From Wikipedia: "Wilson described his writing as an 'attempt to break down conditioned associations—to look at the world in a new way, with many models recognized as models or maps and no one model elevated to the Truth.'[1]"
So is it *true* that these models or maps work? Or that they exist? This line about "models or maps, not truth" is the most mainsteam line in philosophy today; it does nothing to distinguish him from the rabble.
(cont.) "... 'My goal is to try to get people into a state of generalized agnosticism, not agnosticism about God alone, but agnosticism about everything.[2]'"
Even agnosticism about his radical skepticism? Or maybe agnosticism about how good agnosticism is?
Agnosticism offers nothing but perpetual uncertainty. It's not a "higher form of knowledge"--it's the negation of knowledge. Are you agnostic about how good Wilson is?
(cont.) More from Wiki: "'Is,' 'is,' 'is — the idiocy of the word haunts me. If it were abolished, human thought might begin to make sense. I don't know what anything is'; I only know how it seems to me at this moment."
So a thing can "seem to him," without "being." He can know how something "seems," but he can't know whether he, the thing, his sensations, or his interpretations of them "are," IOW, *exist*. Self-contradictory balderdash like this shouldn't qualify as philosophy.
If you don't know how you seem to other people then i don't think that is a good situation to be in. i need friends to guide me in my development. Getting everyone to agree with what words i use or what philosophy i believe his a very shallow way of experiencing earth-human consciousness.
robert anton wilson also advocates MEDITATING. SPIRITUAL PRACTICE to get to know yourself and realize what direction you are heading in. most people have no idea what direction they are heading in, and fight.
"Getting everyone to agree with what words i use or what philosophy i believe..."
Philosophy isn't a matter of personal taste, like preferring chocolate over vanilla and then trying to get everyone to agree with you.
Ideas are of life-and-death importance, and having the wrong ideas will mean a life of misery when one could have a life of ecstatic fulfilment. What could be more important than making sure that the right ideas get circulated and the wrong ones get put out of commission?
what wilson is saying is that when you think you know the truth, you are in a sense being a narcicist. In other words, you are probably being too dogmatic in your thinking.
Like models are an extension of the human soul. But don't mistake the words and the structure for what MADE it in the first place. Humans. Love. Whatever you want to call it.
"What wilson is saying is that when you think you know the truth, you are in a sense being a narcicist."
Is that true? I mean, really TRUE? You can't say anything at all without claiming to have the truth. The only alternative is to sit down, close one's mouth, and stop thinking at all.
"Believing in truth is dogmatism" -- what's the point in saying this, unless you mean for me to consider that it may be *true*?
Still upset that I didn't respond when you sent me your phone number via PM? Loser. I was having fun debating you, sorry you had to go all postal like this.
I know you are not advocating we believe in perspectives on the basis that they be rare. The question "is any abstract individuation based on subjective interpretation other than imaginary?" is a good one. We might well apply that to every word and thought that emanates from you, as well as to every perception or feeling presented to your consciousness.
"...Our sole relief were the rare occasions when we could see one another. We found that we liked to meet - in order to be reminded that human beings still existed. So we came to set aside one month a year to spend in this valley - to rest, to live in a rational world, to bring our real work out of hiding, to trade our achievements - here, where achievements meant payment, not expropriation... - for one month of life out of twelve. It made the eleven easier to bear."
Since I appriciate objectivism I will advocate for my own self-interest. Vegas isn't bad, but Riverside California is probably a more ideal location. Newport beach is nicer then Portland. Not only is it 45 minutes away, but it has beach in its name. All Portand has is a port ... and some land.
robert anton wilson > ayn rand.
billhicks123 3 years ago
"robert anton wilson > ayn rand."
From Wikipedia: "Wilson described his writing as an 'attempt to break down conditioned associations—to look at the world in a new way, with many models recognized as models or maps and no one model elevated to the Truth.'[1]"
So is it *true* that these models or maps work? Or that they exist? This line about "models or maps, not truth" is the most mainsteam line in philosophy today; it does nothing to distinguish him from the rabble.
nine9s 3 years ago
(cont.) "... 'My goal is to try to get people into a state of generalized agnosticism, not agnosticism about God alone, but agnosticism about everything.[2]'"
Even agnosticism about his radical skepticism? Or maybe agnosticism about how good agnosticism is?
Agnosticism offers nothing but perpetual uncertainty. It's not a "higher form of knowledge"--it's the negation of knowledge. Are you agnostic about how good Wilson is?
nine9s 3 years ago
(cont.) More from Wiki: "'Is,' 'is,' 'is — the idiocy of the word haunts me. If it were abolished, human thought might begin to make sense. I don't know what anything is'; I only know how it seems to me at this moment."
So a thing can "seem to him," without "being." He can know how something "seems," but he can't know whether he, the thing, his sensations, or his interpretations of them "are," IOW, *exist*. Self-contradictory balderdash like this shouldn't qualify as philosophy.
nine9s 3 years ago
If you don't know how you seem to other people then i don't think that is a good situation to be in. i need friends to guide me in my development. Getting everyone to agree with what words i use or what philosophy i believe his a very shallow way of experiencing earth-human consciousness.
robert anton wilson also advocates MEDITATING. SPIRITUAL PRACTICE to get to know yourself and realize what direction you are heading in. most people have no idea what direction they are heading in, and fight.
billhicks123 3 years ago
"Getting everyone to agree with what words i use or what philosophy i believe..."
Philosophy isn't a matter of personal taste, like preferring chocolate over vanilla and then trying to get everyone to agree with you.
Ideas are of life-and-death importance, and having the wrong ideas will mean a life of misery when one could have a life of ecstatic fulfilment. What could be more important than making sure that the right ideas get circulated and the wrong ones get put out of commission?
nine9s 3 years ago
Questioning is bad? I guess that's the hegelist or national socialist perspective.
"Don't ask so many questions. Shut up. SHHH if it is inconsistent and makes no sense just pretend you never saw it. shhh!"
Cashify 2 years ago
what wilson is saying is that when you think you know the truth, you are in a sense being a narcicist. In other words, you are probably being too dogmatic in your thinking.
Like models are an extension of the human soul. But don't mistake the words and the structure for what MADE it in the first place. Humans. Love. Whatever you want to call it.
billhicks123 3 years ago
"What wilson is saying is that when you think you know the truth, you are in a sense being a narcicist."
Is that true? I mean, really TRUE? You can't say anything at all without claiming to have the truth. The only alternative is to sit down, close one's mouth, and stop thinking at all.
"Believing in truth is dogmatism" -- what's the point in saying this, unless you mean for me to consider that it may be *true*?
nine9s 3 years ago
dude. go fuck yourself.
at the end of the world you will serve your sins bitch.
objectivists think WAY TOO MUCH.
WORDS HAVE A MEANING.
YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING.
STOP GETTING SO HUNG UP ON WORDS.
billhicks123 3 years ago
Still upset that I didn't respond when you sent me your phone number via PM? Loser. I was having fun debating you, sorry you had to go all postal like this.
nine9s 3 years ago
I know you are not advocating we believe in perspectives on the basis that they be rare. The question "is any abstract individuation based on subjective interpretation other than imaginary?" is a good one. We might well apply that to every word and thought that emanates from you, as well as to every perception or feeling presented to your consciousness.
Cashify 2 years ago
New York, anyone?
cyberTrebuchet 3 years ago
Sounds good, though a bit far away from me.
For anyone interested who lives in Sydney - A group of us objectivists are meeting up for drinks THIS coming thursday (10th april).
Anyone who'd like to attend please msg me here on YouTube
xxAdimusxx 3 years ago
Objectivists get in line is cheap the gathering is standard -- an women spooked about money.
saeviahtani 4 years ago
The Objectivist Center? No thanks.
marneedear 4 years ago
I am in. Doesn't matter where. It would probably be a good idea to hold it somewhere that has cheap flights flying in and out.
kushaze 4 years ago
"You see, Miss Taggart," said Hugh Akston, "Man is a social being, but not in the way the looters preach."
$ Atlas Shrugged * Ayn Rand $
DrHughAkston 4 years ago
I'm definitely interested.
Intellisecular 4 years ago
Never been to Vegas. That would be cool.
qtronman 4 years ago 2
"...Our sole relief were the rare occasions when we could see one another. We found that we liked to meet - in order to be reminded that human beings still existed. So we came to set aside one month a year to spend in this valley - to rest, to live in a rational world, to bring our real work out of hiding, to trade our achievements - here, where achievements meant payment, not expropriation... - for one month of life out of twelve. It made the eleven easier to bear."
(JG\DT:AS\AynRand)
AynRandOeuvre 4 years ago 3
If you can through The Anteroom,
You'll be welcome "here" in June.
A $ A
Atlantist 4 years ago
I'm not an Objectivist but I do agree with a good portion of it and I'd be awesome to meet some of the Objectivists on here.
I doubt I could afford the trip though.
Rorshak1313 4 years ago
Since I appriciate objectivism I will advocate for my own self-interest. Vegas isn't bad, but Riverside California is probably a more ideal location. Newport beach is nicer then Portland. Not only is it 45 minutes away, but it has beach in its name. All Portand has is a port ... and some land.
aaron0883 4 years ago
Vegas would be great, but anywhere west of the Rockies would be good.
MrCropper 4 years ago 2
We should all crash at Cropper's house :D I can see it now, having things thrown at us in the morning by his trebuchet!
horvay 4 years ago 4
Party at Cropper's crib!
Rorshak1313 4 years ago 2
The objectivist answer to ko@la....
randyhelzerman 4 years ago