LMAO, "The Trinity is a human fairy tale". I love how religious people pick and choose what they think is real and what they agree with me to be a fairy tale. Dude, the same people who brought you the Trinity brought you the Bible.
My Heavenly Father gave me a revelation about the meaning of 666, the number of the beast. It was yesterday close to 6:00 PM. I was thinking about the mark of the beast and suddenly, the Light came in! It's glorius and it's for this time. Most of the serious Bible scholars know that the words “…in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Spirit, and these three are one”, are in fact an apocryphal addition to the original text, that can be traced back as far as the 16th Century.
The added words "these three are one" MATCH PERFECTLY Revelation 13:16 "Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six. (American Standard Version) The Trinity Doctrine is the name of the beast. That meaning can be understood more likely in all the languages of the world, even chinese, korean, japanese, that could not understant the earlier explanations with the Latin Language
Lolz, he isn't making a case at all, just showing that he doesn't understand it. "the first use of this term blah blah" yeah cause the first use of the word homosexual was invented in X date therefore they don't really exist and they are just a figment of your imagination LOLZ. Just because people only realize something later on, doesn't mean it never existed. on the contrary that is how knowledge is gained, you learn things you don't know. you can't learn things you already know.
It is more constructive to talk about the Illuminati, than to talk of the mystery of the Holy Trinity. As it stands, the "cardinality" on the trinity is such that the Crown Revelation of the Immaculate Conception (Marian Apparition/Woman standing on the sun), the historical figure of Jesus the Christ, and the Pope in the work of the Holy Spirit are equally creative, redemptive and mediative alike. But this notion is still an Illuminatic notion! I will get in trouble for saying this on youtube
@5thwatcher, You said in the video: "To be fair there is a lot of Scripture to say that Jesus is God and vice-versa but there is nothing that includes the Holy Ghost in that."
This seems to contradict your comment made to littlesteviebeaumont; you said, "I never made any claim as to the nature of the Holy Spirit."
It seems that littlesteviebeaumont's claim that the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4) should and must be considered.
@5thwatcher, "Why did it take so long? That means all the Christians between the time of Jesus and the time of 325 A.D., first Council of Nicea, including the apostles are burning right now because we had no concept of the Trinity?"
Your argument is flawed. One could make the same argument for why Christ took 10s or even 100s of thousands of years before coming to save us.
God is not on our timetable. A sloweness for a doctrine to be defined does not disprove its veracity.
@5thWatcher yeah and revelations was also added later.
btw even john 1.1 isn't vague, the guy just chose not to read the whole chapter. lolz. yeah that is like complaining about a newspaper headline and saying " ITS SO VAGUE, WHERE ARE THE DETAILS" DUH, its a headline.
@whittle4u Dude, I am not linking to anything, because this should be common sense. When did king James version come out? was it 1400's? 1500's? What do you think people read before that? The fact is that thanks to modern anthropology, we have uncovered many older copies of biblical texts, and as of now we have far more early copies of Bible books than we did when King James came out. New Translations are based on older manuscripts. Google Nag Hammadi, Dead Sea Scrolls, and P52 to get started.
@5thWatcher What does common sense have to do with biblical knowledge? The King James version was created in 1611 from the original manuscripts. The Nag Hammadi are Gnostic books and not Biblical. The dead sea scrolls are just copies of books we already have, and what does that have to do with 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. KJV Even without that verse, it is clear that the trinity is in fact biblical.
@whittle4u That verse is not in the original manuscripts, look up johanna comma in wiki or encyclapedia, you will see that does not belong in any translation
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. 1 John 5:7 KJV Everyone knows that Jesus is the word. "the word became flesh"
"Then Mary said to the angel, 'How can this be, since I do not know a man?' And the angel answered and said to her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God'" (Luke 1:34,35).
"Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: 'Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness'" (Heb. 3:7,8). This is a quotation from Psalm 95:7-11.
"And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters" (Genesis 1:2)
"You hide Your face, they are troubled; You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust. You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the earth" (Psalm 104:29,30).
"You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, and did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, and gave them water for their thirst" (Nehemiah 9:20).
"And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit have sent Me" (Isaiah 48:16). "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you" (John 14:26). "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me" (John 15:26).
"God anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit and with power. "The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ -- He is Lord of all -- that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him" (Acts 10:36-38).
The bottom line is this: God is one yet God has to be 3 persons within this unity. If not, then Jesus cannot be divine, by definition.
If Jesus isnt divine then his claims to be God must be false. Yet he forgave sins, did miracles, taught, accepted worship all in his OWN authority, not God's. Why did Thomas call him 'My Lord and my God'? If Jesus isnt divine, God sacrificed someone else - an act of vengeful appeasement - not selfless love. So Jesus HAS to be divine - 1 of 3 persons of one God
@MrJayguess Hello, I just read your comment and was wondering if you could be the one to answer this question: How does one sacrifice ones self to ones self? Can you borrow money from your left pocket and pay it back with your right? This is a fundamental flaw to Christianity which is completely overlooked. Also bear in mind that Yahweh invented sin in the first place. Thank you.
@IamLiterallyRetarded So to whom was Jesus sacrificed? If to an aloof vengeful god then that is not the God of whom Jesus spoke, nor that of the OT. As a man, Jesus suffered like any other human, paying the price of sin - yours and mine. However, as God, he showed the ultimate sacrifice of laying down his own, divine, life as an act of unconditional, absolute love. Without the divinity of Christ the crucifixion makes no sense - and the resurrection makes even less sense if that were possible.
@IamLiterallyRetarded Part2: By the way, God did not 'invent' sin. Although Genesis is an allegorical Hebrew poem, it still relates the profound message that God created things perfect - humanity had no shame in being naked as an example. Nor did humanity sin. So to say God 'created' sin is a rather strange concept. That he dealt with sin through Jesus and allowing humanity free will to choose to sin or not is not questioned. But only when humanity went its own way did things go pear-shaped.
@MrJayguess God, being an omniscient being, would have known exactly how things were going to turn out. So before "he" even began he knew it was not going to work out. Would you spend a week making something if you knew with 100% certainty that it would not work? And on top of that would you invent arbitrary rules about needing a sacrifice when the inevitable happened? No rational being would behave like that. Is Yahweh insane?
@IamLiterallyRetarded "God, being an omniscient being, would have known exactly how things were going to turn out." Absolutely. But the choice is: 1. Create a perfect humanity that had no concept of evil or 2. Create humanity that could chose, by freewill, evil or good. The first creation is of automata, who love because they know no difference. The second have the CHOICE to love God or not. True love is not a compelled love but a love that is by CHOICE. The price is worth paying for Freewill.
@fundreamer1 Interesting comment, but I must add that if one believes that Jesus is the way to salvation, then his divinity MUST be part and parcel of that belief. Otherwise the theology of the Cross is meaningless, and the crucifixion and resurrection make no sense. And dont forget his Great Commission at the end of Matthew's gospel where Jesus himself uses Trinitarian doctrine. True belief in Christ (cf. Thomas' exclamation 'My Lord and my God!') MUST take on board his humanity AND divinity.
@MrJayguess Jesus also said he is Lord and Master, I believe firmly that Jesus is the flesh of God (The word made flesh) but I have read nothing in the Bible that suggests that salvation is only for people that believe this.
Jesus said that he is the door, if we knock he will open it, he never said he would only open the door if you accepted him as God.
@fundreamer1 But acceptance of Jesus IS accepting his Divinity. Jesus claimed to be divine (he forgave sins, performed miracles in his own name, accepted worship, taught in his own authority etc) and blessed Thomas when he realised that Jesus was his Lord AND God. One can only love Christ with one's whole heart, soul, mind and strength if one accepts his divinity. Anything less shows a half-hearted acceptance. Jesus was not just a moral teacher - he never left that option open to us.
@fundreamer1 Actually, Jesus never claimed to be 'the way to God'. he claimed to be the way to the FATHER - a very different, and Trinitarian concept. I take your point about your belief in a 'divine Messiah' , but if there is ONE God, and if Jesus IS divine that means he IS God. Otherwise you fall into the trap of the JW who has to claim Jesus is a 'god' (whatever that means) as they reject his divinity.
If you would like to discuss this in friendship, email me on the site.
Wow, I had no idea you felt that way. I must have just missed this video all of this year or so I've known about you. It's almost ridiculous how similar your beliefs are to mine! I love you, man.
@Awesomeoneofawesome Well, I mean, that's fine and all of course, but actually the scope of possibilities aside from the Trinity specifically are not all that different.
Your deduction regarding the trinity is correct. it was added.
Why exactly this happened and became approved by the ecumenical council is open to speculation, however i would wager it would have allot to do with the preferences of pagan converts who had previously worshiped triune Gods (Triple-Mother-goddess .etc)
Christianity wasnt always spread peacefully after-all and a great way of imposing your beliefs on others is to adopt elements that already exist in their religious tradition
I believe, now this is a loose analogy, Father,Son, Holy interactive DVD, with write and re-write. We are three, body, mind, and spirit. Here is God's revelation of three in one. I think we make it so complicated, we lose sight that it is described as nuteral gender, as in comforter. I beleive if Catholic dogma is involved in any way especially, the translation from the Greek, It should be questiones as if it's a lie. You go bro.
@TheGenuineChristian First of all not all atheists are ignorant. But let me tell you that i stated that this whole trinity is not correct to Christians(In shocks chat room) and they back it up with that bible verse, and many others but those didn't make much sense, but that one blow my mind . And yes thanks for the links I'll look more into it. I remember reading a book where the trinity was mentioned and proven false. But i never found that verse in there neither here to be refuted. Thx again.
@16thunder That's what my channel is dedicated to; proving the Trinity and the 'Jesus is the Almighty God' doctrine as nonsense. Bart D. Ehrman, in his book Misquoting Jesus, does a fine job on explanation how the KJV rendering of 1 John 5:7 crept into the manuscript that the KJV is based on.
@16thunder That wording only appears in but a few very late manuscripts - it was added. the original wording was simply (verse 7-8): "So we have these three witnesses - the Spirit, the water and the blood - and all three agree."
@fundreamer1 "It is missing in all the earlier Greek manuscripts, for it is found in no Greek manuscript written before the 16th century. ...it is found in only two Greek manuscripts of any age - one the Codex Montfortianus, or Britannicus, written in the beginning of the sixteenth century, and the other the Codex Ravianus, which is a mere transcript of the text, taken partly from the third edition of Stephen's New Testament, and partly from the Complutensian Polyglott."
Mentions of the Holy Spirit only demonstrate that such a being exists; I find descriptions of the holy spirit are too vague to draw any solid conclusions as to it's nature, other than that it's some sort of function or agent of God.
@5thWatcher A lot of you other Christians come here and seem to think that because I don't buy into the trinity I must be rejecting all three persons in it. No. I accept the son as a my savior, the father as my God, and the holy spirit in my heart. The only difference is I accept the mystery that is the nature of their existence and interplay and don;t try to act like I know more about God than man can truly know.
@5thWatcher "A lot of you other Christians come here and seem to think that because I don't buy into the trinity I must be rejecting all three persons in it."
I am going to assume you mean me with this statement.
I would like to point out that I said nothing either way, I just asked a couple of questions.
The reason I asked about the OT mentioning the Holy Spirit, is that the way it is worded leads me to believe that the Holy Spirit is a part of God.
@fundreamer1 I guess that was an aside, though other people have said as much. You may post an example if you like. I've seen a lot of them. Mostly I feel that while the verses don't contradict the Trinity, they don't vindicate it either.
@5thWatcher When God created man in his own image, he literally created him in his own image in the fact that we have the same three parts that is described about God having. There is God the Father (Our mind or soul, the decision maker) God the son (We are in a body of flesh) And God the Spirit (We have a spirit)
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit...
"Pythagoreanism is a term used for the esoteric and metapsihical beliefs held by Phytagoras and his followers, the Pythagoreans, who were much influenced by mathematics and probably a main inspirational source for Plato and platonism."
"For, as the Pythagoreans say, the world and all that is in it is determined by the number three, since beginning and middle and end give the number of an 'all', and the number they give is the trinity [Greek trias; English = "trinity"]. And so, having taken these three from nature as (so to speak) laws of it, we make further use of the number three in the worship of the Gods." (Aristotle, On the Heavens, Book I, 1)
This Greek philosopher's [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions." -- (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
Regarding the popular Trinity doctrine The Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel stated: "The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches . . .
Do you believe that God, the Holy Father, would actually allow someone to claim He shares superiority with another if it were not true? Think of the outcome, my friend. God is absolute perfection and a just God, no one other than is son could make such a claim and not be struck down. God is a SPIRIT regardless of whatever you want to proclaim.So the TRINITY is mentioned several times buddy.
Your last words "just accept the mystery!" is exactly what I hear from the trinitarians all the time.Jesus is the Christ,the Son of the living God,the image and representative of the one he called the Only True God.(Jn. 17:3)The person of Christ died while God cannot.No mystery about that much!I utterly agree that to vote in a council on the nature of God and threaten to banish or kill anyone who doesn't bow to your man-concocted formula is nonsense,even blasphemy,in the highest order.
@howdytheresir When the Bible says Jesus is the son of God, i simply take that at face value, rather than trying to twist that around to mean God and Jesus are exactly the same being. Biblically speaking Jesus is most certainly probably made of the same substance as God, but if he is "God's son" then that's hardly a strong indication the two are entirely synonymous.
@5thWatcher Christ is described as corporeal,and God is described as invisible.If same substance means both have a divine nature,then I would agree with that much,since even Christians will "partake" of that.Christ and Christians experience "the fullness of God" in that we're a temple in which he dwells.Bodily.
The first council of the Church happened in 50 AD...280ish years before Nicea. Nothing much happened at Nicea, so it's very easy for us to read the historical reports and documents about what happened. There is bascailly nothing mentioned about the Holy Spirit except for it gets mentioned by name once in a Creed. Otherwise, the Council of Nicea basically attempted to weed out the heresy known as arianism
I have to disagree with you, there is no support whatsoever for the trinity in the Bible. In fact, there isn't even a "HINT" to a trinity in the Bible.
@ISLEDGEI You want to test my knowledge and see how much you don't know what you're talking about? You're biting way more than you're able to chew. I suggest you go watch my videos and not emberess yourself here by trying to challenge me. Take care.
Mark 3 29 if God s spirit were not personalized by the bible the sin would be to reject God or his commandment but the bible seems make a point of saying his spirit I think you have excepted his spirit the job of the spirit I believe is to lead us to Christ we all do see though a glass dimly after all Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life
@5th Watcher -- I respect your view. You see the pieces that are there, it's just you probably need to be able to see the picture in a bigger view for your own understanding before deciding one way or another on the matter. No matter what, God bless you and may you walk with Jesus Christ be fruitful and full of love.
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 28:19). While the term "Trinity" may not be used here, I believe it to be implied. Why would Jesus make a command to baptize in all of these names? I believe in the Trinity, but claim no allegiance to the Catholic church. I do believe the Trinity to be a mystery, it's fullness to be further revealed in the eternal future.
(Acts 5:3-4) But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
The Holy Spirit is God. And yes you are not a Christian if you don't believe in the Trinity. It is not a human fairy tale.
Wow you really are a heretic. And an arrogant one too. This is very sad. There are a lot more verses that prove the trinity. Have you read the entire bible carefully or did you skim around?
@MaharlikaAWA Watch the insults, sir. I'm happy to discuss this but in an adult way.
Yes, I've read all the totally unrelated verses that are awkwardly strung together in order to clumsily "prove" the trinity. I think what those verses actually reflect is something humanity isn't meant to fully understand. The only thing that's arrogent is humanity's attempt to define it, and to define God.
@5thWatcher You can assume that all you want, but the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ is God. The Holy Spirit is also God. What do you claim about Christ and the Holy Spirit and the Father? Do you see that there are 3 persons the Bible speaks about?
@MaharlikaAWA (1 of 2) I feel like you didn't understand my position in the video. My position is NOT that I disagree with the Bible. My position is that I don't think the Bible actually says what the Trinity theory thinks that the Bible says, and that the theory is filling in the gaps that the Bible doesn't provide on the topic. Of all the connections, the idea that Jesus is God certainly is the strongest, and based on what the bible says, I do think that Jesus is God.
(2 of 2) The biggest assumption that the Trinity theory makes is that Jesus is synonymous with the Holy Spirit. I have found no verse in explicit support of that idea or even a verse that might suggest it.
@MaharlikaAWA I get that this hard to grasp, but I literally do not have a position. I simply am content with what the Bible says about it, and what it seems to paint is a picture I'd say is pretty incomplete. I simply accept that it is in some part a mystery. Perhaps we'll understand fully once in Heaven. We could find out the trinity is the correct view, I'm just saying we don't have enough info biblically to solidly come to that conclusion.
@5thWatcher You are wrong man the Bible explain the trinity in a lot of place. Now answer the questions: Who is the Father? Who is the Holy Spirit? You already told me that Jesus is God. So who are the rest?
@MaharlikaAWA The Bible says enough that we can properly assume God is synonymous with "the Father". It is decidedly more vague concerning the Holy Spirit. Based on what the Bible says, if you were to say that the Holy Spirit is an agent of God rather than the same thing as God, that would be a position that is not especially unbliblical. Once again, I just don't think the Bible says enough about it that we can claim to know that what the Trinity theory says is true.
@5thWatcher I really dont get how you can come to this conclusion. Its completely illogical. Even cults would try to say the Bible says the Trinity is not real, but you just want to be in the "I dont know" camp, yet you want to say you are more inclined to believe the Trinity is not true and only Jesus is God? Who is Yahweh in the Old Testament? Who is the Father? Is the Father God or someone else?
@5thWatcher 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We all, with unveiled faces, are reflecting the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit."
That is explicit evidence that the Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit is a person who talks and feels emotions and thinks. Also if Jesus is only God and no one else then why does God talk to Himself?
@5thWatcher Hebrews 1 has God speaking about angels and then God speaks about the Son (The Son if Jesus Christ) and says "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever," in verse 8. Why would God call someone else God? Why would Jesus talk to Himself if that were the case? The truth is the Farther is God and was speaking about the Son who is also God.
@5thWatcher The Holy Spirit in Hebrews 3:7-11 talks and shows He is a person. He also claims to be God by saying that "Your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works for 40 years." He was refering to the Exodus. The Holy Spirit is taking credit here about being God.
If only Jesus is God and no one else why does 1 Peter 1:3 say "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"? Jesus Christ has a God that is not Himself is what it is saying. You are being illogical.
Voting on the nature of God lol - Not only is that hilarious, sadly it's true. We can all thank Roman Catholicism for the so-called "trinity", the idea of burning in hell forever (eternal torment), and for spilling the blood of millions of martyrs who were faithful to the Scriptures and what they actually teach. Way to go Rome!
@aTrueHybrid - John 8:24 most certainly is not a reference to the "ehyeh asher ehyeh" claim from Exodus 3:14. The Greek phrase 'ego eimi', properly translated "I am" or "I am he", is a reference to him being the Messiah. Just compare John 8:24 (in context) with John 4:24-25. When Jesus said "I am he" to the Samaritan woman in John 4, he wasn't claiming to be the God of Israel, he was claiming to be his anointed (the messiah).
Looking in my NLT Bible, I notice that 1 John 5:7 does not say "the three are one", and notes in a footnote that only "very late" manuscripts say this, which means we can pretty conclusively say that was added in later by a scribe.
Since the authenticity of the confirmation of the Trinity in that verse can be debunked, usually a host of questionable interpretations of many other verses are used in support of the theory, though I'm not convinced by any of it.
@5thWatcher actually, there are no scholars that I have been able to find, who doesn't admit that the 3 are 1, and even the "Father, Son, & Holy Spirit" were definitely added later. The original scripture said, "In MY NAME"
@hithisisjordan ,this was added around 1500 and was not in ANY of the original manuscripts that any Bible version is based on. WHY was it added? It was a marginal note, ADDED by a human, to a manuscript in about the year 350. Please research it. Blessings to you~
I don't believe , but that said , I was raised in a Christian family so I have read and studied the Bible. . I never accepted their trinitarian viewpoint however. First, the Trinity was invented by the Council of Nicea. Second, the OT clearly rejects the concept, for instance " Hear, Oh Israel , the Lord our God is One God".
I agree, the Old testament was all about monotheism and if anything Jesus would be considered the child of God who by dying brought the spirit of Truth, never referred to as a God, but rather, a spirit from God, and was described as a kind of being that dwells inside of them and makes intercession to God and teaches them stuff. This trinity could very well be blasphemous for the purpose of proselytizing other religions. It's was a very Pagan time in Nicaea during 325 a.d, Word.
Looking in my NLT Bible, I notice that 1 John 5:7 does not say "the three are one", and notes in a footnote that only "very late" manuscripts say this, which means we can pretty conclusively say that was added in later by a scribe.
Since the authenticity of the confirmation of the Trinity in that verse can be debunked, usually a host of questionable interpretations of many other verses are used in support of the theory, though I'm not convinced by any of it.
I believe / think , it,s like our own manifestation , The body , The mind and the soul/spirit . All these things are needed to be one . So , in my mind it,s not 1+1+1= 3 but more like 1times1times1= 1
I notice that you asked a lot of questions of how come??
You are reading & have already made up your mind not to accept His truth. God's truth can only be revealed to you if you don't go into it with such sceptisism. Read His word and let it speak to your heart then it will be revealed to you! It's all there brother if you would just allow it to be revealed. You were right, "trinity" isnt biblical. Neither are the words" bible" or "rapture". BUT IT'S ALL REVEALED!!
Continued... is not in the bible and, for me, is not something that cannot be debated or molded differently. No where does it say you will go to hell for not beleieving in a three in one God especially since Jesus really didn't care to mention anything like it. But again, we still draw conclusions from things in the bible that are ambiguous or inconspicuous. So just because the bible does not say trinity does not mean that it is not true. For me, I do beleive in the trinity but I'm all ears also
I disagree. What about the various scriptures that use "the spirit of God" rather than just God? What about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I mean i do hate when Christians automatically default someone to paganism or atheism because they do not subscribe to the same doctrine and, even worse, don't ask the person to state their case. However, I still contend that there are three partsto God. Or to be completely fair there may be even MORE parts to God. But you are right the word trinity...
"Explain the Trinity, lose your mind. Reject the Trinity, lose your soul." Haha I've heard that before. By the way, Jesus mentions the Holy Spirit as the gift of God when you accept Christ. In Acts, the believers receive the Holy Spirit. At Jesus' baptism, the Holy Spirit comes from Heaven in the form of a dove and the Father says 'This is My Son, with whom I am well pleased."
But I do agree the term "trinity" humans made up. However, each part of God is referenced multiple times.
So it is possible for elements of your religion to have been invented by man? Holy Shit! I thought it came from the full and perfect authority of God himself, who by his authority, shows that his existence cannot be conceived by man, except by him having told us through the prophets and the holy ghost writers! There is no way the Christian God was made up. Just everyone else's gods! Those are all delusional inventions of man, no way that can be real.The only proof of Odin is in the Eddas!
HOLY,HOLY,HOLY-The LORD appeared to Abraham as three men,God of Abraham,Issac, and Jacob(3).Moses died at 120(40x3),The Seventh day in Genesis 2 mentioned (3x) ,Noah's Father Lamech died 7-7-7(Three digits) Noah had THREE sons which spread out the earth, Jesus started his ministry around 30-lasted 3 years,commandment to Baptise in Father,Son,H/S. Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the mount (Mtt 17. 3/3)Jesus died at age 33. Humans have 33 spinal vertebrae. Trinity throughout the Bible.
@halfie25 Yes. If He was not fully God and fully man He could not be the perfect bridge between a Perfect God and IMperfect us. There would be no reconciliation for our rebellion against Him and the entire Bible would be pointless and meaningless.
@dbanner126 Actually that is not entirely accurate. Man had perfect communion with God before the fall. So why would we need a Roman pagan god man? Answer that question and I'll connect the dots for you.
@aTrueHybrid Maybe a private message would have been more appropriate? Lol but its no problem bud. Can you just send me a clarification? Hard to notice continuity to your argument because I can't piece all this stuff together.
@aTrueHybrid is the same way, a part of scripture might say "moses and his wife became one". Does this mean that Moses and his wife became one, single entity? No, of course not, so why do we attribute this same logic to all the scripture about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit? And what about how we cant be Christians unless we believe this? You're not trinitarian but do you still think under this rule?
The word Trinity derives from Pagan mythology but that does not mean God isn't 3 in 1. He clearly explains the distinct roles of each in scripture. I could show you if you want me to.
@joshmb24 Yeah I know you can show me but it's just pieced together from various verses, no one actually explains it for anyone, it's just theory strung together from unrelated verses.
@furQuil Didn't write anything down? They wrote entire gospels, including john who's specific gospel is 90% doctrine. So where is the Trinity within it? Nowhere.
@RAJTeunis Uhm no, they didn't write the gospels. They couldn't write first off, they were illiterate. Second, the story was told to several people before it was ever written down, by the time the gospels were written all of the original authors would have been dead.
@RAJTeunis But yea I'll give you that the trinity isn't in the bible, it was a concept created like pretty much everything else in Christianity to try and make Christian ideology to make sense. Spoiler: there also wasn't a Satan in the Old Testament, not the same one as in Christianity.
The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4 "Why have you lied to the Holy Spirit?... You have not lied to men but to God!" God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are one.
2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." And you already agree that Jesus is God. So if Jesus is God. and The Spirit is God. Logically they are all equal. Hence the idea of the trinity.
@aTrueHybrid I certainly don't deny that Jesus is in some form or another God or the sone of God or maybe both. Like I said in the vid, I'll just leave that as the mystery
The translation notes in my bible say that part wasn't added until "very late", so it's safe to assume the author of 1 John did not write any such thing.
The trinity is the Father, the son, and the Holy ghost which is biblical, where in the bible does it say that the trinity means 3 separate Gods? no where, the trinity simply symbolizes, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit being one with each other. God the Father who sent his Son to die for us so that we could be forgiven of our sins and so the Holy Spirit could enter into this world to aid us and be our spiritual helper.
@5thWatcher do i get a cookie or something for finding a passage where Jesus differentiates between himself, god the father, and the holy spirit....John 14 verse 15-31
The trinity is nowhere in the Bible and it is far more likely referring to more than one God, specifically when God refers to "Us" as in more than one God at least twice in Genesis.
Of course you can be a Christian without believing in the doctrine of the Trinity but you are a Christian that just doesn't know the Bible very well. In the Bible the Holy Spirit is indeed called God. Additionally He possesses all the characteristics of Deity, He's eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. He is referred to as the Creator, God and the Lord. He raised Jesus from the dead which is also attributed to God. Next time you're reading the Bible look for the scriptures.
@frederickj3 Why does everyone automatically assume I am of the opinion that I think the three "persons" of the Trinity are separate entities? What about what I said implies that? I specifically said I don;t have a position.
@5thWatcher I am not assuming anything about you except that you have bitten off more than you can chew in this instance. Three distinct Divine Persons are present at baptism of Jesus. If not then Jesus is in the water, speaking to Himself out of heaven and descending upon Himself in the form of a dove. I like your stuff debating the atheists but your theological vids are over your head. Stay on fire for God, keep reading the Bible, find a good church and ask your pastor about these things.
@frederickj3 The limits you'd like to propose say god can't do this? But... he's... God. What's stopping him? All I am saying is take the Bible at it's word, and don't invent some theory after the fact, which is what the trinity does, tries to invent some theory.
@5thWatcher The Trinity is not a theory, it is a proper noun used to describe the plurality in unity of the God of the Bible. The word Incarnation is not found in the Bible and yet the Word was made flesh. Incarnation is a theological word used to describe a Bible doctrine. Same with Trinity. These are not "invented theories". In John 16:13-15 Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, Himself and the Father as three distinct Persons working in perfect unity. + there are many, many more in the OT and NT
@frederickj3 I don't a single issue with anything in the Bible about it, it's just that I don't think the scriptural evidence upholds the catholic definition of the trinity. Beyond that, I'm fine with the mystery and I don't question what Jesus says about it, but I don't want to put words in his mouth either.
Though I'll also say, I don't really mind what anyone else believes either.
In Acts 5:3-4 Peter specifically says that the Holy Spirit is God. In 2. Cor. 3:17 Paul calls the Holy Spirit "The Lord". The Holy Spirit is eternal (Heb 9:14) The Holy Spirit is Omniscient (1Co 2: 10-11) The Holy Spirit is Omnipresent (Ps 139:7-10) The Holy Spirit is almighty (Matt 12:28, Luke 11:20, Rom 8:11) The Holy Spirit is referred to as the creator of man (Job 33:4) The Bible also says God created man (Gen 1:26; Note the use of "Let us create man)
That why Muslims told you that Jesus is just a prophet the same as prophet Muhammad. There is only One God that Jesus, Moses, David, Muhammad submitted and prayed for. That what we need to follow.
lso 1 John 5:7b-8a 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. KJV - this is a huge support for the trintiy doctrine
U can actually look into the greek version and find out 2 sent were added
I stopped believing in the trinity for along time now. Scripture says, DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN". N thats what the people did when they created the trinity theory. They tried to make it ezier for us to understand but it actually created a new argument and reason to condemn others. "If you dont believe what I believe about the Most High God, then u are doomed for hell" Help us Lord!
@5thWatcher 1 Cor 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
It's funny, I saw my friend (a biblical unitarian) debating a trinitarian. To my dismay, not only did the trinitarian some unexpected valid points, but also came to the debate with a purpose. He supposed that biblical unitarians don't accept the mystery of the trinity because it wasn't logical & these creatures desired to put God in a box. Now the point you make is that those of the council of nicea did just that thing that the trinitarian was repulsed by when voting on the trinity. Interesting!
So are we arguing that the Holy Ghost isn't real OR are we saying that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost is all the Same and just not all different/same?
@adammaltais This is the hardest thing to grasp about this video because it is human nature to want to understand. I am simply saying that we don't actually know. And the Trinity, as an attempt at an explanation, is a human born theory and is not in any way from the mouth of God. My argument is that since we don't have enough information, we can't pretend to know.
was Jesus praying to him self than in the garden of getsemane? was Jesus geting the streanth of healing power from him self? who manifested it self in the dove when Jesus got baptized? it apears that ether Jesus had split personality disorder or he was getting his streanth from other being for he left his god hood in heaven and therefore becomed example how we can make contact with God.
I gotta admit,I didn't think I'd agree with you here,but you make a good point...But here's my question,does that mean the "spirit of God",the holy spirit,etc,are just the Father?But then why does Jesus say"The father,son,and the holy spirit"?Just wondering...
@SuperMalario7 Well one of the main points of this video is simply that while that is a good question, we have no definitive answer from any authoritative source on that matter, so we must simply accept that we do not and likely cannot know, at least in this life.
Jesus Christ is God manifested in the Flesh. There's only one God. Mathew spoke of the baptism as the father, son and holy spirit but was not supposed to be interpreted as three Gods. The Trinity is man-made false doctrine. The Lord God is One Lord. In the books of acts it states to baptize in the name of Jesus because if you baptize in the name of Jesus your baptizing in the Name of the father, son and holy ghost. All the fullness of the Godhead is in Jesus Christ our Lord and savior
Hey bro, great video's! Another example is when Jesus asked one if his followers 3 times of his faith...Now I believe in the trinity, but in a spiritual way, not the same but apart. Just the same...Its easier to understand God in that sense.. You and I can see God in this way, but we need facts! And there are tons of claims, but little evidence. For me The Holy Spirit is the part of God that interacts with us.. JUST MY OPINION!
@InventorGorilla Well it may be easier to understand by adding Gods it's not right to do it. Our God is a jelous God. Isaiah 43 verse10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord and my servent whom I have Chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I even, I am the Lord and beside me there is no savior. ( there Is only 1 God who sent himself in the flesh of Jesus)
LMAO, "The Trinity is a human fairy tale". I love how religious people pick and choose what they think is real and what they agree with me to be a fairy tale. Dude, the same people who brought you the Trinity brought you the Bible.
...come on, put the pieces together.
eventhisidistaken 1 week ago
you should do me a favor and research and make a video on hell, because that is man made as well.
shadybrain3424 2 weeks ago
@shadybrain3424 also lucifer and the devil/satan are two different people.
shadybrain3424 2 weeks ago
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My Heavenly Father gave me a revelation about the meaning of 666, the number of the beast. It was yesterday close to 6:00 PM. I was thinking about the mark of the beast and suddenly, the Light came in! It's glorius and it's for this time. Most of the serious Bible scholars know that the words “…in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Spirit, and these three are one”, are in fact an apocryphal addition to the original text, that can be traced back as far as the 16th Century.
michaeldayofthelord 2 weeks ago
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The added words "these three are one" MATCH PERFECTLY Revelation 13:16 "Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six. (American Standard Version) The Trinity Doctrine is the name of the beast. That meaning can be understood more likely in all the languages of the world, even chinese, korean, japanese, that could not understant the earlier explanations with the Latin Language
michaeldayofthelord 2 weeks ago
ಠ_ಠ
Anden026 2 weeks ago
Lolz, he isn't making a case at all, just showing that he doesn't understand it. "the first use of this term blah blah" yeah cause the first use of the word homosexual was invented in X date therefore they don't really exist and they are just a figment of your imagination LOLZ. Just because people only realize something later on, doesn't mean it never existed. on the contrary that is how knowledge is gained, you learn things you don't know. you can't learn things you already know.
Bagsy84 1 month ago
It is more constructive to talk about the Illuminati, than to talk of the mystery of the Holy Trinity. As it stands, the "cardinality" on the trinity is such that the Crown Revelation of the Immaculate Conception (Marian Apparition/Woman standing on the sun), the historical figure of Jesus the Christ, and the Pope in the work of the Holy Spirit are equally creative, redemptive and mediative alike. But this notion is still an Illuminatic notion! I will get in trouble for saying this on youtube
newagecozaki 2 months ago
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@5thwatcher, You said in the video: "To be fair there is a lot of Scripture to say that Jesus is God and vice-versa but there is nothing that includes the Holy Ghost in that."
This seems to contradict your comment made to littlesteviebeaumont; you said, "I never made any claim as to the nature of the Holy Spirit."
It seems that littlesteviebeaumont's claim that the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4) should and must be considered.
wlemusic 2 months ago
@5thwatcher, "Why did it take so long? That means all the Christians between the time of Jesus and the time of 325 A.D., first Council of Nicea, including the apostles are burning right now because we had no concept of the Trinity?"
Your argument is flawed. One could make the same argument for why Christ took 10s or even 100s of thousands of years before coming to save us.
God is not on our timetable. A sloweness for a doctrine to be defined does not disprove its veracity.
wlemusic 2 months ago
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wlemusic 2 months ago
I think the trinity was appropriated from the pagans, and only a coincidence in John's Gospel. But that Gospel I regard as Pagan anyway.
martynblackburn1977 3 months ago
i have no opinion other than it wouldm be a far better world if more theists were like you.
HolyHogShit 4 months ago
Its not in your version because you are reading a bogus translation. Read 1 John 5:7 in the King James Version.
whittle4u 4 months ago
@whittle4u It's a fact of history that the verse was added later, sorry.
5thWatcher 4 months ago
@5thWatcher What, your crazy, the KIng James Version was first before all current English translations used today, Post a link backing up your claim.
whittle4u 4 months ago
@5thWatcher yeah and revelations was also added later.
btw even john 1.1 isn't vague, the guy just chose not to read the whole chapter. lolz. yeah that is like complaining about a newspaper headline and saying " ITS SO VAGUE, WHERE ARE THE DETAILS" DUH, its a headline.
read the rest of the paper.
Bagsy84 1 month ago
@whittle4u Dude, I am not linking to anything, because this should be common sense. When did king James version come out? was it 1400's? 1500's? What do you think people read before that? The fact is that thanks to modern anthropology, we have uncovered many older copies of biblical texts, and as of now we have far more early copies of Bible books than we did when King James came out. New Translations are based on older manuscripts. Google Nag Hammadi, Dead Sea Scrolls, and P52 to get started.
5thWatcher 4 months ago
@5thWatcher What does common sense have to do with biblical knowledge? The King James version was created in 1611 from the original manuscripts. The Nag Hammadi are Gnostic books and not Biblical. The dead sea scrolls are just copies of books we already have, and what does that have to do with 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. KJV Even without that verse, it is clear that the trinity is in fact biblical.
whittle4u 4 months ago
@whittle4u That verse is not in the original manuscripts, look up johanna comma in wiki or encyclapedia, you will see that does not belong in any translation
Jahdiel6382 2 hours ago
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. 1 John 5:7 KJV Everyone knows that Jesus is the word. "the word became flesh"
whittle4u 4 months ago
Yes the word Trinity is not in the bible but neither is the word bible in the bible.
As far as the Holy ghost Being God Acts 5:3-4. Many more for sure, but want to make sure you read this
littlesteviebeaumont 4 months ago
@littlesteviebeaumont I never made any claim as to the nature of the Holy Spirit.
5thWatcher 4 months ago
"Then Mary said to the angel, 'How can this be, since I do not know a man?' And the angel answered and said to her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God'" (Luke 1:34,35).
nadeanefaye 4 months ago
@nadeanefaye This verse neither confirms nor denies either side.
5thWatcher 4 months ago
"Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: 'Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness'" (Heb. 3:7,8). This is a quotation from Psalm 95:7-11.
nadeanefaye 4 months ago
"And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters" (Genesis 1:2)
"You hide Your face, they are troubled; You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust. You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the earth" (Psalm 104:29,30).
"You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, and did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, and gave them water for their thirst" (Nehemiah 9:20).
nadeanefaye 4 months ago
"And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit have sent Me" (Isaiah 48:16). "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you" (John 14:26). "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me" (John 15:26).
nadeanefaye 4 months ago
"God anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit and with power. "The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ -- He is Lord of all -- that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him" (Acts 10:36-38).
nadeanefaye 4 months ago
@nadeanefaye All these verses neither confirms nor deny either side. If anything they show a separateness.
5thWatcher 4 months ago
1 John 5:7
JesusisLord738 5 months ago
The bottom line is this: God is one yet God has to be 3 persons within this unity. If not, then Jesus cannot be divine, by definition.
If Jesus isnt divine then his claims to be God must be false. Yet he forgave sins, did miracles, taught, accepted worship all in his OWN authority, not God's. Why did Thomas call him 'My Lord and my God'? If Jesus isnt divine, God sacrificed someone else - an act of vengeful appeasement - not selfless love. So Jesus HAS to be divine - 1 of 3 persons of one God
MrJayguess 6 months ago
@MrJayguess Hello, I just read your comment and was wondering if you could be the one to answer this question: How does one sacrifice ones self to ones self? Can you borrow money from your left pocket and pay it back with your right? This is a fundamental flaw to Christianity which is completely overlooked. Also bear in mind that Yahweh invented sin in the first place. Thank you.
IamLiterallyRetarded 5 months ago
@IamLiterallyRetarded So to whom was Jesus sacrificed? If to an aloof vengeful god then that is not the God of whom Jesus spoke, nor that of the OT. As a man, Jesus suffered like any other human, paying the price of sin - yours and mine. However, as God, he showed the ultimate sacrifice of laying down his own, divine, life as an act of unconditional, absolute love. Without the divinity of Christ the crucifixion makes no sense - and the resurrection makes even less sense if that were possible.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@IamLiterallyRetarded Part2: By the way, God did not 'invent' sin. Although Genesis is an allegorical Hebrew poem, it still relates the profound message that God created things perfect - humanity had no shame in being naked as an example. Nor did humanity sin. So to say God 'created' sin is a rather strange concept. That he dealt with sin through Jesus and allowing humanity free will to choose to sin or not is not questioned. But only when humanity went its own way did things go pear-shaped.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess God, being an omniscient being, would have known exactly how things were going to turn out. So before "he" even began he knew it was not going to work out. Would you spend a week making something if you knew with 100% certainty that it would not work? And on top of that would you invent arbitrary rules about needing a sacrifice when the inevitable happened? No rational being would behave like that. Is Yahweh insane?
IamLiterallyRetarded 5 months ago
@IamLiterallyRetarded "God, being an omniscient being, would have known exactly how things were going to turn out." Absolutely. But the choice is: 1. Create a perfect humanity that had no concept of evil or 2. Create humanity that could chose, by freewill, evil or good. The first creation is of automata, who love because they know no difference. The second have the CHOICE to love God or not. True love is not a compelled love but a love that is by CHOICE. The price is worth paying for Freewill.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
Aside from all that stuff though, you started the video saying some people have said that your not a Christian if you don't believe in the trinity.
That is a false belief, Jesus is the way to salvation, not belief in the trinity.
God Bless
fundreamer1 7 months ago
@fundreamer1 amen. to be honest I think I had you confused for someone else when I said that. but thank you for being cool about it.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
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@fundreamer1 Jesus does not exist. You fail on an epic level.
josan2964 6 months ago
@fundreamer1 Interesting comment, but I must add that if one believes that Jesus is the way to salvation, then his divinity MUST be part and parcel of that belief. Otherwise the theology of the Cross is meaningless, and the crucifixion and resurrection make no sense. And dont forget his Great Commission at the end of Matthew's gospel where Jesus himself uses Trinitarian doctrine. True belief in Christ (cf. Thomas' exclamation 'My Lord and my God!') MUST take on board his humanity AND divinity.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess Jesus also said he is Lord and Master, I believe firmly that Jesus is the flesh of God (The word made flesh) but I have read nothing in the Bible that suggests that salvation is only for people that believe this.
Jesus said that he is the door, if we knock he will open it, he never said he would only open the door if you accepted him as God.
fundreamer1 5 months ago
@fundreamer1 But acceptance of Jesus IS accepting his Divinity. Jesus claimed to be divine (he forgave sins, performed miracles in his own name, accepted worship, taught in his own authority etc) and blessed Thomas when he realised that Jesus was his Lord AND God. One can only love Christ with one's whole heart, soul, mind and strength if one accepts his divinity. Anything less shows a half-hearted acceptance. Jesus was not just a moral teacher - he never left that option open to us.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess There are many people that believe in Jesus the messiah but reject him as God.
Jesus himself said that he is the way to God for us, he also said that if we reject him before man, he would reject us before the father.
As I said, I firmly believe that Jesus is the flesh of God, only a divine messiah could save us from sin, I never tried to say otherwise.
"....whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
NOT believeth on him "as God"
fundreamer1 5 months ago
@fundreamer1 Actually, Jesus never claimed to be 'the way to God'. he claimed to be the way to the FATHER - a very different, and Trinitarian concept. I take your point about your belief in a 'divine Messiah' , but if there is ONE God, and if Jesus IS divine that means he IS God. Otherwise you fall into the trap of the JW who has to claim Jesus is a 'god' (whatever that means) as they reject his divinity.
If you would like to discuss this in friendship, email me on the site.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess God the Father is the same. I'll pm you.
fundreamer1 5 months ago
Wow, I had no idea you felt that way. I must have just missed this video all of this year or so I've known about you. It's almost ridiculous how similar your beliefs are to mine! I love you, man.
awesomenessguess11 7 months ago
Are you saying that there is not trinity, or that there might be, but there might not?
Awesomeoneofawesome 7 months ago
@Awesomeoneofawesome Might be, might not, and that the Bible doesn't give quite enough information for us to make a judgement call.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher
okay, phew. because i still believe in the trinity
Awesomeoneofawesome 7 months ago
@Awesomeoneofawesome Well, I mean, that's fine and all of course, but actually the scope of possibilities aside from the Trinity specifically are not all that different.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
Jesus never said "I am God", BUT ANOTHER MAN in the bible did, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 8 months ago
Your deduction regarding the trinity is correct. it was added.
Why exactly this happened and became approved by the ecumenical council is open to speculation, however i would wager it would have allot to do with the preferences of pagan converts who had previously worshiped triune Gods (Triple-Mother-goddess .etc)
Christianity wasnt always spread peacefully after-all and a great way of imposing your beliefs on others is to adopt elements that already exist in their religious tradition
types10000 8 months ago
I believe, now this is a loose analogy, Father,Son, Holy interactive DVD, with write and re-write. We are three, body, mind, and spirit. Here is God's revelation of three in one. I think we make it so complicated, we lose sight that it is described as nuteral gender, as in comforter. I beleive if Catholic dogma is involved in any way especially, the translation from the Greek, It should be questiones as if it's a lie. You go bro.
1952puddin 8 months ago
1 John 5:7 (King James Version) 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
this comes from an atheist
bye guys
16thunder 9 months ago
@16thunder Coming from an atheist I understand why such ignorance was posted. Check out: /watch?v=JulqQ-cV8GQ
Here's my video on the matter: /watch?v=0UvFInsOlFY and also /watch?v=8HKWmBgqmfc
TheGenuineChristian 9 months ago
@TheGenuineChristian First of all not all atheists are ignorant. But let me tell you that i stated that this whole trinity is not correct to Christians(In shocks chat room) and they back it up with that bible verse, and many others but those didn't make much sense, but that one blow my mind . And yes thanks for the links I'll look more into it. I remember reading a book where the trinity was mentioned and proven false. But i never found that verse in there neither here to be refuted. Thx again.
16thunder 9 months ago
@16thunder That's what my channel is dedicated to; proving the Trinity and the 'Jesus is the Almighty God' doctrine as nonsense. Bart D. Ehrman, in his book Misquoting Jesus, does a fine job on explanation how the KJV rendering of 1 John 5:7 crept into the manuscript that the KJV is based on.
TheGenuineChristian 9 months ago
@16thunder That wording only appears in but a few very late manuscripts - it was added. the original wording was simply (verse 7-8): "So we have these three witnesses - the Spirit, the water and the blood - and all three agree."
5thWatcher 7 months ago 2
@5thWatcher "That wording only appears in but a few very late manuscripts - it was added."
When was it added?
Where is the early manuscripts that don't have it?
fundreamer1 7 months ago
@fundreamer1 "It is missing in all the earlier Greek manuscripts, for it is found in no Greek manuscript written before the 16th century. ...it is found in only two Greek manuscripts of any age - one the Codex Montfortianus, or Britannicus, written in the beginning of the sixteenth century, and the other the Codex Ravianus, which is a mere transcript of the text, taken partly from the third edition of Stephen's New Testament, and partly from the Complutensian Polyglott."
bible*cc/1_john/5-7*htm
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher I find it interesting that you just said that it was not found in any Greek manuscript before the 16th century.
What about the references to the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament?
fundreamer1 7 months ago
@fundreamer1 It'n not interesting, it's a fact.
The Holy Spirit ≠ The Trinity
Mentions of the Holy Spirit only demonstrate that such a being exists; I find descriptions of the holy spirit are too vague to draw any solid conclusions as to it's nature, other than that it's some sort of function or agent of God.
To be continued...
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher A lot of you other Christians come here and seem to think that because I don't buy into the trinity I must be rejecting all three persons in it. No. I accept the son as a my savior, the father as my God, and the holy spirit in my heart. The only difference is I accept the mystery that is the nature of their existence and interplay and don;t try to act like I know more about God than man can truly know.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher "A lot of you other Christians come here and seem to think that because I don't buy into the trinity I must be rejecting all three persons in it."
I am going to assume you mean me with this statement.
I would like to point out that I said nothing either way, I just asked a couple of questions.
The reason I asked about the OT mentioning the Holy Spirit, is that the way it is worded leads me to believe that the Holy Spirit is a part of God.
Would you like me to post an example?
fundreamer1 7 months ago
@fundreamer1 I guess that was an aside, though other people have said as much. You may post an example if you like. I've seen a lot of them. Mostly I feel that while the verses don't contradict the Trinity, they don't vindicate it either.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher Fair enough, maybe we can both learn something here.
I have the KJV so here it is: "Genesis 1:2 ...And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
This one shows what I was talking about.
It does not say that God, or the Spirit God moved upon the waters, it says the Spirit OF God.
"Genesis 6:3: And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man...
But what really clinches it for me is where God created man, he said he created man in his own image (Cont.)
fundreamer1 7 months ago
@5thWatcher When God created man in his own image, he literally created him in his own image in the fact that we have the same three parts that is described about God having. There is God the Father (Our mind or soul, the decision maker) God the son (We are in a body of flesh) And God the Spirit (We have a spirit)
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit...
This is good enough for me.
fundreamer1 7 months ago
@16thunder thats the verse i was going to put down nice job - im a Christian.
JesusisLord738 5 months ago
@JesusisLord738 Actually that verse isn't part of the bible, it was added around 1600+ if I remember correctly... Look after it :)
16thunder 5 months ago
@16thunder actually I have looked after it, I dont know were your getting your source but I'd like to know.
and this is not the only verse that teaches the God head .
JesusisLord738 5 months ago
Read "Evidence that demands a verdict."
sherrys6214 9 months ago
"Pythagoreanism is a term used for the esoteric and metapsihical beliefs held by Phytagoras and his followers, the Pythagoreans, who were much influenced by mathematics and probably a main inspirational source for Plato and platonism."
/wiki/Pythagoreanism
TheLastReformation 9 months ago
"For, as the Pythagoreans say, the world and all that is in it is determined by the number three, since beginning and middle and end give the number of an 'all', and the number they give is the trinity [Greek trias; English = "trinity"]. And so, having taken these three from nature as (so to speak) laws of it, we make further use of the number three in the worship of the Gods." (Aristotle, On the Heavens, Book I, 1)
TheLastReformation 9 months ago
This Greek philosopher's [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions." -- (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
TheLastReformation 9 months ago
The pagan origin of the Trinity doctrine
Regarding the popular Trinity doctrine The Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel stated: "The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches . . .
TheLastReformation 9 months ago
Do you believe that God, the Holy Father, would actually allow someone to claim He shares superiority with another if it were not true? Think of the outcome, my friend. God is absolute perfection and a just God, no one other than is son could make such a claim and not be struck down. God is a SPIRIT regardless of whatever you want to proclaim.So the TRINITY is mentioned several times buddy.
koldkase77 9 months ago
Your last words "just accept the mystery!" is exactly what I hear from the trinitarians all the time.Jesus is the Christ,the Son of the living God,the image and representative of the one he called the Only True God.(Jn. 17:3)The person of Christ died while God cannot.No mystery about that much!I utterly agree that to vote in a council on the nature of God and threaten to banish or kill anyone who doesn't bow to your man-concocted formula is nonsense,even blasphemy,in the highest order.
howdytheresir 9 months ago
@howdytheresir When the Bible says Jesus is the son of God, i simply take that at face value, rather than trying to twist that around to mean God and Jesus are exactly the same being. Biblically speaking Jesus is most certainly probably made of the same substance as God, but if he is "God's son" then that's hardly a strong indication the two are entirely synonymous.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher Christ is described as corporeal,and God is described as invisible.If same substance means both have a divine nature,then I would agree with that much,since even Christians will "partake" of that.Christ and Christians experience "the fullness of God" in that we're a temple in which he dwells.Bodily.
howdytheresir 7 months ago
The first council of the Church happened in 50 AD...280ish years before Nicea. Nothing much happened at Nicea, so it's very easy for us to read the historical reports and documents about what happened. There is bascailly nothing mentioned about the Holy Spirit except for it gets mentioned by name once in a Creed. Otherwise, the Council of Nicea basically attempted to weed out the heresy known as arianism
truthforchrist 9 months ago
I have to disagree with you, there is no support whatsoever for the trinity in the Bible. In fact, there isn't even a "HINT" to a trinity in the Bible.
TheGenuineChristian 9 months ago
@TheGenuineChristian Reading your post, tells me you haven't read your Bible very much, have you?
ISLEDGEI 9 months ago
@ISLEDGEI You want to test my knowledge and see how much you don't know what you're talking about? You're biting way more than you're able to chew. I suggest you go watch my videos and not emberess yourself here by trying to challenge me. Take care.
TheGenuineChristian 9 months ago
Mark 3 29 if God s spirit were not personalized by the bible the sin would be to reject God or his commandment but the bible seems make a point of saying his spirit I think you have excepted his spirit the job of the spirit I believe is to lead us to Christ we all do see though a glass dimly after all Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life
grapes128 10 months ago
@5th Watcher -- I respect your view. You see the pieces that are there, it's just you probably need to be able to see the picture in a bigger view for your own understanding before deciding one way or another on the matter. No matter what, God bless you and may you walk with Jesus Christ be fruitful and full of love.
wizeman5974 10 months ago
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 28:19). While the term "Trinity" may not be used here, I believe it to be implied. Why would Jesus make a command to baptize in all of these names? I believe in the Trinity, but claim no allegiance to the Catholic church. I do believe the Trinity to be a mystery, it's fullness to be further revealed in the eternal future.
wizeman5974 10 months ago
(Acts 5:3-4) But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
The Holy Spirit is God. And yes you are not a Christian if you don't believe in the Trinity. It is not a human fairy tale.
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
Wow you really are a heretic. And an arrogant one too. This is very sad. There are a lot more verses that prove the trinity. Have you read the entire bible carefully or did you skim around?
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA Watch the insults, sir. I'm happy to discuss this but in an adult way.
Yes, I've read all the totally unrelated verses that are awkwardly strung together in order to clumsily "prove" the trinity. I think what those verses actually reflect is something humanity isn't meant to fully understand. The only thing that's arrogent is humanity's attempt to define it, and to define God.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher You can assume that all you want, but the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ is God. The Holy Spirit is also God. What do you claim about Christ and the Holy Spirit and the Father? Do you see that there are 3 persons the Bible speaks about?
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA (1 of 2) I feel like you didn't understand my position in the video. My position is NOT that I disagree with the Bible. My position is that I don't think the Bible actually says what the Trinity theory thinks that the Bible says, and that the theory is filling in the gaps that the Bible doesn't provide on the topic. Of all the connections, the idea that Jesus is God certainly is the strongest, and based on what the bible says, I do think that Jesus is God.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
(2 of 2) The biggest assumption that the Trinity theory makes is that Jesus is synonymous with the Holy Spirit. I have found no verse in explicit support of that idea or even a verse that might suggest it.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher So then who is the Holy Spirit and who is the Father? Are you assuming a modalistic view of God? Or 3 different gods? Or what?
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA I get that this hard to grasp, but I literally do not have a position. I simply am content with what the Bible says about it, and what it seems to paint is a picture I'd say is pretty incomplete. I simply accept that it is in some part a mystery. Perhaps we'll understand fully once in Heaven. We could find out the trinity is the correct view, I'm just saying we don't have enough info biblically to solidly come to that conclusion.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher You are wrong man the Bible explain the trinity in a lot of place. Now answer the questions: Who is the Father? Who is the Holy Spirit? You already told me that Jesus is God. So who are the rest?
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA The Bible says enough that we can properly assume God is synonymous with "the Father". It is decidedly more vague concerning the Holy Spirit. Based on what the Bible says, if you were to say that the Holy Spirit is an agent of God rather than the same thing as God, that would be a position that is not especially unbliblical. Once again, I just don't think the Bible says enough about it that we can claim to know that what the Trinity theory says is true.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher I really dont get how you can come to this conclusion. Its completely illogical. Even cults would try to say the Bible says the Trinity is not real, but you just want to be in the "I dont know" camp, yet you want to say you are more inclined to believe the Trinity is not true and only Jesus is God? Who is Yahweh in the Old Testament? Who is the Father? Is the Father God or someone else?
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@5thWatcher 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We all, with unveiled faces, are reflecting the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit."
That is explicit evidence that the Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit is a person who talks and feels emotions and thinks. Also if Jesus is only God and no one else then why does God talk to Himself?
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@5thWatcher Hebrews 1 has God speaking about angels and then God speaks about the Son (The Son if Jesus Christ) and says "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever," in verse 8. Why would God call someone else God? Why would Jesus talk to Himself if that were the case? The truth is the Farther is God and was speaking about the Son who is also God.
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@5thWatcher The Holy Spirit in Hebrews 3:7-11 talks and shows He is a person. He also claims to be God by saying that "Your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works for 40 years." He was refering to the Exodus. The Holy Spirit is taking credit here about being God.
If only Jesus is God and no one else why does 1 Peter 1:3 say "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"? Jesus Christ has a God that is not Himself is what it is saying. You are being illogical.
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
Voting on the nature of God lol - Not only is that hilarious, sadly it's true. We can all thank Roman Catholicism for the so-called "trinity", the idea of burning in hell forever (eternal torment), and for spilling the blood of millions of martyrs who were faithful to the Scriptures and what they actually teach. Way to go Rome!
WaitingforChrist 10 months ago
@aTrueHybrid - John 8:24 most certainly is not a reference to the "ehyeh asher ehyeh" claim from Exodus 3:14. The Greek phrase 'ego eimi', properly translated "I am" or "I am he", is a reference to him being the Messiah. Just compare John 8:24 (in context) with John 4:24-25. When Jesus said "I am he" to the Samaritan woman in John 4, he wasn't claiming to be the God of Israel, he was claiming to be his anointed (the messiah).
WaitingforChrist 10 months ago
Hey bro.
1 John 5:7.
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
If that doesn't justify belief in the Trinity in your eyes, I'm sorry.
Like this so it's visible, maybe?<3
hithisisjordan 10 months ago 2
@hithisisjordan
Looking in my NLT Bible, I notice that 1 John 5:7 does not say "the three are one", and notes in a footnote that only "very late" manuscripts say this, which means we can pretty conclusively say that was added in later by a scribe.
Since the authenticity of the confirmation of the Trinity in that verse can be debunked, usually a host of questionable interpretations of many other verses are used in support of the theory, though I'm not convinced by any of it.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher actually, there are no scholars that I have been able to find, who doesn't admit that the 3 are 1, and even the "Father, Son, & Holy Spirit" were definitely added later. The original scripture said, "In MY NAME"
TheYAHnitarian 10 months ago
@hithisisjordan ,this was added around 1500 and was not in ANY of the original manuscripts that any Bible version is based on. WHY was it added? It was a marginal note, ADDED by a human, to a manuscript in about the year 350. Please research it. Blessings to you~
66thPsalm 10 months ago
I don't believe , but that said , I was raised in a Christian family so I have read and studied the Bible. . I never accepted their trinitarian viewpoint however. First, the Trinity was invented by the Council of Nicea. Second, the OT clearly rejects the concept, for instance " Hear, Oh Israel , the Lord our God is One God".
LoopQuantumGravity1 11 months ago
I agree, the Old testament was all about monotheism and if anything Jesus would be considered the child of God who by dying brought the spirit of Truth, never referred to as a God, but rather, a spirit from God, and was described as a kind of being that dwells inside of them and makes intercession to God and teaches them stuff. This trinity could very well be blasphemous for the purpose of proselytizing other religions. It's was a very Pagan time in Nicaea during 325 a.d, Word.
TheLaunchingPad 11 months ago
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV
enieusma 11 months ago
@enieusma
Looking in my NLT Bible, I notice that 1 John 5:7 does not say "the three are one", and notes in a footnote that only "very late" manuscripts say this, which means we can pretty conclusively say that was added in later by a scribe.
Since the authenticity of the confirmation of the Trinity in that verse can be debunked, usually a host of questionable interpretations of many other verses are used in support of the theory, though I'm not convinced by any of it.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
I believe / think , it,s like our own manifestation , The body , The mind and the soul/spirit . All these things are needed to be one . So , in my mind it,s not 1+1+1= 3 but more like 1times1times1= 1
pcrvg0808 11 months ago
You could also use Genesis 1:26 my friend...It implies plurality of deities. I really love your videos man. Keep up the good work. God bless.
praXsad12 1 year ago
I notice that you asked a lot of questions of how come??
You are reading & have already made up your mind not to accept His truth. God's truth can only be revealed to you if you don't go into it with such sceptisism. Read His word and let it speak to your heart then it will be revealed to you! It's all there brother if you would just allow it to be revealed. You were right, "trinity" isnt biblical. Neither are the words" bible" or "rapture". BUT IT'S ALL REVEALED!!
Keep reading bro
jehernandez74 1 year ago
Continued... is not in the bible and, for me, is not something that cannot be debated or molded differently. No where does it say you will go to hell for not beleieving in a three in one God especially since Jesus really didn't care to mention anything like it. But again, we still draw conclusions from things in the bible that are ambiguous or inconspicuous. So just because the bible does not say trinity does not mean that it is not true. For me, I do beleive in the trinity but I'm all ears also
whwsjackfrost 1 year ago
I disagree. What about the various scriptures that use "the spirit of God" rather than just God? What about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I mean i do hate when Christians automatically default someone to paganism or atheism because they do not subscribe to the same doctrine and, even worse, don't ask the person to state their case. However, I still contend that there are three partsto God. Or to be completely fair there may be even MORE parts to God. But you are right the word trinity...
whwsjackfrost 1 year ago
"Explain the Trinity, lose your mind. Reject the Trinity, lose your soul." Haha I've heard that before. By the way, Jesus mentions the Holy Spirit as the gift of God when you accept Christ. In Acts, the believers receive the Holy Spirit. At Jesus' baptism, the Holy Spirit comes from Heaven in the form of a dove and the Father says 'This is My Son, with whom I am well pleased."
But I do agree the term "trinity" humans made up. However, each part of God is referenced multiple times.
dbanner126 1 year ago
Please watch my series on the The truth about the Trinity if you want to see tons of scriptures on what the bible teaches us to believe. God bless!
Godlovestruth 1 year ago
So it is possible for elements of your religion to have been invented by man? Holy Shit! I thought it came from the full and perfect authority of God himself, who by his authority, shows that his existence cannot be conceived by man, except by him having told us through the prophets and the holy ghost writers! There is no way the Christian God was made up. Just everyone else's gods! Those are all delusional inventions of man, no way that can be real.The only proof of Odin is in the Eddas!
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
HOLY,HOLY,HOLY-The LORD appeared to Abraham as three men,God of Abraham,Issac, and Jacob(3).Moses died at 120(40x3),The Seventh day in Genesis 2 mentioned (3x) ,Noah's Father Lamech died 7-7-7(Three digits) Noah had THREE sons which spread out the earth, Jesus started his ministry around 30-lasted 3 years,commandment to Baptise in Father,Son,H/S. Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the mount (Mtt 17. 3/3)Jesus died at age 33. Humans have 33 spinal vertebrae. Trinity throughout the Bible.
MrEmeraldfusion 1 year ago
So is Jesus God?
halfie25 1 year ago
@halfie25 Yes. If He was not fully God and fully man He could not be the perfect bridge between a Perfect God and IMperfect us. There would be no reconciliation for our rebellion against Him and the entire Bible would be pointless and meaningless.
dbanner126 1 year ago
@dbanner126 Actually that is not entirely accurate. Man had perfect communion with God before the fall. So why would we need a Roman pagan god man? Answer that question and I'll connect the dots for you.
halfie25 1 year ago
@aTrueHybrid Maybe a private message would have been more appropriate? Lol but its no problem bud. Can you just send me a clarification? Hard to notice continuity to your argument because I can't piece all this stuff together.
RAJTeunis 1 year ago
@aTrueHybrid is the same way, a part of scripture might say "moses and his wife became one". Does this mean that Moses and his wife became one, single entity? No, of course not, so why do we attribute this same logic to all the scripture about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit? And what about how we cant be Christians unless we believe this? You're not trinitarian but do you still think under this rule?
RAJTeunis 1 year ago
The word Trinity derives from Pagan mythology but that does not mean God isn't 3 in 1. He clearly explains the distinct roles of each in scripture. I could show you if you want me to.
joshmb24 1 year ago
@joshmb24 Yeah I know you can show me but it's just pieced together from various verses, no one actually explains it for anyone, it's just theory strung together from unrelated verses.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher IE no one in the Bible.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@5thWatcher Hey bro.
1 John 5:7.
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
If that doesn't justify belief in the Trinity in your eyes, I'm sorry.
hithisisjordan 10 months ago
The apostles didn't write anything down because they were illiterates.
furQuil 1 year ago
@furQuil Didn't write anything down? They wrote entire gospels, including john who's specific gospel is 90% doctrine. So where is the Trinity within it? Nowhere.
RAJTeunis 1 year ago
@RAJTeunis Uhm no, they didn't write the gospels. They couldn't write first off, they were illiterate. Second, the story was told to several people before it was ever written down, by the time the gospels were written all of the original authors would have been dead.
furQuil 1 year ago
@RAJTeunis But yea I'll give you that the trinity isn't in the bible, it was a concept created like pretty much everything else in Christianity to try and make Christian ideology to make sense. Spoiler: there also wasn't a Satan in the Old Testament, not the same one as in Christianity.
furQuil 1 year ago
The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4 "Why have you lied to the Holy Spirit?... You have not lied to men but to God!" God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are one.
2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." And you already agree that Jesus is God. So if Jesus is God. and The Spirit is God. Logically they are all equal. Hence the idea of the trinity.
MasklessJRAF 1 year ago
@aTrueHybrid I certainly don't deny that Jesus is in some form or another God or the sone of God or maybe both. Like I said in the vid, I'll just leave that as the mystery
5thWatcher 1 year ago
1 john 5: 7 these three are one...peace brother
Scriptwriter11 1 year ago
@Scriptwriter11
The translation notes in my bible say that part wasn't added until "very late", so it's safe to assume the author of 1 John did not write any such thing.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
The trinity is the Father, the son, and the Holy ghost which is biblical, where in the bible does it say that the trinity means 3 separate Gods? no where, the trinity simply symbolizes, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit being one with each other. God the Father who sent his Son to die for us so that we could be forgiven of our sins and so the Holy Spirit could enter into this world to aid us and be our spiritual helper.
Bugsykato 1 year ago
@Bugsykato I never said anything about separate Gods.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher do i get a cookie or something for finding a passage where Jesus differentiates between himself, god the father, and the holy spirit....John 14 verse 15-31
jsmallwood2007 1 year ago
@Bugsykato
The trinity is nowhere in the Bible and it is far more likely referring to more than one God, specifically when God refers to "Us" as in more than one God at least twice in Genesis.
church7089 1 year ago
@Bugsykato dont be stupid
youareweirdify 1 year ago
Of course you can be a Christian without believing in the doctrine of the Trinity but you are a Christian that just doesn't know the Bible very well. In the Bible the Holy Spirit is indeed called God. Additionally He possesses all the characteristics of Deity, He's eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. He is referred to as the Creator, God and the Lord. He raised Jesus from the dead which is also attributed to God. Next time you're reading the Bible look for the scriptures.
frederickj3 1 year ago
@frederickj3 Why does everyone automatically assume I am of the opinion that I think the three "persons" of the Trinity are separate entities? What about what I said implies that? I specifically said I don;t have a position.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher I am not assuming anything about you except that you have bitten off more than you can chew in this instance. Three distinct Divine Persons are present at baptism of Jesus. If not then Jesus is in the water, speaking to Himself out of heaven and descending upon Himself in the form of a dove. I like your stuff debating the atheists but your theological vids are over your head. Stay on fire for God, keep reading the Bible, find a good church and ask your pastor about these things.
frederickj3 1 year ago
@frederickj3 The limits you'd like to propose say god can't do this? But... he's... God. What's stopping him? All I am saying is take the Bible at it's word, and don't invent some theory after the fact, which is what the trinity does, tries to invent some theory.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher The Trinity is not a theory, it is a proper noun used to describe the plurality in unity of the God of the Bible. The word Incarnation is not found in the Bible and yet the Word was made flesh. Incarnation is a theological word used to describe a Bible doctrine. Same with Trinity. These are not "invented theories". In John 16:13-15 Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, Himself and the Father as three distinct Persons working in perfect unity. + there are many, many more in the OT and NT
frederickj3 1 year ago
@frederickj3 I don't a single issue with anything in the Bible about it, it's just that I don't think the scriptural evidence upholds the catholic definition of the trinity. Beyond that, I'm fine with the mystery and I don't question what Jesus says about it, but I don't want to put words in his mouth either.
Though I'll also say, I don't really mind what anyone else believes either.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
In Acts 5:3-4 Peter specifically says that the Holy Spirit is God. In 2. Cor. 3:17 Paul calls the Holy Spirit "The Lord". The Holy Spirit is eternal (Heb 9:14) The Holy Spirit is Omniscient (1Co 2: 10-11) The Holy Spirit is Omnipresent (Ps 139:7-10) The Holy Spirit is almighty (Matt 12:28, Luke 11:20, Rom 8:11) The Holy Spirit is referred to as the creator of man (Job 33:4) The Bible also says God created man (Gen 1:26; Note the use of "Let us create man)
frederickj3 1 year ago
That why Muslims told you that Jesus is just a prophet the same as prophet Muhammad. There is only One God that Jesus, Moses, David, Muhammad submitted and prayed for. That what we need to follow.
khairilazizi 1 year ago
lso 1 John 5:7b-8a 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. KJV - this is a huge support for the trintiy doctrine
U can actually look into the greek version and find out 2 sent were added
OChristFollower 1 year ago
I stopped believing in the trinity for along time now. Scripture says, DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN". N thats what the people did when they created the trinity theory. They tried to make it ezier for us to understand but it actually created a new argument and reason to condemn others. "If you dont believe what I believe about the Most High God, then u are doomed for hell" Help us Lord!
Thanks for this vid bro
OChristFollower 1 year ago
@OChristFollower What verse is that?
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher 1 Cor 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
OChristFollower 1 year ago
@5thWatcher 1Cr 4:6
FocusOnGod 1 year ago
@FocusOnGod Is that a compliment?
5thWatcher 1 year ago
It's funny, I saw my friend (a biblical unitarian) debating a trinitarian. To my dismay, not only did the trinitarian some unexpected valid points, but also came to the debate with a purpose. He supposed that biblical unitarians don't accept the mystery of the trinity because it wasn't logical & these creatures desired to put God in a box. Now the point you make is that those of the council of nicea did just that thing that the trinitarian was repulsed by when voting on the trinity. Interesting!
lsmile4food 1 year ago
So are we arguing that the Holy Ghost isn't real OR are we saying that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost is all the Same and just not all different/same?
adammaltais 1 year ago
@adammaltais This is the hardest thing to grasp about this video because it is human nature to want to understand. I am simply saying that we don't actually know. And the Trinity, as an attempt at an explanation, is a human born theory and is not in any way from the mouth of God. My argument is that since we don't have enough information, we can't pretend to know.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
was Jesus praying to him self than in the garden of getsemane? was Jesus geting the streanth of healing power from him self? who manifested it self in the dove when Jesus got baptized? it apears that ether Jesus had split personality disorder or he was getting his streanth from other being for he left his god hood in heaven and therefore becomed example how we can make contact with God.
lucyfer1972 1 year ago
I gotta admit,I didn't think I'd agree with you here,but you make a good point...But here's my question,does that mean the "spirit of God",the holy spirit,etc,are just the Father?But then why does Jesus say"The father,son,and the holy spirit"?Just wondering...
SuperMalario7 1 year ago
@SuperMalario7 Well one of the main points of this video is simply that while that is a good question, we have no definitive answer from any authoritative source on that matter, so we must simply accept that we do not and likely cannot know, at least in this life.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher Ah,good point.I guess in a sense,it really doesn't matter whether or not the Spirit is God.
Interesting fact I heard,the Hebrew word for "Holy Spirit"is feminine.Suggesting the Holy Spirit is a woman.
SuperMalario7 1 year ago
Jesus Christ is God manifested in the Flesh. There's only one God. Mathew spoke of the baptism as the father, son and holy spirit but was not supposed to be interpreted as three Gods. The Trinity is man-made false doctrine. The Lord God is One Lord. In the books of acts it states to baptize in the name of Jesus because if you baptize in the name of Jesus your baptizing in the Name of the father, son and holy ghost. All the fullness of the Godhead is in Jesus Christ our Lord and savior
bridges1990 1 year ago
@bridges1990 I like your style.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
Hey bro, great video's! Another example is when Jesus asked one if his followers 3 times of his faith...Now I believe in the trinity, but in a spiritual way, not the same but apart. Just the same...Its easier to understand God in that sense.. You and I can see God in this way, but we need facts! And there are tons of claims, but little evidence. For me The Holy Spirit is the part of God that interacts with us.. JUST MY OPINION!
InventorGorilla 1 year ago
@InventorGorilla There is nothing wrong with opinion, it's just good to differentiate opinion from conclusive word from God.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@InventorGorilla Well it may be easier to understand by adding Gods it's not right to do it. Our God is a jelous God. Isaiah 43 verse10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord and my servent whom I have Chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I even, I am the Lord and beside me there is no savior. ( there Is only 1 God who sent himself in the flesh of Jesus)