at the end of the day, if a woman really needs an abortion shes going to get one, even at the risk of her own life & the suffering of the fetus.
my argument for abortion is a simple one: if you dont agree with it, dont get one. but please dont start a war that could result in me having to carry the baby of some sick fuckhead who raped me, or deal with the possibility that my future daughter could come home at 14 knocked up & helpless.
@leachyu: women are victims of abortions when you antichoicers inflict guilt & depression after demonstrating or harassing these women, at the clinics.
many women ARE relieved after an abortion.
.
"some" may get her phone #, and harass her or stalk her then show up at her house demonstrating
:"some antichoicers are also willing to bomb abortion clinics even if there are renters living above, killing doctors,, etc. abortion doctos wear bullent proof vests.
@canadianskye1964 Wow nice logical argument. Abortion kills a human being, those who appose it do so becauuse we believe that is wrong. It has nothing to do with power or sexism. 50% of abortion victims are female.
@canadianskye1964 well at least prochoicer don't lie about abortions causing breast cancer & do dirty tricks to pregnant women such as delaying pregnancy tests, etc. we have never bombed any med clinics, stalked people, taken down car license #s & then stood in front of the house demonstrating, etc, etc, etc,
and what happens if the woman wants an abortion? who are you to force her to keep an unwanted parasite inside her body against her will, civil and constitutional rights?
abortions are necessary society until the standards of beauty and success changes.
It always cracks me up that when I used to go to the free clinic for birth control...the protestors were 90% of the time middle aged men. Sorry boys...and to this guy too. Until you are a young woman, with that feeling that only women get when they know they are expecting...you don't know shit. So many girls terminate their pregnancies because the LOVE their baby...and know they are not ready for them yet. It is an agonizing decision...and THEIRS to make.
@leachyau Ahhh...the age old argument. It is my opinion that it is not killing up to a certain point in the pregnancy. And wiht all due respect, please don't flood my inbox with why you think it is...I have given this issue much, much thought and reflection.
Respectfully, at what point in the pregnancy is it not killing? and what happens at that moment that makes it wrong to kill after it and okay before?.
@leachyau abortion is killing. & yes biologically a zygote is a human coz it contains 2 sets of human DNA from a male & female gamete. but is that really all it takes for a being to have personhood? even if it has no functioning brain or any semblance of a human?
& for that matter if i was to miscarry coz i was being reckless (say, running after my bus & tripping over) would i then be guilty of man slaughter? & am i forced to take responsibility even when i was raped?
With abortion as a legal option for women, it is now safer to have an abortion than to carry a child to term and deliver. This is clearly not a reason to have an abortion, but you should do a little fact-checking before you broadcast your opinions and incorrect "facts" over the World Wide Web.
Great, another man with an opinion on abortion and child birth! This is a womans issue. Perhaps you should go to medical school and learn about what you are preeching and then come back with some real facts
@yiqanuc How dare I stand up against the slaughter of thousands of innocent children. Sure I will never be directly invloved but thats irrelevant. If you see injustice you must speak out against it whether your directly involved or not.
That's great and all but how are you going to force women to give birth against their will? If we could count on the support and kindness of others abortion would have stopped on it's own already without having to owtlaw it. The only way to truely reduce abortion is by improved access to birthcontrol. Yet many "pro-lifers" do not support that. If you could force women to give birth, what would you do with the unwanted babies? Are you going to support them all?
You're right in that you don't fix one problem in creating another. However unsafe abortion is the direct consequence of making safe abortion illegal.
If the number of lives prevented by legal abortion may easily exceed the number of women whose lives would be lost should abortion be banned.
It's not a question of quantity but of value. I would say that the life of a woman, being a sentient and independent human being, far outweighs that of a dependant embryo.
it's the pro-choice side who are trying to fix the problem with another problem. You are the ones who say it's okay to kill thousands of children each year if it means some women survive. I agree that we should try and save those women but I don't think we should do it by killing thousands of children. The number of women who are saved by legalization of abortion would be far out weighed by the number of unborn children who are lost each year because of the legalization of abortion.
why is a five-month-old child any less valuable than 5 year old and besides it isn't even a fair comparison because while the mother is giving up nine months of life the child is giving up the entirety of its.
A fetus isn't just younger than a baby. A fetus is within and dependent on the body of another person, infringing on that person's right to control their own body if it happens that said person doesn't want that fetus there.
There are many differences between a baby and a fetus besides that as well, especially if it' one less than 8 weeks gestation, the stage that most abortions are carried out. To say that a little worm with no capacity to think or feel is worth the life of a woman is sick.
Ok you've bought up a couple of issues there. One you've assumed dependency and location somehow make someone less human, But I ask you why is that so. Just because a fetus is parasitic doesnt mean its any less human. And Peoples rights are restricted all the time in order to protect others. In this case its a choice between the woman giving up nine months and the child giving up its entire life. rights must be balanced and in this case the choice is obvious.
Never mind for a minute that there's a lot more to being human than having human DNA. Even if you want to pretend a fetus is the same as a child or a woman and that it has a right to life, that right does not extend to the right to the body of another. The woman doesn't owe anyone use of her body. Carrying a fetus to term may be a generous act, but not an obligatory one. The choice isn't obvious at all, it depends only on the woman involved.
Its right to life trumps the womans right to control her own body, It wouldn't if the child maliciously put itself in the womb but because both parties are innocent victims both their rights need to be considered and in the case of pregnancy the womans right to control her own body is limited by the child's right to life. in the same way my right to movement of my fist finishes an inch from your nose. ultimate freedom leads to oppression of the weak by the strong which is what abortion is.
Do other people have a right to your kidneys, if they need them? I'm not asking if you would donate them of your own volition. I'm asking if those who need organ transplants have the right to harvest what they need from the bodies of others even if that donor is unwilling so long as that unwilling donor could survive without it albeit at diminished health and ability.
common argument but critically floored because i am not obligated to do something which would save someones life. however i am obligated to not do something which would end someones life. for example its murder to run someone down with your car, its not murder to just not stop. pretty low but not murder
Abortion is not allowing a fetus to remain in the body of an unwanted host.
You're drawing the distinction between killing and letting die.
Well, in the case of the issue you address in your video, I actually would like to do something that would prevent needless death of women.
You know women. They're people. They have thoughts, emotions, memories, senses. They aren't just potential people, they ARE people. I wouldn't risk their lives for the sake of non sentient embryos.
Risk their lives? really. Pregnancy is no longer a risky procedure with the amount of fatalities being minuscule compared to that of abortion 1 in 10 of which leaves the women permanently injured in some way. But for the record if you watch some of my vids youll see that i say if theres is a legit risk to the mothers life i accept abortion to be van option but those cases are very few and by aborting your doing something which will lead to death that is the definition of killing.
The scenario you describe is only true of unsafe, 'back alley abortions,' which is what I was referring to in my previous comment. Abortion procedures performed by medical professionals are actually very safe having lower fatality rates and lower rates of complications for women than childbirth which is itself very low in societies where adequate medical care is available.
The idea that abortions at clinics and in hospitals under trained professionals is dangerous for women is simply not true.
Uh, huh. Now what are the rates of complications of childbirth? You can't make a comparison with only one data set.
By the way, about 20 percent of pregnancies result in miscarriage anyway. That's reported miscarriages, mind you. Many more spontaneously miscarry without the woman even realizing she's pregnant so the miscarriage rate for the general population is estimated to be closer to 50%. This is normal and has nothing to do with medical abortion.
Thats the same argument as people die of natural causes so it should be "ok" to murder. Of course there are natural abortions, death is part of life and people of all ages die, however it doesn't follow that just because people naturally its ok for us to go around causing unnatural deaths which is what abortions are.
No it isn't. You're the one who was saying that abortion is more dangerous than childbirth and then used a misleading miscarriage statistic to show it. It was YOUR argument, I just called you on it.
If it's unwanted, it's a serious problem. And attempting to end an unwanted pregnancy can itself be fatal.
Aside from that, and being a violation of her right to her own body, an unwanted pregnancy can severely hamstring a woman's life, present and future.
But don't take my word for it. Go talk to women who have chosen to abort. Ask them why and listen without trying to impose your ideology. I think you'll find that an unwanted pregnancy is a lot more than simply and inconvenience.
No one is trying to undermine the problem of unwanted pregnancy. They are a huge issue and one of the biggest problems facing our society but the solution cannot be to kill one of the victims. that is not a solution. we need to give women in this situation more love care and support and i mean financial and career support. we also need to focus on prevention through education but as i say in my videos you cant fix one problem by creating another.
For the most part, I agree with that. Pregnant women need more than words and free diapers. They need very real medial care and financial, career, and educational assistance. Given that women facing unplanned pregnancy might be less likely to need abortion. And of course preventing unwanted pregnancy with comprehensive education is an obvious step.
and the crime of killing someone isn't in the act itself but is the fact that your depriving them of the rest of their life. So it doesn't matter how old a person is killing is always wrong.
very nicely said.
i agree with you.
mschmidtable 2 months ago
More love, more care, and more support do not make a woman want to go through nine months of hell playing incubator to a parasite!
ImFlareonBitch 3 months ago
at the end of the day, if a woman really needs an abortion shes going to get one, even at the risk of her own life & the suffering of the fetus.
my argument for abortion is a simple one: if you dont agree with it, dont get one. but please dont start a war that could result in me having to carry the baby of some sick fuckhead who raped me, or deal with the possibility that my future daughter could come home at 14 knocked up & helpless.
TheBgoz 3 months ago
@leachyu: i quote missnevada as below
you & i are neve going to agree, so take care & have a good life!
canadianskye1964 1 year ago
@leachyu: women are victims of abortions when you antichoicers inflict guilt & depression after demonstrating or harassing these women, at the clinics.
many women ARE relieved after an abortion.
.
"some" may get her phone #, and harass her or stalk her then show up at her house demonstrating
:"some antichoicers are also willing to bomb abortion clinics even if there are renters living above, killing doctors,, etc. abortion doctos wear bullent proof vests.
t
canadianskye1964 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheBgoz 3 months ago
abortion is about power.
men are using abortion to exert the ultimate power over women
it has nothing to do about prolife. you loser
canadianskye1964 1 year ago
@canadianskye1964 Wow nice logical argument. Abortion kills a human being, those who appose it do so becauuse we believe that is wrong. It has nothing to do with power or sexism. 50% of abortion victims are female.
leachyau 1 year ago
Comment removed
canadianskye1964 1 year ago
@leachyau keep abortion legal!
canadianskye1964 4 months ago
@leachyau so you would outlaw abortion so women would resort to back alley abortions, use coat hangers and household chemicals to abort
very nice attitude to the women already here.
canadianskye1964 3 months ago
@canadianskye1964 well at least prochoicer don't lie about abortions causing breast cancer & do dirty tricks to pregnant women such as delaying pregnancy tests, etc. we have never bombed any med clinics, stalked people, taken down car license #s & then stood in front of the house demonstrating, etc, etc, etc,
canadianskye1964 1 year ago
watch the video "techniques that woman used to induce abortions' by bill baird.
you retard. you are too young to even remember;
once again you are a man who thinks with his penis rather than his brain,.
canadianskye1964 1 year ago
If you make abortion illegal coat hanger abortions will happen.
MusicMaggie101 1 year ago
@MusicMaggie101 Than thats an issue we need ton tackle, but making killing innocent children legal is not a viable solution.
leachyau 1 year ago
@leachyau
and what happens if the woman wants an abortion? who are you to force her to keep an unwanted parasite inside her body against her will, civil and constitutional rights?
abortions are necessary society until the standards of beauty and success changes.
FREEAMERICANOW69 5 months ago
PRO-CHOICE IS THE ONLY WAY!
PALOMITA694 1 year ago
the cider house rules
avlyanel 1 year ago
It always cracks me up that when I used to go to the free clinic for birth control...the protestors were 90% of the time middle aged men. Sorry boys...and to this guy too. Until you are a young woman, with that feeling that only women get when they know they are expecting...you don't know shit. So many girls terminate their pregnancies because the LOVE their baby...and know they are not ready for them yet. It is an agonizing decision...and THEIRS to make.
MissNevada08 1 year ago
@MissNevada08 Killing is not love, Killing is never in a childs interests. Would you extend this logic to new born babies?
leachyau 1 year ago
@leachyau Ahhh...the age old argument. It is my opinion that it is not killing up to a certain point in the pregnancy. And wiht all due respect, please don't flood my inbox with why you think it is...I have given this issue much, much thought and reflection.
MissNevada08 1 year ago
Respectfully, at what point in the pregnancy is it not killing? and what happens at that moment that makes it wrong to kill after it and okay before?.
leachyau 1 year ago
@leachyau I appreciate that you are trying to discuss this respectfully...but you and I are not going to see eye to eye on it....take care...
MissNevada08 1 year ago
@leachyau abortion is killing. & yes biologically a zygote is a human coz it contains 2 sets of human DNA from a male & female gamete. but is that really all it takes for a being to have personhood? even if it has no functioning brain or any semblance of a human?
& for that matter if i was to miscarry coz i was being reckless (say, running after my bus & tripping over) would i then be guilty of man slaughter? & am i forced to take responsibility even when i was raped?
TheBgoz 3 months ago
With abortion as a legal option for women, it is now safer to have an abortion than to carry a child to term and deliver. This is clearly not a reason to have an abortion, but you should do a little fact-checking before you broadcast your opinions and incorrect "facts" over the World Wide Web.
ikibook 1 year ago
Great, another man with an opinion on abortion and child birth! This is a womans issue. Perhaps you should go to medical school and learn about what you are preeching and then come back with some real facts
yiqanuc 1 year ago
@yiqanuc How dare I stand up against the slaughter of thousands of innocent children. Sure I will never be directly invloved but thats irrelevant. If you see injustice you must speak out against it whether your directly involved or not.
leachyau 1 year ago
You are incredibly naive, that's all I have to say.
Kolibri2005 1 year ago
@Kolibri2005 Your the one who is Naive, If you understood what abortion is, you too would see it as a human rights issue, not a womans rights issue.
leachyau 1 year ago
That's great and all but how are you going to force women to give birth against their will? If we could count on the support and kindness of others abortion would have stopped on it's own already without having to owtlaw it. The only way to truely reduce abortion is by improved access to birthcontrol. Yet many "pro-lifers" do not support that. If you could force women to give birth, what would you do with the unwanted babies? Are you going to support them all?
jstherapeutic 2 years ago
You're right in that you don't fix one problem in creating another. However unsafe abortion is the direct consequence of making safe abortion illegal.
If the number of lives prevented by legal abortion may easily exceed the number of women whose lives would be lost should abortion be banned.
It's not a question of quantity but of value. I would say that the life of a woman, being a sentient and independent human being, far outweighs that of a dependant embryo.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
it's the pro-choice side who are trying to fix the problem with another problem. You are the ones who say it's okay to kill thousands of children each year if it means some women survive. I agree that we should try and save those women but I don't think we should do it by killing thousands of children. The number of women who are saved by legalization of abortion would be far out weighed by the number of unborn children who are lost each year because of the legalization of abortion.
leachyau 2 years ago
All the aborted fetuses in the world cannot match the value of even one woman. There is a wold of difference between a person and a potential person.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
why is a five-month-old child any less valuable than 5 year old and besides it isn't even a fair comparison because while the mother is giving up nine months of life the child is giving up the entirety of its.
leachyau 2 years ago
I'm not comparing a 5 month old to a 5 year old. (Unless you mean 5 moths gestation.)
I'm comparing a fetus to someone who is already born, and therefore much more valuable.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
Thats discrimination on th basis of age, The question you need to answer is WHY is someone who is born much more valuable.
leachyau 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A fetus isn't just younger than a baby. A fetus is within and dependent on the body of another person, infringing on that person's right to control their own body if it happens that said person doesn't want that fetus there.
There are many differences between a baby and a fetus besides that as well, especially if it' one less than 8 weeks gestation, the stage that most abortions are carried out. To say that a little worm with no capacity to think or feel is worth the life of a woman is sick.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
Ok you've bought up a couple of issues there. One you've assumed dependency and location somehow make someone less human, But I ask you why is that so. Just because a fetus is parasitic doesnt mean its any less human. And Peoples rights are restricted all the time in order to protect others. In this case its a choice between the woman giving up nine months and the child giving up its entire life. rights must be balanced and in this case the choice is obvious.
leachyau 2 years ago
Never mind for a minute that there's a lot more to being human than having human DNA. Even if you want to pretend a fetus is the same as a child or a woman and that it has a right to life, that right does not extend to the right to the body of another. The woman doesn't owe anyone use of her body. Carrying a fetus to term may be a generous act, but not an obligatory one. The choice isn't obvious at all, it depends only on the woman involved.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
Its right to life trumps the womans right to control her own body, It wouldn't if the child maliciously put itself in the womb but because both parties are innocent victims both their rights need to be considered and in the case of pregnancy the womans right to control her own body is limited by the child's right to life. in the same way my right to movement of my fist finishes an inch from your nose. ultimate freedom leads to oppression of the weak by the strong which is what abortion is.
leachyau 2 years ago
Do other people have a right to your kidneys, if they need them? I'm not asking if you would donate them of your own volition. I'm asking if those who need organ transplants have the right to harvest what they need from the bodies of others even if that donor is unwilling so long as that unwilling donor could survive without it albeit at diminished health and ability.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
common argument but critically floored because i am not obligated to do something which would save someones life. however i am obligated to not do something which would end someones life. for example its murder to run someone down with your car, its not murder to just not stop. pretty low but not murder
leachyau 2 years ago
Abortion is not allowing a fetus to remain in the body of an unwanted host.
You're drawing the distinction between killing and letting die.
Well, in the case of the issue you address in your video, I actually would like to do something that would prevent needless death of women.
You know women. They're people. They have thoughts, emotions, memories, senses. They aren't just potential people, they ARE people. I wouldn't risk their lives for the sake of non sentient embryos.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
Risk their lives? really. Pregnancy is no longer a risky procedure with the amount of fatalities being minuscule compared to that of abortion 1 in 10 of which leaves the women permanently injured in some way. But for the record if you watch some of my vids youll see that i say if theres is a legit risk to the mothers life i accept abortion to be van option but those cases are very few and by aborting your doing something which will lead to death that is the definition of killing.
leachyau 2 years ago
The scenario you describe is only true of unsafe, 'back alley abortions,' which is what I was referring to in my previous comment. Abortion procedures performed by medical professionals are actually very safe having lower fatality rates and lower rates of complications for women than childbirth which is itself very low in societies where adequate medical care is available.
The idea that abortions at clinics and in hospitals under trained professionals is dangerous for women is simply not true.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
from David Reardon's book who interviewed a random sample of women who had had an abortion provided by planed parent hood.
7% of all abortions result in some type of physical complication
6% have resulted in total hysterectomies
6% reported cervical cancer
8% had blocked fallopian tubes
9% had infections
8% had cervical incompetence
15% had post-operative hemorrhage
22% miscarried a later wanted child
leachyau 2 years ago
Uh, huh. Now what are the rates of complications of childbirth? You can't make a comparison with only one data set.
By the way, about 20 percent of pregnancies result in miscarriage anyway. That's reported miscarriages, mind you. Many more spontaneously miscarry without the woman even realizing she's pregnant so the miscarriage rate for the general population is estimated to be closer to 50%. This is normal and has nothing to do with medical abortion.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
Thats the same argument as people die of natural causes so it should be "ok" to murder. Of course there are natural abortions, death is part of life and people of all ages die, however it doesn't follow that just because people naturally its ok for us to go around causing unnatural deaths which is what abortions are.
leachyau 2 years ago
No it isn't. You're the one who was saying that abortion is more dangerous than childbirth and then used a misleading miscarriage statistic to show it. It was YOUR argument, I just called you on it.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
And if you think the only problem with unwanted pregnancy is nine month of inconvenience, you've sorely misunderstood the problem.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
I do not mean to undermine the the stress of pregnancy in any way but are you really prepared to claim that its a fate worse than death.
leachyau 2 years ago
If it's unwanted, it's a serious problem. And attempting to end an unwanted pregnancy can itself be fatal.
Aside from that, and being a violation of her right to her own body, an unwanted pregnancy can severely hamstring a woman's life, present and future.
But don't take my word for it. Go talk to women who have chosen to abort. Ask them why and listen without trying to impose your ideology. I think you'll find that an unwanted pregnancy is a lot more than simply and inconvenience.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
No one is trying to undermine the problem of unwanted pregnancy. They are a huge issue and one of the biggest problems facing our society but the solution cannot be to kill one of the victims. that is not a solution. we need to give women in this situation more love care and support and i mean financial and career support. we also need to focus on prevention through education but as i say in my videos you cant fix one problem by creating another.
leachyau 2 years ago
For the most part, I agree with that. Pregnant women need more than words and free diapers. They need very real medial care and financial, career, and educational assistance. Given that women facing unplanned pregnancy might be less likely to need abortion. And of course preventing unwanted pregnancy with comprehensive education is an obvious step.
These are all very important things to do.
juliewashere88 2 years ago
and the crime of killing someone isn't in the act itself but is the fact that your depriving them of the rest of their life. So it doesn't matter how old a person is killing is always wrong.
leachyau 2 years ago