If Tau go first? Yes. If they go second? They will lose drones, fail morale, and fallback screaming 3 d6 off of the board. They will be in enemy assault range by turn 3 and Tau will die. Take an ethereal! You will fail morale twice, fall back, and die. He will assault, you will lose combat, fail morale, lose initiative, and you will die. If the enemy gets close, Tau will die. Period.
so i wish to ask (as an inexperienced player) could a Vet Tau Player beat say... a new Mechanized Imp Guard player? Bearing in kind that they both play-to-win and dont hold back on Cheese
Im just gonna comment on this video, even though I believe it's complete BullShit. I am gonna offend you, Im sorry for doing so, but it's just that you're not only talking non-sense, you're also trying to shove your (rather stupid) opinion into other people's throats. Let me start by sayin I'm a necron player. I used to play with the Old Codex and now I'm playing with the new So, same experience, same knowledge. I'm also playing DeathWing(Dark Angels),Dark Eldar, Blood Angels.
@TheAvenger154 So, with the old Codex, I joined a couple of tournies and tried to be as competitive as the codex let me. I was almost always placed arround the last spots. While I did win my friends' Dark eldar or Space Marines sometimes, if you wanna talk competitive, and you do want to, let's just say that 3rd Ed Necrons SUCKED. Yes, it was my only army and I loved them but they sucked! Now, the new 'dex is out and I've won most(if not all) of the games I've played.
@TheAvenger154 I got 2nd place in a tourny becase a lucky dark eldar player didnt seem to lose his 2+ invo.. So the same player, with the same experience(Or even less, because the codex now is new) used to win very few friendly games but now can win every competitive game he plays. Now, thats not really up to me, the codex strength has taken effect. There is a damn reason why you would never EVER see Necrons do well in competitive tournies. Because the codex SUCKED.
First off, the old necron codex sucks when compared to any 5th edition codex. As someone who runs grey knights and ran necrons for a while with their last codex, I know what I'm talking about.
@CSMatherly You´re just so ridiculously wrong i dont think you even had your brain activated when writing this. I know a GK and a nec player, they are brothers and both really good (the GK just annihilated me a couple of weeks ago with his muzza fuzza stormraven with the paladins in it) but still the nec player has only lost once so far and they play often. Experience counts and thats all and hes the more experienced one.
@Buemmo When a codex suffers like the necron codex suffered, what I said is completely reasonable and legitimate. The necrons didn't get an update for 9 years. I'm not denying that experience matters but this cosplay faggot who made the vid is acting like its a piece of cake to beat the GK codex with the old cron codex. It's difficult to beat any 5th edition codex with a 3rd edition codex, especially when they have a fucking 9 year difference. Yeah, my brain was turned on asshole. stfu,
@CSMatherly ummm.... first of all wth is your problem with cosplay? And no. its never a piece of cake to beat someone when he/she/it is using the least little amount of brain (or more) but still the necrons were a good and are powerful codex. Knowledge and experience counts always more than having a "new codex" GK are not OP or "better". they simply are very expensive and so every single model is good too.
@Buemmo Cosplay is for faggots (and I don't mean gay ppl, gay ppl are fine, I mean ppl who are generally disliked). Here's why the necron codex was NOT viable in 5th edition. Necrons had one very pricy troop choice which you could only take in a squad of 10. Our 1 HQ, a necron lord, came with mostly overpriced and shitty wargear options. Veil of darkness and rez orbs were the only useful things and they were FAR too expensive. Necrons had no transport vehicles so you had to walk up the
field attempting to get in range with your rapid fire weapons. Good luck! to get them up the field you'll also need 1-2 monoliths to teleport them into fire range and out of CC where they will die (provided they didnt get sweeping advanced in the previous turn) If you lose your monoliths, you've lost. that's 470 points off the field and your scattered warriors will just get ripped apart. Almost all the fast attack and elite options were overpriced for what they had to offer.
I'd have to say that most codices suck... because they just encourage people to spam a particular unit or certain wargear. It might help make games go quicker, but it also makes them uninterestong...
I've also recently discovered that I can almost play something similar to my usual Marine list, for less points, and in my opinion, better abilities, using the SW codex. I don't get to use the same special characters... but a good codex should not rely on them anyway.
@ArynCrinn I agree with this. I've only played one or 2 games, at best. From what I've seen in battle reports, from people talking, and just generally from me flipping through my own books people are encouraged to spam a certain kind of unit, with a certain kind of upgrade. Take Hive Guard, for example. Guard armies are encouraged to spam tanks, which I find really, really boring. Wolves spam Long Fangs and Blood Angels spam tons of priests. Point is, it's the codex, not the player.
Yeah... Hive Guard do not belong... BS4, S8 weapons that do not need line of sight?
Where's all the human hordes these days? How often do you see full infantry platoons?
A squad of Long fangs can take 5 missile launchers for 10 points less than a regular marine devastator squad with only 4.
Blood Angels can have 9 sang priests, giving FNP and FC to units withing 6"... vanilla marines can take 2 apothecaries, whoe only give FNP to the unit they are in...
@ArynCrinn Hey, I don't know Tyranids that well. All I know is people talk about using Hive Guard alot, and I seem to see them in every nid list. I remember people saying that it's one of the few viable elite choices for Tyranids. Not sure if that's true, just saying it's what I've heard. Another thing that comes to mind is Chaos Marines. Every army is basically plague marines/2 princes with lash and obliterators. GW needs to make ALL army options viable. I'd love to see an IG spam.
@Necronlord101 So true about the chaos marines... I do see the occasional terminator or Khorne berzerker as well, but I can't say I've seen many people using regular chaos marines, noise marines, or thousand sons... and Greater Daemons? How often do you see anyone use them?
All options should be viable. What good is a bunch of choices, when half of them are useless/overpriced?
Your logic is flawed. The Grey Knight Codex is so strong, it allows a brand new player to compete with veteran players using lower tier codexes. I have witnessed this myself several times. All Codexes are not on an equal power level, and it is naive and foolish to believe they are. I have 15 years of wargaming experience and have been playing 40K since 3rd edition. I can tell you right now, the Grey Knight Codex is overpowered.
@skywise07 I've witness this senario at my game club 3rd edition necrons vs grey knights and the necron player won because his tatics were way better the grey knight player got slaughterd so he is right.
@theraynor1995 Nearly all Blood Angels can get furious charge...by either getting Red Thirst or having a sang priest. Death Company have WS5 and 2 attacks on their profile. Death Company and Furioso dreadnoughts can be pretty scary... Blood angels can take assault marines as troops, and can have cheaper assault terminators.
Space wolves have counter attack, which doesn't really encourage you to assault the enemy, and doesn't grant the +1 I and +1 S.
I like playing Space Marines. No BA, no SW, no GK. Just Space Marines. Why? Chronus, Tellion, Vulkan, MotF with Conversion beamer.... That codex is full of characters with great abilities and lots of interesting chapter tactics
I like the topic, lets keep 5th Ed. around, at least a couple years after the last 5ed codex... I mean, are they going to release a new Ed. with the last codex for 5th...???
I can see where an old dex might have some disadvantages, It's all up to a player, making a list, playing well with said list, not rolling horribly, and having fun...LOL but now there's a new Dex for crons too. who doesn't have a 5th Ed. codex yet?
With that being said, I agree with the end of your argument. Players should first look to themselves and improve themselves before blaming outside factors, as they themselves are the easiest problem to rectify.
Unlike what you said, however, I do think that there are inherently easier to play and downright more efficient codices in the game simply because it is devised and implemented as a system of arbitrarily valued points by people, who will always make mistakes.
@kingensai Absolutely. I believe some codices are easier than others but I don't connect that with being either over powered or simply better. Often times if a codex is easier it simply lays out the choices for you. for instance space wolves. why would you choose a predator over longfangs? the choice is basically laid out for the player. and people get mad when they see choices like that getting spammed and they cry "OP!"
@GamzaTheChaosSoldier Fair enough. I still think that the gaming savages require at least a rudimentary summary of what is required to win so that somewhere in the back of their uncivilized brains, there lays the notion of what is required to succeed.
I think the message you put across here is WAY too simplistic. Victory in 40k is determined by 5 factors: Codex, List, Skill, Environment, and Luck. You are putting forth that Skill is the only determining factor in outcome of games. This is only true in games where there is no luck factor and no player choice in playing piece composition. In the game of 40k, Skill is probably the most important, but it is not the only factor. If skill is equal, then the other factors magnify in importance.
I agree. I, a chaos daemons player, fight to a draw against grey knights multiple times, and he uses those tournament level henchman/purifier lists. He's also way more experienced in 40k than I am. He's like a 8 or 9 year college student. I'm a 16 year old with maybe 3 years of exp.
Maybe it's just the randomness of my army throwing him off, but if codexs are the main deciding factor, than me, a CSM/Daemons player, should be getting drilled in the majority of the games I play.
Your totaly wrong if the old necrons face of Geert knigits the necrons would lose so bad. Just look at mike from miniwargaming video of necron tactica the only tactic of necrons is get lots and lots of necron warriors and thats it the Greey knights have many more kinds of Units so theye can take something to kill the lord and no we Will be back rolls for the necrons
And he grew to dislike "The Railgun Death sentence", 9 Broadsides, with lots of meatshields (kroot) protecting them. I didn't play for objectives, so much as I picked one of his units and made it die-removing their cover saves, so all his wolfguard had were their Crux save.
We don't speak of the Apocalypse game where I used my Chaos AND my Tau against his Space Wolves (5th) and Eldar-indeed we don't speak of Apocalypse EVER since. His armies were saying "Oh what a lovely tea party" after that
But the idea is that the Grey Knight player would have access to Spamable units that are quite good. With proper unit construction, you could completely negate any chance of a counterattack by an enemy. Grey Knight shooting is...sickeningly effective.
The guy who taught me was an experienced Space Wolf player, his army was built for 3rd-4th edition. I went online and read up about Tau 5th edition tactics and army list building...and stomped his ass. Repeatedly. He stopped taking dreds.
I guess some questions can be answered when the new Necron Codex comes out Later this week/start of next week.
As a codec connoisseur I have to add another layer to that arguement. It's not only about how long you've played with a codex, every time I get a new codex I end up playing better than the last one. Another factor is codex tactics vs your own preference. If close combat is your ideal army and you pick up Tau, how many games do you think you will win? On the other hand you pick up Or
And the comparisons to the Space Marine codex and the Chapter Codex's are rather moot. The Space Marine Codex is the ideal codex for players whose play styles aren't relative to Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Black Templars, etc.
Players tend to choose the Chapter Codex' over the Space Marine Codex for the specific play style.
Your argument is rather half stilted because experienced players know that old codex' aren't written for 5th edition and thus have serious weaknesses in 5th edition.
That's a pretty ambiguous statement. The Necron players have a harder time than the Grey Knights because their codex was not written for 5th edition or with 5th edition jargon.
The same thing with Tau. After 5th edition released, codexes tailored for 5th edition had cheaper transports or options because 5th edition favors transport heavy armies, however, the Tau codex was written for 4th edition, which not only still talks about priority checks, but their transports are 60% more expensive.
I do agree with the main argument of this video, you shouldn't think you're going to win your games with the shiny bits that the newer codexes dangle in front of you, and experience and strategy are going to be the better tools in a match. That and a good dice throw.
I don't really think that Blood Angels really can do everything that Space Marines can do, and I haven't really heard anyone boasting about it either. They are absolutely not as versatile as them, you can't really use any sort of trickery allowing you to field elites as troops, or have entirely bike mounted armies. You can however have a very fast one, with a few gizmos and oddities that will sometimes make your opponent bang his head on the wall the first time he plays against them.
Let me start by saying that I love ur videos. I like using ur tactics, watching ur battle reports, and snagging ideas from your painting vids. Having said that, Im afraid that i do not agree 100%. while u absolutely need to have skill, smarts, and experience with 40k, lets face it; some armies just have it tougher. A perfect example is the tau. This army is much harder to win with if u have a more modern and updated codex. since this army is all about shooting, dont you think that BS 4 is better
I use to be the worst of my friends at the game and would always loose, but I spent time working on my list and developing my strategies and I'm unstoppable!
Whether I'm playing Imperial Guard (personal favorite), Grey Knights, Space Marines, or Dark Angels I normally win.
For a long time, I was able to get good results out of the old 3rd edition Ork Codex: other people usually had newer Codices than me, but my finely-honed Waaagh was usually able to defeat them through experience.
When the current Ork Codex was released, all of a sudden I found myself able to field all of my Boyz and still have points left for big guns. Using them just ceased to be a challenge- a major reason behind why I mostly use Renegade Guard these days
@dragonstormx Not true they have one major weakness! They can be overrun really easily! Playing against my friends Nids is a challenge cause I don't have the disposable troops. I have to make every move carefully.
I've looked at the Grey Knights codex it sounds like one of the worst things the Nids can go against because of their heavy weapons. In fact I've that amongst competitive lists, the only armies that can consistently beat them are Dark Eldar spamming poison and dark lances, Space Marines spamming assault cannons, and Tau spamming rail guns.
To be honest with you, Gray knights most of the time would destroy Necrons. All those force weapons, denial of invuls and what not.. Necrons do need an update. Also Vanilla marines simply aren't as good because the specialized chapters DO tend to do better. Look at all the best lists. None of them are Necrons or vanilla. Just saying.
While I understand your statement, it is flawed. It is like saying that Lance Armstrong on his bike could beat an porche driver with 1 year experience on the indy 500 track, because it is not the vehicle (bicycle vs porche), but the driver.
I do agree, however, that any good player playing any codex, can take advantage of errors in the opponent's play. And that speaks to the player ability.
But, if no mistakes are made, the game will go to the better codex.
@Rlyehable No at that point you're saying the codex will carry the person. I am simply saying that even after skills are matched the army list they built takes into effect. but before that the players experience takes priority. two equal matched players maybe one decided to risk taking 3 units of terminators and fails at taking a game winning objective at this point his army list failed him not just his play skills and or codex.
hmm hard to say...but i think that you are wrong in one way. Yes none codex sux, indeed, but some codexes are harder to play...and some more depends on luck....its difference....but that makes armyes diffferent with own style and differente fell to play for them....i played SM and them Witch hunters-AS ....AS codex is harder to do usefull play, when you try AS as SM it will work but you will still play with poor version of SM=sux....SO ..none codex sux....but some are harder:) And-DICE is bith
I can both agree and disagree with this. For the agreement: yeah... I was a new player, playing Marines and Imperial Guard, who got regularly stomped by veterans playing 3rd edition Necrons and Dark Eldar. Experience does play a HUGE role in the game. On the disagreement, I think that newer codices give players more options to play with, and an already-experienced player will become even deadlier with a newer codex. Experience, though, definitely remains the most important factor.
I definitely disagree. I do get where you are coming from. But.... When 1 codex has something pretty much the same as another codex for half the point cost, the new book wins. I have personally played against an inexperienced grey knight player, that I have almost never lost against, and when he switched to GK i have to fight tooth and nail for a draw. Some books ARE broken. GK ARE broken.
Stupid. How about two guys with the same level of experience and similar ability levels playing the two codexes against one another? You will find you are wrong. Balance is not in the player, the balance is in the game. Here's how it works: two people have access to the same book. One goes with a themed army with a back story yadda yadda yadda. The other is a cheese dick. The power of those lists is completely different. In WM/H it is very difficult to make a list that does not work.
@ACWbuff so basically you're saying if someone makes a bad list and loses to a good list that means there is no balance?!?!? You should rethink that logic. there is a difference between fun fluff type games and simply playing to win. Again its up to the player. and how boring of a game it must be if it takes little to no thought to make a decent list.
@pkmn94 or the game is so awesome and full of different styles of armies because it all works that it puts 40k to shame for being a piece of crap. I don't see variety as boring... And no, the logic is right in there with what you said...balance is in the game. At that point... it is not the skill of the player. It's the list. Why is the word "gimp" used in 40k to reference units? Why are some units never ever used, and why do some armies have only 2-3 lists that can be run effectively?
@ACWbuff The list still takes part in the game lol. we are talking about the Codex being played by the player. the codex doesn't make the player. I can say a guy whos been playing for 5 years and a guy who just started. the guy who just starts is using a list with all landraiders and the other is playing basic troops with no upgrades. and the new guys win. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
@GamzaTheEternal Need your advice about playing. I've bin player eldar for a while and i've gotten better and better. But I don't really have a competative attitude. Do you believe if you have a competative attitude and the desire to win you mostly will. I'm not saying I don't win at all I do win more then I lose but will delevoping a competative atitude help?
Seems some units in various armies are better balanced. For example in the new Imperial Guard codex you can't beat the cost of a Vendetta with the abilities it has.
@Grendelsbane Exactly. that's what I mean by some choices are easier to make from a codex. but I think having an easier choice doesn't mean its OP and every other codex sucks. ;D
No offense, but this video and your argument is just dumb. Basically you're saying that it's not the codex but the player that makes an army good. Well congrats Sherlock, you're so perceptive. Unfortunately that STILL doesn't turn crappy codex's into good ones. The other thing you conveniently don't talk about is the fact that the game uses dice and winning is partly based on having good dice rolls when you need them. This still doesn't change the fact that 40k rules aren't very good.
Fair point, it realy does come down to the player, as for balance thats just one aspect, some times if things are over balanced they just become different shades of blandness.
I see what you mean... Also I must admit you're right!!
However I thought the tiltle was a bit strong for some people that's maybe why you have some dislikes. Don't mean to captain obvious, I'm only pointing it out.
Given equal skill and given a competitive game, some codex are better than others. So yes, if an experienced player plays against a bad player, the experienced player will likely win. That doesn't mean the codex isn't underpowered.
@Lemt I believe at that point its the army list. two equal players VS each other. 1 list may need tweaking. I admit the necron codex requires a lot more experience but IMO that doesn't constitute it becoming a garbage codex ;D
@GamzaTheEternal concerning Necrons: I think the saying goes that Necrons are an easier army to start playing (due to how few units there are, meaning that you can't go overboard with superfluous options), but one of the most difficult to master (With so few options, you need as much experience and forethought as possible to milk every advantage out of them that you can.).
not allways but some times it is the codex my friend he as won the Throne of Skulls 2 times and he was beat by grey knights by a player how never played a war game befor and my friend dose necrons and he says its the codex as the necrons are to old and grey knights are to good with the new codex and he shoud know as he as played for 15 years in contest games
I just want to say that 40k is not balance at all. I got into gaming thanks to 40k and i think its so cool with fluff and the minis are awesome but the rules not so much. You should try Warmachine/Hordes and you will see what a balance game feels like.
@an00bisRa1 I disagree. Balance is in the player. not in his game. I have seen many people dominate with things considered terrible. I have seen people suck with things called OP.
@GamzaTheEternal "Balance is in the player not his game"??? Really? That is just dumb and is completely untrue. If you understood game design, then you'd know just how false your statement is.
@mtnbiker78 yeah because the codex plays the game and the player means nothing. I mean after all just buy blood angels and you win 100% of your games because the codex does everything.
@pkmn94 That's not what I said. Balance is created in the game design process. Players and dice bring the random variable elements to the game that makes it so that an experienced player playing an "inferior" army list can still beat a newbie. Does that make sense?
@an00bisRa1 I play both and in my opinion there are in balances in warmahordes too. Look at cryx and legion of everblight. They both have so many rules that over rule so many rules in the main rule book.
@anubis418 Really? like what? I just think that once a good piece of your army is gone in 40k then ur pretyt much screw. I said warmachine is so much balance just the fact that you can lose your whole army and still have a chance to win the game.
@an00bisRa1 How about eyeless sight, and blood creation(I play legion so those are the ones i can pull off the top of my head) both of those make things very very easy for legion especially when you are playing with a big forest. you can just walk a warbeast with pathfinder into it and next turn your opponent is gonna have an even harder time killing that thing while you have no change what so ever.
P.S Please work on your grammar I had to read your post three times to understand it.
@anubis418 Please work on your reading comprehension. If you had to read his post 3 times, then obviously the problem lies with you b/c I had no problem understanding what he was saying.
BTW - there's counters to everything in WM/H, which is why the game is so awesome. Unlike 40k.
If Tau go first? Yes. If they go second? They will lose drones, fail morale, and fallback screaming 3 d6 off of the board. They will be in enemy assault range by turn 3 and Tau will die. Take an ethereal! You will fail morale twice, fall back, and die. He will assault, you will lose combat, fail morale, lose initiative, and you will die. If the enemy gets close, Tau will die. Period.
weathforjr 2 weeks ago
so i wish to ask (as an inexperienced player) could a Vet Tau Player beat say... a new Mechanized Imp Guard player? Bearing in kind that they both play-to-win and dont hold back on Cheese
LordDrakeMalice 3 weeks ago
Im just gonna comment on this video, even though I believe it's complete BullShit. I am gonna offend you, Im sorry for doing so, but it's just that you're not only talking non-sense, you're also trying to shove your (rather stupid) opinion into other people's throats. Let me start by sayin I'm a necron player. I used to play with the Old Codex and now I'm playing with the new So, same experience, same knowledge. I'm also playing DeathWing(Dark Angels),Dark Eldar, Blood Angels.
TheAvenger154 1 month ago
@TheAvenger154 So, with the old Codex, I joined a couple of tournies and tried to be as competitive as the codex let me. I was almost always placed arround the last spots. While I did win my friends' Dark eldar or Space Marines sometimes, if you wanna talk competitive, and you do want to, let's just say that 3rd Ed Necrons SUCKED. Yes, it was my only army and I loved them but they sucked! Now, the new 'dex is out and I've won most(if not all) of the games I've played.
TheAvenger154 1 month ago
@TheAvenger154 I got 2nd place in a tourny becase a lucky dark eldar player didnt seem to lose his 2+ invo.. So the same player, with the same experience(Or even less, because the codex now is new) used to win very few friendly games but now can win every competitive game he plays. Now, thats not really up to me, the codex strength has taken effect. There is a damn reason why you would never EVER see Necrons do well in competitive tournies. Because the codex SUCKED.
TheAvenger154 1 month ago
First off, the old necron codex sucks when compared to any 5th edition codex. As someone who runs grey knights and ran necrons for a while with their last codex, I know what I'm talking about.
CSMatherly 1 month ago
@CSMatherly You´re just so ridiculously wrong i dont think you even had your brain activated when writing this. I know a GK and a nec player, they are brothers and both really good (the GK just annihilated me a couple of weeks ago with his muzza fuzza stormraven with the paladins in it) but still the nec player has only lost once so far and they play often. Experience counts and thats all and hes the more experienced one.
Buemmo 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@Buemmo When a codex suffers like the necron codex suffered, what I said is completely reasonable and legitimate. The necrons didn't get an update for 9 years. I'm not denying that experience matters but this cosplay faggot who made the vid is acting like its a piece of cake to beat the GK codex with the old cron codex. It's difficult to beat any 5th edition codex with a 3rd edition codex, especially when they have a fucking 9 year difference. Yeah, my brain was turned on asshole. stfu,
CSMatherly 1 month ago
@CSMatherly ummm.... first of all wth is your problem with cosplay? And no. its never a piece of cake to beat someone when he/she/it is using the least little amount of brain (or more) but still the necrons were a good and are powerful codex. Knowledge and experience counts always more than having a "new codex" GK are not OP or "better". they simply are very expensive and so every single model is good too.
Buemmo 1 month ago
@Buemmo Cosplay is for faggots (and I don't mean gay ppl, gay ppl are fine, I mean ppl who are generally disliked). Here's why the necron codex was NOT viable in 5th edition. Necrons had one very pricy troop choice which you could only take in a squad of 10. Our 1 HQ, a necron lord, came with mostly overpriced and shitty wargear options. Veil of darkness and rez orbs were the only useful things and they were FAR too expensive. Necrons had no transport vehicles so you had to walk up the
CSMatherly 4 weeks ago
@Buemmo cont
field attempting to get in range with your rapid fire weapons. Good luck! to get them up the field you'll also need 1-2 monoliths to teleport them into fire range and out of CC where they will die (provided they didnt get sweeping advanced in the previous turn) If you lose your monoliths, you've lost. that's 470 points off the field and your scattered warriors will just get ripped apart. Almost all the fast attack and elite options were overpriced for what they had to offer.
CSMatherly 4 weeks ago
I'd have to say that most codices suck... because they just encourage people to spam a particular unit or certain wargear. It might help make games go quicker, but it also makes them uninterestong...
I've also recently discovered that I can almost play something similar to my usual Marine list, for less points, and in my opinion, better abilities, using the SW codex. I don't get to use the same special characters... but a good codex should not rely on them anyway.
ArynCrinn 1 month ago
@ArynCrinn I agree with this. I've only played one or 2 games, at best. From what I've seen in battle reports, from people talking, and just generally from me flipping through my own books people are encouraged to spam a certain kind of unit, with a certain kind of upgrade. Take Hive Guard, for example. Guard armies are encouraged to spam tanks, which I find really, really boring. Wolves spam Long Fangs and Blood Angels spam tons of priests. Point is, it's the codex, not the player.
Necronlord101 1 month ago
@Necronlord101
Yeah... Hive Guard do not belong... BS4, S8 weapons that do not need line of sight?
Where's all the human hordes these days? How often do you see full infantry platoons?
A squad of Long fangs can take 5 missile launchers for 10 points less than a regular marine devastator squad with only 4.
Blood Angels can have 9 sang priests, giving FNP and FC to units withing 6"... vanilla marines can take 2 apothecaries, whoe only give FNP to the unit they are in...
ArynCrinn 1 month ago
@ArynCrinn Hey, I don't know Tyranids that well. All I know is people talk about using Hive Guard alot, and I seem to see them in every nid list. I remember people saying that it's one of the few viable elite choices for Tyranids. Not sure if that's true, just saying it's what I've heard. Another thing that comes to mind is Chaos Marines. Every army is basically plague marines/2 princes with lash and obliterators. GW needs to make ALL army options viable. I'd love to see an IG spam.
Necronlord101 1 month ago
@Necronlord101 So true about the chaos marines... I do see the occasional terminator or Khorne berzerker as well, but I can't say I've seen many people using regular chaos marines, noise marines, or thousand sons... and Greater Daemons? How often do you see anyone use them?
All options should be viable. What good is a bunch of choices, when half of them are useless/overpriced?
ArynCrinn 1 month ago
Your logic is flawed. The Grey Knight Codex is so strong, it allows a brand new player to compete with veteran players using lower tier codexes. I have witnessed this myself several times. All Codexes are not on an equal power level, and it is naive and foolish to believe they are. I have 15 years of wargaming experience and have been playing 40K since 3rd edition. I can tell you right now, the Grey Knight Codex is overpowered.
skywise07 1 month ago
@skywise07 I've witness this senario at my game club 3rd edition necrons vs grey knights and the necron player won because his tatics were way better the grey knight player got slaughterd so he is right.
Link12ize 1 month ago
hey, between Space Wolves and Blood Angels, who were better at close combat?
theraynor1995 1 month ago
@theraynor1995 Nearly all Blood Angels can get furious charge...by either getting Red Thirst or having a sang priest. Death Company have WS5 and 2 attacks on their profile. Death Company and Furioso dreadnoughts can be pretty scary... Blood angels can take assault marines as troops, and can have cheaper assault terminators.
Space wolves have counter attack, which doesn't really encourage you to assault the enemy, and doesn't grant the +1 I and +1 S.
ArynCrinn 1 month ago
I like playing Space Marines. No BA, no SW, no GK. Just Space Marines. Why? Chronus, Tellion, Vulkan, MotF with Conversion beamer.... That codex is full of characters with great abilities and lots of interesting chapter tactics
Buemmo 2 months ago
I like the topic, lets keep 5th Ed. around, at least a couple years after the last 5ed codex... I mean, are they going to release a new Ed. with the last codex for 5th...???
I can see where an old dex might have some disadvantages, It's all up to a player, making a list, playing well with said list, not rolling horribly, and having fun...LOL but now there's a new Dex for crons too. who doesn't have a 5th Ed. codex yet?
axelsfolks 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Best video about 40k ever. Well played sir... subscribed!
theblessing8386 2 months ago
With that being said, I agree with the end of your argument. Players should first look to themselves and improve themselves before blaming outside factors, as they themselves are the easiest problem to rectify.
Unlike what you said, however, I do think that there are inherently easier to play and downright more efficient codices in the game simply because it is devised and implemented as a system of arbitrarily valued points by people, who will always make mistakes.
kingensai 2 months ago
@kingensai Absolutely. I believe some codices are easier than others but I don't connect that with being either over powered or simply better. Often times if a codex is easier it simply lays out the choices for you. for instance space wolves. why would you choose a predator over longfangs? the choice is basically laid out for the player. and people get mad when they see choices like that getting spammed and they cry "OP!"
GamzaTheChaosSoldier 2 months ago
@kingensai and also this wasn't suppose to be a full breakdown of how we win in 40k it was a message to cry babies ;D
GamzaTheChaosSoldier 2 months ago
@GamzaTheChaosSoldier Fair enough. I still think that the gaming savages require at least a rudimentary summary of what is required to win so that somewhere in the back of their uncivilized brains, there lays the notion of what is required to succeed.
kingensai 2 months ago
I think the message you put across here is WAY too simplistic. Victory in 40k is determined by 5 factors: Codex, List, Skill, Environment, and Luck. You are putting forth that Skill is the only determining factor in outcome of games. This is only true in games where there is no luck factor and no player choice in playing piece composition. In the game of 40k, Skill is probably the most important, but it is not the only factor. If skill is equal, then the other factors magnify in importance.
kingensai 2 months ago
How who would Win, necrons or Grey Knights
Bldbrrg 2 months ago
You forget the dark angels, vs anything we lose... always....in teh name of teh emprah!
CodGlitches2011x 3 months ago
I agree. I, a chaos daemons player, fight to a draw against grey knights multiple times, and he uses those tournament level henchman/purifier lists. He's also way more experienced in 40k than I am. He's like a 8 or 9 year college student. I'm a 16 year old with maybe 3 years of exp.
Maybe it's just the randomness of my army throwing him off, but if codexs are the main deciding factor, than me, a CSM/Daemons player, should be getting drilled in the majority of the games I play.
AJweathersby 3 months ago
TOTALLY AGREE.
Atrodad 3 months ago
Your totaly wrong if the old necrons face of Geert knigits the necrons would lose so bad. Just look at mike from miniwargaming video of necron tactica the only tactic of necrons is get lots and lots of necron warriors and thats it the Greey knights have many more kinds of Units so theye can take something to kill the lord and no we Will be back rolls for the necrons
ogedogedino 3 months ago
@ogedogedino ork tactics is lots o boyz you saying thats bad
SovietSquirel 3 months ago
And he grew to dislike "The Railgun Death sentence", 9 Broadsides, with lots of meatshields (kroot) protecting them. I didn't play for objectives, so much as I picked one of his units and made it die-removing their cover saves, so all his wolfguard had were their Crux save.
We don't speak of the Apocalypse game where I used my Chaos AND my Tau against his Space Wolves (5th) and Eldar-indeed we don't speak of Apocalypse EVER since. His armies were saying "Oh what a lovely tea party" after that
toadBob 3 months ago
But the idea is that the Grey Knight player would have access to Spamable units that are quite good. With proper unit construction, you could completely negate any chance of a counterattack by an enemy. Grey Knight shooting is...sickeningly effective.
The guy who taught me was an experienced Space Wolf player, his army was built for 3rd-4th edition. I went online and read up about Tau 5th edition tactics and army list building...and stomped his ass. Repeatedly. He stopped taking dreds.
toadBob 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I wish everyone who plays 40k would watch this video.
eMoneyACIDPISS 3 months ago
Brilliant vid, considering subscribing.
Oliver200101 4 months ago
I guess some questions can be answered when the new Necron Codex comes out Later this week/start of next week.
As a codec connoisseur I have to add another layer to that arguement. It's not only about how long you've played with a codex, every time I get a new codex I end up playing better than the last one. Another factor is codex tactics vs your own preference. If close combat is your ideal army and you pick up Tau, how many games do you think you will win? On the other hand you pick up Or
UberMangaka 4 months ago
And the comparisons to the Space Marine codex and the Chapter Codex's are rather moot. The Space Marine Codex is the ideal codex for players whose play styles aren't relative to Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Black Templars, etc.
Players tend to choose the Chapter Codex' over the Space Marine Codex for the specific play style.
Your argument is rather half stilted because experienced players know that old codex' aren't written for 5th edition and thus have serious weaknesses in 5th edition.
TheNoirMirror 4 months ago
That's a pretty ambiguous statement. The Necron players have a harder time than the Grey Knights because their codex was not written for 5th edition or with 5th edition jargon.
The same thing with Tau. After 5th edition released, codexes tailored for 5th edition had cheaper transports or options because 5th edition favors transport heavy armies, however, the Tau codex was written for 4th edition, which not only still talks about priority checks, but their transports are 60% more expensive.
TheNoirMirror 4 months ago
I do agree with the main argument of this video, you shouldn't think you're going to win your games with the shiny bits that the newer codexes dangle in front of you, and experience and strategy are going to be the better tools in a match. That and a good dice throw.
wikieditspam 4 months ago
I don't really think that Blood Angels really can do everything that Space Marines can do, and I haven't really heard anyone boasting about it either. They are absolutely not as versatile as them, you can't really use any sort of trickery allowing you to field elites as troops, or have entirely bike mounted armies. You can however have a very fast one, with a few gizmos and oddities that will sometimes make your opponent bang his head on the wall the first time he plays against them.
wikieditspam 4 months ago
Let me start by saying that I love ur videos. I like using ur tactics, watching ur battle reports, and snagging ideas from your painting vids. Having said that, Im afraid that i do not agree 100%. while u absolutely need to have skill, smarts, and experience with 40k, lets face it; some armies just have it tougher. A perfect example is the tau. This army is much harder to win with if u have a more modern and updated codex. since this army is all about shooting, dont you think that BS 4 is better
darnpotato 4 months ago
Fair vid, but I do disagree. Part of it is down to the player skill but some codex's are much stronger than others.
EryxUK 4 months ago
I use to be the worst of my friends at the game and would always loose, but I spent time working on my list and developing my strategies and I'm unstoppable!
Whether I'm playing Imperial Guard (personal favorite), Grey Knights, Space Marines, or Dark Angels I normally win.
LordCHull 4 months ago
Mm... you're both right and wrong.
For a long time, I was able to get good results out of the old 3rd edition Ork Codex: other people usually had newer Codices than me, but my finely-honed Waaagh was usually able to defeat them through experience.
When the current Ork Codex was released, all of a sudden I found myself able to field all of my Boyz and still have points left for big guns. Using them just ceased to be a challenge- a major reason behind why I mostly use Renegade Guard these days
Stheno16 5 months ago
ok lets say two 8 year players go head to head one has necrons and one has grey knights ...... who would win
guardsmen1814 5 months ago
@guardsmen1814 who ever constructed the best list. ot who ever rolls nothing but 6s lolololol
GamzaTheEternal 5 months ago 2
@guardsmen1814 boring
ChiliSinCarneBruder 3 months ago
its not the players its the dice XD
BluePit864 5 months ago
So what is your response to the Grey Knights being overpowered?
dragonstormx 5 months ago
@dragonstormx Not true they have one major weakness! They can be overrun really easily! Playing against my friends Nids is a challenge cause I don't have the disposable troops. I have to make every move carefully.
LordCHull 4 months ago
@LordCHull
I've looked at the Grey Knights codex it sounds like one of the worst things the Nids can go against because of their heavy weapons. In fact I've that amongst competitive lists, the only armies that can consistently beat them are Dark Eldar spamming poison and dark lances, Space Marines spamming assault cannons, and Tau spamming rail guns.
dragonstormx 4 months ago
To be honest with you, Gray knights most of the time would destroy Necrons. All those force weapons, denial of invuls and what not.. Necrons do need an update. Also Vanilla marines simply aren't as good because the specialized chapters DO tend to do better. Look at all the best lists. None of them are Necrons or vanilla. Just saying.
WazcallyWabbit 5 months ago
While I understand your statement, it is flawed. It is like saying that Lance Armstrong on his bike could beat an porche driver with 1 year experience on the indy 500 track, because it is not the vehicle (bicycle vs porche), but the driver.
I do agree, however, that any good player playing any codex, can take advantage of errors in the opponent's play. And that speaks to the player ability.
But, if no mistakes are made, the game will go to the better codex.
Rlyehable 5 months ago
@Rlyehable No at that point you're saying the codex will carry the person. I am simply saying that even after skills are matched the army list they built takes into effect. but before that the players experience takes priority. two equal matched players maybe one decided to risk taking 3 units of terminators and fails at taking a game winning objective at this point his army list failed him not just his play skills and or codex.
GamzaTheEternal 5 months ago
hmm hard to say...but i think that you are wrong in one way. Yes none codex sux, indeed, but some codexes are harder to play...and some more depends on luck....its difference....but that makes armyes diffferent with own style and differente fell to play for them....i played SM and them Witch hunters-AS ....AS codex is harder to do usefull play, when you try AS as SM it will work but you will still play with poor version of SM=sux....SO ..none codex sux....but some are harder:) And-DICE is bith
Mishai87 5 months ago
I can both agree and disagree with this. For the agreement: yeah... I was a new player, playing Marines and Imperial Guard, who got regularly stomped by veterans playing 3rd edition Necrons and Dark Eldar. Experience does play a HUGE role in the game. On the disagreement, I think that newer codices give players more options to play with, and an already-experienced player will become even deadlier with a newer codex. Experience, though, definitely remains the most important factor.
Gelugladius 5 months ago
anyone who plays grey knights sucks and has no testiciles
berzerkerspam 6 months ago
I definitely disagree. I do get where you are coming from. But.... When 1 codex has something pretty much the same as another codex for half the point cost, the new book wins. I have personally played against an inexperienced grey knight player, that I have almost never lost against, and when he switched to GK i have to fight tooth and nail for a draw. Some books ARE broken. GK ARE broken.
templersstorms 6 months ago
@templersstorms lol Games Day France was supposed to change that ! OH LOOK ... IT DIDN'T .... lol
oXWhiteScarsXo 6 months ago
it's not a matter of how long you play it's how you play
lordrevan571 6 months ago
if the experience is the same then the necrons would lose
Greendawnify 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You should check out my battle reports.
makooma 6 months ago
great vid gamza! Finally someone who is not constantly bashing on 40k all the time :)
Angels40k 6 months ago
Stupid. How about two guys with the same level of experience and similar ability levels playing the two codexes against one another? You will find you are wrong. Balance is not in the player, the balance is in the game. Here's how it works: two people have access to the same book. One goes with a themed army with a back story yadda yadda yadda. The other is a cheese dick. The power of those lists is completely different. In WM/H it is very difficult to make a list that does not work.
ACWbuff 6 months ago 3
@ACWbuff so basically you're saying if someone makes a bad list and loses to a good list that means there is no balance?!?!? You should rethink that logic. there is a difference between fun fluff type games and simply playing to win. Again its up to the player. and how boring of a game it must be if it takes little to no thought to make a decent list.
pkmn94 6 months ago
@pkmn94 or the game is so awesome and full of different styles of armies because it all works that it puts 40k to shame for being a piece of crap. I don't see variety as boring... And no, the logic is right in there with what you said...balance is in the game. At that point... it is not the skill of the player. It's the list. Why is the word "gimp" used in 40k to reference units? Why are some units never ever used, and why do some armies have only 2-3 lists that can be run effectively?
ACWbuff 6 months ago
@ACWbuff The list still takes part in the game lol. we are talking about the Codex being played by the player. the codex doesn't make the player. I can say a guy whos been playing for 5 years and a guy who just started. the guy who just starts is using a list with all landraiders and the other is playing basic troops with no upgrades. and the new guys win. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
GamzaTheEternal 5 months ago
@GamzaTheEternal it doesn't matter who is more experienced, all that matters is if the dice gods is on your side
MeisterReaper 2 months ago
@GamzaTheEternal Need your advice about playing. I've bin player eldar for a while and i've gotten better and better. But I don't really have a competative attitude. Do you believe if you have a competative attitude and the desire to win you mostly will. I'm not saying I don't win at all I do win more then I lose but will delevoping a competative atitude help?
Link12ize 3 weeks ago
Seems some units in various armies are better balanced. For example in the new Imperial Guard codex you can't beat the cost of a Vendetta with the abilities it has.
Grendelsbane 6 months ago
@Grendelsbane Exactly. that's what I mean by some choices are easier to make from a codex. but I think having an easier choice doesn't mean its OP and every other codex sucks. ;D
GamzaTheEternal 6 months ago
No offense, but this video and your argument is just dumb. Basically you're saying that it's not the codex but the player that makes an army good. Well congrats Sherlock, you're so perceptive. Unfortunately that STILL doesn't turn crappy codex's into good ones. The other thing you conveniently don't talk about is the fact that the game uses dice and winning is partly based on having good dice rolls when you need them. This still doesn't change the fact that 40k rules aren't very good.
mtnbiker78 6 months ago
Fair point, it realy does come down to the player, as for balance thats just one aspect, some times if things are over balanced they just become different shades of blandness.
chancerNW 6 months ago
notice your hand at 3:10 makes a gun, and high-five good sir
valiantred4 6 months ago
Always great to see another proud user of Codex Space Marines, I agree with your point that it allows for more variety
777rick777 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I see what you mean... Also I must admit you're right!!
However I thought the tiltle was a bit strong for some people that's maybe why you have some dislikes. Don't mean to captain obvious, I'm only pointing it out.
JudoonScanner 6 months ago
its more about matchups and luck than player skills. if you want a real game play warmachine.
TrippleH655321 6 months ago
Given equal skill and given a competitive game, some codex are better than others. So yes, if an experienced player plays against a bad player, the experienced player will likely win. That doesn't mean the codex isn't underpowered.
Lemt 6 months ago
@Lemt I believe at that point its the army list. two equal players VS each other. 1 list may need tweaking. I admit the necron codex requires a lot more experience but IMO that doesn't constitute it becoming a garbage codex ;D
GamzaTheEternal 6 months ago
@GamzaTheEternal concerning Necrons: I think the saying goes that Necrons are an easier army to start playing (due to how few units there are, meaning that you can't go overboard with superfluous options), but one of the most difficult to master (With so few options, you need as much experience and forethought as possible to milk every advantage out of them that you can.).
Gelugladius 5 months ago
Pretty much eery 10th second of this vid makes me want to troll-rage, but I have to agree to that it's about the player.
Maybe it's 10% luck, 20% codex and the last is 70% tactica, plans, experience.
magmanenis 6 months ago
Totally agree
azzTwild 6 months ago
I see what you mean... Also I must admit you're right!!
JudoonScanner 6 months ago
not allways but some times it is the codex my friend he as won the Throne of Skulls 2 times and he was beat by grey knights by a player how never played a war game befor and my friend dose necrons and he says its the codex as the necrons are to old and grey knights are to good with the new codex and he shoud know as he as played for 15 years in contest games
3000whitedragon 6 months ago
I stopped buying warhammer because of the cost, I play D&D now XD
Liamwitz 6 months ago
I just want to say that 40k is not balance at all. I got into gaming thanks to 40k and i think its so cool with fluff and the minis are awesome but the rules not so much. You should try Warmachine/Hordes and you will see what a balance game feels like.
an00bisRa1 6 months ago
@an00bisRa1 I disagree. Balance is in the player. not in his game. I have seen many people dominate with things considered terrible. I have seen people suck with things called OP.
GamzaTheEternal 6 months ago 9
@GamzaTheEternal "Balance is in the player not his game"??? Really? That is just dumb and is completely untrue. If you understood game design, then you'd know just how false your statement is.
mtnbiker78 6 months ago
@mtnbiker78 yeah because the codex plays the game and the player means nothing. I mean after all just buy blood angels and you win 100% of your games because the codex does everything.
pkmn94 6 months ago
@pkmn94 That's not what I said. Balance is created in the game design process. Players and dice bring the random variable elements to the game that makes it so that an experienced player playing an "inferior" army list can still beat a newbie. Does that make sense?
mtnbiker78 6 months ago
@an00bisRa1 I play both and in my opinion there are in balances in warmahordes too. Look at cryx and legion of everblight. They both have so many rules that over rule so many rules in the main rule book.
anubis418 6 months ago
@anubis418 Really? like what? I just think that once a good piece of your army is gone in 40k then ur pretyt much screw. I said warmachine is so much balance just the fact that you can lose your whole army and still have a chance to win the game.
an00bisRa1 6 months ago
@an00bisRa1 How about eyeless sight, and blood creation(I play legion so those are the ones i can pull off the top of my head) both of those make things very very easy for legion especially when you are playing with a big forest. you can just walk a warbeast with pathfinder into it and next turn your opponent is gonna have an even harder time killing that thing while you have no change what so ever.
P.S Please work on your grammar I had to read your post three times to understand it.
anubis418 6 months ago
@anubis418 Please work on your reading comprehension. If you had to read his post 3 times, then obviously the problem lies with you b/c I had no problem understanding what he was saying.
BTW - there's counters to everything in WM/H, which is why the game is so awesome. Unlike 40k.
mtnbiker78 6 months ago