A complete refutation of TheGenuineChristian's "irrefutable" video

[kaboomgoo]

Of him......

[kaboomgoo]

You must know that all the versions before KJV had Jn 1:3 saying it instead if him.

[kaboomgoo]

That has nothing do with my point. I guess Calvin and Luther are better? One took books out of the bible the other was a prototype to Hitler. On the Jews and there lies ring a bell? They had people killed and lorded over their brothers. Zech 8:23 God is with who? Are they going to come to the gentiles or are we supposed to go to them for understanding the Father?

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist And again, I've given you the passages where Christ is given the exact same kind/quality of worship as the Father. Are you suggesting that in order to prove that Christ was worshiped as God, then the text must somewhere read, "and they worshiped Him [Jesus] as God"? 

[lion49nfl]

@JesusTheMonotheist MONOTHEISM REALLY do you worship jesus and god the father ??? do you belive the son of god and the father are sperate differnt people if you do you worship both then if you worship both of them THATS NOT MONOTHEISM brother please rethink and reread the bible brother

[lion49nfl]

@JesusTheMonotheist brother are you joking with me jesus came to thomas and thomas saw they christ was risin from the dead and called him MY LORD MY GOD AND WORSHIP HIM he called him god and worship him how much do you even know about your own bible brother this is plainly saying he is god and is worship as god why was jesus put to death for saying he was god

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist In Revelation 22:1-11, it is said that the One who is seated upon throne is given "latreuo," which is used only of religious service to God, never to man. And yet, not only is Christ given this same form of religious service in Revelation 22, but also in Daniel 7:13-14 (LXX).

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist John speaks of the throne of God and the Lamb, not thrones, affirming that Jesus also sits on God’s throne. Moreover, in Revelation 20:11-15 the One seated on the throne will judge the dead. The NT clearly teaches that the Father judges no one but has entrusted all judgment to the Son (c.f. Matt. 25:31-46; John 5:22-23, 27; Acts 10:42, 17:30-31; Rom. 2:16; 1 Cor. 4:5- cf. 1:7-8; 2 Cor. 5:10; 1 Thess. 3:13; 2 Thess. 1:5-10; Heb. 9:28).

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist In Revelation 22:8-9; 19:10 after John fell to the angels feet and worshiped him, the angel forbade it, and said what? "Worship God." And yet in the very same book we find Christ being worshiped in the very same manner that the Father is, not only in Revelation 5, but also in Revelation 22:1-4.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist So at the very least are you trying to tell me that you're a Binitarian?

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist So Christ is given the same kind of worship, He is the object of praise, the recipient of prayer, and joint Possessor and Bestower of grace/blessings -- all on equal footing as the Father.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Jesus is the joint Possessor and Bestower of grace and blessings (2 Corinthians 13:14, Ephesians 6:23, 2 John 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11-12, Galatians 6:18), He is the object of doxologies/praise (2 Timothy 4:1, 8, 18; 2 Peter 3:18; Revelation 1:5-6), the recipient of prayer (John 14:14; 1 John 5:10-15; Acts 1:1-6, 21-24; Acts 7:59-60; 2 Corinthians 12:7-10) -- the very same way the Father is.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Revelation 5 does indeed show that Christ is given the exact same quality of worship as the Father. Here the creatures do not turn to God and give Him worship and praise, then turn to Christ and give Him a different kind of worship and praise -- it is the exact same kind.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist When it is said, "To which of the angels did God ever say, 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet'?" (Hebrews 1:13), it simply does not mean that Christ will be sitting in a secondary throne that is at the right hand of the Father's throne, but that Christ will sit at the right hand of the Father, on the exact same throne, basking in the exact same glory (John 17:5), and receiving the exact same kind of worship.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist And in Revelation 22:1-4, notice that the Son shares the "throne" (singular) with the Father -- "the throne of God and the Lamb."

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist In Revelation 5, as you pointed out, the Lamb is worshiped. But what you fail to realize is that the Lamb is worthy of the exact same kind of worship as the Father.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Your inability to dialogue on any sort of meaningful level aside from your traditional tactic, "you're wrong and I'm right, because I said I'm right" is just simply baffling.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist JW's attempt to erase any evidence of Christ being prayed to, because, just as Chuck McManigal (Jehovah's Witness) wrote, "Prayer is a form of worship. Even The World Book Encyclopedia acknowledges that, stating: 'Prayer is a form of worship in which a person may offer devotion, thanks, confession, or supplication to God.'”

[lion49nfl]

@JesusTheMonotheist John 20:28 this verse you cant be proven wrong no matter what you say JESUS IS GOD

[msm1876]

@JesusTheMonotheist >>>Mark 12:29, 32; Jhn 17:3

Cruzie...I dismantled both of those in this video. The first is about making God your one and only, and the second is about false gods vs True Deity.

>>>Jesus being worshiped as God?

Read Revelation 5:14 and tell me who is being worshipped there.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist While several older translations, such as the KJV, excludes "Me" in John 14:14, the inclusion is overwhelmingly supported by the more notable MSS, such as, P66 (ca. AD 200); P75 (3rd c.); Sinaiticus (4th c.); Vaticanus (4th c.); Washingtonianus (4th/5th c.); 060 (6th c.); Syriac Peshitta (5th c.), as well as others.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Just as Christ directed prayer to Himself, this is exactly what we find Stephen (Acts 7:59-60); Paul (2 Corinthians 12:8-9); John (1 John 5:10-15, Revelation 22:20-21); and Peter (Acts 1:21-25) doing and teaching.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist He does not say, "Whatever you ask in My name, the Father will do," no, He says, "Whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask ME anything in my name, I will do it." It is here that Christ makes Himself the object of prayer, but also, in doing so is presupposing the omni attributes of God.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I do; and greater [“meizon”] works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. *If you ask ME* anything in My name, I will do it.” -- John 14:12-14

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Prayer in every sense of the word is a form of worship. Worship is is a time for supplication, thanksgiving, and adoration to God, and yet in the very discourse where Christ had been comforting His disciples in regards to leaving the earthy realm, and ascending into the Heavenly realm, He says...

(Cont'd...)

[lion49nfl]

@JesusTheMonotheist okay ill ask you this is jesus a sperate person from god ?? if he is not god almighty do you say he is his son do worship the son which is not god almighty and worship the most high as well if you worship the son who is sperate from the father and wroship the most high as well then thats not monotheism and you said sons pural how many sons have dinve power then should we sorhip them as well you viewpoint holds no water brother

[paulgem123]

I would have to agree with you with you about how to be objective in your studies. Since you believe that and you use this method then you should also look at my claims the the Aramaic English NT by aentorg and aramaictruthorg (not the Lamsa version) is so crystal clear the Yehsua is GOD. Beyond a shadow of a doubt. I did not know that thegenuinechristian thought like that but I did see something wrong.

[TheGenuineChristian]

I'll tell you something that probably won't surprise you. I haven't even watched this video. How about this, me vs. you in a youtube debate. You man enough?

[clintjordan]

@TheGenuineChristian While I think the idea of a genuine debate is a great idea, I don't think it would be much of a debate per se between you and he. If your idea of a debate is anything like what you've been exemplifying, that is, with total disregard for what the opposing side is saying, it's no more a debate than it is a monologue. As far as I've seen you haven't dealt, in the slightest sense, with any of the arguments he posed, which is part and parcel of debating.

[msm1876]

@TheGenuineChristian Wait, you've not even watched this video, and yet you tell me I failed, and tell ClintJordan that the vieo is a joke? You're more arrogant than I thought.

A debate? I've kinda already done this whole "Deity of Jesus" debate thing with Ivandefendingtruth. Go watch my "Is Jesus Jehovah" opening statement and see if you can offer a substantial rebuttal. And try answering the crossex questions...Ivan didn't do too well on either front.

[TheGenuineChristian]

@msm1876 Nah, I'm not interested in watching videos unless it's a debate between me and you. Take care.

[HeroOfChristArchives]

@msm1876

5:40

At John 1:3, παντα δι’ αυτου εγενετο is literally translated, "Everything through him had come to be." The Greek δι' (i.e., δια, written as δι’ before a subsequent vowel) means "through, on account of, because of" but not "by". The Greek word for "by" (genitive case) is υπο, a form appearing only thrice in the fourth gospel (8:9, 10:14, 14:21). Most modern versions (e.g., ESV, NIV, NASB, NLT, HCSB, etc.) correctly translate δι’ as "through" in the sense of God's creative λογος.

[lion49nfl]

@msm1876 Brother keep up with your vids kill dis arian myths preach the truth JESUS IS LORD HE IS GOD KING AND SAVIOR GOD BLESS

[clintjordan]

@msm1876 Personally, I think you should approach this fellow in debate, that is, only if he'd be willing to actually interact with you on a meaningful level. Debate over the Trinity in and of itself would be extremely wide scale, which one could not cover in a short period of time. Instead, might I suggest narrowing the topic of debate down a bit, perhaps, "According to Scripture, was Jesus the recipient of prayer?" or "Is the Holy Spirit a Person, or an inanimate force?"

[lion49nfl]

@JesusTheMonotheist Brother the Godhead is what sperates biblical monotheism and other faiths of monotheism our God onesness is greater and more complex then allahs or juadism"s god or any others 1 GOD THE ETERNAL TRINITY OR GODHEAD

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Not quite, Trinitarianism is monotheism. Monotheism is a tenet of the Trinitarian faith, we do not believe in three Gods, we are not Arians.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist That's the entire point. Prior to the incarnation (v. 1-3) Christ did not have a beginning. It isn't until v. 14 that Christ takes on the flesh, where He is found in the likeness of man.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist This is pure silliness at best. The question was concerning the PRE-INCARNATE Christ, "BEFORE Christ came to earth," not while He was on earth. So you need to rethink your answer in the context of Christ existing prior in the flesh, as a man.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist You miss the entire point. John 1:3 emphasizes on the eternality of Christ. "All things came into being" through Christ, and without Him nothing that has come into being came into being. "All" created things that have come "into being," came into being through Christ, which follows that Christ did not "come into being."

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Likewise, the expression in John 1:1c, “the Word was God” does not identify the Word as the Person whom He is “with” (John 1:1b), rather, all the qualities, characteristics, and nature of God are predicated to the Word. The Word shared the exact nature/essence of the Father, though they differed in Person from one another, thereby making them ontological equals, or at the Athanasian Creed puts it, “Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead.”

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist “Eve” is not identified or equated with "Man,” but rather, the qualities, characteristics, and nature of "Man" are predicated to “Eve.”

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist The passage teaches that the Word, as to His essential nature, is God. It is after all, the nature of God which makes God, God (Galatians 4:8). To expound on this a bit further, the expression “Eve was Man” is not an example of identification, but that of predication.

[clintjordan]

@JesusTheMonotheist Trinitarians also affirm that Jesus existed "with" the Father, not as the Father.

[msm1876]

@JesusTheMonotheist Yes, the Logos was made flesh and came to earth. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying originally, before he came to earth...where does it say the Logos was made in John 1:3?

[msm1876]

@JesusTheMonotheist So, then, we admit that the Logos was not made?

[21crosscheck21]

@msm1876 Interesting how the Divine cannot be beyond what is seen in the natural world. How can Jesus be God and be with God etc...... Lame

[msm1876]

@JesusTheMonotheist Interact with the video, quit barfing prooftexts, or get 'em deleted, Cruzie.

[barbsinclair]

God gave answer to Jn17:3, in Jn14:6-7. IF Yuri with JWs, read the Bible in context, the Holy Spirit of truth would of shown this to them:

Jn14:6-7 "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth you know him, and have seen him. ...17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Thank the only true God for His answer

[barbsinclair]

lol to funny, yrui runs to another translation. this only serves to prove yrui is still confounded (Gen11:7) and in the darkness.

"In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." Jn1:4-5

God said: "Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness." Lk11:35

[KeithTruth]

He brought up the coptic in our debate on my channel. He removed his videos but mine are still there. He was refuted on that so long ago bro so I don't understand why he keeps making that argument. He changed his christology again? Will pray for that guy. I like him but he has a bad attitude and hope he will be saved and defend true christology one day.

[barbsinclair]

@KeithTruth

I met Yuri few years ago on Paltalk & YouTube. I used to listen/read Christians refute his debating of scripture, and marvel: all these Christians pretty much agreed as one in Spirit and Truth on the deity of Christ the Lord as God manifest in the flesh. And here we are again correcting Yuri; the Christian body is still saying the same things to him. Amazing all these Christians come from different gatherings world-wide, yet we all have the same word in unity of Holy Spirit of truth.

[TheGenuineChristian]

@KeithTruth

I find it most amusing that you came to my channel and dropped a comment while still having me blocked so I can't comment on your channel. It makes me wonder if I should block you in return. Hmmm, blah, you'll get the same as you do to others. =P

[Alliedtonone]

such bullshit

[clintjordan]

I'd just like to point out real quick that concerning John 1:18, the Sahidic Coptic also supports μονογενής ("monogenes") as meaning no more than, "only," or "only unique," not "only-begotten" -- "God the only Son" (c.f. ESV, NIV, NAS).

[TheGenuineChristian]

You fail. =)

[clintjordan]

@TheGenuineChristian The joke is on you.

[TheGenuineChristian]

@clintjordan Glad to see someone thinks this video is a joke besides me. >=)

[barbsinclair]

@TheGenuineChristian

God said: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, WE speak that WE do know, and testify that WE have seen; and ye receive not OUR witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" John 3:11-12

The Tri-Unity of God is Jewish. Here is a Messianic Bible Study From Ariel Ministries - The Trinity:

arielm . org/dcs/pdf/mbs050m . pdf

The audio recording link for the pdf notes:

arielm . org/dcs/mbs050/dcs050 . htm

[TheGenuineChristian]

@barbsinclair You realize I was just testing out how people would react right? You must be out of your mind if you think I'm going to go to any website you or any else recommends. I'm set in stone on my theology, putting my soul on it. Yup, there's nothing you or anyone else can say to convince me to believe in your demonic doctrine you call the Trinity. Bye. =)

[SpecialPioneerSmerf]

@TheGenuineChristian Your a Troll =)

[TheGenuineChristian]

@SpecialPioneerSmerf trollololol. =P

[SpecialPioneerSmerf]

@TheGenuineChristian t(-_-t)

[kennythekettle]

I don't think I've ever commented on your videos before, but they are pretty good. very in-depth and useful for when I'm dealing with my JW friends etc .

:)