Is Amway's teaching Christian? We can learn a great lesson from Paul's inspired letter to Philemon. He could have told Onesimus (the christian slave) to seek a better life or to "Go Diamond!" but he didn't. Amway teams always use guilt statements & belittle employee positions in their presentation when Paul never looked down upon a slave's employment. He encouraged them to get back to work, not seek "freedom". John the baptist even told a soldier to "...be content with your wages.” Lk 3:14
@Terratonific Is there a single Amway lie, platitude, received wisdom, recycled soundbite, stock-phrase or disingenuous line of Pure Bullshit that you HAVEN'T bought into???
You need Cult detox Buddy. Check out Steve Hassan. He has extensive experience with Amway Borg Replicants...Sorry... I meant "Independent Business Owners"
Its so hard for an IBO to get out of this especially with all the $, time, friendships and family they have involved. It is only when one becomes a Christian (with a new heart) that they can recognize the materialisme the leaders promote and encourage. You only have to attend 1 Awmay meeting to hear all the riches and your best life now that you can have.
You know what... after this week of ping pong arguing with you, it's obvious, at least to me that you're seriously disturbed in the head pal. You really need to seek professional help and to admit yourself to the mental ward ASAP. You claim to be a Christian?! Based on how you think, talk and act it's clear that you're not!
What exactly about MACGARCIA's thinking, talking, and acting suggests he's not a Christian? Just the fact he's not in Amway? You're the one assaulting his character. He's only criticizing Amway. You're choosing to shoot the messenger rather than face the content of his message. His challenge to you is important and I suggest you face it. It's not about him, just like it's not about me, and it's not about you. It's about Amway. Stop making it personal.
"Ping pong" would imply you are devising clever replies to each pointed challenge. Unfortunately, you are only dodging those challenges with shallow, inane quips (see below), ad hominem (see below), obfuscation (see any of your posts), and misdirection. No one here is fooled but you.
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength.You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars"'
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
' waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars" '
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength.You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
Here is something you will never here from a leading IBO... “Take care, & be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”Lk 12:15 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have"Heb 13:5 "...I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content."Phil 4:11
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars" '
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
' The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense. '
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
' You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength.You are wrong. '
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
' waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars" '
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Amway is such a SCAM they say buy from them and you'll make money nah because people above you make money from you buying scam like a lot of BS is fed to you..
'people above you make money from you buying scam like a lot of BS is fed to you..'
YES, THEY ARE! Here's my advise to you; stop buying from your local convenience store or for that matter from ANY type of store because guess what... those people who own the stores make money from you buying their shit! You've been brainwashed by them but keep on buying form them! Even today you bought stuff! The cult is unbelievable! Why don't you save your grief then by going on food stamps?
My local shopkeeper took me to one side and offered to make me Rich if I simply convinced friends, family and strangers to shop at his Store at twice the going rate for products....I only had to get a few hundred thousand people to commit to this arrangement... forever. He even offered to sell me a program to show me how this could be done...How could I possibly refuse???
He never did that and you know it. But you seem comfortable to keep going to your local convenience store. Do that, it's your money and your choice! I already made my choice and I think I get better value than you do.
'The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense.'
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength. You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars"'
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
'The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense. '
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength. You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars"'
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
'The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense.'
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength. You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
@rbrtcn06IBO your absolutely right that it is legit and the numbers do work if you work it. Here is the problem though, as a Christian, the Bible says we shal not covet. Are you aware there is not 1 message on a CD, book or from the mouth of any (not one) leader that teaches..."Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Heb 13:5
@MACGARCIAcom Ahh.. but that is where things become based on the individual. Some... maybe even a LOT of people in Amway and just in general, have a Love for money. Which you're right, is a sin according to the bible. But as for me, and as for a lot of others I am sure, it's not a Love of money, its just another way to make money. I see Amway as a possibility to make more than what a job would make me. If I try and fail, so be it: then i'll get a job. BUT... If I succeed... :)
@Azer831 It does work and I made some great money and friendships. I even became a Christian at one of their Sunday morning services at one of those big conferences. The teaching though from the cd's, books and meetings teach "though shal covet" when the Bible teaches the total opposite.
'I have already answered your dare to give up all. If $ is an idol for me I will need to repent.'
Good start. Make sure you also dismantle your website and cancel all the next listed events where you charge people $200 per hour to have them pose for your drawing skills. You definitely made $ your new idol in contrast to your love for Jesus and must repent otherwise you go to Hell.
@Terratonific what are you talking about? I said that meaning if $ is my idol & God told me to repent I would, by His grace, but $ is not my idol. I am saved now. Money is not a sin just the "love" of $. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs."(1Tim 6:10) Have you heard of a leader talk on contentment?
'what are you talking about? I said that meaning if $ is my idol & God told me to repent I would, by His grace, but $ is not my idol.'
Oh! Wait a minute, now we're getting somewhere. If God didn't tell you to repent for charging people an idolatrous $200 per hour for drawing their picture, then why would you assume that I have to repent for charging people a decent $3 per one can of XS energy drink?
@Terratonific your going off the deep end now. Entertainment will costs more than an XS drink. And who said you have to repent of charging for a product. Your coming up with way to many stories on your own. The problem is NOT AMWAY or the products and services. I will say it again, Amway is great! The "system" (cd's, books, conferences) teaches that you shal covet! Prove me wrong. Name 1 message or book that teaches on contentment. I was in it for 4 yrs and not one message like that.
@Terratonific the critics dismiss clear understanding of a free enterprise and that AMWAY is a legal MLM no scam unless they were promised something without them working. You still have not answered my question and it seems your reading it the way you want. Tell me, "Name 1 message or book that teaches on contentment?" or that teach this, "Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have..." Heb 13:5. You will have to admit with no answer that they never teach that.
The business is simple but people are complex. Many people expect to make quick riches the right way but that is not the case in real life. Riches eventually come with hard work and the right kind of work in God's eyes. Those riches don't come by means of coveting; quick riches usually do. Yet it's not all about monetary riches; desiring to spend more quality time with family is a different type of riches. But how can you if you lack the money to pay for? Read more.
@Terratonific "And he said to them, “Take care, & be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” Lk 12:15 We are to guard against seeking riches. Here is 1 way you can seek quality time in a God honoring way... give up one of your cars, move to a smaller home, stop the cable, internet etc. and then a mom can stay home. You don't have to tempt others to gain your dream. Be content in what u have.
If your goal is let's say to spend quality time with family, go to more trips, forget about winter, get rid of your boss and reclaim your quality of life and finances, be able to donate to the needy what you desire versus what you're limited by your hourly wage job, drive a nicer, better car and much more; those things can only be accomplished by working hard through dedication and discipline with faith. Those things won't just come out of the blue. Read more.
Thus, you must get back to work. Wishing for and expecting a quick shortcut are not the answers to your problems and especially to improve your quality of life. You must sacrifice and go contrary to what people call success. You must desire it with a burning of fire in your heart. That's how faith is tested in this sense. The system teaches that you can do it if you put all your heart in it for the right reasons with the right intentions to please God. Read more.
Thus, the system teaches you how to overcome and be victorious. It teaches nothing about coveting. I have no knowledge where you got that idea from but rest assured that the critics of Amway are fanatic about that idea!
@Terratonific I can't convince you and I have shared all I can with you about coveting from the Bible not my thoughts. I still have not heard from you on a message that teaches, "Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said..." (Heb 13:5)
You're right, you can't convince me because you are not offering me a better deal than Amway when it comes to business. When it comes to spiritual life, Jesus Christ is the best deal and I have already signed up for it. But your deal on the Bible is twisted beyond perplexity. You can't comprehend what coveting means and can't comprehend that it's not evil or sinful for man desiring more to improve his/her life quality by doing good works. Read more.
When was the last time Jesus Christ commanded that it is wrong for man to overcome his life difficulties? When was the last time that Jesus Christ commanded that desiring a better life is a form of sin? When was the last time that Jesus Christ denied man the opportunity to a better life on grounds of being content with what you have? Being content with what you have means to appreciate what you have but in no form denies acquiring more if desired & done right! HELLO!
This video is eye opening! I would also suggest looking into there teaching. The Bible says that coveting is a sin. They encouraged coveting and even taught me to teach others to covet. I took my downline to drive porcshes and hummers, causing them to sin. You will never hear from the motivators and CD's that we should be satisfied with what we have. You will never hear that we should not desire more than what God has given us.
Well, if you think that you got enough and need nothing extra, good for you! However, there's no commandment from God that we should not ask for what our hearts desire. We are commanded to ask what we desire in faith and will receive by doing so. Please, mind your own business; don't you D.A.R.E, aka 'dare' come to me or to others telling us what we should desire or not, what we should be content with or not, what is sin or not! You're not God and not wise either!
@Terratonific your right, i'm not God & not wise. The Bible does tell us what sin is. Listen to Paul's christian heart as he does not covet, "...I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content." (Phil 4:11). If your not a Christian then coveting is in your nature & seems right in your heart. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jer 17:9). Jesus came to die on the cross for sinners. And with new hearts we are content in Him.
'I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content." (Phil 4:11)'
Yes, I agree, one must be content so to be of a sound mind even in adverse situations. However, there's no commandment that we should not change our circumstances. If let's say, you're homeless, should you be content with that just for the sake of being homeless or should you be content for accepting your momentarily circumstances while actively working towards changing such circumstances?
'If your not a Christian then coveting is in your nature & seems right in your heart.'
1) To covet = desiring to obtain what is not rightfully yours or to obtain what is not yours but rightful to obtain, in a wrong way.
2) To not covet = desiring to obtain what is not yours but rightful to obtain by asking and learning from the person who has what you desire how and what to do to obtain what you desire.
Thus, what are you trying to prove to me about you, your mentality and your current lifestyle? You have what you have as a result of that and I am not interested in following you as a success and as a spiritual role model. Thank you, good bye and good luck!
@Terratonific I'm not trying to prove anything, i'm just concerned for you or anyone that is coveting or desiring more than what they have or desiring in their heart more than what their budget allows. Is it wrong to be content? The Bible actually encourages Christians we be content, whether we have millions or nothing. When Paul wrote "in whatever situation" he meant it, and so should we. Please name 1 Diamond leader that has taught that people should be content.
'i'm just concerned for you or anyone that is coveting or desiring more than what they have'
I have already explained what coveting means and that the Bible gives NO COMMANDMENT for man TO NOT CHANGE or TO NOT IMPROVE his quality of life. So if you think that a homeless man sitting on a frigid day on concrete, his pants torn and freezing his ass off MUST BE CONTENT with his fate and WRONG if he DESIRES MORE than what he has then you must be a REAL IDIOT.
@Terratonific your "explenation" came from your thoughts, not the Bible. You misused Verses like the "Word Of Faith" preachers. What do you say to the homeless people I have met who are Christian & they are content & do not desire riches or a "better" life or to sign up as an IBO for a trip to Hawaii. They, & anyone with any income, have Christ & are taken care of by God in their NEEDS. Amway is legal & great but the teachings cause covetousness. Is there 1 CD or book that teaches contentment?
'What do you say to the homeless people I have met who are Christian & they are content & do not desire riches or a "better" life'
I met people like that and I am baffled by someone telling me that they are 100% content with being cold, dirty, lonely and hungry. They are either mentally unstable or demon possessed. Yet they claim to be Christians. Even Satan does. Now, it is your turn to prove your faith in God as a Christian. Give up all you have today! Ready to?
@Terratonific Christians are never 100% free of sin. A Christian can fall into covetousness but he will always grow away from it. Unlike the world that not only falls but dives into it because of their natural depraved heart. I have already answered your dare to give up all. If $ is an idol for me I will need to repent. What I have repented & apologize to IBOS for is taking them to drive hummers & walk through nice homes to cause them to covet. This is after Christ's cross changed my heart.
Speaking of homeless people, not all of them are like how you described them. What about Robert Kiyosaki? In the 80's he was homeless but he was hungry for a change to become a renewed man. As a result of his desire to overcome his circumstances, he disciplined himself and worked hard to the point where he went from being broke to being a millionaire. Now, I know that you will claim that Robert was coveting and thus sinning so I won't discuss his life story with you.
@Terratonific you right, not all the homeless are content, they are not all Christians. As Christians God has saved us and we are equipped to not covet. Are we 100% free of sin and never covet? No. We can sometimes fall into coveting and sin but a Christian grows in there love for Jesus and their hatred for sin. I hope Robert and everyone in the world becomes a Christian.
So Robert Kiyosaki was coveting and thus sinning because he was desiring more than what he had, was unhappy to live as a cold, dirty, lonely and hungry bum on the street and was worshiping money more than thanking God for living as a dog feeding off the God given garbage bins.So Mac Garcia, here's a challenge for you if you got real balls; contact Robert Kiyosaki and tell him that he is coveting and sinning. I would like to see his reaction to you.
@Terratonific And what GOD are you referring to, precisely?
There have been quite a few, if memory serves.
Is this the God of Western-focussed material wealth, or the God Kulukan who insisted on a daily offering of ripped-open chests and removal of still-beating hearts with obsidian knives to ensure the Sun rose every day? The latter sounds more Amway-friendly to me.
"After being to the meeting I was never a slave neither will I be slaving for another man", your not a business owner, you work for someone else who controls your time and your income, but that's not a slave thats called a CAREER ENJOY!!
@hailusenthegreat Yes, I work for my family, Its called FAMILY BUSINESS, and I do enjoy it. Go ahead, and join up, like I said I was invited to the meeting, I did not go to join this brainwashing going on here. Only fools would join this.
I attended a seminar for the first time after being invited by someone, and the people were jumping up and down and celebrating and promoting this. At the end of the day I walked away with the feeling of being a slave owner if I joined this thing. You basically get people to join your team and slave away for you, They sell this dream by showing u "diamonds" making $250 000 off one check, After being to the meeting I was never a slave neither will I be slaving for another man
@Adriangrosvenor those conferences are so influenced by materialism and show powerpoints of there nice homes and cars and they never teach people how to be content. The Bible says it is wrong to covet and I would agree with you that most of there teachings are filled with showing you their lifestyles and all there $ to try to real and pump you up. If your a Christian you need to be aware or covetousness in your heart that is promoted heavily through the CD's, Books & meetings.
@MACGARCIAcom These people sell dreams and piggy bank off the back's of people who have little education, and a lack of understanding. I went to sit in because a friend invite me, never had I saw so much nonsense. If I was not already successful in my life, it might have swayed me. I can see how people who are looking to make a better life can fall for this scam
@Adriangrosvenor the only problem I see and saw for the 4 years I was involved was all this talk of materials and wealth. The main goal in the "team building" part is building someones "dream" or want. You find their hot button and feed it. Then after they are hipped up you sign them up and plug them into the CD's & books so they too can learn how to pump another person into their "dream". The Bible talks agains seeking possessions and warns of covetousness in the heart.
Amway told me that if I played video games, hung out with my beer drinking buddies who collect unemployment benifits and didn't put any effort into it that i probably won't succeed in this business. Thank god I watched a youtube video of Chris Hansen and listend to my unemployed friends. They set me straight. Now I blame obama and work at dennys for a static income. God bless :D
Unfortunately, Mass Psychology and Human Dynamics is a marginal area of interest that receives little exposure or study. As a result, Cults, Religions, Tribalism and manipulative corporate entities such as Amway can thrive and feed of the mass mindset ignorance and stupidity of those lacking self-awareness and individuality.
nickmaestro, universaltruth8, HistoryHmoobGuy, packleader1215, pjacob2010, kwickstarzux thanks for your observations on Amway. Now it's time to test the veracity of these observations.
Q1) Is your Amway business account open and active?
Q2) Is your Amway business generating consistent volume monthly?
Q3) Is your Amway business team growing monthly?
Q4) Are you actively mentoring your Amway business team?
Q5) Where do you see your Amway business five years from today?
Wow, I actually feel sorry for these people. I may be a skeptic and normally shove companies and people who join them to the side as trivial. But the morality here is decrepit, insensitive, and unjust. What an atrocious display of human nature.The elite dressing up their followers in all this wonderful stuff and promising they will live in bliss, but it turns out that stuff and promise is wishful thinking horseshit. I can only pray that Christ has mercy on the leaders just as much as the lost.
@MACGARCIAcom Yes, I believe in Christ and would call myself a Christian. The way I talk may suggest the opposite. I'm very much an independent thinker. Why do you ask if I'm a Christian? If you want to start a debate, I'll pass. You've built quite the recent reputation based on the comments. I'll reply only once. Make it good.
@nickmaestro I'll make it good then. I would agree with you & would add that it comes back to what the Bible says about coveting. The problem lies within the teaching & all the leaders that promote covetousness. They want you to covet over their homes & cars. What struck me enough to reply to you was your prayer for Christ to save them & you cursing. The way you talk may suggest the opposite, is what you said (James 3:9-12). You might not even be a Christian. Watch "The Shocking Youth Message".
This is a sad thing about American society and these people are all criminals.. Thanks for posting this, hopefully it will open up peoples eyes to seeing the truth of how messed up the American elite can be. And yes they do happen to be white so called christians... and they smile while they spew their lies at you and act like they are your best friend...but in reality they dont give a fuck about you..
keep buying from this lame company and you'll see how will lose stores in our community that benefit our kidz...+ Amway products are Kinda cheap ( diapers) and Super expensive... How can plp buy from Amway if they don't have jobs? Yes plp are responsible for this!!!!
Quixtar is good for one thing: keeping the lemmings busy. If these lemmings were to activate their one brain cell, unemployment would rise!
The typical Quixtar lemming get suited up everyday for 5-10 years, fueled by talk of owning a business and residual income, and makes less money in that time than the lowest paid employee in the ENTIRE Country.
@Terratonific No, No, No, No.... and I see my Amway business in 5 years time in PRECISELY the same position as yours WILL be in. (99.6% statistical probability....a little higher in your case as you INSIST on spending valuable time responding to Internet criticism, rather than focussing on your objectives (can we therefore agree on 99.9% probability of costly failure/disillusionment??)
Because he, not having an Amway business at all, will have exactly as much revenue from his "business" as you will from yours. And because his absence of a business is every bit as much a "business" as is yours.
Isn't it amazing how you've never yet failed to miss the point from a cerebral Amway critic? No matter how clearly they spell it out, it doesn't compute for you. You just don't follow. It makes sense that someone that blind to logic would fall for Amway.
So it turns out this guy in the video passed away a short bit ago, but before he did it was found he never had his own house to his name, less then 20k, and no vehicle... He does look a lot like a grifter. I sat in on Quixstar meetings and I thought it was amazing the people who could fall for it. The numbers are easy to crunch to a pyramid scheme.. Even wikipedia can shed light on the numbers at /pyramidscheme Those who defend it do so with very religious logic. Poor Logic.
I much rather build a team and make money off my friends, than to have a boss looking over your head and milking you for everything your worth, and while the economy goes down Amway goes up, while all the idiots criticizing Amway are being fucked by their boss till they're, Retired, Fired, or dead. Cant stop amways growth it was 2.2B 15 years ago and 10B this year, dont need to go on. We are growing with you, without you, or in spite of you =) Get back to work you should be focusing on ur 401K.
I been in a quixtar IBO and I did not see any succes in this business the only thing i was seeing was that i was getting more and more in debt so thats i decidede to quite because its the speakers dreams not our dreams so i speend more than 2 thousands of dollars in the year of 1994 so quixtar is a very scam thats why i don't belive in all this buisness that our out thier saying that they could change life is not true but think for yourself ever time you pay to go see a speaker talk hes getng rh
Really? It's easy for anyone to say that it's a scam just because that person's results justify her in her own eyes. So you spent over $2000 in 1994 to be a Quixtar IBO and had no results... nice! WAIT! There's a problem here and I just saw it as I was looking back to that 1994 year... For your record, there was no Quixtar in 1994! Quixtar opened up in September of 1999! You definitely have no idea what you're talking about or worse, make things up! Welcome to our critics' club!
Why would he have any incentive to make things up? There are lots of other explanations that are more plausible. For example, he mis-typed or called Amway "Quixtar" to be consistent with the terminology in the video.
Besides, he doesn't have to "make things up". Amway's abysmal reputation speaks for itself, and it is that very reputation that drove the corporation to rename itself "Quixtar" and then "Amway" again in an attempt to obfuscate and hide from it.
Your upline, on the other hand, has tremendous incentive to "make things up" to keep you enrolled despite financial losses, and in fact they do and do so frequently. The first words you hear when you attend the first "seminar" is that at the very least, you'll come out ahead with the tremendous "saving" Amway provides. Frequently recruits are told "30% below what you'd pay at Wal-Mart". That is a patent falsehood, and it's become known as "the little white lie" of Amway.
"I'm a failure. I did CRAP at school. I'm a non-achiever at work. I can't HACK it. I want to find a different WAY. I want to be told there IS a different way! I wanna be exploited by a greedy corporate! ...I want to fall in love with the DREAM not the WORK. I want to be INCLUDED. I need to feel I BELONG......"
@Crashilicious it's more like the Teams and leaders that push Amway. Amway just has products and services. You might not even hear from them unless it's about a new product. The problem lies within the teachings of the diamond leaders and their CD's. As Christians we are taught to be content with what we have. Look at this verse, "Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have..." (Heb 13:5)
But I think it's fair to say that given the Amway/Quixtar documented earnings/attrition stats, "Delusion" is somewhat closer to the mark.
Having said that, the Amway "faithful" are conditioned and indoctrinated to ignore the distinction.
....I have to keep telling myself that posting here is NOT to take issue with mid-churn IBO indoctrinees, but to forwarn and forearm their unfortunate "prospects"
1) Posting here will NOT build your business. You need to develop a mindset that can FOCUS...not waste your time losing arguments to John and myself. Check Upline if you don't believe me!
2) You choose to IGNORE the attrition rate because you know INSIDE that you will not succeed regardless. You have CHOSEN to fall in love with the IDEA, not the f*****g WORK !
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Is Amway's teaching Christian? We can learn a great lesson from Paul's inspired letter to Philemon. He could have told Onesimus (the christian slave) to seek a better life or to "Go Diamond!" but he didn't. Amway teams always use guilt statements & belittle employee positions in their presentation when Paul never looked down upon a slave's employment. He encouraged them to get back to work, not seek "freedom". John the baptist even told a soldier to "...be content with your wages.” Lk 3:14
MACGARCIAcom 1 week ago
I have seen all of this and yes, it is a well organized scam.
mainone65401 2 weeks ago
In response to all critics to think that there's something wrong with being wealthy, yet humble.
"I always knew I was going to be rich. I don't think I ever doubted it for a minute"
- Warren Buffett
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
@Terratonific Is there a single Amway lie, platitude, received wisdom, recycled soundbite, stock-phrase or disingenuous line of Pure Bullshit that you HAVEN'T bought into???
You need Cult detox Buddy. Check out Steve Hassan. He has extensive experience with Amway Borg Replicants...Sorry... I meant "Independent Business Owners"
steveh777ify 3 weeks ago
@steveh777ify
Ping pong.
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
@Terratonific One of your more sensible and intelligent responses, presumably?
steveh777ify 2 weeks ago
@steveh777ify
Pipi... pong?
Terratonific 2 weeks ago
@Terratonific Clever Boy !
steveh777ify 1 week ago
Its so hard for an IBO to get out of this especially with all the $, time, friendships and family they have involved. It is only when one becomes a Christian (with a new heart) that they can recognize the materialisme the leaders promote and encourage. You only have to attend 1 Awmay meeting to hear all the riches and your best life now that you can have.
MACGARCIAcom 3 weeks ago
@MACGARCIAcom
You know what... after this week of ping pong arguing with you, it's obvious, at least to me that you're seriously disturbed in the head pal. You really need to seek professional help and to admit yourself to the mental ward ASAP. You claim to be a Christian?! Based on how you think, talk and act it's clear that you're not!
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
@Terratonific
What exactly about MACGARCIA's thinking, talking, and acting suggests he's not a Christian? Just the fact he's not in Amway? You're the one assaulting his character. He's only criticizing Amway. You're choosing to shoot the messenger rather than face the content of his message. His challenge to you is important and I suggest you face it. It's not about him, just like it's not about me, and it's not about you. It's about Amway. Stop making it personal.
JohnWDB1 3 weeks ago
@JohnWDB1
Pong ping.
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
@Terratonific
"Ping pong" would imply you are devising clever replies to each pointed challenge. Unfortunately, you are only dodging those challenges with shallow, inane quips (see below), ad hominem (see below), obfuscation (see any of your posts), and misdirection. No one here is fooled but you.
JohnWDB1 2 weeks ago
@JohnWDB1
Ping pong.
Terratonific 2 weeks ago
@MACGARCIAcom
Actually, I apologize, I made a mistake; IT'S TWO DAMN WEEKS! Really pal, get help!
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength.You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars"'
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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Terratonific 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
' waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars" '
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength.You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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Here is something you will never here from a leading IBO... “Take care, & be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”Lk 12:15 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have"Heb 13:5 "...I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content."Phil 4:11
MACGARCIAcom 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars" '
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
' The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense. '
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
' You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength.You are wrong. '
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
' waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars" '
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
Amway is such a SCAM they say buy from them and you'll make money nah because people above you make money from you buying scam like a lot of BS is fed to you..
StingLikeAli 3 weeks ago
@StingLikeAli
'people above you make money from you buying scam like a lot of BS is fed to you..'
YES, THEY ARE! Here's my advise to you; stop buying from your local convenience store or for that matter from ANY type of store because guess what... those people who own the stores make money from you buying their shit! You've been brainwashed by them but keep on buying form them! Even today you bought stuff! The cult is unbelievable! Why don't you save your grief then by going on food stamps?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
@Terratonific You are so Right! ...Retail Sucks!
My local shopkeeper took me to one side and offered to make me Rich if I simply convinced friends, family and strangers to shop at his Store at twice the going rate for products....I only had to get a few hundred thousand people to commit to this arrangement... forever. He even offered to sell me a program to show me how this could be done...How could I possibly refuse???
steveh777ify 3 weeks ago
@steveh777ify
He never did that and you know it. But you seem comfortable to keep going to your local convenience store. Do that, it's your money and your choice! I already made my choice and I think I get better value than you do.
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense.'
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength. You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars"'
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnWDB1
'The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense. '
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
Terratonific 4 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength. You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
Terratonific 4 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars"'
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Terratonific 4 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'The truth is, every time Christ talked about money, it was in a negative sense.'
John, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Living God ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate in flesh who came to earth, was crucified for men's sins and rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion?
Terratonific 4 weeks ago
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@JohnWDB1
'You seem to think that righteousness is directly related to strength. You are wrong.'
Your argument is a deception from the Devil. How can a weak man be justified unto righteousness by faith if he lacks faith to begin with? Faith builds strength and in that strength does righteousness shine upon the believer.
Terratonific 4 weeks ago
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'waving your hands and proclaiming it a blessing doesn't make it so--not when the next minute you're boasting of your "4 houses and 32 cars"'
@JohnWDB1
I don't need 4 houses. At this stage I'm not even thinking about a house. I'm thinking about living in a condominium. I don't need 32 cars. I may have 2 or 3 and drive whichever I choose to and if I choose to have my dream car, I can sell the other 2. What is wrong with that?
Terratonific 4 weeks ago
@rbrtcn06IBO your absolutely right that it is legit and the numbers do work if you work it. Here is the problem though, as a Christian, the Bible says we shal not covet. Are you aware there is not 1 message on a CD, book or from the mouth of any (not one) leader that teaches..."Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Heb 13:5
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom Ahh.. but that is where things become based on the individual. Some... maybe even a LOT of people in Amway and just in general, have a Love for money. Which you're right, is a sin according to the bible. But as for me, and as for a lot of others I am sure, it's not a Love of money, its just another way to make money. I see Amway as a possibility to make more than what a job would make me. If I try and fail, so be it: then i'll get a job. BUT... If I succeed... :)
rbrtcn06IBO 1 month ago
@Azer831 It does work and I made some great money and friendships. I even became a Christian at one of their Sunday morning services at one of those big conferences. The teaching though from the cd's, books and meetings teach "though shal covet" when the Bible teaches the total opposite.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
'I have already answered your dare to give up all. If $ is an idol for me I will need to repent.'
Good start. Make sure you also dismantle your website and cancel all the next listed events where you charge people $200 per hour to have them pose for your drawing skills. You definitely made $ your new idol in contrast to your love for Jesus and must repent otherwise you go to Hell.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific what are you talking about? I said that meaning if $ is my idol & God told me to repent I would, by His grace, but $ is not my idol. I am saved now. Money is not a sin just the "love" of $. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs."(1Tim 6:10) Have you heard of a leader talk on contentment?
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
'what are you talking about? I said that meaning if $ is my idol & God told me to repent I would, by His grace, but $ is not my idol.'
Oh! Wait a minute, now we're getting somewhere. If God didn't tell you to repent for charging people an idolatrous $200 per hour for drawing their picture, then why would you assume that I have to repent for charging people a decent $3 per one can of XS energy drink?
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific your going off the deep end now. Entertainment will costs more than an XS drink. And who said you have to repent of charging for a product. Your coming up with way to many stories on your own. The problem is NOT AMWAY or the products and services. I will say it again, Amway is great! The "system" (cd's, books, conferences) teaches that you shal covet! Prove me wrong. Name 1 message or book that teaches on contentment. I was in it for 4 yrs and not one message like that.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
'your going off the deep end now.'
Join me then to fully understand me!
'The problem is NOT AMWAY or the products and services. I will say it again, Amway is great!'
Unfortunately the critics will disagree with you 100%. Wait until you wake them up!
'The "system" (cd's, books, conferences) teaches that you shal covet!'
I never came across one such teaching. The system teaches that you must overcome, work hard and be disciplined to reach your goals. To be continued.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific the critics dismiss clear understanding of a free enterprise and that AMWAY is a legal MLM no scam unless they were promised something without them working. You still have not answered my question and it seems your reading it the way you want. Tell me, "Name 1 message or book that teaches on contentment?" or that teach this, "Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have..." Heb 13:5. You will have to admit with no answer that they never teach that.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
The business is simple but people are complex. Many people expect to make quick riches the right way but that is not the case in real life. Riches eventually come with hard work and the right kind of work in God's eyes. Those riches don't come by means of coveting; quick riches usually do. Yet it's not all about monetary riches; desiring to spend more quality time with family is a different type of riches. But how can you if you lack the money to pay for? Read more.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific "And he said to them, “Take care, & be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” Lk 12:15 We are to guard against seeking riches. Here is 1 way you can seek quality time in a God honoring way... give up one of your cars, move to a smaller home, stop the cable, internet etc. and then a mom can stay home. You don't have to tempt others to gain your dream. Be content in what u have.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
If your goal is let's say to spend quality time with family, go to more trips, forget about winter, get rid of your boss and reclaim your quality of life and finances, be able to donate to the needy what you desire versus what you're limited by your hourly wage job, drive a nicer, better car and much more; those things can only be accomplished by working hard through dedication and discipline with faith. Those things won't just come out of the blue. Read more.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
Thus, you must get back to work. Wishing for and expecting a quick shortcut are not the answers to your problems and especially to improve your quality of life. You must sacrifice and go contrary to what people call success. You must desire it with a burning of fire in your heart. That's how faith is tested in this sense. The system teaches that you can do it if you put all your heart in it for the right reasons with the right intentions to please God. Read more.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
Thus, the system teaches you how to overcome and be victorious. It teaches nothing about coveting. I have no knowledge where you got that idea from but rest assured that the critics of Amway are fanatic about that idea!
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific I can't convince you and I have shared all I can with you about coveting from the Bible not my thoughts. I still have not heard from you on a message that teaches, "Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said..." (Heb 13:5)
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
You're right, you can't convince me because you are not offering me a better deal than Amway when it comes to business. When it comes to spiritual life, Jesus Christ is the best deal and I have already signed up for it. But your deal on the Bible is twisted beyond perplexity. You can't comprehend what coveting means and can't comprehend that it's not evil or sinful for man desiring more to improve his/her life quality by doing good works. Read more.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
When was the last time Jesus Christ commanded that it is wrong for man to overcome his life difficulties? When was the last time that Jesus Christ commanded that desiring a better life is a form of sin? When was the last time that Jesus Christ denied man the opportunity to a better life on grounds of being content with what you have? Being content with what you have means to appreciate what you have but in no form denies acquiring more if desired & done right! HELLO!
Terratonific 1 month ago
This video is eye opening! I would also suggest looking into there teaching. The Bible says that coveting is a sin. They encouraged coveting and even taught me to teach others to covet. I took my downline to drive porcshes and hummers, causing them to sin. You will never hear from the motivators and CD's that we should be satisfied with what we have. You will never hear that we should not desire more than what God has given us.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
Well, if you think that you got enough and need nothing extra, good for you! However, there's no commandment from God that we should not ask for what our hearts desire. We are commanded to ask what we desire in faith and will receive by doing so. Please, mind your own business; don't you D.A.R.E, aka 'dare' come to me or to others telling us what we should desire or not, what we should be content with or not, what is sin or not! You're not God and not wise either!
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific your right, i'm not God & not wise. The Bible does tell us what sin is. Listen to Paul's christian heart as he does not covet, "...I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content." (Phil 4:11). If your not a Christian then coveting is in your nature & seems right in your heart. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jer 17:9). Jesus came to die on the cross for sinners. And with new hearts we are content in Him.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
'I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content." (Phil 4:11)'
Yes, I agree, one must be content so to be of a sound mind even in adverse situations. However, there's no commandment that we should not change our circumstances. If let's say, you're homeless, should you be content with that just for the sake of being homeless or should you be content for accepting your momentarily circumstances while actively working towards changing such circumstances?
Terratonific 1 month ago
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@MACGARCIAcom
'If your not a Christian then coveting is in your nature & seems right in your heart.'
1) To covet = desiring to obtain what is not rightfully yours or to obtain what is not yours but rightful to obtain, in a wrong way.
2) To not covet = desiring to obtain what is not yours but rightful to obtain by asking and learning from the person who has what you desire how and what to do to obtain what you desire.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
'your right, i'm not God & not wise.'
Thus, what are you trying to prove to me about you, your mentality and your current lifestyle? You have what you have as a result of that and I am not interested in following you as a success and as a spiritual role model. Thank you, good bye and good luck!
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific I'm not trying to prove anything, i'm just concerned for you or anyone that is coveting or desiring more than what they have or desiring in their heart more than what their budget allows. Is it wrong to be content? The Bible actually encourages Christians we be content, whether we have millions or nothing. When Paul wrote "in whatever situation" he meant it, and so should we. Please name 1 Diamond leader that has taught that people should be content.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
'i'm just concerned for you or anyone that is coveting or desiring more than what they have'
I have already explained what coveting means and that the Bible gives NO COMMANDMENT for man TO NOT CHANGE or TO NOT IMPROVE his quality of life. So if you think that a homeless man sitting on a frigid day on concrete, his pants torn and freezing his ass off MUST BE CONTENT with his fate and WRONG if he DESIRES MORE than what he has then you must be a REAL IDIOT.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific your "explenation" came from your thoughts, not the Bible. You misused Verses like the "Word Of Faith" preachers. What do you say to the homeless people I have met who are Christian & they are content & do not desire riches or a "better" life or to sign up as an IBO for a trip to Hawaii. They, & anyone with any income, have Christ & are taken care of by God in their NEEDS. Amway is legal & great but the teachings cause covetousness. Is there 1 CD or book that teaches contentment?
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
'What do you say to the homeless people I have met who are Christian & they are content & do not desire riches or a "better" life'
I met people like that and I am baffled by someone telling me that they are 100% content with being cold, dirty, lonely and hungry. They are either mentally unstable or demon possessed. Yet they claim to be Christians. Even Satan does. Now, it is your turn to prove your faith in God as a Christian. Give up all you have today! Ready to?
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific Christians are never 100% free of sin. A Christian can fall into covetousness but he will always grow away from it. Unlike the world that not only falls but dives into it because of their natural depraved heart. I have already answered your dare to give up all. If $ is an idol for me I will need to repent. What I have repented & apologize to IBOS for is taking them to drive hummers & walk through nice homes to cause them to covet. This is after Christ's cross changed my heart.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
Speaking of homeless people, not all of them are like how you described them. What about Robert Kiyosaki? In the 80's he was homeless but he was hungry for a change to become a renewed man. As a result of his desire to overcome his circumstances, he disciplined himself and worked hard to the point where he went from being broke to being a millionaire. Now, I know that you will claim that Robert was coveting and thus sinning so I won't discuss his life story with you.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific you right, not all the homeless are content, they are not all Christians. As Christians God has saved us and we are equipped to not covet. Are we 100% free of sin and never covet? No. We can sometimes fall into coveting and sin but a Christian grows in there love for Jesus and their hatred for sin. I hope Robert and everyone in the world becomes a Christian.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom
So Robert Kiyosaki was coveting and thus sinning because he was desiring more than what he had, was unhappy to live as a cold, dirty, lonely and hungry bum on the street and was worshiping money more than thanking God for living as a dog feeding off the God given garbage bins.So Mac Garcia, here's a challenge for you if you got real balls; contact Robert Kiyosaki and tell him that he is coveting and sinning. I would like to see his reaction to you.
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific Iv'e read his books and he is a nice guy but if he is not a Christian all he does is sin and will be judged by God and punished.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@Terratonific And what GOD are you referring to, precisely?
There have been quite a few, if memory serves.
Is this the God of Western-focussed material wealth, or the God Kulukan who insisted on a daily offering of ripped-open chests and removal of still-beating hearts with obsidian knives to ensure the Sun rose every day? The latter sounds more Amway-friendly to me.
Please feel free to clarify.
steveh777ify 4 weeks ago
@steveh777ify
Of course Steve! Here's what I have to clarify to you; HAVE A NICE DAY BUDDY!
Terratonific 4 weeks ago
@Terratonific You Too Bucko !
steveh777ify 4 weeks ago
I can do no better than to refer Pro-Amway IBO cult-assimilatees to a couple of old films that should give them pause for thought:
1) Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (The Child-Catcher bit)
2) Pinnocchio (original Disney version) The Pleasure-Island bit (NOT Peter Island)
I'll say no more for now.
steveh777ify 1 month ago
@steveh777ify
So, you love to chitty chitty bang bang my dear?
Terratonific 1 month ago
FUCK AMWAY !!!!!
fuckmania07 1 month ago
"After being to the meeting I was never a slave neither will I be slaving for another man", your not a business owner, you work for someone else who controls your time and your income, but that's not a slave thats called a CAREER ENJOY!!
hailusenthegreat 1 month ago
@hailusenthegreat Yes, I work for my family, Its called FAMILY BUSINESS, and I do enjoy it. Go ahead, and join up, like I said I was invited to the meeting, I did not go to join this brainwashing going on here. Only fools would join this.
Adriangrosvenor 1 month ago
I attended a seminar for the first time after being invited by someone, and the people were jumping up and down and celebrating and promoting this. At the end of the day I walked away with the feeling of being a slave owner if I joined this thing. You basically get people to join your team and slave away for you, They sell this dream by showing u "diamonds" making $250 000 off one check, After being to the meeting I was never a slave neither will I be slaving for another man
Adriangrosvenor 1 month ago 2
@Adriangrosvenor those conferences are so influenced by materialism and show powerpoints of there nice homes and cars and they never teach people how to be content. The Bible says it is wrong to covet and I would agree with you that most of there teachings are filled with showing you their lifestyles and all there $ to try to real and pump you up. If your a Christian you need to be aware or covetousness in your heart that is promoted heavily through the CD's, Books & meetings.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom These people sell dreams and piggy bank off the back's of people who have little education, and a lack of understanding. I went to sit in because a friend invite me, never had I saw so much nonsense. If I was not already successful in my life, it might have swayed me. I can see how people who are looking to make a better life can fall for this scam
Adriangrosvenor 1 month ago
@Adriangrosvenor the only problem I see and saw for the 4 years I was involved was all this talk of materials and wealth. The main goal in the "team building" part is building someones "dream" or want. You find their hot button and feed it. Then after they are hipped up you sign them up and plug them into the CD's & books so they too can learn how to pump another person into their "dream". The Bible talks agains seeking possessions and warns of covetousness in the heart.
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
Amway told me that if I played video games, hung out with my beer drinking buddies who collect unemployment benifits and didn't put any effort into it that i probably won't succeed in this business. Thank god I watched a youtube video of Chris Hansen and listend to my unemployed friends. They set me straight. Now I blame obama and work at dennys for a static income. God bless :D
PokerorDie 2 months ago
@PokerorDie
You rock dude! I'm with you on that one! But, I went one step further... I blame the Universe for my misfortunes :) See you on Peter Island!
Terratonific 2 months ago
I bet Chris Hanson thought he was going to find child molesters in that huge convention
DrSurprise 2 months ago 2
Unfortunately, Mass Psychology and Human Dynamics is a marginal area of interest that receives little exposure or study. As a result, Cults, Religions, Tribalism and manipulative corporate entities such as Amway can thrive and feed of the mass mindset ignorance and stupidity of those lacking self-awareness and individuality.
Such a Waste of Human Potential.
steveh777ify 2 months ago
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nickmaestro, universaltruth8, HistoryHmoobGuy, packleader1215, pjacob2010, kwickstarzux thanks for your observations on Amway. Now it's time to test the veracity of these observations.
Q1) Is your Amway business account open and active?
Q2) Is your Amway business generating consistent volume monthly?
Q3) Is your Amway business team growing monthly?
Q4) Are you actively mentoring your Amway business team?
Q5) Where do you see your Amway business five years from today?
Terratonific 2 months ago
Wow, I actually feel sorry for these people. I may be a skeptic and normally shove companies and people who join them to the side as trivial. But the morality here is decrepit, insensitive, and unjust. What an atrocious display of human nature.The elite dressing up their followers in all this wonderful stuff and promising they will live in bliss, but it turns out that stuff and promise is wishful thinking horseshit. I can only pray that Christ has mercy on the leaders just as much as the lost.
nickmaestro 2 months ago
@nickmaestro are you a Christian?
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
@MACGARCIAcom Yes, I believe in Christ and would call myself a Christian. The way I talk may suggest the opposite. I'm very much an independent thinker. Why do you ask if I'm a Christian? If you want to start a debate, I'll pass. You've built quite the recent reputation based on the comments. I'll reply only once. Make it good.
nickmaestro 1 month ago
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@nickmaestro I'll make it good then. I would agree with you & would add that it comes back to what the Bible says about coveting. The problem lies within the teaching & all the leaders that promote covetousness. They want you to covet over their homes & cars. What struck me enough to reply to you was your prayer for Christ to save them & you cursing. The way you talk may suggest the opposite, is what you said (James 3:9-12). You might not even be a Christian. Watch "The Shocking Youth Message".
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
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nickmaestro 2 months ago
that one guy was crying .... hahahaha thats comedy i bet he feels stupid after he saw that shit dont work and got out of it..
universaltruth8 2 months ago
This is a sad thing about American society and these people are all criminals.. Thanks for posting this, hopefully it will open up peoples eyes to seeing the truth of how messed up the American elite can be. And yes they do happen to be white so called christians... and they smile while they spew their lies at you and act like they are your best friend...but in reality they dont give a fuck about you..
universaltruth8 2 months ago
NEVER TRUST WHITE PEOPLE !!! PERIOD !!!
HistoryHmoobGuy 2 months ago
@HistoryHmoobGuy lol
TheChilltown 2 months ago
It's messed up because they got a preacher screwing it up. NEVER involve church with the general population.
packleader1215 2 months ago
HO HO FREEDOM! LOL so stupid what idiots there is other ways to make residual income
pjacob2010 2 months ago
@pjacob2010 lmao that had me cracking up
Adriangrosvenor 1 month ago
keep buying from this lame company and you'll see how will lose stores in our community that benefit our kidz...+ Amway products are Kinda cheap ( diapers) and Super expensive... How can plp buy from Amway if they don't have jobs? Yes plp are responsible for this!!!!
jaimegmc 2 months ago
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@jaimegmc
'keep buying from this lame company and you'll see how will lose stores in our community that benefit our kidz' - jaimegmc
Alas, it's time for rebirth and rejuvenation, don't you think?
Terratonific 2 months ago
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Quixtar is good for one thing: keeping the lemmings busy. If these lemmings were to activate their one brain cell, unemployment would rise!
The typical Quixtar lemming get suited up everyday for 5-10 years, fueled by talk of owning a business and residual income, and makes less money in that time than the lowest paid employee in the ENTIRE Country.
kwickstarzux 3 months ago
Oh. I almost forgot.
"Birdie Yager speaks to Amway" here on You Tube.
....If you ignore these gentle hints then you deserve to be ritually b**t f****d by the vilest Corporation infesting this Planet.
steveh777ify 3 months ago
Due diligence references for the pitifully assimilated and Cult Victim IBO :
1) "Marketing group merely selling a dream" (refers to Amway being banned in UK .Google reference)
2) Merchants of Deception by former Emerald Eric Scheibeler. Free as a PDF download.
...Any further questions??
steveh777ify 3 months ago
@steveh777ify
'...Any further questions??' - steveh777ify
YES! There are.
Q1) Is your Amway business account open and active?
Q2) Is your Amway business generating consistent volume monthly?
Q3) Is your Amway business team growing monthly?
Q4) Are you actively mentoring your Amway business team?
Q5) Where do you see your Amway business five years from today?
Terratonific 3 months ago
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steveh777ify 3 months ago
@Terratonific No, No, No, No.... and I see my Amway business in 5 years time in PRECISELY the same position as yours WILL be in. (99.6% statistical probability....a little higher in your case as you INSIST on spending valuable time responding to Internet criticism, rather than focussing on your objectives (can we therefore agree on 99.9% probability of costly failure/disillusionment??)
...Hope this clarifies.
If not, feel free to "check Upline"
steveh777ify 3 months ago
@steveh777ify
How can you possibly see your Amway business in 5 years time in precisely the same position as mine when your answer to Q1 was a resounding 'NO'?
Terratonific 2 months ago
@Terratonific
Because he, not having an Amway business at all, will have exactly as much revenue from his "business" as you will from yours. And because his absence of a business is every bit as much a "business" as is yours.
Isn't it amazing how you've never yet failed to miss the point from a cerebral Amway critic? No matter how clearly they spell it out, it doesn't compute for you. You just don't follow. It makes sense that someone that blind to logic would fall for Amway.
JohnWDB1 2 months ago
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@JohnWDB1
'Because he, not having an Amway business at all, will have exactly as much revenue from his "business" as you will from yours.' - JohnWDB1
How can he possibly see his Amway business in 5 years time in precisely the same position as mine when his answer to Q1 was a resounding 'NO'?
Terratonific 2 months ago
So it turns out this guy in the video passed away a short bit ago, but before he did it was found he never had his own house to his name, less then 20k, and no vehicle... He does look a lot like a grifter. I sat in on Quixstar meetings and I thought it was amazing the people who could fall for it. The numbers are easy to crunch to a pyramid scheme.. Even wikipedia can shed light on the numbers at /pyramidscheme Those who defend it do so with very religious logic. Poor Logic.
CenaxKikia 3 months ago
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I much rather build a team and make money off my friends, than to have a boss looking over your head and milking you for everything your worth, and while the economy goes down Amway goes up, while all the idiots criticizing Amway are being fucked by their boss till they're, Retired, Fired, or dead. Cant stop amways growth it was 2.2B 15 years ago and 10B this year, dont need to go on. We are growing with you, without you, or in spite of you =) Get back to work you should be focusing on ur 401K.
drewnessxd 3 months ago
I been in a quixtar IBO and I did not see any succes in this business the only thing i was seeing was that i was getting more and more in debt so thats i decidede to quite because its the speakers dreams not our dreams so i speend more than 2 thousands of dollars in the year of 1994 so quixtar is a very scam thats why i don't belive in all this buisness that our out thier saying that they could change life is not true but think for yourself ever time you pay to go see a speaker talk hes getng rh
pelon1255 3 months ago
@pelon1255
Really? It's easy for anyone to say that it's a scam just because that person's results justify her in her own eyes. So you spent over $2000 in 1994 to be a Quixtar IBO and had no results... nice! WAIT! There's a problem here and I just saw it as I was looking back to that 1994 year... For your record, there was no Quixtar in 1994! Quixtar opened up in September of 1999! You definitely have no idea what you're talking about or worse, make things up! Welcome to our critics' club!
Terratonific 3 months ago
@Terratonific
Why would he have any incentive to make things up? There are lots of other explanations that are more plausible. For example, he mis-typed or called Amway "Quixtar" to be consistent with the terminology in the video.
Besides, he doesn't have to "make things up". Amway's abysmal reputation speaks for itself, and it is that very reputation that drove the corporation to rename itself "Quixtar" and then "Amway" again in an attempt to obfuscate and hide from it.
JohnWDB1 3 months ago 2
@Terratonific
Your upline, on the other hand, has tremendous incentive to "make things up" to keep you enrolled despite financial losses, and in fact they do and do so frequently. The first words you hear when you attend the first "seminar" is that at the very least, you'll come out ahead with the tremendous "saving" Amway provides. Frequently recruits are told "30% below what you'd pay at Wal-Mart". That is a patent falsehood, and it's become known as "the little white lie" of Amway.
JohnWDB1 3 months ago 2
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Why Amway is an awesome opportunity for you
h t t p://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/
Terratonific 3 months ago
scam ????????????
angelboy892 3 months ago
@angelboy892 Yes ... read Merchants of Deception (available in free PDF format).
Run away from that cult ... fast!
perrrob 3 months ago
Look at the video I made of Amway. It is hella Funny
imperialvision 4 months ago 2
My family was nearly financially ruined by this organization.
beavis408 4 months ago 2
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@beavis408
Why Amway is an awesome opportunity for you
h t t p://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/
Terratonific 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why Amway is an awesome opportunity for you
h t t p://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/
Terratonific 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why Amway is an awesome opportunity for you
h t t p://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/
Terratonific 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why Amway is an awesome opportunity for you
h t t p://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/
Terratonific 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why Amway is an awesome opportunity for you
h t t p://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/
Terratonific 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why Amway is an awesome opportunity for you
h t t p://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/
Terratonific 4 months ago
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Terratonific 4 months ago
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@steveh777ify
'Keep "the Faith" Buddy. .... My Work Here Is Finished !' - steveh777ify
Thank you Satan! Jesus Christ has conquered you at The Cross! Amen!
Terratonific 4 months ago
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Terratonific 4 months ago
To summarise:
"I'm prime fodder for CULT ASSIMILATION"
...Any questions?
steveh777ify 4 months ago 2
Oooooh Ahhhhh...Flush that stinkin' JOB !
subtext:
"I'm a failure. I did CRAP at school. I'm a non-achiever at work. I can't HACK it. I want to find a different WAY. I want to be told there IS a different way! I wanna be exploited by a greedy corporate! ...I want to fall in love with the DREAM not the WORK. I want to be INCLUDED. I need to feel I BELONG......"
(...and so on and so forth)
steveh777ify 4 months ago 2
@steveh777ify
lol
admiralsnipe 3 months ago
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Terratonific 4 months ago
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Ironically, I always come back to this video.
Amway does nothing but destroy families and their economy.
Crashilicious 4 months ago 2
@Crashilicious it's more like the Teams and leaders that push Amway. Amway just has products and services. You might not even hear from them unless it's about a new product. The problem lies within the teachings of the diamond leaders and their CD's. As Christians we are taught to be content with what we have. Look at this verse, "Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have..." (Heb 13:5)
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
Ironically, I always come back to this video.
Amway does nothing but destroy families and their economy.
Crashilicious 4 months ago
@Crashilicious Well said !
steveh777ify 4 months ago
OK, Fine. No Problemo Buddy. I hear you.
Just to clarify though:
Does "success being in the eye of the beholder" mean you are earning Nah Doo Dah (aka Zippo)
Does not believing those stories mean you are simply in denial?
Does believing in You isolate yourself from wider realities?
Does "following the system" mean denying your own self?
steveh777ify 5 months ago
@steveh777ify
Faith manages.
Terratonific 5 months ago
@Terratonific ....And that's PRECISELY what the Amway Motivation Groups want you to believe.
Keep "the Faith" Buddy. ....My Work Here Is Finished !
steveh777ify 5 months ago
@steveh777ify
Faith is belief in something in spite of insufficient evidence. Delusion is belief in something in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Now you tell me, steve, would belief in Amway fall under the definition for "faith" or "delusion"?
JohnWDB1 5 months ago
@JohnWDB1 That's not even a question John !
But I think it's fair to say that given the Amway/Quixtar documented earnings/attrition stats, "Delusion" is somewhat closer to the mark.
Having said that, the Amway "faithful" are conditioned and indoctrinated to ignore the distinction.
....I have to keep telling myself that posting here is NOT to take issue with mid-churn IBO indoctrinees, but to forwarn and forearm their unfortunate "prospects"
Keep the Faith Buddy !
steveh777ify 4 months ago
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Terratonific 4 months ago
ps. I still Respect You. This is called Tough Love, Buddy.
steveh777ify 5 months ago
...to elaborate:
1) Posting here will NOT build your business. You need to develop a mindset that can FOCUS...not waste your time losing arguments to John and myself. Check Upline if you don't believe me!
2) You choose to IGNORE the attrition rate because you know INSIDE that you will not succeed regardless. You have CHOSEN to fall in love with the IDEA, not the f*****g WORK !
..Now tell me I'm wrong !
steveh777ify 5 months ago