As far as I understand it, the reason why it still has that orange flap is vestigiality. It's the same reason we have appendices and men have nipples - it's a throwback to an earlier form that simply hasn't been lost over the limited number of generations. If it's not causing TOO MUCH harm, it'll still be there in the next generation for thousands of generations. And just like the appendix, it may be performing some (subtle) task still.
@Sandcat87 The main reason vestigial stuff disappears in nature is energy cost, which doesn't factor in the simulation. So it's much more likely for them to retain anything that doesn't hinder their progress, like the orange flap.
I wonder how different it would look and move if you left it for 1 million years ???? Could it be that natural evolution itself is done through a similar algorithm???
Bravo! I'm convinced this kind of work is what will make new minds not only possible, but the realization of our leap from the animal world into a post-human future. But we NEED more people working on alternative engery, because the amount of power that will be necessary to evolve truly independent minds will be vast and oil won't get us there in time. Let's work to make that our future.
By the way, you might enjoy knowing - I know of at least one researcher who uses evolutionary computing in the design of alternative energy systems :) A bit of overlap there.
So I'm not sure what this represents...the initial block structure limited the velocity values. And each make that would cause a slower run would not be used in the next gen?
I think if you made a foot it would be cooler. Using changing colors to show tensed and stressed areas as pressure is applied, then evolving it into a more weight distributing but still mobile type of foot crutch...Idk I just haven't seen somethin like that
@MurdKnife You've more or less got it. The ones that travel farther in a fixed amount of time are more likely (it's probabilistic) to be chosen as parents when producing the next generation.
The foot idea would be a very interesting project. Fitness measurement could be some combination of ability-to-be-used-as-a-foot and overall-spread-of-tension-and-pressure. Way beyond what this program can do, but still something that would be quite interesting to see done.
@manrayer88 Yeah, it's more likely something fishy with the way I'm doing the physics or graphics, and nothing wrong with your system. I hope I can get the next version to work a little better.
you should also include segment count, volume count and segment length in the fitness equation... that way you'll end up with a leaner and meaner machine.. (if you haven't done this already)
@cappie2000 Good suggestions. I do have volume being used (optionally). I'm working on a new version. I intend to provide a *lot* of basic measurements like those you mentioned and more, and let the user construct his/her own fitness function, like entering a formula. Should be interesting whenever I finally get it done :)
Now tell us about the controlled experiments that confirm macroevo. You know, like they do for all the nonatheism-friendly theories before accepting them as proven. Try to do it without confusing microevo for macro. BTW I used to believe the theory 100%. That was b4 I looked for the supporting evidence. All we see happen is variation in what's already there (microevo) such as size, color and subtleties of shape. Macroevo needs completely new body parts.
check my youtube channel - find any of the more recent virtual creature videos - they all have the website URL at the end of the credits (and usually in the video description too). Feel free to PM me if you have any trouble.
@piplupsingularity Yep, that's how I understood you. Evolution is like extinction - it only happens to populations, not individuals. In the pokemon universe, of course, anything goes :)
@kjlg74 It's interesting that it initially seems to use the flap to give it the extra energy to get itself unstuck from the ground, then as it becomes lighter and more springy it seems to use the flap as a way of storing energy to stay above ground for longer.
@intboom It does look that way. I wish I still had this creature file. I could deliberately snip off that body part and see if it makes a difference. Unfortunately, I lost it long ago :(
It occurs to me that one evolutionary factor that you may not be using here is the energy cost involved in the life support of each bit. Every cell in an organism requires energy, which leads to a survival cost. This would have a tendency to trim down the extraneous frills, if each creature had an energy budget to spend before it could reproduce.
@OccamKant You're right, and it's something a number of others have pointed out as well. Perhaps I'll implement some kind of energy-usage measurement at some point, that can be factored into any fitness evaluation if the user wishes. It's a good idea!
question, i like your video i was wondering if u can help me with a question i came up with an idea lets say there are two pc's ,in pc 1 there are three box's that are out putting letter from a-z box=f box=r box=w the next set of boxs box=h box=l box=x box 2 a-z box-3 a-z is it possible to see what pc 1 is out puting then take that info and manually in put it into pc 2 then could pc 2 know where pc 1 is going and what pc 1s next out put would be before it comes out
So in 1070 generations it never just lost that thing sticking out of it's side. There was never some mutation that found it to really be a problem, at all. Weird.
@MaestroAlvis I suspect (although I don't have the files anymore to be sure) that it might be unable to lose that block for reasons that are tied up in the way the bodies are "grown" following the settings in the genomes. It's a little hard to explain - but you could imagine it like this: that thing is the "real" body and the rest is an appendage. Mutation can remove parts of appendages but it can't remove the main body block. That's not quite right, but close to what I mean.
@kjlg74 Didn't think of that. Ya, you explained in the tutorials that bodies are built in a sort of tree structure with one shape being the root with no parents. Still seems like there could have been a mutation that just moves the legs up a level and attaches them directly to the root. Or else change how the arm is attached to the root so that it isn't sticking out to the side at an odd angle.
@MaestroAlvis I should implement a mutation that can remove the root (well, technically, replace the root). Actually, come to think of it, there is a mutation that could have accomplished it. Oh well, too late to figure out the cause of that little thing sticking around.
Yes. They can lose them, gain them, copy them, alter them. All of the above.
Most of the vids on the channel are from runs where the fitness measure (usually travel distance) was divided through by a measure of body size, which tends to cause creatures to trim away or shrink body parts over the generations if they can get away with it.
Yes. That's what happens the overwhelming majority of the time. It settles on a general body plan early on and then just refines it. It's not explicitly programmed to do that; it just tends to work out that way.
yeah , and it still going strong , i only learnt about that program because i am into cyberpunk , and had read do androids dream of electronic sheep , and one day did a search on google and found it and been using it ever since :)
lol, it never did ditch the orange wing thingy on it, it just slowly got smaller and smaller. Interesting how the creature became less complex but more efficient with time.
lol it allways annoys me when something isnt sammetetricle (i dont know why) the orange thing buged me through the whole thing but it was obviously helpfull otherwise it wouldnt of kept it.
It's also possible that it wasn't helpful, but that the population just had no way to get rid of it given the constraints that exist on the way their bodies are "grown" according to their genetic recipe. I'm still not sure what the reason was for this creature's orange thingy sticking around, and I no longer have the creature file to investigate.
im sorry for all mt questions but hw do i choose the 2 parents ive done what you said but it just keeps generating random creatures still after like 50 differant ones when will it stop?
k seemed like that was what it was going for at first i was like what the hell is it going for just keeps running straight lol. cant wait to see more complicated programs with more variables. would be neat for a sandbox type game to have evolution in it
On the "stellaralchemy" website. (use that name, plus ".com" - youtube's comment filter seems to prevent me from entering the URL in any normal way). Worst case: just google "3DVCE"
k thanks i have installed it. im confused how exactly do you get it to evolve i have it on go but it just keeps randomly genarating differant creatures. are these the competitors and the 2 with the highest fitness levels pass on their genes? how exactly does it work ami doing something wrong
What you're seeing is the program evaluating one creature at a time. There is a population of creatures (populations evolve, not individuals). Once it evaluates each one, the fitter ones will reproduce to produce the next generation. Then it will evaluate the new ones one by one. That process just keep repeating. That very first population is generated at random, so it's normal to see a lot of different creatures at first. Most of them pretty strange and lousy.
In the settings for the evolution you can specify the number of generations. "-1" for no limit (i.e it will run until you decide not to run it anymore). Normally it takes a couple dozen generations before you start seeing the more interesting creatures. If, by say 40 generations, the creatures look uninteresting, it's probably best to start a fresh run. Typically this means several days worth of letting the program run (during the nights while you sleep, say, or while you're at work/school).
Incidentally, if you haven't saved your current evolution, you'll need to do that or you won't be able to continue where you left off next time you run the application. Also, check the youtube channel playlists for a set of videos I threw together to explain some aspects of how to use the program.
indeed, probably, and we are just continuing the process :)
simulation inside that simulation, one day we will be advanced enough to simulate worlds, and then one day they will be far enough. This will never stop, its mind bending really :D
WOW gotta say, this is even simple enough for most creationists to understand. they should be able to admit, regardless of whether or not it takes place, that the concept of evolution is plausible, there's no denying it since this program exists
that last creature really looks like it could of been "designed" and yet, it was made completely by random generation combined with keeping the best outcomes, natural selection :P
When you intervened, did the creature say "you don't actually exist, I can do whatever i want, I can have purpose without you, you did not make me, the big bang made me (or should i say, the "Big IBM", lol)"? Does/could this creature have Freewill? What started evolution? Where in evolution do things begin to replicate themselves? If religion is a product of evolution, and evolution is going from simple to more complex, then where does the "superior" notion of religion begin to replace atheism?
Interesting how quickly a 4th appendage evolved, also how the appendages became symmetrical/ longer. It seems to me that with every generation, although the creature is more effective at the task, it has greater energy requirements, like its movement cycle was suboptimal/redundant.
its interesting that some of these creatures looks like actual animals. but it is because for example a frog and these creatures have a similar goal to reach which is distance.
Were these the results you were expecting, or did you expect it to use regular quadrupedal locomotion? It took me a while to notice it was evolving to take advantage of hopping.
i cant imagine any results were expected other than a creature capable of effectively traversing the terrain. But ye i was pretty interested to see hopping come through :)
It'd be interesting to see this program run several times to see a selection of different solutions that emerge.
Sorry for my slow reply. Check the other videos on the channel - there are about 200 different creatures recorded from this program now. Lots of variety but also a few recurring body-plan themes.
Sorry for the slow reply. Actually, I wasn't sure what to expect. I was hoping I'd eventually see a quadruped, but so far that has never really happened in any of the runs I've seen. Still interesting results nonetheless.
Nice Work. Although in those simulations, where you only see one creature, I wonder how the selection process works. Is it been processed mathematically and only the "fittest" is rendered in 3D?
Each creature is simulated (and rendered - although that's something I should eventually disable) and evaluated on its own. After a few hundred generations, I record a video of the best creature from the final generation. Does that answer the question? I could explain more.
this is amazing, how many generations did it take to achieve this?
and another question, if a creature seems to become stagnant, if leaving ot to continue evolving will it eventually change, or add more to itself? or can these creatures dead end fairly easily?
This was over 1000 generations with a population of size 100 (I think). Usually the stagnant populations will stay stagnant. One way to trigger change is to change the environment (bumpy vs flat) or the fitness (travel vs jump), or switch to a very small population - they tend to experience greater genetic drift.
Good simulation of artificial evolution. I like how the vestigial orange "hopping arm", useful in the early stages of evolution, remains part of the genotype even at the end when the strategy changes to "springing from underneath" locomotion. Kinda like the human appendix, or T-Rex's front legs, no longer needed, but still present and gradually disappearing.
6th annual skepticism/critical thinking conference put on by the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) in Vegas. TAM stands for The Amazing Meeting, which is an understated description of the event. It's a blast!
Is there a supernatural God?..or is the energy behind life and behind our universe a natural creative energy...I believe the evolutionary process of natural selection are also guided by a natural energy of our cosmos....how about mathematical proof? I also have biological proof....Search videos by superwhuffo1
Actually, I'm done collecting "official" data now. From now on (unless I do another experiment at some point) I'm only collecting creatures for the zoo - i.e. for fun. When I get a chance, I'll update the website to reflect this and add a public download link and instructions.
I got a new PC recently. Intel core 2 duo, GeForce BFG video card, 4GB RAM, etc. Much faster than the old clunker I had last year! ;)
It just means that you run a particular evolution configuration of mine and send me a small text file with some data at the end (and usually the final creature too). Don't worry about that, though. Despite what it says on the website, I consider that to be totally voluntary and optional. In fact, very soon I'll be making the download link public and won't be requesting processing time in return anyway :)
Yes and no. Only the individual with the highest fitness gets copied intact into the next generation. All the rest are either mutated copies of parent creatures from the previous generation or hybrids made by crossing the genetic material from two parents from the previous generation.
A parent is selected by choosing N creatures at random from the previous generation (N usually small, like 2 to 5) in a tournament, and having the best one become the chosen parent.
..so they can all continue to reproduce, even the less fit creatures (they just have a smaller chance of doing so because they're less likely to win a tournament), but only the single best creature gets to reproduce by cloning (mutation-free copying).
I also wondered about that side appendage (orange in the early generations) and thought it was odd that it persisted for so long when, as far as I could tell, it was not contributing to the function. In nature, growing such an appendage would have a cost that would make it a liability if it were not contributing to function.
I would think that it's there because it quickly became necessary for balance. Once you get rid of it, the movements it's evolved would make it frequently tip over and such, so it becomes a sort of tail except a little less useful. Maybe you just didn't program in the necessary penalty for having an appendage that in the real world would get stuck on branches, gobbled up by predators, and be just one extra thing that could catch cancer or become infected.
Actually, though, some kind of virtual parasites could be an interesting way to provoke a greater degree of continuous change over the generations. I should try something like that sometime, just to see.
Actually, it does appear to have a function. Particularly during early and mid-evolution, it seem that the creature is using it for balance, to keep it from falling sideways. This is during the periods that the "wing" is fairly large. The larger "wing" from early on should have more mass, and thus would be more useful for maintaining balance. Later on, it seems that the creature's ability to keep overall body balance increases, so the "wing" shrinks as large adjustments are no longer needed.
Thanks for sharing that, I've been interested in that software since seeing a special on PBS for it a few years ago. ..Know where I can download it :)?
are those the best from each genaration?
erti655 4 days ago
Lamb in a mountain!!!
lianeber 1 week ago
little flapper till the end!
okami119 5 months ago
generation 864200 can jump into hyper space!
uratoko 6 months ago
Im probably still suprised of the fact that it might have erectile disyfunction. Sorry for my spelling, im still in trauma
joefelthebest 6 months ago
Ah yes, a fine specimen of a boner jumper creature.
BadCompany98 6 months ago
dude the physics is totally whacked up -- they can run really fast just by BOUNCING ALONG.
Either that or it has superhuman strength and can jump like 10 feet just by moving its feet 1 inch super fast and we don't even see it...
theguyi26 7 months ago
Comment removed
gromby 7 months ago in playlist AL
Somebody make a genetic algorithm that can help with the production of solar panels or something
aNickzz 8 months ago
The whole time I wanted that flap on it's side to move onto it's back and be a sail so the creature would be symmetric.
CleverCactus 9 months ago
You evolved a kind of cangaroo:D
outslider1 10 months ago
Perhaps a more subtle objective value?
sulljoh1 10 months ago
As far as I understand it, the reason why it still has that orange flap is vestigiality. It's the same reason we have appendices and men have nipples - it's a throwback to an earlier form that simply hasn't been lost over the limited number of generations. If it's not causing TOO MUCH harm, it'll still be there in the next generation for thousands of generations. And just like the appendix, it may be performing some (subtle) task still.
Sandcat87 10 months ago
@Sandcat87 The main reason vestigial stuff disappears in nature is energy cost, which doesn't factor in the simulation. So it's much more likely for them to retain anything that doesn't hinder their progress, like the orange flap.
vaiyt 10 months ago
I wonder how different it would look and move if you left it for 1 million years ???? Could it be that natural evolution itself is done through a similar algorithm???
SirRecluse 11 months ago
I wish I had dick propulsion..
Apostacious 1 year ago 7
The thing just bounces a little higher and more rapidly each time......
xlXAaronXlx 1 year ago
whats the program?
gytisxp64 1 year ago
@gytisxp64 It's called "3DVCE". Should be the first hit if you google it.
kjlg74 1 year ago
i thought it was kind of funny how even after all that time, it still had that pointless flap on its side
Flowtail 1 year ago
@Flowtail y not ? at the end it looks like it uses it for balance :O
CaptainLongNick 1 year ago
@CaptainLongNick huh really? ah, well.
Flowtail 1 year ago
Comment removed
CaptainLongNick 1 year ago
@Flowtail I'm not sure, it looks like it.. Ask it once it learns to speak. :P
CaptainLongNick 1 year ago
Bravo! I'm convinced this kind of work is what will make new minds not only possible, but the realization of our leap from the animal world into a post-human future. But we NEED more people working on alternative engery, because the amount of power that will be necessary to evolve truly independent minds will be vast and oil won't get us there in time. Let's work to make that our future.
Dundlele 1 year ago 8
@Dundlele Well, I'll keep at it!
By the way, you might enjoy knowing - I know of at least one researcher who uses evolutionary computing in the design of alternative energy systems :) A bit of overlap there.
kjlg74 1 year ago
So I'm not sure what this represents...the initial block structure limited the velocity values. And each make that would cause a slower run would not be used in the next gen?
I think if you made a foot it would be cooler. Using changing colors to show tensed and stressed areas as pressure is applied, then evolving it into a more weight distributing but still mobile type of foot crutch...Idk I just haven't seen somethin like that
MurdKnife 1 year ago
@MurdKnife You've more or less got it. The ones that travel farther in a fixed amount of time are more likely (it's probabilistic) to be chosen as parents when producing the next generation.
The foot idea would be a very interesting project. Fitness measurement could be some combination of ability-to-be-used-as-a-foot and overall-spread-of-tension-and-pressure. Way beyond what this program can do, but still something that would be quite interesting to see done.
kjlg74 1 year ago
I think there is something wrong with the physics or gravity in my game or something but everything moves very slow
My computer can run Crysis on very high so I don't think its my processor
manrayer88 1 year ago
@manrayer88 Yeah, it's more likely something fishy with the way I'm doing the physics or graphics, and nothing wrong with your system. I hope I can get the next version to work a little better.
kjlg74 1 year ago
@manrayer88 Crysis means you have a good graphics card. This runs entirly on your processor.
richardmuthwill 1 year ago
you should also include segment count, volume count and segment length in the fitness equation... that way you'll end up with a leaner and meaner machine.. (if you haven't done this already)
cappie2000 1 year ago
@cappie2000 Good suggestions. I do have volume being used (optionally). I'm working on a new version. I intend to provide a *lot* of basic measurements like those you mentioned and more, and let the user construct his/her own fitness function, like entering a formula. Should be interesting whenever I finally get it done :)
kjlg74 1 year ago
@kjlg74 it still blows my mind :)
I bet you were inspired by Karl Sims ... congratz on your achievements so far.. building something like this can cost you a lot of headaches :)
cappie2000 1 year ago
This is the real cutting edge of AI! Wow!
bundangbear 1 year ago
@bundangbear It's definitely the most interesting field within AI, to me at least :)
kjlg74 1 year ago
Now tell us about the controlled experiments that confirm macroevo. You know, like they do for all the nonatheism-friendly theories before accepting them as proven. Try to do it without confusing microevo for macro. BTW I used to believe the theory 100%. That was b4 I looked for the supporting evidence. All we see happen is variation in what's already there (microevo) such as size, color and subtleties of shape. Macroevo needs completely new body parts.
ExtremeWorship 1 year ago
where can i get this software?
ashinms 1 year ago
@ashinms Hi ashinms,
check my youtube channel - find any of the more recent virtual creature videos - they all have the website URL at the end of the credits (and usually in the video description too). Feel free to PM me if you have any trouble.
kjlg74 1 year ago
@ashinms (second response) I just checked, and I did put the website URL in this video's description as well. Cheers!
kjlg74 1 year ago
dickhopper
Robstailey 1 year ago
@Robstailey LOL :)
kjlg74 1 year ago
Can this software make full use of multicore processors such as Intel Corei i5 and i7?
spyxter 1 year ago
@spyxter Unfortunately, no. One of these days I need to learn how to code for taking advantage of such resources.
kjlg74 1 year ago
I wonder what the brick colors mean. Is it different function?
kasuha 1 year ago
@kasuha Good question. The colors are under genetic control, but there are no "physical" differences between the colors. They're just decorative.
kjlg74 1 year ago
what do you think about porygon (a pokemon)?
look it up
piplupsingularity 1 year ago
@piplupsingularity I looked it up :) It's from that infamous episode that caused seizures, lol! I like it already.
It certainly has a somewhat 3DVCE-creature-like appearance.
kjlg74 1 year ago
@kjlg74
porygon can also "evolve"
piplupsingularity 1 year ago
@piplupsingularity :D I didn't know that.
kjlg74 1 year ago
@kjlg74
you know, the usual kind of pokemon evolution, not the actual theory of evolution
piplupsingularity 1 year ago
@piplupsingularity Yep, that's how I understood you. Evolution is like extinction - it only happens to populations, not individuals. In the pokemon universe, of course, anything goes :)
kjlg74 1 year ago
It's interesting how it seems to gain and lose entire legs, but it always keeps that orange/yellow/lilac flap on its side no matter what.
intboom 1 year ago
@intboom I'm not entirely sure why that is.
kjlg74 1 year ago
@kjlg74 It's interesting that it initially seems to use the flap to give it the extra energy to get itself unstuck from the ground, then as it becomes lighter and more springy it seems to use the flap as a way of storing energy to stay above ground for longer.
intboom 1 year ago
@intboom It does look that way. I wish I still had this creature file. I could deliberately snip off that body part and see if it makes a difference. Unfortunately, I lost it long ago :(
kjlg74 1 year ago
I wonder how it would look like after 100'000 generations or so.
Yoctopory 1 year ago
@Yoctopory Not a whole lot different, I suspect. Still, it would be interesting to find out!
kjlg74 1 year ago
It occurs to me that one evolutionary factor that you may not be using here is the energy cost involved in the life support of each bit. Every cell in an organism requires energy, which leads to a survival cost. This would have a tendency to trim down the extraneous frills, if each creature had an energy budget to spend before it could reproduce.
OccamKant 1 year ago
@OccamKant You're right, and it's something a number of others have pointed out as well. Perhaps I'll implement some kind of energy-usage measurement at some point, that can be factored into any fitness evaluation if the user wishes. It's a good idea!
kjlg74 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
manattan342 1 year ago
i did that, you sould try it
tim300cx5 1 year ago
So in 1070 generations it never just lost that thing sticking out of it's side. There was never some mutation that found it to really be a problem, at all. Weird.
MaestroAlvis 1 year ago
@MaestroAlvis I suspect (although I don't have the files anymore to be sure) that it might be unable to lose that block for reasons that are tied up in the way the bodies are "grown" following the settings in the genomes. It's a little hard to explain - but you could imagine it like this: that thing is the "real" body and the rest is an appendage. Mutation can remove parts of appendages but it can't remove the main body block. That's not quite right, but close to what I mean.
kjlg74 1 year ago
@kjlg74 Didn't think of that. Ya, you explained in the tutorials that bodies are built in a sort of tree structure with one shape being the root with no parents. Still seems like there could have been a mutation that just moves the legs up a level and attaches them directly to the root. Or else change how the arm is attached to the root so that it isn't sticking out to the side at an odd angle.
MaestroAlvis 1 year ago
@MaestroAlvis I should implement a mutation that can remove the root (well, technically, replace the root). Actually, come to think of it, there is a mutation that could have accomplished it. Oh well, too late to figure out the cause of that little thing sticking around.
kjlg74 1 year ago
@kjlg74 Just add that to the end of the to do list. Hope you get around to it sometime.
MaestroAlvis 1 year ago
its not an evolution of shape, just the way it moves
B3nn1994 1 year ago
reminds me of a sawhorse at the end
MrChristianWright 1 year ago
@MrChristianWright Me too
kjlg74 1 year ago
just a question.. can the creatures also lose segments? the last creature in this video seems to have less parts
danesbenoit 2 years ago
Yes. They can lose them, gain them, copy them, alter them. All of the above.
Most of the vids on the channel are from runs where the fitness measure (usually travel distance) was divided through by a measure of body size, which tends to cause creatures to trim away or shrink body parts over the generations if they can get away with it.
kjlg74 2 years ago
great!
i'm going to stick into it for a while, running a sim right now :)
danesbenoit 2 years ago
If you evolve anything interesting, feel free to send it my way. I'll put it in my queue for eventual recording and posting :)
I apologize ahead of time for the poor user interface!
kjlg74 2 years ago
user interface is fine, filled with descriptions and intuitive.
i will surely send something interesting :)
danesbenoit 2 years ago
it's interesting that the last generation's best creature conserves the shape of the firt's generation one.
if for example the first generation was dominated by a worm-like creature, the last one would have been totally different !
it's how natural selection @ mutations work actually :)
danesbenoit 2 years ago
Yes. That's what happens the overwhelming majority of the time. It settles on a general body plan early on and then just refines it. It's not explicitly programmed to do that; it just tends to work out that way.
kjlg74 2 years ago
reminds me of electric sheep , but thats more to do with an over internet AI evolution in dream state
jmm1233 2 years ago
That name sounds familiar. Isn't that an old evolutionary screen-saver program?
kjlg74 2 years ago
yeah , and it still going strong , i only learnt about that program because i am into cyberpunk , and had read do androids dream of electronic sheep , and one day did a search on google and found it and been using it ever since :)
awesome mind that AI has
jmm1233 2 years ago
Nice to hear it's still going strong. I remember it being very slick and hypnotic!
kjlg74 2 years ago
Evolution Baby! It Works!
Evolution isn't about "Being more complex" its about "Change"
If having two Wangs and 4 wings is better then having 80 legs, then Evolution Supports it!
Evolution is "Change for the Better"
BlankPicketSign 2 years ago 14
@BlankPicketSign Yup. Exactly. You said it. Constant change towards or for better.
chocoboyc 4 months ago
@chocoboyc
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I said "If having two Wangs and 4 wings is better then having 80 legs, then Evolution Supports it!"
*giggles* two wangs..... AAaaahahaha!
BlankPicketSign 4 months ago
@BlankPicketSign lol, its still better than 80 legs! :D
chocoboyc 4 months ago
hey whats the song in this called, its awesome
ThomasNeilHannah 2 years ago
It's called "Pop Science" by Devin Anderson.
Sorry for the slow reply!
kjlg74 2 years ago
lol, it never did ditch the orange wing thingy on it, it just slowly got smaller and smaller. Interesting how the creature became less complex but more efficient with time.
LouSaydus 2 years ago
haha, that thing has two giant wangs to help it hop around. Nice!
DJActivitY 2 years ago
cool, can you make an entire new sim with selection pressure for beauty? What will happen?
Or selection pressure for looking like a mario character :)
would be cool, and anything with mario in it gets 100,000+ views :P
showABCshow 2 years ago
.i do find it very interesting how it seems to get simpler as generations go on
shadowulf23 2 years ago
lol it allways annoys me when something isnt sammetetricle (i dont know why) the orange thing buged me through the whole thing but it was obviously helpfull otherwise it wouldnt of kept it.
04carrolld 2 years ago
It's also possible that it wasn't helpful, but that the population just had no way to get rid of it given the constraints that exist on the way their bodies are "grown" according to their genetic recipe. I'm still not sure what the reason was for this creature's orange thingy sticking around, and I no longer have the creature file to investigate.
kjlg74 2 years ago
im sorry for all mt questions but hw do i choose the 2 parents ive done what you said but it just keeps generating random creatures still after like 50 differant ones when will it stop?
04carrolld 2 years ago
i guess the selective pressure was how far uphill it could go in a timpe period or something?
Prontest 2 years ago
More or less correct. Fitness is horizontal distance in a fixed time. Plus, the further it goes, the steeper the ground gets.
kjlg74 2 years ago
k seemed like that was what it was going for at first i was like what the hell is it going for just keeps running straight lol. cant wait to see more complicated programs with more variables. would be neat for a sandbox type game to have evolution in it
Prontest 2 years ago
were can i get this software?
04carrolld 2 years ago
On the "stellaralchemy" website. (use that name, plus ".com" - youtube's comment filter seems to prevent me from entering the URL in any normal way). Worst case: just google "3DVCE"
kjlg74 2 years ago
k thanks i have installed it. im confused how exactly do you get it to evolve i have it on go but it just keeps randomly genarating differant creatures. are these the competitors and the 2 with the highest fitness levels pass on their genes? how exactly does it work ami doing something wrong
04carrolld 2 years ago
What you're seeing is the program evaluating one creature at a time. There is a population of creatures (populations evolve, not individuals). Once it evaluates each one, the fitter ones will reproduce to produce the next generation. Then it will evaluate the new ones one by one. That process just keep repeating. That very first population is generated at random, so it's normal to see a lot of different creatures at first. Most of them pretty strange and lousy.
kjlg74 2 years ago
so how long should this take? is there a limit or does it just keep going untill there are suitable creatures?.
04carrolld 2 years ago
In the settings for the evolution you can specify the number of generations. "-1" for no limit (i.e it will run until you decide not to run it anymore). Normally it takes a couple dozen generations before you start seeing the more interesting creatures. If, by say 40 generations, the creatures look uninteresting, it's probably best to start a fresh run. Typically this means several days worth of letting the program run (during the nights while you sleep, say, or while you're at work/school).
kjlg74 2 years ago
Incidentally, if you haven't saved your current evolution, you'll need to do that or you won't be able to continue where you left off next time you run the application. Also, check the youtube channel playlists for a set of videos I threw together to explain some aspects of how to use the program.
kjlg74 2 years ago
I shall dub it...the Lop-Sided Winky Hopper.
Is there any significance to the color? That seemed to change gradually as well.
Digeridude 2 years ago
No, the color is determined "genetically", but it has no effect. It just changes more or less randomly as mutations occur.
kjlg74 2 years ago
figured lol so not needed for the simulation but pretty to watch
Prontest 2 years ago
I wonder if we're all genetic algorithms running in some super-massive computer somewhere...
paulmarko 2 years ago 20
@paulmarko I'm scared, what if someone turns it off. Or we're in some guys imagination and he's about to die.
crazyjak56 11 months ago
@paulmarko
indeed, probably, and we are just continuing the process :)
simulation inside that simulation, one day we will be advanced enough to simulate worlds, and then one day they will be far enough. This will never stop, its mind bending really :D
timen1986 8 months ago
WOW gotta say, this is even simple enough for most creationists to understand. they should be able to admit, regardless of whether or not it takes place, that the concept of evolution is plausible, there's no denying it since this program exists
that last creature really looks like it could of been "designed" and yet, it was made completely by random generation combined with keeping the best outcomes, natural selection :P
FlowerPickingCow 2 years ago
Thanks! :)
kjlg74 2 years ago
It looks a bit horselike if you take away the bottom parts. And it's interesting how it moves.
CriticalThought09 2 years ago
I find it looks a lot like something called a "saw horse" ;)
kjlg74 2 years ago
Looks like that appendage on the side may be acting as a balance organ. Very refined creature. Nice.
chodaboy51500 2 years ago
I was waiting for the part where he meets God.
yistackness 2 years ago 2
There are some videos where I intervene and mess with the creatures ;) (assuming I'm "God" :P)
kjlg74 2 years ago
When you intervened, did the creature say "you don't actually exist, I can do whatever i want, I can have purpose without you, you did not make me, the big bang made me (or should i say, the "Big IBM", lol)"? Does/could this creature have Freewill? What started evolution? Where in evolution do things begin to replicate themselves? If religion is a product of evolution, and evolution is going from simple to more complex, then where does the "superior" notion of religion begin to replace atheism?
yistackness 2 years ago
Interesting how quickly a 4th appendage evolved, also how the appendages became symmetrical/ longer. It seems to me that with every generation, although the creature is more effective at the task, it has greater energy requirements, like its movement cycle was suboptimal/redundant.
Illithan 2 years ago
Yes, I should eventually allow the user to factor energy use into fitness evaluation.
kjlg74 2 years ago
its interesting that some of these creatures looks like actual animals. but it is because for example a frog and these creatures have a similar goal to reach which is distance.
steffankaizer 2 years ago
Yes, I think the similar bodies must be due at least in part to being solutions to similar problems.
kjlg74 2 years ago
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Krahl123 2 years ago
Comment removed
Krahl123 2 years ago
Were these the results you were expecting, or did you expect it to use regular quadrupedal locomotion? It took me a while to notice it was evolving to take advantage of hopping.
Aoitetsugakusha 2 years ago
i cant imagine any results were expected other than a creature capable of effectively traversing the terrain. But ye i was pretty interested to see hopping come through :)
It'd be interesting to see this program run several times to see a selection of different solutions that emerge.
Isanion 2 years ago
Sorry for my slow reply. Check the other videos on the channel - there are about 200 different creatures recorded from this program now. Lots of variety but also a few recurring body-plan themes.
kjlg74 2 years ago
heh ye, just after posting my first comment i took a peak at the related videos bar and realised.
Still, thanks for replying.
Isanion 2 years ago
Sorry for the slow reply. Actually, I wasn't sure what to expect. I was hoping I'd eventually see a quadruped, but so far that has never really happened in any of the runs I've seen. Still interesting results nonetheless.
kjlg74 2 years ago
omg.. who is it? :)
Denis150386 2 years ago
Nice Work. Although in those simulations, where you only see one creature, I wonder how the selection process works. Is it been processed mathematically and only the "fittest" is rendered in 3D?
majohanimo 2 years ago
Each creature is simulated (and rendered - although that's something I should eventually disable) and evaluated on its own. After a few hundred generations, I record a video of the best creature from the final generation. Does that answer the question? I could explain more.
kjlg74 2 years ago
this is amazing, how many generations did it take to achieve this?
and another question, if a creature seems to become stagnant, if leaving ot to continue evolving will it eventually change, or add more to itself? or can these creatures dead end fairly easily?
sacul109498 2 years ago
Sorry for my slow reply!
This was over 1000 generations with a population of size 100 (I think). Usually the stagnant populations will stay stagnant. One way to trigger change is to change the environment (bumpy vs flat) or the fitness (travel vs jump), or switch to a very small population - they tend to experience greater genetic drift.
kjlg74 2 years ago
I wonder how far this creature could evolve if you run the simulation endlessly.
Maybe some day it would develope some kind of a mechanical brain. Maybe one day it would even found its own religion...
SalvadorDali22 2 years ago
Nah, the genetic representation and degrees of freedom available in these creatures are just too limited for any of that.
kjlg74 2 years ago
Good simulation of artificial evolution. I like how the vestigial orange "hopping arm", useful in the early stages of evolution, remains part of the genotype even at the end when the strategy changes to "springing from underneath" locomotion. Kinda like the human appendix, or T-Rex's front legs, no longer needed, but still present and gradually disappearing.
skitterbot 2 years ago
lol at the penis propulsion!
its amazing how efficient it became at the end except it kept that lonely wing
what population size did you use running 1070 generations!?...
Octostatue 2 years ago 5
Sorry for my slow reply!
I no longer recall the population size, but I'd guess it was about 100 or so.
kjlg74 2 years ago
What IS TAM6 anyways?
Yumminess0 3 years ago
6th annual skepticism/critical thinking conference put on by the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) in Vegas. TAM stands for The Amazing Meeting, which is an understated description of the event. It's a blast!
kjlg74 3 years ago
rock wallaby wins!
chevsnholdens 3 years ago
it would be so interesting to let a few virtual cells evovle on a super computer for a few years, and then see what comes out..
matieman77 3 years ago 3
Is there a supernatural God?..or is the energy behind life and behind our universe a natural creative energy...I believe the evolutionary process of natural selection are also guided by a natural energy of our cosmos....how about mathematical proof? I also have biological proof....Search videos by superwhuffo1
superwhuffo1 3 years ago
wth?
ecreif 2 years ago
PENIS PROPULSION!
Very good :)
RyanPridgeon 3 years ago 5
I wish you would make more "sequence" vids theyre very interesting =D
Yumminess0 3 years ago
also, just how much help do you need? How slow IS your computer?
Yumminess0 3 years ago
Actually, I'm done collecting "official" data now. From now on (unless I do another experiment at some point) I'm only collecting creatures for the zoo - i.e. for fun. When I get a chance, I'll update the website to reflect this and add a public download link and instructions.
I got a new PC recently. Intel core 2 duo, GeForce BFG video card, 4GB RAM, etc. Much faster than the old clunker I had last year! ;)
kjlg74 3 years ago
Thanks for the suggestion. Perhaps I will.
kjlg74 3 years ago
its says on the website that i have to donate computer time if i want this software
what does it mean by computer time?
11mc22 3 years ago
It just means that you run a particular evolution configuration of mine and send me a small text file with some data at the end (and usually the final creature too). Don't worry about that, though. Despite what it says on the website, I consider that to be totally voluntary and optional. In fact, very soon I'll be making the download link public and won't be requesting processing time in return anyway :)
kjlg74 3 years ago
Does anyone know if this program is availiable for download? If not, can anyone recommend a good evolution simulation program that is?
56Rubix56 3 years ago
Check the info, it's a link to the website where you can get a link to ask for a copy
AtlasRedux 3 years ago
Does the software only pick one "winner" in each generation, or does it allow other descendants to continue evolving in case it has potential?
AtlasRedux 3 years ago
Yes and no. Only the individual with the highest fitness gets copied intact into the next generation. All the rest are either mutated copies of parent creatures from the previous generation or hybrids made by crossing the genetic material from two parents from the previous generation.
A parent is selected by choosing N creatures at random from the previous generation (N usually small, like 2 to 5) in a tournament, and having the best one become the chosen parent.
(continued)
kjlg74 3 years ago
..so they can all continue to reproduce, even the less fit creatures (they just have a smaller chance of doing so because they're less likely to win a tournament), but only the single best creature gets to reproduce by cloning (mutation-free copying).
kjlg74 3 years ago
Love seeing that orange bit flapping like crazy, pretending to be useful.
ThePsychoReturns 3 years ago 4
cool the useless parts was selected against but that appendage was somehow usefull
and cool musik
steffankaizer 3 years ago
TheReasonWhyGuy
"My advice is to give it a slightly higher mutation rate earlier, but more important is to have a large population."
This is what I was referring to in that comment.
Referring to comment below
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
TheReasonWhyGuy 3 years ago
I also wondered about that side appendage (orange in the early generations) and thought it was odd that it persisted for so long when, as far as I could tell, it was not contributing to the function. In nature, growing such an appendage would have a cost that would make it a liability if it were not contributing to function.
jem2017 3 years ago
I no longer have this particular creature file to check, but it could be:
a) something it can't get rid of because of the way the bodies are "grown"
b) something it can't get rid of because it's useful (perhaps right at the very start - to tip the creature onto its feet - I don't know)
c) something useless that it simply never lost because the right mutation didn't come along
I suspect it's either a) or b), leaning towards a).
kjlg74 3 years ago
I would think that it's there because it quickly became necessary for balance. Once you get rid of it, the movements it's evolved would make it frequently tip over and such, so it becomes a sort of tail except a little less useful. Maybe you just didn't program in the necessary penalty for having an appendage that in the real world would get stuck on branches, gobbled up by predators, and be just one extra thing that could catch cancer or become infected.
cerealboxconspiracy 3 years ago 2
Virtual cancer :D I'd never considered that.
Actually, though, some kind of virtual parasites could be an interesting way to provoke a greater degree of continuous change over the generations. I should try something like that sometime, just to see.
kjlg74 3 years ago
for mutations that deal with efficiency like that you would probably need to run a huge population for many many many generations
inthefade 3 years ago
Actually, it does appear to have a function. Particularly during early and mid-evolution, it seem that the creature is using it for balance, to keep it from falling sideways. This is during the periods that the "wing" is fairly large. The larger "wing" from early on should have more mass, and thus would be more useful for maintaining balance. Later on, it seems that the creature's ability to keep overall body balance increases, so the "wing" shrinks as large adjustments are no longer needed.
cliftut 3 years ago
That sounds plausible and seems to fit with the video. You might be right.
kjlg74 3 years ago
Hopefully no one has asked but, what song is that playing? Really great -- just like these creatures! :)
electrodev 3 years ago
The music is "Pop Science" by "Devin Anderson". I agree, it's excellent stuff!
kjlg74 3 years ago
Thanks for sharing that, I've been interested in that software since seeing a special on PBS for it a few years ago. ..Know where I can download it :)?
Systemcat95 3 years ago
It's just part of sexual selection, the girlies like it :P
Pancrazioo 3 years ago 5