Perl vs Python debate live from OSCON 2011

[nayarakde]

Python is my first language and Perl is my second language.

[squfucs]

I'm sorry Trish.

[AlexFromHowest]

Oh my god that woman annoys me

[ChannelingusLLC]

....what ever happened to COBOL and PL/1??

[frepkin]

Perl is American, and Python is British. Right?

[SAMY2690]

@frepkin yet still gary mckinnon used perl to hack in to NASA & PENTAGON you know the story US Military

[mandolearner]

Peter Scott.....respect.

[mandolearner]

hmm....Peter Scott says " I am here to praise Python"....That seems to be the motto of most Perl guys..... Perl guys seem to be ok with Python...Many Python guys seem to be on a "I dont like Perl" trip. In my very narrow visioned, untrained view (which can be completely dissed out of the window), Perl developed as a response to a need for text processing, whereas Python seems to be developed allmost as an antithesis to Perl......Zen Of Python allmost confirms that.

[tubeyoutobe888]

So who is winning? By that I mean which classes and certificates at O'Rielly have more student enrollment?

[DrowzyShooter]

Unicorn Support! A necessary function for every programming language!

[interstellarvoid]

@oreillyschool Don't worry Trish, they're just a bunch of frustrated geeks that get rejected by women throughout their lives (the ones with ugly/hurtful comments).

@kotapaka I think that your comment is quite degrading to engineers (I'm one), it makes us look like pompous $#*@. Also, if you don't have time to learn a new language than you must not be a very good engineer because you should be able to quickly adapt and learn new technologies all the time (and do it with no effort).

[kotapaka]

I know neither perl nor python. I'm an engineer (not an admin, not the guy who created your website - more like the guy who built the engine in your car, the processor in you computer or the plane you took last year). I don't have time to learn a new language now but if I did it would be python. From what I hear perl is ambiguous which is something I dislike and I think goes against engineering/science.

[beardymonger]

Hahaha, "No string in Perl 6 will be a syntax error", i liked that one.

[numba1netsfan]

were do girls like this come from <.<

[vadiethestar]

OK,let's put a flame on this video, you can down vote me all you want but here's the quote

“PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals.”

(Jon Ribbens)

[peczenyj]

imagine Perl6...

[someman7]

Macintosh vs a PC was never a debate. It's a commercial by Apple, the first PC manufacturer, now a gadget company for rich hipsters that specializes in marketing.

[fc4est]

Python #7 "Proper Function Signatures" starting at 14:43 : Why does the host bring up C ? C has proper function signatures in the same sense as python does. There are also advantages to the perl way of doing things -- just to mention one, it's easy to add optional parameters without breaking existing calls -- but instead the would-be-rebuttal time is wasted humoring the host's uninformed comment.

[oreillyschool]

@fc4est Trish here. I was referring to Steve's assertion that the parameters themselves must be defined separately in Perl. In C, all variables must be declared at the top of main(), which I assumed to be comparable to his reference. He appeared to confirm this.

Aside from the OSCON crowd, there's a large viewer contingent consisting of OST students and those wishing to learn more. My job was to represent the non- Perl/Python programmer in this respect; wasn't trying to distract. All in fun.

[fc4est]

@oreillyschool Sorry, Trish, but you were mistaken. A function signature is how you tell what parameters are being passed in to a function. In C and Python, these are listed out in the function declaration, and the compiler or interpreter will reject and attempt to call the function with the wrong number and/or type of parameters being passed in.

In Perl parameters are passed into a function as a list, without any such restrictions, and it's up to the subroutine to unpack them as it sees fit.

[fc4est]

@oreillyschool I meant to say " ... the compiler or interpreter will reject anY attempt to call the function ..." I guess we all make mistakes :-)

As long as I'm making a second comment, I should explain that what you brought up about C is type declarations for variables, which is not really the same thing.

[oreillyschool]

@fc4est This is Trish - I do apologize for misunderstanding the original statement. I see now that Steve was intending the separate function declaration to be a feature, and I agree with you that the ability to add optional parameters without breaking existing function calls might be more practical.

[fc4est]

@oreillyschool To be clear, this is the only substantive error I found in your comments. I suspect it is largely if not entirely this mistake which gave rise to the rude comments disparaging your intelligence ... but then this is youtube, so maybe they didn't even watch it.

I don't think you deserve to be put through the wringer, and I think you did a good job of moderating what was basically a fun little discussion. But an error like that does stand out like a sore thumb to a geek crowd.

[oreillyschool]

@fc4est Thank you Forrest. Having to monitor three cameras, a Twitter feed, producer messages, and a live audience outside of our glass box left me with little attention left to properly parse the meanings of everything the two said in real time.

Just for the record: I graduated with honors from a top 5 Computer Science department and have programmed for 24 years, yet this is the first I've heard of function signatures. Guess I should take the Python and Perl courses to brush up. --Trish

[Htbaa]

@oreillyschool I guess that's correct. Not a native English speaker here, sorry.

[fc4est]

They would do better to gang up on the host and explain why PHP is truly the Language From Hell.

[oreillyschool]

@fc4est It appears that the YouTube commenters are doing a fine enough job of ganging up on the host. Personally we'd like to see more lucid arguments in support of their favorite programming languages instead.

[Htbaa]

First she says she doesn't know what Obfuscated Perl means then minutes later she said she has heard of competitions around obfuscated Perl. Right...

[oreillyschool]

@Htbaa Those are not conflicting comments - it's possible to have heard of something without knowing what it means. However, the opposite is not true.

[schmootzy]

I think the CPAN bit really killed the Python talk.

[oreillyschool]

Trish here. Perhaps in the spirit of Perl I should have reduced the syllables of my introduction to minimize mass YouTube backlash: "Perl. Python. Debate. Go." Or maybe I should have coded in droll silence instead of moderating?

The whole point of this debate was to be silly and make dumb little comments that aren't needed - just like YouTube. Go ahead, be irritated if you can't use the skip button. But if you judge how much I know based on one video, you obviously know very little about me.

[nomulous]

@oreillyschool Without being immature or meaning to offend, it was obvious from the rather long video that you aren't a very experienced programmer. All the little things like "What's obfuscation?", "Was Perl the first language to take on Regex?", "Unicorn support", "explain to me about Unicode", completely missing the point about the 0-index accessing, etc. I think that someone more experienced could have provided a lot better commentary for the debate.

[vadiethestar]

@nomulous dude,you totally nailed it! i wanted to say something similar, but you just put it beautifully.

[oreillyschool]

@nomulous Not everyone watching the debate is an experienced programmer; therefore it's my job to ask those questions. Sorry about the unicorn.

[nosedejameenpaz]

I have never seen unicorn support in Perl :(

[Martyeffinmar]

Peter Scott held his own quite nicely, as well.

[Martyeffinmar]

Steve Holden for the win!

[matelotgeek]

terrible "mediator"

[zsmughal]

I have no problem with the host. If you are going to comment, focus on the message not the messenger, though I know I shouldn't expect much given the state of YouTube comments.

[alexiocowabunga]

Please Trish stop speaking - program more!

[joslin01]

Honestly though, this host is irritating and obviously knows very little. She makes dumb little comments that aren't needed

[edencardim]

@joslin01 she's team PHP, that's why

[oreillyschool]

@matelotgeek It's precisely this sort of flippant comment that perpetuates sexism in Computer Science and Information Technology: blogs.law.harvard.edu/dlaroche­lle/2011/06/13/sexism-in-infor­mation-technology/

[Neewok2]

Wow, unicorn support is is a Perl feature I didn't know about (10:59).

[gudata1]

Python is for people which can't learn Perl. They will miss Perl in their whole life.

[holdenweb]

@KitUkraine Well spotted! No way I can fix the code typos now ... but thanks for pointing it out.

[DaTube1000]

Well Python is the language of choice for professional development. When you need maintainable code, the whitespace syntax is a blessing because it forces people to keep it readable.

Perl is good for kids and scripters but not for anything serious or large scale.

[edencardim]

@DaTube1000 It's not good for anything large scale? How about "The Internet"? Nuke every perl program and see what happens.

[KitUkraine]

Python code at 20:00 is wrong:

>>> 3+"12 # no ending ", will be SyntaxError

>>> "3"*"xxx" # will not give 'xxxxxxxxx', will give TypeError

[cocol0pez]

A modern language intentionally designed to have whitespace be syntactically meaningful?!? 'nuff said.

[traximpact]

And btw Python trumps Perl any day

[traximpact]

She sounds like Claire from the series 'Heroes'.

[SciPoly]

I find it funny that people actually defend Perl. "Brought to you by people who thought cgi was a good technology"!

[nunofelicio]

@SciPoly ,well when cgi was created there wasn't cpu power to run interpreted languages. And between asp/asp.net and cgi.... i still think its almost a stalemate , with a small advantage to cgi :D LOLOLOLOL