I don't know where you get your numbers from, however, people are free to learn about the Quaran, Buda, and other religius leaders, and then make a desicion, how ever in the Arabic countries their own citicents don't have that God given freedom, to accept Him or reject Him. You shoul talk the truth about waht the Quaran say in the USA, end let the Biblie to be study by people in the Muslims country freely, and see what happen.
@elagentenumerouno why you want the Bible be studied freely in moslim countrys?
if u look at background of us(moslims) so you will find us that we were christians or jews or hindus or bhudist etc, before we see the truth(Islam) & accept it. its mean we came out of experience of other religions & when we found its false & it cant fulfill needs of people, then we left it & accepted path of God. so why you want us return to the false we came out of from it?!! :)
@theProudMoslim Because people should have the right to decide. Not to be forced to be Muslim. Americans are so horrible right? Why, because we allow our people to choose what to believe? Ridiculous.
@dkparamore1 yes people should have the right to accept what they want,& we accepted Islam & left false religions by our OWN CHOICES,so its mean we will not return to it again,& we dont have to waist our times to read or study false books(which we already left it),we have to read & study what God told us & its in his revelation(Quran),& BTW what U want me study in the Bible? 1st let the Christians church's fathers be agree in one copy of Bible & in numbers of books then come 2me & ask 2read it!!
@theProudMoslim I don't know what lies you have been told about Christianity, but we only have ONE Bible, and the Bible is the ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD! If you had left Christianity then you would have known that, probably because you are from a country where you would be killed for reading about Christianity.
@dkparamore1 I havent told any lie about Christianity!!!
the Bible of Catholic Church & east Orthodox have 73 books, & the Bible of Protestants have just 66 books, & Bible of Ethiopian Orthodox have 81 books, & Bible of East European Orthodox have 87 books,Plus the different versions of the Bible like KJV, & SVD & RSV & NIV............. and all these versions are different than others, & RSV mean (revised standard version) so will words of God need any revision ?!!!
and please before say anything about my country so visit it 1st look ate the people then talk..........
if I would be killed if read about Christianity then I would not have online bibles web sites coming in my house with other christian sites and Anti Islamic sites as well..........
@theProudMoslim My answer is: Other Muslims have mention the same to me before, it's what most of you have being taut before, and the answer it's simple and logical; The Bible have never being prove to be false, other religion and teaching has being. When some Muslims learn what God say in the Bible, and pray to God for the truth, they see the amazing difference. God has being calling you to come to His arms.
@elagentenumerouno we were in the wrong path, and God has guided us to His path(Islam)
so we are his worshipers and followers.......
and if you want me to prove that the bible it self prove that it is fals then this limited place of the comments.
but the clear & simple point is that there is many books of the bible and every sect has its own numbers of the books of the bible, so till U cant diside which is true and dont agree on the numbers of the books then cant say it is from God
Ask the Israelites how many a clear sign have we given them; and whoever changes favor of Allah after it has come to him, then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
Quran:
(Surah-2-the cow-vs-216)
Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
MiddleEast ALWAYS at war! Mohammad murderer! Jesus healed & blessed! Mohammad was violent! Jesus Peace/Love & is GOD! Mohammad/SINFUL man! ISLAM! All your ISLAMIC/MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF the ABUSE & MISERY! Your leaders are killing you! All Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR! John 3:16 Your must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God! PLEASE REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be free from this horror! You'll be SO happy! Visit wlix radio.com
Especially if he was getting his information straight from "God Himself"? pluralMuhammad had obviously heard some Bible stories, but he seems to have got them confused and mixed up when it came out in his prophetic utterances. It is quite apparent that the Qu'ran is simply the product of hearsay and imperfect editing from aity of traditions then known to Muhammad.
If the Qur'an is a true miracle of God - why is it so filled with historical, scientific and other errors, including simple math? Wouldn't we expect an all-knowing Allah to be better student of history, science and math?
And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers besides God if you [doubts] are true (2:23) Have they not reflected on this Qur'an? Surely if it were from other than God, they would find in it many a contradictions (4:48)
You cannot read the Qur'an in English and point out the err0ors; learn Arabic first and then take up the challenges in the Qur'an.
@111dfdf Obviously someone who does cross reference anything that is heard from among his own camp. Just ridiculousness of your statements is nauseating. Please refer to Zakir Naik on this subject of YouTube that answers your so called allegations against the Qur'an; doing so may even turn to towards the Qur'an.
The Koran teaches that the world is flat. This doctrine is believed by Islamic scholars even today. The Bible revealed that the earth is round in Isaiah 40:22. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth".
These expressions like ''rolled out like a carpet'' , it is important to have an understanding of classical Arabic rhetoric, the meanings and expressions used. For example in Arabic another way of saying a lady is beatiful is saying there is space between her earlobes and her neck, implying she has a long slender neck, meaning she is beatiful. One of the pre requisites to even begin trying to understand the Quran is to study pre Islamic poetry, before that, the 13 sciences of Arabi
Nope, the primary meaning of the word 'sulb' is loins, one of its meanings is also backbone, go check practically every classical Arabic dictionary and see how it was understood then. What your doing is just latching onto a few translations, with absolutely no knowledge of classical Arabic, if you dont know, then just ask, simple.
Doesnt matter if it was said a million times , doesnt make something more correct, if thats your logic, then either Christianity or Islam is DEFINITELY true, IF your going by numbers.
Im not going to keep on replying, Ill cut is short, give you this link, it gives you a few dictionaries at the bottom, and you can research other dictionaries as well, both classic and modern.
Yeah dont worry about taqqiya, its not a shia website, they give you the dictionaries so you can go check for yourself if you dont trust the actual website.
How come only the Shiites are allowed to lie, according to the Sunnis? Is it because the Shia believe Muhammad was right when he said "war is deceit" and Sunnis DON'T believe that?
Now your getting into war, which is something completely different to the concept of taqqiya. Anyway, I gave you the link with the dictionaries, because you probably dont trust me, go read them and correct yourself.
That whole question doesnt make sense, I dont think you actually understand the meaning and the actual etymology of the word taqqiya, if you did you would not have asked that question. Taqqiya has absolutely nothing to do with the rules of war..........
Back to the topic, did you check any of the dictionaries?
We can talk about that later, or you can send me a personal message, I didnt come here to debate issues with you, your on a completely different topic.
'That sperm is formed between the loins and the ribs.'
Going to have to correct you again, though not as major as the first, the verse your referring to doesnt say formed anywhere, it says issued, proceeding.
And seeming you take my word for it, and the fact that Ive given you the sources with dictionaries ( and I can give you more), if your not the type of defiant person that doesnt accept anything that goes against their view, then you shouldnt say this anymore.
It "proceeds from the loins and ribs"? The word "penis" couldn't be mentioned? By the way, according to the Hadith, it sounds like Muhammad believed women didn't have eggs, but, sperm as well, and, if she "discharged first" before her mate, the child would be a girl. Do you believe that?
Theres many different types of hadith, all on different levels of authenticity, and things that may seem contradictory to what we now know, its not that important. Im not here to discuss hadith with you, I can refer you to a scholar online if your really looking for expert answers.
Once again, going to have to correct you again........ it doesnt say ''That proceeds from the loins and ribs'', it says '''That issued / proceeds from between the loins and ribs''.
And you feel that means the penis? By the way. You say there are many types of hadith on all levels of authenticity. Do you believe in all the "sahih" Hadiths, or, do you see many of them as "weak and fabricated"?
No theres a difference between something proceeding FROM the loins and ribs, and a difference BETWEEN, I put the caps to make it clear, this has been going on for too long, such a basic thing.
'' Do you believe in all the "sahih" Hadiths'
I dont think you know, theres different levels of sahih hadiths aswell, its not just a black and white ''authentic, and weak'' its a deep topic that ones needs to study.
Oh, so even a SAHIH hadith can be weak and fabricated? If so, how can you tell an authentitic sahih from a fabricated Hadith? Muhammad saying the sun asking permission to rise again would be fabricated for certain, wouldn't you think? And, having virgins with mile wide seats (patootis) in Jennah HAS to be fabricated as well, or, performing ablution with "clean soil" has to be one also, true? But, I've noticed that Muslims like to quote the sahih hadith about the Jew's cover being blown by
the rock he hides behind so the "slave of Allah" can come and kill him, and THAT hadith is quoted a LOT, so, that WOULDN'T be fabricated, don't you think?
I just checked your channel, and I dont know you personally but you seem pretty immature for an adult. In one of the videos where you pretend to speak as a so called muslim changing the camera and accent etc, wow, extremely childish. And ''your patooti in the air '', you do realise in your own book, Jesus also prayed like that? The Jews were also commanded to pray like that by God according to your belief?
Im not replying anymore after seeing some childish videos.
Muslims think they prostrate like Jesus did in the garden, but, prostration means to lie flat on the ground or floor. Muslims DON'T lie flat on the ground or floor and are NOT in prostration. They are in more of a bow. And, due to the way their knees are bent with nose on floor/ground, the term "patooti in the air" fits the so called "prostration", which, again, they NEVER do during salat. So, call me immature all you want. The term "patooti in the air" fits salat like a glove.
Your whole argument that Jesus did NOT prostrate like us muslims do is COMPLETELY destroyed by the fact that the Hebrew word (and ancient Greek) in the Bible describing Jesus's action is putting the head on the floor. I can refer you to some well known classical dictionaries if you want about ancient Hebrew, semitic languages, and a few good ancient Greek ones. I like dictionaries, and theyre usefull---as you can see.
Oh, I'll take your word that he put his head on the floor (more like ground), because that WOULD be a part of being prostrate when he was in the garden that night. However, WHERE does it say in the Injeel that Jesus' knees were bent, forcing his patooti up in the air like Muslims when worshipping, I mean, facing the black stone in the big, black, dark cube?
The word used for the prostration is used for the same action that muslims do when praying. The Jews also pray like that. Lying on the ground has a completely different word in BOTH ancient Hebrew and Greek.
Are there any pictures on the internet with Jews putting their patootis in the air like Muslims? I thought Jews, when praying, rock back and forth? But, if not, show where they are bowed down and facing the Whailing Wall with their patootis in the air like a Muslim doing salat.
3. Of course there's different levels of sahih hadith, and there are some that are rejected by the tradition, I dont think you realise, its a deep topic, and one needs years of study, scholars have studied it for years, Im not replying to any of your sayings about hadith, because you know nothing about it.
Hang on, you find Islamic beliefs absurd? Youve pointed out hadith which we dont even believe to the the word of God,and like I said hadith is a deep topic, now, let me ask you, since your a Christian that believes the Bible IS the infallible inspired word of God:
You believe plants came before the sun?(heard of photosynthesis?)
You believe in 7 headed dragons?
6000 -10,000 year old earth?
Global flood at the time there were world civilisations prospering like Egypt?
If not, how come in Quran 5:68 it tells Christians they have NO ground to stand upon UNLESS they "stand firm upon the Injeel"? Why stand firm upon something incomplete?
Mega: Well, the Quran pretty much says the same thing when it says the Quran is a "confirmation of that which went before it" and has surah 5:68 and 10:94, to name a few.
Kap: You believe plants came before the sun?(heard of photosynthesis?)
Mega: The Quran says the same thing, so, I guess Allah didn't hear of it either, true? Want the surah and verse?
kap: You believe in 7 headed dragons?
Mega: Do you believe in 99 headed dragons and a scorpion to to torment
Mega: Did you know that the Quran says the earth was created first, then says Allah "turned his attention to the sky, which was smoke"?
Kap: Global flood at the time there were world civilisations prospering like Egypt?
Mega: What about Quran 36:40-43? Or, is that NOT talking about Noah? Oh, and read 36:40-43. Sounds like the sun and move travel in vessels (arks) similar to "their offspring Noah".
Kap: You believe when female babies are born, theyre double the period unclean than that of males?
Mega: If you read the Hadith, sounds like the urine of females is unclean, but, not the males. Want that saying?
Kap: You believe Prophets of GOD commit adultery ( like David,who PLANS it),or become naked drunks (Noah) and more?
Mega: I bet you DON'T believe Mr. (pbuh) married a six year old, true? And, yes, I believe Noah got drunk because the Torah (which the Quran says is "both guidanc
Mega: ...the Torah (which the Quran says is "both guidance and light") SAYS Noah got drunk.
Kap: You believe in talking serpents?
Mega: Do you believe in talking donkys and ants? Or, do you not believe in the Hadith AT all? Wait, the talking ants...gee, where is THAT located? Want to guess?
Kap: You believe the earth had an evening and a day BEFORE it had an orbit?
Mega: How do you not know it wasn't rotating infront of some other light sourse? But, hey, the Quran says
Mega: But, hey, the Quran says it's a confirmation and reminder OF the Torah, so, you have to believe that also, true?
Kap: You believe the earth came BEFORE the sun?
Mega: Do you believe the earth came BEFORE the sky...which was smoke after Allah finished the earth then turned his attention to the sky?
Kap: I can go on,
Mega: But, you won't, because you're afraid you will prove the Quran true when it says it's a "confirmation and reminder of that which went before it" (i.e. The Bible)?
Kap: but Id like to see what youve got to say,seeming these are in what you believe to be the word of God, guide for humanity.
Mega: Are you a Muslim, or, an atheist? If what you have presented destroys the credibility of the Bible, then HOW, pray tell, can you have faith enough in Islam to pull out a prayer rug five times a day, EVERY day, and stick your patooti up in the air while thinking you AREN'T worshipping the big, black cube in the desert?
TheKap1an: You believe when female babies are born, theyre double the period unclean than that of males?
Mega: If the "Book" says so, then it must be true in some way. Did you know that the urine of a female is unclean according to Muhammad? Sounds like you'd agree with this from the "Book" if the "Book" has said such thing.
TheKap1an: You believe Prophets of GOD commit adultery ( like David,who PLANS it),or become naked drunks (Noah) and more?
...I mean, MARRIED a 6 year old, and screwed her when she was 9.
TheKap: You believe in talking serpents?
Mega: According to the Quran, YOU should believe in talking serpents as well, being that the Quran says the Torah (which has the talking serpent), says the Torah is not only LIKE the Quran, but, is "both guidance and light", and is "Allah's words" to the point where a Jew has NO ground to stand upon unLESS he stands firm upon the Torah (see Quran 5:68).
@TheKap1an: You believe the earth had an evening and a day BEFORE it had an orbit?
Mega: If YOU don't believe that, then you are going against the Quran, because the Quran, again, says the Torah is "Allah's words", and, YOU are to believe ALL the words of Allah. Did you know the Quran says it "confirms 'whatever scripture was before it'"? So, you BETTER believe the earth had an evening and a day beFORE it had an orbit.
If you read the Quran, you BETTER believe the earth came before the the sun. As a matter of fact, you have to believe that the earth was without a sun for about four thousand years, being that one day, to Allah, is a thousand years of our reconning, meaning that, plants on earth were without a sun for four thousand years before Allah turned his attention to the sky, "which was then smoke".
TheKap: I can go on,but Id like to see what youve got to say,seeming these are in what
TheKap: ... you believe to be the word of God, guide for humanity.
Mega: Which YOU have to believe, being that the Quran says it's a confirmation of. Not only a confirmation of, but, the Book is something YOU, a Muslim, have to believe is also Allah's words. By the way, what do you think of the Quran saying it confirms whatEVER scripture came before it? And, that Christians and Jews are to "judge" what is in the Quran with the "Book" (Bible)? So, YOu are to believe the Bible as well.
And no, the word Bible is NOWHERE in the Quran, stop putting your own words into it, the Bible is a bunch of books and letters, we believe in the GOSPEL of Jesus,and the Quran came to CONFIRM what came before and act as the CRITERION to judge what's wrong and right between former scripture, stop cherry picking. So we dont believe Prophet David is an adulterer,or Lot had sex with his daughters,or Noah is a drunk, like you believe.
Oh, cherry picking again, something a lot of Christians do when it comes to the Quran. Stop taking SOME of the Quran and ignoring the rest, the Quran came as a criterion to JUDGE what is true and what is not between former scriptures, nowhere does it say the past scriptures are in their perfect form, it criticizes it in places, rejects it, and accepts what truth it has left in it in other places, so stop cherry picking. So no,we dont believe the earth came before the sun, but youdo
(continued)...In Quran 5:47, it tells People of the Gospel (Christians), to "judge what Allah hath revealed therein." HOW can Christians judge therein IF the Bible is corrupted?
TheKap: nowhere does it say the past scriptures are in their perfect form,
Mega: No, the Quran just has the Quran saying it "confirms and reminds before Scriptures", has Quran 5:68 telling People of the Book to "stand firm upon" Torah and Injeel" (i.e. The Bible), and, tells YOU, a Muslim, to come to me FOR my r
Mega: (continued)...to come to me for my reading "before Scriptures" (Bible), IF you are in doubt about the Quran (see Quran 10:94).
TheKap: it criticizes it in places, rejects it, and accepts what truth it has left in it in other places,
Mega: IF what you say is true (and not taqqiya), can you explain why the Quran says it's confirmation of that which went before it, and why there is Quran 5:68 and 10:94?
Mega: (cont): You mean by pointing out inconsistencies in the "clear signs handed down".
TheKap: So no,we dont believe the earth came before the sun, but youdo
Mega: No, you just believe that before the smokey sky was turned into stars, the earth existed for four thousand years without stars being that "one day to Allah is a thousand years of your reconning." Want that scripture?
TheKap: And no, the word Bible is NOWHERE in the Quran,
Mega: True, it's just called "Before Scriptures", "previous Scriptures", "Torah", "Injeel", "Psalms", "The Book" (which makes PEOPLE of the Book...Jews and Christians).
TheKap: stop putting your own words into it,
Mega: You mean my questions.
TheKap: the Bible is a bunch of books and letters,
Mega: How does that make the Bible NOT the "Word of God"?
oh my, its a confirmation of what TRUTH is left in past scripture, stop just taking ONE verse and ignoring the entire Qurans approach to past revelation, the Quran confirms what is true, and REJECTS what is false, THATS the Qurans apporach. Stop latching onto 2 verses and ignoring the entire rest of the Quran, typical really, just taking what fits your point of view.
TheKap: oh my, its a confirmation of what TRUTH is left in past scripture,
Mega: Where does it say in the "clear signs handed down" that the Quran only confirms what is left in past scriptures? But IF that is the case, can you please explain Quran 5:68, 10:94, and scriptures from the Quran that say Allah's words can't be changed nor altered? Can you explain how a Person of the Book is to JUDGE between the Quran and the Bible IF the Bible (Book), is corrupted? HOW can a Person of the Book
Mega: (contin.) Can you explain how a Person of the Book is to JUDGE between the Quran and the Bible IF the Bible (Book), is corrupted? HOW can a Person of the Book BE a judge? Want that scripture?
TheKap: stop just taking ONE verse and ignoring the entire Qurans approach to past revelation,
Mega: JUST one verse? GUESS how many verses there are I could ask you on considering this "confirmation" stuff the Quran talks of that it does with the Bible? Want a guess?
TheKap: the Quran confirms what is true, and REJECTS what is false,
Mega: That's what it says, yet, it has Quran 5:68 telling People of the Book to STAND upon something that says Jesus not only died on the cross for your sins, and is the "Son of God", but, IS God with John 1:1. Why stand upon ANYthing that has "shirk", which, according to Islam, is the WORST of sins? WHY obey Quran 10:94 IF the Bible is NOT the "Book" (which makes People of the Book)? HOW come you can NEVER answer me?
TheKap: typical really, just taking what fits your point of view.
Mega: A pretty strong point of view since you can never answer me on why I should obey Quran 5:68 and 5:47. I mean HOW can I "judge therin" IF the Bible is corrupted? Again, can you make the "clear signs handed down" more clear here?
@111dfdf The earth is not circle, it is spherical. In the fact, the Qur'an describes the earth as being egg shaped, and describing the night and day as "coiling" towards each other.
If you stand on a high mountain and look at the earth, it appears as a circle.
Shorosh is uneducated,his motives were to fool both Muslims&Christians.
his idea was to become famous&get rich.the truth is he doesn't deserve a chance to debate with Muslims scholars.he was nurturing from this debates.he is a criminal felony & he got arrested & serving time in prison. he lied to the Christians& the Muslims. just watch all his debates! he didn't had any proof! he presented nothing but lies&criticizing Islam.nowadays that's the best way to get rich&famous then pay the price!
"Say: "People of the Book! Come to a proposition which is the same for us and you - that we should worship none but God and not associate any partners with Him and not take one another as lords besides God." (Qur'an, 3:64)
People of the book are the Jews [Jews and Christians] who were sent Prophets before, however many of them had strayed from the path after the Prophets were gone:
Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah(on the other hand)will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude. 3:144
The BOOK was the book "scriptures" given to the Prophets before the Qur'an was revealed. The Prophets didnt walk around with the "gospels of John or Luke", they were given DIVINE scripture of which some of it remains intact and some of it remains lost forever. Hence why the Qur'an was revealed as the FINAL revelation to connect the dots of what was left out of the bible.
And, yet, the Quran talks of some "Book" as if it's as common as the Bible that makes Jews and Christians. And, yet, Muslims say Muhammad is IN the Bible. Are they wrong to SAY Muhammad is in the Bible IF the Bible is NOT the Book? Are they, or, are they not?
Oh, guess who is passing a kidney stone right now? Me. I think I'll see if I can pass it without damage. It feels like what a knife might feel coming out of my kidney. By the way, if you have such a problem, try drinking lemon juice. I was able to beat it that way before, but, from the pain I'm experiencing now, I bet it won't work. Oh well. Anyway, good night.
In otherwords, become Muslim. But, again, WHO are the "People of the Book" and, WHAT is the "Book" that makes PEOPLE of the Book IF the Book ISN'T the Bible? WHAT is that "Book"?
"... There is a community among the People of the Book who are upright. They recite God's signs throughout the night, and they prostrate. They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and compete in doing good. They are among the righteous. You will not be denied the reward for any good thing you do. God knows those who guard against evil." (Qur'an, 3:113-115)
When the Glorious Qur'an intends to reprimand the People of the Book for their deviation, it addresses them by the title: [those who have been given a portion of the Book] , as a reference to their negligence of some of what Allah the Almighty has revealed.
When the Qur'an depicts the People of the Book as “believers” it is referring to those who believed in the teachings of the Prophet of their time as long as there were no other Prophets sent by Allah during their lifetime.
Why couldn't the "clear signs handed down" just said, "there are People of the Book who are Muslims"? But, that's besides the point, WHO are the "People of the Book" that AREN'T Muslims, and, WHAT is the "Book" that MAKES "People of the Book"? Can you explain that IF People of the Book AREN'T Jews and Christians?
Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way - except in the case of those of them who do wrong - saying, "We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him." (Qur'an, 29:46)
Let's put aside the ones who are Muslims, and focus on those who are of the "Book". WHAT is that "Book" that makes PEOPLE of the Book? What is it, please?
This should help your understanding of the "people of the book":
Among the People of the Book there are some who believe in God and in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down to them, and who are humble before God. They do not sell God's signs for a paltry price. Such people will have their reward with their Lord. And God is swift at reckoning. (Qur'an, 3:199)
the bible didnt succed it's 1 true mission The Children of Israel, obviously because if it had suceeded then why was Jesus on the cross therefore it failed it's mission because the people didnt accept Jesus's message
SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed,"
Question. Did ANY of you see "what remains in tact" in this scripture? Is this not taqqiya in the open from Jamal?
@MegaBoxer77 EVERYTHING from day 0 to last day is written in a preserved tabled (Quran 85:22), this is what is meant by scriptures or what is written before the Quran. The revelations (revealed through Gabriel or in the case of Moses, directly by God) did not come down in a printed form (nor did the Quran), and is what is meant by "before scriptures" and "what was revealed before you" O Mohammed (PBUH).
Are you sure? HOW can you believe the "messengers" (plural), if that which was handed down to them has been corrupted whether or not their words are recorded on a heavenly tablet or not? IF you are right, where in the Quran does it say to believe ONLY what is on the heavenly tablet and NOT which was handed down? Do you get what you believe it means by reading surah 4:136?
@MegaBoxer77 You are not making any sense. How do you know???? Who reveals it? God. Are you saying God doesn't know? The Quran is the word of God unchanged (preserved). Same one we use toda worldwide as the one attested by Mohammed (PBUH). In Quran the test of previous scriptures: If verses contradict the Quran, they have been corrupted. All the prophets came with the same message: 1 God, even Jesus (Matt. 12:29)
So, are the words of Allah handed down corrupted now, or, are they not? When you say, "Same one we use toda worldwide as the one attested by", well, doesn't that mean the Quran is not lying when it says Allah's handed down words AREN'T corrupted? That one CAN "stand firm upon the Torah and Injeel", CAN go to those who have read the "before Scriptures" if one is in doubt about the Quran (10:94)? That there IS "confirmation and reminding"? One CAN obey 4:136?
@MegaBoxer77 You are not following this. The Bible we have today, the Torah we have today are not the same as revealed to Moses and Jesus (PBUH). Moses never wrote the Books attributed to him, Jesus never wrote the Gospels. Neither attested to current scriptures to be authentic. See the difference. The Quran also warns those who change words of God to profit from it. So, the final revelation, the Quran, unchanged as Allah promised "we descended it and we will protect it". Find one contradiction
YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee."
PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever (whatever?) Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed,"
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors."
How can "Person of the Book" (Jews and Christians), JUDGE if the Bible is corrupted?
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by
He says the Quran says to NOT accept the Bible, yet, the Quran tells Persons of the Book (Bible), to stand firm upon the Torah and Injil (which help make up the "Book").
Hello. I'm a 'Person of The Book', obeying the command of Quran 5:68, which tells me that I have NO ground to stand upon, unless I stand firm upon the Torah and Injil (BIBLE, actually), and, I am waiting for a Muslim to come to me IF that Muslim is in doubt about the Quran, because Quran 10:94 tells Muhammad (who is to be followed by Muslims), to GO to those who have read the 'before Scriptures" (i.e. Bible), if HE was in doubt about the Quran. Oh, and another thing, not only is the---
-- not only is the Bible supposed to be Allah's words according to the Quran, but, according to the Quran, which calls itself the "clear signs handed down", Allah's words CAN'T be changed or altered, so, thus, the Quran isn't lying when it says it a 'confirmation and reminder of that which went before it' (i.e. The Bible again)."
@MegaBoxer77 Shows how much you understand even when it is said in English.
Bible is written by 40 or more anonymous authors. The word Bible does not exist in the Bible. What the Quran refers to when it says Injeel and Torah, are the original revelations to Moses and Jesus (PBUT). Notice: not printed forms.
Bible has been corrupted by authors who had their own agendas (Paul and John). Quran is JUST words of God, nothing else. Written bible, some words of God, historians, pornographers (Eze.23)
IF what you are saying is true, shouldn't Quran 2:106 kicked in to abrogate all those Quranic scriptures that talk of the Quran being a "confirmation and reminder of that which went before it" (The Bible)? IF it's not the Bible, then WHAT are the "before Scriptures"? They must have been as common as the Bible were in the time of the "clear signs handed down" because the ONLY Bible the Christians and Jews stood firm upon (5:68), was the "Book", the Bible. IF it's NOT the Bible..
IF it's not the Bible, well, WHAT is the "Book" that makes "People of the Book"? And WHO were these people one was to go go according to Quran 10:94 IF one was in doubt about the Quran? By the way, HOW can one obey 4:136 IF the "books" ISN'T the Bible? HOW can you believe in ALL that the messengers (plural) were sent IF the Bible is corrupted? The "Book" is supposed to be Allah's words, IF it IS the Bible, HOW could Allah's words become corrupted?
@MegaBoxer77 Need to ask Muslim scholars rather than Christians to get the truth.
Quran 2:106: Allah in Quran does not do idle chit-chat when telling Mohammed (PBUH) any story (straight to the point). When people ask Mohammed (PBUH) Qs which require previous information revealed to be explained further (the new information which is fuller supercedes the old). That is the context of 2:106.
@MegaBoxer77 Abrogation has several meaning. The main one here for this verse is Annul (cancel). Remember, the Quran was revealed over nearly 23 years, as things happened verses were revealed to Mohammed (PBUH). So, there were times where previous matters told as passing had to explained in detail. Therefore, the old verses (already revealed and could have been thrown, but Quran is true as revealed) were annulled or cancelled. Government laws are same, they change, but we don't question them.
IF the Quran is "preserved on a tablet in heaven", and, there is changing going on with the Quran that is handed down", which one is one to believe? The one that is in Heaven, or, the one that is changing in the time of Muhammad,only?
@MegaBoxer77 Right. The preserved tablet, as mentioned before, has EVERYTHING on it that will happen from day 0 to final day, not just the Quran on it. Ok so far? Right, so that means it will contain Everything, even if something started as red but became green. However, the Quran was not written in one sitting, so nothing had to be changed (as in crossed out and new ). Verses were updated with more info.
@solitaire06 Sol: You are not following this. The Bible we have today, the Torah we have today are not the same as revealed to Moses and Jesus (PBUH).
Mega: If so, HOW can a Person of the Book JUDGE between their Bible and the Quran like Quran 5:47 TELLS them do? WHY "stand firm" (5:68) IF there is corruption in the Bible? But, again, HOW can one "stand firm upon" something corrupted AND judge (5:47) IF the Bible or "Book" is corrupted?
Sol: Right. The preserved tablet, as mentioned before, has EVERYTHING on it that will happen from day 0 to final day, not just the Quran on it.
Mega: NOT just the Quran on it? So, if the Bible is corrupted, WHY even mention a "preserved tablet" to show the Quran isn't corrupted? IF BOTH are on a "preserved tablet", yet, the Bible is corrupted, who CARES if there is a "preserved tablet"? It doesn't mean anything, does it not?
@MegaBoxer77 Right, for the last time. Take Bible. Jesus taught one God, keep commnadments, men voted differently in Nicea 325AD. They, by show of hand voted Jesus God and changed his teachings with Paul's. See what I mean, the original is not there. Now, 4:136 talks about the revelations before the corruption. Remember, the verses came down 1400 years ago.
"And believe in that which I reveal, confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture), and be not first to disbelieve therein, and part not with My revelations for a trifling price, and keep your duty unto Me".
"Confirming that which ye possess already"? Sounds like the original WAS there in the time of the "clear signs handed down", or, WHY didn't Quran 2:106 kick in and say, "NO longer confirming"?
@MegaBoxer77 Same way as Muslim judges between Quran and Bible. Since Quran is unchanged since revealed some 1400, the Quran is uncorrupted. It is the one that should be used as it is Universal. All prophets were sent to specific people with a limited and timed revelation. EG: Jesus (PBUH) sent to Israelites.
"O ye who believe (Muslims)! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture (The Holy Bible) which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books (The Holy Bible), His Messengers (Jesus and the Injil), and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. "? HOW can you believe that IF the Bible is corrupted?
@MegaBoxer77 It does not refer to Holy Bible. As I said, the word bible is from the greek Biblos= Book. The word Bible is not in the Bible. The Bible was written by over 40 anonymous authors. The main teachings are from Paul (NT). 14 out of 27 NT Gospels are Paul's. Bible is opinion of anonymous authors about who Jesus was. This opinion is influenced by their human understanding, experiences, and political agendas. I have been fasting all day, I am going now to eat. Take care
IF the Bible is NOT what the Quran is talking about, then what is the "Book" that makes "People of the Book", and WHAT is the point of Quran 4:136? WHAT are those "books" handed down to messengers (plural) of Allah you are to believe in so you won't be "far, far astray"?
Oh, one more thing, IF the Bible is NOT the "Book" that makes "People of the Book", then WHY do so many Muslims say Muhammad is IN the Bible? HOW do they know Muhammad is IN the Bible IF the Bible is NOT what the Quran is talking about?
Simple. The bible is truth mixed with falsehood. The truths in the bible [Old Testament] " praying to one God" conflict with the falsehoods "trinity, idolatry, women being the first sinners, etc." God, the only LORD you shall take, is made clear in the Old Testament, however Paul changes the idea of LORDSHIP being given to Jesus [a man]. The inner turmoil within the bible demonstrates how it cannot be the Divine Word of God.
Sounds like you feel the Book "Bible" is corrupted. If so, then there are MANY scriptures in the "clear signs handed down" that are lies and contradictions. MANY of them.
And if those 60 pages are TRUE and NOT anti-Bible propoganda, well, what's that tell you about the Quran that says Allah's words can't be changed or altered? WHAT does that tell you about Quran 4:136, 5:68, and 10:94? HOW can Christians and Jews "JUDGE" what is in Bible with the Quran? HOW can the Quran be a "confirmation and reminder of that which went before it" IF the Bible is false?
Its funny, because Mr. Badawi answered this already in this very video. The Tawrat and the Injeel are lost. The BIBLE IS NOT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS. It is the Gospels of "john, mark, luke, and matthew" [and it's not even really written by those supposed authors]. The Tawrat has been altered to suit the Rabbi's selfish beliefs. The inclusion of the Talmud into Jewish practices has turned Judaism into a racist religion that looks down upon non-jews.
IF the Tawrat and Injeel are lost, they had to be lost AFTER the writing of Quran 2:106, or, if not, HOW come there is Quran 5:68, 4:136 and 10:94? HOW can the Quran be a "confirmation" of the "Torah and Injil" IF those two have been corrupted? How? Again, IF they are corrupted, how come the abrogating scripture of 2:106 didn't kick in to say DON'T follow Quran 5:68, 4:136 and 10:94?
Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things ? [[002:106]
Nothing from the Revelations are forgotten EXCEPT in the case that the new revelation is going to be sent down to replace the OLD ONES i.e. Qur'an to replace tawrat and injeel.
IF so, then WHY is there Quran 5:68, 4:136 and 10:94? By the way, I found some OTHER juicy ones today that would REALLY kick someone in the upraised patooti in prostration.
Show me the juicy ones I want them. I'm writing a document on the missionary lies spread against Islam. You are helping me kind sir by giving me these proofs.
ALL of my bible verses are directly from the bible, and the bible contradicts itself I do not need to bring anything else to prove the bible wrong but history, science, and the bible itself.
It could be that in the first, he was speaking as a man (the human part that can't do anything unless it be of the will of his Father), then, in the latter, he was speaking of the God part of himself when he CAN testify on his own behalf). This is like when he says, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good, only God." Here, since he WAS good, he was calling himself God.
LOL. He was denying being God, because no one is WORTHY of being called GOOD BUT God, NOT JESUS OR ANYONE ELSE. HE SIMPLY CORRECTED THE DISCIPLE. He did not say I AM YOUR LORD....whereas the "GOD" of the bible in the OLD TESTAMENT CLEARLY MAKES IT KNOWN HE IS GOD:
He had others say it for him. Mainly John and Paul. Remember, he COULD have used his powers in the desert to make stones into bread, and, in the process, he'd lose his humanity. But, he resisted the devil and suffered as a human. So he could possibly call himself "the Son of Man", even though he was also, "the Son of God".
No. If JEsus was the same God as the Old Testament God, he would have said so. He performed miracles, but so did Elijah, Elisha, Noah, Moses etc. It doesn't make him GOD that he could turn stones into bread. Elisha's BONES RESURRECTED A DEAD BODY MERELY BY TOUCHING IT. MOSES PARTED A WHOLE SEA. ELIJAH FLEW TO HEAVEN IN A WHIRLWIND ON A CHARIOT OF FIRE. Miracles don't make you God, it makes you OF God [sent by Him with signs].
True, miracles don't make you God, but, according to the Injil's Saint Paul, Jesus was "before all things, and by him do all things consist, both visible and invisible". That sounds MORE than just a miracle worker or prophet.
The bible IS NOT the Injeel and Dr. Badawi already cleared that up. The Injeel was Jesus' teachings, the Word given to him from God. The Bible was not fully complete and distributed until a good 300-400 years AFTER the "death" of Jesus.
IF the Injil is NOT the New Testament, then WHAT is the Injil the Quran talks of? I mean, IF you read the Quran, the Injil the Quran speaks of seems to be as common as the Torah and the Psalms. It seems to be as common as the Bible, well, the "Book" that makes PEOPLE of the Book. IF the "Book" is NOT the Bible, well, WHAT pray tell are the "People of the Book"?
If you haven't noticed the "bible" you read today is NOT the SAME as the the scriptures locked away in Jerusalem. The original teachings of the Injeel, was not a book that was GIVEN to the disciples of Jesus, it was Jesus' message. PAUL made the New Testament, and PAUL never even met Jesus in real life. The Injeel, just like the Laws given to Moses, were not left behind except in the form of teachings. The original teachings are forever lost. Need I show you some documentaries?
IF what you are saying is true, they had to be lost AFTER the "handing down" of Quran 2:106 being that Quranic scriptures were never abrogated to tell People of the Book to NOT stand firm upon the Torah and Injil, true? IF they are lost or corrupted, it had to be AFTER the handing down of 4:136 and 10:94, true? I mean WHY should you come to ME for my reading the "before Scriptures" (and the Torah, Injil and Psalms are before scriptures), well, it had to be AFTER the abrogation, true?
I suggest you re-watch this video for the answers to your question on the matter of the "People of the Book." There were SOME Christians who practiced monotheism and prayed only to the One God and included none of that trinity nonsense, and then there were the majority of the Christians most of whom were pagan converts who included pagan beliefs in their versions of the teachings of Christ.
Great answer!
HazardExtreme 5 months ago
I don't know where you get your numbers from, however, people are free to learn about the Quaran, Buda, and other religius leaders, and then make a desicion, how ever in the Arabic countries their own citicents don't have that God given freedom, to accept Him or reject Him. You shoul talk the truth about waht the Quaran say in the USA, end let the Biblie to be study by people in the Muslims country freely, and see what happen.
elagentenumerouno 9 months ago
@elagentenumerouno why you want the Bible be studied freely in moslim countrys?
if u look at background of us(moslims) so you will find us that we were christians or jews or hindus or bhudist etc, before we see the truth(Islam) & accept it. its mean we came out of experience of other religions & when we found its false & it cant fulfill needs of people, then we left it & accepted path of God. so why you want us return to the false we came out of from it?!! :)
theProudMoslim 9 months ago
@theProudMoslim Because people should have the right to decide. Not to be forced to be Muslim. Americans are so horrible right? Why, because we allow our people to choose what to believe? Ridiculous.
dkparamore1 8 months ago
@dkparamore1 yes people should have the right to accept what they want,& we accepted Islam & left false religions by our OWN CHOICES,so its mean we will not return to it again,& we dont have to waist our times to read or study false books(which we already left it),we have to read & study what God told us & its in his revelation(Quran),& BTW what U want me study in the Bible? 1st let the Christians church's fathers be agree in one copy of Bible & in numbers of books then come 2me & ask 2read it!!
theProudMoslim 8 months ago
@theProudMoslim I don't know what lies you have been told about Christianity, but we only have ONE Bible, and the Bible is the ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD! If you had left Christianity then you would have known that, probably because you are from a country where you would be killed for reading about Christianity.
dkparamore1 8 months ago
@dkparamore1 I havent told any lie about Christianity!!!
the Bible of Catholic Church & east Orthodox have 73 books, & the Bible of Protestants have just 66 books, & Bible of Ethiopian Orthodox have 81 books, & Bible of East European Orthodox have 87 books,Plus the different versions of the Bible like KJV, & SVD & RSV & NIV............. and all these versions are different than others, & RSV mean (revised standard version) so will words of God need any revision ?!!!
so what U call this?
theProudMoslim 8 months ago
@dkparamore1 continue........
and please before say anything about my country so visit it 1st look ate the people then talk..........
if I would be killed if read about Christianity then I would not have online bibles web sites coming in my house with other christian sites and Anti Islamic sites as well..........
theProudMoslim 8 months ago
@theProudMoslim My answer is: Other Muslims have mention the same to me before, it's what most of you have being taut before, and the answer it's simple and logical; The Bible have never being prove to be false, other religion and teaching has being. When some Muslims learn what God say in the Bible, and pray to God for the truth, they see the amazing difference. God has being calling you to come to His arms.
elagentenumerouno 5 months ago
@elagentenumerouno we were in the wrong path, and God has guided us to His path(Islam)
so we are his worshipers and followers.......
and if you want me to prove that the bible it self prove that it is fals then this limited place of the comments.
but the clear & simple point is that there is many books of the bible and every sect has its own numbers of the books of the bible, so till U cant diside which is true and dont agree on the numbers of the books then cant say it is from God
theProudMoslim 5 months ago
Quran:
(Surah-2-the cow-vs-211)
Ask the Israelites how many a clear sign have we given them; and whoever changes favor of Allah after it has come to him, then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
Quran:
(Surah-2-the cow-vs-216)
Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
bibleresponse 11 months ago
Quran:
(Surah-2-the cow-vs-216)
Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
bibleresponse 11 months ago
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tigersforchrist 11 months ago
Especially if he was getting his information straight from "God Himself"? pluralMuhammad had obviously heard some Bible stories, but he seems to have got them confused and mixed up when it came out in his prophetic utterances. It is quite apparent that the Qu'ran is simply the product of hearsay and imperfect editing from aity of traditions then known to Muhammad.
111dfdf 1 year ago
If the Qur'an is a true miracle of God - why is it so filled with historical, scientific and other errors, including simple math? Wouldn't we expect an all-knowing Allah to be better student of history, science and math?
111dfdf 1 year ago
@111dfdf
And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers besides God if you [doubts] are true (2:23) Have they not reflected on this Qur'an? Surely if it were from other than God, they would find in it many a contradictions (4:48)
You cannot read the Qur'an in English and point out the err0ors; learn Arabic first and then take up the challenges in the Qur'an.
AdorIslam 1 year ago
@111dfdf Obviously someone who does cross reference anything that is heard from among his own camp. Just ridiculousness of your statements is nauseating. Please refer to Zakir Naik on this subject of YouTube that answers your so called allegations against the Qur'an; doing so may even turn to towards the Qur'an.
mo98183 11 months ago
The Koran teaches that the world is flat. This doctrine is believed by Islamic scholars even today. The Bible revealed that the earth is round in Isaiah 40:22. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth".
111dfdf 1 year ago
@111dfdf
Nowhere in the Qur'an earth is mentioned as flat, why not show us the word in Arabic that means flat?
AdorIslam 1 year ago
@AdorIslam
How about "rolled out like a carpet"? Or, does it not say that when tranlstated into English?
MegaBoxer77 11 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
These expressions like ''rolled out like a carpet'' , it is important to have an understanding of classical Arabic rhetoric, the meanings and expressions used. For example in Arabic another way of saying a lady is beatiful is saying there is space between her earlobes and her neck, implying she has a long slender neck, meaning she is beatiful. One of the pre requisites to even begin trying to understand the Quran is to study pre Islamic poetry, before that, the 13 sciences of Arabi
TheKap1an 11 months ago
@TheKap1an
And "sperm is formed between the ribs and back-bone" means "testies"?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Nope, the primary meaning of the word 'sulb' is loins, one of its meanings is also backbone, go check practically every classical Arabic dictionary and see how it was understood then. What your doing is just latching onto a few translations, with absolutely no knowledge of classical Arabic, if you dont know, then just ask, simple.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
Does sulb also mean ribs? If not, how come it says ribs in so many translations?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
086.007
YUSUFALI: Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:
PICKTHAL: That issued from between the loins and ribs.
SHAKIR: Coming from between the back and the ribs.
Ribs is mentioned three times, loins is mentioned once. But, it means loins, NOT backbone, true?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Doesnt matter if it was said a million times , doesnt make something more correct, if thats your logic, then either Christianity or Islam is DEFINITELY true, IF your going by numbers.
Im not going to keep on replying, Ill cut is short, give you this link, it gives you a few dictionaries at the bottom, and you can research other dictionaries as well, both classic and modern.
linguisticmiracle(dot)com/sulb.html
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
Thanks. Oh, and this site will be true and not taqqiya?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Yeah dont worry about taqqiya, its not a shia website, they give you the dictionaries so you can go check for yourself if you dont trust the actual website.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
How come only the Shiites are allowed to lie, according to the Sunnis? Is it because the Shia believe Muhammad was right when he said "war is deceit" and Sunnis DON'T believe that?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Now your getting into war, which is something completely different to the concept of taqqiya. Anyway, I gave you the link with the dictionaries, because you probably dont trust me, go read them and correct yourself.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
True. They are different. But, isn't taqqiya used in war?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
''But, isn't taqqiya used in war?'
That whole question doesnt make sense, I dont think you actually understand the meaning and the actual etymology of the word taqqiya, if you did you would not have asked that question. Taqqiya has absolutely nothing to do with the rules of war..........
Back to the topic, did you check any of the dictionaries?
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
So what is taqqiya then?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
We can talk about that later, or you can send me a personal message, I didnt come here to debate issues with you, your on a completely different topic.
Did you check any of the dictionaries?
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
I don't have to. I'll take your word that it means loins. That sperm is formed between the loins and the ribs.
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
Comment removed
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
'That sperm is formed between the loins and the ribs.'
Going to have to correct you again, though not as major as the first, the verse your referring to doesnt say formed anywhere, it says issued, proceeding.
And seeming you take my word for it, and the fact that Ive given you the sources with dictionaries ( and I can give you more), if your not the type of defiant person that doesnt accept anything that goes against their view, then you shouldnt say this anymore.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
It "proceeds from the loins and ribs"? The word "penis" couldn't be mentioned? By the way, according to the Hadith, it sounds like Muhammad believed women didn't have eggs, but, sperm as well, and, if she "discharged first" before her mate, the child would be a girl. Do you believe that?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Theres many different types of hadith, all on different levels of authenticity, and things that may seem contradictory to what we now know, its not that important. Im not here to discuss hadith with you, I can refer you to a scholar online if your really looking for expert answers.
Once again, going to have to correct you again........ it doesnt say ''That proceeds from the loins and ribs'', it says '''That issued / proceeds from between the loins and ribs''.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
And you feel that means the penis? By the way. You say there are many types of hadith on all levels of authenticity. Do you believe in all the "sahih" Hadiths, or, do you see many of them as "weak and fabricated"?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
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@MegaBoxer77
''And you feel that means the penis?''
No theres a difference between something proceeding FROM the loins and ribs, and a difference BETWEEN, I put the caps to make it clear, this has been going on for too long, such a basic thing.
'' Do you believe in all the "sahih" Hadiths'
I dont think you know, theres different levels of sahih hadiths aswell, its not just a black and white ''authentic, and weak'' its a deep topic that ones needs to study.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
Oh, so even a SAHIH hadith can be weak and fabricated? If so, how can you tell an authentitic sahih from a fabricated Hadith? Muhammad saying the sun asking permission to rise again would be fabricated for certain, wouldn't you think? And, having virgins with mile wide seats (patootis) in Jennah HAS to be fabricated as well, or, performing ablution with "clean soil" has to be one also, true? But, I've noticed that Muslims like to quote the sahih hadith about the Jew's cover being blown by
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
the rock he hides behind so the "slave of Allah" can come and kill him, and THAT hadith is quoted a LOT, so, that WOULDN'T be fabricated, don't you think?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
I just checked your channel, and I dont know you personally but you seem pretty immature for an adult. In one of the videos where you pretend to speak as a so called muslim changing the camera and accent etc, wow, extremely childish. And ''your patooti in the air '', you do realise in your own book, Jesus also prayed like that? The Jews were also commanded to pray like that by God according to your belief?
Im not replying anymore after seeing some childish videos.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
Muslims think they prostrate like Jesus did in the garden, but, prostration means to lie flat on the ground or floor. Muslims DON'T lie flat on the ground or floor and are NOT in prostration. They are in more of a bow. And, due to the way their knees are bent with nose on floor/ground, the term "patooti in the air" fits the so called "prostration", which, again, they NEVER do during salat. So, call me immature all you want. The term "patooti in the air" fits salat like a glove.
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Your whole argument that Jesus did NOT prostrate like us muslims do is COMPLETELY destroyed by the fact that the Hebrew word (and ancient Greek) in the Bible describing Jesus's action is putting the head on the floor. I can refer you to some well known classical dictionaries if you want about ancient Hebrew, semitic languages, and a few good ancient Greek ones. I like dictionaries, and theyre usefull---as you can see.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
Oh, I'll take your word that he put his head on the floor (more like ground), because that WOULD be a part of being prostrate when he was in the garden that night. However, WHERE does it say in the Injeel that Jesus' knees were bent, forcing his patooti up in the air like Muslims when worshipping, I mean, facing the black stone in the big, black, dark cube?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
The word used for the prostration is used for the same action that muslims do when praying. The Jews also pray like that. Lying on the ground has a completely different word in BOTH ancient Hebrew and Greek.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
Are there any pictures on the internet with Jews putting their patootis in the air like Muslims? I thought Jews, when praying, rock back and forth? But, if not, show where they are bowed down and facing the Whailing Wall with their patootis in the air like a Muslim doing salat.
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
1. The injeel we dont have today in its complete form. That was meant for a specific time and a specific people, not you.
2. Jewish prayer : youtube(dot)com/watch?v=0aHWASyMjwg
3. Of course there's different levels of sahih hadith, and there are some that are rejected by the tradition, I dont think you realise, its a deep topic, and one needs years of study, scholars have studied it for years, Im not replying to any of your sayings about hadith, because you know nothing about it.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
1. The injeel we dont have today in its complete form. That was meant for a specific time and a specific people, not you.
Mega: Where does it say that in the Quran?
2. Jewish prayer : youtube(dot)com/watch?v=0aHWASyMjwg
Mega: I typed that into my web browser and it didn't come up.
3. Of course there's different levels of sahih hadith, and there are some that are rejected by the tradition,
Mega: So, sahih DOESN'T mean " the correct" AFTER all!?!?!? When did that happen?
5678567856 9 months ago
TheKap1an: and there are some that are rejected by the tradition, I dont think you realise, its a deep topic, and one needs years of study,
Mega: And find out that "the correct" (for "sahih) DOESN'T mean the correct in some cases?
The Kap: scholars have studied it for years, Im not replying to any of your sayings about hadith, because you know nothing about it.
Mega: Well...why do you think one asks questions?
5678567856 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Hang on, you find Islamic beliefs absurd? Youve pointed out hadith which we dont even believe to the the word of God,and like I said hadith is a deep topic, now, let me ask you, since your a Christian that believes the Bible IS the infallible inspired word of God:
You believe plants came before the sun?(heard of photosynthesis?)
You believe in 7 headed dragons?
6000 -10,000 year old earth?
Global flood at the time there were world civilisations prospering like Egypt?
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
oh yeah, we dont have the injeel intact.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
@TheKap1an
If not, how come in Quran 5:68 it tells Christians they have NO ground to stand upon UNLESS they "stand firm upon the Injeel"? Why stand firm upon something incomplete?
MegaBoxer77 9 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
You believe when female babies are born, theyre double the period unclean than that of males?
You believe Prophets of GOD commit adultery ( like David,who PLANS it),or become naked drunks (Noah) and more?
You believe in talking serpents?
You believe the earth had an evening and a day BEFORE it had an orbit?
You believe the earth came BEFORE the sun?
I can go on,but Id like to see what youve got to say,seeming these are in what you believe to be the word of God, guide for humanity.
TheKap1an 9 months ago
Kap: Hang on, you find Islamic beliefs absurd?
Mega: You mean the devil DOES sleep in your nose at night? And the sun DOES "ask permission to rise again"?
Kap: Youve pointed out hadith which we dont even believe to the the word of God,
Mega: What percent of the Hadith DO you believe in?
Kap: and like I said hadith is a deep topic,
Mega: In what way do you mean "deep"?
Kap: now, let me ask you, since your a Christian that believes the Bible IS the infallible inspired word of God
5678567856 9 months ago
Kap: ....word of God:
Mega: Well, the Quran pretty much says the same thing when it says the Quran is a "confirmation of that which went before it" and has surah 5:68 and 10:94, to name a few.
Kap: You believe plants came before the sun?(heard of photosynthesis?)
Mega: The Quran says the same thing, so, I guess Allah didn't hear of it either, true? Want the surah and verse?
kap: You believe in 7 headed dragons?
Mega: Do you believe in 99 headed dragons and a scorpion to to torment
5678567856 9 months ago
Mega: ...to torment you in the grave?
Kap: 6000 -10,000 year old earth?
Mega: Did you know that the Quran says the earth was created first, then says Allah "turned his attention to the sky, which was smoke"?
Kap: Global flood at the time there were world civilisations prospering like Egypt?
Mega: What about Quran 36:40-43? Or, is that NOT talking about Noah? Oh, and read 36:40-43. Sounds like the sun and move travel in vessels (arks) similar to "their offspring Noah".
5678567856 9 months ago
Kap: You believe when female babies are born, theyre double the period unclean than that of males?
Mega: If you read the Hadith, sounds like the urine of females is unclean, but, not the males. Want that saying?
Kap: You believe Prophets of GOD commit adultery ( like David,who PLANS it),or become naked drunks (Noah) and more?
Mega: I bet you DON'T believe Mr. (pbuh) married a six year old, true? And, yes, I believe Noah got drunk because the Torah (which the Quran says is "both guidanc
5678567856 9 months ago
Mega: ...the Torah (which the Quran says is "both guidance and light") SAYS Noah got drunk.
Kap: You believe in talking serpents?
Mega: Do you believe in talking donkys and ants? Or, do you not believe in the Hadith AT all? Wait, the talking ants...gee, where is THAT located? Want to guess?
Kap: You believe the earth had an evening and a day BEFORE it had an orbit?
Mega: How do you not know it wasn't rotating infront of some other light sourse? But, hey, the Quran says
5678567856 9 months ago
Mega: But, hey, the Quran says it's a confirmation and reminder OF the Torah, so, you have to believe that also, true?
Kap: You believe the earth came BEFORE the sun?
Mega: Do you believe the earth came BEFORE the sky...which was smoke after Allah finished the earth then turned his attention to the sky?
Kap: I can go on,
Mega: But, you won't, because you're afraid you will prove the Quran true when it says it's a "confirmation and reminder of that which went before it" (i.e. The Bible)?
5678567856 9 months ago
Mega: ... (i.e. The Bible)? Right?
Kap: but Id like to see what youve got to say,seeming these are in what you believe to be the word of God, guide for humanity.
Mega: Are you a Muslim, or, an atheist? If what you have presented destroys the credibility of the Bible, then HOW, pray tell, can you have faith enough in Islam to pull out a prayer rug five times a day, EVERY day, and stick your patooti up in the air while thinking you AREN'T worshipping the big, black cube in the desert?
5678567856 9 months ago
TheKap1an: You believe when female babies are born, theyre double the period unclean than that of males?
Mega: If the "Book" says so, then it must be true in some way. Did you know that the urine of a female is unclean according to Muhammad? Sounds like you'd agree with this from the "Book" if the "Book" has said such thing.
TheKap1an: You believe Prophets of GOD commit adultery ( like David,who PLANS it),or become naked drunks (Noah) and more?
Mega: Why not? Mr. (pbuh) Screwed a 6
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
...I mean, MARRIED a 6 year old, and screwed her when she was 9.
TheKap: You believe in talking serpents?
Mega: According to the Quran, YOU should believe in talking serpents as well, being that the Quran says the Torah (which has the talking serpent), says the Torah is not only LIKE the Quran, but, is "both guidance and light", and is "Allah's words" to the point where a Jew has NO ground to stand upon unLESS he stands firm upon the Torah (see Quran 5:68).
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
@TheKap1an: You believe the earth had an evening and a day BEFORE it had an orbit?
Mega: If YOU don't believe that, then you are going against the Quran, because the Quran, again, says the Torah is "Allah's words", and, YOU are to believe ALL the words of Allah. Did you know the Quran says it "confirms 'whatever scripture was before it'"? So, you BETTER believe the earth had an evening and a day beFORE it had an orbit.
Kap: You believe the earth came BEFORE the sun?
Mega: Do you? Y
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
If you read the Quran, you BETTER believe the earth came before the the sun. As a matter of fact, you have to believe that the earth was without a sun for about four thousand years, being that one day, to Allah, is a thousand years of our reconning, meaning that, plants on earth were without a sun for four thousand years before Allah turned his attention to the sky, "which was then smoke".
TheKap: I can go on,but Id like to see what youve got to say,seeming these are in what
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
TheKap: ... you believe to be the word of God, guide for humanity.
Mega: Which YOU have to believe, being that the Quran says it's a confirmation of. Not only a confirmation of, but, the Book is something YOU, a Muslim, have to believe is also Allah's words. By the way, what do you think of the Quran saying it confirms whatEVER scripture came before it? And, that Christians and Jews are to "judge" what is in the Quran with the "Book" (Bible)? So, YOu are to believe the Bible as well.
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
And no, the word Bible is NOWHERE in the Quran, stop putting your own words into it, the Bible is a bunch of books and letters, we believe in the GOSPEL of Jesus,and the Quran came to CONFIRM what came before and act as the CRITERION to judge what's wrong and right between former scripture, stop cherry picking. So we dont believe Prophet David is an adulterer,or Lot had sex with his daughters,or Noah is a drunk, like you believe.
TheKap1an 7 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
Oh, cherry picking again, something a lot of Christians do when it comes to the Quran. Stop taking SOME of the Quran and ignoring the rest, the Quran came as a criterion to JUDGE what is true and what is not between former scriptures, nowhere does it say the past scriptures are in their perfect form, it criticizes it in places, rejects it, and accepts what truth it has left in it in other places, so stop cherry picking. So no,we dont believe the earth came before the sun, but youdo
TheKap1an 7 months ago
TtheKap1an: Oh, cherry picking again, something a lot of Christians do when it comes to the Quran.
Mega: Muslims don't cherry pick with the "Book" (i.e. the Bible)?
TheKap: Stop taking SOME of the Quran and ignoring the rest,
Mega: Ignoring what part?
TheKap: the Quran came as a criterion to JUDGE what is true and what is not between former scriptures,
Mega: Even though it says it confirms "whatever scritpures that came before it" (see Quran 5:48)? In Quran 5:47, it tells People of
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
(continued)...In Quran 5:47, it tells People of the Gospel (Christians), to "judge what Allah hath revealed therein." HOW can Christians judge therein IF the Bible is corrupted?
TheKap: nowhere does it say the past scriptures are in their perfect form,
Mega: No, the Quran just has the Quran saying it "confirms and reminds before Scriptures", has Quran 5:68 telling People of the Book to "stand firm upon" Torah and Injeel" (i.e. The Bible), and, tells YOU, a Muslim, to come to me FOR my r
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
Mega: (continued)...to come to me for my reading "before Scriptures" (Bible), IF you are in doubt about the Quran (see Quran 10:94).
TheKap: it criticizes it in places, rejects it, and accepts what truth it has left in it in other places,
Mega: IF what you say is true (and not taqqiya), can you explain why the Quran says it's confirmation of that which went before it, and why there is Quran 5:68 and 10:94?
TheKap: so stop cherry picking.
Mega: You mean pointing out inconsistencies in th
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
Mega: (cont): You mean by pointing out inconsistencies in the "clear signs handed down".
TheKap: So no,we dont believe the earth came before the sun, but youdo
Mega: No, you just believe that before the smokey sky was turned into stars, the earth existed for four thousand years without stars being that "one day to Allah is a thousand years of your reconning." Want that scripture?
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
TheKap: And no, the word Bible is NOWHERE in the Quran,
Mega: True, it's just called "Before Scriptures", "previous Scriptures", "Torah", "Injeel", "Psalms", "The Book" (which makes PEOPLE of the Book...Jews and Christians).
TheKap: stop putting your own words into it,
Mega: You mean my questions.
TheKap: the Bible is a bunch of books and letters,
Mega: How does that make the Bible NOT the "Word of God"?
TheKap: we believe in the GOSPEL of Jesus,
Mega: Which is located WHERE--IF
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
TheKap: we believe in the GOSPEL of Jesus,
Mega: Which is located... WHERE... so I can obey Quran 5:68 IF the Gospel of Jesus ISN'T the New Testament part of the "Book" (i.e. The Bible)?
TheKap: and the Quran came to CONFIRM what came before and act as the CRITERION to judge what's wrong and right between former scripture,
Mega: How can that be when there is Quran 5:48 that says the Quran "confirms WHATEVER scripture that came before it"?
TheKap: stop cherry picking.
Mega: How am I?
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
Mega: How am I cherry picking? Or, is asking questions about the Quran "cherry picking" to you?
TheKap: So we dont believe Prophet David is an adulterer,
Mega: Even though the "Book" says he was? Muhammad screwed a 9 year old, yet, you feel that is NOT a problem like adultery?
TheKap: or Lot had sex with his daughters,or Noah is a drunk, like you believe.
Mega: ONLY because the Torah (which Quran 5:68 tells Jews to "stand firm upon", and the Quran says is LIKE the Quran and is"both
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
@MegaBoxer77 "both guidance and light". Want that scripture?
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
@MegaBoxer77
oh my, its a confirmation of what TRUTH is left in past scripture, stop just taking ONE verse and ignoring the entire Qurans approach to past revelation, the Quran confirms what is true, and REJECTS what is false, THATS the Qurans apporach. Stop latching onto 2 verses and ignoring the entire rest of the Quran, typical really, just taking what fits your point of view.
TheKap1an 7 months ago
TheKap: oh my, its a confirmation of what TRUTH is left in past scripture,
Mega: Where does it say in the "clear signs handed down" that the Quran only confirms what is left in past scriptures? But IF that is the case, can you please explain Quran 5:68, 10:94, and scriptures from the Quran that say Allah's words can't be changed nor altered? Can you explain how a Person of the Book is to JUDGE between the Quran and the Bible IF the Bible (Book), is corrupted? HOW can a Person of the Book
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
Mega: (contin.) Can you explain how a Person of the Book is to JUDGE between the Quran and the Bible IF the Bible (Book), is corrupted? HOW can a Person of the Book BE a judge? Want that scripture?
TheKap: stop just taking ONE verse and ignoring the entire Qurans approach to past revelation,
Mega: JUST one verse? GUESS how many verses there are I could ask you on considering this "confirmation" stuff the Quran talks of that it does with the Bible? Want a guess?
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
TheKap: the Quran confirms what is true, and REJECTS what is false,
Mega: That's what it says, yet, it has Quran 5:68 telling People of the Book to STAND upon something that says Jesus not only died on the cross for your sins, and is the "Son of God", but, IS God with John 1:1. Why stand upon ANYthing that has "shirk", which, according to Islam, is the WORST of sins? WHY obey Quran 10:94 IF the Bible is NOT the "Book" (which makes People of the Book)? HOW come you can NEVER answer me?
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
How am I to "judge therein" (Quran 5:47), IF the "Book" (Bible), is corrupted? Again, HOW come you can NEVER anser me? Want to guess?
TheKap: THATS the Qurans apporach.
Mega: Not so. NOT so, and, the stuff I just posted PROVES it as anyone with an open mind here can clearly see here..
TheKap: Stop latching onto 2 verses and ignoring the entire rest of the Quran,
Mega: Oh, so now there we are up TWO verses, not just one. Well, that's better. When you get up to around 20 I'll think
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
...won't think you are taqqiya-ing so much.
TheKap: typical really, just taking what fits your point of view.
Mega: A pretty strong point of view since you can never answer me on why I should obey Quran 5:68 and 5:47. I mean HOW can I "judge therin" IF the Bible is corrupted? Again, can you make the "clear signs handed down" more clear here?
MegaBoxer77 7 months ago
@111dfdf The earth is not circle, it is spherical. In the fact, the Qur'an describes the earth as being egg shaped, and describing the night and day as "coiling" towards each other.
If you stand on a high mountain and look at the earth, it appears as a circle.
mo98183 11 months ago
Shorosh is uneducated,his motives were to fool both Muslims&Christians.
his idea was to become famous&get rich.the truth is he doesn't deserve a chance to debate with Muslims scholars.he was nurturing from this debates.he is a criminal felony & he got arrested & serving time in prison. he lied to the Christians& the Muslims. just watch all his debates! he didn't had any proof! he presented nothing but lies&criticizing Islam.nowadays that's the best way to get rich&famous then pay the price!
medsheikh 1 year ago
@Anish Sorrosh is clearly the winner!!!
111dfdf 1 year ago
@FreedomFighterReturn Asalam Ualeykum, Brother did he really do this? lol what a clown how long is that fool serving?
Fight040Allah 1 year ago
"Say: "People of the Book! Come to a proposition which is the same for us and you - that we should worship none but God and not associate any partners with Him and not take one another as lords besides God." (Qur'an, 3:64)
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
People of the book are the Jews [Jews and Christians] who were sent Prophets before, however many of them had strayed from the path after the Prophets were gone:
Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah(on the other hand)will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude. 3:144
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
Is it, or, is it not, the Bible that Jews and Christians have in their possession?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
IF the "Book" is NOT the Bible, then HOW do Muslims know the Quran is talking about the Bible when the Quran says Muhammad is IN the Book?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
The BOOK was the book "scriptures" given to the Prophets before the Qur'an was revealed. The Prophets didnt walk around with the "gospels of John or Luke", they were given DIVINE scripture of which some of it remains intact and some of it remains lost forever. Hence why the Qur'an was revealed as the FINAL revelation to connect the dots of what was left out of the bible.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
And, yet, the Quran talks of some "Book" as if it's as common as the Bible that makes Jews and Christians. And, yet, Muslims say Muhammad is IN the Bible. Are they wrong to SAY Muhammad is in the Bible IF the Bible is NOT the Book? Are they, or, are they not?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Oh, guess who is passing a kidney stone right now? Me. I think I'll see if I can pass it without damage. It feels like what a knife might feel coming out of my kidney. By the way, if you have such a problem, try drinking lemon juice. I was able to beat it that way before, but, from the pain I'm experiencing now, I bet it won't work. Oh well. Anyway, good night.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@Propaine187
In otherwords, become Muslim. But, again, WHO are the "People of the Book" and, WHAT is the "Book" that makes PEOPLE of the Book IF the Book ISN'T the Bible? WHAT is that "Book"?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
"... There is a community among the People of the Book who are upright. They recite God's signs throughout the night, and they prostrate. They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and compete in doing good. They are among the righteous. You will not be denied the reward for any good thing you do. God knows those who guard against evil." (Qur'an, 3:113-115)
Propaine187 1 year ago
When the Glorious Qur'an intends to reprimand the People of the Book for their deviation, it addresses them by the title: [those who have been given a portion of the Book] , as a reference to their negligence of some of what Allah the Almighty has revealed.
When the Qur'an depicts the People of the Book as “believers” it is referring to those who believed in the teachings of the Prophet of their time as long as there were no other Prophets sent by Allah during their lifetime.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
Why couldn't the "clear signs handed down" just said, "there are People of the Book who are Muslims"? But, that's besides the point, WHO are the "People of the Book" that AREN'T Muslims, and, WHAT is the "Book" that MAKES "People of the Book"? Can you explain that IF People of the Book AREN'T Jews and Christians?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way - except in the case of those of them who do wrong - saying, "We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him." (Qur'an, 29:46)
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
Let's put aside the ones who are Muslims, and focus on those who are of the "Book". WHAT is that "Book" that makes PEOPLE of the Book? What is it, please?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
This should help your understanding of the "people of the book":
Among the People of the Book there are some who believe in God and in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down to them, and who are humble before God. They do not sell God's signs for a paltry price. Such people will have their reward with their Lord. And God is swift at reckoning. (Qur'an, 3:199)
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
And WHAT is the "Book" IF it's not the Bible? For it's NOT the Quran, because it comes BEFORE it. So, again, WHAT is the "Book"?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
the bible didnt succed it's 1 true mission The Children of Israel, obviously because if it had suceeded then why was Jesus on the cross therefore it failed it's mission because the people didnt accept Jesus's message
amirzlakers 1 year ago
why is the vid lag? >.< But nice answer.
ckaey91 1 year ago
SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed,"
Question. Did ANY of you see "what remains in tact" in this scripture? Is this not taqqiya in the open from Jamal?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
But, again, HOW can Christians and Jews JUDGE if the Bible is corrupted?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 EVERYTHING from day 0 to last day is written in a preserved tabled (Quran 85:22), this is what is meant by scriptures or what is written before the Quran. The revelations (revealed through Gabriel or in the case of Moses, directly by God) did not come down in a printed form (nor did the Quran), and is what is meant by "before scriptures" and "what was revealed before you" O Mohammed (PBUH).
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06
Are you sure? HOW can you believe the "messengers" (plural), if that which was handed down to them has been corrupted whether or not their words are recorded on a heavenly tablet or not? IF you are right, where in the Quran does it say to believe ONLY what is on the heavenly tablet and NOT which was handed down? Do you get what you believe it means by reading surah 4:136?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 You are not making any sense. How do you know???? Who reveals it? God. Are you saying God doesn't know? The Quran is the word of God unchanged (preserved). Same one we use toda worldwide as the one attested by Mohammed (PBUH). In Quran the test of previous scriptures: If verses contradict the Quran, they have been corrupted. All the prophets came with the same message: 1 God, even Jesus (Matt. 12:29)
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06
So, are the words of Allah handed down corrupted now, or, are they not? When you say, "Same one we use toda worldwide as the one attested by", well, doesn't that mean the Quran is not lying when it says Allah's handed down words AREN'T corrupted? That one CAN "stand firm upon the Torah and Injeel", CAN go to those who have read the "before Scriptures" if one is in doubt about the Quran (10:94)? That there IS "confirmation and reminding"? One CAN obey 4:136?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 You are not following this. The Bible we have today, the Torah we have today are not the same as revealed to Moses and Jesus (PBUH). Moses never wrote the Books attributed to him, Jesus never wrote the Gospels. Neither attested to current scriptures to be authentic. See the difference. The Quran also warns those who change words of God to profit from it. So, the final revelation, the Quran, unchanged as Allah promised "we descended it and we will protect it". Find one contradiction
solitaire06 1 year ago
005.048
YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee."
PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever (whatever?) Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed,"
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors."
How can "Person of the Book" (Jews and Christians), JUDGE if the Bible is corrupted?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
"005.047
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
He says the Quran says to NOT accept the Bible, yet, the Quran tells Persons of the Book (Bible), to stand firm upon the Torah and Injil (which help make up the "Book").
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
Hello. I'm a 'Person of The Book', obeying the command of Quran 5:68, which tells me that I have NO ground to stand upon, unless I stand firm upon the Torah and Injil (BIBLE, actually), and, I am waiting for a Muslim to come to me IF that Muslim is in doubt about the Quran, because Quran 10:94 tells Muhammad (who is to be followed by Muslims), to GO to those who have read the 'before Scriptures" (i.e. Bible), if HE was in doubt about the Quran. Oh, and another thing, not only is the---
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
-- not only is the Bible supposed to be Allah's words according to the Quran, but, according to the Quran, which calls itself the "clear signs handed down", Allah's words CAN'T be changed or altered, so, thus, the Quran isn't lying when it says it a 'confirmation and reminder of that which went before it' (i.e. The Bible again)."
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 Shows how much you understand even when it is said in English.
Bible is written by 40 or more anonymous authors. The word Bible does not exist in the Bible. What the Quran refers to when it says Injeel and Torah, are the original revelations to Moses and Jesus (PBUT). Notice: not printed forms.
Bible has been corrupted by authors who had their own agendas (Paul and John). Quran is JUST words of God, nothing else. Written bible, some words of God, historians, pornographers (Eze.23)
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06
IF what you are saying is true, shouldn't Quran 2:106 kicked in to abrogate all those Quranic scriptures that talk of the Quran being a "confirmation and reminder of that which went before it" (The Bible)? IF it's not the Bible, then WHAT are the "before Scriptures"? They must have been as common as the Bible were in the time of the "clear signs handed down" because the ONLY Bible the Christians and Jews stood firm upon (5:68), was the "Book", the Bible. IF it's NOT the Bible..
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
IF it's not the Bible, well, WHAT is the "Book" that makes "People of the Book"? And WHO were these people one was to go go according to Quran 10:94 IF one was in doubt about the Quran? By the way, HOW can one obey 4:136 IF the "books" ISN'T the Bible? HOW can you believe in ALL that the messengers (plural) were sent IF the Bible is corrupted? The "Book" is supposed to be Allah's words, IF it IS the Bible, HOW could Allah's words become corrupted?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 Need to ask Muslim scholars rather than Christians to get the truth.
Quran 2:106: Allah in Quran does not do idle chit-chat when telling Mohammed (PBUH) any story (straight to the point). When people ask Mohammed (PBUH) Qs which require previous information revealed to be explained further (the new information which is fuller supercedes the old). That is the context of 2:106.
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06
Are you sure? What does "abrogation" mean to you?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 Abrogation has several meaning. The main one here for this verse is Annul (cancel). Remember, the Quran was revealed over nearly 23 years, as things happened verses were revealed to Mohammed (PBUH). So, there were times where previous matters told as passing had to explained in detail. Therefore, the old verses (already revealed and could have been thrown, but Quran is true as revealed) were annulled or cancelled. Government laws are same, they change, but we don't question them.
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06
IF the Quran is "preserved on a tablet in heaven", and, there is changing going on with the Quran that is handed down", which one is one to believe? The one that is in Heaven, or, the one that is changing in the time of Muhammad,only?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 Right. The preserved tablet, as mentioned before, has EVERYTHING on it that will happen from day 0 to final day, not just the Quran on it. Ok so far? Right, so that means it will contain Everything, even if something started as red but became green. However, the Quran was not written in one sitting, so nothing had to be changed (as in crossed out and new ). Verses were updated with more info.
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06 Sol: You are not following this. The Bible we have today, the Torah we have today are not the same as revealed to Moses and Jesus (PBUH).
Mega: If so, HOW can a Person of the Book JUDGE between their Bible and the Quran like Quran 5:47 TELLS them do? WHY "stand firm" (5:68) IF there is corruption in the Bible? But, again, HOW can one "stand firm upon" something corrupted AND judge (5:47) IF the Bible or "Book" is corrupted?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
Sol: Moses never wrote the Books attributed to him, Jesus never wrote the Gospels.
Mega: Then why mention anything DEALING with Torahs and Injeels? Does that sound like "clear signs"...to...you? Be truthful now, please.
Sol: Neither attested to current scriptures to be authentic.
Mega: "Quran 5:47"? Also, talk of "confirmation and reminding of that which went beFORE it"?
Sol: See the difference.
Mega: No.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
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@MegaBoxer77
Sol: The Quran also warns those who change words of God to profit from it.
Mega: Right. But, how does that mean ALL of Allah's before Scriptures "books, word", have been changed and altered?
Sol: So, the final revelation, the Quran, unchanged as Allah promised "we descended it and we will protect it". Find one contradiction
Mega: Oh, are you saying the Quran is the ONLY one that is protected? Then, can you explain Quran 4:136, please?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
Sol: Right. The preserved tablet, as mentioned before, has EVERYTHING on it that will happen from day 0 to final day, not just the Quran on it.
Mega: NOT just the Quran on it? So, if the Bible is corrupted, WHY even mention a "preserved tablet" to show the Quran isn't corrupted? IF BOTH are on a "preserved tablet", yet, the Bible is corrupted, who CARES if there is a "preserved tablet"? It doesn't mean anything, does it not?
Sol: Ok so far?
Mega: What do you think?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
Sol: Right, so that means it will contain Everything, even if something started as red but became green.
Mega: Which means to say the Quran or the Bible are on a "preserved tablet" means squat.
Sol: However, the Quran was not written in one sitting,
Mega: And, the Bible was?
SOl: so nothing had to be changed (as in crossed out and new ).
Mega: What about the six versions of the Quran that Uthman ordered burned due to differences and recorded in the Hadith?
Sol: Verses were....
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Sol: Verses were updated with more info.
Mega: And, that means?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 Right, for the last time. Take Bible. Jesus taught one God, keep commnadments, men voted differently in Nicea 325AD. They, by show of hand voted Jesus God and changed his teachings with Paul's. See what I mean, the original is not there. Now, 4:136 talks about the revelations before the corruption. Remember, the verses came down 1400 years ago.
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06
Quran: 2:42:
"And believe in that which I reveal, confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture), and be not first to disbelieve therein, and part not with My revelations for a trifling price, and keep your duty unto Me".
"Confirming that which ye possess already"? Sounds like the original WAS there in the time of the "clear signs handed down", or, WHY didn't Quran 2:106 kick in and say, "NO longer confirming"?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 Same way as Muslim judges between Quran and Bible. Since Quran is unchanged since revealed some 1400, the Quran is uncorrupted. It is the one that should be used as it is Universal. All prophets were sent to specific people with a limited and timed revelation. EG: Jesus (PBUH) sent to Israelites.
solitaire06 1 year ago
How can you obey 4:136?
"O ye who believe (Muslims)! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture (The Holy Bible) which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books (The Holy Bible), His Messengers (Jesus and the Injil), and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. "? HOW can you believe that IF the Bible is corrupted?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77 It does not refer to Holy Bible. As I said, the word bible is from the greek Biblos= Book. The word Bible is not in the Bible. The Bible was written by over 40 anonymous authors. The main teachings are from Paul (NT). 14 out of 27 NT Gospels are Paul's. Bible is opinion of anonymous authors about who Jesus was. This opinion is influenced by their human understanding, experiences, and political agendas. I have been fasting all day, I am going now to eat. Take care
solitaire06 1 year ago
@solitaire06
IF the Bible is NOT what the Quran is talking about, then what is the "Book" that makes "People of the Book", and WHAT is the point of Quran 4:136? WHAT are those "books" handed down to messengers (plural) of Allah you are to believe in so you won't be "far, far astray"?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Anyway, enjoy your break-fast.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Oh, one more thing, IF the Bible is NOT the "Book" that makes "People of the Book", then WHY do so many Muslims say Muhammad is IN the Bible? HOW do they know Muhammad is IN the Bible IF the Bible is NOT what the Quran is talking about?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Simple. The bible is truth mixed with falsehood. The truths in the bible [Old Testament] " praying to one God" conflict with the falsehoods "trinity, idolatry, women being the first sinners, etc." God, the only LORD you shall take, is made clear in the Old Testament, however Paul changes the idea of LORDSHIP being given to Jesus [a man]. The inner turmoil within the bible demonstrates how it cannot be the Divine Word of God.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
Sounds like you feel the Book "Bible" is corrupted. If so, then there are MANY scriptures in the "clear signs handed down" that are lies and contradictions. MANY of them.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Like what...proof please. If you want I'll show proof of bible corruption as well [its easy I have 60 pages worth].
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
And if those 60 pages are TRUE and NOT anti-Bible propoganda, well, what's that tell you about the Quran that says Allah's words can't be changed or altered? WHAT does that tell you about Quran 4:136, 5:68, and 10:94? HOW can Christians and Jews "JUDGE" what is in Bible with the Quran? HOW can the Quran be a "confirmation and reminder of that which went before it" IF the Bible is false?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Its funny, because Mr. Badawi answered this already in this very video. The Tawrat and the Injeel are lost. The BIBLE IS NOT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS. It is the Gospels of "john, mark, luke, and matthew" [and it's not even really written by those supposed authors]. The Tawrat has been altered to suit the Rabbi's selfish beliefs. The inclusion of the Talmud into Jewish practices has turned Judaism into a racist religion that looks down upon non-jews.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
IF the Tawrat and Injeel are lost, they had to be lost AFTER the writing of Quran 2:106, or, if not, HOW come there is Quran 5:68, 4:136 and 10:94? HOW can the Quran be a "confirmation" of the "Torah and Injil" IF those two have been corrupted? How? Again, IF they are corrupted, how come the abrogating scripture of 2:106 didn't kick in to say DON'T follow Quran 5:68, 4:136 and 10:94?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things ? [[002:106]
Nothing from the Revelations are forgotten EXCEPT in the case that the new revelation is going to be sent down to replace the OLD ONES i.e. Qur'an to replace tawrat and injeel.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
IF so, then WHY is there Quran 5:68, 4:136 and 10:94? By the way, I found some OTHER juicy ones today that would REALLY kick someone in the upraised patooti in prostration.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
Show me the juicy ones I want them. I'm writing a document on the missionary lies spread against Islam. You are helping me kind sir by giving me these proofs.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
Ok. But first, explain away the ones I've presented thus far, please.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
ALL of my bible verses are directly from the bible, and the bible contradicts itself I do not need to bring anything else to prove the bible wrong but history, science, and the bible itself.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
I've seen the "contradictions of the Bible", and, if you think they are contradictions, well, how can you believe in the Quran, then?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
The bible is Not God's word, it is the work of Paul [New Testament] and various Jewish rabbi's [Old Testament].
Contradictions:
Jesus cannot make up his mind:
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is NOT valid." [John 5:31]
But he says to the Pharisees later on:
“Jesus answered, ' EVEN IF I TESTIFY ON MY OWN BEHALF, my testimony IS VALID...” [John 8:14]
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
It could be that in the first, he was speaking as a man (the human part that can't do anything unless it be of the will of his Father), then, in the latter, he was speaking of the God part of himself when he CAN testify on his own behalf). This is like when he says, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good, only God." Here, since he WAS good, he was calling himself God.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
LOL. He was denying being God, because no one is WORTHY of being called GOOD BUT God, NOT JESUS OR ANYONE ELSE. HE SIMPLY CORRECTED THE DISCIPLE. He did not say I AM YOUR LORD....whereas the "GOD" of the bible in the OLD TESTAMENT CLEARLY MAKES IT KNOWN HE IS GOD:
For I AM the LORD, your God,..
[iSAIAH 41:13]
Why didnt Jesus ever make that statement ANYWHERE IF HE IS GOD.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
He had others say it for him. Mainly John and Paul. Remember, he COULD have used his powers in the desert to make stones into bread, and, in the process, he'd lose his humanity. But, he resisted the devil and suffered as a human. So he could possibly call himself "the Son of Man", even though he was also, "the Son of God".
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
No. If JEsus was the same God as the Old Testament God, he would have said so. He performed miracles, but so did Elijah, Elisha, Noah, Moses etc. It doesn't make him GOD that he could turn stones into bread. Elisha's BONES RESURRECTED A DEAD BODY MERELY BY TOUCHING IT. MOSES PARTED A WHOLE SEA. ELIJAH FLEW TO HEAVEN IN A WHIRLWIND ON A CHARIOT OF FIRE. Miracles don't make you God, it makes you OF God [sent by Him with signs].
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
True, miracles don't make you God, but, according to the Injil's Saint Paul, Jesus was "before all things, and by him do all things consist, both visible and invisible". That sounds MORE than just a miracle worker or prophet.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
The bible IS NOT the Injeel and Dr. Badawi already cleared that up. The Injeel was Jesus' teachings, the Word given to him from God. The Bible was not fully complete and distributed until a good 300-400 years AFTER the "death" of Jesus.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
IF the Injil is NOT the New Testament, then WHAT is the Injil the Quran talks of? I mean, IF you read the Quran, the Injil the Quran speaks of seems to be as common as the Torah and the Psalms. It seems to be as common as the Bible, well, the "Book" that makes PEOPLE of the Book. IF the "Book" is NOT the Bible, well, WHAT pray tell are the "People of the Book"?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
If you haven't noticed the "bible" you read today is NOT the SAME as the the scriptures locked away in Jerusalem. The original teachings of the Injeel, was not a book that was GIVEN to the disciples of Jesus, it was Jesus' message. PAUL made the New Testament, and PAUL never even met Jesus in real life. The Injeel, just like the Laws given to Moses, were not left behind except in the form of teachings. The original teachings are forever lost. Need I show you some documentaries?
Propaine187 1 year ago
IF what you are saying is true, they had to be lost AFTER the "handing down" of Quran 2:106 being that Quranic scriptures were never abrogated to tell People of the Book to NOT stand firm upon the Torah and Injil, true? IF they are lost or corrupted, it had to be AFTER the handing down of 4:136 and 10:94, true? I mean WHY should you come to ME for my reading the "before Scriptures" (and the Torah, Injil and Psalms are before scriptures), well, it had to be AFTER the abrogation, true?
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago
@MegaBoxer77
I suggest you re-watch this video for the answers to your question on the matter of the "People of the Book." There were SOME Christians who practiced monotheism and prayed only to the One God and included none of that trinity nonsense, and then there were the majority of the Christians most of whom were pagan converts who included pagan beliefs in their versions of the teachings of Christ.
Propaine187 1 year ago
@Propaine187
Oh, I'm sure there WERE some Christians who did that, and, they still do that today. They are called Catholics.
MegaBoxer77 1 year ago