Lawrence O'Donnell With Frank Gaffney and David Rivkin On Torture (HQ)

[TheTommyhayu]

Lawrence, Lawrence, Lawrence what are we gonna' do with you...this guy is so callous to anyone's actual life experience it is the pinnacle of irony that he is discussing torture in what he would call an intelligent manner. My label maker doesn't have enough characters to fit an accurate description of what Lawrence O'Donnell actually is...it would certainly start with the bold letters saying:  WARNING...as I mentioned he is callous and cold to a fault. MSNBC is the network of angry snakes...

[Patrick5009]

many many people under extraordinary rendition were taken to other countries eg Algeria, to be tortured there. And saying only a few people were tortured is besides the point. Disgusting.

[ThePelicans44]

Lawrence O' Donnell, this guy doesn't listen to anything anyone says. What an angry one sided closed minded prick.. and a sissy

[JSellNYC]

@DioGuardiFAN

Agreed, I cant stand this guy, or any host who comes in looking to tar the guests and not listen to anything they say.

[DioGuardiFAN]

Lawrence O'Donnell is a total clown. He can only resort to personal attacks. Why is he so light on the details and so hostile to his guests. He clearly has a closed mind.

[beeshor1]

Also, since this clip was released, the documents that Cheney wanted released that Rivkin talks about here have been released and they don't show any proof that EITs led to intel that prevented attacks. These people are full of shit and should all be locked up.

[beeshor1]

These right wing assholes are nothing more than a bunch of fucking sadists. They knew damn well that this shit doesn't work. They only wanted to make these people say what they wanted them to say.

[topcat42]

You left wing loons would rather serve terrorists milk & cookies.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You right-wing idiots don't understand that there is a lot that can be done between serving milk and cookies and torturing people. Those aren't the only choices available to us. But you idiots don't get it. Either you torture people or you have to be serving milk and cookies. What about using traditional interrogation tactics? Which, BTW, is what produced any real valuable intel according to the FBI. So, what did the torturing accomplish other than lowering our image?

[topcat42]

What did we do that was torture?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Waterboarding is considered torture by the Geneva Conventions and by our own government. What are you talking about?

[topcat42]

Really? Then why does our own government waterboard our own Americans? You mean Obama approves of torturing his own people?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Our government waterboards some of the Navy Seals recruits to prepare them for what the enemy may do. They don't do it 183 times to Seals' recruits like it was done to KSM. There is NO justification for this nonsense. It didn't provide any valuable intel that prevented anything. It didn't lead to anyone being captured. All it was used for was to justify our BS war in Iraq. The people who sanctioned this should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[topcat42]

So our Government TORTURES It's own people according to you, correct?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Yes. It does it. So what's your point?

[topcat42]

My point is you have no problem with our own Government torturing It's own people, yet you are up in arms with terrorists getting tortured.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You trying to compare what happens to Seals on a very limited basis to what was done to alleged terrorists? That's ridiculous. Every Seal knows it's only going to be done once or however many times they have predetermined but that isn't the case with this situation. You must see the difference but you're so blinded by partisanship that you won't admit that a wrong was done by right-wing government officials. Too bad. It's that kind of thinking that's destroying this country.

[topcat42]

Alleged terrorists? KSM is an ALLEGED terrorist? Talk about ridiculous.

Yes I am comparing waterboarding to waterboarding, imagine that? Now you try and define torture by how many times it is used? You're so blinded by ideology that you have no problem with Americans getiing tortured (according to you) but have a major problem with KSM getting waterbarded a KNOWN terrorist.

ALLEGED? This is what is bringing this great country down, you loons can't even call a known terrorist a TERRORIST.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

I'll concede that KSM is a terrorist. But you can't compare being waterboarded 183 times to what a Seal goes through. That Seal KNOWS he's not being subjected to continuous waterboarding, sleep deprivation, cold cells and god knows what else. That SEAL knows that as soon as his waterboarding is over, it's over. Much like the guys who thought WB-ing wasn't torture and tried it only to come to the conclusion that it IS torture. They only suffered it once. You can't compare the two.

[topcat42]

Again, so according to you It's ok to torture once in a while but not all the time? If you think waterboarding is torture, It doesn't matter how many times it is done. I will indeed compare a Navy Seal getting tortured (according to you) to a terrorist getting tortured (according to you).

KSM was tortured 183 times and is still alive? Damn that is some kind of torture. This guy must be some kind of super hero to get tortured (according to you) 183 times and still be walking and talking.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

It isn't ACCORDING TO ME. It's ACCORDING to the Geneva Conventions. Which we have signed and pledged to adhere to. You keep saying that it's according to me. Waterboarding is considered torture by every civilized government in the world. Now, because we've done it, you want to change it's characterization. That's rich. Well, that's precisely why we're not that popular in the world. When we do something, it's OK. That's BS.

[topcat42]

According to the Geneva Convention, terrorists are not protected by the GC because they wear no uniform.

Waterboarding is not considered torture by every civilized government in the world, you are making shit up s you go along here.

KSM was TORTURED 183 times and is still walking and talking and about to take the stand in New York and praise his God and say how happy he was about 9/11 because this buffoon of a President we have is going to all ow it? Shouldn't he be dead after torture 183?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Name one civilized government that doesn't consider waterboarding torture. You're the one making up shit. Plus, since when does torture have to lead to death? There are children who have been tortured by there warped parents for YEARS and they're still alive. I guess you wouldn't call what some of them have been through torture either? It's really funny that you condone this BS.

[topcat42]

Hey pal YOU'RE the one that stated EVERY civilized country considers waterboarding torture, prove it. Put up all the links of them stating waterboarding is torture.

Well point out what what was done to the children 183 times that was torture.

It's really hilarious that you are more concerned with terrorists getting waterboarded than you are Americans. Oh yeah that's right they're not being tortured because they get a warm cell after, lol what a hoot.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

And hell yes I have a problem with people being tortured by our government and then lying and saying it was all done in the name of national security. It was done so that we could get into a BS war with Iraq that enriched to coffers of crooks like Cheney and his cronies at Haliburton.

[topcat42]

Now we are getting to the bottom of this. Do you have a problem with our own Americans getting tortured by our Government or just the terrorists?

We tortured (according to you) terrorists so we could go into Iraq so Cheney could get rich?

Please continue, your true colors are now beginning to shine through.

Was 9/11 an inside job so we Cheney and Bush could get rich in Iraq?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

What are you talking about? Our government does what it does to SEALS on a very limited and predetermined basis. I don't accept the notion that what was done to KSM is equal to that. What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? I'm not an insane "truther". I know that Al Quaeda was behind it but what does that have to do with Iraq? What do you mean, "my true colors"? I'll say it without ambiguity. Torturing KSM yielded NOTHING but an excuse for war that wasn't necessary.

[topcat42]

I love how you make excuse for Americans getting tortured but not for a few KNOWN TERRORISTS.

What planet are you on? What does waterboarding KSM have to do with going into IRAQ?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

It wasn't KSM who provided the intel that helped justify the war in Iraq. It was the other guy. I forget his name but I can look it up for you. He was the guy who they waterboarded until they got him to say that there was a link between Al-Quaeda and Saddam. That's how they sold us the war. By saying that Saddam helped or had something to do with 9/11. It was a bold-faced lie.

[topcat42]

We didn't go to war with Iraq because of what KSM said. That had nothing to do with it. We went to war with Iraq because he was thought to have WMD's and wasn't letting the inspectors in to find out. We weren't going to take any chances after 9/11 and he is now hanging at the end of a rope, BRAVO. He cried wolf one too many times by saying he had WMD's.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

The WMDs was part of it. But they also sold us on the notion that he had something to do with 9/11. Now, they point to Democrats and say that they said he had WMDs too. But the WMDs that dems spoke of were of the chemical variety. The Bush administration sold us on the BS notion of a threatening "mushroom cloud" that Saddam had in store for us. It was the biggest BS lie we've ever been told by our government in my lifetime.

[topcat42]

No they didn't sell us on it that 9/11 was involved by Saddam Hussein.

Man you sure do spew shit when you are losing a debate. Democrats stated Saddam had weapons of mass destruction just like Republicans did. Democrats never specified of the chemical variety, lol man what a trip. You want to me grab the quotes from Clinton on WMD's and Hussein?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Yes, please point out where Clinton said that Saddam had weapons of a nuclear nature. We knew he had chemical weapons because HE GOT THEM FROM US!! We may have suspected him of trying to acquire nukes but Clinton never said he HAD nukes. I'm not losing shit. You're the one who keeps trying to say that what was done to KSM is the same as what we do to the SEALS. That's just ridiculous.

[topcat42]

President Clinton urged Americans to be ready for a possible attack on Iraq, and he warned that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had used biological weapons against his own people -- and would likely use the weapons again unless he were prevented from doing so.

Hussein, said the president, "threatens the security of all the rest of us."

Now spin your way out of that one.

Also show me where Bush said Hussein had NUKES.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Oh, you don't remember the "mushroom cloud" speech? Bush delivered that beauty right before we invaded Iraq. Again, your words about Clinton don't point to any nuclear threat. Where is it?

[topcat42]

Clinton stated that Hussein was a threat to the security to the rest of us and we may have to to to war with Iraq because of it. What part of that do you not understand? So because he didn't state "mushroom cloud" is suppose to make a difference?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Clinton said we "may" have to go to war. He didn't say that if we didn't, we'd awaken to a mushroom cloud. They knew he didn't possess any nukes. That's why Valerie Plame was outted. Because they were desperate to get everyone on the bandwagon. There were people in intel that told them that Saddam didn't have nukes. It was BS.

[topcat42]

Well show me where Bush stated if we didn't go to war we would wake up to a mushroom cloud.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

These were Bush's word's on Oct. 6th, 2002:

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."

[topcat42]

There you go again. Now you stated Bush said we WOULD AWAKEN TO A MUSHROOM CLOUD.

What is it with you far lefters, is it something in the brain that makes you take quotes out of context in order to bolster your claims? Why can't you just deal in reality? Bush never stated we would wake up to a mushroom cloud.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You're really an idiot. I never quoted Bush word for word in that comment. I said that Bush said that if didn't go to war we were in danger of a nuclear attack. I wasn't quoting him verbatim. His message is still the same: If we don't act now, we'll be opening the door for a nuclear attack. Same thing.

[topcat42]

Really, you said if we didn't go to war we WERE IN DANGER of a nuclear attack?

Let's see what you really said shall we?

Clinton said we may have to go to war. He didn't say that if we didn't, WE'D AWAKEN to a mushroom cloud.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Oh, so saying that if we don't act we would be in danger of a nuclear attack isn't the same as saying that if we don't act we'll awaken to a mushroom cloud? Oh, well excuse me but I don't see a huge difference in that. But I do see that all you're doing is arguing what you perceive is a difference in meaning of my words as opposed to THE ACTUAL POINT. That's because you can't get passed the fact that we tortured and we were wrong, period.

[topcat42]

Yes BIG difference. Do you not see the difference? Bush never said we would awaken to a mushroom cloud if we didn't go to war. He said that we MAY if we didn't take action. When I gave you Clinton's statement I gave you the exact quote I didn''t try and hype it up.

I agree 100% of the waterboarding of these 3 known American killing terrorists.

Was it ok for our own government to waterboard It's own people?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Our own people willingly allow themselves to be waterboarded. They know beforehand that they won't be subjected to it for any sustained period. That's completely different. If you allow yourself to be waterboarded, why should I object?

[topcat42]

Oh ok, at first you said waterboarding isn't torture if you get a warm cell after It's performed and now It's not torture if you submit yourself to it. This is better than Saturday Night Live!

I have ZERO problem with these 3 known American plotting killer terrorists getting waterboarded. KSM was waterboarded 183 times and he is walking around and ready to take the stand and spew his shit in front of the family victims thanks to retarded Obama.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You're a real joke! You have nothing gained from this brutal crap but you'll defend it to the death. Our people allow themselves to be waterboarded for short periods of predetermined time but to you it's the same thing as KSM. You won't admit there's a HUGE difference but that's to be expected. You idiots always never see what's plain as day.

[topcat42]

Plenty has been gained. It is well documented that we thwarted numerous attacks by getting confessions from these cowards that were waterboarded. Are you denying this now?

Does it state in the Geneva Convention that there are certain degrees of waterboarding to be considered torture? Or does it say waterboarding is torture? Fill me in.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Oh really? What attacks were thwarted? Every bit of intel that they claim thwarted an attack was actually garned BEFORE the torture began. So what are you talking about?

[topcat42]

They helped us break up a cell of Southeast Asian terrorist operatives that had been groomed for attacks inside the United States. They helped us disrupt an al Qaeda operation to develop anthrax for terrorist attacks. They helped us stop a planned strike on a U.S. Marine camp in Djibouti, and to prevent a planned attack on the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, and to foil a plot to hijack passenger planes and to fly them into Heathrow Airport and London's Canary Wharf."[65]

[beeshor1]

@topcat

So, you're claiming that EITs produced all that intel? Who provided it?

[topcat42]

I am claiming that after Abu Zubaydah, Ramzi Binalshibh, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed were waterboarded they sung like birds and saved thousands of American lives.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You have absolutely NO proof that anything that came from those guys after waterboarding saved a life. In fact, according to the FBI, EVERYTHING that was of use that we got from those guys came BEFORE the torturing took place. You are completely asshole-naked on a limb with that nonsense.

[topcat42]

Well I have the intel saying they gained valuable info from these murderers. It came AFTER they were waterboarded but you can't admit that because you're a loon.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You don't have squat. All you may have is some other waterboarding defender posting on the Internet his beliefs. But the FBI said they didn't get shit after they started waterboarding. What do you have?

[topcat42]

I have CIA members stating it pal. I have the interrogators stating it pal. All you have is that loon Keith Olbermann.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

I have the FBI. I've said it over and over again. You're talking about the CIA. The same CIA that had to admit this past summer that they withheld info about all of the tactics they were using against these detainees. The CIA has a reason to lie here. What reason does the FBI have?

[topcat42]

You spin so much that you can't even keep up with it, lol.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

I'm not making excuses for anybody. You're the one who's trying to say that what happens to a SEAL is the same as what happened to KSM. KSM didn't have the luxury of knowing he would be WB-ed only once and that would be it. He didn't get a warm cell and soft cot afterwards. He was really tortured. What happens to a SEAL doesn't meet that standard. They know they will an unpleasant experience and it will be over. The two aren't even close but you keep drawing on it. I wonder why.

[topcat42]

LOL what a hoot. If you say Waterboarding is TORTURE, then we torture our own people, you can't spin your way out of it by saying well we don't do it to our own people 183 times, lol. Torture is torture pal. Why aren't you outraged that we torture our own people? Do you care more about the known terrorists?

LOL oh so now It's not torture if you get a warm cell after being waterboarded? You just couldn't make this shit up if you tried!

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You're really showing how dense you are. Anyone can sit done and be waterboarded. It's been done to a few right-wingers that caused them to change their minds about whether or not it's torture. But they knew they wouldn't have to undergo it for long. They were able to signal their tormentors to stop. That's probably what happens to our SEALS. They're never in any real danger. They know that. You know it too but you insist on playing dumb. Well, I hope you're playing. For your sake.

[topcat42]

Really, It's been done to a few right wingers who stated it was torture? Name more than ONE.

Now you know what happens with the Seals? What is your proof that is how it happens to the Seals? How do you know that's not how it happens to the poor terrorists? Danger? You mean KSM made it through this DANGER 183 times? Damn is he Super Man?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Mancow Muller is one right-winger. Christopher Hitchens may not be a full-fledged right-winger but he certainly was a guy who said it wasn't torture before it was done to him. Ask him if it's torture now.

[topcat42]

Christopher Hitchens is an admitted socialist liberal. Are you for real or what? Are you just playing stupid hoping I won't pick up on it?

Hitchens worked for The Nation.

Hitchens would go on to support Barack Obama, calling McCain "senile", and his choice of running mate Sarah Palin "absurd", calling Palin a "pathological liar" and a "national disgrace".[65]

LOL yeah a right winger there. Grow up.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

I said that Hitchens wasn't a right-winger. Can you read? I said that he didn't believe that waterboarding is torture. Ask him what he thinks now. You are trying to cling to the slightest bit of hyperbole to bolster your losing case. You're not making any sense. Would you consider the fact that you willingly allowed yourself to be WB-ed by people who you know don't wish you harm the same as being waterboarded by your enemies without your consent? That's nonsense.

[topcat42]

I said name me more than ONE right winger and you come up with Hitchens? Are you a complete idiot or is it just that I caught you in a lie and you can't come up with more than one as I predicted?

[topcat42]

YOU said there were a FEW right wingers that waterboarded that stated it was torture. You used Hitchens as your example by saying he may not be a full fledged right winger, lmao. He's a full fledged socialist DEMOCRAT.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Well, I may be guilty of hyperbole when I said a few right-wingers but my point is still valid. There were people who thought that WB-ing wasn't torture but they were shown otherwise. Muller certainly qualifies as a right-winger. You said that there were civilized countries that don't regard WB-ing as torture. I asked you to name one. You haven't. Am I to call you a liar? You were just wrong is all. The point is that it's torture. We did it and we're wrong for it, period.

[topcat42]

Wow he admits it, damn It's like pulling teeth to get you to admit you are full of shit. Your point isn't valid, it was a lie.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

My point was that people who once said that waterboarding wasn't torture now know it is. I see Hannity has yet to live up to his boast that he would do it. I wonder why. Maybe because he KNOWS it's torture. That's the point. It is valid. You can make it about how many right-wingers say it is or what civilized countries only you know of that don't regard it as such but the bottom line is it's torture and it's wrong, period.

[topcat42]

Your point was that A FEW RIGHT WINGERS said it. Once again you had to try and exaggerate your claim by throwing in right wingers when I knew all along that the only right winger was Man Cow.

Hannity stated he would be waterboarded if Grodin did it since he asked him about it. Not wanting to have something done to you does not make it torture. I don't want to eat liver but that doesn't mean It's torture.

You stated EVEY civilized country stated it is torture, prove it.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Every country that has signed the Geneva Conventions is listed on the Internet. You can find this list if you google "nations who have signed the geneva conventions.

[topcat42]

Again, the Geneva Convention also states that you are only covered under this if you wear a uniform so that you can be identified as a war combatant.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You said that not every civilized nation regards waterboarding as torture. Now, you're trying to shift it to some technicality about uniforms. Nice try but it's not working.

[topcat42]

Technicality? It's right there in the Geneva Convention. Is not wearing a uniform a "technicality" to you? Tell that to the American soldiers who got blown up by children who strapped bombs to themselves or that were ladies who strapped bombs to themselves so that the soldiers couldn't tell they were the enemy. Yeah just a" technicality". Do you care at all what happens to the Americans or are you all about protecting terrorists?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

It also says that the Geneva Conventions apply to guerillas. Guerillas don't always wear uniforms so the uniform thing isn't a set-in-stone must for falling under the protections of the articles.

[topcat42]

The United States never signed that when it was added in 1977. Nice try but again you lose.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Yes, I care about our people a great deal. I care enough about them to denounce torture in the hopes that the other side won't feel a justification for using it against our people because we've used it against theirs. I denounce torture because I know that some radical Islamic recruiter is using the fact that we do this as a tool to help brainwash some young person into fighting against us. Our ideals are our best weapons but you idiots don't see it.

[topcat42]

Oh is that what you're worried about? Well let me assure you that the terrorists won't waterboard you if they capture you. They will just CUT YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF.

Feel better now?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Yes, they've cut off some heads. Like we haven't killed any terrorists in our custody. They're so much worse than us. Did you hear about the guys who tied themselves up and stuffed their own mouths before hanging themselves? They were in our custody. Tell me you believe that they did that themselves?

[topcat42]

Why aren't you out here outraged about terrorists cutting off INNOCENT American heads?

Are you trying to say they're not worse than us? Is that what you are saying?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

I am outraged. But my outrage will never change the way a terrorist does things. My government is another story altogether.

[topcat42]

Yeah you sound real outraged about it. Here is what you said:

Yes, they've cut off some heads. Like we haven't killed any terrorists in our custody.

Real outrage there, lol.

Are you sure you're not one of them?

Do you consider us as bad as the terrorists?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You can point to what they've done with a righteous indignation and call that the proper way to show outrage. I can look at what we've done and KNOW that we were wrong and that we didn't get anything for it except a even worse image in the rest of the world and be outraged at BOTH. That's the difference between a liberal and a conservative. We don't condone wrong doing simply because we've been wronged. That's what you're doing. So, if someone rapes your wife, you get to rape theirs?

[topcat42]

Outraged at both? Well show me ONE post you have made out here over the years where you mentioned the terrorists cutting off Americans head. Just show me ONE. I guarantee you that you can't. I guarantee you that you never made ONE post condemning the terrorists for cutting off American heads.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

First of all, I've never been on a video where the topic was just about the terrorists cutting off heads. Maybe that's because they don't show those clips on YouTube. But I have commented on 9/11 videos a few times and I have always voiced my anger about what they did that day. Just because I can show outrage on this clip about this topic doesn't mean I don't have anger for what has been done to us.

[topcat42]

Well I don't need to see it on video. How about just a single post out here in you tube land?

I'm not talking about 9/11. Don't start patting yourself on the back for feeling mad about 9/11. How about what KSM did to Daniel Pearl and numerous other Innocent Americans by cutting off their fucking heads?

Naa you're more pissed off about waterboarding.

[topcat42]

I don't consider waterboarding torture. Terroristsdidn't waterboard Americans, they cut they're heads off but you keep comparing the two like they go hand in hand.

Do you consider cutting off heads the same as waterboarding?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

I never compared the two. You did. I said that we've killed people in our custody too. In fact, it's very likely that we've killed INNOCENT people who were captured by us and tortured to death. Have you seen any of the HBO documentaries about Abu Ghraib?

[topcat42]

YOU compared the two. You said if they rape, we should not rape. What kind of comparison is that?

There you go again, once again throwing aside the FACT that they cut off American heads and put it on the internet.

Instead you focus on myths that we killed terrorists. You say It's very likely without any proof. Everytime I mention the chopping off of heads by terrorists you come back waterboarding or us killing terrorists. Show me the proof that we purposely killed terrorists in Abu Ghraib.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Myths? Is that what you call it? They have three dead prisoners in Gitmo that they are now saying likely didn't commit suicide. They have people who have admitted to beating a man so many times that he died from it. Myths? You are a total joke.

[topcat42]

Well pal show me the proof they didn't commit suicide, your mouth out here means nothing, that has already been proved. I can show the heads being chopped off by KSM and others. I have proof pal. You have likely, and maybe's. You are the total joke who has PROVEN he is more concerned with terrorists getting waterboarded than he is with Americans getting their heads chopped off by terrorists. Thanks for exposing it.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

We've got people ADMITTING that they've killed people. The Afghani cab driver that we killed. You dispute this?

[topcat42]

Yes they cut off some heads, like we haven't killed any terrorists in our custody.

That sums you right up. You could give a shit less about Americans that got their heads chopped off by terrorists. Instead you cry like a bitch about 3 known murdering terrorists getting waterboarded.

You sir are a piece of shit.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Oh, I'm a piece of shit? Well you're like a child who constantly tries to justify you're wrong doing by saying, "They did it first" or "Look what they did", completely ignoring that you're guilty of some equally heinous shit. I point out that we're also guilty of terrible behavior and that makes me a piece of shit. Typical conservative. We can do whatever the hell we want and no one had better say shit but as soon as dirt is done to us, let's cry bloody murder.

[topcat42]

Yes, a piece of shit. Once again you compare head chopping to waterboarding. We aren't guilty of the same heinous shit. We may have had a couple of rouge soldiers who crossed the line but that wasn't ordered by the Government you brain dead loon. Why don't you make KSM some milk and cookies so he can feel better after being waterboarded, dumb ass.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

You're as dense as a block of steel. I've said over and over again that I'm not comparing waterboarding to beheading. I'm comparing killing to killing. The Afghan taxi driver that was killed by us. The three detainees that were killed. Those people were killed because torture was sanctioned by our government, You can turn a blind eye to it if you want but I can see that if people like you were in charge, we'd be torturing prisoners to death.

[topcat42]

You're dumber than a box of rocks. This Government didn't order or kill any terrorists.

You have been out here crying like a little girl because KSM got waterboarded. If it were up to you, you would have given him a nice fluffy pillow and a big screen television so he could watch porn.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

What's the use? There's no getting through to someone who revels in their ignorance. That's you to a tee. I've stated that traditional tactics worked on KSM and the others. In fact, it's also been stated that we got intel by giving cookies to one guy because he was diabetic or something. I wonder how much valuable intel we got from torturing him? I'd wager that we didn't get a hell of a lot.

[topcat42]

LMAO, yep fits you to a tee, give them milk & cookies! Thanks once again for proving my point.

1. doesn't care about americans getting heads chopped off

2 more pissed off about KSM getting waterboarded

3 would rather serve him milk & cookies

I'd wager we got a lot more info from waterboarding than we did cookies.

Typical dumb ass far left loon

[slickrickdarula]

get your facts straight... many assassination permits have been given

[MussyPagnet]

@topcat42

You're a fucking idiot and you're out of your element. Just save yourself the embarrassment.

[topcat42]

Yeah loon, I can see I would have my hands full against a genius like yourself. Should I tie one hand behind my back first?

[MussyPagnet]

@topcat42

You're an absolute fucking moron with an extra chromosome. Save it, fucklips. Like I said, you're out of your element. I know people like Sarah Palin flaunting retard babies might have you confused about the legitimacy of mentally retarded people being involved in political debate, but unfortunately for you she has a warped sense of self importance in that context. The adults are talking - time to put away the toys and go to sleep, fuckmook.

[topcat42]

Should Palin hide the handicapped child in a closet away from society? Maybe that should have been done with you but I have no problem with Palin showing her handicapped child in public.

Now someone who calls himself "Mussy Pagnet" out here has no right to consider himself an adult. Go back to your crayon book and stick the pacifier back on your mouth like a good little girl, meathead.

[MussyPagnet]

@topcat42

Maybe she shouldn't hide the little thing away, but carrying it around like a limp sausage in the hopes that knuckle-dragging idiots like you feel sorry for her seems a little distasteful. "Hurdurr look what a good argument this is against giving women the right to do as they please with their bodies! Hyuck! I can see russia from my house!"

I find it difficult to pander to people who use books for doorstops, so I'll just leave you to it, you inarticulate, miserable piece of shit.

[topcat42]

Aw what's wrong loon did I get your panties all stained up?

How can I feel sorry for Sarah Palin? She is a millionaire who drives loons like you up a wall, good for her.

[slickrickdarula]

you think they wouldnt chop heads if they where afraid of being tortured??? these people are ready to blow themselves up for theyre cause...

dont be so thick

[topcat42]

Yes they cut off some heads, oh well. But we WATERBOARDED 3 terrorists! You are more pissed off about that than you are terrorists cutting off heads. You are a complete hopeless lost cause pal. Thanks for proving it.

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Your the hopeless one, buddy. You don't realize that we live in a world of consequence. Just because one wrong was done that doesn't mean another gets to be done. That makes us no better than them and if that's the case then let's cut the crap of us being so righteous and upstanding. It's that kind of BS that leads to hatred from those who despise us.

[topcat42]

So you are now comparing the chopping off of somebody's head to waterboarding?

[beeshor1]

@topcat

Also, I never said I knew what happens to the SEALS. I said "probably". Which means maybe or maybe not. I felt the need to explain that since you obviously don't understand what the word means.

[topcat42]

Oh so you just ASSUMED it even though you have not one thread of evidence to support it. Typical loon.

[cws98]

Frank Gaffney is a Washington Times (aka print version of Fox news) stooge and represents exactly what is wrong with this country right now.

[wilsonspaulding]

It's OK to be namby pamby about torture until another doomsday at which time the libs line will be, "why didn't we do everything possible to stop this?" Liberal ideology is an affordable luxury during times of oppulant excess, but seems to vaporize when the going gets really tough.

[Hazmat347]

Fear Mongering at is best Stay Classy Wilsonspaulding

[4UCKHERIDID]

Lawrence O'Donnel is a FUCKING SCUM BAG. If we had listend to Frank Gaffney 20 years ago 9/11 never would have happened. - Get Hugh Hewitt's interview with O'Donnell and you will see an ASSHOLE that never says I DON'T KNOW when he should have said I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE. He is perfect for MSNBC because he is a SHIT!

[Facebook289]

lmao because he says the truth about these neocons????

[WorldBFree2006]

He is right... waterboarding is torture. It gave us inaccurate information there were no plots waterboarding intercepted Gaffney was just pulling random talking points out of his ass. He sounds like Rumsfeld. Go watch Faux News where journalism goes to die.

[winjaxer]

Frank Gaffney is a great and principled man. The host is ideologically opposed to Gaffney, and as such "interviewed" him in a hostile manner (which he is allowed to do) but mostly creates smoke and mirrors and tries to defame good men like Frank by trying to make him look evil on a simplistic level by trying to portray him as an advocate of torture. Yeah it's a long sentence.

[UGOTDAJACK]

Frank Gaffney is a evil wicked jew who is no diffrent from a Nazi general.

[Facebook289]

alright thats not even funny dude. I may not like the guy personally but to throw out that pejorative I find extremely offensive.

[WorldBFree2006]

Get a clue... Waterboarding is classified as torture by both our own constitution and international law, and Gaffney is nothing but an anti-muslim bigot, who made his fortune cheerleading for such bigotry.

[im4wur]

""Torturing Democracy" Excerpt #4" - ( watch?v=NJzjge4tWD8 )

ex-SERE Master Instructor Malcolm Nance on the issue of torture: (cont.)

[im4wur]

"We have recreated our enemy's methodologies in Guantanamo. It will hurt us for decades to come. Decades. Our people will all be subjected to these tactics, because we have authorized them for the world now. How it got to Guantanamo is a crime and somebody needs to figure out who did it, how they did it, who authorized them to do it, and shut it down because our servicemen will suffer for years" - Malcolm Nance

[im4wur]

White House Watch - "Torture Watch" - "By all rights, journalist Mark Danner's recent exposé -- based on a confidential report from the International Red Cross that definitively classified the CIA's treatment of terror suspects as torture -- should have spurred government officials into action. At the very least, it should have permanently changed the public discourse."

[im4wur]

"A Top Interrogator Who's Against Torture" - "...says the use of those techniques was unnecessary and often counterproductive. Detainees, he says, provided vital intelligence under non-violent questioning, before they were put through "walling" and waterboarding."