I've been hurt by black block tactics. I was hit by a glass just above my eye from a broken bottle that was thrown by the blackblock at anti-cuts protest in london. I was at the front, next to the police line and the black block threw glass bottles from the back. After I was hit I asked them to stop and they threatened me. I also am an anarchist and they certainly did not protect me.
@yossariancomplex Dude ... a riot is a dangerous place. That reflects little on the black bloc. If you built up a relationship with some militants (for years BEFORE the riot) then you have a much better chance of them "protecting" you. But really, you should protect yourself. Throwing a bottle isn't "black bloc tactics" either.
@TyrannisSicSemper It was the black bloc that threw the bottle(s) there fore I say it was a black bloc tactic- are they not responsible for the bottles they threw? I don't expect anybody to protect me, I was simply stating an instance in which the Black Bloc attacked me because the lady praised them for protecting protestors.
@yossariancomplex Well, this lady has been to demos where the kids in the bloc WERE protecting people. Her experience is different from yours. But throwing things isn't a "black bloc tactic" because lots other people throw thing too, get it?
The "black bloc tactic" is wearing masks and black clothes and sticking together.
Throwing things was invented a million years before the black bloc.
Whoever threw that bottle that hit you is who you should be mad at.
@TyrannisSicSemper Also, it wasn't a riot it was a protest, and by your logic I should expect anyone I don't have previous relationship with to throw bottles at me.
Yeah, you lost me at the "white male privilege" bullshit. I love when privileged middle class people regurgitate the divisive identity politics crap they learned in their overpriced universities without the slightest irony or awareness that they are more privileged than the majority of working class people...white, male or otherwise. I don't give a shit that you're a "woman of color" nor can that possibly have any impact on the validity of what you're saying to anyone who isn't a racist.
All you need to know about the effectiveness of Black Bloc tactics is the police hire agents provocateurs to mimic this kind of action. They do this because they know it is devisive and alienates people who are interested only in non-violent resistance. From a tactical standpoint, the police want people to engage in direct action against the state's strongest points, which are the police and military, because they are guaranteed to lose. Doing the cops' work for them is stupid.
@yossariancomplex Utopian belief systems are staggeringly similar. With some, the utopia is achieved by adherence to a god(s), in others, anarchism, communism et al., the utopian is created by destruction and rebuild. All of them, however, seek to make everyone conform to the utopian ideologies, and are generally uncompromising.
@Exmech2 Anarchism is not a religion. Communism is not a religion. There are no gods in Communism nor Anarchism. You have a shallow understanding of Anarchism.
@LostAmongGiants I said that anarchism is not a religion ,not that you can't be religous and anarchist at the same time, because of course that is possible (obviously). I think you need to read the whole thread.
Where have the Black Bloc been for the last year? They are parasitising and damaging a cause they did not have the presence of mind to start themselves. Their divisiveness and destructiveness to the #Occupy movement could not be more effective if they were paid trolls being bankrolled and managed by corporate think thanks. In my view, this is what they are: astroturfed fakes. If they are not, they may as well be.
Actually, here's the thing -- you don't see black bloc people doing their non-black bloc work (which is VITAL) because THEY'RE NOT IN BLACK BLOC WHILE THEY DO IT.
A lot of Anarchists disavow Black Bloc, you know why?
Because Black Bloc hurts the cause. Most of Black Bloc are cops and cointel, what they always do is make sure no one hears the message or has any sympathy to it, because people look at the protest and see a bunch of violent vandals with no actual plans other than to throw rocks at cops and start a riot.
They show up out of nowhere, destroy a protest that has any potential to pose any real threat to the 1%, and vanish without a trace.
Sorry sister you don't get to claim a monopoly on a lot of these tactics for Black Bloc.
As far as I'm concerned Black Bloc consists of a bunch of kiddies and cops in black hoodies throwing bottles and breaking windows, insisting it's not an affinity group even though their egos are completely tied up in it and they identify as it.
Srsly, I'm not opposed to violence and vandalism, but I am opposed to fail, and all I see from Black Bloc is fail.
@TypicalDream :p Of course I'd expect a non sequitur from a black bloc sympathizer, most are police, and the ones that aren't typically have the intellectual capacity of a chimpanzee on steroids.
Search here for "Why the military knows Israel did 9/11" & "Zionists own d.c." & "Bush nazi" & "Cheney war crimes" & "Obama war crimes" & "Monsanto Banned" & "Monsanto india suicides" & "HAARP" & "Chemtrails" & "Morgellon's" & etc, etc...WAKE UP, PEOPLE..!
@TyrannisSicSemper Of course Walia is herself middle class, from a privileged background. This is true of almost all ideologues of anarchism in North America from what I've observed.
These anarchy movement are very healthy for society in the next 10-20 years. Trim off the fats of civilization also known as government-supported entities.
I am not a an anglo, not a lander on plymoth rock and I am not an ice bridger, my people are victim of Western Alliance and Soviet Union. So I'd like to say, fuck this Ice bridge crosser land bullshit. Idiots need a spectrometer, the closer to white means more color not less. Darker the more color. Black is void of color, white is all colors in total blend. Ask an art student before opening you mouth. Organized anarchists, this kills me. People own those windows.
@gsrenouf google a mess of terms like-- derailing, privilege analysis, kyriarchy, etc. i dont quite agree with it either.. its almost incomprehensible to me.
the subtext is that the black bloc is almost always accused of being a bunch of white kids, and of endangering people of colour, because police reprisals often target these people especially brutally.
this person is debunking that veiw, by saying "hey, i'm not white, and i don't think this endangers me."
"as a woman of color", what does that have to do with anything? It's phrases like "of color" that turn off a lot of people from these things. Shouldn't ethics and these movements be universal?
She was responding to a comment by a white middle-class activist who suggested that "people of colour" and other marginalized groups were "put at risk" by the black bloc. She resented this guy presuming to speak for her.
@TyrannisSicSemper And then she made some offhand comment about white privilege. It was funny to see the camera pan out to a bunch of white male faces in the audience nodding their heads.
Using big words doesn't justify property damage that discredits peaceful protesters. If your goal is change, you need the support of the public. If the public - rightly or wrongly - doesn't view those tactics as helpful, your point has been missed and your help is not welcomed among our ranks. IF, in the public's collective mind, the black bloc tactics are useful and helpful, then and only then, are they acceptable. You are doing nothing but isolating and discrediting anarchism.
The hell are you talking about? It's either stupid or intentionally dishonest to make sweeping general statements about "the public collective mind".
Obviously such a large group of people will have every conceivable opinion under the sun.
Only mainstream media outlets seem to be able to gauge the "public opinion" and it always conveniently condones or condemns exactly what serves state and corporate interests. Property damage is a powerful political statement. Period.
Stupid or intentionally dishonest? I was with organized labour that day. We were there speaking out against the same corporate and state interests you were, we just were smart enough to know that smashing a Star Bucks window wasn't going to achieve anything but bad press - because we know how the corporate media works. This doesn't mean I have sympathy for, or my loyalties lay with, corporate interests. A means must work to achieve an end, if not it is just a waste of time.
Just because you can't see the end, or relate to it, doesn't mean it's not there.
Property destruction is supposed to outrage the propertied classes, which includes the middle-class, and it resonates with those who are frustrated by the tyranny of private property, as well as those of us who love watching the hysterics when business-as-usual is disrupted.
It's a powerful psychological statement, self evident in the emotional reactions it triggers. Ripples in the pond, etc
If your end is to create emotional reactions and make a psychological impact, then the job was done. But if your end is create real change, then you have miserably failed.
I am a leftist libertarian and I am frustrated with the system of property that exists. But you also have to understand that people, including the middle class, are just trying to provide for their families in the system they were born into.
A true libertarian, or anarchist, doesn't believe in violent acts. The minute you pick up a rock and break a window you are becoming the oppressor and the authoritarianism you speak out against. I believe in effecting change by peaceful means and even if people weren't targeted by these so-called 'anarchists' they still terrified many people, including women, children, and elderly people who were there marching in solidarity with organized labour. This is an act of aggression.Period
Actually a "true" anarchist, whatever that is, wouldn't presume to dictate methodology to others. Ironic that you're accusing us of being authoritarian as you dictate terms of acceptable political expression.
So what if you believe in peaceful means? I respect that, I believe the same, I just don't limit myself to peaceful means, or presume to limit others to peaceful means. Period.
The possibility of minor emotional trauma is cause to not use a tactic? Ludicrous!
@UglyFacet So if someone's methodology was to let loose in the crowd with an assault rifle you wouldn't have anything to say because a "true" anarchist doesn't dictate methodology? What about removing some limbs with a grenade? How destructive does it have to get before we're allowed to criticize the methods?
It's about respect for diversity of tactics. There's a huge difference between respectful criticism and sanctimonious condemnation by someone preaching the "one true way".
Don't you think that's an unfair comparison? Property destruction is about an attack on the notion of private property which is a common anarchist perspective.
Mowing unarmed people down with machine-gun fire is the act of a psychopath. Distinction much?
@jessecullen1 yea well, tell that to the peacefull native american tribes who put down their weapons and signed treaty's......and in the end get screwed.
Infiltrating a labour march to use as a cover to commit property crimes is not something I would consider heroic or admirable. 99% of the people at that march were against the tactics used by the faux anarchists. The only thing you accomplished was giving the police the excuse to arrest your brothers and sisters and the media a reason to focus on vandalism instead of the destructive policies of the G20.
We don't much care about being deemed "heroic or admirable" or not.
The police state in Toronto was harassing, arresting and brutalizing the resistance for weeks before the riot, so there goes your theory that we provoked them.
It's almost as if any dissent is a flimsy rationalization for the police state, and not the real cause of it! Imagine that! (You've got your cause and effect backwards)
Also, that was "the people's march", not YOUR march. Get over yourself.
People are largely constructed by capitalism. Their opinions are largely constructed by capitalist media, which will always denounce anything not in the economic interests of the owners, managers and clients of the capitalist media. Action against the interests of capitalists will therefore never gain popularity until the flow of capital is disrupted and capitalist normality is disturbed. That's what a riot does.
That's why these tactics help anarchism and anarchy.
I've been half-heartedly attempting to figure out what the deal with the Black Bloc's deal was. Glad I found something that would seem to show me. Thanks.
I've been hurt by black block tactics. I was hit by a glass just above my eye from a broken bottle that was thrown by the blackblock at anti-cuts protest in london. I was at the front, next to the police line and the black block threw glass bottles from the back. After I was hit I asked them to stop and they threatened me. I also am an anarchist and they certainly did not protect me.
yossariancomplex 2 weeks ago
@yossariancomplex Dude ... a riot is a dangerous place. That reflects little on the black bloc. If you built up a relationship with some militants (for years BEFORE the riot) then you have a much better chance of them "protecting" you. But really, you should protect yourself. Throwing a bottle isn't "black bloc tactics" either.
It's just straight-up lobbing a projectile ...
TyrannisSicSemper 1 day ago
@TyrannisSicSemper It was the black bloc that threw the bottle(s) there fore I say it was a black bloc tactic- are they not responsible for the bottles they threw? I don't expect anybody to protect me, I was simply stating an instance in which the Black Bloc attacked me because the lady praised them for protecting protestors.
yossariancomplex 12 hours ago
@yossariancomplex Well, this lady has been to demos where the kids in the bloc WERE protecting people. Her experience is different from yours. But throwing things isn't a "black bloc tactic" because lots other people throw thing too, get it?
The "black bloc tactic" is wearing masks and black clothes and sticking together.
Throwing things was invented a million years before the black bloc.
Whoever threw that bottle that hit you is who you should be mad at.
TyrannisSicSemper 10 hours ago
@TyrannisSicSemper Also, it wasn't a riot it was a protest, and by your logic I should expect anyone I don't have previous relationship with to throw bottles at me.
yossariancomplex 12 hours ago
@yossariancomplex Ha! Maybe when you're standing next to the cops, yeah!
TyrannisSicSemper 10 hours ago
Yeah, you lost me at the "white male privilege" bullshit. I love when privileged middle class people regurgitate the divisive identity politics crap they learned in their overpriced universities without the slightest irony or awareness that they are more privileged than the majority of working class people...white, male or otherwise. I don't give a shit that you're a "woman of color" nor can that possibly have any impact on the validity of what you're saying to anyone who isn't a racist.
Koukabura 3 weeks ago
All you need to know about the effectiveness of Black Bloc tactics is the police hire agents provocateurs to mimic this kind of action. They do this because they know it is devisive and alienates people who are interested only in non-violent resistance. From a tactical standpoint, the police want people to engage in direct action against the state's strongest points, which are the police and military, because they are guaranteed to lose. Doing the cops' work for them is stupid.
Koukabura 3 weeks ago
After this video, and a quick perusal of the anarchotards posting here, I can only conclude that anarchism is a non-theistic religion like cult.
Exmech2 4 weeks ago
@Exmech2 Non-theistic religion?!?! Excelent conclusion.
yossariancomplex 2 weeks ago
@yossariancomplex Utopian belief systems are staggeringly similar. With some, the utopia is achieved by adherence to a god(s), in others, anarchism, communism et al., the utopian is created by destruction and rebuild. All of them, however, seek to make everyone conform to the utopian ideologies, and are generally uncompromising.
Exmech2 2 weeks ago
@Exmech2 Anarchism is not a religion. Communism is not a religion. There are no gods in Communism nor Anarchism. You have a shallow understanding of Anarchism.
yossariancomplex 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@yossariancomplex "There are no gods..."- Hence "Non-Theistic" religion.
"You have a shallow understanding of Anarchism."- Translation: you don't anything about: Islam, Christianity, Anarchism, ad nauseum.
Anarchism is certainly a utopian religion, and anarchists confirm this every day.
Exmech2 2 weeks ago
@yossariancomplex There can be religion in anarchism. Anarcho-pacifist people tend to be christian. christian anarchists do exist.
LostAmongGiants 1 week ago
@LostAmongGiants I said that anarchism is not a religion ,not that you can't be religous and anarchist at the same time, because of course that is possible (obviously). I think you need to read the whole thread.
yossariancomplex 1 week ago
@yossariancomplex I did but I misunderstood you, that is my mistake. I apologize for jumping in on that
LostAmongGiants 1 week ago
@LostAmongGiants No need to apolagise.
yossariancomplex 1 week ago
Where have the Black Bloc been for the last year? They are parasitising and damaging a cause they did not have the presence of mind to start themselves. Their divisiveness and destructiveness to the #Occupy movement could not be more effective if they were paid trolls being bankrolled and managed by corporate think thanks. In my view, this is what they are: astroturfed fakes. If they are not, they may as well be.
lizzalittlewort 4 weeks ago
@lizzalittlewort No u.
Actually, here's the thing -- you don't see black bloc people doing their non-black bloc work (which is VITAL) because THEY'RE NOT IN BLACK BLOC WHILE THEY DO IT.
AcrosticAcoustic 4 weeks ago 4
A lot of Anarchists disavow Black Bloc, you know why?
Because Black Bloc hurts the cause. Most of Black Bloc are cops and cointel, what they always do is make sure no one hears the message or has any sympathy to it, because people look at the protest and see a bunch of violent vandals with no actual plans other than to throw rocks at cops and start a riot.
They show up out of nowhere, destroy a protest that has any potential to pose any real threat to the 1%, and vanish without a trace.
Laughingblades 1 month ago
Black Bloc is so full of fail it's hilarious.
Sorry sister you don't get to claim a monopoly on a lot of these tactics for Black Bloc.
As far as I'm concerned Black Bloc consists of a bunch of kiddies and cops in black hoodies throwing bottles and breaking windows, insisting it's not an affinity group even though their egos are completely tied up in it and they identify as it.
Srsly, I'm not opposed to violence and vandalism, but I am opposed to fail, and all I see from Black Bloc is fail.
Laughingblades 1 month ago 2
@Laughingblades Your opinion is invalidated by your constant use of the word "fail." Go back to the internet baby revolutionary.
TypicalDream 1 month ago
@TypicalDream Hahaha that's a logical fallacy!
Laughingblades 1 month ago
@TypicalDream :p Of course I'd expect a non sequitur from a black bloc sympathizer, most are police, and the ones that aren't typically have the intellectual capacity of a chimpanzee on steroids.
Laughingblades 1 month ago
anarchist grls are so dreamy.....
ch3trash0 1 month ago
Deport all illegal aliens.
inurtrash 1 month ago
Search here for "Why the military knows Israel did 9/11" & "Zionists own d.c." & "Bush nazi" & "Cheney war crimes" & "Obama war crimes" & "Monsanto Banned" & "Monsanto india suicides" & "HAARP" & "Chemtrails" & "Morgellon's" & etc, etc...WAKE UP, PEOPLE..!
MacDaddyBanks 1 month ago
she needs to practice talking slower. love the message but its hard to follow.
vibrantlightwc 1 month ago
@TyrannisSicSemper Of course Walia is herself middle class, from a privileged background. This is true of almost all ideologues of anarchism in North America from what I've observed.
IWWSocialist 3 months ago
These anarchy movement are very healthy for society in the next 10-20 years. Trim off the fats of civilization also known as government-supported entities.
biglemoncoke 3 months ago
We love you Harsha! Solidarity!
Pi11z3ury 3 months ago
The privy is more anglo-saxon western eurpeanish, well not Irish unless Orange or Ulster, but color thing is mindless.
dubya3cdotcom 4 months ago
I am not a an anglo, not a lander on plymoth rock and I am not an ice bridger, my people are victim of Western Alliance and Soviet Union. So I'd like to say, fuck this Ice bridge crosser land bullshit. Idiots need a spectrometer, the closer to white means more color not less. Darker the more color. Black is void of color, white is all colors in total blend. Ask an art student before opening you mouth. Organized anarchists, this kills me. People own those windows.
dubya3cdotcom 4 months ago
Sorry, but what a bunch of crap. That Harsha uses race do invalidate the other speaker's point of view. Absolutely racist.
gsrenouf 4 months ago
@gsrenouf google a mess of terms like-- derailing, privilege analysis, kyriarchy, etc. i dont quite agree with it either.. its almost incomprehensible to me.
otacon451 4 months ago
@gsrenouf
the subtext is that the black bloc is almost always accused of being a bunch of white kids, and of endangering people of colour, because police reprisals often target these people especially brutally.
this person is debunking that veiw, by saying "hey, i'm not white, and i don't think this endangers me."
anarcrustie 3 months ago
oso...was sittin in quantico waitin2get kicked out the usmc while u $poke
ChristianLegacy 1 year ago
"as a woman of color", what does that have to do with anything? It's phrases like "of color" that turn off a lot of people from these things. Shouldn't ethics and these movements be universal?
TreachMarkets 1 year ago
@TreachMarkets
She was responding to a comment by a white middle-class activist who suggested that "people of colour" and other marginalized groups were "put at risk" by the black bloc. She resented this guy presuming to speak for her.
TyrannisSicSemper 10 months ago
@TyrannisSicSemper And then she made some offhand comment about white privilege. It was funny to see the camera pan out to a bunch of white male faces in the audience nodding their heads.
TreachMarkets 10 months ago
@TreachMarkets
Heh! Yeah, irony isn't wasted.
But plenty of us pasty white folks were completely disgusted with O'Keefe's attitude too.
(that's the guy sitting next to her if you didn't already know)
Gord Hill made some great points about how class privilege was part of the issue too.
TyrannisSicSemper 10 months ago
Comment removed
dubified89 1 year ago
Harsha is a tireless activist. Huge respect!
Sad day if she ever gets tired of trying to talk sense in to the rest of us, but I doubt it!
UglyFacet 1 year ago
Using big words doesn't justify property damage that discredits peaceful protesters. If your goal is change, you need the support of the public. If the public - rightly or wrongly - doesn't view those tactics as helpful, your point has been missed and your help is not welcomed among our ranks. IF, in the public's collective mind, the black bloc tactics are useful and helpful, then and only then, are they acceptable. You are doing nothing but isolating and discrediting anarchism.
jessecullen1 1 year ago
@jessecullen1
The hell are you talking about? It's either stupid or intentionally dishonest to make sweeping general statements about "the public collective mind".
Obviously such a large group of people will have every conceivable opinion under the sun.
Only mainstream media outlets seem to be able to gauge the "public opinion" and it always conveniently condones or condemns exactly what serves state and corporate interests. Property damage is a powerful political statement. Period.
UglyFacet 1 year ago
@UglyFacet
Stupid or intentionally dishonest? I was with organized labour that day. We were there speaking out against the same corporate and state interests you were, we just were smart enough to know that smashing a Star Bucks window wasn't going to achieve anything but bad press - because we know how the corporate media works. This doesn't mean I have sympathy for, or my loyalties lay with, corporate interests. A means must work to achieve an end, if not it is just a waste of time.
jessecullen1 1 year ago
@jessecullen1
Just because you can't see the end, or relate to it, doesn't mean it's not there.
Property destruction is supposed to outrage the propertied classes, which includes the middle-class, and it resonates with those who are frustrated by the tyranny of private property, as well as those of us who love watching the hysterics when business-as-usual is disrupted.
It's a powerful psychological statement, self evident in the emotional reactions it triggers. Ripples in the pond, etc
UglyFacet 1 year ago
@UglyFacet
If your end is to create emotional reactions and make a psychological impact, then the job was done. But if your end is create real change, then you have miserably failed.
I am a leftist libertarian and I am frustrated with the system of property that exists. But you also have to understand that people, including the middle class, are just trying to provide for their families in the system they were born into.
jessecullen1 1 year ago
@jessecullen1 Of course people are providing for their families, who's disputing that? How does that relate to a broken bank window? It doesn't.
UglyFacet 1 year ago
@UglyFacet
A true libertarian, or anarchist, doesn't believe in violent acts. The minute you pick up a rock and break a window you are becoming the oppressor and the authoritarianism you speak out against. I believe in effecting change by peaceful means and even if people weren't targeted by these so-called 'anarchists' they still terrified many people, including women, children, and elderly people who were there marching in solidarity with organized labour. This is an act of aggression.Period
jessecullen1 1 year ago
@jessecullen1
Actually a "true" anarchist, whatever that is, wouldn't presume to dictate methodology to others. Ironic that you're accusing us of being authoritarian as you dictate terms of acceptable political expression.
So what if you believe in peaceful means? I respect that, I believe the same, I just don't limit myself to peaceful means, or presume to limit others to peaceful means. Period.
The possibility of minor emotional trauma is cause to not use a tactic? Ludicrous!
UglyFacet 1 year ago
@UglyFacet So if someone's methodology was to let loose in the crowd with an assault rifle you wouldn't have anything to say because a "true" anarchist doesn't dictate methodology? What about removing some limbs with a grenade? How destructive does it have to get before we're allowed to criticize the methods?
TreachMarkets 10 months ago
@TreachMarkets (this is my new account AKA UglyFacet)
It's about respect for diversity of tactics. There's a huge difference between respectful criticism and sanctimonious condemnation by someone preaching the "one true way".
Don't you think that's an unfair comparison? Property destruction is about an attack on the notion of private property which is a common anarchist perspective.
Mowing unarmed people down with machine-gun fire is the act of a psychopath. Distinction much?
TyrannisSicSemper 10 months ago
@jessecullen1 yea well, tell that to the peacefull native american tribes who put down their weapons and signed treaty's......and in the end get screwed.
thiizzman510 2 months ago 6
@UglyFacet
Infiltrating a labour march to use as a cover to commit property crimes is not something I would consider heroic or admirable. 99% of the people at that march were against the tactics used by the faux anarchists. The only thing you accomplished was giving the police the excuse to arrest your brothers and sisters and the media a reason to focus on vandalism instead of the destructive policies of the G20.
jessecullen1 1 year ago
@jessecullen1
We don't much care about being deemed "heroic or admirable" or not.
The police state in Toronto was harassing, arresting and brutalizing the resistance for weeks before the riot, so there goes your theory that we provoked them.
It's almost as if any dissent is a flimsy rationalization for the police state, and not the real cause of it! Imagine that! (You've got your cause and effect backwards)
Also, that was "the people's march", not YOUR march. Get over yourself.
UglyFacet 1 year ago
@jessecullen1
People are largely constructed by capitalism. Their opinions are largely constructed by capitalist media, which will always denounce anything not in the economic interests of the owners, managers and clients of the capitalist media. Action against the interests of capitalists will therefore never gain popularity until the flow of capital is disrupted and capitalist normality is disturbed. That's what a riot does.
That's why these tactics help anarchism and anarchy.
guatahala 2 months ago 14
its like I've finally found a breath of fresh air. beautifully articulated -- exactly what needs to be said. Solidaridad sin fronteras
thejuryissleepless 1 year ago
I've been half-heartedly attempting to figure out what the deal with the Black Bloc's deal was. Glad I found something that would seem to show me. Thanks.
pendulousphallus 1 year ago