Dangerous Landing in a Luscombe

[DougDaCosta]

I used to fly into Flabob decades ago when it was still a dirt strip. They had an old restraurant there with good food. That Luscombe pilot did a good landing in that strong gusting CrossWind condition. Flown one a couple of times just out of curiosity.

[A65Driver]

The Luscombe is actually a pussycat, and a real pleasure to fly. The issue with the landing gear is that it is narrow, combined with a long wingspan and short coupling; the gear legs will not withstand excessive side loading (the gear legs are actually designed to crumple first, to protect the much more expensive gear box). What this means is the plane does not tolerate sloppy landing technique - on touchdown the nose needs to be pointing straight down the runway and with no side drift movement.

[michaelpilot1000]

Ex tail wheel pilot here..over 40 yrs worth. Fact, Luscombe always had a bad reputation for poor landing gear, cross wind landings. Beautiful airplanes, but,,the gear is a prob. Luscombe also had a form of Training Wheels . That is, a devise that moved the front wheel base forward and many pilots during training would flip the aircraft forward onto its back.

[pkitfox]

The pilot was flying the airplane throughout the landing. I did not see anything scary about it. We can argue about 3 point vs wheel landings, but I think this is an example of good piloting.

[SenorSpode]

Knock-knock...apple. Knock-knock...apple. Knock-knock....orange...orange you glad I didn't say apple?

[TheTodd2u]

This must be a very forgiving plane to take that and not ground loop. I think a wheel landing would have been the way to go on that one. Who am I to judge though.

[abrady242]

haha ironically enough the USAF theme song is playing in the background

[ppunterFlightsimdude]

He should have been going the minimum stall speed plus the speed of the cross wind

[minenu11]

Given the conditions and a Luscombe I think that's pretty good work!

[DougDaCosta]

The bottom dropped out, but the pilot did a damned good job of catching it. My technique for landing a Luscombe in a strong X-wind is to first get it on the ground. Before you run out of rudder control, make sure both wheels are on the ground in case you have to drag the downwind brake to keep from ground looping into the wind. Flabob is a neat little airport. I used to fly there in a Cessna 140 to eat at the old restaurant, when it was still a grass strip.

[hoggdawn]

In all honesty, this 'cumbe was landing on nothing more than a wing and a prayer.

[pathyskeeter]

Luscombe is awesome to land with a crosswind. I've seen it consistantly being done with a 23 kt 90 degree crosswind...yet never coming close to using full rudder. Gusting winds are challenging for any airplane, especially with a light wing loading. The Cub is a great example of that. It feels every gust, no matter how small. Yet, the Luscombe has a higher wing loading and a low vertical and fuselage area, which is beautiful for crosswind ops. The adverse yaw helps a lot, too.

[lilkiller63]

its like a helicopter

[aztaclalz]

Ok, give me your damn apple, throw some of that orange this way - Just shut...the hell up. Who ever gave the guy a microphone anyway?

[A65Driver]

On a windy day like that, direct crosswind, a power on wheel landing might be the better choice. Or go find a runway more aligned with the wind. Luscombe isn't difficult to land, plenty of rudder authority for crosswind landings, but lightly loaded and unforgiving in difficult conditions.

[OzParkPilot]

good job with his feet !! Just check out the trees on final ! BIG WIND !!! BIG PROBS !

[SenorSpode]

Semi-gusty day, different layers of winds at different altitudes, not to mention channeled in different areas. Even a Cessna 150/152 would've done that.

[JoeEndo]

That is Flabob Airport in sourthern CA and by the looks of it, it looks like it's a Santa Ana wind event. During Santa Ana's the wind comes across the runway at a right angle.

Second, the plane is a taildragger, and from what I have seen they appear to be harder to land with a strong cross wind though I do not know this as I am only a student pilot and have never been in a taildrager.

I would have gone to Riverside Municipal and landed on runway 34. Close call for sure, but total skill.

[hulltwins]

I agree with several, could have ended nasty but got lucky this time. My Dad had Luscombe for years with skis too, absolutely amazing plane in all weather.

[sifreak91]

i got to see this when it happened.....first off, this was one of the few planes that actually landed in the wind......most gave up after a few failed attempts. I also know the pilot, John Dearden and have flown in this exact aircraft. It performs beautifully.....even when at (or over) gross weight.

[deepblue1980]

My 2th comment was a response to a question .. but my first one is my point of view.

[deepblue1980]

Wath i see is very interresting : First, these aproach was very slow, close to the stalling point. But the winds are not constant. That's the mistake. Just over the runway, the winds stopped, ans then .. the plane loosed his lift.

On a cross-wind approach, better to do it with a little more speed just in case where the wind stop.

[chiccoka]

or the stall speed reached ?what do u think.

What u r saying its good for nose wind.and tail wind also

[scv405]

Absolutely no way to tell how close it was to the stall. All we know is the groundspeed was low. Wind stopped? How do you know that!

Strong crosswind, less than perfect technique, that's all. Maybe he ran out of rudder, in which case it's better to go land elsewhere.

[loopyloop2loop]

Stuff happens.. tailwheel strikes first, which then bounces upward, reducing the angle of attack which makes the wing get more lift, so the plane rises and flies but there isn't enough thrust so the plane goes back down and bounce. Better option would have been cross-control with slight power, left wing downward or simply go around 9either to try again or fly for 15m to see if the wind changes) or to another airport. Still a nice albeit lucky save...

[scv405]

reducing angle of attack makes LESS lift, not more.

[greenfruitface]

The pilot did a fine job. Yes, the tailwheel touched first momentarily, but oh well...it happens sometimes in conditions like this. It is obviously windy and probably warm. Check out what he'd dealing with on final- wind, updrafts, etc. It's a very small, light airplane- it's going to be a handful either way. Also, keep in mind he's landing a Luscombe on pavement....that says a lot for his/her skill level right there. Good job.

[YakAV8R]

Tailwheel 1st @ 00:40..not pretty. LW tip dangerously close to striking runway. Poor judgement. Did not cost anything..this time.

[YakAV8R]

ahhhh...no.

[airspeed629]

that was nuts, i would not fly with that pilot. that scared me and i was watching it on you tube

[nmbnutz]

Practice makes perfect,we all learn from mistakes!! Love the plane btw !!!

[TinselKoala]

Whoops! Makes my little heart go Pitty-pat.

Myself, I'd druther keep on an extra knot or two of airspeed, and might ought to better do a wheel landing in that gusty kinda crossywind. Yep, hell of a pilot. Lucky, too. That was about a microsecond from a bent Luscombe.

[GeneralSirDouglasMcA]

That took a hell of a pilot to land in wind like that. I'll bet he was sweatin' bullets! (I'm a student pilot, and I have a tough time with a crosswind of just 5 kts., AND I'm not in a taildragger).

[Zachey2001]

You have a point. Flying conventional gear in this kind of wind shear is no small feat.

[pathyskeeter]

Thank goodness for adding 20 kts gust factor!!!!!!

[pathyskeeter]

wow guys! I didn't realize that it takes both good skill AND good judgement to fly, at least in taildraggers. I think that's what you guys are hinting at. 67K, are you suggesting that 172s are best served at airports with International-sized runways?! The 172's here almost go off the end of our 3100' runway here in Southern California. Maybe it's a California thing. In fact, the Citations and King Airs turn off at the same taxiway intersection that the 172s touch down at.

[fairchildbrad]

It must be a California thing. You don't need more than 1000' max to land a C-172. I routinely do it in less than 700' and could do it in about 500' without a problem. I have never seen a 172 use 300' when they didn't want to (ie. to turn off at a taxiway that minimizes taxi time)

[skooter2767k]

You must have been taught how to properly fly and not be scared of flying the airplane at normal approach speeds!! Nice! Why can't other pilots figure that out!!

[skooter2767k]

I saw a Zenith 601 bite it HARD and get the prop and nose wheel on a 5000' runway with No wind, and a Piper Warrior do a full turn GROUNDLOOP!! I've landed my Luscombe 8E in a 25kt direct crosswind with no problems, and not anywhere near full aileron or rudder deflection either!! Luscombes are awsome!! I can land the Lear 25 I fly shorter than most of our flying club pilots can land their 172!! I swear the 172 lands hotter than the Learjet does.LOL!! :)

[DW96D]

LOL! Nice landing. I agree with pathy. Flabob is great... on days the wind is from the east it is less than forgiving! As for tail wheel vs nose wheel I have seen on the same day at Flabob a nose wheel aircraft have a prop strike and a Edge 540 make perfect landing... Only difference is the pilot. Tail wheel airplanes demand you to be a good aviator... Nose wheel will cover lack of airmanship until your in a bad situation.

[pathyskeeter]

By the way, I have seen way more landing and takeoff accidents with tricycle gear airplanes than with taildraggers.

[pathyskeeter]

Nice to see that there's actually a Luscombe pilot/owner adding input here! I have flown at Flabob several times in inferior aircraft ie tricycle gear airplanes. I do occasionally fly a 8E. Very nice airplane. Right now, though, I'm only current in a 170B, a Legend Cub, and a Great Lakes. the wind at Flabob is constantly changing. Watch how many times the wind changes in the vid. ANY airplane is hard to land in gusty changing wind. I do think he was a little slow.

[SenorSpode]

I still love this video, the audio makes the experience very surreal...in a complementive way.

[tangokl]

Iis there seriously a Flabob airport? is that a town somewhere?

[scubakobe]

Flabob Airport is in Rubidoux, California.Next door to Riverside.

[iflyc77]

that was exciting. =]

[pahoskins]

I owned a 1946 Luscombe for several years and flew it a couple of hundred hours. It was no harder to land than a Chief I had previously. Like all conventional aircraft, you don't get off the rudder, though, until it is tied down !

In my opinion,the lack of dihedral made it a less forgiving but more exciting "sports plane" .

[keeevan]

so much for ground effect, and yea looked alittle slow, approach speed should have been increased due to the gust factor

[SenorSpode]

I went ahead and talked with my dad and some other old salts on the Luscombe situation. They all agreed that the Luscombe is very tricky to land in even a moderate crosswind. One of them took his daughter's Luscombe one day long ago and landed in a similar crosswind: He ended up flipping it over, totalled. They got it off the runway, he went home and wrote his daughter a check for the plane, simple as that, admitting all guilt and shame.

[scubakobe]

I've talked to a 757 captain who also owns a Luscombe and he contradicts that.

It's more due to the limitations of the pilot.

A Cessna is a very tricky plane to land in crosswinds if you've never done it before.

[SenorSpode]

The pilot may have had a tricky landing, but he recovered very well, all things considered. And taildraggers have always been trickier to land than nose-gears anyway, ever since nose-gears were around to give a basis for comparison. I can respect your opinion, but I'll side with my crew here.

[SenorSpode]

Okay, I found out the reason why you hear 'Apple' all the time. You also hear Gwyneth Paltrow's name used, too...that is because the comedian is talking about Gwyneth Paltrow naming her tiny (2-3?) daughter 'Apple' at birth. 'Apple Paltrow'. There ya have it.

[scubakobe]

i actually didnt know that.. good research lol

[SenorSpode]

Is that John "Dr. Dirty" Valby in the background???

[scubakobe]

It's been over a year, I don't know

[SenorSpode]

A pullback and a burst of power straightens it out, then settle back down. Good recovery.

In 1979 my dad and I took a TriPacer out for a spin. If you're familiar with 'em, TriPacers have a short wingspan and fat wing. Coming in on a cool summer evening we got over the fence, but a tad too slow. We fell out of the air at 20 feet and hit hard. No damage, but if you get behind the idiosyncratic curve of any plane, it will wake you up. Or put you to sleep. We lucked out.

[hqbeamer]

why was someone shouting random fruit names?

[ishldknwbttr]

lol..

[SenorSpode]

Kumquat! Persimmon! Jicama! Pomegranate! Avocado! Prickly pear! Passionfruit! BANANA!!!!!

BTW, that *was* a rather treacherous landing.

WATERMELON!

[SenorSpode]

@hqbeamer Ya gotta admit, that's what makes it memorable.

[aetio2]

WOW!! very good pilot....there was heavy crosswind and his manoeuvre was correct....

ezio

[Ubertone]

High side loads on the Luscombe landing gear can cause structural failure and major expense. This one appears to have the optional heavy-duty "Silflex" gear, which is quite robust I'm told, but if whacked sideways with enough force will cause especially expensive structural damage if busted loose. The original-design gear tends to break free easier; ergo, without tearing up the structural components of the lower fuselage... so I've been told. Haven't proven it with my orig. L.G. '47 Lusc. 8E.

[Ubertone]

I wouldn't have been surprised to see an ugly main gear collapse here if it were equipped with the original gear. However, the heavier Silflex gear made such a poor touchdown salvageable. How much worse can you go before causing the robust Silflex gear to fail with very serious consequences to the airplane's repair prognosis is the unanswered question. These wonderful airplanes are all in their 60's now and not likely to ever be manufactured again.

[skooter2767k]

This is in fact a brand new Luscombe. They are being built in Riverside CA and available as a o-200 powered light sport, Rotec radial powered light sport, and 160hp Lycoming powered 8F models. The Luscombe is a very robust airplane, capeable of handleing an occasional rough landing!

[gencobaser]

anyone of you seen that object when the video start abd you can see it and the first 15 or 10 seconds , if you want tosee it puase it at when the video starts and check the top of the vid i see something what is it a UFO lol

[Jo1ntSF]

Considering this is a video of an airplane landing at an airport during what seems to be an airshow, i highly doubt it was another aircraft in the landing pattern. I think it was an alien spacecraft.

[gencobaser]

no i was wondering what was that i just gave UFO to make a little joke

[eclipseairforce]

OMG at first I thought it was an RC plane. nice. :)

[stearman81n]

I don't see anything wrong with it, given the a/c type & conditions. It just got a little hairy like it always does at the last second.

[flchange]

I don´t know that much about taildraggers, but pause the vid at 0:39/40 and tell me if what u see is what u would call "nothing wrong" I see a wingtip veeery close to the ground, an attitude inappropriate for the landing phase, and in a crab. Don´t those things justify a GO AROUND ?!

[stearman81n]

Depends on the level of confidence with the plane & conditions. I agree, a go around might have been warranted. I've had to repair the occasional wingtip from landing in such conditions myself. My comment begins with "I don't see"... that's an opinion. I respect yours as well. I think he did a good job not to groundloop, or worse.

[flchange]

sure, no problem. Mine is an opinion as well and I definitely respect yours. But I do see something wrong with the way the plane was maneuvered. It was allowed to reach a critical attitude (both pitch and bank) that close to the ground. He did "fix" it, but he may not always achieve the same results under similar circumstances. Good discussing these issues with educated people like u. Regards.

[stearman81n]

The Luscombe is a weird bird. High CG and narrow gear. Crosswind technique would be to tack on a little more speed, keep wing low into the crosswind and keep it straight with the rudder, flaring with the wing low. Looks like he may have been a little slow and the gust caught him at just the wrong moment, in ground effect. Obviously skilled with the Luscombe to get it straightened out after such a clam of a landing. Most folks would have been off into the grass at least. Good subject. Regards.

[tailwheelflier]

yea,,i thought he was a little slow as well,,,especially in such gusty conditions. With all that runway avaliable,,,,and still drag it in with winds like that,,,,I've seen terrible pilots nail good landings with nothing other than luck,,,

[loserwew]

haha.. he does say apple....

im a trainee pilot..i land in an airport like that everyday....

[mendoza332]

wow that pilot is good to do that evan tho he hit cross winds

[GeneralSirDouglasMcA]

Good piloting there. Foolish, but good.

[PlanesForLife]

Does the guy on the telecom keep saying "apple"

[admiralnomad]

What a ride!

[infectuz]

Deffinitly not a good landing - a three point landing with that cross wind is nuts

[Ubertone]

If it were me in my 47 Luscombe 8E, with all that mechanical turbulence and the x-wind, I'd have at least tried a wheel-landing first. Making the transition to tail-down while rolling seems easier than trying to avoid any loss of control at the slow airspeed needed for a three-pointer.

[calvin22082200]

this was a very good landing which during an extreme crosswind

[Sv650K4]

that look a bit trick i am going to be flying my dads luscombe 8a this summer and getting experience in it

[DHUNT571]

left elevator hits the ground... slow the vid down, you can see it drag...

[comcfi]

no it doesn't

[DHUNT571]

yes it does.

[comcfi]

no it doesn't

[DHUNT571]

yes it does, pause vid at 39 seconds. blow up to full screen. then get sum glasses.

[DHUNT571]

correction (40 seconds) 1 frame where runway light blocks camera view.

[cactus743]

Looking at the video repeatedly, it appears that the plane's elevator does not touch the ground. However, it comes very close to hitting the ground though. I'd say about about less than a inch. It is disputable if the elevator hits the ground or not.

[N520UP]

Why was that guy in the background going on about Apples?

[scubakobe]

It was a stand up comedian.

[jailbreak2000]

Trike pilot here. I'd have made a mess of that plane in those conditions.

[whiskypud]

As a Luscombe owner, the pilot did a great job considering the conditions. I am sorry that your average pilot who flies an airplane with a training (nose)wheel does not understand the airmanship required as seen in this video.

[scubakobe]

And with talking to another Luscombe owner I know that there is plenty of rudder throw to enter a slip. Try that in a 152 and your pedals will be hitting the bulkhead.

I am not sorry for the "average" pilot who flies tricycle gear.

[mjobusch]

I really want to learn tailwheel - I find it interesting that so many tailwheel pilots jab at people who fly trikes - I just don't get it -- sometimes the best flight schools don't have a tailwheel to learn on - tailwheels are a little harder to learn, but student pilots will generally be within one hour in solo progression -- new kid house divorce - not flying now - trike or otherwise - 152's slip really well with full rudder - push it to the stop, and hold the centerline with a little aileron.

[burningcow422]

152s have plenty of rudder... In winds like that I wouldn't be flying. Just a little personal minimum I have that I never cross. Big woop if a Luscombe has plenty of rudder in winds like that, but even if it can slip in 25+ you shouldn't be flying in those conditions in the first place.

Just my 0.2

[scubakobe]

Nice to see some more videos of Flabob, that EAA event was just last Saturday for this year and was windy just like last year's event.

[Stukadriver]

Hey...not bad, considering how much those trees in the background were swaying.Quite a crosswind! Putting a light taildragger on the runway and keeping it on the ground like that is tricky. Especially when having the pressure of a camera on you.