think performance (apha and aqha) western and english horses are abused, look at how unnatural this is! this COULD hurt a horse, unlike western and english pleasure, and there movements are soooo unnatural, what kind of horse really springs in the air like that all of the time just because it can? not a normal one, maybe if a stud or in heat, or excited, but not for no reason.
rylee003 3 years ago
Ik vind dat dit sterk overdreven wordt.
Waarom ? Het is niet verkeerd je paard eens
wat dieper te rijden dan normaal, het is goed
dat er variatie inzit, bij voorwaarts-neerwaarts bijvoorbeeld word het paard ook wat ruimer en dieper gereden da normaal om zijn rug te laten ontspannen enzo. Anky zal
echt niet dingen gaan doen die niet goed zijn voor haar paarden hoor. En dan zou haar paard trouwens verzet tonen, wat niet het geval is, want hij ziet er heel ontspannen uit !
HappyxHeleen 3 years ago 2
Anky is a great rider however she over uses and abuses the task of training a horse to go long and low (which yes they can go behind the vertical while lowering the neck as it changes the center of balance) BUT this takes it to an extreme that isnt correct.
LestatMonCopain 3 years ago
als anky echt zo slecht is zou ze geen GOUD op de olypische spelen van dit jaar hebben gehaald vandaag! met nogal 82,400% dus ik zou maar nisk zeggen als ik jou was. haha bok.
xChaa 3 years ago
Each minute a horse is ridden like this is damaging its body AND its mind. THIS IS SCHOCKING!!!!! Muscles and movement qualities can be developed in a better way. These horses are tense and their body is hurting.
ulrikethiel 3 years ago
That's what 'you're saying' mostly the horses do it theirselves
Alishondra 3 years ago
If so then why are there no videos of a horse running around like this at liberty?
daisyfields 3 years ago
that utter BS. study up, or mabye just use your eyes. notice the riders hand position, well shes holding the horses head there! with a double bridle you dont have to apply much pressure to inflict pain on the mouth.
sammie123321 3 years ago
zo als mijn voorganger al zegt
maar schijnbaar zijn de mensen die hier op reageren niet echt op een bepaald nivo bezich
maar is dit niet echt bepaald schokkend
( spierontwikkeling en en leningheid moet ergens vandaan kommen ) daar naast rij je je paard niet een uur lang zo 7 dagen pern week
en kunne we ook gaan beginne over de mensen die hun paarden lekker op de voor hand rijden
die vervolgens door het zelf niet kunne rijden naar de slacht kunne wegens hoefcatrol
pascaldopmeijer 3 years ago
Ik zag dat je NL bent, dus;
ik zou zeggen, verbeter de wereld begin bij jezelf. Als Anky echt zo slecht rijd als jij zegt zou ze niet zo hoog in de sport rijden, de puntjes die jij geeft zijn enkel alleen moment opnames, en ik denk dat Anky zat ervaring & ervaren mensen om zich heen heeft dat ze weet waarmee ze bezig is! Dus ik vind dit filmpje een beetje onzin eerlijk gezegt.
CathyxGuido 3 years ago
the horse i ride has his head like that, sorta over-flexed. But when i give him all his rein, he still has his head like that.
belly723 3 years ago
Then it probably tries to avoid the bid or your hand!
Twinkle2001 3 years ago
Not always. My green bean is being ridden by a trainer who has very light hands, and is being ridden in a Myler Mbo2, and still curls. HE isn't evading, he just has a natural tendency to curl. It is quite common actually, and with further correct training, it will cease!
kildaltonspirit 3 years ago
Regardless of the issue here, comparing any position of the horse to any position of a person is completely ridiculous. Horses and humans are built completely differently, so tucking your chin to your chest is in no way equivalent to a horse tucking his chin to his chest. Whatever discomfort, pain, restriction of airways, etc., is not the same as what a horse who is overflexed would feel. Therefore, this is an invalid argument and not a good way to address this method, however you feel about it.
captainzebra 3 years ago
niceeeeeeee vidddd check mine out on meetyourfling(.Com)
bender
03020154
boozy5646 3 years ago
I don't like it at all. It looks horrid and the horse is over flexed. Why train it then ride DIFFERENTLY in a test. No, I'm completely against it, I wouldn't be surprised that if in the future that was is lame or crippled...We'll see.
RockieEdward 3 years ago
My horse have allways fun in his wurk, this horse really NOT!
SanjesManege 3 years ago
einfach nur traurig!und sowas wird auf tunieren noch zugelassen sehen die das denn nicht??verstehe das einfach nicht!!kann nur sagen die armen pferde was die alles durchmachen müssen!
moishoney 3 years ago
I just don't understand a lot of what people do. I ride Dressage and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and training methods. And yes any riding in any form by bad hands can cause pain to their horses. what I don't understand with hyperflexion/Rollkur is how it helps (according to those who use it) because to me it looks very unnatural and you wouldn't ride like that in a test.
myloveforhorses 3 years ago
If I had to relate it to people, it would almost be like stretching my neck up as much as possible but pulling my chin in and just holding it there...I can't relax like that at all. Then again I am sure it works for some horses and not for others also. Does anyone know the supposed purpose of using hyperflexion/?
myloveforhorses 3 years ago
My posts were posted backwards..read bottom one first so they make sense lol :)
myloveforhorses 3 years ago
wie kann man wirklich sooo blöd zum reiten sein.oooaaah sie kann einfach nicht reiten die soll runter vom pferd
78x88 3 years ago
That is the best method to ride a horse!
In this position it can't do anything, so the rider is save. The horse must do what you want, if pain or not is not really important. When the horse bites in its chest it is best, because then you are the boss. Never mind about the horses feelings, it only matters that the rider feels good and save and the horse look good and do anything you want.
Matzettatze 3 years ago
FYI, it's spelt "safe".
BlueChild86 3 years ago
hm?
what do you mean?
Matzettatze 3 years ago
Your kept writing "save" where the world "safe" should be.
Example:
"In this position it can't do anything, so the rider is save."
Should be safe instead of save.
BlueChild86 3 years ago
word*
BlueChild86 3 years ago
uh, sorry, sometimes I make mistakes.
That's because I'm from Austria^^
Matzettatze 3 years ago
So? i know plenty of intelligent Australians. You, are not one of them.
How can a rider be "safe" when the horse is in pain? Thats not the way to ride. You ride whats best for your horse, and you. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, because you do not need to inflict pain on the horse in order to have control. Using your body weight and voice are great methods.
You need to probably stop riding horses (if you do) and pretty much just stfu.
rachmeister6 3 years ago
NOT AUSTRALIA, AUSTRIA!
The little State in the middle of Europe without kangaroos.
And I was Joking!
That was ironic!
I never would ride a horse in rollkur, thats senseless cruetly.
You can take a look at my Vids, then you would see that I'm not riding with rollkur.
Ist es wirklich so schwer Österreich von Australien zu unterscheiden?
muss wohl wieder mein "No kangaroos in Austria" T-shirt rausholen -.-
Matzettatze 3 years ago
Why would you even joke about something like that? It just made you look like a douche bag. =\ it really didn't serve the purpose as a joke, seeing as how jokes make people laugh.
I bet everyone who read it was just slapping their knees like crazy! because it was just so fucking hilarious. God i wish i could joke like you!!!
rachmeister6 3 years ago
FYI: Austria is not a state. Its a country.
rachmeister6 3 years ago
Ok um are you serious?
eventr011 3 years ago
I really hope you are joking, and fyi, for the reasons stated it would not be safe. The horse will never learn trust the rider, and when something really spooks, the horse will freak out and ignore the rider's commands because why trust the rider since the horse was never given a reason to.
daisyfields 3 years ago
of course I'm joking^^
I never would ride a horse in Rollkur^^
Matzettatze 3 years ago
BTW I may ride wp, but my trainer does WP, HS, and Dressage. Abuse has nothing to do with the sport; it has to do with the riders and what they're willing to do to win.
AlliWalker 3 years ago
I have read in a lot horsemagazines that it not really a good method to use!
Meeeeims 3 years ago
i think you can only use this method if you know what you are doing! i do not approve it all but if it is so terribly wrong how is it possible for anky to have trained over 10horses at grand prix level? she must be doing something good..... I also think that we have very good riders in holland with very different ways of how they train but you have got to admitt that anky is the best so far.
4polders1 3 years ago
read it forgetting that anky's 'success' comes from her knowledge of horse(there is no sign of it in fact...).
In dressage, and further more in rollkur every movement is achieved by the pain signal (spur, action by one of the bits...)
For the rollkur case - rollkur does GREAT pain- AWFUL pressure of both bits on the jaw, on the palate and the tongue, pain in the unnaturally screwed neck, FLEXED windpipe (which unables the horse to breath normally and ETC!!)..to be continued..
fleur4198 3 years ago
part2... so it's natural for any creature to do ANYthing to avoid pain. So the horse is doing everything so brilliantly just from the first touch ONLY because from the very beginning it was taught to obey by the pain hundred times more strong than by which it is controlled in the end - at the competitions
These are NOT my own theories, but the point and proof made by the best scientists of the world.
fleur4198 3 years ago
Cite your sources. What are the journal articles or books written by these "Best Scientists of the World", I'd like to read them.
captainzebra 3 years ago
The FEI Veterinary Committee made a statement on their position towards the Rollkur, also called "There are no known clinical side effects specifically arising from the use of hyperflexion, however there are serious concerns for a horse's well-being if the technique is not practiced correctly. The FEI condemns hyperflexion in any equestrian sport as an example of mental abuse. The FEI states that it does not support the practice."
ulrikethiel 3 years ago
ummmmm im not to into dresage... so im a little confused on whats going on here. what are rullkurs and whats with all the circles on the horse??
don't get me wrong.. it's not that i don't like dressage i just haven't really gone in that direction with my riding
thanks
XxJakexAlyssaxX 3 years ago
First of all - this doesn't look like Anky!
I was on a clinic with Anky.. she only use rollkur for a few seconds. There is much other things in the horse-world that is worse then this.
Kristinebest 3 years ago
what are rollkurs? are they on full bridles?
GraceDanielConway 3 years ago
This is Anky and I have more than 10 hours video material which proves that she uses Rollkur for more than 40 minutes.
ulrikethiel 3 years ago
First of all - this doesn't look like Anky!
I was on a clinic with Anky.. she only use rollkur for a few seconds. There is much other things in the horse-world that is worse then this.
Kristinebest 3 years ago
of course its anky.
this video was me in sydney
lllllooooolllllloooo 3 years ago
lol..........this made me laugh! what are the circles accutally showing?? This is a horse being warmed up, u can see her flexing him to soften him and get him through and listening, why are the legs circled??? lol someone who clearly has not got a clue!
charlottedouglass 3 years ago
This can't be Anky! She isn't the percon on the horse. If you askes me
Fien1994 3 years ago
so many "mistakes" . it's sad to see haw people ride their horses just for trainning. this is not working, it's just making the horse running. . .
i hope you understand what i mean . . .my english is bad
=)
gregfun01 3 years ago
if you were REAL horse people you would understand what is wrong.
Dotsygrl123 3 years ago
this is not anky
AutoExitt 3 years ago