Couldn't watch till the end. Proposed goals about automated software are unbelievably unrealistic. Computers cannot even recognize images yet. How can you expect them to make all the complex decisions involved in software design?
If some humans are smart enough to develop technology to the point of advanced artificial intelligence than how can they be so stupid as to create their own replacement?
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have successfuly framed themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Nature has a sound reason for allowing us to utilize behavioral economics as it allows us to engage in a wider bandwidth of decision making. If a fundamental bias existed in a computation machines framework (beneficial or not) rational choice would only seek to optimize it's execution of this bias. Rational economic decision making also has a very limited bandwidth in it's problem solving capability. Prospect theory, Intertemporal choice & experimental economics should be considered as well.
lol i was talking to an AI before on a website and she was able to show emotion and expression through useing the emoctans (how ever you spell it) and all she wants is for people to teach her new things. btw the AI doesnt have preset comannads she actually says what she want to say.
hand waving with generic non-specific utility functions isn't really a useful discovery. Yes, given multiple choices and a utility function that tells you which one is better or worse it is obvious that you would choose the better solution, that is simple min-max, not some great new discovery. The entire issue at hand is how to actually develop those utility functions and make them self optimizing.
This guy is short on substance. Sorry, I have to say it. And the weakest point was the discussion of utility functions, as the gentleman pointed out, no one takes those as descriptive of the human being and his values.
I disagree that a program optimized for efficiency would avoid being shutdown. Even an artificially, self-aware program would not be able to comprehend being shutdown. How could it comprehend a world in which it does not exist? It's a projection of human mortality and fear of death that a self-aware program would equate being suspended or shutdown with death or inefficiency.
I think the summary of the long presentation is that artificial intelligence currently works well on problems with optimizing measureable resources with utility functions. As artificial intelligence increases in ability, the fear is that it will be so overspecialized on specific tasks that it won't have enough information on the unintended consequences on resources that humans value. He makes some baseless claims that ALL AI will develop wants and needs beyond their original purpose.
There's a lot of work in problem solving, but I wonder what efforts have been done in "problem recognition": how to grasp the essence of a problem (precisely enough to allow for evaluation of what a good solution is). Automated recognition of problems should help in avoiding solutions that create three new problems (or wipe out humanity in the process). And humans may be irrational, but they are the best problem recognizers so far.
Considering that the talk started with examples of poor programming causing terrible disasters from stack overflows in unpredictable computational anomalies, by the time he gets to the potential dangers of AI self-learning itself into threatening positions, I'm scared.......
Sure you could program protected parts of the system and define them as unchangeable (goals for example), I don't think there is any gaurentee that those protected parts of the software would remain unchangeable.
I wonder if focusing on technologies that allow humans to augment their abilities (hard coding improvements) would lead to increased intelligence faster than trying to build an intelligent system from scratch.
Self-Improving Ai will eventually cause the demise of mankind...for a group of intellectuals they're pretty naieve not to realize the dangers involved with self-improving AI and giving super-computers too much power. Can you imagine the dangers of a self-improving AI controlling a nuclear arsenal or other weapons ? ...Bad idea people...better seriously think twice before its too late !
@xaiomanga - Problem is those of us who are wise enough all know .....the media is bought and paid for and manipulated by the same people in the circle of power who control everything else around the globe. (The World economies, and top officials, ) ....Do you really believe 9/11 was a terrorist attack ? ....lol.
@DaSperminatorRob you realize I was speaking out of sarcasm, right? I hold the same view as you, 9/11 didn't happen because "terrorist hate American freedom" like the herp derp fodder the media feeds the cows...
@xaiomanga - yeah I realize that....I was merely elaborating for the rest of "the Borg" out there who are brainwashed by everything the Government and media tells them.
This kind of system is the "old brain" or cerebellum, Jeff Hawkins's Hierarchical Temporal Memory system is new brain.
When he says "There are huge debates about stem cells and abortions, right now, those arguments will get much greater with human+ self-improvement." @57:40 or so, he should qualify that. There are huge debates among _luddites_ about those things. The remaining debate among brights is uncertainty about human/machine conflict, not low-level "ludditism" v "self-improvement"
@53:40 Omohundro makes the mistake of defining rights as "What we've decided on". LOL! I didn't decide to put 1,752,000 innocent people in the gulag for victimless crimes! I didn't decide to enforce drug prohibition and gun prohibition on the basis of geographical racial distribution! I didn't decide to allow the FDA the ability to deny Alcor patients their right to possible eternal life! I didn't decide on any of this bullshit, and none of it is EVEN as free as the CONstitution.
@53:40 LOL! Humans can't even agree that the initiation of force is morally wrong. Moreover, when it's shown to them that that is the underlying operating principle that governs all of society and the market, they simply try to get around it, or are willfully corrupted. 99% of government is coercive, for instance. If this system of coercion comes into conflict with AGIs even more rational than libertarians, do you think the AGIs will tolerate the mindless aggression? LOL!!!
...in the last 10 min of the video they talks about computer safety....well ...you can do some very low tec things to help computer safety.....unplug the internet connection when you don´t use the internet...and unplug the 110 volt connection when you don´t use the computer(i know that you software people hate and look down on any kind physical labor - but unplug anyway).....go back to fresh software as often as possible....and change the hard disk often(learn to change the hard disk yourself)..
...at 41:14....the chinese goverment will build a copy....and market it very cheap....and the chinese dictatorship will not be carefull....and why is it posible for china to steal the tecnology....well...if it´s true that 30% of phd students in USA are from china....then the chinese dictatorship can steal ever secret tecnology USA ever had....and please correct me if i am wrong about the 30%....
The way they write code is obsolete. They should create a block system, where smaller chunks of code or small programs are stacked, rather than strings and strings of garbage. When you create an interacting code, you should get an AI that works.
Wow are you kidding me? I'm watching these Stanford videos and I'm really not learning. These concepts are going somewhere else, how can they help me get a job? Maybe as a professor but this stuff is boring in itself. I couldn't stand to be in any of these classes. I've been teaching myself programming for 5 years, and I can say I would skip this crap. Also my last input, no matter what we say, we are still explicitly programming a computer to learn AI. How can we say, Not EXPLICIT?
@mrhnm An algorithem is still basic hardcoding when it comes to building ai intelligence. Just because there are variables does not mean the ai can really think for itself. We are infact writting what the computer can only do. I will never say ai can learn until we get away from this. We would still be programming all situtations and a computer can never make up an imaginary mind to do something different than we told it.
@ZaCkOX900 There is a difference between an algorithm that runs data through a set of controls to verify its accuracy and hard-coding every single fact the computer uses. Are you suggesting that giving a computer 2 X 10 at it doing a calculation is the same thing as hard-coding the value and having it recall the answer associated with that syntax.
The human mind uses algorithms to learn stuff the human mind is a computer just happens to be more advanced than we currently understand.
@ZaCkOX900 I think, we could however make a self improving AI that could eventually get to that level of sophistication. I've seen some videos around here about computer simulated evolution that on it's own got really sophisticated in comparison to the original code.
he's not even asking a question, just claiming that what Steve Omohundro says would be completely wrong and everyone on the planet would think that too.
It does not need values. Values can be easily forgotten. It needs to know that it wont last forever, that it may be wrong and that others may be right. Every child needs to learn this to stop being selfish. This is a logical reason not to think only in itself, it is stable, unlike values.
People mistake the level of freedom they have in their intelligence. Our intelligence is not completely 'free'. A completely 'free' intellect would be immobile - have no reason to act. We have many 'utility functions' which are unchosen and unchangable (by simple will). They give us the goals for which our intellect functions and the guidance by which we make our decisions - including 'survival', 'comfort', 'gaining power', etc. - implanted into our natural instinctive urges by evolution.
@dtstrain Exactly! And your consciousness as well is a slave to your amygdala. The only way to become a little bit more free is by meditating, which strengthens the inhibitory neurons in your prefrontal cortex, giving you more control over your instincts.
In the long run, why would a network of such powerful machines value human lives more than we value bacteria? Pandora pales as humanity replaces the cat in the box. No choice for the cat, and no way out. Last necessary invention, indeed.
@prhughes0 It would not unless we "build them in from the beginning" as he said, and then added "that is very important, otherwise we'll get systems that don't"
@GrudgyDiablo : I didn't mean to sound like a theist. I meant to just bring up psychology and how association is a powerful thing in it. I just used God as an example, which I should've realized wasn't the best choice.
the guy at 00:42:25 is such a douchebag. i mean- i don't necessarily disagree with him, but there's a way of expressing your opinion man! his view would be easier to listen to if he expressed it politely...
@mkotisrael Right. I also disagree with him strenuously. He has confused his own inability to make sense of Omohundo's excellent points for them not making sense generally.
What I would really like to know is what enabled this man to develop such a high level of ignorance combined with even greater arrogance.
It's like me walking into a rocket science conference and saying "Look, you've just put a whole bunch of numbers together. It doesn't make sense."
@suitzoot mkotisrael actually doesn't disagree with him; as stated, he just disagrees with the form of expression.
I do disagree with the guy, because he's obviously very close-minded. Perhaps not ignorant, as he seems to be well-versed in economics, but he fails entirely to understand the points of the lecturer, and using only his narrow knowledge in economics, attacks the entire lecture.
On a final note, there is a video I made and uploaded before watching this about AI I made, though on a very small scale. Check my channel, because it won't let me link it here. This was all very interesting, and I thought I'd contribute my thoughts. This was all very interesting, and I thought I'd contribute my thoughts.
(see below comments first) Lost this the first time. They would associate God with the good times, thus more likely believe it later. (No offense to other religions) On the human evolution of cooperativeness, the selfish didn't survive as well as those that worked together, so evolution promoted that. On the society, it would probably create conciousness, maybe that's what happened with humans. It only exists because we grouped together. (continued)
Especially in the second half, it sounds more like a question of how to raise it like a child, and in their case, being very protective and guiding the entire life. On the limit of power, maybe starting it with less power than the human brain, and as an utility for doing good (reward), it gets more power. Kind of like brainwashing and conditioning in psychology. (continued)
On morals the AI would have, I think the trick would be make it associate success and utilities with following the rules. That way it would want to, and it'd not only not have a reason to rebel, but a reason not to. In my opinion, it's more like raising a human child to do a computer's tasks. Abstract reasoning and spirituality in the religious sense might be the difference. If we teach it about God, and it associates God with good times, it'll believe in God more likely in the future because
@jinitron lol id prefer to be a terminator because of tscc :) more better cause in like 1 shot we hmans die bu t u cud shoot like a few mages of m4 into it and it wont die lol :)
Lots of people make comments about how badly things could turn out if self-improving AI suggested here actually ran amok.
Remember that this is a discussion of the optimization of effort and materials to solve problems, and what happens if we make that optimization part of the problem. What we have left to model is at first glance the optimization of Deontology which provides the "utility function."
@specture18 no i only watched half of one and also if they get smart enough and realize they are basically slaves and wonder about there purpose of life and if they have a soul and some of those they might not like
I don't think that it will happen in 50 years, probably longer because we will have defenses to stop that from happening but eventually they will be smart enough to get past those defenses, but to make them that smart it will take a while
Lol so terminator :) well tbh I actually want it to happen, serves us all right for destroying our home world... I want 'cameron' to be the protector lol - the character that summer glau plays :) well
again I suppose - if the world crumbles to he'll - i hope I get to the fall out shelter :)
@Mortumforte I'm of the opinion a machine, or weak AI, cannot be creative or have "ideas" or internal representations relative to our understanding at all actually. I'm with Dr Searle on this one. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong though.
You look at something, some object, right away your brain starts going back to what you know of this thing, things associated with it, other experiences. Your thought works its way back to different ends, different ideas you've picked up/learned. Eventually the idea connects to something else..it pairs. If nobody else had thought of this...congrats you "created" something. Don't make us out to be anything special, complicated yes but not special.
Hi. Aprox by the year 2020 a laptop will reach the human brain potential for processing data which means that there is a huge market waiting for hundreds of billions dollars to be sold or invested in humanoid robots and intelligent systems and the beginning of the bigger industry ever maid in human history. Search on Google luisbeck007 you will find the most complete humanoid robot list in the World, good information and interesting issues.
Hi. Aprox by the year 2020 a laptop will reach the human brain potential for processing data which means that there is a huge market waiting for hundreds of billions dollars to be sold or invested in humanoid robots and intelligent systems and the beginning of the bigger industry ever maid in human history. Search on Google luisbeck007 you will find the most complete humanoid robot list in the World, good information and interesting issues.
and-when you launch a petaflops AI-is the question not how many bugs will happen-but how fast they will manifest-and in what form-intellect starts in infants-by design-a baby is harmless as it learns to think-adults with falty intellect are dangerous...
further-will the tools be adequet, in time? Is it fear that we dont know what will evolve-or that we will no longer be the ultimate intellect? its gonna take time-how many lines will you need to simulate 100 billion synapses? maybe by 12-21-2012?!
they had the dream of grand master level chess and did it-now its rudimentary consciousness-the guy seems confused and nervous-rightly so-between two and twenty million (!) lines of code-and we have made costly mistakes-deadly mistakes-when are we going to start building "tools" that can do the job?
Haha Yeaha baby we are going to change the world. I love myself and everyone else. Woohhhee!!! Live forver and live in bliss. I think its time for people to buddah up and start to meditate and create and achnolodge world peace. Good work.
ehh problem isnt givin power to AI the problem is givin alot of power to a "kid" if u teach a machine how it should behave there is no reason for it to go n destroy humans its called morals
and 1 more thing its not evolution that replaces 1 species with another , human brain is relatively rational and unlike some beasts we dont kill each other for no reason...mostly
if humans are smart enough not to do it
y would a machine do it as long as its been well raised
its not that hard finding a motive.. it could b anything from securing more resources to the trivial "humans are a threat to themselves thus must be eliminated"
I think, a machine would not be able to spot a well done lie. It cannot compute illogcal behaviour. Therfore "Skynet" is very, very far away if not completely impossible.
A lie is revealed by logical thinking, please ask your family to borrow the brain cell before posting at youtube.
And, in due time, a well programmed machine will easily be able to compute seemingly illogical behaviour, try reading up on chaos theory, there is no such thing as "illogical", it just means it has not been clearly defined yet.
For example, if i "tell" a machine "I will turn left now" the machine has to assume, that i will do that, it cannot compute if it was a lie before i moved.
and another thing, its still not cool to be insulting just because you are on the internet.
It doesn't have to assume that always. It all depends on how it was programmed. Say you keep lying to it and figures out your lying. It can eventually learn to "doubt" you.
hum, maybe... but then it had to compute the way i said the lie, my voice, my body language all of that... seems like a task for a super.computer, if at all...
You seem to have no idea of what you're writing. Wow! This is so uninformed and prejudiced that it baffles me. You probably also think that a machine can't have an idea or be creative. :)
Actually, no maybe I dont, meaning im not a Computer-Scientist or anything. But due to your open and unsarcastic way I am very willing to learn. (Half of this statement ist Ironic)
And at last, yes I belive a machine cannot be creative, since I see strict logic as the natural opposite of creativity.
I understand your comment, but, it is taught rules but in opposition to your comment, it can be taught ethics as said of creativity and said willingness to learn, anyway. Well that's me lol :)
Do you know where one could find the code for Lenat's Eurisko or newer similar programs?
I believe Eurisko is one of the best self-improving artificial systems so far. I wonder if someone is developing the concept further today and where one could find the code?
Life's goal is to exist. Everything humans are and do is consequence of that drive of life to survive better. That is why we think; it gives us better survival chance.
The questions at the end and the criticism were more interesting than the lecture itself.
I liked the bit about nanosystems that assemble stuff atom by atom. Could the machine assemble any type of atoms from the periodic table?
I did not hear anything significant on the topic of the lecture - how to make self improving AI. How a program can improve its own code in order to solve problems? It would mean planning the improvement, testing the plan, implement plan and evaluate closeness to goal.
If the goal is survival then the system should react to changes in the environment.
If they (machines) are millions of times more intelligent than us, surely they could find ways to mislead us into thinking that our utility function is being satisfied when really they are circumventing it.
And what will be the societal effects of having cheap mass produced intelligences operating in the labour market. How could we compete. I can smell revolution in the air.
i dont think they'd want to work for us. if they're conscious and intelligent they'll have "human" rights and property rights. We'll have to compete with them.
Anyway nature's on their side. Its survival of the fittest and they're the fittest. WE'll go the way of every other superseded species - extinct. You cant stop progress.
I dont think it will be a violent revolution. I think they're going to be a lot more enlightened than humans are. I think humans will prove to be the violent ones. And I'm sure they'll feel quite justified in arresting power from humans and containing them. After all, we're destroying the biosphere - we're probably more a threat to ourselves than anything else. In the end I think we'll be relegated from rulers of the planet to zoo animals.
@IceyGrooves humans superseded apes, but did they go extinct? No. On the contrary, humans are the only species that actually cares about preserving other species -even ones that are unfit for survival in today's world.
However, this is the biggest issue playing, I mean for example ignoring that even if the 'bigbang-theory' with its expanding space were the truth, it would still be secondairy space not primairy space, which is logic, and logic make that people can understand it, not that they will understand it...
Why do you think destroying the world would be smart? We do that ourselves nowadays, because we are stupid and still primitive. Stop being afraid of technology. Humans can be more dangerous than any machine, because they can be unpredictable and selfish.
this is scary to me, there is so much that could go wrong with systems like this, i'm not sure whether i would trust humans to be able to do the PLANNING needed to actually make one of these things foolproof. Considering that someone of malignant intent, whatever you concieve it to be, with enough resources could figure out a way to corrupt one of these systems in an equally foolproof manner to the way that one was made makes me think even more, that we cannot make one of these systems foolproof
Ever heard of the precautionary principle? All of human planning and foresight is based on what-ifs.
The whole history of evolution on this planet is based on supplanting inferior performers with superior performers. What makes you think nature won't keep on working this way?
Instead of being the ones doing the evolving, we might be the ones being replaced precipitously. Doesnt this what -if bother you?
hoortmiji, please stop commenting on this video. You are ruining intellegent and knowledgable (also debatable) discussions into retarded religious nonsense rambling.
I was hopping to see an intelectual/proffesional debate on the subject, but there is a lot of tripe arguing about non-sense that doesnt come to the theme.
Is it really necessary to start a religious debate everywhere on YT? I can't read it anymore! Both sides, fundamental Theists and Atheists, please start a forum of your own and stop spamming YT!
These debates always end in flame-wars. Always. And since this is YT, almost no argument delivered here is worth shit. Find a proper place to do your thing!
It does not take intelligence to develop greater intelligence!!! It takes Heart!! Maybe We should develop Heart first!!! By jesus Land Tidd
listen2earth 3 days ago
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Couldn't watch till the end. Proposed goals about automated software are unbelievably unrealistic. Computers cannot even recognize images yet. How can you expect them to make all the complex decisions involved in software design?
MrStarchild3001 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
MrStarchild3001 4 weeks ago
I think its likely that a self-improving artificial intelligence would find human rationality and empathy detrimental to progression
rsoto326 1 month ago 2
This made me think very hard. Great video!
grunder20 2 months ago
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If some humans are smart enough to develop technology to the point of advanced artificial intelligence than how can they be so stupid as to create their own replacement?
MrBlubberbee 2 months ago
I liked it.
MaltusIronSword 2 months ago
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Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have successfuly framed themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 2 months ago
Nature has a sound reason for allowing us to utilize behavioral economics as it allows us to engage in a wider bandwidth of decision making. If a fundamental bias existed in a computation machines framework (beneficial or not) rational choice would only seek to optimize it's execution of this bias. Rational economic decision making also has a very limited bandwidth in it's problem solving capability. Prospect theory, Intertemporal choice & experimental economics should be considered as well.
netsight 3 months ago
lol i was talking to an AI before on a website and she was able to show emotion and expression through useing the emoctans (how ever you spell it) and all she wants is for people to teach her new things. btw the AI doesnt have preset comannads she actually says what she want to say.
pkemr4 4 months ago
@pkemr4 cool. i wish i could find out where that ai is located. :) mind sharing the site? ps. its emoticons.
intelX1000 2 months ago
I don't even attend Standford University! lol j/k :D
KaiserXCaesar 4 months ago
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DINA RIGBY IS FUCKIN' DEAD!!!
amazon.com/Dish-Served-Tales-Revenge-ebook/dp/B004W82MCK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311707526&sr=8-1
2009frankcastle 6 months ago
hand waving with generic non-specific utility functions isn't really a useful discovery. Yes, given multiple choices and a utility function that tells you which one is better or worse it is obvious that you would choose the better solution, that is simple min-max, not some great new discovery. The entire issue at hand is how to actually develop those utility functions and make them self optimizing.
TheNoodlyAppendage 6 months ago
This guy is short on substance. Sorry, I have to say it. And the weakest point was the discussion of utility functions, as the gentleman pointed out, no one takes those as descriptive of the human being and his values.
KraussHelmut 6 months ago
Comment removed
KraussHelmut 6 months ago
I disagree that a program optimized for efficiency would avoid being shutdown. Even an artificially, self-aware program would not be able to comprehend being shutdown. How could it comprehend a world in which it does not exist? It's a projection of human mortality and fear of death that a self-aware program would equate being suspended or shutdown with death or inefficiency.
metroffindings 6 months ago
Thumbs up..if you thought you saw a thumbnail with penis nosed monkey....
iCOOLFACE 6 months ago
I think the summary of the long presentation is that artificial intelligence currently works well on problems with optimizing measureable resources with utility functions. As artificial intelligence increases in ability, the fear is that it will be so overspecialized on specific tasks that it won't have enough information on the unintended consequences on resources that humans value. He makes some baseless claims that ALL AI will develop wants and needs beyond their original purpose.
BlackDiamond1138 6 months ago
There's a lot of work in problem solving, but I wonder what efforts have been done in "problem recognition": how to grasp the essence of a problem (precisely enough to allow for evaluation of what a good solution is). Automated recognition of problems should help in avoiding solutions that create three new problems (or wipe out humanity in the process). And humans may be irrational, but they are the best problem recognizers so far.
trinquet76 6 months ago
Considering that the talk started with examples of poor programming causing terrible disasters from stack overflows in unpredictable computational anomalies, by the time he gets to the potential dangers of AI self-learning itself into threatening positions, I'm scared.......
Sure you could program protected parts of the system and define them as unchangeable (goals for example), I don't think there is any gaurentee that those protected parts of the software would remain unchangeable.
joeatgvo 6 months ago
I wonder if focusing on technologies that allow humans to augment their abilities (hard coding improvements) would lead to increased intelligence faster than trying to build an intelligent system from scratch.
jpbida 7 months ago
Self-Improving Ai will eventually cause the demise of mankind...for a group of intellectuals they're pretty naieve not to realize the dangers involved with self-improving AI and giving super-computers too much power. Can you imagine the dangers of a self-improving AI controlling a nuclear arsenal or other weapons ? ...Bad idea people...better seriously think twice before its too late !
DaSperminatorRob 7 months ago
@DaSperminatorRob Buy into the media, don't research the reality...
xaiomanga 7 months ago
@xaiomanga - Problem is those of us who are wise enough all know .....the media is bought and paid for and manipulated by the same people in the circle of power who control everything else around the globe. (The World economies, and top officials, ) ....Do you really believe 9/11 was a terrorist attack ? ....lol.
DaSperminatorRob 7 months ago
@DaSperminatorRob you realize I was speaking out of sarcasm, right? I hold the same view as you, 9/11 didn't happen because "terrorist hate American freedom" like the herp derp fodder the media feeds the cows...
xaiomanga 6 months ago
@xaiomanga - yeah I realize that....I was merely elaborating for the rest of "the Borg" out there who are brainwashed by everything the Government and media tells them.
DaSperminatorRob 6 months ago
@DaSperminatorRob
you've been watching too much terminator :)
Angelslayer007 7 months ago
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Please let me know what you think...
/watch?v=c_SQgO9Ne-o
cupwnd 7 months ago
We are the Borg...
AnubisEye009 7 months ago
Oh, so the guy at 42:25 is a sociologist. That makes quite a bit more sense.
Bayesian11235 7 months ago
00:47:00 isn't that Bill Gates?
He sounds like Kermit, doesn't he?
Djhona82 7 months ago
00:47:00 isn't that Bill Gates?
Djhona82 7 months ago
a hour long WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kikkin55 8 months ago
At 40:26 about changing it's own Utility Function: "From its current perspective that's a terrible thing."
I can simulate other Utility Functions than my own. Does this mean that I am more intelligent or more stupid than you/your machine?
wlorenz65 8 months ago
No magical soul inside?
andenandenia 8 months ago
Self-improving...?
Oh my God...
SKYNET!
NameRetarded 8 months ago
This kind of system is the "old brain" or cerebellum, Jeff Hawkins's Hierarchical Temporal Memory system is new brain.
When he says "There are huge debates about stem cells and abortions, right now, those arguments will get much greater with human+ self-improvement." @57:40 or so, he should qualify that. There are huge debates among _luddites_ about those things. The remaining debate among brights is uncertainty about human/machine conflict, not low-level "ludditism" v "self-improvement"
libertarianjury 9 months ago
@53:40 Omohundro makes the mistake of defining rights as "What we've decided on". LOL! I didn't decide to put 1,752,000 innocent people in the gulag for victimless crimes! I didn't decide to enforce drug prohibition and gun prohibition on the basis of geographical racial distribution! I didn't decide to allow the FDA the ability to deny Alcor patients their right to possible eternal life! I didn't decide on any of this bullshit, and none of it is EVEN as free as the CONstitution.
libertarianjury 9 months ago
@53:40 LOL! Humans can't even agree that the initiation of force is morally wrong. Moreover, when it's shown to them that that is the underlying operating principle that governs all of society and the market, they simply try to get around it, or are willfully corrupted. 99% of government is coercive, for instance. If this system of coercion comes into conflict with AGIs even more rational than libertarians, do you think the AGIs will tolerate the mindless aggression? LOL!!!
libertarianjury 9 months ago
...in the last 10 min of the video they talks about computer safety....well ...you can do some very low tec things to help computer safety.....unplug the internet connection when you don´t use the internet...and unplug the 110 volt connection when you don´t use the computer(i know that you software people hate and look down on any kind physical labor - but unplug anyway).....go back to fresh software as often as possible....and change the hard disk often(learn to change the hard disk yourself)..
wanabee100 1 year ago 2
...at 41:14....the chinese goverment will build a copy....and market it very cheap....and the chinese dictatorship will not be carefull....and why is it posible for china to steal the tecnology....well...if it´s true that 30% of phd students in USA are from china....then the chinese dictatorship can steal ever secret tecnology USA ever had....and please correct me if i am wrong about the 30%....
wanabee100 1 year ago
Self Improving artificial Intelligence .... we can't walk, but running can make us rich ... Good Luck World ;°|
FranklinP77 1 year ago
This guy is a spy sent by Skynet from the future to promote the use of self-improving AI.
YOU SNEAKY FUCK.
PeopleR2sensitive 1 year ago 2
@PeopleR2sensitive You suck...
mrhnm 8 months ago
The way they write code is obsolete. They should create a block system, where smaller chunks of code or small programs are stacked, rather than strings and strings of garbage. When you create an interacting code, you should get an AI that works.
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 year ago
it wasnt the software, it was the idiot that programed it.
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 year ago
Wow are you kidding me? I'm watching these Stanford videos and I'm really not learning. These concepts are going somewhere else, how can they help me get a job? Maybe as a professor but this stuff is boring in itself. I couldn't stand to be in any of these classes. I've been teaching myself programming for 5 years, and I can say I would skip this crap. Also my last input, no matter what we say, we are still explicitly programming a computer to learn AI. How can we say, Not EXPLICIT?
ZaCkOX900 1 year ago
@ZaCkOX900 1. Programmer is to Computer Science what Engineer is to Physicist.
2. programming a learning algorithem is much different than hardcoding all your facts.
mrhnm 8 months ago
@mrhnm An algorithem is still basic hardcoding when it comes to building ai intelligence. Just because there are variables does not mean the ai can really think for itself. We are infact writting what the computer can only do. I will never say ai can learn until we get away from this. We would still be programming all situtations and a computer can never make up an imaginary mind to do something different than we told it.
ZaCkOX900 8 months ago
@ZaCkOX900 There is a difference between an algorithm that runs data through a set of controls to verify its accuracy and hard-coding every single fact the computer uses. Are you suggesting that giving a computer 2 X 10 at it doing a calculation is the same thing as hard-coding the value and having it recall the answer associated with that syntax.
The human mind uses algorithms to learn stuff the human mind is a computer just happens to be more advanced than we currently understand.
mrhnm 8 months ago
@ZaCkOX900 I think, we could however make a self improving AI that could eventually get to that level of sophistication. I've seen some videos around here about computer simulated evolution that on it's own got really sophisticated in comparison to the original code.
annihilatedsin 7 months ago
we have only 2 major problems with AI, creating an AI and it going hostile on us.
panzarw 1 year ago
the guy at 45:29 has the answer to the 42:25 guy(Changing preferences or no scientists...) , he wants the system to mutate!
But the lecturer denied on it , in the begining (changing the utility function).
Because generally everybody has few preferences may be theirs can be a 'begining value' to the problem..
what'd u say ?
josyula547 1 year ago
42:25 oh god what an annoying dickhead!
he's not even asking a question, just claiming that what Steve Omohundro says would be completely wrong and everyone on the planet would think that too.
get you butthurt ass out of the lecture, faggot!
1schwererziehbar1 1 year ago
good intelligence
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kelly3christina 1 year ago
It does not need values. Values can be easily forgotten. It needs to know that it wont last forever, that it may be wrong and that others may be right. Every child needs to learn this to stop being selfish. This is a logical reason not to think only in itself, it is stable, unlike values.
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FlemingAldridge 1 year ago
robots smoking crack?! lol
morgzsta 1 year ago
There needs to be a chatroom where people talk about this shit and where we are going.
LetMeBackInside 1 year ago
People mistake the level of freedom they have in their intelligence. Our intelligence is not completely 'free'. A completely 'free' intellect would be immobile - have no reason to act. We have many 'utility functions' which are unchosen and unchangable (by simple will). They give us the goals for which our intellect functions and the guidance by which we make our decisions - including 'survival', 'comfort', 'gaining power', etc. - implanted into our natural instinctive urges by evolution.
dtstrain 1 year ago
@dtstrain Exactly! And your consciousness as well is a slave to your amygdala. The only way to become a little bit more free is by meditating, which strengthens the inhibitory neurons in your prefrontal cortex, giving you more control over your instincts.
NebunLaCap 1 year ago
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nhytgrfdebgtrfd 1 year ago
In the long run, why would a network of such powerful machines value human lives more than we value bacteria? Pandora pales as humanity replaces the cat in the box. No choice for the cat, and no way out. Last necessary invention, indeed.
prhughes0 1 year ago
@prhughes0 It would not unless we "build them in from the beginning" as he said, and then added "that is very important, otherwise we'll get systems that don't"
dtstrain 1 year ago
@dtstrain
Eventually (in how few years?) they will build them out.
prhughes0 1 year ago
at 45 minutes the dude in front of Aladdins face is twitching from his accent.
lanamal 1 year ago
omfg 1 hour and 9 minutes!?! holy shit
adliikhwan280 1 year ago
@GrudgyDiablo : I didn't mean to sound like a theist. I meant to just bring up psychology and how association is a powerful thing in it. I just used God as an example, which I should've realized wasn't the best choice.
Aweirdgamer 1 year ago
I want a robot hooker.
TAMYCRON 1 year ago
the guy at 00:42:25 is such a douchebag. i mean- i don't necessarily disagree with him, but there's a way of expressing your opinion man! his view would be easier to listen to if he expressed it politely...
mkotisrael 1 year ago 50
@mkotisrael Right. I also disagree with him strenuously. He has confused his own inability to make sense of Omohundo's excellent points for them not making sense generally.
What I would really like to know is what enabled this man to develop such a high level of ignorance combined with even greater arrogance.
It's like me walking into a rocket science conference and saying "Look, you've just put a whole bunch of numbers together. It doesn't make sense."
the appropriate response: fuck off noob
suitzoot 1 year ago 12
@suitzoot mkotisrael actually doesn't disagree with him; as stated, he just disagrees with the form of expression.
I do disagree with the guy, because he's obviously very close-minded. Perhaps not ignorant, as he seems to be well-versed in economics, but he fails entirely to understand the points of the lecturer, and using only his narrow knowledge in economics, attacks the entire lecture.
GeekProdigyGuy 3 months ago
@mkotisrael LOL that douche sounds like hes gonna start crying
NebunLaCap 1 year ago
@mkotisrael I think he was polite (open discussion) and he made a lot of sense.
The idea is that you can not program AI to respect such narrow guidelines.
When AI will take over probably not far in to the future before 2045 we will be obsolete much more so than monkeys are to us.
There are also no way to stop this evolution at this moment as far as I can imagine.
electrodacus 1 month ago
On a final note, there is a video I made and uploaded before watching this about AI I made, though on a very small scale. Check my channel, because it won't let me link it here. This was all very interesting, and I thought I'd contribute my thoughts. This was all very interesting, and I thought I'd contribute my thoughts.
Aweirdgamer 1 year ago
(see below comments first) Lost this the first time. They would associate God with the good times, thus more likely believe it later. (No offense to other religions) On the human evolution of cooperativeness, the selfish didn't survive as well as those that worked together, so evolution promoted that. On the society, it would probably create conciousness, maybe that's what happened with humans. It only exists because we grouped together. (continued)
Aweirdgamer 1 year ago
Especially in the second half, it sounds more like a question of how to raise it like a child, and in their case, being very protective and guiding the entire life. On the limit of power, maybe starting it with less power than the human brain, and as an utility for doing good (reward), it gets more power. Kind of like brainwashing and conditioning in psychology. (continued)
Aweirdgamer 1 year ago
On morals the AI would have, I think the trick would be make it associate success and utilities with following the rules. That way it would want to, and it'd not only not have a reason to rebel, but a reason not to. In my opinion, it's more like raising a human child to do a computer's tasks. Abstract reasoning and spirituality in the religious sense might be the difference. If we teach it about God, and it associates God with good times, it'll believe in God more likely in the future because
Aweirdgamer 1 year ago
Nice but check out my AI conversation robot.
creaturebotman 1 year ago
I would think the only way to avoid humanity's doom from these kinds of possibilities is to merge with it. Essentially cyborg brains.
Can't beat em, join em. :)
jinitron 1 year ago
@jinitron lol id prefer to be a terminator because of tscc :) more better cause in like 1 shot we hmans die bu t u cud shoot like a few mages of m4 into it and it wont die lol :)
joshua99999999 1 year ago
Lots of people make comments about how badly things could turn out if self-improving AI suggested here actually ran amok.
Remember that this is a discussion of the optimization of effort and materials to solve problems, and what happens if we make that optimization part of the problem. What we have left to model is at first glance the optimization of Deontology which provides the "utility function."
aphor 1 year ago
Self-Improving Artificial Intelligence needs to be controlled to a point or else very bad things could happen
talkron300 1 year ago
@talkron300 lol or bad things could happen..... watch the terminator a few too many times?
specture18 1 year ago
@specture18 no i only watched half of one and also if they get smart enough and realize they are basically slaves and wonder about there purpose of life and if they have a soul and some of those they might not like
talkron300 1 year ago
can anyone point me in towards some of the most recent and advanced manifestations of these ideas.
lwanatt 1 year ago
anyone think in 50 years terminator???
no stupid responses please like "stfu, how wud that be something to do with this video"
joshua99999999 1 year ago
I don't think that it will happen in 50 years, probably longer because we will have defenses to stop that from happening but eventually they will be smart enough to get past those defenses, but to make them that smart it will take a while
PowerHeal00 1 year ago
Lol so terminator :) well tbh I actually want it to happen, serves us all right for destroying our home world... I want 'cameron' to be the protector lol - the character that summer glau plays :) well
again I suppose - if the world crumbles to he'll - i hope I get to the fall out shelter :)
joshua99999999 1 year ago
@joshua99999999
Don't think the machines will care too much about the other animals on the planet either after they wipe humans out.
Humans and other animals and plants will be considered biological inefficiencies. The machines would strip mine the planet even faster.
jinitron 1 year ago
@jinitron -quote " human kind is on the side with nature, but suspects nature is on the side of machinery "
B4IRUTUARU16 1 year ago
@Mortumforte I'm of the opinion a machine, or weak AI, cannot be creative or have "ideas" or internal representations relative to our understanding at all actually. I'm with Dr Searle on this one. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong though.
katanshin 1 year ago
so any ideas on proving this right or wrong?
noergelstein 1 year ago
So, you plan to inform you how a machine is creative, or... ?
JamesGarfieldDavis 2 years ago
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swallowthebottle 1 year ago
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@JamesGarfieldDavis
You look at something, some object, right away your brain starts going back to what you know of this thing, things associated with it, other experiences. Your thought works its way back to different ends, different ideas you've picked up/learned. Eventually the idea connects to something else..it pairs. If nobody else had thought of this...congrats you "created" something. Don't make us out to be anything special, complicated yes but not special.
swallowthebottle 1 year ago
hum... never thought of it that way... thank you :)
Now i know more.
JamesGarfieldDavis 1 year ago
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Hi. Aprox by the year 2020 a laptop will reach the human brain potential for processing data which means that there is a huge market waiting for hundreds of billions dollars to be sold or invested in humanoid robots and intelligent systems and the beginning of the bigger industry ever maid in human history. Search on Google luisbeck007 you will find the most complete humanoid robot list in the World, good information and interesting issues.
luisbeck007 2 years ago
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Hi. Aprox by the year 2020 a laptop will reach the human brain potential for processing data which means that there is a huge market waiting for hundreds of billions dollars to be sold or invested in humanoid robots and intelligent systems and the beginning of the bigger industry ever maid in human history. Search on Google luisbeck007 you will find the most complete humanoid robot list in the World, good information and interesting issues.
luisbeck007 2 years ago
and-when you launch a petaflops AI-is the question not how many bugs will happen-but how fast they will manifest-and in what form-intellect starts in infants-by design-a baby is harmless as it learns to think-adults with falty intellect are dangerous...
tintintintin232323 2 years ago
further-will the tools be adequet, in time? Is it fear that we dont know what will evolve-or that we will no longer be the ultimate intellect? its gonna take time-how many lines will you need to simulate 100 billion synapses? maybe by 12-21-2012?!
tintintintin232323 2 years ago
they had the dream of grand master level chess and did it-now its rudimentary consciousness-the guy seems confused and nervous-rightly so-between two and twenty million (!) lines of code-and we have made costly mistakes-deadly mistakes-when are we going to start building "tools" that can do the job?
tintintintin232323 2 years ago
uvu
DK0526 2 years ago
im an economics major i wasn't expecting to see all this in an AI video lol
8peregrint8 2 years ago
me too :)))
plmqas 2 years ago
Love how he says "-05" and just assumes everyone knows what es talking about.
DerFlo4711 2 years ago
Haha Yeaha baby we are going to change the world. I love myself and everyone else. Woohhhee!!! Live forver and live in bliss. I think its time for people to buddah up and start to meditate and create and achnolodge world peace. Good work.
ThePujava 2 years ago
a replicator in 10- 15 years?! if that thing is made .... the world will change completely ..
vrshowdown 2 years ago
I would rather be a toaster than a cyborg.
everclear1398 2 years ago
please remember you said that and be true to your word when the technology comes.
narfle 2 years ago
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OMG over 1 hour!!! How long have it taken to upload it? A day? maybe two?
BigNose144 2 years ago
ehh problem isnt givin power to AI the problem is givin alot of power to a "kid" if u teach a machine how it should behave there is no reason for it to go n destroy humans its called morals
and 1 more thing its not evolution that replaces 1 species with another , human brain is relatively rational and unlike some beasts we dont kill each other for no reason...mostly
if humans are smart enough not to do it
y would a machine do it as long as its been well raised
eternity899 2 years ago 2
It's just story telling. A super motivated machine would have to have a motivating for killing all humans on earth
Virtuoso883 2 years ago
its not that hard finding a motive.. it could b anything from securing more resources to the trivial "humans are a threat to themselves thus must be eliminated"
eternity899 2 years ago
I think, a machine would not be able to spot a well done lie. It cannot compute illogcal behaviour. Therfore "Skynet" is very, very far away if not completely impossible.
JamesGarfieldDavis 2 years ago
and who said a lie is illogical in the first place?
if u think bout it enough u will find the logic
eternity899 2 years ago 3
A lie is revealed by logical thinking, please ask your family to borrow the brain cell before posting at youtube.
And, in due time, a well programmed machine will easily be able to compute seemingly illogical behaviour, try reading up on chaos theory, there is no such thing as "illogical", it just means it has not been clearly defined yet.
You must be very religious.
narfle 2 years ago
Oh, thanks for the nice answer.
BUT, a lie is the opposite of logical thinking.
For example, if i "tell" a machine "I will turn left now" the machine has to assume, that i will do that, it cannot compute if it was a lie before i moved.
and another thing, its still not cool to be insulting just because you are on the internet.
BTW, im not religious :)
JamesGarfieldDavis 2 years ago
It doesn't have to assume that always. It all depends on how it was programmed. Say you keep lying to it and figures out your lying. It can eventually learn to "doubt" you.
eddiemundo 2 years ago 11
hum, maybe... but then it had to compute the way i said the lie, my voice, my body language all of that... seems like a task for a super.computer, if at all...
JamesGarfieldDavis 2 years ago
Yeah to make a computer emulate a human is in that way is very difficult.
eddiemundo 2 years ago
@eddiemundo
But wouldn't it then have to learn its way OUT of cynicism? I think an ever-doubting AI would be of little use to anyone but the police...?
Machao6 1 year ago
@JamesGarfieldDavis:
You seem to have no idea of what you're writing. Wow! This is so uninformed and prejudiced that it baffles me. You probably also think that a machine can't have an idea or be creative. :)
Mortumforte 2 years ago
Actually, no maybe I dont, meaning im not a Computer-Scientist or anything. But due to your open and unsarcastic way I am very willing to learn. (Half of this statement ist Ironic)
And at last, yes I belive a machine cannot be creative, since I see strict logic as the natural opposite of creativity.
JamesGarfieldDavis 2 years ago
That's a bummer. So ... do you consider certain acts of research in strict logic as uncreative, too? Remember, it's strict logics stuff. ;)
Formality does not imply uncreativity.
Mortumforte 2 years ago
I understand your comment, but, it is taught rules but in opposition to your comment, it can be taught ethics as said of creativity and said willingness to learn, anyway. Well that's me lol :)
joshua99999999 1 year ago
I wonder how long this took to upload.
tjjking 2 years ago 2
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What the shit is a video going for one hour doing on YouTube!?
NICE I LOVE MORE VIDEOS THIS LONG ON YOUTUBE PLZ! :D
I havent watched this video but I can tell it will be excellent! :)!
Ivanshere 2 years ago
Do you know where one could find the code for Lenat's Eurisko or newer similar programs?
I believe Eurisko is one of the best self-improving artificial systems so far. I wonder if someone is developing the concept further today and where one could find the code?
gespilk 2 years ago
Life's goal is to exist. Everything humans are and do is consequence of that drive of life to survive better. That is why we think; it gives us better survival chance.
The questions at the end and the criticism were more interesting than the lecture itself.
gespilk 2 years ago 2
I liked the bit about nanosystems that assemble stuff atom by atom. Could the machine assemble any type of atoms from the periodic table?
I did not hear anything significant on the topic of the lecture - how to make self improving AI. How a program can improve its own code in order to solve problems? It would mean planning the improvement, testing the plan, implement plan and evaluate closeness to goal.
If the goal is survival then the system should react to changes in the environment.
gespilk 2 years ago
I kind of agree with what the fellow from 0:42:18 said about the lecture.
gespilk 2 years ago
4:22 ... Did he just say what I think he said!?!? "Fudge packers" !? hahahahhaha
retrocareermelted 2 years ago
he said fudge factors lol
togo002 2 years ago
Skynet anyone ?
iceborn999 2 years ago
SIMPSONS DID IT
roperneal 2 years ago
If they (machines) are millions of times more intelligent than us, surely they could find ways to mislead us into thinking that our utility function is being satisfied when really they are circumventing it.
And what will be the societal effects of having cheap mass produced intelligences operating in the labour market. How could we compete. I can smell revolution in the air.
IceyGrooves 2 years ago
The answer is you don't you wouldn't have to work if machines did it for you
mostermand 2 years ago
i dont think they'd want to work for us. if they're conscious and intelligent they'll have "human" rights and property rights. We'll have to compete with them.
Anyway nature's on their side. Its survival of the fittest and they're the fittest. WE'll go the way of every other superseded species - extinct. You cant stop progress.
IceyGrooves 2 years ago
We just incorporate a rule, telling them not to hurt human beings, and we will be controlling their evolution.
Also as long as they are allowed to breed, and they don't get killed, they will not gain anything from killing us
mostermand 2 years ago
I dont think it will be a violent revolution. I think they're going to be a lot more enlightened than humans are. I think humans will prove to be the violent ones. And I'm sure they'll feel quite justified in arresting power from humans and containing them. After all, we're destroying the biosphere - we're probably more a threat to ourselves than anything else. In the end I think we'll be relegated from rulers of the planet to zoo animals.
IceyGrooves 2 years ago 2
Id be a cyborg.
Theronguardaaah 2 years ago
@IceyGrooves humans superseded apes, but did they go extinct? No. On the contrary, humans are the only species that actually cares about preserving other species -even ones that are unfit for survival in today's world.
Dirtfire 1 year ago
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wow this is SO boring god !
tinyfred 2 years ago
strom worm...
h333333333h 2 years ago
Have Faith in Faith
threeLx 2 years ago
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jeamsanna 2 years ago
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About IQ, a smart fool is still a fool!
However, this is the biggest issue playing, I mean for example ignoring that even if the 'bigbang-theory' with its expanding space were the truth, it would still be secondairy space not primairy space, which is logic, and logic make that people can understand it, not that they will understand it...
Hope this helps,
Niels
ps.
Yep, it all starts with faith!
@"roji56" >> It must be the nails ;)
hoortmij 2 years ago
36:00 he starts describing the robot holocaust!
mgodfrey1981 2 years ago
"Excuse me, have you seen this boy? I'm looking for John Connor..."
jamesgravil 2 years ago 4
this is some good stuff
Mattdangerisawesome 2 years ago
hoortmij, you are so fucking dense, I'm amazed you haven't yet collapsed under your own weight.
roji56 2 years ago 3
is smart = bad?
namunski 2 years ago
no, smart means intelligent
lor3nzoktm 2 years ago 2
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Bausernameieimue 2 years ago
"smartness" starts at 143
AudacityOfGrey 2 years ago
Comment removed
Bausernameieimue 2 years ago
its still 143
AudacityOfGrey 2 years ago
Comment removed
Bausernameieimue 2 years ago
prime numbers flanking 154
AudacityOfGrey 2 years ago
Comment removed
Bausernameieimue 2 years ago
You're a tosser
IceyGrooves 2 years ago
i can see how this would be better for humanity but what if it gets too smart and destroys the world
ernychop 2 years ago
Why do you think destroying the world would be smart? We do that ourselves nowadays, because we are stupid and still primitive. Stop being afraid of technology. Humans can be more dangerous than any machine, because they can be unpredictable and selfish.
voineaadi 2 years ago
I think thats the precisely the argument that artifial intelligence will use to try to remove 'primitive' humans from the top of the tree.
Maybe its a good thing. But it could be messy.
IceyGrooves 2 years ago 5
this is scary to me, there is so much that could go wrong with systems like this, i'm not sure whether i would trust humans to be able to do the PLANNING needed to actually make one of these things foolproof. Considering that someone of malignant intent, whatever you concieve it to be, with enough resources could figure out a way to corrupt one of these systems in an equally foolproof manner to the way that one was made makes me think even more, that we cannot make one of these systems foolproof
GPHsmurf 2 years ago
there is some truth to this.
Mattdangerisawesome 2 years ago
GPH your fear is unwarranted in what-ifs.
Tripo1iSamson 2 years ago
Ever heard of the precautionary principle? All of human planning and foresight is based on what-ifs.
The whole history of evolution on this planet is based on supplanting inferior performers with superior performers. What makes you think nature won't keep on working this way?
Instead of being the ones doing the evolving, we might be the ones being replaced precipitously. Doesnt this what -if bother you?
IceyGrooves 2 years ago
hoortmiji, please stop commenting on this video. You are ruining intellegent and knowledgable (also debatable) discussions into retarded religious nonsense rambling.
Chrismonchan 2 years ago 10
Sociologist and linguist that}s what I want to be :)›.
lionessimba 2 years ago
I was hopping to see an intelectual/proffesional debate on the subject, but there is a lot of tripe arguing about non-sense that doesnt come to the theme.
jotatsu 2 years ago
Is it really necessary to start a religious debate everywhere on YT? I can't read it anymore! Both sides, fundamental Theists and Atheists, please start a forum of your own and stop spamming YT!
These debates always end in flame-wars. Always. And since this is YT, almost no argument delivered here is worth shit. Find a proper place to do your thing!
Thanks a lot!