@Scattnam LOL Denmark, Sweden and Norway always show up as the top ten best countries in the world, ahead of the US, in terms of quality of life and healthcare system. "Soviet Russia" Ahahahaha!!! The Soviet Union collapsed in 1990! Ahahahhaah you are sooo ignorant!!!! You must be the typical unbelievably stupid Republican from a Bible-belt state. I'm sure you even deny Darwin's theory of evolution. Hang yourself, you ignorant fat fuck! I can't believe you belong to humankind.
Socialism DOESN'T WORK! USE YOUR FUCKING HEADS! WHY DO YOU THINK RUSSIA COLLAPSED? WHY DO YOU THINK CUBA AND NORTH KOREA ARE IN POVERTY!? ITS BECAUSE OF SOCIALISM! WAKE UP LIBTARDS, SOCIALISM AKA COMMUNISM FUCKING FAILS!
@Scattnam Yes, another unbelievably ignorant Republican. Listen, you incredibly stupid man, Liberal Socialism is not Communism!!! There's communism in Cuba and North Korea, NOT Liberal Socialism! There're so many great countries in Europe based on Liberal Socialism that have standard of living HIGHER than the US. Ever heard of Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany? Well, those are countries based on Liberal Socialism. Go back to you triple-decker cheese burgers, french fries and 100 beers, now.
@salvyy YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID!!!!!! I am not fat you retard you must be an anorexic cunt if you think I am. Im 5 8 121 lb ya fucktard liberal.2ndly where the fuck did you get info about Norway Sweden having HIGHER standard of living? bahh bahh you speak sheep from the liberal propaganda. that's what they WANT you to think, retard. It's no wonder people are stupid enough to listen to Ron Paul who isn't even a conservative, look at his foreign policy! ITS LIBERALISM!
@Scattnam U watch too much Fox News, u Republican fat fuck. You don't even know the existence of the Scandinavian countries. U're too ignorant to know what I'm talking about. How can I speak with someone who mixes Liberal Socialism with Communism? U must go through pain to realize the benefits of Liberal Socialism. Thus, I hope you get a cancer you'll not be able to cure bc you don't have enough money to get a surgery. Only then you'll realize how important it is to have the govern. on ur side.
@salvyy YOU ARE A FUCKING PRICK! Benifits of LIBERAL SOCIALISM! ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF 50% OF ALL THE MONEY YOU EARN GOES TO THE GOVERNMENT YOU FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT! I HOPE YOU FUCKING DIE YOU FUCKING CUNT! YOU DUMBFUCK IM NOT FAT I BET YOU ARE AN ANOREXIC FUCKING CUNT! little bitch better watch you mouth or ill beat the shit out of you fucking looser. Global Warming is BAD ARE YOU STUPID OR WHAT GLOBAL WARMING IS A FUCKING HOAX BAHH BAHH LIBERAL TALK BAHHHHHHH
@Scattnam LOL in Sweden ppl pay 50% taxes but education and health care is free. I have friends in the US who got a basic education and left college with hundreds of thousands in debt. I have friends in the US who could not get a simple surgery bc it was too expensive. They had to leave the country to be cured. I am happy to pay higher taxes knowing that if something happens to me I can go to a hospital. I'm happy to pay higher taxes knowing that I can get an education.
@salvyy Education starts with the individual and after reading your comments you have failed at. You have comments where you name call and use profanity and you show that you lack knowledge in a lot of subject. People in Sweden may get "free" education but in the states we have a better education system and more intelligent individuals. We aren't given everything so we learn to problem solve and think for ourselves where other countries lack those skills.
@whyamimrpink78 "In the states we have a better education system and more intelligent individuals". LOL I know there're very smart ppl in the US, but I also know that ppl like you and Scattnam do not belong in the category of the "smart people" in the US. I honestly believe that the world has never experienced in its history the presence of ppl as ignorant as the typical Republicans living in the so-called Bible-belt states. The free system in Europe has never generated ppl as stupid as them.
@salvyy Really. One of my professors was from Europe and he said that there are just as many dumb people in Europe as there are in the states. In the states when you don't get an education you can still make it by starting a small business or being creative. We promote free thought where people like you enjoy being brainwashed and think that reciting "facts" displays your intelligent. If you are so intelligent then why do you depend on the government for everything?
@whyamimrpink78 Yes, of course, there are dumb people everywhere, unfortunately. In Europe too. I travel a lot, but I have to admit that I have never met in Europe or anywhere else in the world people with a level of ignorance, absurdity and stupidity that match that of the Republicans I have met in several parts of the US. That is obscene ignorance. How could those clueless people have the right to vote risking to create monsters like Bush? I'll never understand that.
@Scattnam "GLOBAL WARMING IS A FUCKING HOAX". You stupid fat fuck redneck Republican from a Bible-belt state, you are sooo ignorant! A chicken is smarter than you. You truly represent the worst that society can offer. You truly are the shit of humankind. I do hope you get that terminal cancer and disappear: the world will be a better place without ignorant fat fucks like you. Go back to Fox News, double-burgers with bacon, and 100 beers. Enjoy it, you disgusting ignorant fat fuck.
@salvyy hey liberal garbage, GIVE ME A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL!!! you fucking piece of shit. Ever heard of Al Gores lies!? YOU ARE FUCKING CLUELESS! 75,200,000 AMERICANS BELIEVE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE! STOP SPREADING YOUR BULLSHIT PHYSCHO SCIENCE YOU FUCKING BRAINDEAD LIBERAL! Fuck you FUCK SOCIALISM!
@CHTWillCome723 :-) The only illogical thing is to realize that ignorant people like you and Scattnam belong to humankind and have the right to vote. You people really are the embodiment of absurdity. Ignorance at its best.
@salvyy That's your opinion and that's fine, but the fact is Liberals have made this country look weaker than it ever has before. And liberals don't care because they love their unemployment/welfare checks along with their nonsense. I could go on for days, but I have better things to do right now.
@CHTWillCome723 " the fact is Liberals have made this country look weaker than it ever has before". Why, because the Liberals haven't invaded any country yet or waged any fake wars killing thousands of innocent people just to make money? The US under the Obama administration has gained a lot of admiration and respect in many parts of the world. The US under the horrendous Bush admin. was hated in every corner of the world. Have fun doing better things...Fox News and cheeseburgers with bacon?
@CHTWillCome723 :-) What's the nonsense part? Please explain. Make me laugh again. I don't need to convince anybody: ppl with basic intelligence already know what I say. Last thing: the next time the Reps are in power and wage another fake war like the one in Iraq only to steal resources, killing thousands of people, don't act as a disgusting hypocrite: go to war yourself and see what it is like. Maybe, you'll open your eyes then and will realize how nonsense and absurd the ppl you support are.
@salvyy First of all I don't really like Republicans, and I am NOT a Republican. Maybe you should think before talking ignorance. Anyways, one example of Obama making us look weak is him trying to basically ask for our downed Drone that landed in Iran. America shouldn't ASK for something that technologically advanced to be given back. That's just ONE example. Until terrorism and evil is gone (probably wont be for a long time) in this world, America needs to stay on top.
@CHTWillCome723 I'm against terrorism and I support the US fighting it. I hate it when the Republicans start wars only to steal others' resources, killing thousands of innocent people. The war in Iraq was a fake war. So many good American young soldiers died in vain. What for? Only to safeguard the interests of Bush&Cheney. C. Powell had the dignity to resign because he knew that the war was based on lies. How can a normal person support the Republicans? Only ignorant ppl like Scattnam can.
@CHTWillCome723 I am glad to realize that you are not a Republican. In a fair, ideal world, Independents will be in power and truly work for the benefits of the community. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and we need to make sure that the lesser of the two evils wins. I know the Dems aren't the best, but the free world cannot afford to end up in the hands of hypocritical, ignorant monsters like Romney or Newt G. That will be really bad for the US and the world. All best.
@CHTWillCome723 Obama could do more. If you're not as ignorant as a Republican, you might know that several fair reforms he proposed were blocked by the Republicans. You can't say that Obama is as bad "if not worse" than monsters such as Romney or Gingrich. That hypocrite of Gingrich is against higher taxes for the rich and keep saying very stupid things. For instance, he says he wants to create a US colony on the moon. Come on, man, how can one put Obama on the same level as someone so stupid?
@salvyy Alright I'm done talking to you. Obama is not worthy for re-election, sorry. Go ahead and keep trying hard and wasting your life trying to convince people that he is though. Have a nice life.
@CHTWillCome723 Republicans like Romney and Gingrich would lead the US to its ruin and will constitute a threat for the entire world, just like the Bush admin. was. Obama is not the ideal choice, but I hope that the Republicans will keep eating their burgers and french fries, read the Bible, getting fatter, and stay out of power. They are too absurd and ignorant to lead the most powerful country in the world. Have a great existence as well.
@salvyy YOU ARE A DUMBFUCK! Since when are Republicans fat? dumbshit you liberals are consumerist hogs. Look at Michael HE IS A FAT FUCK JUST LIKE YOU! Unlike fattie shits I am actrually healthy weight, 5'8" 120 pounds. You libTARDS just don't get it. GINGRICH AND SANTORUM ARE THE ONLY HOPES! Romney is a liberal. We need candidates who support defining marriage, who support a free market with no regulations Remove all enviormental regulations like "Clean Air Act"
@Scattnam "GINGRICH AND SANTORUM ARE THE ONLY HOPES! " LOL Yes, the best choices if we lived in a world full of ignorant fat fucks like you! LOL Santorum thinks that we descend from Adam&Eve and denies Darwin's theory. He is as stupid and ignorant as you. "We need candidates who support defining marriage" LOL Yes, Gingrich supports "defining maririage"...he's an expert in the field with 3 of them. Hang yourself, you hypocrite stupid Repub. fat fuck. Can't believe you exist in the first place.
@salvyy <-- FASCIST COMMUNIST FUCKER! I bet you want BIGGG GOVERNMENT OMFG YOU WANT SOCIALISM? FUCK YOU WHY DON'T YOU BRAINWASHED FUCKS EVER USE GOOGLE? NONE of the European countries even come CLOSE in terms of standard of living why??? THERE IS NO FREEDOM NO FREE MARKET ITS ALL FUCKING SLAVERY I BET YOU ARE A FUCKING COMMUNIST AKA SOCIALIST FUCKER!
@Scattnam "WHY DON'T YOU BRAINWASHED FUCKS EVER USE GOOGLE? NONE of the European countries even come CLOSE in terms of standard of living" LOL You cannot possibly be for real. You must be a fantasy or perhaps you just pretend to be so stupid to gain attention. I refuse to accept that humanity could give birth to someone as absurd and ignorant as you. But you are too funny, I have to admit.
@Scattnam LOL Never heard of the glaciers melting in the Artic sea? The natural balance of the planet is collapsing in front of our eyes and you still have doubts? You Republican fat fucks really are incredibly ignorant. I still do not comprehend why worthless fat fucks like you live in the first place. You're a threat to humanity. "75 million Americans believe global warming is a lie"?! I respect the American ppl too much and I am sure that the remaining 325 million are not as stupid as you.
@salvyy You know, other planets have gone through climate change as well without man being on them. Look at Venus, there is evidence of it once having water, thus life and now look at it, it went through natural climate change. Ever thought that maybe the earth goes through natural climate change and man isn't the cause? Oh, i forgot, the "free" government run education brainwashed you into believing something so they can control you. Keep being a good comrade.
@whyamimrpink78 :-) The liberal governments in Europe don't brainwash ppl. It's the stupid ppl like Scattnam, for example, who get brainwashed by certain media like Fox News and certain absurd political "leaders" like Bush, Santorum, Palin & Co. Only a brainwashed ignorant could think that Liberal Socialism equals Communism. Only a stupid person could think that the climate change happening now is good for the planet.
@salvyy I bet you never even watch fox news. I don't because I can't afford to because I don't get a government check to buy it but yet I still pay high taxes. You rip on something without even looking into it. I just amazes me how brainwashed someone can be. But I guess when you are being a good little comrade and you fear that the government is going to take away you way of life then you have no choice.
>" GIVE ME A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL"
Subscribe to any reputable scientific journal that addresses the subject and start reading (Science, Nature, etc) Virtually 100% of scientific papers accept it as reality. You can also try scientists' blogs.
>75,200,000 AMERICANS BELIEVE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE
Since when does the number of people believing a claim imply validity of truth?
>FUCK SOCIALISM
Scientific understanding is irrelevant to political preference.
@gininginin BULLSHIT YOU IDIOT DID YOU ALSO KNOW THAT 52% OF SCIENTISTS ARE LIBERALS AND THAT ONLY 6% ARE CONSERVATIVE???? Yea, they are nothing but LIARS! They only want to push their NWO Liberal agenda on the people and KILL MORE JOBS!
@gininginin I don't think that Scattnam - the typical fat, ignorant, stupid Republican - is aware of the existence of scientific journals LOL I bet he hasn't even finished high school. I'm sure he gets his information and knowledge by reading the Bible, watching Fox News, and being brainwashed by monsters such as Bush, Palin, Santorum, Gingrich&Co. who are as ignorant and stupid as him. I do hope that the American ppl will not leave their country in the hands of such absurd individuals.
@gininginin There is a vast amount of evidence supporting climate change that has been taking place on a 4 billion year old earth. There is a vast amount of evidence supporting that a driving force of evolution was climate change. Few people doubt climate change, they doubt if man is really effecting it or not and if it is really "bad" for the earth. I see it as the earth going through natural change and us as man need to evolve to that change. I have a physics degree as well.
The vast amount of evidence you speak of comes from paleoclimatology, and it is one of the pillars supporting the modern theory of anthropogenic climate change. Basically, in the past, the changes were slow (look up Milankovitch cycles). We are currently witnessing changes in our lifetime that happened only in geological time (RATE of change). Our understanding of the past support the models that can only account present change if they include all the CO2 we added in 150 years.
@gininginin I agree with you there. What people need to understand is that those 150 years of data we collected is small compared to a 4 billion year old earth. We need to study the climate but with what little data we have a great uncertainity we can't jump to a radical conclusion yet. We still don't know how much we are effecting the climate if at all and we still don't know if it is really "bad" and how bad is it to the earth if it is.
Why do you think that we only collected 150 years of data? The ice retrieved at Volstok reveals the temperature and CO2 levels of the last 650,000 years. We already know that these variables are coupled and show feedback dependence (if you are in physics you should what I mean). Your argument is weak. We still don't understand gravity but we sent a rocket to the moon. Perhaps you should study what we already know about climate in general, try looking at skepticalscience(dot)com.
@gininginin We have 150 years of temperature readings, the best data we have. And that 650,000 years of data isn't even a fourth of the age of the earth. I do feel that we should continue research in climate change and we should find alternative forms of energy but right now the uncertainity is too great for us to make a conclusion on what is really happening. Like I said, maybe the change happening now is good. Man is a part of nature just like the birds and the trees.
Do your homework before you make uninformed claims like 'we can't jump to a radical conclusion yet'. Tell your physics teacher to tell you about carbon dioxide re-emissions of electromagnetic waves from the sun to the infrarred spectrum (aka greenhouse effect). That's what heats Venus hotter than Mercury. Then learn what does 'climate sensitivity to CO2' means and how it has been calculated to be around 3C by several experiments and models. Then please come back here.
@gininginin I agree with what you just said and I have discussed with my physics professors about it. What I am getting at is we don't know how much man is effecting the earth and how "bad" is it. There is evidence of Venus once being a planet of water meaning it had life. Now look at it, it must have went through climate change on it's own. Earth could be doing the exact same thing and no matter what we do it will keep happening.
@gininginin We are jumping to conclusions that cost a lot of people jobs and money on an issue that we are too uncertain about. Like I said, we should continue to study the climate and we should find alternative forms of energy, but as of right now we know to little to make a huge jump. This climate change could be happening no matter what we do.
@gininginin Please be informed that every person endowed with basic culture in all parts of the world know that the climate change happening now is bad for the planet. There's plenty of evidence confirming it. Whyamimrpink78 claims that this isn't the case. I justify such words coming out of hopeless ignorant Reps like Scattnam, but not from someone who claims to have a degree in Physics. That is just appalling. I hope he made it up. This guy gives the US educational system a bad reputation.
wow, dude you're retarded. are libeals this stupid? you don't even have a 4th grade education. go back to your one room shack and go back to jerking off to pictures to pictures of obama, idiot. also, nordic countries are very small in population. who cares, dimwitt. 7-9 million people should not be used to represent the better world.
All you need to know about America is that people take this faux populist bullshit for real. This guy reminds me of all of the socialist assholes I used to debate in college who were all living on their parents' dime while I worked 2 jobs to pay my way. Fuck this fat asshole.
People are socially liberal but economically conservative, and in a lot of way politcally conservatives. That is why conservatives win because people want to control the government and not let it control them. Also, if people that are mored informed on those issues are more conservative because the know issues more. And Moore is not being liberal by saying that blacks and gays have their words. Moore is being anti-liberal by seperating groups like that.
Those reactions to "Tax the rich" are just pathetic. I agree 100% that the rich need to be taxed as well. American politics always seem to be about oposing sides. And Micheal Moore by no means helps with bringing sides together. Important non-governmental persons should refrain from picking sides and simplifying complex issues since all that politicians in America have to realise is that they need to work together, compromise and work on a multi-partisan base.
America is a liberal nation..... and that's why we are failing. This stunt to pretend that liberals are some underdog that are fighting their way to power is just a blatant misrepresentation. Obama is proof that the liberal way doesn't work. Higher taxes, increased spending, big government. Great job, our debt has doubled. At least I can admit voting Obama into office was a mistake. I'm sure there are plenty of ex-libs out there with enough open-mindedness who can say the same.
@MrAmputechture Ditto!! American Liberalism actually means let everyone that comes into your country walk on you as if you're doormat with their own beliefs system, and their own backward culture to wipe out your own culture!!
@MrAmpuYou need to research more into what the meanings are. It would be more accurate to say we are a Keynes nation. Liberal doesn't mean big government, it means less. McCain would have enacted many of the same stimulus policies that Bush and Obama did, proving they aren't liberal. Reagan didn't lower the debt, it doubled then too. Facts don't lie. You need research. Culturally, we have a liberal nation. A conservative nation would resemble Iran. Look into classical liberalism; you'll like it.
@TigerghostPictures Obama was elected under the promises to end corporate corruption and tighten the gap between the upper and middle classes. That's what liberalism wanted. What liberalism ACHIEVED is what I am arguing for. Taxing the rich, the large businesses, and other regulations- THIS is what leads to big businesses. The modern liberal somehow believes that an economy can exist with both a small government and small corporate control, and that is why the liberal way does not make sense.
Michael Moore is an ignorant, arrogant man, and knows well that humour is very effective in bashing opponents. And he poses as a Catholic! He has lost his Catholic Faith. Trouble is many people look to him for leadership. Very effective, but very dangerous to America! If only he would admit that he is no longer a Catholic!
I like Michael Moore a lot because he provides a certain viewpoint, but I'm sort of Classical Liberal and would still vote for Ron Paul and his type of capitalism.
I think we should all try to end political corruption in the first place, then work for volountary help for those who need it.
“Europeans think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities"
@No9Nando I am European, but I do not think that Michael Moore is "stupid and ignorant". For being an American, Moore is actually very smart. As a European, the horrible stereotype of the fat, ignorant, and stupid American is represented by the horrible and disgusting Republicans. Greedy people like Bush and Cheney. People who would kill thousands of people just to make money. Disgusting people whom would sell their own mothers for a buck. They make me ashamed to be part of humankind.
@salvyy Michael Moore is has a very Huge mouth! That's all he has. He professes to be Catholic. As a retired Catholic priest am ashamed of this man. Let him at least admit that he has abandonned his Catholic faith. His ideology is his new found faith, and he has become very popular propagating it to an ignorant populace. BTW I am Canadian and very fearful for America. This Michael Moore has the microphone and does nothing constructive. The man is full of himself. God Save America!
@watchful38 I'm a Christian as well. I've never heard of Moore's new found faith...what is it? :-) Why are you ashamed of him? He simply says very true, objective things about the ignorant, incredibly stupid and horrible Republican people. I'm not afraid of the US...I'm afraid of the US ending up in the hands of the Republican party. We all saw what happened to the US and the world during the disgusting Bush admin. Those people are a danger and should be banned from society.
@salvyy But you're a dumb Italian. No wonder you find the fat, vulgar, stupid, greedy, and perniciously ignorant Moore "very smart." Moore reportedly has twice the wealth of Bush. So he's thrice as fat and at least twice as greedy. Bush went to Harvard and Yale and finished. Moore flunked out of a lousy college. Clearly Moore is more stupid in academic terms, which is saying something, since Bush was only an average student, by his own admission. You fail. Stick to getting bailed out by Germany.
@sklanger Dear racist and incredibly stupid, ignorant man from a Bible-belt American state, Moore is not richer than Bush and not as greedy. He has never invaded a country to favor his corrupt friends killing thousands of people to earn a buck.The unbelievably ignorant Bush went to Yale thanks to his father. A person with no powerful father who's as stupid as him (and you) would never get into Yale. The US debt is as bad as Italy's. Go read the Bible now: you're the shame of humanity
@salvyy Dear retarded Italian, I'm not American nor am I from the Bible-belt. Moore has a reported net worth of $50m, Bush $20m. Moore has more than twice his wealth and by that measure is twice as greedy. Moore makes tendentious mockumentaries to swindle a buck from the stupid and gullible (that would be you). Bush may have entered Yale as a legacy admission, but he had no such help for Harvard. He finished from both universities, unlike Moore, who flunked out from his. Go beg Germany for alms.
@sklanger Dear ignorant man from a third world country, Moore created his wealth thanks to his talent, Bush comes from a rich family. If you'd studied a little you'd know that that drunken of "W" has failed EVERY business he was in. He's as stupid as you and could never enter a university like Yale/Harvard due to his lack of basic intelligence. I justify your ignorance: the only school in your village was bombed by a US F16 during a war started by the Republicans and couldn't get an education.
@No9Nando yeah, cause christopher hitchens was none of those things. i am no fan of moore, but the irony of bringing in hitchens as your representative...
I was with Moore until he said the Liberal's want the war to end. NO NO NO. That is a conservative stance. Liberals fight for the emancipation of the victims regardless where they are. Liberals stand with gays, minorities AND the Kurdish and Iraqi liberals. To abandon them is to give up liberty and be an isolationist and extreme conservative and allow the most horrendous acts of conservative barbarism to continue under (insert dictator of choice) rule.
@hansson2000 There is no book by that name. Even if there was I will not go and look it up. Just tell me where I have it wrong and we can have a meaningful conversation on it. Calling on random books and telling me I am wrong is not an argument.
@hansson2000 There is no book by that name. Even if there was I will not go and look it up. Just tell me where I have it wrong and we can have a meaningful conversation on it. Calling on random books and telling me I am wrong is not an argument.
@hansson2000 There is no book by that name. Even if there was I will not go and look it up. Just tell me where I have it wrong and we can have a meaningful conversation on it. Calling on random books and telling me I am wrong is not an argument.
@Dafariii You sound completely and utterly paranoid. Our country is falling apart, our economy failing, we can't afford to go to war anymore. Hell we can barely afford our own programs. Stop being a sheep and look at the bigger picture.
@Petey0707 I know the USA is in economic trouble. And that would be a reasonable reason not to intervene. But being an isolationist on principle is what I object to.
@Imhornydadcomeinside It would be hard to imagine a war that is not imperialistic. After all even taking the side of the victims in Iraq would be considered imperialistic. Or any other intervention that defends principles of freedom and democracy would be imperialistic in a country with a totalitarian dictatorship. So no, I don't buy that argument.
"Don't say anything bag" Michael? You never want to say anything "bad" about those that want to see us all demised don't you? Try to delete me now double faced preacher!!
gross over simplification Mr Moore, all western countries are "liberal democracies" but that meaning of liberal and modern progressivism are not fully congruent
@Sanguiluna Ron Paul is a liberal Republican, yes. The word classical liberal comes to mind when you bring up Ron Paul. Economic liberalism is a fundamental element of the Republican Party, whereas Social liberalism is a fundamental element of the Democrat and Libertarian Party [Libertarians are economic liberals too].
How does Michael define liberal? He doesn't, he leaves to term with no definition so it means 100 different things to 100 different people, that way everybody is a "liberal" and everybody will cheer.
Yes, he was rather vague in this clip, perhaps he say more in the full speech?
He did mention: 'people who are opposed to the wars', 'strong environmental laws', 'people who think women should have equal pay', 'the 72% who think that the upper crust should be taxed', and 'legal gay marriage'.
I wonder if he's defined it in any of his books?
However, *if* being vague for the purposes of forming a group, is the path to civil rights... I guess I'm okay with vague. :\
@PurpleGhost If I ask you what a car is and you answer "a car is like a volkswagon", that is not a clear definition. Saying that a liberal is for this or that is also not a clear defnition. Vagueness is is deadly, and must be avoided in any issue,especially in politics. Who will you be lumped in with, what ideas and actions will you support if things are left unclear?
@WarVideo Don't try to change the message: a Liberal is a Liberal, a Republican is a Republican. I am a Liberal, NOT a Republican. If I were a Republican - the worst product ever produced by humankind - I would kill myself.
@salvyy Asking for a definition is not changeing the message, its asking for a clear message. "Liberal" or a "conservative" are not self evident terms, they can be stretched to mean almost anything. The real question is what are the fundamental issues in politics, the real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Socialism vs. capitalism.
@WarVideo Ok, but please let's make something very clear: there is a difference between being a "Liberal" and a "Conservative". They're very distinguished concepts. I would feel truly offended to be called a conservative, especially in the American sense of being an ignorant Republican from a Bible-belt state. That is an insult for me. I think that would be an insult for Moore as well. As for the issues, liberals stand for liberal socialism over savage capitalism that is destroying the world
@salvyy Then define your terms.... There is a difference between these two groups but not in fundamental terms. What is the fundamental issue in politics? And where do they both stand?
@WarVideo Liberals stand for liberal socialism, Republicans stand for savage capitalism. Liberals want to tax the people who earn more, the Republicans don't think so. The Liberals are tolerant, the Republicans are not. The Liberals in the US favor universal health care coverage, which is a human right in my opinion, the Republicans are against it. The Liberals favor the less fortunate people, the Republicans only the rich ones.
@WarVideo Ehmm...You're free to think whatever you want, but I believe that any normal person would realize that there is a big distintion between being a Republican and a Liberal by simply looking at the few differences I've indicated. Another difference is that liberal socialists favor the intervention of the government in the economy during recessions (ever heard of Keynes?), while the Republicans are against it. Please do your research and find out more. All best.
@salvyy All those policy positions you mention are generally true about liberals. But Im not looking for a list of policy positions, im looking for the basic central belief that a person holds that would result in a person having those policy positions. For example, from the other direction,If you belive that an individul has a right to live for his own sake as an end im himself then that would lead to a belief in capitalism where you dont have a moral duty to be forced to help anyone.
@salvyy Funny. Liberals are tolerant, but Republicans should be banned from society. Your views are repellant, hypocritical and incoherent all at the same time, contradicting yourself from one sentence to the next. Falsely preaching tolerance while asking for others to be banned from society. Dumb Italian fascist. Now we have a repeat of history -- ailing Italians like you groveling to Germany for help. Too funny. Profligate Italians are in no position to lecture America.
@sklanger I'm very tolerant. Nothing bothers me. I just hate ignorance bc it's the greatest threat to democracy. Only a fool can compare my little Italy with the most powerful country in the world, which I love despite the absurd Republicans like you. Ignorant people like the Republicans are a threat to the US and the world bc they create monsters. They did in 2000 with Bush and can do it again this year. Ignorant people like you are a threat to humankind and should not have the right to vote.
@salvyy C'mon already! Kill yourself indeed! What fatheaded twaddle! What boorish vitriol. But you're forgiven. Liberals can't help replying to logic with such outbursts; you liberals have no other line of defense. On the sidelines...From Canada. ( Our Prime Minister Steven Harper, the new leader of the Free World. And he is a true Conservative. The only hope! Has Obama made any mention of Muslims burning Churches in Egypt or Nigeria? Harper has; he sees evil; he leads!
@watchful38 "Kill yourself" LOL are you sure you are a retired "Christian" priest?!? You are intolerant, racist, homophobic, and favor warmongering "leaders". I do hope you are not a pedophile too. You cannot possibly represent MY God. The God I trust is not your god. Christ is against EVERYTHING you stand for. Don't call yourself a Christian! Enjoy the last years of your meaningless existence bc your soul will burn in hell for eternity due to your evil thoughts. Just like any other Republican.
@salvyy What really did I say that deserved such a tirade! Please spit it out; what is your beef with the Catholic Church? I must add that I did not tell you to kill yourself. I merely gave you a nudge toward the right way of thinking. But, alas, in vain! This will be my last response to you. Cheers! & God Bless You!
@watchful38 From the things you say about the Muslim ppl, Obama, and the fact that you define yourself a Conservative, I can feel what kind of "Christian" you are. But it's ok, no problem. Just two last things: The Catholic Church as an institution is one thing, Jesus Christ is a different thing. The Vatican is the place where a person loses his faith. Second thing: Jesus Christ was a Liberal, unlike you. All best and try to be a normal Christian during the last stage of your life, if you can.
@salvyy My parting shot: Hey, I'm not terminal yet! Jesus Christ is the Head of the Catholic Chiurch. "I am the vine you are the branches." Yes the members can and do sin, sometimes very scandously, but the Church with Christ as its head, is the source of "eternal life", even on this earth. See Heb 11:1 and the explanation of this text in Spe Salvi by Benedict VXI, paragraph 7(Downloadable!) Thru the Bible & the Sacraments, esp the Eucharist the Church gives us the "means to Salvation"!
@salvyy What is "Eternal Life". It is "knowing & loving God" through Christ. Christ imparts Himself to us by His Word & Sacraments. So even now, before we die, we have "eternal life". This cannot be taken from us. And it comes to its fulness in Heaven where we shall "see" God. God will transform us into Himself. We become like Him, not by nature, but by participation. As finite beings we will never "comprehend the infinite God". Joy, love & peace begin now! May eternal life be yours now!
It probably is true that liberals are the majority, but they don't vote as often as the old white retired Republicans. If you're young and work for a living, you're less likely to vote. If you're old and retired, what else are you going to do?!
This fat lard made a grave, but intentional, mistake. He never defined the term liberal which means two very different things, one pertaining to maximum individual rights, and the other pertaining to being nonjudgmental.
@ceejaywt Social Liberalism actually means allowing the state to have a hand in reducing unemployment, dealing with health care and education - while also expanding equality and civil rights. It doesn't actually say much about new ideas, though Social Liberalism is linked to the progressive movement which actively seeks out new ways to run a country (before the old ways become a problem).
@WarVideo Telling gay people that they're scum unfit to marry is both a statist and conservative stance. "Liberal" isn't the same as communist or socialist (I'm largely libertarian in views), though some right wing folk want to pretend it is.
@QuantumGh0st You can't do that without taxation and government. Why would you want to get rid of your ability to have a say on how the country is run? What would you prefer, anarchy?
@QuantumGh0st HA! How naive. You know how corporations have to jump through hoops to get the government to remove the barriers between them and destroying your human rights? Yeah they wouldn't have to do that without a government. How would you suggest you get protected from things like protection rackets without some sort of government?
@shraka "You know how corporations have to jump through hoops to get the government to remove the barriers between them and destroying your human rights?"
The government violate human rights on a daily basis i.e. War.
"How would you suggest you get protected from things like protection rackets without some sort of government?"
You mean from people with guns who want power & money? Like the Government.
@QuantumGh0st Society needs some form of government. Anarchy is not an effective system because it goes against every ounce of human psychology. Government starts with family as the basic unit. Did you have a family? Did it have a central figure? Was there some element of authority? Do you have a close circle of friends? Did one friend stand out as the leader of your pack? You cannot run an effective society without some form of government.
@TigerghostPictures Your appeal to tribalism isn't relevant. The government is not a protective fatherly figure. My parents don't threaten me with guns, and take my money to pay for international wars.
@QuantumGh0st You can't fight human psychology. People will be herded and lead by a few people. It is just the way things are. What are you doing now? You are trying to convince me that your way is better. A corporation is lead by a few or a central figure, a school is lead by a principal, There is no way to properly govern a group without government. I am atheist to the idea that society can function without government. At the end of the day, someone has to say yes or no.
Here in australia, Liberal" still means pro-small Government and liberty.
"Liberal" comes from "Libertarian". The progressive democrats hijacked this term to try and escape the stigma of being associated with Hitler / Mousolini.
It's true, look it up.
I don't know what's "Liberal" about confiscating more money from the people to fund broken public schools, useless roads, and endless welfare programs.
You yanks on the left need to come up with a more honest way to describe yourselves.
@LibertyDownUnder Most people I talk to have the ability to separate people with a Liberal view, and those who support the Liberal party. The Liberal party like to pretend they're classical liberals (they're not). Liberal does not come from Libertarian - Libertarian comes from classical Liberalism.
Social Liberals (which is what is meant by Liberal now - sorry words change meaning) mean increasing protections for social liberty by the state.
@LibertyDownUnder I didn't say nobody used the roads. But its not like they are necessary or even the cheapest way to move about. Indeed, the idea is that public transport should be of such quality (SNCF being state-owned) such that travel by car becomes basically an optional luxury.
@Scientisticsoviet, if you're a plumber is Paris and you have a car full of tools, or if you're a real estate agent that needs to be mobile - you'll need a car, and not as a luxury.
Back to my original point. All over the world, Governments have a monopoly over public transport & roads. Forcing citizens to pay into a broken system, and restricting their choice is not what I'd call "Liberal".
As far as I know SNCF is self sufficient (Might even pay dividends). Also, France has one of the best rail networks in the world in terms of terms of speed, reliability, an area coverage.
"Liberal"
I rather don't care, I'm not a liberal by most definitions of the term.
@LibertyDownUnder :-) Have you ever seen the public transport system in Europe? Have you ever taken a train in France or Germany? How can you define those systems "broken"? The citizens of those countries are lucky to have modern, ultra-functional public transport systems that do not cost them too much because the governments take care of them. I just don't understand why many Americans hate liberal socialism so much. Liberal Socialism is not Communism. It is the exaltation of human dignity.
@LibertyDownUnder I'd like to see a source for your statement that all or many of France's roads are private because it sounds like bull to me. And, I wouldn't want to hear about some minor project like the one near Paris that is only 10 miles long - that is hardly most of the roads in France.
@LibertyDownUnder The government is still a large contributor to those routes. And then again, the Interstate Highway System had a separate purpose than to provide faster travel for citizens and commerce. It was developed as a way to transport our troops quickly from one side of the country to the other in the event of a foreign invasion. You can't do that with a private system. I think the idea is interesting, but I believe that people are tired of toll routes as it is.
@TigerghostPictures, getting governments involved in these projects is inevitable to some degree.
Why do you oppose toll roads? The idea that road access is given out for free is the biggest cause of congestion. You can keep paving endless roads, you have to find a way to restrict usage. Tolls seem the most practical way to do so.
@LibertyDownUnder Tolls [whether private or public] seem to be the most practical way to encourage people to drive less and use government-funded services like buses, trains, light-rail, subways, and elevated rail. After paying for gas, mandatory car insurance, and general car maintenance, I think people will bypass driving all together and use public aka "government" transportation more often as a cheaper alternative. I actually kind of like the idea now of privatizing roads.
Wobbler.
Gilbertoyaya 3 weeks ago
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When people start siding with Michael Moore, you know this country is in very bad shape.
123misterme 1 month ago
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123misterme 1 month ago
Scattnam - U mad bro?
Colenk12 1 month ago
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@Scattnam LOL Denmark, Sweden and Norway always show up as the top ten best countries in the world, ahead of the US, in terms of quality of life and healthcare system. "Soviet Russia" Ahahahaha!!! The Soviet Union collapsed in 1990! Ahahahhaah you are sooo ignorant!!!! You must be the typical unbelievably stupid Republican from a Bible-belt state. I'm sure you even deny Darwin's theory of evolution. Hang yourself, you ignorant fat fuck! I can't believe you belong to humankind.
salvyy 1 month ago
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salvyy 1 month ago
Socialism DOESN'T WORK! USE YOUR FUCKING HEADS! WHY DO YOU THINK RUSSIA COLLAPSED? WHY DO YOU THINK CUBA AND NORTH KOREA ARE IN POVERTY!? ITS BECAUSE OF SOCIALISM! WAKE UP LIBTARDS, SOCIALISM AKA COMMUNISM FUCKING FAILS!
Scattnam 1 month ago
@Scattnam Yes, another unbelievably ignorant Republican. Listen, you incredibly stupid man, Liberal Socialism is not Communism!!! There's communism in Cuba and North Korea, NOT Liberal Socialism! There're so many great countries in Europe based on Liberal Socialism that have standard of living HIGHER than the US. Ever heard of Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany? Well, those are countries based on Liberal Socialism. Go back to you triple-decker cheese burgers, french fries and 100 beers, now.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID!!!!!! I am not fat you retard you must be an anorexic cunt if you think I am. Im 5 8 121 lb ya fucktard liberal.2ndly where the fuck did you get info about Norway Sweden having HIGHER standard of living? bahh bahh you speak sheep from the liberal propaganda. that's what they WANT you to think, retard. It's no wonder people are stupid enough to listen to Ron Paul who isn't even a conservative, look at his foreign policy! ITS LIBERALISM!
Scattnam 1 month ago
@Scattnam U watch too much Fox News, u Republican fat fuck. You don't even know the existence of the Scandinavian countries. U're too ignorant to know what I'm talking about. How can I speak with someone who mixes Liberal Socialism with Communism? U must go through pain to realize the benefits of Liberal Socialism. Thus, I hope you get a cancer you'll not be able to cure bc you don't have enough money to get a surgery. Only then you'll realize how important it is to have the govern. on ur side.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy YOU ARE A FUCKING PRICK! Benifits of LIBERAL SOCIALISM! ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF 50% OF ALL THE MONEY YOU EARN GOES TO THE GOVERNMENT YOU FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT! I HOPE YOU FUCKING DIE YOU FUCKING CUNT! YOU DUMBFUCK IM NOT FAT I BET YOU ARE AN ANOREXIC FUCKING CUNT! little bitch better watch you mouth or ill beat the shit out of you fucking looser. Global Warming is BAD ARE YOU STUPID OR WHAT GLOBAL WARMING IS A FUCKING HOAX BAHH BAHH LIBERAL TALK BAHHHHHHH
Scattnam 1 month ago
@Scattnam LOL in Sweden ppl pay 50% taxes but education and health care is free. I have friends in the US who got a basic education and left college with hundreds of thousands in debt. I have friends in the US who could not get a simple surgery bc it was too expensive. They had to leave the country to be cured. I am happy to pay higher taxes knowing that if something happens to me I can go to a hospital. I'm happy to pay higher taxes knowing that I can get an education.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy Education starts with the individual and after reading your comments you have failed at. You have comments where you name call and use profanity and you show that you lack knowledge in a lot of subject. People in Sweden may get "free" education but in the states we have a better education system and more intelligent individuals. We aren't given everything so we learn to problem solve and think for ourselves where other countries lack those skills.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@whyamimrpink78 "In the states we have a better education system and more intelligent individuals". LOL I know there're very smart ppl in the US, but I also know that ppl like you and Scattnam do not belong in the category of the "smart people" in the US. I honestly believe that the world has never experienced in its history the presence of ppl as ignorant as the typical Republicans living in the so-called Bible-belt states. The free system in Europe has never generated ppl as stupid as them.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy Really. One of my professors was from Europe and he said that there are just as many dumb people in Europe as there are in the states. In the states when you don't get an education you can still make it by starting a small business or being creative. We promote free thought where people like you enjoy being brainwashed and think that reciting "facts" displays your intelligent. If you are so intelligent then why do you depend on the government for everything?
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@whyamimrpink78 Yes, of course, there are dumb people everywhere, unfortunately. In Europe too. I travel a lot, but I have to admit that I have never met in Europe or anywhere else in the world people with a level of ignorance, absurdity and stupidity that match that of the Republicans I have met in several parts of the US. That is obscene ignorance. How could those clueless people have the right to vote risking to create monsters like Bush? I'll never understand that.
salvyy 1 month ago
@Scattnam "GLOBAL WARMING IS A FUCKING HOAX". You stupid fat fuck redneck Republican from a Bible-belt state, you are sooo ignorant! A chicken is smarter than you. You truly represent the worst that society can offer. You truly are the shit of humankind. I do hope you get that terminal cancer and disappear: the world will be a better place without ignorant fat fucks like you. Go back to Fox News, double-burgers with bacon, and 100 beers. Enjoy it, you disgusting ignorant fat fuck.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy hey liberal garbage, GIVE ME A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL!!! you fucking piece of shit. Ever heard of Al Gores lies!? YOU ARE FUCKING CLUELESS! 75,200,000 AMERICANS BELIEVE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE! STOP SPREADING YOUR BULLSHIT PHYSCHO SCIENCE YOU FUCKING BRAINDEAD LIBERAL! Fuck you FUCK SOCIALISM!
Scattnam 1 month ago
@Scattnam Getting angry with liberal morons is not worth it, believe me. They can't comprehend logic.
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@CHTWillCome723 :-) The only illogical thing is to realize that ignorant people like you and Scattnam belong to humankind and have the right to vote. You people really are the embodiment of absurdity. Ignorance at its best.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy That's your opinion and that's fine, but the fact is Liberals have made this country look weaker than it ever has before. And liberals don't care because they love their unemployment/welfare checks along with their nonsense. I could go on for days, but I have better things to do right now.
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@CHTWillCome723 " the fact is Liberals have made this country look weaker than it ever has before". Why, because the Liberals haven't invaded any country yet or waged any fake wars killing thousands of innocent people just to make money? The US under the Obama administration has gained a lot of admiration and respect in many parts of the world. The US under the horrendous Bush admin. was hated in every corner of the world. Have fun doing better things...Fox News and cheeseburgers with bacon?
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy You sure do waste a lot of time trying to convince people of nonsense. I'll give you that. I'm done here. Have a nice life
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@CHTWillCome723 :-) What's the nonsense part? Please explain. Make me laugh again. I don't need to convince anybody: ppl with basic intelligence already know what I say. Last thing: the next time the Reps are in power and wage another fake war like the one in Iraq only to steal resources, killing thousands of people, don't act as a disgusting hypocrite: go to war yourself and see what it is like. Maybe, you'll open your eyes then and will realize how nonsense and absurd the ppl you support are.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy First of all I don't really like Republicans, and I am NOT a Republican. Maybe you should think before talking ignorance. Anyways, one example of Obama making us look weak is him trying to basically ask for our downed Drone that landed in Iran. America shouldn't ASK for something that technologically advanced to be given back. That's just ONE example. Until terrorism and evil is gone (probably wont be for a long time) in this world, America needs to stay on top.
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@CHTWillCome723 I'm against terrorism and I support the US fighting it. I hate it when the Republicans start wars only to steal others' resources, killing thousands of innocent people. The war in Iraq was a fake war. So many good American young soldiers died in vain. What for? Only to safeguard the interests of Bush&Cheney. C. Powell had the dignity to resign because he knew that the war was based on lies. How can a normal person support the Republicans? Only ignorant ppl like Scattnam can.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy That's why I'm proud to be an Independent. There's too many idiot Democrats and Republicans in my opinion.
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@CHTWillCome723 I am glad to realize that you are not a Republican. In a fair, ideal world, Independents will be in power and truly work for the benefits of the community. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and we need to make sure that the lesser of the two evils wins. I know the Dems aren't the best, but the free world cannot afford to end up in the hands of hypocritical, ignorant monsters like Romney or Newt G. That will be really bad for the US and the world. All best.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy You cancel out Obama. The guy is just as bad if not worse than either Romney or Gingrich.
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@CHTWillCome723 Obama could do more. If you're not as ignorant as a Republican, you might know that several fair reforms he proposed were blocked by the Republicans. You can't say that Obama is as bad "if not worse" than monsters such as Romney or Gingrich. That hypocrite of Gingrich is against higher taxes for the rich and keep saying very stupid things. For instance, he says he wants to create a US colony on the moon. Come on, man, how can one put Obama on the same level as someone so stupid?
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy Alright I'm done talking to you. Obama is not worthy for re-election, sorry. Go ahead and keep trying hard and wasting your life trying to convince people that he is though. Have a nice life.
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@CHTWillCome723 Republicans like Romney and Gingrich would lead the US to its ruin and will constitute a threat for the entire world, just like the Bush admin. was. Obama is not the ideal choice, but I hope that the Republicans will keep eating their burgers and french fries, read the Bible, getting fatter, and stay out of power. They are too absurd and ignorant to lead the most powerful country in the world. Have a great existence as well.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy totally....
CHTWillCome723 1 month ago
@salvyy YOU ARE A DUMBFUCK! Since when are Republicans fat? dumbshit you liberals are consumerist hogs. Look at Michael HE IS A FAT FUCK JUST LIKE YOU! Unlike fattie shits I am actrually healthy weight, 5'8" 120 pounds. You libTARDS just don't get it. GINGRICH AND SANTORUM ARE THE ONLY HOPES! Romney is a liberal. We need candidates who support defining marriage, who support a free market with no regulations Remove all enviormental regulations like "Clean Air Act"
Scattnam 1 month ago
@Scattnam "GINGRICH AND SANTORUM ARE THE ONLY HOPES! " LOL Yes, the best choices if we lived in a world full of ignorant fat fucks like you! LOL Santorum thinks that we descend from Adam&Eve and denies Darwin's theory. He is as stupid and ignorant as you. "We need candidates who support defining marriage" LOL Yes, Gingrich supports "defining maririage"...he's an expert in the field with 3 of them. Hang yourself, you hypocrite stupid Repub. fat fuck. Can't believe you exist in the first place.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy <-- FASCIST COMMUNIST FUCKER! I bet you want BIGGG GOVERNMENT OMFG YOU WANT SOCIALISM? FUCK YOU WHY DON'T YOU BRAINWASHED FUCKS EVER USE GOOGLE? NONE of the European countries even come CLOSE in terms of standard of living why??? THERE IS NO FREEDOM NO FREE MARKET ITS ALL FUCKING SLAVERY I BET YOU ARE A FUCKING COMMUNIST AKA SOCIALIST FUCKER!
Scattnam 1 month ago
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@Scattnam "WHY DON'T YOU BRAINWASHED FUCKS EVER USE GOOGLE? NONE of the European countries even come CLOSE in terms of standard of living" LOL You cannot possibly be for real. You must be a fantasy or perhaps you just pretend to be so stupid to gain attention. I refuse to accept that humanity could give birth to someone as absurd and ignorant as you. But you are too funny, I have to admit.
salvyy 1 month ago
@Scattnam LOL Never heard of the glaciers melting in the Artic sea? The natural balance of the planet is collapsing in front of our eyes and you still have doubts? You Republican fat fucks really are incredibly ignorant. I still do not comprehend why worthless fat fucks like you live in the first place. You're a threat to humanity. "75 million Americans believe global warming is a lie"?! I respect the American ppl too much and I am sure that the remaining 325 million are not as stupid as you.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy You know, other planets have gone through climate change as well without man being on them. Look at Venus, there is evidence of it once having water, thus life and now look at it, it went through natural climate change. Ever thought that maybe the earth goes through natural climate change and man isn't the cause? Oh, i forgot, the "free" government run education brainwashed you into believing something so they can control you. Keep being a good comrade.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@whyamimrpink78 :-) The liberal governments in Europe don't brainwash ppl. It's the stupid ppl like Scattnam, for example, who get brainwashed by certain media like Fox News and certain absurd political "leaders" like Bush, Santorum, Palin & Co. Only a brainwashed ignorant could think that Liberal Socialism equals Communism. Only a stupid person could think that the climate change happening now is good for the planet.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy I bet you never even watch fox news. I don't because I can't afford to because I don't get a government check to buy it but yet I still pay high taxes. You rip on something without even looking into it. I just amazes me how brainwashed someone can be. But I guess when you are being a good little comrade and you fear that the government is going to take away you way of life then you have no choice.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@Scattnam
>" GIVE ME A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL"
Subscribe to any reputable scientific journal that addresses the subject and start reading (Science, Nature, etc) Virtually 100% of scientific papers accept it as reality. You can also try scientists' blogs.
>75,200,000 AMERICANS BELIEVE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE
Since when does the number of people believing a claim imply validity of truth?
>FUCK SOCIALISM
Scientific understanding is irrelevant to political preference.
gininginin 1 month ago
@gininginin BULLSHIT YOU IDIOT DID YOU ALSO KNOW THAT 52% OF SCIENTISTS ARE LIBERALS AND THAT ONLY 6% ARE CONSERVATIVE???? Yea, they are nothing but LIARS! They only want to push their NWO Liberal agenda on the people and KILL MORE JOBS!
Scattnam 1 month ago
@gininginin I don't think that Scattnam - the typical fat, ignorant, stupid Republican - is aware of the existence of scientific journals LOL I bet he hasn't even finished high school. I'm sure he gets his information and knowledge by reading the Bible, watching Fox News, and being brainwashed by monsters such as Bush, Palin, Santorum, Gingrich&Co. who are as ignorant and stupid as him. I do hope that the American ppl will not leave their country in the hands of such absurd individuals.
salvyy 1 month ago
@gininginin There is a vast amount of evidence supporting climate change that has been taking place on a 4 billion year old earth. There is a vast amount of evidence supporting that a driving force of evolution was climate change. Few people doubt climate change, they doubt if man is really effecting it or not and if it is really "bad" for the earth. I see it as the earth going through natural change and us as man need to evolve to that change. I have a physics degree as well.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@whyamimrpink78
The vast amount of evidence you speak of comes from paleoclimatology, and it is one of the pillars supporting the modern theory of anthropogenic climate change. Basically, in the past, the changes were slow (look up Milankovitch cycles). We are currently witnessing changes in our lifetime that happened only in geological time (RATE of change). Our understanding of the past support the models that can only account present change if they include all the CO2 we added in 150 years.
gininginin 1 month ago
@gininginin I agree with you there. What people need to understand is that those 150 years of data we collected is small compared to a 4 billion year old earth. We need to study the climate but with what little data we have a great uncertainity we can't jump to a radical conclusion yet. We still don't know how much we are effecting the climate if at all and we still don't know if it is really "bad" and how bad is it to the earth if it is.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@whyamimrpink78
Why do you think that we only collected 150 years of data? The ice retrieved at Volstok reveals the temperature and CO2 levels of the last 650,000 years. We already know that these variables are coupled and show feedback dependence (if you are in physics you should what I mean). Your argument is weak. We still don't understand gravity but we sent a rocket to the moon. Perhaps you should study what we already know about climate in general, try looking at skepticalscience(dot)com.
gininginin 1 month ago
@gininginin We have 150 years of temperature readings, the best data we have. And that 650,000 years of data isn't even a fourth of the age of the earth. I do feel that we should continue research in climate change and we should find alternative forms of energy but right now the uncertainity is too great for us to make a conclusion on what is really happening. Like I said, maybe the change happening now is good. Man is a part of nature just like the birds and the trees.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@whyamimrpink78
Do your homework before you make uninformed claims like 'we can't jump to a radical conclusion yet'. Tell your physics teacher to tell you about carbon dioxide re-emissions of electromagnetic waves from the sun to the infrarred spectrum (aka greenhouse effect). That's what heats Venus hotter than Mercury. Then learn what does 'climate sensitivity to CO2' means and how it has been calculated to be around 3C by several experiments and models. Then please come back here.
gininginin 1 month ago
@gininginin I agree with what you just said and I have discussed with my physics professors about it. What I am getting at is we don't know how much man is effecting the earth and how "bad" is it. There is evidence of Venus once being a planet of water meaning it had life. Now look at it, it must have went through climate change on it's own. Earth could be doing the exact same thing and no matter what we do it will keep happening.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@gininginin We are jumping to conclusions that cost a lot of people jobs and money on an issue that we are too uncertain about. Like I said, we should continue to study the climate and we should find alternative forms of energy, but as of right now we know to little to make a huge jump. This climate change could be happening no matter what we do.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
@gininginin Please be informed that every person endowed with basic culture in all parts of the world know that the climate change happening now is bad for the planet. There's plenty of evidence confirming it. Whyamimrpink78 claims that this isn't the case. I justify such words coming out of hopeless ignorant Reps like Scattnam, but not from someone who claims to have a degree in Physics. That is just appalling. I hope he made it up. This guy gives the US educational system a bad reputation.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy
wow, dude you're retarded. are libeals this stupid? you don't even have a 4th grade education. go back to your one room shack and go back to jerking off to pictures to pictures of obama, idiot. also, nordic countries are very small in population. who cares, dimwitt. 7-9 million people should not be used to represent the better world.
Scattnam 1 month ago
All you need to know about America is that people take this faux populist bullshit for real. This guy reminds me of all of the socialist assholes I used to debate in college who were all living on their parents' dime while I worked 2 jobs to pay my way. Fuck this fat asshole.
pretorious700 1 month ago
America is a LIBERTARIAN Nation.
If he had said "Classical Liberal" he'd have been right, as it is he's only Half-right.
LeoAutodidact 1 month ago
People are socially liberal but economically conservative, and in a lot of way politcally conservatives. That is why conservatives win because people want to control the government and not let it control them. Also, if people that are mored informed on those issues are more conservative because the know issues more. And Moore is not being liberal by saying that blacks and gays have their words. Moore is being anti-liberal by seperating groups like that.
whyamimrpink78 1 month ago
This mans a fucking idiot. Corporate tool.
Petey0707 1 month ago
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Those reactions to "Tax the rich" are just pathetic. I agree 100% that the rich need to be taxed as well. American politics always seem to be about oposing sides. And Micheal Moore by no means helps with bringing sides together. Important non-governmental persons should refrain from picking sides and simplifying complex issues since all that politicians in America have to realise is that they need to work together, compromise and work on a multi-partisan base.
Daydayday2006 2 months ago
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Daydayday2006 2 months ago
Moore said: "TAX the RICH" he will soon regret what he said because he is rich as well, all contributed by gullible clients!!
Farkous101 2 months ago
America is a liberal nation..... and that's why we are failing. This stunt to pretend that liberals are some underdog that are fighting their way to power is just a blatant misrepresentation. Obama is proof that the liberal way doesn't work. Higher taxes, increased spending, big government. Great job, our debt has doubled. At least I can admit voting Obama into office was a mistake. I'm sure there are plenty of ex-libs out there with enough open-mindedness who can say the same.
MrAmputechture 2 months ago
@MrAmputechture Ditto!! American Liberalism actually means let everyone that comes into your country walk on you as if you're doormat with their own beliefs system, and their own backward culture to wipe out your own culture!!
Farkous101 2 months ago
@MrAmpuYou need to research more into what the meanings are. It would be more accurate to say we are a Keynes nation. Liberal doesn't mean big government, it means less. McCain would have enacted many of the same stimulus policies that Bush and Obama did, proving they aren't liberal. Reagan didn't lower the debt, it doubled then too. Facts don't lie. You need research. Culturally, we have a liberal nation. A conservative nation would resemble Iran. Look into classical liberalism; you'll like it.
TigerghostPictures 2 months ago
@TigerghostPictures Obama was elected under the promises to end corporate corruption and tighten the gap between the upper and middle classes. That's what liberalism wanted. What liberalism ACHIEVED is what I am arguing for. Taxing the rich, the large businesses, and other regulations- THIS is what leads to big businesses. The modern liberal somehow believes that an economy can exist with both a small government and small corporate control, and that is why the liberal way does not make sense.
MrAmputechture 2 months ago
@MrAmputechture "This is what leads to big GOVERNMENT". Pardon the typo.
MrAmputechture 2 months ago
Also a comment on this video. Conservatives have not only hijacked the political dialogue of this country, but the political vocabulary.
pboisei 2 months ago
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! ! ! [GIVE BARRY 4 MORE YEARS] ! ! !
pboisei 2 months ago
Michael Moore is an ignorant, arrogant man, and knows well that humour is very effective in bashing opponents. And he poses as a Catholic! He has lost his Catholic Faith. Trouble is many people look to him for leadership. Very effective, but very dangerous to America! If only he would admit that he is no longer a Catholic!
watchful38 2 months ago
I like Michael Moore a lot because he provides a certain viewpoint, but I'm sort of Classical Liberal and would still vote for Ron Paul and his type of capitalism.
I think we should all try to end political corruption in the first place, then work for volountary help for those who need it.
ToxinalX 2 months ago
Christopher Hitchens on Michael Moore
“Europeans think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities"
No9Nando 2 months ago 9
@No9Nando I am European, but I do not think that Michael Moore is "stupid and ignorant". For being an American, Moore is actually very smart. As a European, the horrible stereotype of the fat, ignorant, and stupid American is represented by the horrible and disgusting Republicans. Greedy people like Bush and Cheney. People who would kill thousands of people just to make money. Disgusting people whom would sell their own mothers for a buck. They make me ashamed to be part of humankind.
salvyy 2 months ago
@salvyy Michael Moore is has a very Huge mouth! That's all he has. He professes to be Catholic. As a retired Catholic priest am ashamed of this man. Let him at least admit that he has abandonned his Catholic faith. His ideology is his new found faith, and he has become very popular propagating it to an ignorant populace. BTW I am Canadian and very fearful for America. This Michael Moore has the microphone and does nothing constructive. The man is full of himself. God Save America!
watchful38 2 months ago
@watchful38 I'm a Christian as well. I've never heard of Moore's new found faith...what is it? :-) Why are you ashamed of him? He simply says very true, objective things about the ignorant, incredibly stupid and horrible Republican people. I'm not afraid of the US...I'm afraid of the US ending up in the hands of the Republican party. We all saw what happened to the US and the world during the disgusting Bush admin. Those people are a danger and should be banned from society.
salvyy 2 months ago
@salvyy But you're a dumb Italian. No wonder you find the fat, vulgar, stupid, greedy, and perniciously ignorant Moore "very smart." Moore reportedly has twice the wealth of Bush. So he's thrice as fat and at least twice as greedy. Bush went to Harvard and Yale and finished. Moore flunked out of a lousy college. Clearly Moore is more stupid in academic terms, which is saying something, since Bush was only an average student, by his own admission. You fail. Stick to getting bailed out by Germany.
sklanger 2 months ago
@sklanger Dear racist and incredibly stupid, ignorant man from a Bible-belt American state, Moore is not richer than Bush and not as greedy. He has never invaded a country to favor his corrupt friends killing thousands of people to earn a buck.The unbelievably ignorant Bush went to Yale thanks to his father. A person with no powerful father who's as stupid as him (and you) would never get into Yale. The US debt is as bad as Italy's. Go read the Bible now: you're the shame of humanity
salvyy 2 months ago
@salvyy Dear retarded Italian, I'm not American nor am I from the Bible-belt. Moore has a reported net worth of $50m, Bush $20m. Moore has more than twice his wealth and by that measure is twice as greedy. Moore makes tendentious mockumentaries to swindle a buck from the stupid and gullible (that would be you). Bush may have entered Yale as a legacy admission, but he had no such help for Harvard. He finished from both universities, unlike Moore, who flunked out from his. Go beg Germany for alms.
sklanger 2 months ago
@sklanger Dear ignorant man from a third world country, Moore created his wealth thanks to his talent, Bush comes from a rich family. If you'd studied a little you'd know that that drunken of "W" has failed EVERY business he was in. He's as stupid as you and could never enter a university like Yale/Harvard due to his lack of basic intelligence. I justify your ignorance: the only school in your village was bombed by a US F16 during a war started by the Republicans and couldn't get an education.
salvyy 1 month ago
@No9Nando yeah, cause christopher hitchens was none of those things. i am no fan of moore, but the irony of bringing in hitchens as your representative...
unhingedmind 2 months ago
@No9Nando Canadians think that too.
DannySmith300 1 month ago in playlist More videos from ForaTv
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Skavar4000 2 months ago
Fuck Foratv and their pay to view site! So much for attempting to enlighten the masses. They just want to "touch" people who can afford it.
Skavar4000 2 months ago
What's next? Tony Hayward on ethical business practices?
b1gr1g 2 months ago
America is a continent...
ArgieGamer 2 months ago
I was with Moore until he said the Liberal's want the war to end. NO NO NO. That is a conservative stance. Liberals fight for the emancipation of the victims regardless where they are. Liberals stand with gays, minorities AND the Kurdish and Iraqi liberals. To abandon them is to give up liberty and be an isolationist and extreme conservative and allow the most horrendous acts of conservative barbarism to continue under (insert dictator of choice) rule.
Dafariii 2 months ago
@Dafariii sir look up a book called the thoughts threw twentith centuary.. look at the history colonialism chapter 5 i belive.. ur wrong.
hansson2000 1 month ago
@hansson2000 There is no book by that name. Even if there was I will not go and look it up. Just tell me where I have it wrong and we can have a meaningful conversation on it. Calling on random books and telling me I am wrong is not an argument.
Dafariii 2 weeks ago
@hansson2000 There is no book by that name. Even if there was I will not go and look it up. Just tell me where I have it wrong and we can have a meaningful conversation on it. Calling on random books and telling me I am wrong is not an argument.
Dafariii 2 weeks ago
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@hansson2000 There is no book by that name. Even if there was I will not go and look it up. Just tell me where I have it wrong and we can have a meaningful conversation on it. Calling on random books and telling me I am wrong is not an argument.
Dafariii 2 weeks ago
@Dafariii You sound completely and utterly paranoid. Our country is falling apart, our economy failing, we can't afford to go to war anymore. Hell we can barely afford our own programs. Stop being a sheep and look at the bigger picture.
Petey0707 1 month ago
@Petey0707 I know the USA is in economic trouble. And that would be a reasonable reason not to intervene. But being an isolationist on principle is what I object to.
Dafariii 2 weeks ago
@Dafariii Liberals do not say that USA should be an isolationist country, but rather stop it's imperialist wars, it's a big fucking difference there.
Imhornydadcomeinside 1 week ago
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Dafariii 1 week ago
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Dafariii 1 week ago
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@Imhornydadcomeinside It would be hard to imagine a war that is not imperialistic. After all even taking the side of the victims in Iraq would be considered imperialistic. Or any other intervention that defends principles of freedom and democracy would be imperialistic in a country with a totalitarian dictatorship. So no, I don't buy that argument.
Dafariii 1 week ago
"Don't say anything bag" Michael? You never want to say anything "bad" about those that want to see us all demised don't you? Try to delete me now double faced preacher!!
Sundawncer 2 months ago
gross over simplification Mr Moore, all western countries are "liberal democracies" but that meaning of liberal and modern progressivism are not fully congruent
LeGioNoFZioN 2 months ago
I dont like any labels, dont call me conservative, dont call me liberal, call me Mike wait, wait isnt that my label?
Mikej1592 2 months ago
So Ron Paul is a liberal then according to Michael Moore?
Sanguiluna 2 months ago
@Sanguiluna Ron Paul is a liberal Republican, yes. The word classical liberal comes to mind when you bring up Ron Paul. Economic liberalism is a fundamental element of the Republican Party, whereas Social liberalism is a fundamental element of the Democrat and Libertarian Party [Libertarians are economic liberals too].
TigerghostPictures 2 months ago
How does Michael define liberal? He doesn't, he leaves to term with no definition so it means 100 different things to 100 different people, that way everybody is a "liberal" and everybody will cheer.
WarVideo 2 months ago
@WarVideo
Yes, he was rather vague in this clip, perhaps he say more in the full speech?
He did mention: 'people who are opposed to the wars', 'strong environmental laws', 'people who think women should have equal pay', 'the 72% who think that the upper crust should be taxed', and 'legal gay marriage'.
I wonder if he's defined it in any of his books?
However, *if* being vague for the purposes of forming a group, is the path to civil rights... I guess I'm okay with vague. :\
PurpleGhost 2 months ago
@PurpleGhost If I ask you what a car is and you answer "a car is like a volkswagon", that is not a clear definition. Saying that a liberal is for this or that is also not a clear defnition. Vagueness is is deadly, and must be avoided in any issue,especially in politics. Who will you be lumped in with, what ideas and actions will you support if things are left unclear?
WarVideo 2 months ago
@WarVideo Don't try to change the message: a Liberal is a Liberal, a Republican is a Republican. I am a Liberal, NOT a Republican. If I were a Republican - the worst product ever produced by humankind - I would kill myself.
salvyy 2 months ago
@salvyy Asking for a definition is not changeing the message, its asking for a clear message. "Liberal" or a "conservative" are not self evident terms, they can be stretched to mean almost anything. The real question is what are the fundamental issues in politics, the real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Socialism vs. capitalism.
WarVideo 2 months ago
@WarVideo Ok, but please let's make something very clear: there is a difference between being a "Liberal" and a "Conservative". They're very distinguished concepts. I would feel truly offended to be called a conservative, especially in the American sense of being an ignorant Republican from a Bible-belt state. That is an insult for me. I think that would be an insult for Moore as well. As for the issues, liberals stand for liberal socialism over savage capitalism that is destroying the world
salvyy 2 months ago
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WarVideo 2 months ago
@salvyy Then define your terms.... There is a difference between these two groups but not in fundamental terms. What is the fundamental issue in politics? And where do they both stand?
WarVideo 2 months ago
@WarVideo Liberals stand for liberal socialism, Republicans stand for savage capitalism. Liberals want to tax the people who earn more, the Republicans don't think so. The Liberals are tolerant, the Republicans are not. The Liberals in the US favor universal health care coverage, which is a human right in my opinion, the Republicans are against it. The Liberals favor the less fortunate people, the Republicans only the rich ones.
salvyy 2 months ago
@salvyy Again, that is not a definition.
WarVideo 2 months ago
@WarVideo Ehmm...You're free to think whatever you want, but I believe that any normal person would realize that there is a big distintion between being a Republican and a Liberal by simply looking at the few differences I've indicated. Another difference is that liberal socialists favor the intervention of the government in the economy during recessions (ever heard of Keynes?), while the Republicans are against it. Please do your research and find out more. All best.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy All those policy positions you mention are generally true about liberals. But Im not looking for a list of policy positions, im looking for the basic central belief that a person holds that would result in a person having those policy positions. For example, from the other direction,If you belive that an individul has a right to live for his own sake as an end im himself then that would lead to a belief in capitalism where you dont have a moral duty to be forced to help anyone.
WarVideo 1 month ago
@salvyy Funny. Liberals are tolerant, but Republicans should be banned from society. Your views are repellant, hypocritical and incoherent all at the same time, contradicting yourself from one sentence to the next. Falsely preaching tolerance while asking for others to be banned from society. Dumb Italian fascist. Now we have a repeat of history -- ailing Italians like you groveling to Germany for help. Too funny. Profligate Italians are in no position to lecture America.
sklanger 2 months ago
@sklanger I'm very tolerant. Nothing bothers me. I just hate ignorance bc it's the greatest threat to democracy. Only a fool can compare my little Italy with the most powerful country in the world, which I love despite the absurd Republicans like you. Ignorant people like the Republicans are a threat to the US and the world bc they create monsters. They did in 2000 with Bush and can do it again this year. Ignorant people like you are a threat to humankind and should not have the right to vote.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy C'mon already! Kill yourself indeed! What fatheaded twaddle! What boorish vitriol. But you're forgiven. Liberals can't help replying to logic with such outbursts; you liberals have no other line of defense. On the sidelines...From Canada. ( Our Prime Minister Steven Harper, the new leader of the Free World. And he is a true Conservative. The only hope! Has Obama made any mention of Muslims burning Churches in Egypt or Nigeria? Harper has; he sees evil; he leads!
watchful38 1 month ago
@watchful38 "Kill yourself" LOL are you sure you are a retired "Christian" priest?!? You are intolerant, racist, homophobic, and favor warmongering "leaders". I do hope you are not a pedophile too. You cannot possibly represent MY God. The God I trust is not your god. Christ is against EVERYTHING you stand for. Don't call yourself a Christian! Enjoy the last years of your meaningless existence bc your soul will burn in hell for eternity due to your evil thoughts. Just like any other Republican.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy What really did I say that deserved such a tirade! Please spit it out; what is your beef with the Catholic Church? I must add that I did not tell you to kill yourself. I merely gave you a nudge toward the right way of thinking. But, alas, in vain! This will be my last response to you. Cheers! & God Bless You!
watchful38 1 month ago
@watchful38 From the things you say about the Muslim ppl, Obama, and the fact that you define yourself a Conservative, I can feel what kind of "Christian" you are. But it's ok, no problem. Just two last things: The Catholic Church as an institution is one thing, Jesus Christ is a different thing. The Vatican is the place where a person loses his faith. Second thing: Jesus Christ was a Liberal, unlike you. All best and try to be a normal Christian during the last stage of your life, if you can.
salvyy 1 month ago
@salvyy My parting shot: Hey, I'm not terminal yet! Jesus Christ is the Head of the Catholic Chiurch. "I am the vine you are the branches." Yes the members can and do sin, sometimes very scandously, but the Church with Christ as its head, is the source of "eternal life", even on this earth. See Heb 11:1 and the explanation of this text in Spe Salvi by Benedict VXI, paragraph 7(Downloadable!) Thru the Bible & the Sacraments, esp the Eucharist the Church gives us the "means to Salvation"!
watchful38 1 month ago
@salvyy What is "Eternal Life". It is "knowing & loving God" through Christ. Christ imparts Himself to us by His Word & Sacraments. So even now, before we die, we have "eternal life". This cannot be taken from us. And it comes to its fulness in Heaven where we shall "see" God. God will transform us into Himself. We become like Him, not by nature, but by participation. As finite beings we will never "comprehend the infinite God". Joy, love & peace begin now! May eternal life be yours now!
watchful38 1 month ago
So why exactly do we not see this in actual policies and politicians ?
Hythloday71 2 months ago
Are those "certain words" "Niggers", "Fags" and "Dykes"?
lianghaochen 2 months ago
I hope he's not suggesting that the Democrat party is liberal :/
Mastikator 2 months ago
It probably is true that liberals are the majority, but they don't vote as often as the old white retired Republicans. If you're young and work for a living, you're less likely to vote. If you're old and retired, what else are you going to do?!
TheLonelyImmortal 2 months ago
This fat lard made a grave, but intentional, mistake. He never defined the term liberal which means two very different things, one pertaining to maximum individual rights, and the other pertaining to being nonjudgmental.
zieben64 2 months ago
@zieben64 He's talking about being a social liberal, obviously.
shraka 2 months ago
In a place where the majority of the population watch TV. I say FUCK MAJORITY RULES !!!
th3inquisitiv31 2 months ago
Liberal means being open to NEW ideas. But which ones are you open IF you are a liberal and which ones do you reject.
ceejaywt 2 months ago
@ceejaywt Social Liberalism actually means allowing the state to have a hand in reducing unemployment, dealing with health care and education - while also expanding equality and civil rights. It doesn't actually say much about new ideas, though Social Liberalism is linked to the progressive movement which actively seeks out new ways to run a country (before the old ways become a problem).
shraka 2 months ago
Card carrying and proud Liberal. If someone doesn't like that, I would suggest they look up the definition of the word.
ddoyle11 2 months ago
Moore is right, most American want statism and thats the problem with America.
WarVideo 2 months ago
@WarVideo Telling gay people that they're scum unfit to marry is both a statist and conservative stance. "Liberal" isn't the same as communist or socialist (I'm largely libertarian in views), though some right wing folk want to pretend it is.
basmithtx 2 months ago
@WarVideo So you're anti democracy then?
shraka 2 months ago
@shraka Define democracy.
WarVideo 2 months ago
I agree with anti-war, pro-equal rights, etc... But just without taxation & government.
QuantumGh0st 2 months ago
@QuantumGh0st You can't do that without taxation and government. Why would you want to get rid of your ability to have a say on how the country is run? What would you prefer, anarchy?
shraka 2 months ago
@shraka I am an anarchist, yes.
QuantumGh0st 2 months ago
@QuantumGh0st HA! How naive. You know how corporations have to jump through hoops to get the government to remove the barriers between them and destroying your human rights? Yeah they wouldn't have to do that without a government. How would you suggest you get protected from things like protection rackets without some sort of government?
shraka 2 months ago
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@shraka "You know how corporations have to jump through hoops to get the government to remove the barriers between them and destroying your human rights?"
The government violate human rights on a daily basis i.e. War.
"How would you suggest you get protected from things like protection rackets without some sort of government?"
You mean from people with guns who want power & money? Like the Government.
QuantumGh0st 2 months ago
@QuantumGh0st Society needs some form of government. Anarchy is not an effective system because it goes against every ounce of human psychology. Government starts with family as the basic unit. Did you have a family? Did it have a central figure? Was there some element of authority? Do you have a close circle of friends? Did one friend stand out as the leader of your pack? You cannot run an effective society without some form of government.
TigerghostPictures 2 months ago
@TigerghostPictures Your appeal to tribalism isn't relevant. The government is not a protective fatherly figure. My parents don't threaten me with guns, and take my money to pay for international wars.
QuantumGh0st 2 months ago
@QuantumGh0st You can't fight human psychology. People will be herded and lead by a few people. It is just the way things are. What are you doing now? You are trying to convince me that your way is better. A corporation is lead by a few or a central figure, a school is lead by a principal, There is no way to properly govern a group without government. I am atheist to the idea that society can function without government. At the end of the day, someone has to say yes or no.
TigerghostPictures 2 months ago
Here in australia, Liberal" still means pro-small Government and liberty.
"Liberal" comes from "Libertarian". The progressive democrats hijacked this term to try and escape the stigma of being associated with Hitler / Mousolini.
It's true, look it up.
I don't know what's "Liberal" about confiscating more money from the people to fund broken public schools, useless roads, and endless welfare programs.
You yanks on the left need to come up with a more honest way to describe yourselves.
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder Well put!!!
AtheistSweden 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder Most people I talk to have the ability to separate people with a Liberal view, and those who support the Liberal party. The Liberal party like to pretend they're classical liberals (they're not). Liberal does not come from Libertarian - Libertarian comes from classical Liberalism.
Social Liberals (which is what is meant by Liberal now - sorry words change meaning) mean increasing protections for social liberty by the state.
Useless roads? Are you an idiot?
shraka 2 months ago
@shraka, apart from semantecs - what's your point?
Yes, worldwide public roads systems are useless. Against all odds, many of France's roads are private and run much better.
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder Of course, most people in France don't bother to drive, they use the subway or the trains...
Scientisticsoviet 2 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet, 60+ million people, I'm sure the many who do drive justify building private roads.
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder I didn't say nobody used the roads. But its not like they are necessary or even the cheapest way to move about. Indeed, the idea is that public transport should be of such quality (SNCF being state-owned) such that travel by car becomes basically an optional luxury.
Scientisticsoviet 2 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet, if you're a plumber is Paris and you have a car full of tools, or if you're a real estate agent that needs to be mobile - you'll need a car, and not as a luxury.
Back to my original point. All over the world, Governments have a monopoly over public transport & roads. Forcing citizens to pay into a broken system, and restricting their choice is not what I'd call "Liberal".
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder "Forcing citizens to pay into a broken system"
As far as I know SNCF is self sufficient (Might even pay dividends). Also, France has one of the best rail networks in the world in terms of terms of speed, reliability, an area coverage.
"Liberal"
I rather don't care, I'm not a liberal by most definitions of the term.
Scientisticsoviet 2 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet, well then in that case we don't have a disagreement here...
If it's self sufficient, then people aren't forced to pay into it.
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder Well to be fair those who use need to pay for it XD
Scientisticsoviet 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder :-) Have you ever seen the public transport system in Europe? Have you ever taken a train in France or Germany? How can you define those systems "broken"? The citizens of those countries are lucky to have modern, ultra-functional public transport systems that do not cost them too much because the governments take care of them. I just don't understand why many Americans hate liberal socialism so much. Liberal Socialism is not Communism. It is the exaltation of human dignity.
salvyy 2 months ago
@salvyy Public means privately owned in Europe. The trains, buses and planes are not state owned.
doford 2 months ago
@doford, thanks man,
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder I'd like to see a source for your statement that all or many of France's roads are private because it sounds like bull to me. And, I wouldn't want to hear about some minor project like the one near Paris that is only 10 miles long - that is hardly most of the roads in France.
TigerghostPictures 2 months ago
@TigerghostPictures, on Wikipedia, it's called "Autoroutes of France".
It's a network of 12,000km of roads, not all private but a big part is.
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder The government is still a large contributor to those routes. And then again, the Interstate Highway System had a separate purpose than to provide faster travel for citizens and commerce. It was developed as a way to transport our troops quickly from one side of the country to the other in the event of a foreign invasion. You can't do that with a private system. I think the idea is interesting, but I believe that people are tired of toll routes as it is.
TigerghostPictures 2 months ago
@TigerghostPictures, getting governments involved in these projects is inevitable to some degree.
Why do you oppose toll roads? The idea that road access is given out for free is the biggest cause of congestion. You can keep paving endless roads, you have to find a way to restrict usage. Tolls seem the most practical way to do so.
LibertyDownUnder 2 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder Tolls [whether private or public] seem to be the most practical way to encourage people to drive less and use government-funded services like buses, trains, light-rail, subways, and elevated rail. After paying for gas, mandatory car insurance, and general car maintenance, I think people will bypass driving all together and use public aka "government" transportation more often as a cheaper alternative. I actually kind of like the idea now of privatizing roads.
TigerghostPictures 2 months ago