Added: 5 years ago
From: Gabba02
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  • I prefere the Kurt Moll recording on youtube. Probably cause I'm a German enthusiast and hate to see the language changed.... Does anyone else think Pape does strange things with his vowels (i.e. "salvation" @ 1:39) ?

  • Danke, habe Link gesetzt

  • Jesses, Iris Osiris!

  • Che delusione... ho suonato con Pape molti anni fa, all'inizio della sua parabola artistica, e mi aveva fatto ben altra impressione. Aveva una voce molto ampia, ma anche morbida e molto ben emessa, con un bel legato che riecheggiava lo stesso Ramey. Sembrava sulla strada di diventare un autentico fuoriclasse.

    Invece, qui sento molta fibra, suoni duri ed ingolati, estremi bassi svuotati e persino vagamente rauchi. Boh, sono alquanto perplesso.

  • His voice is nice, he just doesn't have the rumbles....like a real bass. IJS...

  • Emissione sguaiata e tendente al nasale, non c'è rotondità, morbidezza, piuttosto molto spesso fibra, ovvero gola. La linea è condotta senza alcun pathos interpretativo, solfeggiata priva di un vero legato, senza alcuna flessione espressiva ed agogica; totale l'incapacità di emozionarsi.

  • @JosquenD LOL

  • Whether in German or English or in any other language, René Pape's voice has such a lot of strength and clearness that it doesn't depend. For me he is one of the best and greatest opera singers in our modern era.

  • Now this sucked...Kurt Moll and in german....please!

  • @maleficare In German yes, but I prefer Samuel Ramey to Kurt Moll

  • WARUM!!?

  • SARASTRO ¡Oh Isis y Osiris conceded a ésta nueva pareja el espíritu de la sabiduría! Vosotros que guiáis los pasos de los peregrinos, fortalecedlos en el peligro dándoles paciencia. Hacedles ver el premio de la prueba; y si debieran ir a la tumba, recompensad su audaz virtud, acogiéndolos en vuestra morada. (Traducción libre) Vosotros que guiáis los pasos de los peregrinos, fortalecedlos en el peligro,dándoles paciencia. Hacédles ver el premio de la prueba;
  • So beautiful , so moving , a masterpiece.

  • English or German Version - Nebbich! This wonderful Music sounds great in every language, even in Klingon!

  • @MrTelltale Star Trek Zauberflote... I'm surprised some German director, or Peter Sellars, hasn't done it yet! lol

  • @lucyliesinashes I think, this is able to do only Leonard Nimoy. So forward - let's give him oxygen!

  • Not to be a debbie downer, but really Rene Pape is a bass-baritone. His low F's in O Isis und Osiris are almost nonexistent. You can't argue against that either because this video is all the evidence you need. This is not at all disrespectful to Mr. Pape in any way, shape, or form, I'm merely stating what is evident. Mr. Pape is a phenomenal singer. I have a recording of this in English as well of me performing if interested. Just remember I'm still a beginner.

  • German bass sings a German aria in English? Can somebody say Irony?

  • MAGNIFIQUE PRODUCTION ET BASSE SUPERBE !!!!

  • Paul Robeson's version, also on YouTube, has a different english text. So there are different translations?

  • @uglymoon78 Yes, many. It was to be translated not just for meaning, but for rhyme and vowels. It's called a "singable translation" and each translator copyrights them.

  • Compare with Aria: " O Gudar ! Styrken mig " from opera Aeneas i Cartago by JOSEPH MARTIN KRAUS (1756-1792).

  • OSIRIS WAS REFERRED TO AS- THE PERFECT BLACK ---WHY ARE THE ACTORS WHITE ????--EUROPEANS DISTORTED AFRICA'S HISTORY AND DESECRATED OUR GODS !!!!!!

  • Magnificen production and great voice, but my question is the same, WHY IN ENGLISH??? Must be german, is a singspiel, non a Haendel's opera :( So sad.

  • @Gabofeles

    It's an abridged version in English targeted more toward children. In this particular performance numbers were shortened or totally cut and some text was change. But they still do plenty of the full original libretto and length. This was just the kid's version. Relax.

  • @Jaydoggy531 LUCKY Kids getting to see Rene Pape at a "children's show!"

  • I think because of were Rene Pape's passagio lies in his voice, he is either a high bass or a bass-baritone. I personally think more the latter, because he is certainly no Kurt Moll, who is a true bass.

  • @UKbasso22 I agree. This is a VERY modest performance of this piece, especially for the fees he's commanding. He's a bari-bass or a lazy bari.

  • @nshelton88 You make a great point that I never really took into account. Although I think that this aria sounds better sung in German, I do see your point and yes to keep opera alive in the US is a huge task.

  • in english? this is just aweful... what a shame

  • @lancagel Agree

  • Like dark chocolate and caramel for the ears, wonderful.

  • In every case, the costumes are breathtaking. I have never seen a more beautiful Sarastro. I think René Pape will have sound better in German anyway.

  • I'm a fan of opera in the orig. lang., but do you realize that the U.S. is the only place that attempts to sing every opera in the orig. lang.? In Italy, Spain, Germany...they regularly sing translations and realize that many of the composers even thought it ridiculous to listen to operas in foreign languages.

    The goal is to keep opera alive in the U.S., not to satisfy a proud group of purists. Sadly, we're really the last country to realize the benefits of presenting accessible art. It shows.

  • superbe, malgré son interprétation en anglais, il c'est faire les 3 fa dièses c'est le principal. BRAVO MON PAPE

  • Having heard Pape live on numerous occasions, I find assertions that he either has a "small" voice or is not a "true bass" to be laughably absurd.

    I guess some people's idea of opera singing really is screaming at the top of the lungs...

  • @BorisGodunov I love René pape, and do think he is a bass with a big voice. However, this aria doesn't show the best of him...He surely is a bass but not a deep bass, and I think his Gounod's Mephisto suits him much better than Sarastro..;I lose the quality of his timbre in this recording, maybe he was just in a bad day

  • Beautiful, beautiful performance. I found this extremely moving and lovely. Thank you for posting this, Gabba.

  • The costumes are absolutely great.

  • His voice is quite too small to fill this role.

  • but what an F

  • i forgot, if someone cld plz tell me, which is higher: barritone or bass? lol im pretty sure its barritone but if someone cld plz answer tht wld b a big help :]

  • bass

    lower

  • thts wat i thought thnx so much

  • La voz de Rene Pape cada vez más grandiosa, aunque es surrealista escuchar Die Zauberflöte en Inglés.

  • Great voice, good production, but in english? Pls, let us see in german!

  • @Gabofeles Agree

  • He sings well, but---UGH-what a musically inept translation. One wonders if the translator was a native English speaker. or if (s)he ever listened to the music!

  • Very well, but WHY IN ENGLISH???

  • ANd why not? It's nice to understand what's going on for a change without using subtitles. And before you call me names, I'm multilingual myself.

  • this translation sounds AWFUL!!!!!

  • @zdymadlo Because this is the HD cinema showing of "The Magic Flute" that was performed and taped live at the Met a couple of years ago. It was heavily abridged for younger audiences ( I guess maybe those with a short attention span) and translated into English. Julie Taymor directed this. This year, Ms. Taymor directed the full-length original at the Met, in the original German. Both versions were broadcast over the radio.

  • @zdymadlo Its the met, a lot of operas nowdays are performed in english there.

    Thats because the want that everyone understands.

  • @luisiege2 Actually, no. Only the Christmas time children production is translated into English (this one, for instance).

  • @zdymadlo english version really sucks...

  • @zdymadlo and that for a german bass.

  • @zdymadlo This was a children's version of Die Zauberflote. It was only two hours and in English so that little children wouldn't have to read the subtitles to understand.

  • ARE YOU ILL? Rene Pape? Not a real bass?

    Get your ears checked

  • @me148 your right he is a baritone and can't really pull it off like kurt moll

  • @me148 I think he means not a basso profundo.. compare with Martti Talvela's rendering for instance. Mind you he sings it very well for a bass-barytone.. although I'm not sure why the conductor goes through it as if he had a train to catch.. As to singing this in English.. sigh..

  • @me148

    To me he sounds like a basso cantante, a light bass, a shade under the lowest bass-baritone. He is absolutely not a profundo and I would further say that this production was miked.

  • I heard him live and the voice is bigger and darker that way. I understand btw why dont you think he is a bass... you were friend with Jerome Hines, and compared to him everyone else sounded like a tenor with a cold.

  • Yes, but that is only part of it. We have come into an era of vocal miniaturism where people with small voices are far preferred to people with big voices. In many cases I will hear a singer today who would never have been hired in my day. This is the era of the vocal miniaturist. Rene Pape has a lovely timbre but it is not a very impressive voice as regards resonance. Siep. Tozzi and Hines are what basses sound like. These other creatures are not basses. But its not their fault. It is the era.

  • To be fair, he seems to have no misunderstandings regarding his voice, he seems to be pursuing wotan as a role, which he has a well sized voice for.

  • vocal miniaturism ?!?!? what are you talking about ? every era knew very famous singers with both big and small voices. Try and compare Pavarotti and Simoneau, for example, going a bit backwards, and Ben Heppner with Juan Diego Florez presently, and that's just a couple examples of tenors. And a smaller voice desn't necessarily means it's not as good as a big voice, and small voices often tend to be healthier than huge dramatic voices.

  • That's a perfection comparison. I knew Jerome Hines and I had the privilege to work with him on a recital concert. His rich bass voice is for the ages. I like Rene Pape and his vocal texture and interpretations. And like Hines, Pape commands a strong stage presence.

  • I regard myself as a baritono (F2 to A4), but my low F certainly is not so strong! He must be bass also because of the spoken sentence at the beginning.

  • @eutanazius Ofcourse he is a bass. In fact this aria is ment for a basso profondo, which is the deepest kind of bass and it requires a certain charachteristic timbre also... Kurt Moll is probably the best example of a basso profondo still singing today. So just compare Pape's voice with Moll's and you'll hear=)

  • @danieldedaldo I know, that he´s basso, of course :-) Only Mr. Shore was saying something different...

  • ...die Arie wäre besser in der Originalsprache rübergekommen.

  • WSTYD!!! HAŃBA!!! Śpiewać M O Z A R T A po angielsku?! Szczyt wszystkiego!! Okropne... I znowu ci durni amerykanie dopuścili się profanacji tak wielkiego dzieła!!! Gdyby słyszał to Mozart, to by się w grobie przewrócił..

    !!!

    "Śpiewanie oper w języku angielskim, jest tak bezsensowne, jak gra w baseball we Włoszech[...]"

    Wstyd!!!

    Żal, żal, zal, żal, żal, żal... Prawdziwy meloman powinien się wstydzić tego ^ czegoś ...

    -100/10

    ;-(

  • It was not his best day! But the best bass nowadays!

  • In English?hahaha....it sounds ridiculous!

    Poor Mozart,always betrayed!

    MOZART forgive them,

    they dont know what they do...

  • I suppose that if you are a moderate bass singer (like me) then it makes it easier to copy. I sing along with him on the odd occasion, certainly can't with Moll's version in German, which of course is better on the ear, especially if I'm doing a bit of accompaniment!!!

  • Yes, it's just plain absurd in English.

    People, resist this Brave New World's dumbing down. Speaking of the BNW, see my list on amazon by googling these words:

    Resist the Brave New World

  • this version was produced by the metropolitan opera as a way of introducing a younger audience to opera. It's very "kid friendly," I know this because i was at this performance, and there were basically a bunch of kids there. The younger children aren't going to read the translations on the screens(much less know the language), it's just too hard, but exposing them little by little, I guess, is what was intended.

  • Yes, it's part of this Brave New World's soft discrimination of low expectations.

  • oh, okay, let's expect every child to know two+ languages before middle school O__O. I knew two languages before I entered middle school, but one of them was not german...By kids I meant 4-10 yr olds.

  • I generally would agree with you on this point, but I believe there is something to be said for this idea of reintroducing good music into society. As mote65 stated, it was intended for younger audiences who would probably be unable to translate the text on their own and even possibly be too young to read, but no one is too young to appreciate art, as long as it can be understood. This seems to be a stepping stone on the way to bringing the classical forms closer to mainstream audiences.

  • Pape is not a real basso profondo; enough to listen to Kurt Moll, Talvela, Plishka, etc., not to speak of the Russian basses...

  • I thought Pape was a Bass-Baritone! I love his voice more and more...

  • I think he is...sounds like it here anyway.

  • I am so disappointed....

    The voice lacks passion.

  • personally i prefer the german.

  • What a terrible costume...

    Pape´s deep F isn´t very good,the tone is going back in his mouth instead of in front.

  • I like the costume...I'd wear it

  • meh... I prefer Tom McNichols' performance over this.

  • René Pape?.. Are not he Sarastro in The magic Flute? Nice voice! :-)

  • Try this, it's maybe slightly better...although in German.

    Kurt Moll - O Isis und Osiris

  • I don't think I've ever been as moved by this aria as by this performance. Wonderfully sung in every respect (voice, interpretation, phrasing, etc).

  • he is my god <3

  • He's a very noble bass.

    Hans NL

  • All wrangling about translation aside; Mr. Pape transcends the limitations of the English version, and crafts an exquisite rendering of the aria.

  • English is absolutely out of the question. It is an absolute monstrosity. The debate ends here. It is a profane butchery.

  • I didn't care for the translation in this Met version, especially in the dialogue sections. I have heard much better English versions.

  • Maybe, but there are worse ones too. Check out the Ruth and Thomas Martin translation.

  • There's nothing wrong with doing opera in a translation. If it gets more people into the opera, great. Purists can always find productions in the original languages.

  • This point could be argued, but I think first the translation would have to be easily understood. I am a native English-speaker and needed those subtitles.

  • Die Zauberfloete should NEVER be song in english. It sounds terrible. Better not to understand the words but keep true to Mozart and Schickaneder.

  • Reading some of these comments you'd think the entire world spoke fluent German. While I readily admit that many English versions are clumsily translated, the point remains that most of the general public does not(!) speak German. If I were to see this with someone who didn't know the language, I would greatly prefer a translation that all could understand and enjoy. It's still Mozart, stop pretending to be a connoisseur of high art just because you watch something in a foreign language.

  • A German bass, singing a German aria in English... how absurd.

    But he sounds great. Beautiful lownesses, velvety voice.

    I've heard it in Hungarian many times (from the magnificent Mihály Székely) and in Swedish, too. But English never...

  • They did a good job of keeping from being too awkward and they kept good vowels on the low notes.

  • I've heard a lot worse english translations.

    Still like the German better

  • I don't think I like this aria in English. It should be in German. :D

  • In English or In german Rene Pape is magnificent!

  • Very awkward English to my ears...not his best. And that costume...

  • Si effectivement Die zauberflöte devrait être chantée dans sa version originale, René Pape est quand même un Sarastro exceptionnel que j'ai découvert grâce au film de Branagh. Quelle voix magnifique j'ai eu l'occasion d'écouter dans ce petit bijou qu'est Die Zauberflöte. Merci Monsieur

  • Eh...I sat DIRECTLY in front of Pape when he was singing Wagner in concert a year ago. His voice is not as deep/bass-like as you might think...but I hope he will make an excellent Wotan.

  • ¿¡En Ingles!!???

  • It's funny to read that some "experts" here categorize nearly every bass singer (even Kurt Moll!) on youtube as "baritone" or "too light". That's stupid! René Pape is no russian profondo or something like that but he has the bottom and the weight for Sarastro. Go and listen to him on stage!

  • Hehe, funny, that's exactly what I'm arguing about in a Ruggero Raimondi post, where some people are accusing him of being too lazy to sing baritone, so he sings bass. Now, Pape is definitely a bass, no argument there; you don't get hired to sing Gurnemanz, Fasolt, Hunding, or King Marke unless you're a bass...

  • I agree he doesn't have the weight or the colour for Sarastro.

  • I don't think he really has the bottom for this (and there is no pun intended their). His speaking voice is cooler than his singing voice in this.

  • uiikioi

  • Voice is OK, but "Die Zauberflote" in English Spanish, Swedish (Ingmar Bergman!) kills the genius of Mozart.

    Poor Wolfgang Amadeus!

  • How so? Mozart only wrote the music, and this translation doesn't change the melody at all. The only "genius" killed here is that of Schikenader(sp?).

  • I disagree as German songs translate so readily into English, without too much re wording to keep the meter.

  • well... I think if Die Zauberflöte would originally have been written in English, then Mozart would composed the music differently from the German version.

  • Exactly. That is also my opinion!!

  • Not his best singing... but what a bass nonetheless. best young bass out there. Also, one comment, he is German. He probably has sung this in his mother tounge 100 times. The english, to my bass ears, sounds so difficult to sing for him. But his enlgish diction is good.

  • sorry for misspelling initiative, not "iniciative"...

  • To me this is The Highest Point in Die Zauberflote. One of the most exquisite extracts from Mozart's immortal genius. Pape's rendition is absolutely noble and this version couldn't possibly be more moving. Profondo or not, his sovereign basso is dense and masterfully delivered, and his Sarastro speaks to the gods. BRAVISSIMO !

  • We should all give a standing ovation to Geld's, Maestro Levine's and Ms. Sills' revolutionary iniciative in broadening American audiences' perspective of the most sublime art form. Through their innovative work in bringing Met's Top-notch productions IN VERY ELEGANT ENGLISH to silver screens in our own towns, many families now have the precious opportunity of being exposed to this fascinating world called Opera. Thank you Peter Geld. BRAVI TUTTI !

  • He looks like a big piece of cheese

  • haha very true

  • It's not Kurt Moll or Matti Salminen, and it is in English, but it's still pleasing to the ears. :)

  • yeah me too!so much better in german!i saw the german version and it was just great!!

  • i hate english translations

  • This is the version that was shown live in HD?

  • Oh my gosh! Do you realize you're the only person who has this stuff?? I've been looking so hard for the Papageno/a duet from this performance! Do you have it? I would so apreiciate it if you put it on here!!

  • Do any of you know what kurt moll's lowest note is??

  • I don't know what his lowest note is, but I do have a recording of Rosenkavalier where he takes the optional low C (below bass staff) with seemingly room to spare.

  • I've got a low C with seemingly room to spare lol. (and im just some kid who hasn't been singing long) Could be an area of comfort, or he could have an incredibly low range. Maybe I'll never find out. If you could perhaps send me the recording somehow though.. or post it? that'd be great!

  • Not Kurt Moll

  • While it's undeniable that Kurt Moll is a God,

    I think this guy is still pretty damn good. Shame the song is in english really.

  • True....but Moll was more of a profondo, and Sarastro is a better fit for a profondo. Pape is a cantate, and will be more at home in higher lying bass roles(Verdi). Regardless, Pape's is a tremendously well produced and tastefully used voice. I would love to hear him as Zaccaria, if he can manage it.

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