Thom debates Libertarian Wayne Allyn Root on healthcare being just like the post office

[ezgo77]

That sucked. Thom had all his facts twsited, made for a lame debate.

[Salvysahagun]

1.) Never heard of happy Librarians

2.) Nixon years. More inflation?

3.) Sherman Anti trust is still active

[Salvysahagun]

1.) Never heard of happy Librarians

2.) Nixon years. More inflation?

3.) Sherman Anti trust is still active

[Chaaarge]

Even though I agree with libertarians, Wayne is not that good at arguing for the libertarian cause

[tonyg0123]

Thom's arguments have no substance to them. He is just spewing out numbers. Thom, NOBODY actually paid that 90% tax that you liberals are claiming. What sane person would run a business if they were allowed to keep only 10 cents on every dollar? Liberals have no concept of business and we expect this country to improve under their control??? Yikes! The rest of his argument bordered insanity.

[BrettDunbar]

Thom Hartmann is a fucking retard and I can't wait till he dies.

[Downfurlife]

Police are there to provide authority & control for the government. My 4th amendment right was just stolen by the highest court in Indiana. This fact is clearly seen in any major protest.

[thesparitan]

@Downfurlife I can agree with that.

[Stephthatackle]

I actually would support raising the top .5% taxes to 99%. Must more effective than raising the top 5% because that would include small business owners making less than 500k. + too many government regulations are also hurting us.

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle if you do that you are not a libertarian, that is called progressive taxation and as such against the principles of your ideology

[whiff1962]

At present, the state has made the cost of healthcare and insurance artificially low. The latter has been effected by the degree and scope of state incursions into healthcare, by controlling the no. of practicing doctors, by way of the power of licensure, and the creation of a veritable govt. cartel in healthcare insurance. As much as health has come to take on a quasi-religious significance in our secular age, the state has alligned itself with medicine, much as that with the church of old.

[spmauzy]

Root comes off sounding like a moron. Slow down, dude. A true libertarian would have answered Hartmann.

Hartmann, spreading risk is insurance. That can be provided privately.

[Yanirakarola]

Military, police and courts are instated to prevent human force on each other. Healthcare is instated to reduce or prevent illness/sickness/disease. Two different cases. If you get ill or injured due to human force...the courts are there. If you get ill or sick from something else, you can't use force to make me pay for it (ironically, more people will get help once the gov. steps out of it).

[YoungIvyScholar]

Stop making Root sound like an anarchist. If you hate freedom and ambition, that's one thing. However, you have no right to treat him like an anarchist.

Stupid Neoliberals...

[bkrdave2000]

Hartman is your standard liberal dickwad- straight out of the Olberman, Madcow, O'Donnell mold. Specially O'Donnell, who "interviewed" (lol) Peter Schiff and never allowed him to get out more than three words in response before cutting him off and shouting him down. What a complete waste of time.

[MichaelBoryAlis]

Hartman is a stooge, would not let Wayne fully express himself. Hartman is a total DICK.

[salinagrrrl69]

This guy has a very weird idea of seeing stuff. But liberal skeeuwwed thinking is fascinating.

[thesparitan]

@salinagrrrl69 How so?

[Antiks72]

Libertarian Party is pro corporatism, pro rich and anti everyone else. 

[Amowtts]

I have never heard of Thom Hartmann before. This guy is an idiot. I will not be watching any more of these videos.

[thesparitan]

@Amowtts Good go away.

[jmjfanss]

Screw the left/right paradigm!

[jermcpicky]

"How do you know that, Wayne?" Good point, Thom.

[bonfirejovi]

If people like Thom ever get into government and turn us into 1970s Britain then Hong Kong/ Singapore here I come!

[patient0Studios]

Notice how ALL the right wing libertarians Thom interviews say "guvment" instead of government.

[Melpheos1er]

flat tax is very very BAD idea...

[jmjfanss]

@Melpheos1er

It's a good idea!

No More terrible spending.

Thom has it wrong!

[Melpheos1er]

@jmjfanss flat tax increases tax on the poor and middle class and reduce tax on the wealthy... Do you really think this is a good idea. If you are rich yes maybe

[jmjfanss]

@Melpheos1er

How about get rid of all taxes, that would be even better.

I Read the US Constitution, you don't.

[Melpheos1er]

@jmjfanss Do you really ? The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

[jmjfanss]

@Melpheos1er

The Congress should not lay the power on taxes on incomes, we should get rid of the income tax and other stuff.

[FightinSwedeFR]

Disregarding the actual debate, I just really want to punch Wayne in his face. The dude just sounds like a douche.

[FightinSwedeFR]

Oh and also I think it's great that Thom has these debates and manages to keep them from degenerating into mud-slinging.

I could not have debated this guy, honestly. Even his picture looks douchey.

[robb1031]

Individualism "actively oppose the notion of 'shared values' or the idea of 'the common good.' Who the fuck wants to live like that, other than a psychopath...

The libertarianism philosophy is extremely flawed and unattainable it has never existed and never will. in fact you could blame a good portion of this economic collapse on the these ideals...

The closest societies to the libertarian ideals = Haiti, Somalia, Zimbabwe...

[hanzo138]

"in fact you could blame a good portion of this economic collapse on the these ideals..."

What would that be exactly? The part where the Federal Reserve created the economic bubble to begin with or the part where Bill Clinton decided it would be a good idea to ignore the rule of law and allow the non-enforceable speculative derivatives to become enforceable?

Also since when is anarchy and tribal warlords a part of libertarian ideals?

What a tool!

[robb1031]

Well, until you agree that calling people a tool, is not rational, we really can't have this conversation.

[hanzo138]

It is only irrational if it is unwarranted by not fitting any observable information. Given that your post was a textbook example of fractal wrongness and that you show affinity towards collectivism, logic dictates that you are, at best, a tool. Having an intelligent conversation with the likes of you would be, without a doubt, an exercise in futility.

[bonfirejovi]

@robb1031 What are you talking about? Singapore and Hong Kong are the shining examples of economic liberalism and libertarianism. Zimbabwe engages in heavy Keynesianism which entails print, print, print!

[franks2732]

@bonfirejovi really I find that a rather stupid remark and thew reality of the economic conditions in those countries (Hong Kong is not a country but a state of China) are testament to that. And both Hong Kong & Singapore continually engage in Keynesian methods to resolve economic problems.

[clearsky24]

Here is the answer for this guy:

Because the Military and the Police are bad things to be controlled by the private sector, do you want to have the military turn against you? Do you want your police officers benefiting just one set of people...the rich? Or do you want them to biasly enforce the laws?  They exist to protect our rights.... government run health care is forcing a doctor work for free, if not than it is holding a gun to my head to make me pay for others mistakes.

[badmuffy]

Doctors would not be forced to work for free you dolt!

[clearsky24]

Then I would be forced to work for free to pay for it... you apparently don;t understand economics.

People need food... right? Without it they die.... right? So why don't we give everyone food?

[maxfrix]

@badmuffy Geez muffy, one of the big cost controls they are so proud of is to limit the amount the doctors can charge for their service. When kids are deciding what to major in school and the choice to spend 8 to 10 years in school to get out and have the government tell you what your hourly rate will be. Seems like it will be a bit more difficult getting people interested in the doctoring thing.

[truevoice08]

Tom is basically trying to score leftist points on Wayne! A good way to rebut Tom is by saying that we should socialize everything if you think the government can lower points. Wayne is a good sport. Tom is just another hate-filled leftist.

[jmjfanss]

@truevoice08

He is a puppet controlled by the elites, this is not a left/right issue, this is a battle between globalists vs. US Constutionalists.

[junechris]

Put Tom on meet the press!!!

[bonfirejovi]

@junechris Put Thom in a mental ward!

[junechris]

@bonfirejovi At least Thom has more integrity and inteligence in his finger, than you have in your entire body. Maybe you should try debating him instead of making annonomous comments on you tube? I'm sure you you could last at least 5 minutes, mayby 6.

[badmuffy]

Thom asked him a number of good questions which all basicly boiled down to one thing. Why draw the line at police and military? Cancer kills more people every year than terrorists do, so why do we consider the military so much more important than health care? Of course he couldn't answer. Stupid brainless Libertarian.

[clearsky24]

Because Healthcare is not a right, you have a right to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness, these things are spelled out in the constitution. You do not have a right to free healthcare. The answer was simple... because you don't want the police or military turning against you, or acting biasly.... it's like apples and oranges. I don't care if Health Care acts biasly the free market would take care of that, if the government would get out of it.

Your ignorance must be bliss.

[badmuffy]

No, wrong document, the constitution is the one that says congress has the right to collect taxes for the general welfare.

The health insurane companies are no better than any criminal organization who kills thousands of people every year, which makes them a threat to our general welfare, and gives congress the right to do something about it.

[clearsky24]

It gives you a right not to do business with them, We need to get the government out of health care completely then prices would fall.

We need improved competition.... by gettin government out.

[badmuffy]

No you don't understand economics. First of all we do give people food when they cant buy it themselves. It is called food stamps. We also give people free public educations. These things help people become successful. And when people are successful they can then pay taxes which in turn helps the next generation. How would public health imsurance be any different than public education?

[clearsky24]

Public Education is a disaster, we spend twice as much per student at public schools than we do at private schools.

Meaning the free market works better than goverment, an easy solution would be vouchers where private schools could compete. May the best school win, eventually leading to the removal of the disastrous public schools system.

So by the same reason I don't want public schools, I don't want public insurance.

Insurance and HC are too expensive government is the cause.

[maxfrix]

@badmuffy Exactly how would it be different, it wouldn't. It would be a failure exactly the same. Geez

[badmuffy]

If socialized healthcare would do for peoples health what public schools did for literacy (which was much MUCH higher before public schools) then you are insane to be against it.

[maxfrix]

@badmuffy I see that you are a victim of the public schools. It is sad you know no better. As bad as public schools are they have taught many to read that did not know how before. I believe our country would be at the head of the class if we privatized our schools. I do agree with the analogy that socialized medicine will reduce quality of care. You need to look closely at the healthcare the government runs right now. Medicare & Medicaid are disasters.

[franks2732]

@badmuffy That is a bald faced LIE. public Education is the Greatest Social initiative of our time and has worked well since the late 1800's. Worldwide it is the shining like of a civilized western society. You comments are that of an uneducated Nat

[bonfirejovi]

@franks2732 Ya public education is great which explains all the dummies we have coming out of public schools. If you think public education has worked well then you need to take a giant leap out of your ivory tower and get real.

[franks2732]

@bonfirejovi YA Public education is so great. Well actually it is. Like the fact before it existed no one could actually "read & write" but now entire nations have literacy rates of 98-99.9% of the society. I understand some people do not get the best they could. But the solution you offer is no answer. rather than stripping schools of educational funding. Maybe the USA should take advice from the rest of the developed world and increase the level of public spending

[maxfrix]

@badmuffy First he asked and never allowed him to answer. The reason you would draw the line is that when it comes to medical care, the absolute best quality of care comes from "for profit" entities. Same as education muffy. Why force people to have substandard care when in a free society one should have the choice to pay for the best care.

[oli1233]

You should let your guests speak, you might learn something.

[BudDickman]

Our governments role is to protect it's citizens from coercion. Distributing risk? Police are provided by the state because it is amongst it's essential roles. The justice system is within these roles. They do not include providing what it determines is "best" for the people. I agree with health care "reform", especially including denials of service and cost. Also, let's not make laws involving 93% when we're talking about 7%. Let's help the 7% that NEED it.

[chris72sax]

Maybe you people should stop breeding and learn to take care of yourselves. We ask nothing of you, but evidently, you can't put on your shoes without help that we have to subsidize. People used to feel shame for being so pathetic.

[evmazu]

I know you have very different positions but I appreciate you having a libertarian on the show. Your main issue is that b/c health care is so expensive, we need to spread the risk. Health care most certainly was not always so expensive, so the question you need to ask is why has the price risen so dramatically? If you look I think you'll find that government is the cause.

[ahabthewhaler]

libertarians are little kids who dont think much. they think they have found some magical answer when all they have is a bumper sticker

[teron678]

The Majority of Libertarians are Disgruntled Republicans ....

You ask a self Proclaimed Libertarian & a Republican a few questions in the end .. you wouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other ..

[jbrack]

and the new liberal is a digruntled marxist

[SocialDRcks]

Libertarias are the dick lips of the republican party!!

[yafonda]

OK, first Thom.. If you are going to interview someone with an opposing view, give them a chance to talk instead of lowering their mic and talking over them.. Second, what medical breakthroughs come out of countries with socialized medicine? None! You want to address health care, look at cost first. Get Tort Reform passed, first and foremost! Second, establish medical savings accounts, third, deregulate the healthcare industry. Until this happens, I don't want to hear about your Obamacare.

[slave7]

Thom, if I was taxed 91%, I don't care how much health care I get. I can't get sick enough to make that worth staying in the country. 91%, you can kiss my ass. I'll take my skills to Singapore.

[Antiks72]

@slave7 Norway charges you 7.8 percent for government-run healthcare.

[TimeWarp66]

@slave7

hear hear!

[franks2732]

@slave7 why not export your skills to Singapore, pehaps you will see how effective government service work

[thesparitan]

@slave7 That is a moronic statement. Try to avoid being a see as a moron in the future.

[TonawandaBlue]

So, on Root's planet - Nixon was a socialist, millionaires aren't really rich & local businesses fail because taxes are too high (just ignore the Walmart down the street)?

[ankharris]

Whenever Thom debates these clowns they hit the panic button. Listen to what a whiner this guy is.

[eddiemaxblack]

With "libertarianism"... well, who builds the roads and the bridges etc. etc.? And what happens to the general welfare? And will the fire department be privatized??? I mean, everything will and would be privatized except for police and the military. Most people just don't support this ideology.

[Strutinan]

FYI, we used to HAVE privatized police and fire departments.

We don't anymore.

Why? Because they were HIDEOUSLY INEFFICIENT, if not downright criminal.

[captcrais101]

Wayne sounds like a typical republican more than a libertarian.

[Strutinan]

"libertarian" IS "republican", the only substabtive difference is rebranding.

The avowed purpose of the libertarian party is to pull liberal votes from the presidential race.

And anybody who DOESN'T think it is a shell game: the majority of libertarian operating funds COMES FROM THE RNC!

[manicmetropolis]

can i have a source for that?

[rauron9]

Well, libertarian isn't exactly the same thing as republican. I, for example, am a leftist-libertarian, which doesn't have a platform.  However, the libertarian party is practically republican, since a majority of the party is overran by rightist-libertarians. This is why I don't like the libertarian party.

[jmjfanss]

@rauron9

It's better than the big government globalist two party system that we have to put up with now!

I'm a libertarian myself, but I'm also a constitutionalist.

[captcrais101]

I have libertarian friends and they know that republicans are corpatist. They just know that democrats are too. They support Ron Paul. Not all libertarians are the same.

[Stephthatackle]

@captcrais101 Libertarians will sound like Republicans on this topic.... on social issues they sound a lot different.

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle like hell they do. They are just the radical ing of the radical wing of right wing fruit loops

[Stephthatackle]

@franks2732 Clearly, you have never debated with a libertarian. We are mostly pro-choice or pro couples choice. We are against the war on drugs, we believe adults can make the decision to use or not to use without government help. We believe no government, state or local, should be involved in marriage. We believe in ending the DOA and replacing it with school vouchers to offer a better opportunity to urban students. We are very un-republican.

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle Clearly I have debated libertarians and simply holding a "social view' if albeit a limited one does not define your political stance outside that of the lunatic right wing fringe. For example the libertarian party says it's pro decriminalization of drugs but would not demand of government public funds to educate and rehabilitate drug uses. The reason why decriminalization works is it breaks the "drug barons" economy and offers education and rehab provided by the state

[Stephthatackle]

@franks2732 The states would decide if they wanted to offer rehab programs for drug addicts. And I would say no to that even on the states level. Why do I as a consequence of your action become financially responsible for your rehabilitation treatment? As right wing as that may be, you have to admit my stance is logical and yours is not. ..

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle yes so you are a right wing fuckwit thanks for that

[Stephthatackle]

@franks2732 Explain your position..you responded to my comment, not vice versa...You like to rely on the government? Then move to SWEDEN! Don't try to destroy america spreading your ignorant rhetoric.

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle I am not an American and value the services my government provides, including rehab services for drug addicts, full unemployment payments until you get a job, 16 weeks full paid maternity leave, pensions for all sick people, pensions for all Elderly, full universal healthcare, $5000 for new families to pay for the cost of early childcare etc, $6000 towards a home loan deposit. We do this while having a balanced budget and an unemployment rate of 4.9%. Logical enough for you!

[franks2732]

Why not you stick your "logic" where the sun don't shine, I would rather deal in facts, reality not a make believe ideal. As I base logical argument in reality with reference to all available evidence. Not in emotion and rhetoric. Just because you imagine a world does not make it so, nor does that imaginary world prove your point. Fucking libturd libertarians LMFAO

[Stephthatackle]

@franks2732 If thats the country you like, great for you. But in america, what sets us apart is the ability to be successful without the government taking our money. You obviously can't except that quality because you are content with mooching off the wealthy in your country. Have fun, done here until someone respectful can come along to argue. You mam, are a joke.

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle Actually that is a lie, the government in the USA has been helping people out since it's inception.A fact that you blatantly ignore, but that is typical. And as for the rich, how do you think they got rich, (over 95%) via inheritance and off the back of the people who are employed in the companies they own. Without those workers or the people who buy their products they would not maintain their wealth. So the Rich owe US a favor, without the rest of us they would not be wealthy

[Stephthatackle]

@franks2732 'the government in the USA has been helping people out since it's inception.' Sure. But thats when the criteria was strict. The questions we used to ask for free healthcare and food stamps was ' Do you have legs?' and ' Do you have a sound mind'? Answer yes to both of those and you get nothing. It used to be a 76 to 1 productive life to government Dependant ratio in America back in the 60's. Now the ratio is 1 to 1. Do you not see how that is problematic?

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle Nope the criteria was not strict and that criteria was always open to change via amendments and still is. Your other crap is crap and simply bullshit

[Stephthatackle]

@franks2732 And if you think i'm pro corporations or pro- big business you got me and Wayne wrong! I'm pro small-business. In the entitlement classes efforts to stick it to the rich man, they are actually sticking it to small businesses.

[franks2732]

@Stephthatackle I don't care what you think you are, I care about what you believe and the results of your ideologies policy platform. Perhaps you should read the Libertarian party platform or Ron Paul's. The truth is they openly state policy that supports the top end of town. That is simply a fact

[Stephthatackle]

@franks2732 The amendments of the the constitution have nothing to do with reforming social security..I'm convinced, you don't have a clue what you are rambling about...

[thesparitan]

@captcrais101 Agreed