Hitchens v. D'Souza - Jones County, Mississippi (Full Debate 13/13)

[BigLundi]

Whilst I would never enter in a diatribe of calling the last questioner a...dyke...for her answer, I would call it a rather inaccurate answer, as Hitchens noted, in regards to the question actually proposed.

Truthfully I find it puzzling that people consider it some sort of given moral stance that leading people to Jesus is in some way intrinsically a good thing.

When I see statements like, "I am a willing slave to Christ" or "I am a voluntary child to Christ" I don't...find...this...moral

[sgunsgun2]

I don't quite understand how women can derive their faith from a book that treats them so harshly, and contains many misogynistic elements. Ironic, the lady at the end trying to defend her religion.

[risingsun08107]

Dinesh said, If there's no god, why not rape, murder, commit genocide, use up Earth's resources and so on? Answer: life would quickly become "nasty brutish and short." We strive to live by compassion, tolerance, justice and sustainability because only these values lend themselves to creating a more stable, happy and harmonious society. Natural selection would wipe out civilizations that attempted to live by lesser values. So actually, his evolutionary explanation is backwards I think.

[Bergelmer123]

"God" I hate the reasoning that we have to have a purpose. We are all equally worthless or meaningfull.

[880330145789]

good discussion... one of the better more balanced debates i have seen on youtube with hitchens..

[zapopaul]

wrong christopher!what you should have said is:"I can not give you any consolation at this time,your child will die and it is not within my power to stop this,he is not going to heaven,he is just going to die and you'll never see him again. However,we,through our scientific method are incessantly working to solve this problem, and I am confident that there will come a time when will have a cure for cancer and had we not have been 'blessed' with christianity I probably would have had a cure now."

[TheMuscleShark]

Its like saying that george washington was a racist because he had slaves.... wait, he was a racist., just like all religious people are morons.

[writersblock26]

@TheMuscleShark I'm sorry, but your analogy just doesn't hold.

[jrtakesthesky27]

Thanks PhilosophyF for the posts of this debate. I sure do love watching Hitchens tell it like it is.

[BillKiernan]

"in a darwinian sense you can ask "why should i care about other generations?"" um, survival of the speicies, propagation of ones line, fail.

[kaunaskas]

Mr. Hitchens still cannot see that as hard as he tries God provided for him an equivalent argument calling him to the light of hope, joy and peace that is not non-violence, but absolute reconciliation (shalom ameti)

[pwismyname]

The clapping and cheering after the last question shows how indifferent Christians are to all but their own. As a former Christian, I had unfair justifications for all the people of other religions and atheists who are clearly destined for hell under Christianity: "God has a special place for them" or "God's ways must not be questioned." As an atheist, my question now: "What became of the souls of the billions that lived BEFORE Christianity was even around?" God/Jesus was unfair. No?

[pwismyname]

I could be mistaken, but does it seem to the rational thinker that Christians avoid these questions (among many others) because most of them want heaven so bad that they REFUSE to just LET GO. Usually, the afterlife aspect of religion becomes so sensitive for them to debate that they force themselves to not rationally question religion/faith as a result. After all, anyone who KNOWS there's an afterlife is a liar. Sorry.

[kaunaskas]

What's fair? How do you know? Who told you?

[pillsareyummy]

That last question was just silly, silly, silly....

[bekka1969]

Dinesh D'Souza is utterly ridiculous! Think people!

[kramdoog]

I'm am yet to hear any of the many "believers" answer the bloody question. The only thing worse than there being no god is if there were, because god is not very good at being god, the all loving god. I'm pretty sure I could do a much better job should I hold the position and POWER. I'm available.

[AlRasuwl]

I have an answer to his moral act/thought question.

A believer can do a good thing despite wanting to do the bad thing even though they are 100% certain that they will not get caught during their lifetime ;-)

[findelkind666]

Great how he replied to the last statement from that womrn

[retardedsister]

D'Souza kind of reminds me of Flanders from Simpsons... annoying

[IMAGINE5677]

Last question? What an arrogant stupid religious answer by a religious dyke!

[mollkatles]

@IMAGINE5677 - Seriously? at 32 years old that is the smartest thing you could come up with to offer to the conversation? You tried really hard, but nothing smarter would pour from your brain? Don't take this the wrong way, there's a pretty good chance you are retarded, you should have a doctor look at that for you

Still, in my estimation, after viewing many comments from atheists, you might be the smartest atheist on the planet - kudos on that, I guess

[Foulacy]

as someone who has friends from all sides of the spectrum, it is painfully obvious to me that my religious friends care MUCH less about the wellbeing of the earth or even of their other friends. and why should they? they KNOW they are going to heaven, so who cares what happens to the environment.

[Gwisss]

LoL

The question at 7:45 doesn't answer The Hitchen's Challenge but humorously enough, it does give an answer to The Hitchen's follow up challenge.

Name an immoral action that can be done only by believers because God is on there side.

Christians are seemingly only happy to know that if people don't believe their views then those people are bound for hell, an ever lasting torture. How immoral can a human possibly get?(rhetorical question)

[Samuelthemule]

oh come on, be more simplistic.

[Gwisss]

oh come on, make your comment more comprehensible.

[Samuelthemule]

That christians are only happy when everyone is hellbound.

Nevermind that dante practically invented hell, you seem to be talking either out of your rear end, or about people who only profess to be 'christians' (who have no real understanding of the term) to judge others.

You know, sensationalist nonsense gets old after a while.

[Gwisss]

"Christian (who have no real understanding of the term)"

Very good "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy.

"dante practically invented hell"

All of religion is a man made invention, but this is not the point. Hell is a very real place to a child growing up in a Christian household, and a significant percentage of Christians today are under the belief that "people who deny Christ are going to hell". Take the Questioner as an example.

[jeremyshambles]

cont... Its evil too, because dinesh is smart enough to realize the absurdity in this but i feel he has financially influenced alterior motives.(go figure) very despicable i must say. Mr.Hitchens was brilliant as always, thanks for sharing these videos, cheers

[jayangie69]

woot woot im going to hell :)

[VarialProductions]

Am I the only one who doesn't quite "Get" the whole died on the cross thing?

I mean... I really simply don't understand whats going on?

If I just said yes to this I'd be agreeing to... I don't even know!

Fuck, Religion is RIDICULLOOOUUSSS!!!!!!

[Nades129]

Well as a catholic, I remembered he died for our sins. The one that adam and eve commited, which fuckin dont exist.

So he died for nothing, so christians now profit from that death

[recain]

great debate, nice job by both men.

[GordonMorrice]

And King has enjoyed his life even in the face of progressing severse near-sightedness and what seems to be blindness.

[Matt6554]

Ive seen the series and rather than rant I have to paraphrase Dawkins... "If you're an apologist and you're invited to debate Hitchens.....just...don't."

[adknerr]

What a joke, it's not the ONLY thing that Christianty requires is to believe that the son of God died on the cross to forgive our sins... it's all of the other things that you must follow, all contained in the same book that has the ONLY 'evidence' of the first thing actually happening. Unfortunately it says 'slavery is ok', 'be complacent with mentration, 'god wants you to hate gays', and the best 'genocide is ok if god says so'.

These are the things that affect me and I'm forced to resist it.

[Sideways0J]

While I think D'Souza is definitely a weasle in many instances, one thing that I always cringe at in these debates is when Hitchens misses the point about the Theistic claim that an inherent sense of morality in humans is evidence of the divine.

D'Sousa is kind of sneaky IMO in conflating a *sense* of right and wrong with Morality, and claiming that because the *latter* can't be "from nature" there is a mystery to solve.

[Sideways0J]

Or, more to the point, there is no mystery really -- it's just that God put it in us.

[Nades129]

LOL. did anyone hear that. While Dsouza was talking. Hitchens: "Dear lord"

Haha. Dinesh needs to polish his apologetics

[jeremyshambles]

yeah, at 6:04, i was getting a bit nauseated as well listening to dinesh explaining that even manson can get into heaven if he just closes his eyes and mutters some words to an invisible chap. So what hes essentially teaching the younger christians is that you can go crazy and commit whatever depraved atrocities whilst alive on earth and still go to heaven as long as you recite some drivel to a voice in your head.

[Valelacerte]

Grrrrr! D'Souza is just a suited salesman, isn't he?! "What has Atheism to offer me?" he says, in the midst of his hypothetical trauma, "What packages and discounts are available?". An Atheist might tell him "but it's the truth, when a body is terminally ill, it dies."; "But that's not good enough!" retorts D'Souza, "I'm in pain, make it all go away. Christianity offers a much more attractive package, quote me happy!".

What a delusional coward D'Souza is.

[biergutgutlol]

i am infuriated by the sheer stupidity of that nutjob d'souza

[gerbs96]

I thought for sure that Hitchens would follow D'Souza's Moral Jesus rant with C.S. Lewis's analysis on the matter from pages 40-41 in 'Mere Christianity', where Lewis states that the one thing we mustn't say about the Nazarene is that his teaching are moral.

[Perrine234]

The last question was from a single-IQ retaded Christian cuntservative bigot.

[carryall69]

it becomes clearer and clearer from debate to debate, that religious people are dishonest in lots of ways. it's shocking. they are so willing to block rational thinking, one must ask oneself, how to avoid them. i start feeling paranoid and consider them more and more as evil.. they are not truthful at all. immoral indeed.. hitchens has turned me from an atheist into an antitheist, really..

[Valelacerte]

I agree with you, carryall69: religion is evil. Being with a religious person while they are ranting scripture is rather like lending a sympathetic ear to a homeless drunk: it is sad and disturbing and one wonders if they can be trusted to behave appropriately and not do something crazy.

[tookaysevon]

D'Souza's explanation for life on earth is so pathetic it's nearly funny... :

It was a very unlikely thing to happen, there must've been a cause, therefore it's God! (While we are at it we are going to assume it's the God of the new testament ) Voila!

[Jakeblood240]

Case in point, that girl wasted the last question on the exhausted, "...what's the point of life?" Mr. Atheist.

Total agreement, that is hard to suffer. She ignores the debate and like I've charged some here, engages a sophomoric question that has been debated already, thoroughly I might add. Total concession.

Her obvious disconnect with the reality of the evening does not, however, make great impact on belief, in either direction.

She's an insufferable person, not a thoughtless believer.

[Jakeblood240]

No, your correct. No religious people have ever engaged such enlightened thought experiment. They're born sheep who just can't stand the thought of life without their delusions, incapable of critical thought.

Appears self-serving honestly. Do you really believe that? Your superior intellect has set YOU free and the obvious frontal lobe malfunction of EVERYONE else whose ever believed in God, throughout history, is the clear explanation?

I know it makes people feel good but, come on.

[PhilosophyF]

Do I believe that? No.

I guess I'll just leave you to your diatribe. Enjoy.

Thanks for watching.

[Jakeblood240]

Well thank you for being reasonable in that regard.

Honestly, a sincere thank you for posting. I mean it. I enjoy the debates very much.

I think I made it clear how I feel about the rest of it, lol.

[F33bs]

"They're born sheep"

Hmm. An unequivocal statement about someones inherent faculties.

Sounds religious to me.

[Jakeblood240]

Sorry, your actually all geniuses who have the superior mental power to break the simple minded moronic mold of religious thought.

Wow. How can I ever shed such childish belief?

Wait! wait! Would if God was made of spaghetti?! Oh my spaghetti...I've never saw it that way before, the profundity!

I'm finally free! Thank you atheist YouTubers!

[Jakeblood240]

I love how you all bow to the greatness of Hitchens and call everyone who dares to disagree "brainwashed' and moronic.

You're all such severe sycophants you can't even admit plenty of really smart people throughout history believed in God, a monotheistic one at that. Yet, you all sweep them all away with one hand as "mere morons". Sorry if the YouTube community calling every one of these great thinkers stupid, less than persuading.

[PhilosophyF]

So, the atheistic community that does acknowledge very bright people who have been religion, but still disagree that there are no compelling or evidentiary reasons to believe...

...you're perfectly fine with those people? Or is this rant highly generalized beyond that nuance?

[Jakeblood240]

I don't say anything of the sort. The comments here are limited to "sheep", "moronic", "brainwashed" et. al.

I deny these charges as the mindless drivel of non-critical, simple-minded, criticism.

It's just old hat, but every person who comes along and says "brainwashed", thinks they are superior in intellect to all those prior. Certainly to all those with religious considerations.

I get tired of the masturbation.

Excuse my over use of sarcasm but, Spaghetti! It drives one crazy.

[TheSamRulz]

@Jakeblood240 Who knows if these "smart people" were sincere in their beliefs? We certainly know what happened to smart people who asked too many questions when the church was in power.

[90gregclark]

@Jakeblood240 There were very clever people that believed in god. But you can do great things and still be wrong about religion. It is not one or the other.

[fufuscott]

Thank you for posting. Both are excellent speakers, though there seemed to be one obvious 'winner.' Only thing that made me dislike it was the last question/statement in which the woman said atheists are going to hell.

[Turandot29]

PhilosophyF, thanks for posting this debate.

I do love to hear my beloved HItch speak.

[PhilosophyF]

Thank you for watching, absolutely.

(He was a cool enough guy, when I met with him backstage... scary smart, very funny)

[draftube]

Any athiest could pretend to be religious and lead you to any god or devil they wanted

[draftube]

atheist*

[mrbunsen]

I'm glad that moron at the end listened to ANYTHING Hitchens said. So many, are so brainwashed beyond all hope, it's unbelievable ... What the hell year is it that people still buy into religion?

[PhilosophyF]

I found her... attractive and a little scary in her sincerity. After they sent back to their seats all the questioners for "last question", she goes up to the second mic and waits to say this.

Odd.

Poetic.

Sort of weak sauce and obviously false.

[deadacc42845]

Hmm...coming from the deep South, would I be warranted in saying that she was a mite, "cornbread-fed," and not in a bad way?

Shame that some of those delicious motes of corncake took up residence in her noggin and brought her to such a lie...

[PhilosophyF]

You can see her in one of my other videos... the "interview" one from this debate.

[deadacc42845]

Ah, not so far from the truth, then. I stand by my supposition, on both counts. Not enough to make me praise Jesus, but not...bad.

[pxxner]

i love on how that lady ends this with such an insightful pascal's wager of sorts.

[rothery86]

"all you have to do is accept what Jesus did for you on the cross- what could be a lighter requirement?"

I would accept the Koran before the Bible. Part one of both is based on the same crackpot ancient text, but at least part two of the Koran is more recent and verifiable than the Bible's part two.

Seriously though, accepting the grounds of Christianity is a "light" requirement? Absurd.

[mironowak]

Listening to his desperately contorted pathetic pseudo-scientific, infantile "arguments" I can see Mr.Bean reincarnated in more ways than one. I genuinely feel sorry for Dinesh watching this very one-sided "debate".

[akamola]

Mr. Bean isn't dead, how can he be reincarnated ??? That is just stupid !!!!

[mironowak]

I agree with you, mate.

So called "reincarnation" is a very far fetched and outright stupid concept.

Mr.Atkinson is indeed very much alive and kicking. However Mr.Bean has not been seen around for quite a while;-)

Have a beer mate and relax a bit.

Secular greetings from Down Under

[akamola]

Ahhh, you aussie eh ??? You gonna follow the ANZAC test ??? The kiwis will definitely kick some aussie ass !!!! Lets drink to that !!!!!

[andyx1205]

D'Souza said that you can be a Charles Manson and still receive a gift by accepting Jesus Christ. Well, does the same apply to Hitler?

[ricksparks]

That's my favorite part of Christianity. You can kill MILLIONS and if you pretend to "accept Jesus" as your Lord (Lord? We in 18th century England?) and savior... ALL will be forgiven.

Suckers.

[boiiinng]

That's right....GET USED TO IT!!!

[rahulagrawal1487]

all your responsibility for your actions is absolved just by saying yes to a free gift? sickening thought

[Stipoon]

It's a creepy offer. I rather go and make up for my own misdeeds, and not pile it on to a scapegoat.

[BionicDance]

I find it deeply, deeply suspicious that the one requirement to get into heaven is BELIEF WITHOUT PROOF.

No other thing makes me more suspicious of religion--all religions--than THAT. It seems to me that any LOVING god would have made the requirement something more amenable to proof, something that doesn't require self-deception on the part of those with a healthy respect for empirical evidence.

In fact, I find the belief requirement indicative of either a mischievous god or not god at all.

[akamola]

D'Souza display's an abismal deficiency in the fields of anthropology, archealogy, evolutionary biology, cosmology and even neurology. His arguments are getting attrite and hackneyed and only a fool can agree with him without doing his/her research. Hitchens, as always, essentially brilliant !!!!!!!