For acting, you can compare anybody, but if you're interested in comparing characters and portrayals of certain types, Rorschach has more in common with Batman than the Joker (even moreso when he was younger and in his words "soft on criminals"). As far as comparing The Joker with a Watchmen character... what about the Comedian? Basically the same worldview, just manifested differently. Blake would love the Joker's rant about "schemers."
I'd have to go with Heath ledger. it's easy to play a character exactly as he is on the page. the problem with Watchmen was that the director was sticking too closely to the comic book. We all needed innovation for batman. in that sense, Heath ledger was innovative.
Watchmen may have followed the comic book slides too closely in places and failed to get the pacing right or to create the right tone or impact, but I don't think that it needed the kind of innovation you seem to be implying. I would not have been pleased with an "innovative interpretation of Rorschach" and I doubt many others would have either.
Sorry to keep commenting, but I find this discussion, and the distinctions that should be made in it, very interesting.
As far as the "innovation" and "straight off the page" argument goes, it's a bad comparison because, traditionally, the character of the Joker is a 2-dimensional villain. Ledger and the director gave him psychological depth and realism. Rorschach on the other hand... has always been a fully realized, three-dimensional character, even in the graphic novel.
As many have said, it's not a fair comparison. They're extremely different characters. I don't think Ledger completely came up with the "new spin" on the Joker either, so it's not even a "play it straight" vs "innovation" thing either. Ledger was fantastic, definitely, but he had more freedom as an actor. Rorschach is very contained, but Haley made him compelling. Ledger was working with a character who embraces chaos, while Haley was working with a character who embraces a strict, absolutism.
I feel that both performances are two COMPLETELY different things. Rorschach is a character from one book where you have the Joker with a 70 year history with thousands if not millions of books. It's like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars or Nicholson's Joker to Romero's Joker, it's kinda pointless. Still, I believe both performances are INCREDIBLE!!
Well i have to say is that i saw The Dark Knight in theaters 8 Times.yeah i am that crazy Heath Ledger did an amazing job as the joker the best!!But i also have to say is that i have watched Watchmen 6 times and am going to see it agian this weekend i Love Jackie Earle Haley's performance as Rorschach and that makes me want to see it any chance i can get but to even think that one of them is better than the other i could not even if it was life or death sorry man i could not answer your question
Well to start with, the mask read his facial movements and the shapes are a major part of it.
Secondly, why are you answering who's the better joker? That's not the question at all. I'm saying what's better? The performance as it is on the page (Rorschach) or a new and inspired vision (The Joker).
Oh and if you don't think Haley gave an epic performance with the mask on, you need to watch it again.
yea HAHA they have about the same amount of air time, I think they are both are oscor winner performences because the way they present their characters makes you love them even more, Rorschach in 2 scenes summs up how great he was when he could not say anything to the child killer because he was so upset and he just killed him which shows his emotional side to the character, and when he says I am not stuck in here with you, you are not stuck in here with me.
xinsanity10000 took the words right out of my mouth. They're two totally different animals, I don't see how it's fair that you can compaire the two. As far as oscar worthy, I only saw Watchmen once and while I loved Rorschach in the movie I would have to go back and watch it a second time to really judge if it were oscar worthy or not They're both great characters and played very well by the actors who portrayed them If I had 2 choose between 1 or the other right now I would have 2 say Joker
first of all, i think it is unfair to compare Nolan's Joker to past Jokers. if a person were to watch both movies, having never heard of or read either comic, then i think that Ledger's Joker would win over Haley's Rorschach. both actors did very well conveying a stiff and quite insane aura for their characters, but the performance that ledger put on with his voice combined with his character's jerking-yet smooth movement, i feel out-did haley's last-minute tears. Haley still did an amazing job.
it's also sort of unfair to compare the two performances. The Joker has a very outspoken insanity, while Rorschach is a bit less...flamboyant. This gave Ledger a lot more to work with as far as performance. Haley (although staying true to the character) was given less opportunity to really perform.
JEH did a great job as rorschach. I teared up *SPOILERS* when he died and I read the GN. I don't usually do that but i just felt like rorschach was my best friend in the whole world. I didn't feel any effect by heath. don't get me wrong ledger gave a great performance but I go with Rorschach. plus, he would kick his ass
its late commenting since most of these PPLare not answering your question, it has to be heath ledgers joker, what I loved about heaths joker is he brings a precence to the movie. Because he was only in it under 50 minutes, but you know he could pop out at any time his ability to completly control the crime wave of gotham city that no one would grass joker to batman, when he captured a fake batman and he went so angry when he wanted the fake batman to look at him you felt for the fake batman
I would say Rorschach isn't in Watchmen as much as everyone else, and it's an ensamble cast and he's still the most powerful character in the entire film.
Having to play off all those people and he's the one people remember is a big deal as well.
i believe Haley did a wonderful job, the only thing that kept me captivated during the 2 and half hour film WAS haleys peformance. dnt get me wrong, Ledger did an outstanding job as the joker. but when i think about it Haley owned the whole entire movie, the ironic part is that he was able to give such a deep performance for a character whose FACE u barely even get to see. think about it. i give them both props. very great actors, the best so far of my time i must say.
Both are Oscar, but.... I have to go with Rorschach over the Joker. Leadger was cool, and by that I mean: mindblowing, but I knew who was the better when I saw Rorschach's last scene in Watchmen. Man, I almost cried, Haleys tears where so real. If that isn't Oscar worthy, then I know a place where they can put that Oscar. And it isn't in an actors hands.
Well, it's unfair because both these performances are outstanding. Ledger reinvented the character (As far as film versions!), but Haley needed to create the character from off the page. Right now, I'm still buzzing about Watchmen and Haley's work. I suppose Haley since the story gave him more levels to play around, but less face time. He had to put his whole body into the role in every second.
One final thought:
For acting, you can compare anybody, but if you're interested in comparing characters and portrayals of certain types, Rorschach has more in common with Batman than the Joker (even moreso when he was younger and in his words "soft on criminals"). As far as comparing The Joker with a Watchmen character... what about the Comedian? Basically the same worldview, just manifested differently. Blake would love the Joker's rant about "schemers."
stephantom 2 years ago
I'd have to go with Heath ledger. it's easy to play a character exactly as he is on the page. the problem with Watchmen was that the director was sticking too closely to the comic book. We all needed innovation for batman. in that sense, Heath ledger was innovative.
Regenmacher175 2 years ago
Watchmen may have followed the comic book slides too closely in places and failed to get the pacing right or to create the right tone or impact, but I don't think that it needed the kind of innovation you seem to be implying. I would not have been pleased with an "innovative interpretation of Rorschach" and I doubt many others would have either.
stephantom 2 years ago
I don't think the joker is 2-dimensional. look at the Killing Joke for example.
Regenmacher175 2 years ago
Sorry to keep commenting, but I find this discussion, and the distinctions that should be made in it, very interesting.
As far as the "innovation" and "straight off the page" argument goes, it's a bad comparison because, traditionally, the character of the Joker is a 2-dimensional villain. Ledger and the director gave him psychological depth and realism. Rorschach on the other hand... has always been a fully realized, three-dimensional character, even in the graphic novel.
stephantom 2 years ago
As many have said, it's not a fair comparison. They're extremely different characters. I don't think Ledger completely came up with the "new spin" on the Joker either, so it's not even a "play it straight" vs "innovation" thing either. Ledger was fantastic, definitely, but he had more freedom as an actor. Rorschach is very contained, but Haley made him compelling. Ledger was working with a character who embraces chaos, while Haley was working with a character who embraces a strict, absolutism.
stephantom 2 years ago
On the other hand, Rorschach has the advantage of getting the audience on his side with his heroic last stand. It's moving.
People here seem to be commenting on which character moved them more, but that's more to do with the script/story than the acting performances.
Bottom line, both actors gave excellent performances.
stephantom 2 years ago
I feel that both performances are two COMPLETELY different things. Rorschach is a character from one book where you have the Joker with a 70 year history with thousands if not millions of books. It's like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars or Nicholson's Joker to Romero's Joker, it's kinda pointless. Still, I believe both performances are INCREDIBLE!!
thecanuckmovielord 2 years ago
Rorschach performance was perfect jackie deserves an oscar and yes he was better than the joker
GerardoNT91 2 years ago
I think Rorscharch owns but the Joker is way better ( in my opinion )
Ryunosuke18 2 years ago 2
Ich könnte MICH persönlich nciht entscheiden.... obwohl....
Rorschach. ♥
quadfahrer 2 years ago
Well i have to say is that i saw The Dark Knight in theaters 8 Times.yeah i am that crazy Heath Ledger did an amazing job as the joker the best!!But i also have to say is that i have watched Watchmen 6 times and am going to see it agian this weekend i Love Jackie Earle Haley's performance as Rorschach and that makes me want to see it any chance i can get but to even think that one of them is better than the other i could not even if it was life or death sorry man i could not answer your question
GOTUeternally 2 years ago
Comment removed
quothetheraven79 2 years ago
Well to start with, the mask read his facial movements and the shapes are a major part of it.
Secondly, why are you answering who's the better joker? That's not the question at all. I'm saying what's better? The performance as it is on the page (Rorschach) or a new and inspired vision (The Joker).
Oh and if you don't think Haley gave an epic performance with the mask on, you need to watch it again.
daftbottv 2 years ago
yea HAHA they have about the same amount of air time, I think they are both are oscor winner performences because the way they present their characters makes you love them even more, Rorschach in 2 scenes summs up how great he was when he could not say anything to the child killer because he was so upset and he just killed him which shows his emotional side to the character, and when he says I am not stuck in here with you, you are not stuck in here with me.
JasonVoorhees6661 1 year ago
Comment removed
quothetheraven79 2 years ago
I'd say they're equal. Perhaps we might have to...
...flip a coin. }:-D
IggyHazard 2 years ago
xinsanity10000 took the words right out of my mouth. They're two totally different animals, I don't see how it's fair that you can compaire the two. As far as oscar worthy, I only saw Watchmen once and while I loved Rorschach in the movie I would have to go back and watch it a second time to really judge if it were oscar worthy or not They're both great characters and played very well by the actors who portrayed them If I had 2 choose between 1 or the other right now I would have 2 say Joker
bowenarrow507 3 years ago
first of all, i think it is unfair to compare Nolan's Joker to past Jokers. if a person were to watch both movies, having never heard of or read either comic, then i think that Ledger's Joker would win over Haley's Rorschach. both actors did very well conveying a stiff and quite insane aura for their characters, but the performance that ledger put on with his voice combined with his character's jerking-yet smooth movement, i feel out-did haley's last-minute tears. Haley still did an amazing job.
xinsanity10000 3 years ago
sorry, had to add:
it's also sort of unfair to compare the two performances. The Joker has a very outspoken insanity, while Rorschach is a bit less...flamboyant. This gave Ledger a lot more to work with as far as performance. Haley (although staying true to the character) was given less opportunity to really perform.
xinsanity10000 3 years ago 3
i think haley job was better, man without rorschach watchmen is just crap.
GerardoNT91 3 years ago
JEH did a great job as rorschach. I teared up *SPOILERS* when he died and I read the GN. I don't usually do that but i just felt like rorschach was my best friend in the whole world. I didn't feel any effect by heath. don't get me wrong ledger gave a great performance but I go with Rorschach. plus, he would kick his ass
GPHazyness 3 years ago
RORSCHACH! he's one of the most AMAZINGLY deep characters in any graphic novel I have ever read.
rhysmyth 3 years ago
that's not what i'm asking at all. Did you listen to the question? It's who gave the better performance.
daftbottv 3 years ago
its late commenting since most of these PPLare not answering your question, it has to be heath ledgers joker, what I loved about heaths joker is he brings a precence to the movie. Because he was only in it under 50 minutes, but you know he could pop out at any time his ability to completly control the crime wave of gotham city that no one would grass joker to batman, when he captured a fake batman and he went so angry when he wanted the fake batman to look at him you felt for the fake batman
JasonVoorhees6661 1 year ago
@JasonVoorhees6661 yeah it's a little late...
I would say Rorschach isn't in Watchmen as much as everyone else, and it's an ensamble cast and he's still the most powerful character in the entire film.
Having to play off all those people and he's the one people remember is a big deal as well.
daftbottv 1 year ago
i believe Haley did a wonderful job, the only thing that kept me captivated during the 2 and half hour film WAS haleys peformance. dnt get me wrong, Ledger did an outstanding job as the joker. but when i think about it Haley owned the whole entire movie, the ironic part is that he was able to give such a deep performance for a character whose FACE u barely even get to see. think about it. i give them both props. very great actors, the best so far of my time i must say.
monstereoscopic 3 years ago
Both are Oscar, but.... I have to go with Rorschach over the Joker. Leadger was cool, and by that I mean: mindblowing, but I knew who was the better when I saw Rorschach's last scene in Watchmen. Man, I almost cried, Haleys tears where so real. If that isn't Oscar worthy, then I know a place where they can put that Oscar. And it isn't in an actors hands.
HUBILUB 3 years ago
Although i thought Haley gave the best performance in the Watchmen Movie by far, I would have to Say Ledger. His Joker was original and terrifying.
Venture999 3 years ago 2
Both are good, but I say Haley gave the better performance but He won't get recognition for it but he does deserve an Oscar.
PS3KUN 3 years ago
The answer, we may never know. I think Haley might get condideration by the academy but he won't get nominated.
Vikings123196 3 years ago
That,Sir, is a really unfair question!
therealmanos 3 years ago
How is it unfair? I'm just asking because I feel it's interesting.
daftbottv 3 years ago
Well, it's unfair because both these performances are outstanding. Ledger reinvented the character (As far as film versions!), but Haley needed to create the character from off the page. Right now, I'm still buzzing about Watchmen and Haley's work. I suppose Haley since the story gave him more levels to play around, but less face time. He had to put his whole body into the role in every second.
therealmanos 3 years ago
do me a favor and ask your friends what they think and send them here. I'd love to see what their opinions on the matter are.
daftbottv 3 years ago