@braillegraffiti And further I get the feeling you just want to be noticed, to have some attention even if it is negative. I raised 4 children and am familiar with the ploy. Just know this, there is a God in heaven who marks your every word and deed. The day is coming when you will give an account, as we all must, before him. Only one plea will avail, Jesus died for me and I trust him as my Saviour. You may mock men who are in every way your betters but be not deceived God is not mocked.
I think the arrogance that a lot of you demonstrate is equally matched by the Pharisees. Other than the fact that they rejected your Jesus, they would have made good company for you, since you are all loud mouthed and opinionated, and even if the son of God stood before you, you wouldn't see him, since you've already made up your minds about EVERYTHING!
I also find it very amusing that MOST of you didn't even watch my responses. This video has 142 views, as of now, while my three responses have around 48 COMBINED!
"It's because you're stupid and we already know you're wrong."
I can read your minds, and there isn't much going on up there.
@edwardpf123 If I'm "wasting" your time, GO DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE, instead of telling me how I'm wasting your time! Why can't you people make up your minds what it is that you want to be doing? Again, Nietszche was right! Clueless!
@brailleGraffiti -He has given up because of your inability to grasp reality and objective truth.
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filtiness. There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
@edwardpf123 Well then he is just as silly and clueless as you. But wait? Why are you still here? I thought I was a waste of your time! MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
@edwardpf123 All your degrees, as these are the best arguments you have? A few flimsy verses, and some name calling? What college did you go to? I want to make sure that my children never go there!
I have ONE father, and all of you combined do not make HALF the man that he is, nor equal his brainpower, so if you have ANY sense at all, you will listen, instead of shooting your mouths off LIKE SPOILED CHILDREN.
You seem to think that calling me "boy" and "young" are insults, which ONLY reflect your own raging arrogance. And then you wonder why "this generation" rebels and doesn't listen to you. You treats us like caged animals, and when you set us free, we bite and you wonder why. Well now you've been TOLD.
It seems the boy is rather full of himself. BG's lack of humility is evidence of a fertile mind and an unconverted heart, a condition that is rampant among the aca demia ru les crowd. It's telling that his utube name associates him with the blind, I wonder if that was freudian slip. No one 'learns' to be a Christian, the new birth is not an intellectual process it's a spiritual event. Prov1611 has graciously and effectively dealt with a young man who needs to be born again. Jesus saves sinners.
@mwilson70201 All of you seem to think that you age ENTITLES you to something that you have NOT earned, namely, my respect. You will get it when you learn to treat me as a human being and an equal. You may treat your children as inferior OBJECTS that you can boss around, as is evident by all of your attitudes that children are inherently selfish, but I am NOT your child, and you WILL respect me, or this conversation will NOT continue.
@brailleGraffiti I'm not interested in getting involved in your squabble I just wanted to say something that might be beneficial in the future. Respect is not gained by demanding it. Respect is commanded by a man's demeanor, strength and carraige. It's also usually a reciprocal thing. You have inserted yourself into this matter for whatever reason and now aren't happy that others find you annoying rather than articulate. Perhaps if you weren't so childish you wouldn't be treated like one.
What's really sad is that you think you know logic and reason, and you haven't a clue. Can you explain Godel's theorem to me? I think not. Do you even know who Kurt Godel is? I think not. You've wasted your life on this ideal, which you never even touched.
You're just old and scared, and I feel sorry for you. When was the last time you laughed? Woke up happy, with a warm feeling in your chest? When was the last time you danced? Or has life just been an endless treadmill of misery? Is that why you're so fixated on hell, and the so called negative aspects of humanity?
@brailleGraffiti Hey little boy...anyone who has watched and read some of the exchanges between the two of you can see you are an idiot. Not only did you get your tail whipped on every issue, but I would bet this guy you're calling an old man could whip your effeminate litte hide as well. You are a disrespectful little brat. Shut your mouth
@smashmouth1001 So how many hides did Jesus "whip"? When did the Apostles go around flexing their masculinity? Nietszche is right, you people REALLY can't count to three.
Animals also engage in homosexuality, do you run up to monkeys and beat them over the head with your Bible because they touch each other "inappropriately"?
When an animal kills another animal for food, is that bad? When two wolves fight over a bone, is that bad? Or maybe, like children, they just do their own thing, and people like you come along and make them feel bad for doing these things, which are ONLY part of their nature.
I put all three of your responses in, but only two show untill you click "see all" I did a short response to your 3 minute one. I am also going to upload a response to the comments you have posted. Yes, another long one, as you seem to have the penchant for opening one Pandora's box after another--in typical College fashion. There are no sound-bite answers to the things you say. Sorry I don't chop up the video. Just watch it piecemeal.
@Providential1611 There are actually four videos, so you may want to check your inbox again. If you don't see it, let me know. I'll post it again. I may not get around to commenting on your new responses as quickly as your first.
@brailleGraffiti That is FINE. I prefer you take your time. I am not as interested in your quick responses as I am in thoughtful ones. No hurry friend. I'll look for the other. Also, I am posting the response video to your comments thus far as a response to this cideo here. I have to approve my own response!
@Providential1611 The fourth video is actually VERY important, as it gets more to the heart of the matter of why I'm offended by Baucham's video, and I'm also not as antagonistic as the other videos. There is a lot more to me than pompousness and arrogance that you perceive (even though I am responsible for this view, since I have been deliberately trying to manipulate people's emotions).
@brailleGraffiti I only watched the first one. I will watch the other three later. I have work to do. It is fun and enjoyable for me to try to minister to people via Youtube, but even video takes time--not as long as writing long responses, but if I had an assistant who could edit the videos and upload--well that would be helpful. God bless
Please remember that you have to approve my videos before they appear, as I had to approve yours. You will have to do this by going to your inbox, and clicking on the message that correspond to my videos, and then pressing the "approve" button.
I'm uploading that video now. Perhaps you will be annoyed at the fact that I have broken my response into so many videos, but I was rather annoyed that you made your's so long. It's very hard to listen and comprehend 45 minutes something so dense as religion and philosophy. There is STILL a lot more that I could say, but I'm going to let you soak in what I've said and make some responses of your own, if you are up for it.
"They're not sincerely, they're challenges!" And YOU know what is going on in their head? Another mistake of confusing abstraction with reality! You know nothing about logic or reason, only shadows of reflections which you don't even understand. Though you believe you do, and thats a little scary.
You've spoken to many people LIKE me, but have you ever spoken to ME before? You mistake the abstraction for the reality, a common error in this age, especially amongst Christians like yourself.
"The premises are the very issues that are to be debated, not granted". That might be the smartest thing you've said, but I don't think you fully grasp what it means.
I'm showing you another way to look at an issue, but your eyes are blind and your ears are plugged. And again, have you ever set foot on a college campus in this decade? The more I listen to you, the more I think the answer is no. Again, step aside, you don't know anything.
"You're not giving reasons, you're just stating what you think, and you mischaracterize...". Hmm that sounds familiar? Who would do such a thing? Oh thats right VODDIE BAUCHAM! If you can catch on to my game, why can't you catch on to his? It's because me views just aren't in line with yours. You don't get, and you may never get it.
I suggest you read the Fixation of Belief by Charles Sanders Peirce, who was one of the greatest American logicians to ever live. Maybe that will give you some clarity as to the respective roles of science, religion, and philosophy, since you clearly have none. I'm not even sure you know the difference or what those words actually mean at times during you video.
@Providential1611 Philosophy is largely assertion, and you have an EXTREMELY misguided view of it if you think that everything is always mathematical and rigorous. Not that A SINGLE ONE of your arguments even exerted trivial comprehension of mathematics or the predicate calculus. You probably don't even know what those things are, another reason why you should step aside. You are too old and fixed in you ways. But like I said, it is never too late to change.
@Providential1611 You may be older than me, and I may be very young, but you have A LOT of learning ahead of you my friend, and not much time left in this life to get it done. You better start cramming, it's not too late.
@Providential1611 I would like to know when was the last time you set foot in a college classroom? "Anti-Christian bigots always attacking Christianity"? HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Did you read it in one of your Christian apologetic books? YOU KNOW NOTHING OF WHAT GOES IN UNIVERSITIES IN THIS DAY AND AGE. STOP PRETENDING.
And you're comment about China is HILARIOUS! You think that if the Chinese were exposed to Christianity, then they would just convert en masse! LOL. You don't get out much do you? The Chinese actually have very sophisticated and elegant moral systems that you obviously have no appreciation or understanding of. Try reading up on Daoism and Confucianism. These faiths existed for THOUSANDS of years before Christianity, and will continue to exist regardless Christianity or the Chinese government.
I'm in the process of uploading a third video. Again, you must go to your inbox to approve this video, which I believe can be accessed at the top right of this page.
I'm awake again. I made a second video. Both require your approval: you will need to go into your inbox and click the message that corresponds to my videos. I have done this with yours, and you will notice that it is now visible in my video.
On a side not, I would hope that in your next video, you will do me the favor of NOT repeatedly telling me how young and immature I am, lest I have to remind you how old and jaded you are.
@brailleGraffiti -Calling you young is not an insult, it is simply a reminder that wisdom and learning takes time, it cannot be rushed. But you do need to learn what the view you are being critical of actually teaches. As for questions, here is even more important then why is there suffering,
'but man dieth, and wasteth away: ye, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he' (Job.11:10)-
@edwardpf123 I am aware of this, but your age, and the age of Povidential1611, confers advantage because you have had more time to learn. But DO NOT underestimate me. The rates at which people learn are different, and I may very well be smarter than most people who are twice my age.
@brailleGraffiti -Yes that is true, a young person can be wiser then an older one if he grasps the truths of God, as in the case of the Book of Job, where Elihu was wiser than the 3 elders who criticized Job. (Job.35)
In most cases however, age usually has the advantage of both experience and mediation on the subject.
@edwardpf123 That's you opinion, which I can respect. I understand that you believe that the path to wisdom and virtue is through the Bible, and I will have you know that I have no abandoned this route. However, I believe that there are other paths, and all that I ask of you is that you consider them.
Age does confer advantage in most cases, that is correct. But we must treat each case as a new case, and not pre-determine the results in our heads before anything has actually happened.
@edwardpf123 I have learned a lot about Chrisianity, through my own private studies and through my experience growing up in a predominantly Christian family. What experience do have with philosophy? And philosophy doesn't answer ANY questions. That's not the point of philosophy! YOU clearly don't know anything about the world view you are rejecting. One doesn't study philosophy to find answers, one studies it to find out what questions are possible.
@brailleGraffiti I gave you two questions that philosophy has no answer to and that is why it is unable to satisfy man. It is clear whatever form of Christianity you experienced, you didn't learn the arguments that dealt with Adam's sin and the imputation of sin to the human race. This was fought out between two rival schools, Pelegius and Augustine in the 5th century. As for philosophy, one does study it for answers, not just to find questions, see Aristotle.
@edwardpf123 Aristotle is NOT the authoritative philosopher. He was actually wrong about just about everything that he theorized (other than philosophy, which can never really be wrong). In all of human history, philosophy has not provided a concrete, undisputed answer for anything, and any time you accept one philosophy, you merely become a dogmatist. The point of studying philosophy, at least in my opinion, is that it opens your mind to as many different perspective as possible.
@brailleGraffiti -Aristotle was the father of logic, and the point was is goal was to develop a philosophy that had anwers, not simply asked questions. The point of studying philosophy is to learn how to think. You see the mistakes that other thinkers made by tracing out their false premises and find out why their conclusions are false.
You don't want an open mind, you want a strong mind. Only the absolute truth of the Bible can give you that.
@edwardpf123 Yes, thats actually a pretty good definition of philosophy: "learning how to think". I like that. As for Aristotle, he tried to use logic to find answers, and he failed. Just like Bertrand Russell tried to use mathematics, which encompasses logic, to come to ultimate truths, and also failed. Wittgenstein, a student of Russell, tried the same thing, and gave up. It doesn't mean that no one will ever succeed, it just means that we haven't yet, and we shouldn't hold our breaths.
I made a video response. While it's uploading, I just want to point out that you should watch the videos by Louie Giglio that Ifhasa posted. If Chrisitans had his attitude, I would have no reason to pontificate on the internet like I do. Instead, I see the arrogance and nastiness of people like Vodie Baucham, and it disgusts me. And the fact that there are "worse" things going on the in the world DOESN'T mean that I should not be DISGUSTED by Baucham.
@brailleGraffiti -I have watched both your response video and Bauchman's, and frankly, I don't know why you are reacting to it. Baucham simply said that a 1st year philosophy student was not able to understand the question he was asking about suffering. He is using it like a 'gotcha' question, thinking Christians have no reasonable answer for it. And reversing the question is legimate, why is there any good in the world? Where does that come from?
@edwardpf123 Reversing the question is fine, but he did it in such a one sided way that he I'm sure he shut the student down completely. Again, I know this, because I've lived similar experiences (though not with religious people) in my college life. Are you a college student? Have you ever been one? Maybe that's why you can't relate, and don't understand what I'm reacting to. Another reminder of why sensitivity and compassion is so important.
@edwardpf123 And you really think Baucham taught him something he didn't or couldn't hear from thundering loud preachers on TV who preach about gloom and doom all the time? I don't think so. But that's the whole point of my video isn't it?
I never said that CHRISTIANS want to you to cast aside reason! I said that BAUCHAM did! Is your identity as a Christian so closely interwoven with Baucham that you can no longer differentiate between the two?
I have no more of a "basis" for my beliefs than you. You may have more life experience, but you may not use your experiences to negate mine. I also don't know how you could find anything that I said in my conclusion "false". I made no factual claims. I simply asked you to think, and to come to your own conclusions, even if they were Christian conclusions.
I had a conversation (if you could call it that) with someone else on my video about what the founding fathers believed. I offered them a LITANY of quotes in which the founding fathers, such as John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson speak out AGAINST Christianity. So I think your assertion that the founding fathers were Christian is just that: an assertion. One with very little to back it up. I have not read Locke, but he is on my list.
@brailleGraffiti -Many of the Founders were Deists, they did believed in God but rejected the Trinity. But most were Christians. Lockes view are Christian, he believed that men, coming from Adam were equal, in the 'state of nature' and that they form civil societies by willingly giving up the right of revenge to a civil society to have impartial justice. This the consent of the governed. When a society ceases to have that justice, a man may cast off that government.
@edwardpf123 Now of what you said about the founding fathers is news to me. The point is that there was a diversity of opinions amongst them, not a single coherent view. I have to admit that I know very little of John Locke other than what my brother (who is a Police Officer and Iraq war veteran) has told me. Not surprisingly, he is horrified by the views that Baucham espouses, and has even told me so himself. So don't try to use Locke as a weapon. I doubt he is on Baucham's side.
@brailleGraffiti -Ofcoruse it is news to you, you have studied the subject. Yes, there was diversity of opinion regarding religion, but there was a coherent view regarding freedom. Locke was being used as an example of the Christian foundation of the nations found document, the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson got his ideas about 'all men being created equal' from Locke. In the age of the Divine Right of Kings, i it was quite radical.
@brailleGraffiti -Ok. It isn't news to you, but the fact is that those who founded this nation had a God centered worldview, even the Deists (who thought God created the world and put laws into effect and then left it alone).
@edwardpf123 Being "God centered" is VERY different from being a Christian. You might want to learn the difference. I could even say that my agnosticism leans toward being "God centered", for I certainly don't put much stock in man.
@brailleGraffiti -We are talking about worldviews, and the worldview of being God centered is a Judeo-Christian one. Even though you don't put great stock in man, your view is man centered since you are rejecting absolute objective truth, for a subjective, relativism which means, truth is relating to self and not God.
@brailleGraffiti -No by God. The Bible is the final absolute truth, not any man. Bauchman is only correct in so far as he lines up with the Bible. Regarding the sin nature in man, he is correct, we are all born with it and begin sinning as soon as we have enough reason to make a choice. But God has made payment for that sin so we don't have to pay for our own. It is a free gift, one only need accept it.
@edwardpf123 "No, we check what says by what the Bible says (Acts 17:11)." Oh, so you line two Bible's up and compare them to make sure they say the same thing? But then how do you find out what either of them means? And which translation, out of the hundreds variations, do you use? The King James, of course, but why? Or do you think you have divine authority to interpret? I'd go with that one if I were you. You're starting to sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.
@edwardpf123 The worldview of being "god centered" is a Judeo-Christian worldview in what sense? That it is monotheistic? In that case you better knock off the Christian part, the Jews were WAAAY ahead of you guys there, even though you think you trump them.
@brailleGraffiti -It is God centered in that since God created it, it has an objective order.
Christians owe a great debt to the Jews and their Old Testament is part our Bible.
We 'trump' them because we have accepted what they have rejected, Christ as the saviour. But God will bless the Jews later because they are still beloved (see my video on anti-semitism)
But if you don't have a KJB, I would be happy to send you one free of charge. Just PM me your address.
@edwardpf123 That doesn't make any sense. Virtually all religions believe that God created and objective order. This includes even the most primitive religions that predate history. This is the central thesis of ANY religion. Tell me again, how is being "God-Centered" Judeo-Christian?
@brailleGraffiti Sure I am--to those whose will is to know the truth and to know God. The Scribes and Pharisees lived when the glorious Son of God walked among them healing the sick, raising the dead and speaking words from heaven and things hidden from before the foundation of the world, and they could not see it. Blindness is a choice. I can't make you see, when you refuse to open your eyes and humble your heart
@Providential1611 Sure, you could say that. I say that you are as blind as the Pharisees in your view that God is wrathful and goes around sending people to hell. Where did you ultimately come to your views about human nature, anyway? Who taught you this?
@brailleGraffiti I don't teach or believe what you ascribe to me. So your retort is invalid, nor does it absolve you from what the Bible calls wilful ignorance-2Peter 3. God SO LOVED THE WORLD that He gave His Son. I have made this plain over and over in my videos to you, but I guess its easier for you to argue with strawmen than what I actually believe. TO your question--The Bible and confirmed by actual observation and the study of history. FACT.
@Providential1611 What you ACTUALLY believe is irrelevant to me, I can only argue with your words. I cannot know what goes on in your head. Did you listen to that Wittgenstein quote that I recited at all?
@brailleGraffiti That is too bad since you ascribe certain ideas to me and then condemn such notions--for you to then say what I actually believe is irrelevant??? Yes this is a "game" to you. You don't abide by rules of debate or discussion, you willingly engage in any fallacy that will suit your purpose and you are wasting my time. Your last comment seals it for me. I have made three responses to you, that any honest person can see went over your head. I will pray for U
@Providential1611 You have dismissed, as you have dismissed everything else in your life that you do not understand. Just like you dismiss Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism. In the end, you know nothing, you are no closer to god or man than you were before, which wasn't very close to begin with. You give your platitude that you will "pray for me", but in your heart, you don't care a bit.
@Providential1611 You think you've gone over my head? Tell me "old man", what degrees do you hold? Have you been pretending to me this whole time? Where does this sage wisdom of yours come from?
@edwardpf123 I have a KJB version of the Bible, it was given to me as a child. Thank you. And I appreciate your concern, but I'm more concerned about you.
@edwardpf123 You don't "trump" them, you merely accepted something they see as false, and they may well be right: it may be false. You should consider that as well.
"The things that Nietszche says are STUPID". Ok, thats your opinion. Christianity has NOT been exclusively a force for good. They didn't call it the "DARK AGES" for nothing. They also didn't call the decline of Christianity "THE ENLIGHTENMENT" for nothing either. Get it straight.
Original Sin offers A SINGLE explanation of the human condition. This is true. It is a complete explanation, this is also true. BUT THERE ARE OTHER EXPLANATIONS THAT ARE EQUALLY AS CONVINCING. And more importantly, they do not involve the deadening of feelings, and the Clockwork Orange feeling that your view imposes on people.
@edwardpf123 It is the "BEST" in your opinion. You must accept this. It may really be the BEST, but you have no objective way of proving this. "Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must remain silent." Accepting this fact is the first step to TRUE wisdom, and a much livelier and genuine belief in Christ, if that is the path you choose to take.
@brailleGraffiti -Ofcourse there is an objective way of proving it, it is found in every culture and society. So, cultural differences and different societies make no difference.
There is only one path, I am the way, the truth and the life no man come unto the Father but by me (Jn.14:6)
But you quote about being silent is an apt one and that was what Baucham was saying regarding 1st year philosophy students.
@edwardpf123 No, that's not objective. You simply don't understand other cultures if you think they are similar enough to your own that you can some how inductively prove that the Christian God is the only God. This is non-sense. You are fooling yourself, and no one but yourself.
@brailleGraffiti -We aren't discussing God, we are discussing sin and the fact that it exists in every culture. All children in every culture act the same and must be taught the correct way to act, and resist that correction. That is an absolute fact and cultural differences mean nothing, so culture cannot be what causes this, it is inherent in man.
@edwardpf123 Ok, I'll grant you that, children do need to be taught the "right way" to behave. But what is the right way? I think children resist any "way", regardless of what it is, because they inherently know how futile and silly the religion and philosophies of man are.
@brailleGraffiti -When I speak of the right way in regards to children, I am speaking of obeying their parents, not taking other children's toys, not hitting other children, demanding attention in public places by having temper tantrums etc.
Children have to be taught to be 'good' because their nature is to be bad (selfish)
No child is 'bad' because he inherently knows how foolish religion and philosphy is, they are bad because they are selfish.
@edwardpf123 "They are bad because they are selfish". This is YOUR opinion for which you have no objective proof. Adults do worse things than children: they start wars, kill, rape, murder each other, RAM THEIR VIEWS DOWN EACH OTHERS throats, etcetera. And then you have the GALL to call children selfish? You have a lot of nerve.
@edwardpf123 Self love is what we are all lacking. Self hate is brought on by you view that we are all "sinners" and "evil". One who loves himself naturally comes to love others, without force or punishment.
@brailleGraffiti PREPOSTEROUS! Selfish people are SELFISH and live gratify themselves, no matter who they have to step on to do it. You are uttering pure foppery and easily demonstrable nonsense.
@Providential1611 Then demonstrate it then. I think you've been trying very hard to demonstrate it so far, and you've come up with absolutely nothing. Of course you'll say that my eyes are blind, which may be the case. But how do you know that's not true of you?
@brailleGraffiti Demonstrate that selfishness and selfish people hurt others, rather than your assertion that selfish people come to love others??? Surely you jest! All the evil we know as a race of humans is due to SELFISHNESS, which is the antithesis of loving others. For to love others is to prefer another'c concern and needs ahead of our own, as Christ taught us.
@Providential1611 No, now you're putting words in my mouth. I did not say "selfish" people come to love others, I said that those who love themselves come to love others. You should take your own advice about that thing you said about accepting the premises of an argument.
@Providential1611 No, now you're putting words in my mouth. I did not say "selfish" people come to love others, I said that those who love themselves come to love others. You should take your own advice about that thing you said about accepting the premises of an argument.
@Providential1611 And you talk about college students making dirty tricks with language, what did you just try to do to me there? Surely, that is hypocritical.
@brailleGraffiti No sir. There are self-eviudent truths that need no proof. The idea that selfishness leads people to love others is PRESPOSTEROUS! Your innane assertions only requires denial to refute it, nothing more. Until you can provide EVIDENCE for the virtue of selfishness, all I can do is shake my head and laugh. Boy modern college sure is a dangerous place for a human mind to come under the influence of!
@Providential1611 Again, you try to trick me with language. I DID NOT SAY SELFISHNESS LEADS OTHERS TO LOVE OF OTHERS. I said that SELF LOVE LEADS TO LOVE OF OTHERS. If you keep calling a tree a frog, IT'S NOT GOING TO TURN INTO A FROG!
@brailleGraffiti No it does not. Self-love in the context with Edward was about selfishness, why children seem to naturally be bad and have to be taught to be good and to share--that is the context of your statement. Why do you confuse categories? You have committed many category errors on the comments and your video responses. Its a Merry-go-round with you. DEFINE self-love then and distinguish it from SELFISHNESS.
@Providential1611 No, that was the context that he chose. I gave a new context, and he didn't want to accept it. Just as you do not want to accept it now. You want to continue to keep your preconceptions about selfishness, and merely call it "self love". To quote Yoda from Star Wars: UNLEARN WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED!
@Providential1611 It's a merry go round with me because you only know how to operate in the predetermined conventions of language. I am speaking a new language to you, and you do not understand me. Likely, you are getting frustrated, and I think you will give up soon.
@Providential1611 These self evident truths that need no proof are the subjective truths that we have in our hearts, of which WE CANNOT PROVE, though we may desperately try, in vain.
@brailleGraffiti -Actually that is false. To acknowledge one is a sinner brings one to a relationship with God and that is where all true love starts.
@edwardpf123 You also observe these things, hitting, taking other children's toys, not listening to their parents, and you label them as good and bad, because that is what your parents taught you. And their parents before them. It is not written anywhere that these things are "bad" and you have no idea what feelings run the mind of a child when they engage in this behavior, so just give up. You have nothing to stand on here.
@brailleGraffiti -Are these comments you make suppose to be witty and clever? They are those of an idiot. The expression refers to be innocent and humble.
@edwardpf123 If you would like to LABEL me as an idiot, call my comments "clever", and then walk away, you are welcome to it. Just know that I did not label you, I gave you an opportunity to show your TRUE self to me. So far, all you have shown me is some one who thinks that a degree is an ENTITLEMENT to something. Just because you have degree, doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean that I have to listen to you. I will not be "innocent and humble" in the face of some one who thinks he DESERVES such from me.
@brailleGraffiti -LOL! You puffed up egomanic, no one cares what you think about anything. Providential1611 was being considerate to you by spending as much time as he did on his videos explaining your ignorance and arrogrance. You clearly haven't got the point, but his response videos will hopefully reach others who aren't as braindead as you are.
@edwardpf123 You're grasping at straws. I know no one cares what I think, BECAUSE YOU'VE ALL DISMISSED ME before you even listened! And I am thankful for Providential1611's time, that's why I want to continue a debate with him, although he seems to have given up. Perhaps I scared him off, oh well. It was not my intention.
@brailleGraffiti -Are you have shown is your own inability to think and engage in a serious discussion of any kind. You use nothing but ad hominem, straw men, and begging the question arguments. There is no 'debate' going on. You haven't added anything to the discussion except some attempts to sound intelligent, which have failed.
That is why you have been dismissd. Mediate on what Providential has said to you, he has given you more wisdom then all of the philosopher's you cited
@edwardpf123 I have not been dismissed, but you are FINALLY making some valid arguments. I have been meditating on Providential's comments, but you're just trying to bullying me, and it's not working.
@edwardpf123 This is very true, I did make an issue out of that. I did it, because he was giving me the impression of someone who thought that he could simply lecture me, and use his experience as a weapon. I made that pointed comment, to show him that his experiences do not negate mine. You both try to use a "proof by authority" argument, but it seems that he doesn't even have a degree! At least you do, but that still proves nothing.
@edwardpf123 The quote does apply to the Student, but the student is supposed to be A STUDENT, and not know anything. That is why it applies more to Baucham than anyone else.
@brailleGraffiti -The emphasis was on first year student, which is a far cry from being a 4th year student and having at least learned some of the alternative arguments.
By the time you reach the 4th year, you at least know what you don't know. In the first year you THINK you know something.
@brailleGraffiti -Well when you actually graduate from college and get a degree, then you come back to me. Clearly the only thing you have learned in college so far is how to be rude and arrogrant.
@edwardpf123 Like I said, I have ONE father, and he has my respect, because he EARNED it. You are not HALF the man he is, and you think that I'm just going to GIVE you my respect because you have a degree?
@edwardpf123 Oh my gosh! You have TWO? OH, why didn't you say this before! Now I will listen to everything you say!
You could care less about anything, because you DON'T CARE. You only care about yourself, and not going to hell. Again, I could be wrong, but show me otherwise.
You also have a very twisted view about what goes on in universities. THEY DO NOT TEACH ATHEISM IN SCIENCE CLASSES! They do not teach religion in science classes! THEY TEACH SCIENCE IN SCIENCE CLASSES! It usually involves a lot of math an computation. If you have a professor that pushes his atheistic world view onto his students, guess what? HES A BAD PROFESSOR! I've had Christian professors, and they have even talked about Christianity in class, and I LOVED them. You live in a very small box.
"Clearly we are all born wrong"? Where does this guilt come from? We are not born wrong, and all of these "evils" you think you see are made up. You learned them. When you are a child, you have NO concept of right and wrong. As you grow into adult hood, if you are not taught right and wrong, you will make up your own rules. The Mayans in the Americas had their own rules. Yes, they were scary and involved blood letting. But that in an of itself doesn't make them WRONG! They were just different.
@brailleGraffiti -There is not a society that existed that didn't have laws against murder and theft. The bloodthirsty cultures that had human sacrifice rejected the true God who never demanded that from man (Rom.1), but performed those sacrifices because of their guilt.
As a child you don't have a concept of right and wrong, until you start disobeying what your parents tell you. And then you lie to cover up what you have done when you get caught.
@edwardpf123 All opinions, all your philosophy. You cannot force these views onto me, or expect me to believe them as truth merely because you say they are. I respect them, but you must be gentle in getting other to believe you, not loud mouthed and arrogant like Baucham (and as I have come across to some).
@brailleGraffiti -And who said otherwise. And I didn't see Baucham as being loud mouthed or arrogant. He was simply saying that the 1st year philosophy students aren't prepared to ask the question about suffering because they haven't figured out the right way to ask it.
I have an explanation: there is no inherent selfishness. There is NO inherent evil in CHILDREN. You have made these things up! This is your adult mind imposing your ADULT views of the world onto CHILDREN! Can you not see how absurd this is? They are CHILDREN! They do things that THEY DONT UNDERSTAND! I believe that Jesus has many teachings about the importance of the innocence of Children, how can you ignore all of these?
@brailleGraffiti -And as they grow up, they display an inherent selfish nature. They need to be taught by their parents right from wrong, to play with others, to respect other's property etc.
I have about 60 books on my shelf that I plan on reading, some of which are by Christians, including C.S. Lewis AND I'm studying philosophy precisely to address these issues. DO YOU THINK A PHILOSOPHY DEGREE MAKES MONEY? Didn't think so. I'm doing it for me. I don't know what you think I have to do to give it any more importance, other than to bow to down to your worldview.
@brailleGraffiti -Well, the fact that you have 60 books to read shows that you have a great deal of learning to do and that takes time. The only one you have to bow down to is Christ (Phil.2:10). Providential 1611 and myself are only trying to get you see that. So don't take offense.
I have read Decartes, Kierkegaard, Leibniz AND Immanuel Kant. ALL CHRISTIAN. You may not have read these great men, BUT I HAVE. Leibniz in particular was a great scientist. He invented calculus (at the same time, but independent of Newton) and also refuted perpetual motion machines. YOU KNOW NOTHING OF SCIENCE. Stop pretending.
@brailleGraffiti -Because they claim to be Christian doesn't make them Christian.
But your arguments supports providential's since he made the point that many scientists were Christian. If you read Kant and understand him, you are a genius.
@edwardpf123 Exactly, "Christian" is just a word. It's what is in your heart that counts.
Many of my arguments do support Providential1611's. I often find that this happens in serious debates: I end up agree with the person even though we started out on very different sides of things. This reflects my belief that those who struggle with the meaning of life will eventually converge on the right answer, whatever that may be.
I've read Kant, I understood some, but I wouldn't call myself a genius.
@brailleGraffiti -Actually Christian is a Biblical term, a name given to Christians by non-Christians for those who followed Christ (Acts 11:26), and many demoninations that call themselves 'Christian' aren't since they do not understand the true Gospel that makes one a Christian.
Those who struggle with the meaning of life will only find the meaning of life when they remain humble, objective, honest, and put truth above pride.
You evoke all of the "pseudo intellectual college students" without naming any one of them in particular. You do this so that you can label me and dismiss me. You are not arguing with me, but a phantom. As Kierkegaard would say: "That which labels me, negates me." Kierkegaard was a great man. A Christian, the kind you don't come by much in these times of hysteria and fear.
@braillegraffiti And further I get the feeling you just want to be noticed, to have some attention even if it is negative. I raised 4 children and am familiar with the ploy. Just know this, there is a God in heaven who marks your every word and deed. The day is coming when you will give an account, as we all must, before him. Only one plea will avail, Jesus died for me and I trust him as my Saviour. You may mock men who are in every way your betters but be not deceived God is not mocked.
mwilson70201 1 month ago
Excellent video!
SEK4110 1 month ago
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brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I think the arrogance that a lot of you demonstrate is equally matched by the Pharisees. Other than the fact that they rejected your Jesus, they would have made good company for you, since you are all loud mouthed and opinionated, and even if the son of God stood before you, you wouldn't see him, since you've already made up your minds about EVERYTHING!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I also find it very amusing that MOST of you didn't even watch my responses. This video has 142 views, as of now, while my three responses have around 48 COMBINED!
"It's because you're stupid and we already know you're wrong."
I can read your minds, and there isn't much going on up there.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -We can tell from your comments what a waste of time watching your videos would be. We have already wasted enough time on you.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 If I'm "wasting" your time, GO DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE, instead of telling me how I'm wasting your time! Why can't you people make up your minds what it is that you want to be doing? Again, Nietszche was right! Clueless!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Since it is my time, I will waste in whatever manner I see fit.
If Nietszeche was right about anything, it was an accident.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@Providential1611 Have you given up? Or are you just working on your responses? I hope you haven't given up. It seemed like you actually cared.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -He has given up because of your inability to grasp reality and objective truth.
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filtiness. There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
(Pr.30:12-13).
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Well then he is just as silly and clueless as you. But wait? Why are you still here? I thought I was a waste of your time! MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 All your degrees, as these are the best arguments you have? A few flimsy verses, and some name calling? What college did you go to? I want to make sure that my children never go there!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Speaking of courtrooms, you should watch A Few Good Men. You have a lot in common with the arrogant general, played by Jack Nicholson.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I have ONE father, and all of you combined do not make HALF the man that he is, nor equal his brainpower, so if you have ANY sense at all, you will listen, instead of shooting your mouths off LIKE SPOILED CHILDREN.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
You seem to think that calling me "boy" and "young" are insults, which ONLY reflect your own raging arrogance. And then you wonder why "this generation" rebels and doesn't listen to you. You treats us like caged animals, and when you set us free, we bite and you wonder why. Well now you've been TOLD.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
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brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
It seems the boy is rather full of himself. BG's lack of humility is evidence of a fertile mind and an unconverted heart, a condition that is rampant among the aca demia ru les crowd. It's telling that his utube name associates him with the blind, I wonder if that was freudian slip. No one 'learns' to be a Christian, the new birth is not an intellectual process it's a spiritual event. Prov1611 has graciously and effectively dealt with a young man who needs to be born again. Jesus saves sinners.
mwilson70201 1 month ago
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@mwilson70201 All of you seem to think that you age ENTITLES you to something that you have NOT earned, namely, my respect. You will get it when you learn to treat me as a human being and an equal. You may treat your children as inferior OBJECTS that you can boss around, as is evident by all of your attitudes that children are inherently selfish, but I am NOT your child, and you WILL respect me, or this conversation will NOT continue.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti I'm not interested in getting involved in your squabble I just wanted to say something that might be beneficial in the future. Respect is not gained by demanding it. Respect is commanded by a man's demeanor, strength and carraige. It's also usually a reciprocal thing. You have inserted yourself into this matter for whatever reason and now aren't happy that others find you annoying rather than articulate. Perhaps if you weren't so childish you wouldn't be treated like one.
mwilson70201 1 month ago
I can see right into your soul, and it's not a pretty place. Your eyes say a lot.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
What's really sad is that you think you know logic and reason, and you haven't a clue. Can you explain Godel's theorem to me? I think not. Do you even know who Kurt Godel is? I think not. You've wasted your life on this ideal, which you never even touched.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
You're just old and scared, and I feel sorry for you. When was the last time you laughed? Woke up happy, with a warm feeling in your chest? When was the last time you danced? Or has life just been an endless treadmill of misery? Is that why you're so fixated on hell, and the so called negative aspects of humanity?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti Hey little boy...anyone who has watched and read some of the exchanges between the two of you can see you are an idiot. Not only did you get your tail whipped on every issue, but I would bet this guy you're calling an old man could whip your effeminate litte hide as well. You are a disrespectful little brat. Shut your mouth
smashmouth1001 1 month ago
@smashmouth1001 So how many hides did Jesus "whip"? When did the Apostles go around flexing their masculinity? Nietszche is right, you people REALLY can't count to three.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
Animals also engage in homosexuality, do you run up to monkeys and beat them over the head with your Bible because they touch each other "inappropriately"?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
When an animal kills another animal for food, is that bad? When two wolves fight over a bone, is that bad? Or maybe, like children, they just do their own thing, and people like you come along and make them feel bad for doing these things, which are ONLY part of their nature.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
Maybe whatch Louie Giglio, he seems to have a better grip on things than most Christians.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
Y'all need to get out of your boxes and take a look around you, it's a big world. And your fear is blinding you.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I put all three of your responses in, but only two show untill you click "see all" I did a short response to your 3 minute one. I am also going to upload a response to the comments you have posted. Yes, another long one, as you seem to have the penchant for opening one Pandora's box after another--in typical College fashion. There are no sound-bite answers to the things you say. Sorry I don't chop up the video. Just watch it piecemeal.
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 There are actually four videos, so you may want to check your inbox again. If you don't see it, let me know. I'll post it again. I may not get around to commenting on your new responses as quickly as your first.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti That is FINE. I prefer you take your time. I am not as interested in your quick responses as I am in thoughtful ones. No hurry friend. I'll look for the other. Also, I am posting the response video to your comments thus far as a response to this cideo here. I have to approve my own response!
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 The fourth video is actually VERY important, as it gets more to the heart of the matter of why I'm offended by Baucham's video, and I'm also not as antagonistic as the other videos. There is a lot more to me than pompousness and arrogance that you perceive (even though I am responsible for this view, since I have been deliberately trying to manipulate people's emotions).
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti I only watched the first one. I will watch the other three later. I have work to do. It is fun and enjoyable for me to try to minister to people via Youtube, but even video takes time--not as long as writing long responses, but if I had an assistant who could edit the videos and upload--well that would be helpful. God bless
Providential1611 1 month ago
Please remember that you have to approve my videos before they appear, as I had to approve yours. You will have to do this by going to your inbox, and clicking on the message that correspond to my videos, and then pressing the "approve" button.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I'm uploading that video now. Perhaps you will be annoyed at the fact that I have broken my response into so many videos, but I was rather annoyed that you made your's so long. It's very hard to listen and comprehend 45 minutes something so dense as religion and philosophy. There is STILL a lot more that I could say, but I'm going to let you soak in what I've said and make some responses of your own, if you are up for it.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I'm done riffing for now on this. I've got a lot more to say. I'll make another video.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
"They're not sincerely, they're challenges!" And YOU know what is going on in their head? Another mistake of confusing abstraction with reality! You know nothing about logic or reason, only shadows of reflections which you don't even understand. Though you believe you do, and thats a little scary.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
You've spoken to many people LIKE me, but have you ever spoken to ME before? You mistake the abstraction for the reality, a common error in this age, especially amongst Christians like yourself.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
"The premises are the very issues that are to be debated, not granted". That might be the smartest thing you've said, but I don't think you fully grasp what it means.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I'm showing you another way to look at an issue, but your eyes are blind and your ears are plugged. And again, have you ever set foot on a college campus in this decade? The more I listen to you, the more I think the answer is no. Again, step aside, you don't know anything.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
"You're not giving reasons, you're just stating what you think, and you mischaracterize...". Hmm that sounds familiar? Who would do such a thing? Oh thats right VODDIE BAUCHAM! If you can catch on to my game, why can't you catch on to his? It's because me views just aren't in line with yours. You don't get, and you may never get it.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
You are actually lecturing me about PROOF? HAHAHAHAHA! I'd bet my left arm that you NEVER wrote a mathematical proof in your life!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I suggest you read the Fixation of Belief by Charles Sanders Peirce, who was one of the greatest American logicians to ever live. Maybe that will give you some clarity as to the respective roles of science, religion, and philosophy, since you clearly have none. I'm not even sure you know the difference or what those words actually mean at times during you video.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@Providential1611 Philosophy is largely assertion, and you have an EXTREMELY misguided view of it if you think that everything is always mathematical and rigorous. Not that A SINGLE ONE of your arguments even exerted trivial comprehension of mathematics or the predicate calculus. You probably don't even know what those things are, another reason why you should step aside. You are too old and fixed in you ways. But like I said, it is never too late to change.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@Providential1611 You may be older than me, and I may be very young, but you have A LOT of learning ahead of you my friend, and not much time left in this life to get it done. You better start cramming, it's not too late.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@Providential1611 I would like to know when was the last time you set foot in a college classroom? "Anti-Christian bigots always attacking Christianity"? HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Did you read it in one of your Christian apologetic books? YOU KNOW NOTHING OF WHAT GOES IN UNIVERSITIES IN THIS DAY AND AGE. STOP PRETENDING.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
Again, you live in very tiny box.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
And you're comment about China is HILARIOUS! You think that if the Chinese were exposed to Christianity, then they would just convert en masse! LOL. You don't get out much do you? The Chinese actually have very sophisticated and elegant moral systems that you obviously have no appreciation or understanding of. Try reading up on Daoism and Confucianism. These faiths existed for THOUSANDS of years before Christianity, and will continue to exist regardless Christianity or the Chinese government.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
Amen! Well done. Favorited and put in my Biblical topic playlist.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
I'm in the process of uploading a third video. Again, you must go to your inbox to approve this video, which I believe can be accessed at the top right of this page.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I'm awake again. I made a second video. Both require your approval: you will need to go into your inbox and click the message that corresponds to my videos. I have done this with yours, and you will notice that it is now visible in my video.
On a side not, I would hope that in your next video, you will do me the favor of NOT repeatedly telling me how young and immature I am, lest I have to remind you how old and jaded you are.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Calling you young is not an insult, it is simply a reminder that wisdom and learning takes time, it cannot be rushed. But you do need to learn what the view you are being critical of actually teaches. As for questions, here is even more important then why is there suffering,
'but man dieth, and wasteth away: ye, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he' (Job.11:10)-
'What must I do to be saved' (Acts 16:30)
Philosophy doesn't answer those questions.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 I am aware of this, but your age, and the age of Povidential1611, confers advantage because you have had more time to learn. But DO NOT underestimate me. The rates at which people learn are different, and I may very well be smarter than most people who are twice my age.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Yes that is true, a young person can be wiser then an older one if he grasps the truths of God, as in the case of the Book of Job, where Elihu was wiser than the 3 elders who criticized Job. (Job.35)
In most cases however, age usually has the advantage of both experience and mediation on the subject.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 That's you opinion, which I can respect. I understand that you believe that the path to wisdom and virtue is through the Bible, and I will have you know that I have no abandoned this route. However, I believe that there are other paths, and all that I ask of you is that you consider them.
Age does confer advantage in most cases, that is correct. But we must treat each case as a new case, and not pre-determine the results in our heads before anything has actually happened.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 I have learned a lot about Chrisianity, through my own private studies and through my experience growing up in a predominantly Christian family. What experience do have with philosophy? And philosophy doesn't answer ANY questions. That's not the point of philosophy! YOU clearly don't know anything about the world view you are rejecting. One doesn't study philosophy to find answers, one studies it to find out what questions are possible.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti I gave you two questions that philosophy has no answer to and that is why it is unable to satisfy man. It is clear whatever form of Christianity you experienced, you didn't learn the arguments that dealt with Adam's sin and the imputation of sin to the human race. This was fought out between two rival schools, Pelegius and Augustine in the 5th century. As for philosophy, one does study it for answers, not just to find questions, see Aristotle.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Aristotle is NOT the authoritative philosopher. He was actually wrong about just about everything that he theorized (other than philosophy, which can never really be wrong). In all of human history, philosophy has not provided a concrete, undisputed answer for anything, and any time you accept one philosophy, you merely become a dogmatist. The point of studying philosophy, at least in my opinion, is that it opens your mind to as many different perspective as possible.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Aristotle was the father of logic, and the point was is goal was to develop a philosophy that had anwers, not simply asked questions. The point of studying philosophy is to learn how to think. You see the mistakes that other thinkers made by tracing out their false premises and find out why their conclusions are false.
You don't want an open mind, you want a strong mind. Only the absolute truth of the Bible can give you that.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Yes, thats actually a pretty good definition of philosophy: "learning how to think". I like that. As for Aristotle, he tried to use logic to find answers, and he failed. Just like Bertrand Russell tried to use mathematics, which encompasses logic, to come to ultimate truths, and also failed. Wittgenstein, a student of Russell, tried the same thing, and gave up. It doesn't mean that no one will ever succeed, it just means that we haven't yet, and we shouldn't hold our breaths.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@braille "one studies it to find out what questions are possible."
The only questions in life that really matter are:
1) Where did you come from?
2) Why are you here?
3) Where are you going? (after you die)
KingJamesBible 1 month ago
@KingJamesBible I agree, and the Bible gives answers to all of these. But so do all of the other faiths. Non of which I find satisfactory.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
My video is still uploading. I'm tired and need to go to sleep, I will post it in the morning.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I made a video response. While it's uploading, I just want to point out that you should watch the videos by Louie Giglio that Ifhasa posted. If Chrisitans had his attitude, I would have no reason to pontificate on the internet like I do. Instead, I see the arrogance and nastiness of people like Vodie Baucham, and it disgusts me. And the fact that there are "worse" things going on the in the world DOESN'T mean that I should not be DISGUSTED by Baucham.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -I have watched both your response video and Bauchman's, and frankly, I don't know why you are reacting to it. Baucham simply said that a 1st year philosophy student was not able to understand the question he was asking about suffering. He is using it like a 'gotcha' question, thinking Christians have no reasonable answer for it. And reversing the question is legimate, why is there any good in the world? Where does that come from?
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Reversing the question is fine, but he did it in such a one sided way that he I'm sure he shut the student down completely. Again, I know this, because I've lived similar experiences (though not with religious people) in my college life. Are you a college student? Have you ever been one? Maybe that's why you can't relate, and don't understand what I'm reacting to. Another reminder of why sensitivity and compassion is so important.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -I was a college student many years ago, and have an MA.
You seem to think that his view was harsh, but it was actually kind since that young person needed to learn what he didn't know.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 And you really think Baucham taught him something he didn't or couldn't hear from thundering loud preachers on TV who preach about gloom and doom all the time? I don't think so. But that's the whole point of my video isn't it?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I never called "these Christians" stupid people! I didn't even name them in my video! You aren't listening to me!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I never said that CHRISTIANS want to you to cast aside reason! I said that BAUCHAM did! Is your identity as a Christian so closely interwoven with Baucham that you can no longer differentiate between the two?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I have no more of a "basis" for my beliefs than you. You may have more life experience, but you may not use your experiences to negate mine. I also don't know how you could find anything that I said in my conclusion "false". I made no factual claims. I simply asked you to think, and to come to your own conclusions, even if they were Christian conclusions.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I had a conversation (if you could call it that) with someone else on my video about what the founding fathers believed. I offered them a LITANY of quotes in which the founding fathers, such as John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson speak out AGAINST Christianity. So I think your assertion that the founding fathers were Christian is just that: an assertion. One with very little to back it up. I have not read Locke, but he is on my list.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Many of the Founders were Deists, they did believed in God but rejected the Trinity. But most were Christians. Lockes view are Christian, he believed that men, coming from Adam were equal, in the 'state of nature' and that they form civil societies by willingly giving up the right of revenge to a civil society to have impartial justice. This the consent of the governed. When a society ceases to have that justice, a man may cast off that government.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Now of what you said about the founding fathers is news to me. The point is that there was a diversity of opinions amongst them, not a single coherent view. I have to admit that I know very little of John Locke other than what my brother (who is a Police Officer and Iraq war veteran) has told me. Not surprisingly, he is horrified by the views that Baucham espouses, and has even told me so himself. So don't try to use Locke as a weapon. I doubt he is on Baucham's side.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Ofcoruse it is news to you, you have studied the subject. Yes, there was diversity of opinion regarding religion, but there was a coherent view regarding freedom. Locke was being used as an example of the Christian foundation of the nations found document, the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson got his ideas about 'all men being created equal' from Locke. In the age of the Divine Right of Kings, i it was quite radical.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 I meant to say that it was NOT news to me. It was a typo if it came out any other way.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Ok. It isn't news to you, but the fact is that those who founded this nation had a God centered worldview, even the Deists (who thought God created the world and put laws into effect and then left it alone).
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Being "God centered" is VERY different from being a Christian. You might want to learn the difference. I could even say that my agnosticism leans toward being "God centered", for I certainly don't put much stock in man.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -We are talking about worldviews, and the worldview of being God centered is a Judeo-Christian one. Even though you don't put great stock in man, your view is man centered since you are rejecting absolute objective truth, for a subjective, relativism which means, truth is relating to self and not God.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 The "absolute objective truth" as given by whom? Voddie Baucham? Is he not a man? Or do you think he is more than that?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -No by God. The Bible is the final absolute truth, not any man. Bauchman is only correct in so far as he lines up with the Bible. Regarding the sin nature in man, he is correct, we are all born with it and begin sinning as soon as we have enough reason to make a choice. But God has made payment for that sin so we don't have to pay for our own. It is a free gift, one only need accept it.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 So how do you know he "lines up with the Bible"? Do you decide this? Are you not a man as well?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -No, we check what says by what the Bible says (Acts 17:11).
edwardpf123 1 month ago
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brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
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@edwardpf123 "No, we check what says by what the Bible says (Acts 17:11)." Oh, so you line two Bible's up and compare them to make sure they say the same thing? But then how do you find out what either of them means? And which translation, out of the hundreds variations, do you use? The King James, of course, but why? Or do you think you have divine authority to interpret? I'd go with that one if I were you. You're starting to sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 The worldview of being "god centered" is a Judeo-Christian worldview in what sense? That it is monotheistic? In that case you better knock off the Christian part, the Jews were WAAAY ahead of you guys there, even though you think you trump them.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -It is God centered in that since God created it, it has an objective order.
Christians owe a great debt to the Jews and their Old Testament is part our Bible.
We 'trump' them because we have accepted what they have rejected, Christ as the saviour. But God will bless the Jews later because they are still beloved (see my video on anti-semitism)
But if you don't have a KJB, I would be happy to send you one free of charge. Just PM me your address.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 That doesn't make any sense. Virtually all religions believe that God created and objective order. This includes even the most primitive religions that predate history. This is the central thesis of ANY religion. Tell me again, how is being "God-Centered" Judeo-Christian?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti Buddism does not. And when you do an actual study of comparitive religion, you will see
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 Perhaps I will see, but I haven't seen it yet, and you aren't very convincing.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti Sure I am--to those whose will is to know the truth and to know God. The Scribes and Pharisees lived when the glorious Son of God walked among them healing the sick, raising the dead and speaking words from heaven and things hidden from before the foundation of the world, and they could not see it. Blindness is a choice. I can't make you see, when you refuse to open your eyes and humble your heart
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 Sure, you could say that. I say that you are as blind as the Pharisees in your view that God is wrathful and goes around sending people to hell. Where did you ultimately come to your views about human nature, anyway? Who taught you this?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti I don't teach or believe what you ascribe to me. So your retort is invalid, nor does it absolve you from what the Bible calls wilful ignorance-2Peter 3. God SO LOVED THE WORLD that He gave His Son. I have made this plain over and over in my videos to you, but I guess its easier for you to argue with strawmen than what I actually believe. TO your question--The Bible and confirmed by actual observation and the study of history. FACT.
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 What you ACTUALLY believe is irrelevant to me, I can only argue with your words. I cannot know what goes on in your head. Did you listen to that Wittgenstein quote that I recited at all?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti That is too bad since you ascribe certain ideas to me and then condemn such notions--for you to then say what I actually believe is irrelevant??? Yes this is a "game" to you. You don't abide by rules of debate or discussion, you willingly engage in any fallacy that will suit your purpose and you are wasting my time. Your last comment seals it for me. I have made three responses to you, that any honest person can see went over your head. I will pray for U
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 You have dismissed, as you have dismissed everything else in your life that you do not understand. Just like you dismiss Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism. In the end, you know nothing, you are no closer to god or man than you were before, which wasn't very close to begin with. You give your platitude that you will "pray for me", but in your heart, you don't care a bit.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@Providential1611 You think you've gone over my head? Tell me "old man", what degrees do you hold? Have you been pretending to me this whole time? Where does this sage wisdom of yours come from?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 I have a KJB version of the Bible, it was given to me as a child. Thank you. And I appreciate your concern, but I'm more concerned about you.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Well thank you for your concern, but I know where I will be spending eternity, in heaven with the Lord-do you?
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 You don't "trump" them, you merely accepted something they see as false, and they may well be right: it may be false. You should consider that as well.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
"The things that Nietszche says are STUPID". Ok, thats your opinion. Christianity has NOT been exclusively a force for good. They didn't call it the "DARK AGES" for nothing. They also didn't call the decline of Christianity "THE ENLIGHTENMENT" for nothing either. Get it straight.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
You've OBVIOUSLY never read Kierkegaard, and you seem to have a hard time pronouncing his name, yet you feel comfortable judging him? Wow, just wow.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
Original Sin offers A SINGLE explanation of the human condition. This is true. It is a complete explanation, this is also true. BUT THERE ARE OTHER EXPLANATIONS THAT ARE EQUALLY AS CONVINCING. And more importantly, they do not involve the deadening of feelings, and the Clockwork Orange feeling that your view imposes on people.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -It is the BEST explanation of the human condition since it is found in every civilization and culture.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 It is the "BEST" in your opinion. You must accept this. It may really be the BEST, but you have no objective way of proving this. "Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must remain silent." Accepting this fact is the first step to TRUE wisdom, and a much livelier and genuine belief in Christ, if that is the path you choose to take.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Ofcourse there is an objective way of proving it, it is found in every culture and society. So, cultural differences and different societies make no difference.
There is only one path, I am the way, the truth and the life no man come unto the Father but by me (Jn.14:6)
But you quote about being silent is an apt one and that was what Baucham was saying regarding 1st year philosophy students.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 No, that's not objective. You simply don't understand other cultures if you think they are similar enough to your own that you can some how inductively prove that the Christian God is the only God. This is non-sense. You are fooling yourself, and no one but yourself.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -We aren't discussing God, we are discussing sin and the fact that it exists in every culture. All children in every culture act the same and must be taught the correct way to act, and resist that correction. That is an absolute fact and cultural differences mean nothing, so culture cannot be what causes this, it is inherent in man.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Ok, I'll grant you that, children do need to be taught the "right way" to behave. But what is the right way? I think children resist any "way", regardless of what it is, because they inherently know how futile and silly the religion and philosophies of man are.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -When I speak of the right way in regards to children, I am speaking of obeying their parents, not taking other children's toys, not hitting other children, demanding attention in public places by having temper tantrums etc.
Children have to be taught to be 'good' because their nature is to be bad (selfish)
No child is 'bad' because he inherently knows how foolish religion and philosphy is, they are bad because they are selfish.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 "They are bad because they are selfish". This is YOUR opinion for which you have no objective proof. Adults do worse things than children: they start wars, kill, rape, murder each other, RAM THEIR VIEWS DOWN EACH OTHERS throats, etcetera. And then you have the GALL to call children selfish? You have a lot of nerve.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Yes, they grow up from children so the degree of selfishness increases.
The root cause is love of self.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Self love is what we are all lacking. Self hate is brought on by you view that we are all "sinners" and "evil". One who loves himself naturally comes to love others, without force or punishment.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti PREPOSTEROUS! Selfish people are SELFISH and live gratify themselves, no matter who they have to step on to do it. You are uttering pure foppery and easily demonstrable nonsense.
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 Then demonstrate it then. I think you've been trying very hard to demonstrate it so far, and you've come up with absolutely nothing. Of course you'll say that my eyes are blind, which may be the case. But how do you know that's not true of you?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti Demonstrate that selfishness and selfish people hurt others, rather than your assertion that selfish people come to love others??? Surely you jest! All the evil we know as a race of humans is due to SELFISHNESS, which is the antithesis of loving others. For to love others is to prefer another'c concern and needs ahead of our own, as Christ taught us.
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 No, now you're putting words in my mouth. I did not say "selfish" people come to love others, I said that those who love themselves come to love others. You should take your own advice about that thing you said about accepting the premises of an argument.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
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@Providential1611 No, now you're putting words in my mouth. I did not say "selfish" people come to love others, I said that those who love themselves come to love others. You should take your own advice about that thing you said about accepting the premises of an argument.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@Providential1611 And you talk about college students making dirty tricks with language, what did you just try to do to me there? Surely, that is hypocritical.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti No sir. There are self-eviudent truths that need no proof. The idea that selfishness leads people to love others is PRESPOSTEROUS! Your innane assertions only requires denial to refute it, nothing more. Until you can provide EVIDENCE for the virtue of selfishness, all I can do is shake my head and laugh. Boy modern college sure is a dangerous place for a human mind to come under the influence of!
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 Again, you try to trick me with language. I DID NOT SAY SELFISHNESS LEADS OTHERS TO LOVE OF OTHERS. I said that SELF LOVE LEADS TO LOVE OF OTHERS. If you keep calling a tree a frog, IT'S NOT GOING TO TURN INTO A FROG!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti No it does not. Self-love in the context with Edward was about selfishness, why children seem to naturally be bad and have to be taught to be good and to share--that is the context of your statement. Why do you confuse categories? You have committed many category errors on the comments and your video responses. Its a Merry-go-round with you. DEFINE self-love then and distinguish it from SELFISHNESS.
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 No, that was the context that he chose. I gave a new context, and he didn't want to accept it. Just as you do not want to accept it now. You want to continue to keep your preconceptions about selfishness, and merely call it "self love". To quote Yoda from Star Wars: UNLEARN WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@Providential1611 It's a merry go round with me because you only know how to operate in the predetermined conventions of language. I am speaking a new language to you, and you do not understand me. Likely, you are getting frustrated, and I think you will give up soon.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@Providential1611 These self evident truths that need no proof are the subjective truths that we have in our hearts, of which WE CANNOT PROVE, though we may desperately try, in vain.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Actually that is false. To acknowledge one is a sinner brings one to a relationship with God and that is where all true love starts.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 You also observe these things, hitting, taking other children's toys, not listening to their parents, and you label them as good and bad, because that is what your parents taught you. And their parents before them. It is not written anywhere that these things are "bad" and you have no idea what feelings run the mind of a child when they engage in this behavior, so just give up. You have nothing to stand on here.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Maybe this is why Jesus said "Come unto me as a child". In other words, put aside you petty fear, philosophy, and religion.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Are these comments you make suppose to be witty and clever? They are those of an idiot. The expression refers to be innocent and humble.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 If you would like to LABEL me as an idiot, call my comments "clever", and then walk away, you are welcome to it. Just know that I did not label you, I gave you an opportunity to show your TRUE self to me. So far, all you have shown me is some one who thinks that a degree is an ENTITLEMENT to something. Just because you have degree, doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean that I have to listen to you. I will not be "innocent and humble" in the face of some one who thinks he DESERVES such from me.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -LOL! You puffed up egomanic, no one cares what you think about anything. Providential1611 was being considerate to you by spending as much time as he did on his videos explaining your ignorance and arrogrance. You clearly haven't got the point, but his response videos will hopefully reach others who aren't as braindead as you are.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 You're grasping at straws. I know no one cares what I think, BECAUSE YOU'VE ALL DISMISSED ME before you even listened! And I am thankful for Providential1611's time, that's why I want to continue a debate with him, although he seems to have given up. Perhaps I scared him off, oh well. It was not my intention.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Are you have shown is your own inability to think and engage in a serious discussion of any kind. You use nothing but ad hominem, straw men, and begging the question arguments. There is no 'debate' going on. You haven't added anything to the discussion except some attempts to sound intelligent, which have failed.
That is why you have been dismissd. Mediate on what Providential has said to you, he has given you more wisdom then all of the philosopher's you cited
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 I have not been dismissed, but you are FINALLY making some valid arguments. I have been meditating on Providential's comments, but you're just trying to bullying me, and it's not working.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
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brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
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@edwardpf123 This is very true, I did make an issue out of that. I did it, because he was giving me the impression of someone who thought that he could simply lecture me, and use his experience as a weapon. I made that pointed comment, to show him that his experiences do not negate mine. You both try to use a "proof by authority" argument, but it seems that he doesn't even have a degree! At least you do, but that still proves nothing.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 The quote does apply to the Student, but the student is supposed to be A STUDENT, and not know anything. That is why it applies more to Baucham than anyone else.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -The emphasis was on first year student, which is a far cry from being a 4th year student and having at least learned some of the alternative arguments.
By the time you reach the 4th year, you at least know what you don't know. In the first year you THINK you know something.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Wow, did you learn all this about students yourself? :P
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -I spent enough time with students as a student to understand students.
I went to college 8 years. How many years to you have? Have you even graduated yet as an undergraduate?
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 I'm glad you spent 8 years at college. Now show me that you actually learned something, and didn't wast your time and money.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Well when you actually graduate from college and get a degree, then you come back to me. Clearly the only thing you have learned in college so far is how to be rude and arrogrant.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Like I said, I have ONE father, and he has my respect, because he EARNED it. You are not HALF the man he is, and you think that I'm just going to GIVE you my respect because you have a degree?
"But the Bible, wah wah wah! I have a degree!"
I DON'T CARE!
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Actually I have two, and you have none. I could care less about your respect. With every post you make you show your immaturity.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Oh my gosh! You have TWO? OH, why didn't you say this before! Now I will listen to everything you say!
You could care less about anything, because you DON'T CARE. You only care about yourself, and not going to hell. Again, I could be wrong, but show me otherwise.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
You also have a very twisted view about what goes on in universities. THEY DO NOT TEACH ATHEISM IN SCIENCE CLASSES! They do not teach religion in science classes! THEY TEACH SCIENCE IN SCIENCE CLASSES! It usually involves a lot of math an computation. If you have a professor that pushes his atheistic world view onto his students, guess what? HES A BAD PROFESSOR! I've had Christian professors, and they have even talked about Christianity in class, and I LOVED them. You live in a very small box.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
"Clearly we are all born wrong"? Where does this guilt come from? We are not born wrong, and all of these "evils" you think you see are made up. You learned them. When you are a child, you have NO concept of right and wrong. As you grow into adult hood, if you are not taught right and wrong, you will make up your own rules. The Mayans in the Americas had their own rules. Yes, they were scary and involved blood letting. But that in an of itself doesn't make them WRONG! They were just different.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -There is not a society that existed that didn't have laws against murder and theft. The bloodthirsty cultures that had human sacrifice rejected the true God who never demanded that from man (Rom.1), but performed those sacrifices because of their guilt.
As a child you don't have a concept of right and wrong, until you start disobeying what your parents tell you. And then you lie to cover up what you have done when you get caught.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 All opinions, all your philosophy. You cannot force these views onto me, or expect me to believe them as truth merely because you say they are. I respect them, but you must be gentle in getting other to believe you, not loud mouthed and arrogant like Baucham (and as I have come across to some).
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -And who said otherwise. And I didn't see Baucham as being loud mouthed or arrogant. He was simply saying that the 1st year philosophy students aren't prepared to ask the question about suffering because they haven't figured out the right way to ask it.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
I have an explanation: there is no inherent selfishness. There is NO inherent evil in CHILDREN. You have made these things up! This is your adult mind imposing your ADULT views of the world onto CHILDREN! Can you not see how absurd this is? They are CHILDREN! They do things that THEY DONT UNDERSTAND! I believe that Jesus has many teachings about the importance of the innocence of Children, how can you ignore all of these?
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -And as they grow up, they display an inherent selfish nature. They need to be taught by their parents right from wrong, to play with others, to respect other's property etc.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
Very interesting, you think that people are inherently evil, and that they need to be "taught" to be good. This explains a lot.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -It explains the human condition and it is a simple fact that is found in every culture and society.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
I have about 60 books on my shelf that I plan on reading, some of which are by Christians, including C.S. Lewis AND I'm studying philosophy precisely to address these issues. DO YOU THINK A PHILOSOPHY DEGREE MAKES MONEY? Didn't think so. I'm doing it for me. I don't know what you think I have to do to give it any more importance, other than to bow to down to your worldview.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Well, the fact that you have 60 books to read shows that you have a great deal of learning to do and that takes time. The only one you have to bow down to is Christ (Phil.2:10). Providential 1611 and myself are only trying to get you see that. So don't take offense.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
Stupid caricature? YOUVE TURNED ME INTO A STUPID CARICATURE of "psuedo intellectual". You listened to NOTHING that I said! It's simply amazing.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
I have read Decartes, Kierkegaard, Leibniz AND Immanuel Kant. ALL CHRISTIAN. You may not have read these great men, BUT I HAVE. Leibniz in particular was a great scientist. He invented calculus (at the same time, but independent of Newton) and also refuted perpetual motion machines. YOU KNOW NOTHING OF SCIENCE. Stop pretending.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Because they claim to be Christian doesn't make them Christian.
But your arguments supports providential's since he made the point that many scientists were Christian. If you read Kant and understand him, you are a genius.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
@edwardpf123 Exactly, "Christian" is just a word. It's what is in your heart that counts.
Many of my arguments do support Providential1611's. I often find that this happens in serious debates: I end up agree with the person even though we started out on very different sides of things. This reflects my belief that those who struggle with the meaning of life will eventually converge on the right answer, whatever that may be.
I've read Kant, I understood some, but I wouldn't call myself a genius.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago
@brailleGraffiti -Actually Christian is a Biblical term, a name given to Christians by non-Christians for those who followed Christ (Acts 11:26), and many demoninations that call themselves 'Christian' aren't since they do not understand the true Gospel that makes one a Christian.
Those who struggle with the meaning of life will only find the meaning of life when they remain humble, objective, honest, and put truth above pride.
edwardpf123 1 month ago
You evoke all of the "pseudo intellectual college students" without naming any one of them in particular. You do this so that you can label me and dismiss me. You are not arguing with me, but a phantom. As Kierkegaard would say: "That which labels me, negates me." Kierkegaard was a great man. A Christian, the kind you don't come by much in these times of hysteria and fear.
brailleGraffiti 1 month ago