What most people dont no that the Nazis and the IRA had a plan called Operation Kathline it was the IRA who invade N.Ireland with 30,000 Troops and the germans would land 50,000 Troops at derry and use N.Ireland as a base to invade Britian and at he end of the war the would get N.Ireland to the R.Ireland as a United Ireland THAT SOULD HAVE HAPPENED
Although Irish men and women did fight in the British and Commonwealth's armies, the Republic of Ireland collectively, as a nation, did fuck-all, and didn't have the moral courage to fight against one of the most evil men of all time, Hitler. And de Valera actually conveyed his condolences to the Nazi ambassador in Dublin upon Hitler's death in April 1945! It's absolutely shameful, and the Irish like to talk about freedom, but don't give a continental fuck about the freedom of others! Wankers!
Just as the Irish supported the Kaiser in World War I, so too did they support the Fuhrer in World War II. It's a pity Germany didn't overrun the Irish Free State in 1940.
The documents in this video prove Ireland played its part in WW2. To suggest Irish people were Nazi sympathizers is a joke! Remember the league of fascists in England that had to be interned?? They wanted to collaborate with the Nazis.
Go visit a war grave in England, many Irish names among the fallen!!
@PatriotsGame The Proclamation of the Irish Republic in 1916 described the Germans as their "gallant allies". It was no different in World War II, even de Valera admitted he didn't know what he would do if the Germans landed in Derry.
@JuanMacready Last I checked de Valera was Taoiseach of Eire and Derry was in NI during the WW2. However, Dev knew exactly what he would do if the Nazis invaded Eire - there were secret plans to invite the British in from NI. A Royal Marine brigade was stationed in Wales just in case and a secret airbase was prepared in County Tipperary from where the RAF could launch counter attack on Nazi invaders.
The 'gallant allies' argument from 1916 is hardly relevant in 1939!
@JuanMacready Ah, thats only your pro-Nazi anti-Irishness talking Juan. Your more level-headed compatriots would have realised the folly of such a sentiment. You are just going to have to come to terms with the reality that Eire was a non-belligerent ally of the UK during WW2.
A simple 'thank you Eire for your assistance' is all thats required here.
@jratt2 Deliberately refusing to accept Jews. Refusing to ever criticize the Nazi regime despite de Valera knowing about the Holocaust from the beginning of 1943.
@JuanMacready Eire accepted 150 jews in1948! Dev has a stand of trees named in his honour in Jerusalem at the behest of Irish Jews. Also in 1943 at the Bermuda Conference to discuss rumours of Jewish suffering in Europe the UK point blank refused entry of Jewish refugees to Palestine, and US also refused them entry to their country. The UK rep. Sir Richard Law stated that the Jews were 'not a British problem'. The even excluded Jewish representatives from the conference! Look it up hypocrit!
@jratt2 As an historian you must be well aware of the fact that DeValera was "non belligererent" for self preservation reasons rather than anti nazi views.To call Eire an"ally" of the UK during WWII is a pervertion of the facts and ignores the fact that those from Eire,who did indeed align themselves with British/Allied forces during WWII were ignored and shunned by their countrymen and government alike!
@muv1912 Yes muv1912, Dev was neutral for self preservation reasons,but his anti-nazi, anti-communist and anti-british views all contributed to this. Calling Eire an ally may be a perversion to you, but I would argue that this is what the reality of Irish neutrality amounted too. My great-granduncle served in the British 8th Army, following a family tradition going back to the Boer War, and had no problems coming back to Ireland. That is just as much a fact as Cathal O'Shannons experience.
@jratt2 The only reason DeValera gave any support or allowed Britain access to airspace was because he knew that if there was an inkling that Ireland were to be invaded by or were to show support for nazi Germany he would have faced the full might of a war ready British army and its allies, something even dedicated republicanism couldn't have survived! He chose to remaim neutral and gave Britain a crumb of support to protect his own interests, he was hardly an ally!
@muv1912 How unsophisticated. Dev had no time for either Facism, Communism or Imperialism, but he made it clear to the Nazis that Eire would continue to trade and have links with the UK, as it was essential. The UK, worried about its western flank, approached the Irish with Plan W which allowed for an agreed UK intervention following a German invasion. Contacts were established between G2 and MI6. There was no such plan with Nazi Germany, even though Eire feared a British invasion for a time.
@jratt2 Unsopisticated? Let's be realistic here, DeValera played his cards well! Faced with the option of either a nazi takeover or a British occupation he chose "the devil he knew" and offered just enough, and no more! to avoid both.If the nazis had succeeded and invaded Britain, I have no doubt in my mind where his loyalties would have rested, I'd now be replying to Her jratt2, if that pleased Hitler!
@muv1912 Yes, unsophisticated: it is also realistic to consider that 20 yrs before it was the Crown that was threatening Irish liberty, burning towns/cities in retaliation to resistance, commiting atrocities against civilians even though an Election indicated the democratic will of the majority. You and I don't speak German but you know why we speak English, right?. If we're being realistic, joining with the UK would have split the population.Neutrality was the only realistic option for Eire.
@jratt2 Yes, there were many Irishmen fought alonside Britain in WWI, andWWII. One of the first VC of WWI was awarded to an Irishman.There are plaques and monuments dedicated to him in England and Belgium, I don't know of any in his hometown in Westmeath. I doubt if anyone in Westmeath could tell you his name, without googling it first!
@muv1912 Maurice Dease is commemorated at the National Garden of Remembrance in Dublin along with 49,000 other Irishmen who died in WW1. You will be interested to know that there has been spate of county by county publications on Irelands Great War Dead in recent years such is the level of interest in the subject. Of course, James Maginnis VC got no monument until recently in his home town because he was Belfast Catholic. So I'm glad to see we are not the only ones righting past wrongs.
@jratt2 I'm glad to hear that there is growing interest in the republic of those who fought for what they believed would "end all wars", I'm also glad that James Maginnis has received the recognition he rightly deserved,unfortunately too late for all of them! It's also refreshing to her someone say that both sides need to right past wrongs!
@muv1912 In the aftermath of the Great War remembrance of those who died was open and common in Ireland until the Second World War. The troubles in NI made it very difficult for Irish people to openly remember their ancestors who had served in the British Army in recent decades. The peace process allowed for an acknowledgement of ashared history with our Northern neighbours and this will continue to grow as the centenary of the Great War approaches. I think that is a good thing.
@jratt2 You are right, the second world war changed views and opinios, the peace process will also hopefully allow those in Northern Ireland who supported Great Britain to understand those who conspired with evil in an attempt to force their will on those who dissagreed with them! Bridge builders required, on Both sides!
@muv1912 The peace process can only create the space for understanding and reconciliation. There needs to be a fair bit of 'first take the plank out of your own eye...' before any actual understanding can come out of it. For instance, maybe enlightenment will allow the descendants of those who supported the UK to acknowledge the shared history the threat this conspiracy represents with the south, and the role it played in eliminating it.
@muv1912 I didn't expect you to prove my point so readily. Building bridges requires a foundation of common experience, but its a bridge too far for you still it seems.
@muv1912 (Someone else was signed in on the pc and I accidentally used their account).
I disagree, I can see my own point very clearly! I demonstrated a constructive area of common ground where there was a mutual threat from the IRA that the South dealt with it and you can't acknowledge it. How is that a plank in MY eye?
Don't worry, I know this mal-thinking infects BOTh sides of the divide in NI!!
@jratt2 LOL don't worry about the"someone else signed in "thing, it's amazing how often that happens, some of them even subscribe to themselves! The plank in your eye is preventing you seeing that the "mutual threat"as you call it was mostly aimed at those in Northern Ireland and Britain, can't recall any ira bombings in the south!As for the south "dealing with it" I seem to recall a former Taoiseach being implicated in attempting to suppy arms to the ira!
@muv1912 Ah! You merely misunderstand me. I was talking about WW2.
My point is that is that during WW2 the Irish Government suppressed the IRA which you rightly claim had cozied up to evil, by which you assume you mean the Nazis - a mutual threat.
A future Taoiseach was implicated in running guns to the IRA, an illegal organisation, and you are right, it was dealt with through the courts. It dates from a later period and has nothing to do with WW2.
@jratt2 no, you were talking about the peace process and understanding.It's a pity that those who died inWWI had to wait for recognition! WWII only compounded the belief held by unionists that the irish were willing to do anything to get rid of them! As i said, De Valera played his cards well,not through any dislike of of nazism or ira activity, but for self preservation!
@jratt2 As for your claim that "to suggest Irish people were nazi sympathizers is a joke" There is no evidence to suggest that the Irish government assisted Nazi Germany, though there is proof that some Irish politicians favoured the idea.There is also documented evidence that proves that the ira colluded with nazis and even drew up plans for the invasion of the north by nazis, assisted by the ira! PLAN KATHLEEN, no joke!!!
@muv1912 In common with the Ulster Unionist, you cannot differenciate between the Dev's Gov. and the IRA in WW2. This IRA didnt recognise the constitution of Eire, it was supressed, interned, some were allowed to die on hunger strike, two were exectued by Dev's Gov. because they invited trouble with the UK and an invasion by the Nazis. They were traitors to MY country just like Oswald Mosleys gang was to yours.
'To suggest Irish people were nazi sympathizers is a joke" still stands.
@JuanMacready Absolute shite. Thousands and thousands of Irishmen died fighting the Keiser including IRA men that went home and fought and died in the war against the British. Have you never heard of Redmondism.
As for WWII, unionist recruitment was the lowest in the UK and the arms factories in NI were also the worst.
That Nazi de Valera shjould have been hanged in 1916. It's a shame Churchill didn't overrun the whole country in May 1940 in response to its disgusting support for Nazi Germany.
Thats an intelligent thing to say! Plenty of Irish were in the RAF, fighting for the greater good. The British empire ruled 3quarters of the globe with an iron fist. Dont get on your moral high horse!
Wow more intelligent rantings! You ruled 3quarters of the globe now every town and city in England has about a 100 different languages because they followed you home. Is there any real English men left? Was your empire worth it? You colonized small nations now you have been colonized, the face of England/Britain will be lost forever with a couple of generations!!
@PatriotsGame Nah. Dave and Nick are already sorting taht out. If necessary we will have to have another war. I would worry more about your bankrupt economy, the "many much more painful cuts ahead", your anti-semitic people, your alcoholic prime minister and your pathetic anti-Israel stance. Oh, and your own Muslim population is pretty significant now.
Yeah i agree, the governments a joke. Islam is Ireland's fastest growing religion or cult. I'm not anti semitic i just believe Ireland should be ruled by Irish people for Irish people. A right every country and nation should have!
@JoeJuve2k7 actually, churchill made a very loose non-descript promise about the 6 counties to de valera for the use of the so called treaty ports for the duration of the war. churchill didn`t say-we will give you the 6 counties NOW for use of the treaty ports. after the war was over it was going to be an easy promise to renege on. churchill couldn`t afford to upset the unionists as he needed them as cannon fodder and de valera was a lot of things but he was no fool.
@restlesswave where did i say we would get them right NOW? britain was desperate this was obv made during the blitz there still could have been a good chance of negotiating a deal
@JoeJuve2k7 yeah churchill was desperate and de valera was enough of a realist not to court the shifting of the blitz to ireland on a loose promise of 6 county repatriation. you can`t make deals on a loose promise. if churchill was seriously thinking of a deal he would have offered the 6 counties right there and then-with clauses in it for retention off northern industries etc for the duration. and it was nothing to do with the blitz-it was about north atlantic supply lines.
@JoeJuve2k7 but if churchill was serious about any repatriation -he would have given it for the use of lough foyle which landed up the key to winning the battle of the atlantic along with the donegal air corridor, the western weather stations and the repatriation of british service men. it was an empty promise-dev knew it-and much as i hate the bastard-he was right on that issue.
@TheSoulboy90 no actually the waters round the coast of northern ireland actually are irish republic territorial waters-there was a mistake made in the wording in the partition document. so therefore the waters in lough foyle were viewed at the time as irish territory. even yet all the navigational markers etc round n.i. are serviced by the republic. canada and new zealand were part of the commonwealth-ireland obviousy was not.
"canada and new zealand were part of the commonwealth-ireland obviousy was not. "?
First of all, the Irish Republic did not exist before 1947. During WW2, Eire (as then was!), was indeed part of the Commonwealth, and was the only Commonwealth Nation NOT to declare war on Nazi Germany! Hence Churchill's anger with Dev for "skulking behind Britannia's skirts", but refusing to help in the defense!
@TheSoulboy90 commonwealth by default -not by choice. where in any of my posts have you got the idea that i was anti british in regards to the war years? - i was only pointing out the realities behind the whole churchill/dev neutrality scenario. i only pointed out that churchills promise was at best dubious. but in fairness to ireland they were willing to set aside any claim to lough foyle for the duration.
"churchill couldn`t afford to upset the unionists as he needed them as cannon fodder"?
You don't seem to have taken Churchill's offer seriously? And you do know that there was no conscription in NI? That bizarrely, was reserved for the English, Scots & Welsh for some reason I can't get to the bottom of.
I got the impression from your posts, not that you were anti-Brit, but pro-Neutrality?
P.S. Have you watched "De Valera: Ireland's Hated Hero"? Very interesting stuff.
"churchill couldn`t afford to upset the unionists as he needed them as cannon fodder"?
You don't seem to have taken Churchill's offer seriously? And you do know that there was no conscription in NI? That bizarrely, was reserved for the English, Scots & Welsh for some reason I can't get to the bottom of.
I got the impression from your posts, not that you were anti-Brit, but pro-Neutrality?
P.S. Have you watched "De Valera: Ireland's Hated Hero"? Very interesting stuff
@TheSoulboy90 no-that was the point-churchill was a desperate leader making promises that he may not have been fit to keep. as for pro neutrality-the ideals of extending our limited resources to the allies at the time may or may not have been the right move-we had little to offer the allied war machine only man power-shortly before we paid a heavy price and our soldiers came back despised-it`s ok for us now to take the moral high ground-but times were different in the 40`s
"we had little to offer the allied war machine only man power-"
True, but as far as I know, all Churchill asked for, was the use of the Treaty Ports and possibly an airbase, for the protection of the Atlantic convoys.
Let's be brutally honest, Eire's survival free from Nazi occupation, NEEDED the UK to stay unconquered. It was totally in OUR own vested interests, to do all we could to help ensure the "Auld Enemy's" survival, for our own!
@TheSoulboy90 even in WWI there was no conscription in ireland-the irish were all volunteers-be it the 16th,10th or 36st divisions. as i said before i hate dev but just think that this time he was right not to take churchills offer seriously-but then again-we`ll never know.
You should watch the vid I mentioned or "Churchill vs De Valera". In it, Irish Historians offer a very different explanation for Dev's refusal. They believe Churchill's offer was genuine, but ultimately adding nearly 1 Million Northern Protestants to the electorate, would have made Dev's Pro-Catholic Fianna Fail Party unelactable!
So he passed on the offer, rather than face the political wilderness!
@TheSoulboy90 as somebody who had more than his fair share of relatives fought with the british armies in the first war-i completely agree-i was actually born in the uk-so you don`t need to lecture me-we are on the same page so to speak.
What a shame. The Germans never bothered the Irish throughout history. In fact the Germans helped bring supplies to the Heroes of Easter 1916. All these nations that fought against their Christian German brothers paid the same fate as Germany in the long run...the destruction of Our People!
What most people dont no that the Nazis and the IRA had a plan called Operation Kathline it was the IRA who invade N.Ireland with 30,000 Troops and the germans would land 50,000 Troops at derry and use N.Ireland as a base to invade Britian and at he end of the war the would get N.Ireland to the R.Ireland as a United Ireland THAT SOULD HAVE HAPPENED
xEcGAirborne 1 week ago
Although Irish men and women did fight in the British and Commonwealth's armies, the Republic of Ireland collectively, as a nation, did fuck-all, and didn't have the moral courage to fight against one of the most evil men of all time, Hitler. And de Valera actually conveyed his condolences to the Nazi ambassador in Dublin upon Hitler's death in April 1945! It's absolutely shameful, and the Irish like to talk about freedom, but don't give a continental fuck about the freedom of others! Wankers!
MrAlban003 1 month ago
what is this documentary called?
macca1987 2 months ago
Just as the Irish supported the Kaiser in World War I, so too did they support the Fuhrer in World War II. It's a pity Germany didn't overrun the Irish Free State in 1940.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready
The documents in this video prove Ireland played its part in WW2. To suggest Irish people were Nazi sympathizers is a joke! Remember the league of fascists in England that had to be interned?? They wanted to collaborate with the Nazis.
Go visit a war grave in England, many Irish names among the fallen!!
PatriotsGame 1 year ago 4
@PatriotsGame The Proclamation of the Irish Republic in 1916 described the Germans as their "gallant allies". It was no different in World War II, even de Valera admitted he didn't know what he would do if the Germans landed in Derry.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready Last I checked de Valera was Taoiseach of Eire and Derry was in NI during the WW2. However, Dev knew exactly what he would do if the Nazis invaded Eire - there were secret plans to invite the British in from NI. A Royal Marine brigade was stationed in Wales just in case and a secret airbase was prepared in County Tipperary from where the RAF could launch counter attack on Nazi invaders.
The 'gallant allies' argument from 1916 is hardly relevant in 1939!
jratt2 1 year ago
@jratt2 If the Nazis had invaded southern Ireland we should have just let them take over.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready Ah, thats only your pro-Nazi anti-Irishness talking Juan. Your more level-headed compatriots would have realised the folly of such a sentiment. You are just going to have to come to terms with the reality that Eire was a non-belligerent ally of the UK during WW2.
A simple 'thank you Eire for your assistance' is all thats required here.
jratt2 1 year ago
@jratt2 Yes, thank you southern Ireland for directly supporting the Nazi regime.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready I'm actually starting to think you're just thick.
Please outline the direct support you claim 'southern' Ireland gave to the Nazi regime. Just for my amusment.
jratt2 1 year ago
@jratt2 Deliberately refusing to accept Jews. Refusing to ever criticize the Nazi regime despite de Valera knowing about the Holocaust from the beginning of 1943.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready Eire accepted 150 jews in1948! Dev has a stand of trees named in his honour in Jerusalem at the behest of Irish Jews. Also in 1943 at the Bermuda Conference to discuss rumours of Jewish suffering in Europe the UK point blank refused entry of Jewish refugees to Palestine, and US also refused them entry to their country. The UK rep. Sir Richard Law stated that the Jews were 'not a British problem'. The even excluded Jewish representatives from the conference! Look it up hypocrit!
jratt2 1 year ago
@jratt2 1948? Bit late then! De Valera was a good Nazi.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@jratt2 As an historian you must be well aware of the fact that DeValera was "non belligererent" for self preservation reasons rather than anti nazi views.To call Eire an"ally" of the UK during WWII is a pervertion of the facts and ignores the fact that those from Eire,who did indeed align themselves with British/Allied forces during WWII were ignored and shunned by their countrymen and government alike!
muv1912 10 months ago
@muv1912 Yes muv1912, Dev was neutral for self preservation reasons,but his anti-nazi, anti-communist and anti-british views all contributed to this. Calling Eire an ally may be a perversion to you, but I would argue that this is what the reality of Irish neutrality amounted too. My great-granduncle served in the British 8th Army, following a family tradition going back to the Boer War, and had no problems coming back to Ireland. That is just as much a fact as Cathal O'Shannons experience.
jratt2 6 months ago
@jratt2 The only reason DeValera gave any support or allowed Britain access to airspace was because he knew that if there was an inkling that Ireland were to be invaded by or were to show support for nazi Germany he would have faced the full might of a war ready British army and its allies, something even dedicated republicanism couldn't have survived! He chose to remaim neutral and gave Britain a crumb of support to protect his own interests, he was hardly an ally!
muv1912 6 months ago
@muv1912 How unsophisticated. Dev had no time for either Facism, Communism or Imperialism, but he made it clear to the Nazis that Eire would continue to trade and have links with the UK, as it was essential. The UK, worried about its western flank, approached the Irish with Plan W which allowed for an agreed UK intervention following a German invasion. Contacts were established between G2 and MI6. There was no such plan with Nazi Germany, even though Eire feared a British invasion for a time.
jratt2 6 months ago
@jratt2 Unsopisticated? Let's be realistic here, DeValera played his cards well! Faced with the option of either a nazi takeover or a British occupation he chose "the devil he knew" and offered just enough, and no more! to avoid both.If the nazis had succeeded and invaded Britain, I have no doubt in my mind where his loyalties would have rested, I'd now be replying to Her jratt2, if that pleased Hitler!
muv1912 6 months ago
@muv1912 Yes, unsophisticated: it is also realistic to consider that 20 yrs before it was the Crown that was threatening Irish liberty, burning towns/cities in retaliation to resistance, commiting atrocities against civilians even though an Election indicated the democratic will of the majority. You and I don't speak German but you know why we speak English, right?. If we're being realistic, joining with the UK would have split the population.Neutrality was the only realistic option for Eire.
jratt2 6 months ago
@jratt2 Yes, there were many Irishmen fought alonside Britain in WWI, andWWII. One of the first VC of WWI was awarded to an Irishman.There are plaques and monuments dedicated to him in England and Belgium, I don't know of any in his hometown in Westmeath. I doubt if anyone in Westmeath could tell you his name, without googling it first!
muv1912 6 months ago
@muv1912 Maurice Dease is commemorated at the National Garden of Remembrance in Dublin along with 49,000 other Irishmen who died in WW1. You will be interested to know that there has been spate of county by county publications on Irelands Great War Dead in recent years such is the level of interest in the subject. Of course, James Maginnis VC got no monument until recently in his home town because he was Belfast Catholic. So I'm glad to see we are not the only ones righting past wrongs.
jratt2 6 months ago
@jratt2 I'm glad to hear that there is growing interest in the republic of those who fought for what they believed would "end all wars", I'm also glad that James Maginnis has received the recognition he rightly deserved,unfortunately too late for all of them! It's also refreshing to her someone say that both sides need to right past wrongs!
muv1912 6 months ago
@muv1912 In the aftermath of the Great War remembrance of those who died was open and common in Ireland until the Second World War. The troubles in NI made it very difficult for Irish people to openly remember their ancestors who had served in the British Army in recent decades. The peace process allowed for an acknowledgement of ashared history with our Northern neighbours and this will continue to grow as the centenary of the Great War approaches. I think that is a good thing.
jratt2 6 months ago
@jratt2 You are right, the second world war changed views and opinios, the peace process will also hopefully allow those in Northern Ireland who supported Great Britain to understand those who conspired with evil in an attempt to force their will on those who dissagreed with them! Bridge builders required, on Both sides!
muv1912 6 months ago
@muv1912 The peace process can only create the space for understanding and reconciliation. There needs to be a fair bit of 'first take the plank out of your own eye...' before any actual understanding can come out of it. For instance, maybe enlightenment will allow the descendants of those who supported the UK to acknowledge the shared history the threat this conspiracy represents with the south, and the role it played in eliminating it.
A more constructive outcome to your example?
jratt2 6 months ago
@jratt2 you should heed your own advise, you seem to have a plank in your eye too!
muv1912 5 months ago
@muv1912 I didn't expect you to prove my point so readily. Building bridges requires a foundation of common experience, but its a bridge too far for you still it seems.
5803mark 5 months ago
@5803mark LOL,you've proved your own point, only you cant see it for the plank!
muv1912 5 months ago
@muv1912 (Someone else was signed in on the pc and I accidentally used their account).
I disagree, I can see my own point very clearly! I demonstrated a constructive area of common ground where there was a mutual threat from the IRA that the South dealt with it and you can't acknowledge it. How is that a plank in MY eye?
Don't worry, I know this mal-thinking infects BOTh sides of the divide in NI!!
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2 LOL don't worry about the"someone else signed in "thing, it's amazing how often that happens, some of them even subscribe to themselves! The plank in your eye is preventing you seeing that the "mutual threat"as you call it was mostly aimed at those in Northern Ireland and Britain, can't recall any ira bombings in the south!As for the south "dealing with it" I seem to recall a former Taoiseach being implicated in attempting to suppy arms to the ira!
muv1912 5 months ago
@muv1912 Ah! You merely misunderstand me. I was talking about WW2.
My point is that is that during WW2 the Irish Government suppressed the IRA which you rightly claim had cozied up to evil, by which you assume you mean the Nazis - a mutual threat.
A future Taoiseach was implicated in running guns to the IRA, an illegal organisation, and you are right, it was dealt with through the courts. It dates from a later period and has nothing to do with WW2.
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2 no, you were talking about the peace process and understanding.It's a pity that those who died inWWI had to wait for recognition! WWII only compounded the belief held by unionists that the irish were willing to do anything to get rid of them! As i said, De Valera played his cards well,not through any dislike of of nazism or ira activity, but for self preservation!
muv1912 5 months ago
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jratt2 5 months ago
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@muv1912 Indeed I was, and in the context of WW2.
'WWII only compounded the belief held by unionists that the irish were willing to do anything to get rid of them!'
If we had joined the war with the Allies do you really think they would have thought any differently? Such is the mindset of the Planter methinks.
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2 As for your claim that "to suggest Irish people were nazi sympathizers is a joke" There is no evidence to suggest that the Irish government assisted Nazi Germany, though there is proof that some Irish politicians favoured the idea.There is also documented evidence that proves that the ira colluded with nazis and even drew up plans for the invasion of the north by nazis, assisted by the ira! PLAN KATHLEEN, no joke!!!
muv1912 6 months ago
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@muv1912 In common with the Ulster Unionist, you cannot differenciate between the Dev's Gov. and the IRA in WW2. This IRA didnt recognise the constitution of Eire, it was supressed, interned, some were allowed to die on hunger strike, two were exectued by Dev's Gov. because they invited trouble with the UK and an invasion by the Nazis. They were traitors to MY country just like Oswald Mosleys gang was to yours.
'To suggest Irish people were nazi sympathizers is a joke" still stands.
jratt2 6 months ago
@PatriotsGame Lots of Irish names. Most of them however were Ulstermen.
Ireland was neutral in World War II. However, we all know who they were being neutral against :)
vandpubsell 6 months ago
@JuanMacready
that would have been fun.
Thank you thank you thankyou England...
O!! No! I should Say Thank you America!!!
6079smythw 1 year ago
@JuanMacready im irish and my grandfather fought the Nazis and died
MARVELGUY5000 11 months ago
@JuanMacready Absolute shite. Thousands and thousands of Irishmen died fighting the Keiser including IRA men that went home and fought and died in the war against the British. Have you never heard of Redmondism.
As for WWII, unionist recruitment was the lowest in the UK and the arms factories in NI were also the worst.
MERVILLE3 2 months ago
That Nazi de Valera shjould have been hanged in 1916. It's a shame Churchill didn't overrun the whole country in May 1940 in response to its disgusting support for Nazi Germany.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready
This video proves Ireland was against the Nazis. We were against the British empire also which was almost as bad!
PatriotsGame 1 year ago
@PatriotsGame The RAF should have reduced Dublin to rubble.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready
Thats an intelligent thing to say! Plenty of Irish were in the RAF, fighting for the greater good. The British empire ruled 3quarters of the globe with an iron fist. Dont get on your moral high horse!
PatriotsGame 1 year ago
@PatriotsGame Yes we civilised three quarters of the globe. We should have dropped the first atomic bomb on southern Ireland, not Japan.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready
Wow more intelligent rantings! You ruled 3quarters of the globe now every town and city in England has about a 100 different languages because they followed you home. Is there any real English men left? Was your empire worth it? You colonized small nations now you have been colonized, the face of England/Britain will be lost forever with a couple of generations!!
PatriotsGame 1 year ago
@PatriotsGame Nah. Dave and Nick are already sorting taht out. If necessary we will have to have another war. I would worry more about your bankrupt economy, the "many much more painful cuts ahead", your anti-semitic people, your alcoholic prime minister and your pathetic anti-Israel stance. Oh, and your own Muslim population is pretty significant now.
JuanMacready 1 year ago
@JuanMacready
Yeah i agree, the governments a joke. Islam is Ireland's fastest growing religion or cult. I'm not anti semitic i just believe Ireland should be ruled by Irish people for Irish people. A right every country and nation should have!
PatriotsGame 1 year ago
@PatriotsGame
Sir, you are arguing with a boy who survives on a spinal column alone! I don't think his carer even knows he gets on here unsupervised!
Oh, and 30,000 Irishmen volunteered to fight with the Brits in WW2, in addition to those from the North that is! Thought you should know.
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
mad thing is churchill actually offered de valera the 6 counties back if Ireland joined the war imagine how much that would've changed our history
JoeJuve2k7 1 year ago
@JoeJuve2k7 actually, churchill made a very loose non-descript promise about the 6 counties to de valera for the use of the so called treaty ports for the duration of the war. churchill didn`t say-we will give you the 6 counties NOW for use of the treaty ports. after the war was over it was going to be an easy promise to renege on. churchill couldn`t afford to upset the unionists as he needed them as cannon fodder and de valera was a lot of things but he was no fool.
restlesswave 1 year ago
@restlesswave where did i say we would get them right NOW? britain was desperate this was obv made during the blitz there still could have been a good chance of negotiating a deal
JoeJuve2k7 1 year ago
@JoeJuve2k7 yeah churchill was desperate and de valera was enough of a realist not to court the shifting of the blitz to ireland on a loose promise of 6 county repatriation. you can`t make deals on a loose promise. if churchill was seriously thinking of a deal he would have offered the 6 counties right there and then-with clauses in it for retention off northern industries etc for the duration. and it was nothing to do with the blitz-it was about north atlantic supply lines.
restlesswave 1 year ago
@JoeJuve2k7 but if churchill was serious about any repatriation -he would have given it for the use of lough foyle which landed up the key to winning the battle of the atlantic along with the donegal air corridor, the western weather stations and the repatriation of british service men. it was an empty promise-dev knew it-and much as i hate the bastard-he was right on that issue.
restlesswave 1 year ago
@restlesswave
Lough Foyle and the port of Derry were/are in the North! And why did Eire need bribed into the War? Did the Canadians, New Zealanders etc?
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
@TheSoulboy90 no actually the waters round the coast of northern ireland actually are irish republic territorial waters-there was a mistake made in the wording in the partition document. so therefore the waters in lough foyle were viewed at the time as irish territory. even yet all the navigational markers etc round n.i. are serviced by the republic. canada and new zealand were part of the commonwealth-ireland obviousy was not.
restlesswave 1 year ago
@restlesswave
"canada and new zealand were part of the commonwealth-ireland obviousy was not. "?
First of all, the Irish Republic did not exist before 1947. During WW2, Eire (as then was!), was indeed part of the Commonwealth, and was the only Commonwealth Nation NOT to declare war on Nazi Germany! Hence Churchill's anger with Dev for "skulking behind Britannia's skirts", but refusing to help in the defense!
Please feel free to check?
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
@TheSoulboy90 commonwealth by default -not by choice. where in any of my posts have you got the idea that i was anti british in regards to the war years? - i was only pointing out the realities behind the whole churchill/dev neutrality scenario. i only pointed out that churchills promise was at best dubious. but in fairness to ireland they were willing to set aside any claim to lough foyle for the duration.
restlesswave 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@restlesswave
"churchill couldn`t afford to upset the unionists as he needed them as cannon fodder"?
You don't seem to have taken Churchill's offer seriously? And you do know that there was no conscription in NI? That bizarrely, was reserved for the English, Scots & Welsh for some reason I can't get to the bottom of.
I got the impression from your posts, not that you were anti-Brit, but pro-Neutrality?
P.S. Have you watched "De Valera: Ireland's Hated Hero"? Very interesting stuff.
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
@restlesswave
"churchill couldn`t afford to upset the unionists as he needed them as cannon fodder"?
You don't seem to have taken Churchill's offer seriously? And you do know that there was no conscription in NI? That bizarrely, was reserved for the English, Scots & Welsh for some reason I can't get to the bottom of.
I got the impression from your posts, not that you were anti-Brit, but pro-Neutrality?
P.S. Have you watched "De Valera: Ireland's Hated Hero"? Very interesting stuff
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
@TheSoulboy90 no-that was the point-churchill was a desperate leader making promises that he may not have been fit to keep. as for pro neutrality-the ideals of extending our limited resources to the allies at the time may or may not have been the right move-we had little to offer the allied war machine only man power-shortly before we paid a heavy price and our soldiers came back despised-it`s ok for us now to take the moral high ground-but times were different in the 40`s
restlesswave 1 year ago
@restlesswave
"we had little to offer the allied war machine only man power-"
True, but as far as I know, all Churchill asked for, was the use of the Treaty Ports and possibly an airbase, for the protection of the Atlantic convoys.
Let's be brutally honest, Eire's survival free from Nazi occupation, NEEDED the UK to stay unconquered. It was totally in OUR own vested interests, to do all we could to help ensure the "Auld Enemy's" survival, for our own!
30,000 Irishmen saw this!
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
@TheSoulboy90 even in WWI there was no conscription in ireland-the irish were all volunteers-be it the 16th,10th or 36st divisions. as i said before i hate dev but just think that this time he was right not to take churchills offer seriously-but then again-we`ll never know.
restlesswave 1 year ago
@restlesswave
You should watch the vid I mentioned or "Churchill vs De Valera". In it, Irish Historians offer a very different explanation for Dev's refusal. They believe Churchill's offer was genuine, but ultimately adding nearly 1 Million Northern Protestants to the electorate, would have made Dev's Pro-Catholic Fianna Fail Party unelactable!
So he passed on the offer, rather than face the political wilderness!
Watch it for yourself. It's well argued.
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
@restlesswave
One other thing, Frank Ryan's men fought alongside "Brits" from Tyneside & Clydeside in the Spanish Civil War, they were allies against Fascism!
Never, did being Irish mean one had to support Nazism against our brothers from UK?
We have more in common than you would like to admit Sir!
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
@TheSoulboy90 as somebody who had more than his fair share of relatives fought with the british armies in the first war-i completely agree-i was actually born in the uk-so you don`t need to lecture me-we are on the same page so to speak.
restlesswave 1 year ago
@JoeJuve2k7
Churchill actually sent a telegram saying "Now's your chance. Now or never, a Nation once again" too.
I can't see why Eire needed to be bribed into fighting the Nazis. Wasn't what they were and did enough to want to oppose them?
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
Comment removed
10urquhart 1 year ago
@10urquhart
Hey all you would need to know would be "Seih Heil!" and practice your salute!
TheSoulboy90 1 year ago
What a shame. The Germans never bothered the Irish throughout history. In fact the Germans helped bring supplies to the Heroes of Easter 1916. All these nations that fought against their Christian German brothers paid the same fate as Germany in the long run...the destruction of Our People!
GOTT MIT UNS-1776-ERIN GO BRAGH
FreiMarienburg 1 year ago
What program was this called? thanks
brandonlovesmonkeys 1 year ago
@brandonlovesmonkeys coast
you can watch it on bbc's i player
PatriotsGame 1 year ago
@PatriotsGame thank you , but it wont let me because im not in the uk
brandonlovesmonkeys 1 year ago