Rook Hawkins of Rational Response Squad on Pontius Pilate

[Pilgrim1411]

Rook is a deceiver. Read:

JESUS AND THE EYEWITNESSES by, Bauckham;

THE RESURRECTION OF THE SON OF GOD, by N.T. Wright;

REINVENTING JESUS, by J. Komoszewski,

THE JESUS LEGEND, By Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd;

THE HISTORICAL JESUS, by Habermas;

SHATTERING THE CHRIST MYTH, by Holding;

TRUSTING THE NEW TESTAMENT, by Holding

[DrEinstein100]

Rook, as to the tradition. It was pilot's tradition not a Jewish tradition. It had nothing to do with the scapegoat sacrifice spoken of in the old testament. You are right about Pilate becoming a Christian probably being a myth, but I you seem to be overly stating you knowledge of his motives. If you look at it rationally after reading from Josephus the gospel's description is quite believable. Pilot was a bad ruler, but not a man who just killed for the fun of it ( if we trust Josephus).

[IwillhonorGod]

I am not no expert. And this non sence people want to talk about the bible not being true. Give me a break! But just I wonder, what pilate thought, in regards to Jesus. And the things I think maybe, I don't know for sure, but I think maybe, he heard of some of Jesus healings and miracles, and I wonder if pilate thought of any of these things in regards to military applications.

[christianthinker]

Wow! What a shoddy polemic! Nothing rational about anything you had to say. Atheists like to pick on Josephus and ignore the rest of the Church Fathers.

[DrEinstein100]

@christianthinker When he says that the Bible makes Pilate out to be a nice man, he is wide of the mark, read Luke 13:1-5.

[MChurchman]

Didn't Jospehus write under the influence of Rome? Josephus was also Jewish right? So if Pilate was a ruler that was removed from power and did not get along with the Jewish people,is it then also possible that Josephus' bias may have come through in his portrayal of Pilate? To be honest I don't even think Pilate is portrayed as being all that nice a guy in the Gospels to begin with but these are just some thoughts about your responses Rook.

[DrEinstein100]

@MChurchman @MChurchman I don't think that he was portrayed as nice guy ether. In Luke 23:12 it says that he and Herod became friends on that day, and Herod was far from a good man, so what does that say about pilot. I read from Josephus, and from what I can make out, Pilot thought that that he was putting down some sort of insurrection. He acted foolishly, and was overly harsh, but he does not seem to be so bad a man as Rook would have us , if we are to believe Josephus.

[andrewsurtees]

finally, a post that allows comments.

nobody's saying that none of this happened, just that it didn't necessarily happen as it was related

[LouisPlume]

There's no way that a Governor of a Roman Provence would release a murderer of an Imperial tax collector by an insurrectionist. This was an attack on the Emperor who was divine and and the Roman state, it would be like America letting off Osama B off.

The early Christians in order to sell Christ to the Romans, couldn't very well say it was a Roman who had killed him, that would create religious consumer resistance, so they blamed it on the Jews. And look where that ended.

[dfledermaus]

As a coin collector, I can tell you that Pilate also issued coins with his name on them; mostly small copper pieces called prutahs. To show just how insensitive he was towards his Jewish subjects, his coins featured the implements of his pagan priesthoods. It would be hard to think of anything calculated to offend the Jews more than having to daily handle coins with pagan symbols on them. They're relatively common coins. You often see them on eBay.

[TAXtheAtheist]

Duuuuuude, Rook, get off the college drugs, duuuuuuude !!!

[hoogys]

It's quite simple Rookie. after all the shit Pilate pulled on the Jews (torcher etc etc) The Jews complained to the Emperor when this happened he was warned to stay at bay. why do you think the bible mentions this little information.

John 19:12

Then Pilate tried to release him, but the Jewish leaders shouted, "If you release this man, you are no 'friend of Caesar.' Anyone who declares himself a king is a rebel against Caesar."

but that is only the beginning.

[danjoeblue]

Since Pilate despised the Jews as you said, perhaps part of why he did not want to put Christ to death at first was because it's what the Jews wanted. Since he despised them, why would he want to do them this favor? Remember, he said, "I wash my hands..."

Also, the passage was not intended as allegory. That interpretation does not fit the historical detail and data. If this was just an allegory why would the author have been so accurate as to record this trial so clearly as "extra ordinem"?

[danjoeblue]

Rook-

Did it occur to you that perhaps Pilate wanted to have mercy on Jesus since he knew Jesus did nothing to deserve death? Furthermore, have you considered the fact that the Jews wanted Jesus dead? Pilate was not siding with them as you said in the video. That was an absurd statement.

[danjoeblue]

What motivates you to do what you do Rook? Do you find pleasure in it?

Religious people have obvious motivations for trying to persuade people of their beliefs. Sometimes it's out of genuine concern for people's destiny and an authentic love for them. Others do it because they want to earn points or make their leader happy or perhaps it's just something to do.

What motivates you to attempt to refute Christianity?

[paulmcfarland]

Actually you can see my reply to the right among the related videos. Please watch it.

[paulmcfarland]

Don't believe what this guy tells you- he is feeding you lies. Look up "rook pilate" and watch my reply.

[jongo2142]

Did he just use Josephus as a reference?

Kelly stated that he was a "hotly disputed historian". I'm not trying to be clever, honestly. Is he a reputable source or not?

[danjoeblue]

jongo2142

Although there has been a lot of dispute in decades past about Josephus' references to Jesus, contemporary scholars now accept the two references to Jesus as genuine. However, the former one in 18:63 does contain an interpolation. BUT, within this interpolation there is a genuine nucleus reference to Jesus. There are multiple lines of evidence for this nucleus. Let me know if you want to hear them.

The latter passage in 20:200 has been doubted by few historians.

[jongo2142]

Might want to leave that out of the next debate then.

[danjoeblue]

jongo2142-

You said,

"Might want to leave that out of the next debate then."

I don't understanding what you meant my this comment.

[LouisPlume]

Josephus's mentioning of Jesus has certainly NOT been authenticated by scholars as his words. There is still debate, but that is now a minority sport for a few Christians.

Look at the contempt Josephus has for all all people who claim to have an extra spiritual relationship with God, he cant stand them. Josephus despised people who preached to the masses in the market place.

[danjoeblue]

LouisPlume-

Unless you have read up on this a great deal I don't recommend getting into this with me. I am fully aware that there are still scholars that think that 18:63 is a total interpolation and VERY few who think the same of 20:200.

Your remark about this being a sport for a few Christians is absurd. Shlomo Pines of Hebrew University was not a Christian but believed that the Agapian manuscript preserved the reference to Jesus in 18:63.

[LouisPlume]

Ive read some & all Josephus.Pines was a follower of Leo Strauss, he believed Religious Conservatism should be used to control society.Not saying he had an agenda, just informing you I know who you are talking about, even his politics.How ever remarking Pines is not a Christian is hardly a valid argument, maybe you could address that. Josephus's books have contempt for people who assert that they are on a mission from God, its a continues theme, then he mentions Jesus, I don't think so.

[danjoeblue]

Thank you. It's good to have someone who knows something about this. I grow weary of teenagers who have never even cracked Josephus who try to debate this topic.

You said,

"However remarking Pines is not a Christian is hardly a valid argument"

My comment about Pines was a response to your earlier comment that this was "a minority sport for a few Christians." I was refuting your claim that only a "few Christians" debate this point. This was the intention of the remark. Does that make sense?

[danjoeblue]

I don't think your argument should cause us to totally dismiss what is written about Jesus. The context of 18:63 is the acts of Pilate. The ripple effects from Jesus were spreading far, wide & fast by Josephus' time. I think it's very unlikely that a historian would fail to mention the founder of this fast growing group in the context of Pilate- the man who was responsible for the founders crucifixion. I think it's more unlikely than not mentioning him because of some "contempt", as you said.

[Eph1123]

RRS on unbiased history? Pilate sided with Jesus despite the Jews. Pilate like any ruler wasn't going to have his subjects tell him who was guilty or not. Pilate was a mess up by Rome's standards anyways. That's why they stuck him in Judea. Jesus was going to die with or without Pilate. The bible doesn't have an author, the sixty six different books and letters and poetry it's comprised of does.

[BlueBarrier782]

Symbology isnt a word. Watch "Boondock Saints" and you would know that. However, props on everything else.

[strangeffect]

Symbology is most definitely a word.

[StructuralDefect22]

I hope you don't get all your facts of life from movies. Symbology (study of symbols) is a word, it was just used in the wrong context in that movie.

[paulmcfarland]

Don't believe what this guy tells you- he is feeding you lies. Look up "rook pilate" and watch my reply.

[bykini]

It might be interesting, what you said. Unfortunately, You're rather bad to read. Please consider, that internet is an international channel for communication. So, I am located in Germany, and I would appreciate a more "loud and clear" pronounciation. Thanks.

[Catwiz]

Very good work. You did your homework on this! Two little issues, though: He was less agressive than simply overconfident. He tried to push too much of the Roman influence over Judea and angered the natives, and did NOT handle the rioting well. Thus, from a Jewish perspective he could indeed seem violent. Also, he was not canonized by the Catholic church but by the orthodox. Only a few distinct churches recognize his sainthood, but not the Roman Catholics. His wife was, though.

[paulmcfarland]

To see Rook exposed look up "rook pontius pilate" and watch the reply. My video is a direct reply but isn't coming up in the related column...now isn't that strange.

[obrienr]

You are full of excrement. Pilate relented when Jesus' opponents threatened him by saying that if he released Jesus he was "no friend of Caesar," which is a statement that would have made just about any Roman official think twice.

[TriangleChoke96]

Just out of curiosity... what are your credentials? PhD? if so, what is your area of expertise? what are some of your writings?

[paulmcfarland]

If it was simply the case that he was ignorant of the truth, it could be excused. However Rook deliberately lies to give weight to his statements. The fact that he didn't allow my response should speak for itself.

[hoherbass74]

You're spouting trivia that anyone with a decent idea of how to use a search engine could find. I'm a rationalist, too. But where's your argument? A bunch of disjointed historical detritus isn't a good framework for a "rational response." Maybe when you start to grow pubic hair, you'll also develop the intellect that you pretend--and desperately want--to have.

[paulmcfarland]

Check out my reply- in the column to the right. Wonder if RRS will allow it...

[jcr4runner]

The most reliable historians on a matter are not the most recent ones but the writers closest to the events.

"Over the last 30 years or so, scholarship has moved away from many previously held notions, one is that Christianity was started off singular historical events or revelations."

Why would someone 2000 years removed from the event suddenly get the idea that Jesus never existed. Why didn't this idea appear prior to the 1800s? The early critics never discounted that Jesus existed.

[jcr4runner]

Yes ... you know umm .. of course .. ammm uhh and ummm am uhhhhh ... basically ... you know. Totally. Kind of.

The Apostles just made it all up.

Through "research" you can figure it all out. "Read some books that I read." "Do your homework." And umm "stay rational."

This guy claims to be a historian?

But maybe I should say something positive: Nice baseball cap. Nice Boston accent too.

This level of scholarship really speaks for itself.

[S0n0fMan]

Your wrath has swept over me; your terrors have destroyed me. All day long they surround me like a flood;  they have completely engulfed me.

You have taken my companions and loved ones from me; the darkness is my closest friend.

[KevWilliamsMusic]

I don't even believe this guy presenting this video even exists, I think the whole thing came together by random chance. It's science's job to find the answers & to say the Rational Rsponse did it, well that's just getting in the way of science myspace IDenyBrianSapient

[S0n0fMan]

Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?

But I cry to you for help, O LORD; in the morning my prayer comes before you.

Why, O LORD, do you reject me and hide your face from me? From my youth I have been afflicted and close to death;  I have suffered your terrors and am in despair.

[S0n0fMan]

You have taken from me my closest friends and have made me repulsive to them. I am confined and cannot escape;my eyes are dim with grief. I call to you, O LORD, every day; I spread out my hands to you. Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do those who are dead rise up and praise you? Selah Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction [d] ?

[S0n0fMan]

I am counted among those who go down to the pit; I am like a man without strength.

I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more, who are cut off from your care. You have put me in the lowest pit, in the darkest depths.

Your wrath lies heavily upon me; you have overwhelmed me with all your waves. Selah

[S0n0fMan]

A song. A psalm of the Sons of Korah. For the director of music. According to mahalath leannoth. A maskil of Heman the Ezrahite.

a] [b] O LORD, the God who saves me, day and night I cry out before you.May my prayer come before you; turn your ear to my cry.

For my soul is full of trouble and my life draws near the grave. [c]

[Braves4321]

Most of the people who watch this video would applaud it even if it showed dancing pink flamingos. Congratulations, Rook, you can read. You can read, and you can recite. Nice job. But to be an authority on the subject, you need to show some kind of verification that you can do solid exegesis, and that you are fluent in the historical method. Everything you read is anti anti anti. Read Evans, Witherington, or Hengel, and refute them. It would be a way to establish credibility.

[RookHawk]

Had you bothered to look into me, Braves, you'd note that I do challenge many perspectives. Over the last 30 years or so, scholarship has moved away from many previously held notions, one is that Christianity was started off singular historical events or revelations. Please read Burton Mack, also please check out the SBLSS 28, "Redescribing Christian Origins." The problem is that too many apologists are influencing sensationalist pseudo-historians. A few good example is Craig.

[herkvi]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't notice anything about Jesus' competitor, Barabbas. Specifically, that this isn't a name. It simply means, "Son of the Father." So, was the competition between Jesus and himself? The story is a little strange, at best.

[RookHawk]

Herkvi, thanks for your note. The problem is that, as stated above, the earliest manuscripts we have state "Jesus Barabbas." (Please consult the NA 27) Yes, it means "son of the father" - Jesus, son of the father. Jesus Christ refers to himself as Jesus, son of man. There is extremely symbolism in which Mark was trying to convey.

[KevWilliamsMusic]

RR show a lot of deep hatred towards someone they claim doesn't exist myspace IDenyBrianSapient

[RookHawk]

Are you really this ignorant? You can't hate something that doesn't exist.

[aajoeyjo]

I always admired Pontius Pilate. He was about the only rational, thinking person in the entire Bible. Christians should love him. He was the only person who genuinely tried to save Jesus' life. He didn't need to see any "miracles" first, either.

[tacopylas]

Didn't you watch the video? He just said that all of the evidence indicates what a dick Pontius Pilate was. You're taking the path of "it's in the Bible, therefore it's true".

[hamatzav]

If you have any knowledge of Hebrew names or of the Hebrew language you'll find that the name "Bar Abba" does not necessarily imply Jesus. It could easily have been a surname or a name that was adopted. "Shimon Bar Kokhba" a rebel in 70AD adopted that name which means "Son of a Star". Just an example of how these things weren't uncommon.

[RookHawk]

Hama, in some ancient manuscripts it states "Jesus Barrabas". It's not that Bar Abba implies Jesus, rather this is what some of our earliest manuscripts state. There is clearly allegorical reference there.

[oliviathecanadian]

loser

[Rhonda9]

So much about the gospels is taken as "gospel truth" and nothing could be farther from it. Great vid. Thanks :)

[joker2fade]

wack

[nncarroll]

I just about shit when he said "symbology". haha. Nice vid, rook. Best. history professor. ever.

[Katalyzt]

Nicely done Rook...

Katalyzt

[Smola1022]

why is the video squeezed horizontally lately?

[eric712]

Rook, please have my babies.

[DreamAddict]

Wikipedia says that PP's wife Procula is a coptic Saint and PP is a Saint in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

[AgainstAllGods]

Thank you Rook.

[MediaGold]

Hmmm, very interesting...

BTW, my name is Bishop Sagan.

[TrueNorth15]

cool vid

[mjr256]

Truth - 1 Truthiness - 0

[Antichrist4Life]

Yeah, and it's really funny that after Pilate makes his decision to release Jesus and convict a well-known criminal, he comes out again to get the Jews' approval on the matter! As if Pilate trembled at the idea of offending or disobeying them! LOL It's so utterly ridiculous.

[Judelicious1971]

Good stuff. Would like to see you make more videos on scriptural texts Rook...

[qxdc]

lol. Researchingz.

[healthyaddict]

^_^

[Mjhavok]

Great video rook. More like this on youtube from you hopefully.