Ooops, I was trying to reply to a post by Ramster211 and accidentally deleted the post
"@flyhighone what does ur prsonal experince flying a cirrus have anything to do with this?"
Question to Ramster211, are you referring to my flying a cirrus as related to a 787 or to a specific post? If its related to a 787, then i'd say that although they are in a different class of plane (big time), they are both aircraft made from composites and there are differences between them an aluminum aircraft.
I fly a Cirrus which is an all-composite aircraft (some parts are not). I have been unpleasantly surprised even disturbed by several unexpected turbulence encounters., however, I cannot imagine how terrifying those passengers and even the A4 pilot must have felt in those moments! My experience flying the Cirrus have been fantastic and I have full confidence in the composite structure especially following an in-flight bird-strike! Lets be honest, knowing I have a parachute is a confidence boost.
A U.S. Navy A-4 Skyhawk was dispatched to the last known position to investigate the disappearance of Flight 911 reported his aircraft suddenly experiencing extreme turbulence with acceleration values of +9 and -4 g causing temporary loss of control, and leading the Navy pilot to believe his aircraft would also break-up in the turbulence. Some of these posts are from memory and some details verbatim from Wikipedia.
@transdrole Although no accidents come to mind resulting from a structural failure of the main wings (mid-air or collision aside), on March 6, 1966, Flight 911, a 707-436 en route from Tokyo to Hong Kong suffered a structural failure resulting from an encounter with CAT (Clear Air Turbulence). The product of the CAT encounter was the structural failure of the vertical stabilizer which then overstressed other aircraft components including the main wings. Continued in next post...
@flyhighone i have a question, i know that airplanes have suffered lightning strikes before. but this is composite, which i understand cannot conduct electricity. What happens if this particular aircraft is struck by lightning?
@Dolphin8097 I am not an engineer, here is what I have learned as the pilot of a composite airplane. In order to make a composite dissipate the effects of a lightening strikes, the aircraft manufacturer embeds a layer of conductive fibers or screens designed to carry lightning currents. For example, unless something has changed, in order to lower costs Cirrus does not include this shielding on its VFR only airplanes and does include it on IFR certified airplanes. Did this answer your question?
Someone knows how much G this plane can withstand?
Composite materials resist more deformations before starting cracks than metalic material (and much more than ceramic material). So, composite structures have longer fatigue life than aluminum or steel ( for the same weight)
@starjack24 Bullshit more flexible does not mean lighter, the flexability is there to prevent fatigue cracking and to handle the loads of extreme turbulence. Do not get confused thinking the wing i flexing because it is weak
@prohelipilot1 more flexible more lighter structure( its good thing >good means positive thing ..is it enough? ) ..and yes its first bullshit that u have to learn about aircraft design..
fleaxibility to prevent fatigue cracking ??:)haha funny :) learn also wat fatigue means, u know u can google it..dont u?
by the way what makes u expert about 787 wings? :) RC pilot?
@heypachuco1991 good, aircraft wings are meant to flex there not stiff it would break right off in turbulence so there flexible and are meant to withstand turbulence beyond what you would expect in a flight.
@Drake4677 When the plane is in the air, the ends of the wings are holding up a large amount of the weight of the plane, so once it touches down and the wheels are holding all of the weight, the wings flex back down to their normal position. This happens to some degree on every single airplane, but the 787's composite wings allow them to flex a lot more.
@alufthansa The smaller planes flying besides the 787 is a "chase plane". Wikipedia definition: This second airplane's crew would keep a constant lookout for problems with the test aircraft, and if problems did arise they would provide warnings and critical information to the test aircraft's crew and to the mission controllers on the ground. They would also monitor the surrounding airspace for other aircraft that could pose a hazard to the flight...
@whitireia As a Boeing fan, I would not complain about the A380 wing flex, it is to be expected when the pilot attempts a carrier-style landing in a passenger aircraft...
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This is one thing the FAA should use to NOT certify this plane. This much wing flex is not normal and not seen on many aircraft. I have spent hours on flightline standby watch all planes. This is an extreme movement and shows the flex of the composit. Now take this flex to 40 below or repeat this day after day. Carbon fiber does not show cracks. It fails sudden. This plane has been delayed because of cracks. It's a design flaw
@bbaker904 Your lack of structural engineering knowledge is apparent. (from an aeronautical engineer who has spent years designing the 787 by evaluating every part down to the smallest details so it is extremely safe for passengers.) You should see how much the wings can bend in a high G manuever, still with plenty of strength to spare.
My knowledge incorrect?? Show me the studies where this wing was tested at flight level temps please. Why is it even today cracks are being found? I have worked in engineering all my life.
@bbaker904 I can't show you the studies because they are proprietary. The composites have been through any worst case testing you can imagine, including cold, hot, wet, UV radiation, impact damage, cyclic loading etc. We design to the lowest strength of everything for safety. The "cracks" are not related to fatigue, but to a max strength issue, which has nothing to do with repeated flexing. The delaminations don't form until a huge load is applied. We test to ensure this doesn't happen.
I spent 2 years in Alaska working for the goverment at Ft Greely. It is the cold region testing location for our goverment. Everything the is bought for military use is sent up there and tested. Until this plane reaches this place for testing under cold winter weather, I will never stand by this planes certifaction. Cold weather testing wads my job, so maybe your engineering knowedge is behind also.
My engineering knowledge is not behind thanks, your spelling/grammar appear to be though. Composites have been around for a long time, we have plenty of history. I would not be surprised if numerous composite military aircraft designed or manufactured by us have already been tested at your facility (B-2, F-22 to name a couple). And besides that, the empennage of the 777 is composite, and by itself proves the long-durability of composites in the cold. We must prove EVERYTHING to certify.
You sure you have been working as an engineer all your life? What do you mean "..not normal.."?? This much wing flex is not seen on many aircraft doesn't mean that it can't be seen here!! It doesn't mean that it's not normal!! To me, you are a design flaw!
By the way, make sure you know how to spell "government" correctly! (* gee.. you call yourself an engineer*)
I'm dyslexic so sorry for any mis-spelling. Spell check doesn't work here. I worked at the cold regions test center in 18984 and 1985 at Ft. Greely Alaska. My job was to investigate failures from cold climate issues. Example of composite failure today is the New International class A Truck. The big 18 wheeler. All new composite front end. So far, 100 bumpers have fallen off in the cold air. Gee, composites hold up well in cold, right?
@wiseman85 No it's the composite material. I drove one of the latest Internationals during winter. A guy wanted to knock of some of the ice collecting on the bumper and flairs. he kicked the ice and his foot went right threw the bunmper. When it got warmer we could see hundreds of cracks at every joint.
@bbaker904 Dude, composite means two or more materials combined. It doesn't mean that the truck bumper is made of the same two materials as this aircraft.
@bbaker904 You are seriously fucking dumb if you are comparing a composite bumper on a truck to the composite construction of a plane. A composite is simply the marriage of multiple materials to form a stronger part. Whoever designed the 18wheeler obviously didn't count on such low temperatures and as such their design was brittle and cracked. If you are designing a composite for the cold, as planes are, then it's a completely different matter.
@2007TypeR You should be removed from ever being able to comment on anything on line. Watch you f words or are you a little kid. You probably don't know the difference between polyethylene and polypropylene do you.? But yet your an expert on aircraft material right? Give it a rest. You opinion doesn't get stronger with fowl words.
lol...Im a GA pilot. I uploaded this video because the motion was so substantial in comparison to a metal wing design that it caught my eye and I wanted to capture it. I do appreciate the explanation, it will definitely help clarify things for others who don't have aviation experience...
The Wikipedia definition: composites are engineered materials made from two or more constituent materials with significantly different physical or chemical properties which remain separate and distinct on a macroscopic level within the finished structure.
Not to confuse the benefits of "flex" in general with the amount of flex you are seeing in the new 787 which appear to be more of a bi-product of the composites used. Some benefits are load distribution & Turbulence Dampening
I am not an engineer and again, wing flexing will happen on all aircraft under certain circumstances. How much a wing flexes is probably a combination of materials used, weight considerations and intended flight envelope.
I got my pilot's license by going to a flight school at my local airports, KVNY and KSMO. I love it and would recommend anyone with a passion for flight to give it a shot!
Every large aircraft does this except fighters which need extremely stiff wings due to the hi g stresses they have to endure. What you're seeing is just the wings settling after the landing. Composite aircraft can flex more uniformly along the wingspan compared to metal wing planes. Be careful what you "imagine" unless you are an aeronautical engineer.
Although fighter aircraft are definitely more rigid then, say, commercial aircraft. If you look at some of the high performance flight video's of F16's, F15's and F18's you will notice some pretty obvious wing flexing during high-G maneuvers and especially so with mounted ordinance.
enjoy you over aged schoolkids
setabretsam 3 months ago
@setabretsam Mostly of us are just airplane geeks ;-)
flyhighone 3 months ago 4
Ooops, I was trying to reply to a post by Ramster211 and accidentally deleted the post
"@flyhighone what does ur prsonal experince flying a cirrus have anything to do with this?"
Question to Ramster211, are you referring to my flying a cirrus as related to a 787 or to a specific post? If its related to a 787, then i'd say that although they are in a different class of plane (big time), they are both aircraft made from composites and there are differences between them an aluminum aircraft.
flyhighone 3 months ago
Nerds debating on youtube....never gets old lol
braceyoself777 3 months ago
i dunno if its good over long time that the wings stretching that much.
Andreasy2 3 months ago
I fly a Cirrus which is an all-composite aircraft (some parts are not). I have been unpleasantly surprised even disturbed by several unexpected turbulence encounters., however, I cannot imagine how terrifying those passengers and even the A4 pilot must have felt in those moments! My experience flying the Cirrus have been fantastic and I have full confidence in the composite structure especially following an in-flight bird-strike! Lets be honest, knowing I have a parachute is a confidence boost.
flyhighone 4 months ago
A U.S. Navy A-4 Skyhawk was dispatched to the last known position to investigate the disappearance of Flight 911 reported his aircraft suddenly experiencing extreme turbulence with acceleration values of +9 and -4 g causing temporary loss of control, and leading the Navy pilot to believe his aircraft would also break-up in the turbulence. Some of these posts are from memory and some details verbatim from Wikipedia.
flyhighone 4 months ago
I can think of No crashes in commercial jet aviation history that were the result of wing structural failure.
transdrole 4 months ago
@transdrole Although no accidents come to mind resulting from a structural failure of the main wings (mid-air or collision aside), on March 6, 1966, Flight 911, a 707-436 en route from Tokyo to Hong Kong suffered a structural failure resulting from an encounter with CAT (Clear Air Turbulence). The product of the CAT encounter was the structural failure of the vertical stabilizer which then overstressed other aircraft components including the main wings. Continued in next post...
flyhighone 4 months ago
@flyhighone i have a question, i know that airplanes have suffered lightning strikes before. but this is composite, which i understand cannot conduct electricity. What happens if this particular aircraft is struck by lightning?
Dolphin8097 4 months ago
@Dolphin8097 I am not an engineer, here is what I have learned as the pilot of a composite airplane. In order to make a composite dissipate the effects of a lightening strikes, the aircraft manufacturer embeds a layer of conductive fibers or screens designed to carry lightning currents. For example, unless something has changed, in order to lower costs Cirrus does not include this shielding on its VFR only airplanes and does include it on IFR certified airplanes. Did this answer your question?
flyhighone 4 months ago
He he :D
kurreproduction1 4 months ago
SHES BEAUTIFULL
balqis23977 4 months ago
Who needs a dihedral with wings this flexible! :)
AmplifiedNonsense 4 months ago
It's beautiful!
DaddyOD13 4 months ago
Does this increase or decrease drag?
livinlow15 4 months ago
@livinlow15 These wings are much lower drag than previous wing designs
prohelipilot1 4 months ago
Someone knows how much G this plane can withstand?
Composite materials resist more deformations before starting cracks than metalic material (and much more than ceramic material). So, composite structures have longer fatigue life than aluminum or steel ( for the same weight)
ThiagoMarquardt 4 months ago
At least its not an Airbust
Giggidygiggidy12 4 months ago
Looks at that! Amazing wingsex.. er flex.
scaremengaviation 6 months ago
More flexible means more lighter .. But there are certain aerodynamic issues that limits flexibility..
starjack24 7 months ago
@starjack24 Bullshit more flexible does not mean lighter, the flexability is there to prevent fatigue cracking and to handle the loads of extreme turbulence. Do not get confused thinking the wing i flexing because it is weak
prohelipilot1 4 months ago
@prohelipilot1 more flexible more lighter structure( its good thing >good means positive thing ..is it enough? ) ..and yes its first bullshit that u have to learn about aircraft design..
fleaxibility to prevent fatigue cracking ??:)haha funny :) learn also wat fatigue means, u know u can google it..dont u?
by the way what makes u expert about 787 wings? :) RC pilot?
starjack24 4 months ago
@starjack24 No Ozan i am a helicopter pilot, and you? I am guessing FSX. After learn to fly good on FSX then go back to school and learn english
prohelipilot1 4 months ago
Long wings straighten out if they are unloaded, just like my glider upon landing. Nothing to worry about.
peanuts2105 8 months ago
I'm a noob @ aeronautical engineering, is this good / bad?
heypachuco1991 9 months ago
@heypachuco1991 good, aircraft wings are meant to flex there not stiff it would break right off in turbulence so there flexible and are meant to withstand turbulence beyond what you would expect in a flight.
houshidar558 9 months ago
Im a noob, but is this a good or a bad thing?
PATTYZ102 10 months ago
A masterpiece of engineering!
SpectreMk2 10 months ago
All those who start fighting instead of watching the videos are DIRTY ASSHOLES.
navikhi 11 months ago
You guys are all idiots. Just watch and enjoy the video.
bjornb18 11 months ago 2
I don't care about that "composite" thing, I wanna get in one of those planes now ! Lol ! ...
tonychikury 1 year ago
why do the wings do that?
Drake4677 1 year ago
@Drake4677 When the plane is in the air, the ends of the wings are holding up a large amount of the weight of the plane, so once it touches down and the wheels are holding all of the weight, the wings flex back down to their normal position. This happens to some degree on every single airplane, but the 787's composite wings allow them to flex a lot more.
Clamwacker 1 year ago
@Drake4677 There holding the weight of the aircraft,
Helicopterpilot16 1 year ago
@Drake4677 because they can.
lmfao if they don't do that they would just be stiff and snap off.
if you look at the A380 the wings are supposed to flex three meters higher at take off.
it would suck to be in a plane without wings that flex like this...
KidThatDoesEverythin 1 year ago
Looks like those air brakes dropped the wings back down to about the neutral position to me.
drbackjack 1 year ago
coolio
vroomba03 1 year ago
Great wing flex indeed, but i do wonder about the smaller planes flying right above the boeing aircraft, what exactly are they measuring ?
alufthansa 1 year ago
@alufthansa The smaller planes flying besides the 787 is a "chase plane". Wikipedia definition: This second airplane's crew would keep a constant lookout for problems with the test aircraft, and if problems did arise they would provide warnings and critical information to the test aircraft's crew and to the mission controllers on the ground. They would also monitor the surrounding airspace for other aircraft that could pose a hazard to the flight...
flyhighone 1 year ago 5
@flyhighone now i know why they for...before reading your comment i thought they were for filming only...
jainish007 10 months ago
Yea its only normal wing flex to die hard Boeing fans.
When A380 landed at Oshkosh airfield all the Boeing die hards complained about the unusual wing flex when she landed.
This Boeing 7late7 wing seems to be made of bamboo by the way it flexes unusually.
In any case time will tell...
whitireia 2 years ago
yeah, maybe becuase the A380 has 2 large engines on a wing?
while the 78 has 1 large engine and was designed to flex?
ApSykesThewolf 2 years ago
Netherless the 787 and A380 are the next generation of aircraft. The are both looking like they will be successful aircraft in their markets.
whitireia 2 years ago
yes and as long as both planes dont crash, im happy.
ApSykesThewolf 2 years ago
@whitireia As a Boeing fan, I would not complain about the A380 wing flex, it is to be expected when the pilot attempts a carrier-style landing in a passenger aircraft...
jamedorr 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is one thing the FAA should use to NOT certify this plane. This much wing flex is not normal and not seen on many aircraft. I have spent hours on flightline standby watch all planes. This is an extreme movement and shows the flex of the composit. Now take this flex to 40 below or repeat this day after day. Carbon fiber does not show cracks. It fails sudden. This plane has been delayed because of cracks. It's a design flaw
bbaker904 2 years ago
@bbaker904 Your lack of structural engineering knowledge is apparent. (from an aeronautical engineer who has spent years designing the 787 by evaluating every part down to the smallest details so it is extremely safe for passengers.) You should see how much the wings can bend in a high G manuever, still with plenty of strength to spare.
jamedorr 2 years ago 10
My knowledge incorrect?? Show me the studies where this wing was tested at flight level temps please. Why is it even today cracks are being found? I have worked in engineering all my life.
bbaker904 2 years ago
@bbaker904 I can't show you the studies because they are proprietary. The composites have been through any worst case testing you can imagine, including cold, hot, wet, UV radiation, impact damage, cyclic loading etc. We design to the lowest strength of everything for safety. The "cracks" are not related to fatigue, but to a max strength issue, which has nothing to do with repeated flexing. The delaminations don't form until a huge load is applied. We test to ensure this doesn't happen.
jamedorr 2 years ago 6
This plane needs to go threw the CRT (cold regions testing center) located at Ft. Greely Alaska before it is certified.
bbaker904 2 years ago
@jamedorr.... very well said!!
Njoyflying 2 years ago
I spent 2 years in Alaska working for the goverment at Ft Greely. It is the cold region testing location for our goverment. Everything the is bought for military use is sent up there and tested. Until this plane reaches this place for testing under cold winter weather, I will never stand by this planes certifaction. Cold weather testing wads my job, so maybe your engineering knowedge is behind also.
bbaker904 2 years ago
My engineering knowledge is not behind thanks, your spelling/grammar appear to be though. Composites have been around for a long time, we have plenty of history. I would not be surprised if numerous composite military aircraft designed or manufactured by us have already been tested at your facility (B-2, F-22 to name a couple). And besides that, the empennage of the 777 is composite, and by itself proves the long-durability of composites in the cold. We must prove EVERYTHING to certify.
jamedorr 2 years ago 2
You sure you have been working as an engineer all your life? What do you mean "..not normal.."?? This much wing flex is not seen on many aircraft doesn't mean that it can't be seen here!! It doesn't mean that it's not normal!! To me, you are a design flaw!
By the way, make sure you know how to spell "government" correctly! (* gee.. you call yourself an engineer*)
Njoyflying 2 years ago 3
I'm dyslexic so sorry for any mis-spelling. Spell check doesn't work here. I worked at the cold regions test center in 18984 and 1985 at Ft. Greely Alaska. My job was to investigate failures from cold climate issues. Example of composite failure today is the New International class A Truck. The big 18 wheeler. All new composite front end. So far, 100 bumpers have fallen off in the cold air. Gee, composites hold up well in cold, right?
bbaker904 2 years ago
Ever seen how much a carbon fibre fishing rod bends
trex82055 2 years ago
@bbaker904 Sounds to me like what is designed to hold the bumpers on is failing.....not the bumpers themselves
wiseman85 1 year ago
@wiseman85 No it's the composite material. I drove one of the latest Internationals during winter. A guy wanted to knock of some of the ice collecting on the bumper and flairs. he kicked the ice and his foot went right threw the bunmper. When it got warmer we could see hundreds of cracks at every joint.
bbaker904 1 year ago
@bbaker904 Dude, composite means two or more materials combined. It doesn't mean that the truck bumper is made of the same two materials as this aircraft.
tabamoura 1 year ago
@bbaker904 You are seriously fucking dumb if you are comparing a composite bumper on a truck to the composite construction of a plane. A composite is simply the marriage of multiple materials to form a stronger part. Whoever designed the 18wheeler obviously didn't count on such low temperatures and as such their design was brittle and cracked. If you are designing a composite for the cold, as planes are, then it's a completely different matter.
2007TypeR 1 year ago
@2007TypeR You should be removed from ever being able to comment on anything on line. Watch you f words or are you a little kid. You probably don't know the difference between polyethylene and polypropylene do you.? But yet your an expert on aircraft material right? Give it a rest. You opinion doesn't get stronger with fowl words.
bbaker904 1 year ago
lol...Im a GA pilot. I uploaded this video because the motion was so substantial in comparison to a metal wing design that it caught my eye and I wanted to capture it. I do appreciate the explanation, it will definitely help clarify things for others who don't have aviation experience...
flyhighone 2 years ago
@flyhighone what is composite exactly?
what is the benefit of the wings flexing?
how did you get your pilot license?
hereHehereHE 1 year ago
@hereHehereHE
The Wikipedia definition: composites are engineered materials made from two or more constituent materials with significantly different physical or chemical properties which remain separate and distinct on a macroscopic level within the finished structure.
Not to confuse the benefits of "flex" in general with the amount of flex you are seeing in the new 787 which appear to be more of a bi-product of the composites used. Some benefits are load distribution & Turbulence Dampening
flyhighone 1 year ago
I am not an engineer and again, wing flexing will happen on all aircraft under certain circumstances. How much a wing flexes is probably a combination of materials used, weight considerations and intended flight envelope.
I got my pilot's license by going to a flight school at my local airports, KVNY and KSMO. I love it and would recommend anyone with a passion for flight to give it a shot!
flyhighone 1 year ago
Every large aircraft does this except fighters which need extremely stiff wings due to the hi g stresses they have to endure. What you're seeing is just the wings settling after the landing. Composite aircraft can flex more uniformly along the wingspan compared to metal wing planes. Be careful what you "imagine" unless you are an aeronautical engineer.
panther105 2 years ago
@panther105
Although fighter aircraft are definitely more rigid then, say, commercial aircraft. If you look at some of the high performance flight video's of F16's, F15's and F18's you will notice some pretty obvious wing flexing during high-G maneuvers and especially so with mounted ordinance.
flyhighone 1 year ago 2
@flyhighone I've seen it, yet there pulling 8g's Plus the 787 won't go near that much!
Helicopterpilot16 1 year ago