There is nothing on bible referring to Jesus as the sun. You are all misunderstanding sun with son or are you believing in something outside of what bible says about it? Because Christians only care for what bible says, no matter those mithra comparisons because nothing on bible talks about Jesus birth day and everything He does was predicted by the Old Testament. Ignorance and lack of factual history is what I call to all this assumptions.
@Fantasticlist LOL, you obviously didn't watch this video or read the links in the info box or you would learn that the bible certainly does indeed refer to Jesus as the sun and so did the early Christians themselves. So, who's really the ignorant one here?
@Hercules2345 I watched two times. Thats a big biblical ignorance and so a lie and an attempt to change what is written. There is nothing written about Jesus as sun but as the light of the world, only. Sun is related to pagan and religious cults to affront God, created by satan. All sun worshipping is against God as you can see by a bit of study. Religion created the image of Jesus related with sun not based on Bible but on the previous pagan religions. Religion is wrong too.
@Fantasticlist Wow, you have no clue what you're talking about. You should've read the links:
"Jesus and the sun is first evidenced in the OT book of Malachi (4:2), which immediately precedes the New Testament and in which the author refers to the "Sun of Righteousness" who will "arise with healing in his wings." This scripture, which is in the last chapter before the Gospel of Matthew, sounds much like the winged solar disc of Babylon and Egypt."
@Hercules2345 Youre still ignorant about who is ruling the world.
John 8:12 Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.
Your example is not about the sun worshipping or Jesus as being the sun, but by being the sun of righteousness. He is the source of light that shines through us. Pagan religion made direct cult to the sun. Malachi refers of how Jesus will come and not what He is.
@Fantasticlist Your Christian prejudism apparently gives you a blind eye. You just provided another example of Jesus himself admitting to being the sun in John. It's allegory, Jesus himself just told you that he was the sun.
@Hercules2345 Prejudice? Jesus admitting what? You have not a clue what youre talking about. Im the light of the world is different from Im the sun. Youre still giving your first steps by referring Zeitgeist, thats totally debunked and based on lies. It compares Jesus with Horus when many of the things of Jesus there referred are not even biblical, as the birth date or the 3 wise men. The sun is just another attached by religion and not according to the biblical truth.
@Hercules2345 The light of the world is the light of the sun, so Jesus claiming to be the light of the world is like claiming to be the sun. SERIOUSLY?
As you obviously are far from it, according to the whole biblical study, darkness is related to the person that has no God - the person is in the darkness. When you accept Jesus in your life, you turn to light because he is the light of the world.
Zeitgeist has many errors, its debunked. carm(.)org/is-the-zeitgeist-movie-true
@Hercules2345 What a loser. A debunked website? -.- If you were intelligent enough you would search and see how zeitgeist is based on false religious assumptions, not on bible. If you want to learn apologetics, carm is an excellent website to. Cheers and be impartial always.
LOL you & your websites should try it sometime. I just went through those websites and their claims have been debunked. Being impartial means actually reading those links you're biased against and prove you wrong such as those I already gave you, which you obviously have never read.
@Hercules2345 I sent because after my impartiality, they own the truth. I wouldnt send you evotard sources even if I studied and still study evolution on university.
Their claims have debunked? Thats the most ridiculous statement ever; they have biblical studies based on bible and you defend zeitgeist based on religion! Wake up. You were saved? Thats funny. If you got tired was just because you were living religion and not your daily spiritual experience with God - what is needed.
@Fantasticlist Christianity does not 'own the truth." You are only here to shore up your faith at all costs, same as those Xian websites. They are not honest.
You don't know me or my 30 years experience working on these issues so, don't even try to tell me I wasn't this or that enough, that's utter BS. The fact remains there's no valid evidence for Jesus. If there were any valid evidence FAITH wouldn't be the main requirement.
@Hercules2345 So wrong. Faith and the Christianity are not those who make Christians be sure of Jesus. But this shows immediately how your faith and your relationship with God didn't work. Im not attacking you, but since I already had my faith problems I understand what yours. I was a biology student who accepted evolution, so I know what Im saying.
The truth is only showed by daily experience with God and faith is simply the assurance of what we know as truth but we cant see.
@Fantasticlist No, you absolutely do *NOT* understand & don't even try to pretend you do from a post on youtube. How could you be so arrogant?
The problem is that Christianity cannot substantiate its claims with CREDIBLE evidence.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
@Hercules2345 The problem is in atheism by not accepting Christians as having truth and evidence of God. Do you really think there are 2billion crazy people in the world right? A big mistake of atheism is to beg for a natural evidence of God - who is supernatural. With that, they can continue without evidence, deny the one that exists and keep trying to debunk those who are sure because of their personal experiences. Arrogance is you stating you know my personal life experience
@Fantasticlist Hogwash, that's the definition of delusional. What you're doing is a cop-out for the fact that there's no valid evidence for Jesus or god, which is why atheism even exists.
Uh? no, you are the one claiming to know my personal life, remember? Geeesh!
@Hercules2345 You called me arrogant and now deluded and Im claiming to know you? LOL
There is valid evidence for Jesus in many sources, eg, the historian Josephus. Try to look for outside the atheist website and the unfounded zeitigeist.
@Fantasticlist No, the idea you think you know my experience with god or Jesus via a single youtube post IS ARROGANT! Understand the difference?
Trying to convince peeps that they shouldn't expect evidence for god or Jesus but beleive anyway is the very definition of DELUSIONAL: "a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason." We could say the same about any god. Why don't you believe in Thor? Try looking outside Xian apologetics!
@Hercules2345 That would be arrogant if you had said "It didn't work for me, it may be truth but I didn't find anything any evidence for God as Christian" I would accept. But you said you UNDERSTOOD how God is not real. And if I know HE IS, then what more can I say than that you had a bad experience?
@Fantasticlist Not a single one of those '42 authors' ever even met Jesus -
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=19&t=3063
"Apart from the New Testament writings and later writings dependent upon these, our sources of information about the life and teaching of Jesus are scanty and problematic"
F.F. Bruce, a founder of the modern evangelical movement
@Hercules2345 What was the part of factual text authors that you didnt get? Now you will debunk the existence of Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar because of the time they lived? THERE IS references in texts of that time as the video showed. If that is not pleasant for you, bad luck. You have not a clue, try to see the video again and the references. We don't need to meet Plato to know he was real.
@Fantasticlist You have sooo ignorant, you have much to learn. Plato nor the rest didn't claim to be the son of god or perform miracles, rise from the dead etc. Big difference. There exists no CREDIBLE evidence for Jesus, PERIOD.
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=22286#p22286
@Hercules2345 Oh, so the problem of Jesus is the fact of be divine. Many atheists saw how he was real and just dont believe in their divine acts.
You have a big lack of Jewish history, culture, politics and religion. If you knew about that, you'd see how Jesus fits in all that as a real, expected and evident person.
@Fantasticlist "The only definite account of his life and teachings is contained in the 4 Gospels. All other historical records of the time are silent about him. Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius have been generally regarded as not genuine and as Christian interpolations; in Jewish writings there is no report about Jesus that has historical value. Some scholars have even gone so far as to hold that the entire Jesus story is a myth"
@Hercules2345 And if Bubbugahasi was a historian of that time referring to Jesus, that source of yours would say it was not real because he was Christian inventing the story too. They are Jewish writings... And there are 9 secular, not 3. There are much more evidence than those 3 and calling those 3 of Christians is not enough to factually say they invented everything. However, texts exist.
tektonics. org/jesusexist
And see the video again, there are much more than those three.
@Fantasticlist LOL, I guess you failed to notice that that was a quote from the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. There are more than 3 secular however, *NONE* ever met Jesus *NONE* were eye-witnesses. So, the point and fact stands. Even Christian biblical scholars admit there's no credible evidence for Jesus.
tekton/JP Holding? Are you serious? That guy is a joke -
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=19&t=3506
@Hercules2345 You call scholars a joke and send me forums? -.-
It is still a Jewish Encyclopedia, they have nothing to win by defend Jesus existence. (those who are not Christians) And if you do search you will encyclopedias talking about Jesus as real history.
There was eye-witnesses, John the apostle and others related to apostles too. But as they are IN the bible, you must deny them as truth. Go tell historians you deny them because they didnt meet their objects of study ;)
@Fantasticlist Wow, you are pathetic. You cry over links that include quotes from NT scholars who are also Xians that prove you wrong then, you brag about encyclopedias? You are another home-schooled psycho with a room temperature IQ. There exists no credible evidence of any eye-witnesses of Jesus and there's no valid evidence for a historical Jesus.
@Hercules2345 YOU are pathetic. There is eye-witnesses, all apostles who are also historical people. You have plenty sources, why don't you check for yourself? At the same time, the impact of Jesus in the world is enough to see how real Jesus had to be. Then you have the full cultural, demographic, historical, political, etc, context (which you ignore) that support historical Jesus. You need start to read good books, those forums are made by low IQ kids.
@Fantasticlist I DID check while I was a saved, baptized xian for many years. There's no valid evidence for the apostles either. Half of Paul's epistles are not from Paul & the other half we're not sure who wrote them. I've been doing this for 30 years. You have much to learn.
If you read the links I gave, you'll notice those Christian websites have already been debunked.
BTW, I was a saved, baptized Christian for many years. I simply got tired of being lied to. When you get tired of being lied to then, maybe, you'll understand.
Here are several quotes from Xian NT scholars:
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=11975#p11975
"...This scripture in Malachi is perceived as a reference to the coming messiah, Jesus Christ. In this regard, this clearly solar appellation "Sun of Righteousness" is repeated many times by early Church fathers as being applicable to Christ."
I am a christian and I don't pray facing east.I don't celebrate Easter or Christmas in Dec. cause Jesus could't be born in Dec. while shephards don't keep guard on the flock in winter in Jerusalem.If Jesus is 'sun god' why prophet Eliah killed sun worshipers (god Baal) in Old Testament story.Why YHWH prohibited star and moon cult in Bible?True christianity is something different that old religions with it's similar pattern.Jesus is stumbling block-not an instant-clutural all matching glue.
@invict2007 acharya s back peddles on her "zeitgeist claims and sources"
search for: The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED
bible condemns sun worship, so it is not "astro-theology"
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
John Gwyn Griffiths " Pyramid Text line 632"
isis "placed opon thy phallus and thy seed comes forth into her"
When Christ asks you at judgment, "Who do you say I am?" Make sure you give the pre-Novus Ordo Council answer, "God." If you give God the common Masonic answer out of the Gnostic bible, "you are the son of a burning bush fire (the lord)", you will quickly learn what this world was about and you will have an eternity to pay for it. As the Traditional Catholic Church breathes its last breath, the New Order replaces it. Will you have the knowledge to stand?
@anchelicht this book proves only that there are two models of so called christianity.One mixed with legends and myths dated back to Egipt and Sumer culture rich in astrological paralles and second-purified from any of such influence and one true way of Holy Spirit where Jesus can not be Sun as Bible says that'THE Word',' greek Logos' or hebrew 'alef - tav' was at the beginning and nothing was made without WORD.Jesus doesnt derivate from creation and physical beings He is hidden in the Creator.
@anchelicht my evidence of Jesus Christ: I was addicted to drugs and at the edge of breakdown and I prayed to God with this words: 'I am giving you all my life....' and then He (Jesus) came with love that is indescribable and renew me and cleansed my sin'. He is not a slim, smooth guy like catholic church presents Him on canvas.He is a mighty warrior fighting for his people.INDESCRIBABLE - so not matching any realm of words and material evidence.../don't try to use hammer to unscrew srew/
Jesus isnt just sun he is the light of the world, call whatever you want to him, mithras,sun,light or whatever you want, he is the real saviour thats why roman legions believed to him after mithras, its not just for romans even the birthplace of mithras armenia, even armenians adopted christianity after his divine holy power. jesus isnt the sun god its the people and cultures who mixed religion with their old way of worshiping, but still jesus is the sun and he is the real light of the world.
@Metalicalypse He is not the sun and not the Son either. He is not even a savior let alone of divine holy power. Such things do not exist, its only in the fantasy of religious people because they are concepts made by people and God has nothing emphasis on NOTHING to do with it !
The True God commanded not to worship the sun god trinity: Deuteronomy 4:19 Deuteronomy 17:3. The Egyptians named the days of the week after deities, just like the Romans and because the children of the True God worshiped on one of those days, does not mean they were worshiping one of those gods. The Jews never gave offering to the moon; unless they were apostate Jeremiah 15:9 2 Kings 23:5 and then they were punished for doing so.
The birth of Yeshua was celebrated on April 17th by true Christians, they kept the Sabbath, they wouldn’t dream of wearing the mark of the beast, or of taking that mark in their foreheads as all of the sun god assemblies did. The original Christians prayed and baptized in the name of the Messiah Yeshua and baptized by immersion. The original Christians did not cross themselves or pray in the titles Father Son and Holy Ghost like the Sun God worshipers did in Greece and the Roman Empire.
Moses and the children of Israel kept the Sabbath on Saturday, keep the 7 annual Sabbaths and the feasts, followed hundreds of different commandments that liberated the 12 tribes from the corrupt sun god greedy, perverted ways. Pharaoh and the sun god followers worshiped on the sun god day, followed Lent, Easter and Christmas - just like the Catholic Church did under its Pope and High Priest Alexander the great and as Babylon did.
"The Christian religion is a parody of the worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Jesus in place of the sun god Horus, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun". Thomas Faine 1737-1809
There are hundreds of religious figures that claim born on 25th december (which is the winter solstics) died and resurected etc etc etc... they all descend from worship of the sun and astroligal symbolism of pagans. 3 kings are a star constellation, I'm glad the internet can share this.
@Elibobbob Can you give a few examples of the so called hundreds and btw Horus was supposedly born during the month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), and not on December 25 and has no other simularities to Jesus?
@fusionhunter why do you think this? Early occult art is shown with jesus head on the sun, this is because he is the sun personified into the son (the sun god made into a person), early christians knew this, which is why jesus always has his head with the sun. Xmas is the winter salstics when the sun seems to die (at it's lowest point) then re-appears as resurected. Xmas and easter are pagan traditions and Christiany is a parody of the worship of the sun. It is astroloical mythology. Do search.
@fusionhunter Horus has many similarities to jesus, born to a virgin, walked on water, performed miricles etc etc etc.. In Phyrgia (ancient greece 1200 BCE) Horus became Attis In India (900 BC) Horus became Khrishna In Greece (500 BC) Horus became Dionysus In Persia (1200 BC) Horus became Mythra More: 1. Chrishna of Hindostan. 2. Budha Sakia of India. 3. Salivahana of Bermuda. 4. Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt. 5. Odin of the Scandinavians. 6. Crite of Chaldea. cont...
@Elibobbob All your horus points are FALSE.Same with Attis, Khrishna and all the others HAVE BEEN PROVEN FALSE. THAT IS A FACT. Yes I'd love more of your false information that was told to you. Do some proper research. The whole resurrection concept with the sun has been DEBUNKED TOO. DO SOME RESEARCH YOURSELF. Also can you please explain why the bible has prophecies that have come true to accurate detail. Congratulations for educating yourself with false information about diifferent religions
@fusionhunter faith is blind, fact. They don't teach common sense in education either, sadly. But I will just add "We associate being proved wrong with failure, yet being proved wrong should be celebrated as this is evevating someone to a new level of understanding"........ ultimately people will believe what they want to regarless of the evidence, fact. Read the story of the Cardiff Giant.
@Elibobbob Common sense? You still havn't explained why the simularities between Jesus and others like Horus are completely wrong. Even the Attis facts are a joke and a laugh because they were made up facts. Can you explain why the bible has prophecies that has come true to good detail and please PROVIDE REAL FACTS.
Stop throwing false lies at me and get some proper facts instead of facts that have been already proven false.
@fusionhunter Similarities between Jesus and horus and other dieties are not wrong. Christian propagandist claim they're wrong, but they are not, you'll only find out by doing your own research (ouside of the christian sites) and coming to your own conclusions (if you have common sense that is). The idea of prophecies is a ridiculous one and why I didn't respond. In psychology it is called 'subjective validation'..
@Elibobbob Prophecies are ridiculous? How exaclty? They have happened and come true. That is a fact and something you shouldn't ignore or call ridiculous. I love how you say christians have claimed their wrong. That has nothing to do with it. I don't care who it was that PROVED THEY WERE WRONG. Give me the Attis and Horus facts so I can prove them wrong for you. Also can you please get it from a real source.
@fusionhunter I told you prophecies are 'subjective validation'.. you do not listen. I told you the 3 kings are a star constellation and not people and that christianity is a parody of pagan worship of the sun. I do not take people's word for things, I research, experiment, observe then come to my own common sense conclusion, based upon satisfying the forementioned. 'Nullus en vebra' Royal Society. You say you want to prove me wrong, which just proves you are not open minded or able to listen.
@fusionhunter Bible prophecies are ridiculous for sure - the NT writers simply read the OT and wrote the NT to make it fit by using the OT as a blueprint. None can be confirmed to have come true. Same as the over 20 passages throughout the bible claiming Jesus was famed far & wide - not a single claim has ever been verified with credible evidence. nothing has changed in 2,000 years - how much more time to you need to realize that Jesus is nothing but a mythical character?
@fusionhunter "The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a, cf. 809c)" ...
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares:
"I am the great virgin"
"The Egyptian goddess who was equally ‘the Great Virgin’ (hwnt) and ‘Mother of the God’ was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]." - Dr. Witt, an Egyptologist
7. Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia. 8. Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phenicia. 9. Indra of Thibet. 10. Bali of Afghanistan. 11. Jao of Nepaul. 12. Wittoba of the Bilingonese. 13. Thammuz of Syria. 14. Atys of Phrygia. 15. Xaniolxis of Thrace. 16. Zoar of the Bonzes. 17. Adad of Assyria. 18. Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam. 19. Alcides of Thebes. 20. Mikado of the Sintoos. 21. Beddru of Japan. 22. Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids. Would you like some more?
This is a superb example of taking metaphor way too far. Light based imagery is used in most major religions, due to the power of sight as a sense, in an effort to describe the indescribable. Jesus as a Sun God? You might as well argue Jesus is thinking and logic based on John's gospel and the books of wisdom and a similar array of sources used here. Or that he's the emotion love. You'd have similar success. All it requires is to ignore contrary evidence/passages/practises - e.g. communion.
I am not really getting your point here...Are you saying that you are seeing this from a religious standpoint? If so, then I understand the hypocrocy and confusion..Thats religion. But from a spirituality standpoint, just let me say, ok. Well Done! Sun (Son) is the Source of Life...
The zeitgeist makes a play on the homonyms sun and son. The movie claims Jesus the son risen from the dead, is actually the sun that rises in the morning. The problem with this is that sun and son are not homonyms in the languages the bible was actually written in(Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic) For instance, Son in Hebrew is בן (ben-) and Sun in Hebrew is הַשָּֽׁמֶש (ha·sha·mesh.)
@legogamer8 This so amuses me when Jesus is not his name that is why you come with all this garbage! Try his real name in Hebrew and then see what you get? Yesu that is right now look it up! That is his real name. He is the SON of YHWH his only SON. If you were a Roman and worshiped the SUN then call him Jesus.
@RubysTableTalk Well sir I am sorry that you are angry, but that does not refute what I said. Jesus, or Yeshua is not the sun God. He is God. Either way there is still power in the name of Jesus. Demons still flee when I use the name of Jesus, the Sick are still healed in the name of Jesus. There is power in the name of Jesus. Call him the Hebrew Yeshua if you like, that is of course fine as well.
@legogamer8 No it is Yesu that is his and I know that when you use that name it works but his name is really Yesu. And I am known he is the Son of God. This video made me sick! I see we both know that he is not the sun but the SON. Blessings to you.
@RubysTableTalk Yes this video ridiculous. But as the bible says "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13) Be encouraged.
@legogamer8, It would be wise for you to read through these couple links & make the necessary adjustments. Acharya addressed the son/sun issue long ago in her FAQ's at her forum:
Son/Sun
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=4835#p4835
The Name Jesus
iesous. org
The bible is a bigoted text that calls everyone evil or fools who asks for evidence to substantiate theistic claims because the Abrahamic religious texts are full of discrimination while THEY are the "seducers."
@legogamer8 people in all religions, and some atheists, experience similar miracles on a regular basis. it's all about intention and faith. unfortunately, to get that benefit, you also have to believe absurd things like gay people being "evil" (as if their lives aren't hard enough!), wives having to "submit" to their husbands, and let's not forget all the people God basically blows up and murders in the old testament and all the torture he commands, and ultimately causes in Hell.
Yes many people experience miracles throughout various aspects of life. That does not change the fact that there is one true God. And God doesn't simply call gay people evil but all people evil. Don't highlight what the bible says just about gays but all mankind. The bible says "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous,
@legogamer8 It absolutely changes the basis for claiming there is one true God. Without the miracles, there is no basis for superiority or truth. You are being logically inconsistent. Another example is your bait and switch about homosexuality. The bible does not condemn heterosexuality (at least in marriage), but it does condemn homosexuality; however, homosexuals are attracted only to the same sex. They cannot fulfill their desires any other way and yet THEIR impulse is singled out as evil.
@Sveccha93 nor drunkards, nor revilers nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. (1 Corinthians 6:10) The bible continues to say "There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10) So yes the bible calls both homosexuals and heterosexuals unrighteous. Yes the bible says a man that lusts after a woman unrighteous and a man that lusts after a man unrighteous. The bible calls a woman that lusts after a man unrighteous and a woman that lusts after a woman unrighteous.
@Sveccha93 The unrighteous do not inherit the kingdom of God, but Hell. Why does God send people to hell? He doesn't, people choose to go to hell. Hell was “prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41) Hell was not even created for mankind but because of sin mankind became the sons of the devil. The devil is the father of sin. Because mankind follows the devil both man and the devil have the same fate. Yet there is hope.
@legogamer8 My reading of the bible is as an unbeliever, you walk up to Christ at the end of the world and he tells you to go to Hell. So God just made it for Satan but, whoops, He didn't see the whole sin thing coming! Gimme a break! It's a cruel and stupid thing to believe is happening to your neighbors because they won't accept your bizarre and bloody magical stories.
@Sveccha93 The cross of Christ. Jesus Christ died and gave his life on the cross so that mankind could be forgiven for all sin and become the sons of God once again. All that one must do is believe on the Lord Jesus and they are now a son of God saved from the sentence of death and hell which all deserve because all have sinned. People choose to go to hell by rejected God and his son Jesus. If you reject God then reject the good things he has for you.
@Sveccha93 Yes the bible says that wives should submit to their husbands but you neglected the rest of the scripture. “ Husbands love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it” (Ephesians 5:25) This shows that Biblical submission is for two Christian believers joined in marriage.
@legogamer8 Doesn't change the fact that the Bible guarantees your wife must obey you and shouldn't speak out loud in church. Just because there is a spiritual contract does not change the fact that women as adults with fully functional minds should not have to obey anyone all the time, whatever that person might do for them.
@Sveccha93 When a husband loves his wife as Christ loved the church than it is very easy for a biblical submission to be effective in marriage. Christ loved the church to the point that he gave his life for it. That means Christ sacrificed for the church. If the bible is saying that Husbands should be like Christ in marriage then the bible is saying Husbands should be willing to sacrifice all they have for their wives.
@legogamer8 Again again, I say: just because their are two sides to the contract doesn't make those sides equal, logical or fair. The husband has to sacrifice himself (provide and physically protect, etc.) and then, in turn, the wife has to obey him. I think a lot of women would gladly trade spots.
The more I read on this subject, the sicker I get thinking of how long I've been lied to. I'm sure all the liars had good intentions, but it makes me sick
Zeitgeist the movie has been critisized as having very faulty evidence by plenty of critics and scholars, come one people grow up, its like the da vinci code, just because you dont believe in God and feel lonely and rejected you blame God and religion for this? God will help you and your loneliness when you give in... The Catholic religion has produced many saints and organizations which help the world, weigh that against the sins of the catholics next time... or show me a secular comparison
to think silly christians worship the sun in disguise. to say your not going to worship a gigantic ball of sun makes u sound just stupid. is it somethin you need to pray too?? no but its what keeps u alive buddy
@chrisfraire21 Its not silly. I can see why they would change it. I think doing so saved alot of people from not believing which would be bad for mankind. While it was still wrong the intensions behind it were somwhat good. I dont like that the bibble was changed, but realizing this I now have to reimagine what I thought I knew. and once again tr to comprehend.
Well, for Xians, that's precisely what they've been worshipping. And many other religions too along with the moon, planets, stars, constellations etc.
But even derogatorily calling it a "gigantic ball of gas" is embarrassing even for atheists - how long do you think you or the earth as we know it would last w/o the sun? Not long at all.
No sun = no atmosphere to breathe & no photosynthesis means no plants etc for food. No warmth, no light. No sun = nearly all life on earth dies.
Im an atheist. This video is proof that jesus (along with the dozen other gods of that story) was the ''son'' and people back then didn't know what the sun was, what the stars were, what the moon was etc.
Obviously they didn't have the depth of scientific knowledge we do today but, their mythologies do demonstrate categorical that yes, they did understand that the sun generated most all life on earth.
That's why winter solstice & spring equinox (Christmas & Easter) celebrations were a big deal to pre-xian ancients. They knew the effects of the sun. They also knew it was the suns light that was being reflected in the moon. We use the same constellation patterns in astronomy today too.
bible condemns sun worship, so it is not "astro-theology"
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
John Gwyn Griffiths " Pyramid Text line 632"
isis "placed opon thy phallus and thy seed comes forth into her"
And what's wrong with this statement??Why not to be a sunlight, enlightening people from darkness of ignorance???The mistake the people eventually did was to start worshiping him,just as many ignorant did worship the sun.That's all the deal.
D1ZaST4R: when ever you have to use the word "must" in your assertions, it simply means your suppositions are baseless in fact. So in order to comprehend the world you're living in, you make up beliefs in order to simplify it for yourself.
D1ZaST4R, this is all about human psychology. We live in a funny world, where people believe in ghosts, ufo, gods etc etc.
Actual medicine is still using placebo effect you know ... What this movie is showing is called astrothelology. Astrotheology explains religions as an metaphoric way to abord cosmos cycle. For info, until 1000 AC, religious where into mathematics, philosophy, psychology, astronomy and more ... Been religious was meaning "Educated to thoses sciences"
@boobaliz i hear you bro, but lumping different phenomena in their with man-made religions makes you appear a bit ignorant. i am a rational, adult person and i have seen a ghost. i don't necessarily know what it was, and i don't necessarily believe it's a person's spirit, but i swear on my children, i sat looking, in broad daylight, at a black thing with no face that then ran away. you don't know me and it is easy for you to blow this off or forget it, but it happened, and i know you're wrong.
@boobaliz also, why can't there be UFOs? I don't claim that any current pictures or videos are real extraterrestrial machines, but it's just as weird that we exist on a planet...why not others who are farther along with their technology?
it is not a person. It is a divine force. Whose energy indeed does feel like true love. Thus why it used it's power to create us and everything around us. I'm not saying I know anythinga bout what it is exactly. But the first law of thermo-dynamics, and some of Steven Hawkings claims prove that there was and still is a seperate source of energy outside of the universe. Perhaps the answer lays in self-spirituality? This is why I am so interested in Buddhism, and new-day religions, such as ECKanar
why does it seem so true? You are correct its possible theyre might be many many things in the universe we have not yet discovered and do not understand but what has you believing we need a "God". I believe we are all one conciousness experiencing every complex possibility through a self created filter called time
I used an online translator site to see what sun and son were in Greek and Hebrew. The words are very close indeed in Greek. In Hebrew, the words appear nothing alike.
So ask ChelevSaRa what he used for that video. He's not making it up. You really think just any online translator has all the answers. Do you know anything about how etymology works?
sun of god and son of god are only similar in the english language but very different in the other earlier languages that the bible was written in. So anyone who states that claim is a retard. Shrowd of Turin proves his existance bty because no one could have done it and shows exaclty as scripture says! beat that dis-believers.
Pppffffffttttt - ha, ha , ha ... wow, what a knee-slapper! LMAO!
Goes to show the damage caused by keith TRASH and his cult followers known as TRASH HEADS. Even decent Christians are embarrassed by keith's nonsense.
We know Paul wrote his epistles around 55 AD and he describes aquiring the gospels around 35 AD. Virtually no modern historian would question this. He believes he was a witness at the write time and place. There is overwhelming evidence of Jesus existance. What evidence is there of any historian of his time claiming his nonexistance?
Strange that Paul chose not to quote anything from the gospels he "acquired around 35AD". No teachings, no miracles, not even anything Jesus said. Very strange...
@spaceagebachelor are you insane?? your video was not even logical to begin with, if you based your life upon the same "logic" you base your arguments here you would not be alive today...and Paul refers to the gospels as scripture in the epistles...can't you see you are fulfilling Bible prophecy by making this stupid video? ohh what's the point to even write this to you?? you are a puppet for the zeitgeist/illuminati-support team.. simple as that
As soon as one starts making claims like "no modern historian would question this... overwhelming evidence of Jesus existance[sic]" it's immediately suspect.
Half of Paul's epistles are known to be forgeries. He knew hardly anything about the story of Jesus as we know it in the Gospels today. His Jesus lived in heaven not earth. Paul only met Jesus via his "vision"/ epileptic fit.
The lack of evidence from any contemporary means Jesus probably never existed.
First of all, I stated "Virtually no modern historian would question this". If you know the numbers enlighten us. I am referring to the work of Dr. Habermas of which to my knowledge no one disputes. When I state the gospels I am referring to the message. 1 Corinthians and Galatians are the books I am referring to.
You claim, "The lack of evidence from any contemporary means Jesus probably never existed. "
Dr. Habermas used 17 sources in his thesis of 350 pages.
You demonstrate absolutely no understanding of how things work - you make a claim, it's your job to provide the evidence. It's called 'burden of proof' look it up.
If you can't substantiate your claims with VALID evidence, reasonable people will dismiss your claims as unfounded nonsense - rightfully so.
The evidence has been demonstrated. You have provided no sources and no evidence. I on the other hand have. Most NT scholars agree that Paul wrote those books unless you can prove otherwise this discussion is over.
Well congratulations you stepped up to the plate but foul ball. If you are going to post something like that at least explain what letters are being described. You are the one who doesn't seem to understand. When I referr to NT scholars I am not referring to apologists. You need to take a closer look at what I have been posting and not make erroneous claims. Again the epistles I am referring to are 1 Corinthians and Galatians.
The research has been done. Virtually everyone concedes that Paul wrote 1 Corinthians and Galatians. You claim Jesus probably never existed because historians living in the area at that time fail to mention him. I claim that at least some of those historians must have known of the Christians and if so why would they not refute anything they were claiming let alone his very existance.
"I claim that at least some of those historians must have known of the Christians"
You can't just make unfounded claims - back them up with valid evidence. If Jesus never existed then there's no reason for those contemporaries who lived at that time to mention him. Which is precisely what we have.
See if you can find the first VALID mention of a historical Jesus.
"Jesus sun God" video explains more. Some people don't believe in Jesus as God because of history and its absence of evidence, but some other don't believe because of this present time absence of evidence...
@christiantaoist I have often wondered why is there no prophecy in the bible or the words of christ to fortell about the arrival of paul or his significance? I would think that someone with a job as important as pauls would have been prophecied about.
@guidav123 haha, yes, his job was important: to make an overwhelming new cult as harmless as possible to the big-wigs in the government...and boy did it work!
@christiantaoist Your statement that "virtually no modern historian would question this" referencing Paul's writing of the epistles is wrong. There is no evidence that Paul ever existed. You then ask "what evidence is there of any historian of his time claiming his nonexistence?" That is a meaningless question. The onus of proof is on the person making the claim. Also it's an absurd question. You may as well be asking "what proof does any historian have of the nonexistence of thor?"
its extremely difficult to get through to people who really dont want to know the truth you all just watch these videos and they basically say there is no god or jesus therefore no sin. that allows you to do as you wish with no consequence except that of this world. why would eleven disciples of jesus be killed and tortured to death if they didnt truely know that jesus was the true savior. he was prophecised in the old testament and fullfilled every prophesy god will judge you what will you say
Quezelcotal was a Mayan Sun God of Death and Resurrection, who was worshipped across the world from Europe.
He was born from a virgin, carried a cross, shed his blood for mankind, and was resurrection, and ascended into heaven to be a star. He will return at the end of the world, when civilization shall end, Quezelcotal shall have a second coming.
@dorkface5000 In the history of religion christianity is realy new.There are much older beliefs what makes you so sure your right its one of just many religions.If you dont learn the history of the oldest belifes youl stay blind in order to be awaken you must learn the anchient history and how the storys were passed on .
@dorkface5000 all the christians i ever knew did as they wished as well. look how those big preachers fall hard! people make mistakes because they're stupid. they don't need a book to tell them not to punch their kids or put cigarettes out on their wife, because they have an "imagination" which allows them to identify with others. your god is a very mean person...if people don't accept all those stupid stories with no proof, he tortures them forever, because he loves them so much. why make us?
@dorkface5000 they are mythS! u dont know for a fact anything that the bible says and anyway as far as the prophecies being done the bible can be used as a blue print for those in power to use it as an excuse for there greedy self
there is more proof that jesus walked upon the earth than ceaser yet there is noone refuting his excistance everyone says hes a fact well my brothers jesus was a man and died for the sins we all commit and will forgive you if you only ask. i pray you see before you meet god on your judgement day. i kow you will attack me for what i say but god has left behind uncountable truth if you would only search it with an open mind. these false prophetes allow you live in sin.
According to your fable, your god created a hell for all of the billions of people who do not worship him. Such a malicious being is not worthy of worship.
nowhere in the bible is jesus refered to as the sun and if you REALLY did your research which you obviosly havent done you would realize that the people whom you got your info from are terribly wrong. i also questioned the bible for many years yet upon VALID reasearch done from an athiest point of view i was converted to chistianity and i dont like to call myself a christian but a disciple of jesus christ, god doesnt want us to pratice religon and sacrifice he want us to love and tellhisword.
You are wrong about more evidence for Cesar. Your fairy tales say Jesus cured the sick, brought the dead back to life and then for an encore rose from the dead, yet there is still no evidence he ever existed. The stories all conflict with each other and are written by medieval minds. If you converted it had nothing to do with the evidence.
really? you know in certain parts of the world there are people who have never heard of jesus,..why didnt this god get his point across to everyone? asians pray to buddah,..some people pray to rats.
why dont you do the resaerch on these doubts that you have not only from a worldly view and see what the bible says about it. by the way explain to me where man came from and the rest of the universe how can all the amzing things in this world come from a explosion in the universe? where did the universe come from? someone created it our excitance was not an accident. i dont have all the answers i could find them but before you write of jesus try to look at the facts not just someones interpreta
"The sun-son play on words as applicable to Christ has been deemed so "common" as to represent a "devotional pun." Therefore, shallow criticisms of the statement that the son of God is the sun of God represent illogical straw men reflective of ignorance of this fact and should be dismissed as such. In reality, the repeated punning across several centuries proves once more that Christ was widely associated with the sun long before the 19th century."
Jesus is the SUN...He comes on a Ccloud and leaves on a cloud. Check him out with his crown of thorns.Christians just can't swallow the real TRUTH.. It's all about ASTROTHEOLOGY and the ZODIAC... Imagine all the people
Those are some BIG WORDS there... Are you saying that your a Christian and those devotional puns are just shallow criticism. You'd better take a look into Roman Religious History as well as Astrotheology. Jesus is the SUN. That's for sure! Only History of jesus ever known was in those Gospels. NO HISTORIAN in his lifetime ever refered to him as a real person.
There is nothing on bible referring to Jesus as the sun. You are all misunderstanding sun with son or are you believing in something outside of what bible says about it? Because Christians only care for what bible says, no matter those mithra comparisons because nothing on bible talks about Jesus birth day and everything He does was predicted by the Old Testament. Ignorance and lack of factual history is what I call to all this assumptions.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist LOL, you obviously didn't watch this video or read the links in the info box or you would learn that the bible certainly does indeed refer to Jesus as the sun and so did the early Christians themselves. So, who's really the ignorant one here?
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 I watched two times. Thats a big biblical ignorance and so a lie and an attempt to change what is written. There is nothing written about Jesus as sun but as the light of the world, only. Sun is related to pagan and religious cults to affront God, created by satan. All sun worshipping is against God as you can see by a bit of study. Religion created the image of Jesus related with sun not based on Bible but on the previous pagan religions. Religion is wrong too.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist Wow, you have no clue what you're talking about. You should've read the links:
"Jesus and the sun is first evidenced in the OT book of Malachi (4:2), which immediately precedes the New Testament and in which the author refers to the "Sun of Righteousness" who will "arise with healing in his wings." This scripture, which is in the last chapter before the Gospel of Matthew, sounds much like the winged solar disc of Babylon and Egypt."
The bible proves you wrong.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 Youre still ignorant about who is ruling the world.
John 8:12 Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.
Your example is not about the sun worshipping or Jesus as being the sun, but by being the sun of righteousness. He is the source of light that shines through us. Pagan religion made direct cult to the sun. Malachi refers of how Jesus will come and not what He is.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist Your Christian prejudism apparently gives you a blind eye. You just provided another example of Jesus himself admitting to being the sun in John. It's allegory, Jesus himself just told you that he was the sun.
Ever watch Zeitgeist part 1? watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 Prejudice? Jesus admitting what? You have not a clue what youre talking about. Im the light of the world is different from Im the sun. Youre still giving your first steps by referring Zeitgeist, thats totally debunked and based on lies. It compares Jesus with Horus when many of the things of Jesus there referred are not even biblical, as the birth date or the 3 wise men. The sun is just another attached by religion and not according to the biblical truth.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist In case you didn't notice the sun *IS* the light of the world. Do you know what 'allegory' is? ZG1 has not been "debunked"
Sourcebook part 1
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 The light of the world is the light of the sun, so Jesus claiming to be the light of the world is like claiming to be the sun. SERIOUSLY?
As you obviously are far from it, according to the whole biblical study, darkness is related to the person that has no God - the person is in the darkness. When you accept Jesus in your life, you turn to light because he is the light of the world.
Zeitgeist has many errors, its debunked. carm(.)org/is-the-zeitgeist-movie-true
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 What a loser. A debunked website? -.- If you were intelligent enough you would search and see how zeitgeist is based on false religious assumptions, not on bible. If you want to learn apologetics, carm is an excellent website to. Cheers and be impartial always.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist "be impartial always"
LOL you & your websites should try it sometime. I just went through those websites and their claims have been debunked. Being impartial means actually reading those links you're biased against and prove you wrong such as those I already gave you, which you obviously have never read.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 I sent because after my impartiality, they own the truth. I wouldnt send you evotard sources even if I studied and still study evolution on university.
Their claims have debunked? Thats the most ridiculous statement ever; they have biblical studies based on bible and you defend zeitgeist based on religion! Wake up. You were saved? Thats funny. If you got tired was just because you were living religion and not your daily spiritual experience with God - what is needed.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist Christianity does not 'own the truth." You are only here to shore up your faith at all costs, same as those Xian websites. They are not honest.
You don't know me or my 30 years experience working on these issues so, don't even try to tell me I wasn't this or that enough, that's utter BS. The fact remains there's no valid evidence for Jesus. If there were any valid evidence FAITH wouldn't be the main requirement.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 So wrong. Faith and the Christianity are not those who make Christians be sure of Jesus. But this shows immediately how your faith and your relationship with God didn't work. Im not attacking you, but since I already had my faith problems I understand what yours. I was a biology student who accepted evolution, so I know what Im saying.
The truth is only showed by daily experience with God and faith is simply the assurance of what we know as truth but we cant see.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist No, you absolutely do *NOT* understand & don't even try to pretend you do from a post on youtube. How could you be so arrogant?
The problem is that Christianity cannot substantiate its claims with CREDIBLE evidence.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
- Historian Stephen Henry Roberts
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 The problem is in atheism by not accepting Christians as having truth and evidence of God. Do you really think there are 2billion crazy people in the world right? A big mistake of atheism is to beg for a natural evidence of God - who is supernatural. With that, they can continue without evidence, deny the one that exists and keep trying to debunk those who are sure because of their personal experiences. Arrogance is you stating you know my personal life experience
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist Hogwash, that's the definition of delusional. What you're doing is a cop-out for the fact that there's no valid evidence for Jesus or god, which is why atheism even exists.
Uh? no, you are the one claiming to know my personal life, remember? Geeesh!
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 You called me arrogant and now deluded and Im claiming to know you? LOL
There is valid evidence for Jesus in many sources, eg, the historian Josephus. Try to look for outside the atheist website and the unfounded zeitigeist.
OTOH you could tell me what is valid evidence.
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist No, the idea you think you know my experience with god or Jesus via a single youtube post IS ARROGANT! Understand the difference?
Trying to convince peeps that they shouldn't expect evidence for god or Jesus but beleive anyway is the very definition of DELUSIONAL: "a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason." We could say the same about any god. Why don't you believe in Thor? Try looking outside Xian apologetics!
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 That would be arrogant if you had said "It didn't work for me, it may be truth but I didn't find anything any evidence for God as Christian" I would accept. But you said you UNDERSTOOD how God is not real. And if I know HE IS, then what more can I say than that you had a bad experience?
You not accepting my certainty is other story.
Fantasticlist 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 How could I forget! Evidence for Jesus based on textual facts here
/watch?v=h9B5jsTvKZs
Fantasticlist 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist Not a single one of those '42 authors' ever even met Jesus -
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=19&t=3063
"Apart from the New Testament writings and later writings dependent upon these, our sources of information about the life and teaching of Jesus are scanty and problematic"
F.F. Bruce, a founder of the modern evangelical movement
- Who Was Jesus? 84
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 What was the part of factual text authors that you didnt get? Now you will debunk the existence of Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar because of the time they lived? THERE IS references in texts of that time as the video showed. If that is not pleasant for you, bad luck. You have not a clue, try to see the video again and the references. We don't need to meet Plato to know he was real.
Fantasticlist 1 week ago
@Fantasticlist You have sooo ignorant, you have much to learn. Plato nor the rest didn't claim to be the son of god or perform miracles, rise from the dead etc. Big difference. There exists no CREDIBLE evidence for Jesus, PERIOD.
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=22286#p22286
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 Oh, so the problem of Jesus is the fact of be divine. Many atheists saw how he was real and just dont believe in their divine acts.
You have a big lack of Jewish history, culture, politics and religion. If you knew about that, you'd see how Jesus fits in all that as a real, expected and evident person.
Fantasticlist 1 week ago
@Fantasticlist "The only definite account of his life and teachings is contained in the 4 Gospels. All other historical records of the time are silent about him. Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius have been generally regarded as not genuine and as Christian interpolations; in Jewish writings there is no report about Jesus that has historical value. Some scholars have even gone so far as to hold that the entire Jesus story is a myth"
Uni Jewish Enc
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 And if Bubbugahasi was a historian of that time referring to Jesus, that source of yours would say it was not real because he was Christian inventing the story too. They are Jewish writings... And there are 9 secular, not 3. There are much more evidence than those 3 and calling those 3 of Christians is not enough to factually say they invented everything. However, texts exist.
tektonics. org/jesusexist
And see the video again, there are much more than those three.
Fantasticlist 1 week ago
@Fantasticlist LOL, I guess you failed to notice that that was a quote from the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. There are more than 3 secular however, *NONE* ever met Jesus *NONE* were eye-witnesses. So, the point and fact stands. Even Christian biblical scholars admit there's no credible evidence for Jesus.
tekton/JP Holding? Are you serious? That guy is a joke -
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=19&t=3506
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 You call scholars a joke and send me forums? -.-
It is still a Jewish Encyclopedia, they have nothing to win by defend Jesus existence. (those who are not Christians) And if you do search you will encyclopedias talking about Jesus as real history.
There was eye-witnesses, John the apostle and others related to apostles too. But as they are IN the bible, you must deny them as truth. Go tell historians you deny them because they didnt meet their objects of study ;)
Fantasticlist 1 week ago
@Fantasticlist Wow, you are pathetic. You cry over links that include quotes from NT scholars who are also Xians that prove you wrong then, you brag about encyclopedias? You are another home-schooled psycho with a room temperature IQ. There exists no credible evidence of any eye-witnesses of Jesus and there's no valid evidence for a historical Jesus.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 YOU are pathetic. There is eye-witnesses, all apostles who are also historical people. You have plenty sources, why don't you check for yourself? At the same time, the impact of Jesus in the world is enough to see how real Jesus had to be. Then you have the full cultural, demographic, historical, political, etc, context (which you ignore) that support historical Jesus. You need start to read good books, those forums are made by low IQ kids.
Fantasticlist 1 week ago
@Fantasticlist I DID check while I was a saved, baptized xian for many years. There's no valid evidence for the apostles either. Half of Paul's epistles are not from Paul & the other half we're not sure who wrote them. I've been doing this for 30 years. You have much to learn.
truth-saves. com /jesus-christ-never-existed/
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Fantasticlist LOL, that's the ALLEGORY!!! Look it up!
If you read the links I gave, you'll notice those Christian websites have already been debunked.
BTW, I was a saved, baptized Christian for many years. I simply got tired of being lied to. When you get tired of being lied to then, maybe, you'll understand.
Here are several quotes from Xian NT scholars:
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=11975#p11975
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Fantasticlist CONT:
"...This scripture in Malachi is perceived as a reference to the coming messiah, Jesus Christ. In this regard, this clearly solar appellation "Sun of Righteousness" is repeated many times by early Church fathers as being applicable to Christ."
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
Good book, free for Kindle.
beatlesnumber9 1 month ago
Why do Jesus have the Egyption solar disc
Behind his head?
rasdennis 1 month ago
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I am a christian and I don't pray facing east.I don't celebrate Easter or Christmas in Dec. cause Jesus could't be born in Dec. while shephards don't keep guard on the flock in winter in Jerusalem.If Jesus is 'sun god' why prophet Eliah killed sun worshipers (god Baal) in Old Testament story.Why YHWH prohibited star and moon cult in Bible?True christianity is something different that old religions with it's similar pattern.Jesus is stumbling block-not an instant-clutural all matching glue.
nowikusss 1 month ago
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nowikusss 1 month ago
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@invict2007 acharya s back peddles on her "zeitgeist claims and sources"
search for: The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED
bible condemns sun worship, so it is not "astro-theology"
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
John Gwyn Griffiths " Pyramid Text line 632"
isis "placed opon thy phallus and thy seed comes forth into her"
NOT A VIRGIN BIRTH
TheTrollFU 4 months ago
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When Christ asks you at judgment, "Who do you say I am?" Make sure you give the pre-Novus Ordo Council answer, "God." If you give God the common Masonic answer out of the Gnostic bible, "you are the son of a burning bush fire (the lord)", you will quickly learn what this world was about and you will have an eternity to pay for it. As the Traditional Catholic Church breathes its last breath, the New Order replaces it. Will you have the knowledge to stand?
FATIMAMOVEMENT d o t c o m
fatimamovement 6 months ago
Jesus is a Myth!!
anchelicht 6 months ago 5
@anchelicht this book proves only that there are two models of so called christianity.One mixed with legends and myths dated back to Egipt and Sumer culture rich in astrological paralles and second-purified from any of such influence and one true way of Holy Spirit where Jesus can not be Sun as Bible says that'THE Word',' greek Logos' or hebrew 'alef - tav' was at the beginning and nothing was made without WORD.Jesus doesnt derivate from creation and physical beings He is hidden in the Creator.
nowikusss 1 month ago
@anchelicht u are wrong
nowikusss 1 month ago
@nowikusss No I'm not wrong! No I'm not wrong! Theories of real evidence, nothing!
anchelicht 1 month ago
@anchelicht my evidence of Jesus Christ: I was addicted to drugs and at the edge of breakdown and I prayed to God with this words: 'I am giving you all my life....' and then He (Jesus) came with love that is indescribable and renew me and cleansed my sin'. He is not a slim, smooth guy like catholic church presents Him on canvas.He is a mighty warrior fighting for his people.INDESCRIBABLE - so not matching any realm of words and material evidence.../don't try to use hammer to unscrew srew/
nowikusss 1 month ago
Umm ya...pretty sure christianity & paganism are two completely difft things
sxymelissannt 7 months ago
@sxymelissannt No.
martynblackburn1977 4 months ago
Jesus isnt just sun he is the light of the world, call whatever you want to him, mithras,sun,light or whatever you want, he is the real saviour thats why roman legions believed to him after mithras, its not just for romans even the birthplace of mithras armenia, even armenians adopted christianity after his divine holy power. jesus isnt the sun god its the people and cultures who mixed religion with their old way of worshiping, but still jesus is the sun and he is the real light of the world.
Metalicalypse 7 months ago 4
@Metalicalypse He is not the sun and not the Son either. He is not even a savior let alone of divine holy power. Such things do not exist, its only in the fantasy of religious people because they are concepts made by people and God has nothing emphasis on NOTHING to do with it !
TheRelihunter 2 days ago
@TheRelihunter :)) Who knows...
Metalicalypse 2 days ago
explain why demons fear him though..
Arohanuiora 7 months ago
Jesus as the Sun throughout History
stellarhousepublishing. com /jesusasthesun. html
Hercules2345 10 months ago
The True God commanded not to worship the sun god trinity: Deuteronomy 4:19 Deuteronomy 17:3. The Egyptians named the days of the week after deities, just like the Romans and because the children of the True God worshiped on one of those days, does not mean they were worshiping one of those gods. The Jews never gave offering to the moon; unless they were apostate Jeremiah 15:9 2 Kings 23:5 and then they were punished for doing so.
ApostasyRestoration 10 months ago
The birth of Yeshua was celebrated on April 17th by true Christians, they kept the Sabbath, they wouldn’t dream of wearing the mark of the beast, or of taking that mark in their foreheads as all of the sun god assemblies did. The original Christians prayed and baptized in the name of the Messiah Yeshua and baptized by immersion. The original Christians did not cross themselves or pray in the titles Father Son and Holy Ghost like the Sun God worshipers did in Greece and the Roman Empire.
ApostasyRestoration 11 months ago
Moses and the children of Israel kept the Sabbath on Saturday, keep the 7 annual Sabbaths and the feasts, followed hundreds of different commandments that liberated the 12 tribes from the corrupt sun god greedy, perverted ways. Pharaoh and the sun god followers worshiped on the sun god day, followed Lent, Easter and Christmas - just like the Catholic Church did under its Pope and High Priest Alexander the great and as Babylon did.
ApostasyRestoration 11 months ago
The illuminati know this thts why they are the enlightned ones. They keep us in the dark
youngrizzy0007 1 year ago
"The Christian religion is a parody of the worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Jesus in place of the sun god Horus, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun". Thomas Faine 1737-1809
There are hundreds of religious figures that claim born on 25th december (which is the winter solstics) died and resurected etc etc etc... they all descend from worship of the sun and astroligal symbolism of pagans. 3 kings are a star constellation, I'm glad the internet can share this.
Elibobbob 1 year ago
@Elibobbob Can you give a few examples of the so called hundreds and btw Horus was supposedly born during the month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), and not on December 25 and has no other simularities to Jesus?
fusionhunter 1 year ago
@fusionhunter why do you think this? Early occult art is shown with jesus head on the sun, this is because he is the sun personified into the son (the sun god made into a person), early christians knew this, which is why jesus always has his head with the sun. Xmas is the winter salstics when the sun seems to die (at it's lowest point) then re-appears as resurected. Xmas and easter are pagan traditions and Christiany is a parody of the worship of the sun. It is astroloical mythology. Do search.
Elibobbob 1 year ago
Elibobbob 1 year ago
@Elibobbob All your horus points are FALSE.Same with Attis, Khrishna and all the others HAVE BEEN PROVEN FALSE. THAT IS A FACT. Yes I'd love more of your false information that was told to you. Do some proper research. The whole resurrection concept with the sun has been DEBUNKED TOO. DO SOME RESEARCH YOURSELF. Also can you please explain why the bible has prophecies that have come true to accurate detail. Congratulations for educating yourself with false information about diifferent religions
fusionhunter 1 year ago
@fusionhunter faith is blind, fact. They don't teach common sense in education either, sadly. But I will just add "We associate being proved wrong with failure, yet being proved wrong should be celebrated as this is evevating someone to a new level of understanding"........ ultimately people will believe what they want to regarless of the evidence, fact. Read the story of the Cardiff Giant.
Elibobbob 1 year ago
@Elibobbob Common sense? You still havn't explained why the simularities between Jesus and others like Horus are completely wrong. Even the Attis facts are a joke and a laugh because they were made up facts. Can you explain why the bible has prophecies that has come true to good detail and please PROVIDE REAL FACTS.
Stop throwing false lies at me and get some proper facts instead of facts that have been already proven false.
fusionhunter 1 year ago
@fusionhunter Similarities between Jesus and horus and other dieties are not wrong. Christian propagandist claim they're wrong, but they are not, you'll only find out by doing your own research (ouside of the christian sites) and coming to your own conclusions (if you have common sense that is). The idea of prophecies is a ridiculous one and why I didn't respond. In psychology it is called 'subjective validation'..
Elibobbob 1 year ago
@Elibobbob Prophecies are ridiculous? How exaclty? They have happened and come true. That is a fact and something you shouldn't ignore or call ridiculous. I love how you say christians have claimed their wrong. That has nothing to do with it. I don't care who it was that PROVED THEY WERE WRONG. Give me the Attis and Horus facts so I can prove them wrong for you. Also can you please get it from a real source.
fusionhunter 1 year ago
@fusionhunter I told you prophecies are 'subjective validation'.. you do not listen. I told you the 3 kings are a star constellation and not people and that christianity is a parody of pagan worship of the sun. I do not take people's word for things, I research, experiment, observe then come to my own common sense conclusion, based upon satisfying the forementioned. 'Nullus en vebra' Royal Society. You say you want to prove me wrong, which just proves you are not open minded or able to listen.
Elibobbob 1 year ago
@fusionhunter Bible prophecies are ridiculous for sure - the NT writers simply read the OT and wrote the NT to make it fit by using the OT as a blueprint. None can be confirmed to have come true. Same as the over 20 passages throughout the bible claiming Jesus was famed far & wide - not a single claim has ever been verified with credible evidence. nothing has changed in 2,000 years - how much more time to you need to realize that Jesus is nothing but a mythical character?
Hercules2345 1 year ago
@fusionhunter "The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a, cf. 809c)" ...
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares:
"I am the great virgin"
"The Egyptian goddess who was equally ‘the Great Virgin’ (hwnt) and ‘Mother of the God’ was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]." - Dr. Witt, an Egyptologist
- Christ in Egypt, page 152
watch?v=H_IdFsTaQ0A
Hercules2345 1 year ago
Elibobbob 1 year ago
Good music though - got to love symphony No. 9. My second favourite of Beethoven's behind No. 7.
hess6wi 1 year ago
This is a superb example of taking metaphor way too far. Light based imagery is used in most major religions, due to the power of sight as a sense, in an effort to describe the indescribable. Jesus as a Sun God? You might as well argue Jesus is thinking and logic based on John's gospel and the books of wisdom and a similar array of sources used here. Or that he's the emotion love. You'd have similar success. All it requires is to ignore contrary evidence/passages/practises - e.g. communion.
hess6wi 1 year ago
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hess6wi 1 year ago
I am not really getting your point here...Are you saying that you are seeing this from a religious standpoint? If so, then I understand the hypocrocy and confusion..Thats religion. But from a spirituality standpoint, just let me say, ok. Well Done! Sun (Son) is the Source of Life...
movers4houston 1 year ago
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15. Jesus said to them: And you say who I am?
16. Simon Peter answered, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God!
17. Jesus said to him: Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, because it was not flesh and blood that revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven.
"I know that will come the Messiah, called Christ: when he comes, we will announce everything. Jesus said to him: I am I talking to you" (4:25-26).
AnaFemeel 1 year ago
watch google video:
Thomas McEvilley on 'The Shape of Ancient Thought'
qaplatlhinganmaH 1 year ago
The zeitgeist makes a play on the homonyms sun and son. The movie claims Jesus the son risen from the dead, is actually the sun that rises in the morning. The problem with this is that sun and son are not homonyms in the languages the bible was actually written in(Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic) For instance, Son in Hebrew is בן (ben-) and Sun in Hebrew is הַשָּֽׁמֶש (ha·sha·mesh.)
legogamer8 1 year ago
@legogamer8 This so amuses me when Jesus is not his name that is why you come with all this garbage! Try his real name in Hebrew and then see what you get? Yesu that is right now look it up! That is his real name. He is the SON of YHWH his only SON. If you were a Roman and worshiped the SUN then call him Jesus.
RubysTableTalk 1 year ago
@RubysTableTalk Well sir I am sorry that you are angry, but that does not refute what I said. Jesus, or Yeshua is not the sun God. He is God. Either way there is still power in the name of Jesus. Demons still flee when I use the name of Jesus, the Sick are still healed in the name of Jesus. There is power in the name of Jesus. Call him the Hebrew Yeshua if you like, that is of course fine as well.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@legogamer8 No it is Yesu that is his and I know that when you use that name it works but his name is really Yesu. And I am known he is the Son of God. This video made me sick! I see we both know that he is not the sun but the SON. Blessings to you.
RubysTableTalk 1 year ago
@RubysTableTalk Yes this video ridiculous. But as the bible says "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13) Be encouraged.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@legogamer8, It would be wise for you to read through these couple links & make the necessary adjustments. Acharya addressed the son/sun issue long ago in her FAQ's at her forum:
Son/Sun
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=4835#p4835
The Name Jesus
iesous. org
The bible is a bigoted text that calls everyone evil or fools who asks for evidence to substantiate theistic claims because the Abrahamic religious texts are full of discrimination while THEY are the "seducers."
Hercules2345 1 year ago
@legogamer8 people in all religions, and some atheists, experience similar miracles on a regular basis. it's all about intention and faith. unfortunately, to get that benefit, you also have to believe absurd things like gay people being "evil" (as if their lives aren't hard enough!), wives having to "submit" to their husbands, and let's not forget all the people God basically blows up and murders in the old testament and all the torture he commands, and ultimately causes in Hell.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
Yes many people experience miracles throughout various aspects of life. That does not change the fact that there is one true God. And God doesn't simply call gay people evil but all people evil. Don't highlight what the bible says just about gays but all mankind. The bible says "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous,
legogamer8 1 year ago
@legogamer8 It absolutely changes the basis for claiming there is one true God. Without the miracles, there is no basis for superiority or truth. You are being logically inconsistent. Another example is your bait and switch about homosexuality. The bible does not condemn heterosexuality (at least in marriage), but it does condemn homosexuality; however, homosexuals are attracted only to the same sex. They cannot fulfill their desires any other way and yet THEIR impulse is singled out as evil.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
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@Sveccha93 nor drunkards, nor revilers nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. (1 Corinthians 6:10) The bible continues to say "There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10) So yes the bible calls both homosexuals and heterosexuals unrighteous. Yes the bible says a man that lusts after a woman unrighteous and a man that lusts after a man unrighteous. The bible calls a woman that lusts after a man unrighteous and a woman that lusts after a woman unrighteous.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 The unrighteous do not inherit the kingdom of God, but Hell. Why does God send people to hell? He doesn't, people choose to go to hell. Hell was “prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41) Hell was not even created for mankind but because of sin mankind became the sons of the devil. The devil is the father of sin. Because mankind follows the devil both man and the devil have the same fate. Yet there is hope.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@legogamer8 My reading of the bible is as an unbeliever, you walk up to Christ at the end of the world and he tells you to go to Hell. So God just made it for Satan but, whoops, He didn't see the whole sin thing coming! Gimme a break! It's a cruel and stupid thing to believe is happening to your neighbors because they won't accept your bizarre and bloody magical stories.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
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@Sveccha93 The cross of Christ. Jesus Christ died and gave his life on the cross so that mankind could be forgiven for all sin and become the sons of God once again. All that one must do is believe on the Lord Jesus and they are now a son of God saved from the sentence of death and hell which all deserve because all have sinned. People choose to go to hell by rejected God and his son Jesus. If you reject God then reject the good things he has for you.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 Yes the bible says that wives should submit to their husbands but you neglected the rest of the scripture. “ Husbands love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it” (Ephesians 5:25) This shows that Biblical submission is for two Christian believers joined in marriage.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@legogamer8 Doesn't change the fact that the Bible guarantees your wife must obey you and shouldn't speak out loud in church. Just because there is a spiritual contract does not change the fact that women as adults with fully functional minds should not have to obey anyone all the time, whatever that person might do for them.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 When a husband loves his wife as Christ loved the church than it is very easy for a biblical submission to be effective in marriage. Christ loved the church to the point that he gave his life for it. That means Christ sacrificed for the church. If the bible is saying that Husbands should be like Christ in marriage then the bible is saying Husbands should be willing to sacrifice all they have for their wives.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@Sveccha93 Being that the husbands must sacrifice, submission actually has a two-sided process, not the one side you preferred to portray.
legogamer8 1 year ago
@legogamer8 Again again, I say: just because their are two sides to the contract doesn't make those sides equal, logical or fair. The husband has to sacrifice himself (provide and physically protect, etc.) and then, in turn, the wife has to obey him. I think a lot of women would gladly trade spots.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
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RubysTableTalk 1 year ago
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RubysTableTalk 1 year ago
The more I read on this subject, the sicker I get thinking of how long I've been lied to. I'm sure all the liars had good intentions, but it makes me sick
whamfan87 1 year ago
Zeitgeist the movie has been critisized as having very faulty evidence by plenty of critics and scholars, come one people grow up, its like the da vinci code, just because you dont believe in God and feel lonely and rejected you blame God and religion for this? God will help you and your loneliness when you give in... The Catholic religion has produced many saints and organizations which help the world, weigh that against the sins of the catholics next time... or show me a secular comparison
abadjpyo 1 year ago
to think silly christians worship the sun in disguise. to say your not going to worship a gigantic ball of sun makes u sound just stupid. is it somethin you need to pray too?? no but its what keeps u alive buddy
chrisfraire21 1 year ago
@chrisfraire21 Its not silly. I can see why they would change it. I think doing so saved alot of people from not believing which would be bad for mankind. While it was still wrong the intensions behind it were somwhat good. I dont like that the bibble was changed, but realizing this I now have to reimagine what I thought I knew. and once again tr to comprehend.
coldblood274 1 year ago
it's not that he didnt exist. it's just that his existance was severely altered to create the image of the antichrist.
meak911 2 years ago
Im not goin to worship a gigantic ball of gas.
canuckman87 2 years ago
Well, for Xians, that's precisely what they've been worshipping. And many other religions too along with the moon, planets, stars, constellations etc.
But even derogatorily calling it a "gigantic ball of gas" is embarrassing even for atheists - how long do you think you or the earth as we know it would last w/o the sun? Not long at all.
No sun = no atmosphere to breathe & no photosynthesis means no plants etc for food. No warmth, no light. No sun = nearly all life on earth dies.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
No, really? Im saying im not going to go to a church every week and pray to a star.
canuckman87 2 years ago
Who ever asked you to? Are you another Christian or an atheist or what? What's your point?
Hercules2345 2 years ago
Im an atheist. This video is proof that jesus (along with the dozen other gods of that story) was the ''son'' and people back then didn't know what the sun was, what the stars were, what the moon was etc.
canuckman87 2 years ago
Obviously they didn't have the depth of scientific knowledge we do today but, their mythologies do demonstrate categorical that yes, they did understand that the sun generated most all life on earth.
That's why winter solstice & spring equinox (Christmas & Easter) celebrations were a big deal to pre-xian ancients. They knew the effects of the sun. They also knew it was the suns light that was being reflected in the moon. We use the same constellation patterns in astronomy today too.
Hercules2345 2 years ago 8
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@Hercules2345 acharya s back peddles on her "zeitgeist claims and sources"
search for: The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED
bible condemns sun worship, so it is not "astro-theology"
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
John Gwyn Griffiths " Pyramid Text line 632"
isis "placed opon thy phallus and thy seed comes forth into her"
NOT A VIRGIN BIRTH
TheTrollFU 4 months ago
And what's wrong with this statement??Why not to be a sunlight, enlightening people from darkness of ignorance???The mistake the people eventually did was to start worshiping him,just as many ignorant did worship the sun.That's all the deal.
cymonette 2 years ago
the 1st part of zeitgeist describes it well 2... great vid x
gaerwitch 2 years ago 2
talmud of Jmmanuel
tjresearch . info
russell7771181 2 years ago
D1ZaST4R: when ever you have to use the word "must" in your assertions, it simply means your suppositions are baseless in fact. So in order to comprehend the world you're living in, you make up beliefs in order to simplify it for yourself.
All that stuff that "seems" so true, isn't.
eurisko67 2 years ago
D1ZaST4R, this is all about human psychology. We live in a funny world, where people believe in ghosts, ufo, gods etc etc.
Actual medicine is still using placebo effect you know ... What this movie is showing is called astrothelology. Astrotheology explains religions as an metaphoric way to abord cosmos cycle. For info, until 1000 AC, religious where into mathematics, philosophy, psychology, astronomy and more ... Been religious was meaning "Educated to thoses sciences"
boobaliz 2 years ago
@boobaliz i hear you bro, but lumping different phenomena in their with man-made religions makes you appear a bit ignorant. i am a rational, adult person and i have seen a ghost. i don't necessarily know what it was, and i don't necessarily believe it's a person's spirit, but i swear on my children, i sat looking, in broad daylight, at a black thing with no face that then ran away. you don't know me and it is easy for you to blow this off or forget it, but it happened, and i know you're wrong.
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@boobaliz also, why can't there be UFOs? I don't claim that any current pictures or videos are real extraterrestrial machines, but it's just as weird that we exist on a planet...why not others who are farther along with their technology?
Sveccha93 1 year ago
it is not a person. It is a divine force. Whose energy indeed does feel like true love. Thus why it used it's power to create us and everything around us. I'm not saying I know anythinga bout what it is exactly. But the first law of thermo-dynamics, and some of Steven Hawkings claims prove that there was and still is a seperate source of energy outside of the universe. Perhaps the answer lays in self-spirituality? This is why I am so interested in Buddhism, and new-day religions, such as ECKanar
AFROMANFAN 2 years ago
why does it seem so true? You are correct its possible theyre might be many many things in the universe we have not yet discovered and do not understand but what has you believing we need a "God". I believe we are all one conciousness experiencing every complex possibility through a self created filter called time
deanjdk 2 years ago
Anyone know if the words for "son" and "sun" similar in other languages, such as Greek or Aramaic, as they are in English?
gford333333 2 years ago
View "Zeitgeist Debunked? Don't Make Me Laugh! (Part 1)" for a small taste of that at 3 minutes.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
see zeitgeist failed at visual truth part 1 and 2
falseistrue 2 years ago
At first, because of the title, I thought it was going to be another attack Zeitgeist 1, but it was quite the opposite.
Thanks for making those videos.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
jesus is a lie though right?
kmcl11 2 years ago 2
kmcl11: More accurate to say Jesus is a complete fabrication.
eurisko67 2 years ago 2
Many words in English where not invented from scratch but adopted. Such word as Catastrophe its Greek word for bad star.
kickballsuper 2 years ago
I used an online translator site to see what sun and son were in Greek and Hebrew. The words are very close indeed in Greek. In Hebrew, the words appear nothing alike.
gford333333 2 years ago
So ask ChelevSaRa what he used for that video. He's not making it up. You really think just any online translator has all the answers. Do you know anything about how etymology works?
Hercules2345 2 years ago
sun of god and son of god are only similar in the english language but very different in the other earlier languages that the bible was written in. So anyone who states that claim is a retard. Shrowd of Turin proves his existance bty because no one could have done it and shows exaclty as scripture says! beat that dis-believers.
n3nshat1 2 years ago
"Shrowd of Turin proves his existance "
Pppffffffttttt - ha, ha , ha ... wow, what a knee-slapper! LMAO!
Goes to show the damage caused by keith TRASH and his cult followers known as TRASH HEADS. Even decent Christians are embarrassed by keith's nonsense.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
We know Paul wrote his epistles around 55 AD and he describes aquiring the gospels around 35 AD. Virtually no modern historian would question this. He believes he was a witness at the write time and place. There is overwhelming evidence of Jesus existance. What evidence is there of any historian of his time claiming his nonexistance?
christiantaoist 2 years ago
Strange that Paul chose not to quote anything from the gospels he "acquired around 35AD". No teachings, no miracles, not even anything Jesus said. Very strange...
spaceagebachelor 2 years ago 3
@spaceagebachelor are you insane?? your video was not even logical to begin with, if you based your life upon the same "logic" you base your arguments here you would not be alive today...and Paul refers to the gospels as scripture in the epistles...can't you see you are fulfilling Bible prophecy by making this stupid video? ohh what's the point to even write this to you?? you are a puppet for the zeitgeist/illuminati-support team.. simple as that
selviskk 1 year ago
As soon as one starts making claims like "no modern historian would question this... overwhelming evidence of Jesus existance[sic]" it's immediately suspect.
Half of Paul's epistles are known to be forgeries. He knew hardly anything about the story of Jesus as we know it in the Gospels today. His Jesus lived in heaven not earth. Paul only met Jesus via his "vision"/ epileptic fit.
The lack of evidence from any contemporary means Jesus probably never existed.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
First of all, I stated "Virtually no modern historian would question this". If you know the numbers enlighten us. I am referring to the work of Dr. Habermas of which to my knowledge no one disputes. When I state the gospels I am referring to the message. 1 Corinthians and Galatians are the books I am referring to.
You claim, "The lack of evidence from any contemporary means Jesus probably never existed. "
Dr. Habermas used 17 sources in his thesis of 350 pages.
christiantaoist 2 years ago
Dr Habermas of 'Liberty University'? hahahahahaha
spaceagebachelor 2 years ago
You are the one lacking evidence. You are the one that has to show evidence of historians claiming his nonexistance.
christiantaoist 2 years ago
You demonstrate absolutely no understanding of how things work - you make a claim, it's your job to provide the evidence. It's called 'burden of proof' look it up.
If you can't substantiate your claims with VALID evidence, reasonable people will dismiss your claims as unfounded nonsense - rightfully so.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
The evidence has been demonstrated. You have provided no sources and no evidence. I on the other hand have. Most NT scholars agree that Paul wrote those books unless you can prove otherwise this discussion is over.
christiantaoist 2 years ago
Er, even Wiki "Pauline epistles" says:
"Several of the letters are thought by most modern scholars to be pseudepigraphic"
Only 7 of 13 are considered authentic & their are cases against those.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Your reliance upon xian apologists fail you.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
Well congratulations you stepped up to the plate but foul ball. If you are going to post something like that at least explain what letters are being described. You are the one who doesn't seem to understand. When I referr to NT scholars I am not referring to apologists. You need to take a closer look at what I have been posting and not make erroneous claims. Again the epistles I am referring to are 1 Corinthians and Galatians.
christiantaoist 2 years ago
"Only 7 of 13 are considered authentic & their are cases against those. "
Really, what percentage of noted scholars would seriously engage in such a debate?
christiantaoist 2 years ago
Do some real research of your own - don't ask others to do your research for you
Hercules2345 2 years ago
The research has been done. Virtually everyone concedes that Paul wrote 1 Corinthians and Galatians. You claim Jesus probably never existed because historians living in the area at that time fail to mention him. I claim that at least some of those historians must have known of the Christians and if so why would they not refute anything they were claiming let alone his very existance.
christiantaoist 2 years ago
"I claim that at least some of those historians must have known of the Christians"
You can't just make unfounded claims - back them up with valid evidence. If Jesus never existed then there's no reason for those contemporaries who lived at that time to mention him. Which is precisely what we have.
See if you can find the first VALID mention of a historical Jesus.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
"Jesus sun God" video explains more. Some people don't believe in Jesus as God because of history and its absence of evidence, but some other don't believe because of this present time absence of evidence...
kickballsuper 2 years ago
@christiantaoist I have often wondered why is there no prophecy in the bible or the words of christ to fortell about the arrival of paul or his significance? I would think that someone with a job as important as pauls would have been prophecied about.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123 haha, yes, his job was important: to make an overwhelming new cult as harmless as possible to the big-wigs in the government...and boy did it work!
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@christiantaoist Your statement that "virtually no modern historian would question this" referencing Paul's writing of the epistles is wrong. There is no evidence that Paul ever existed. You then ask "what evidence is there of any historian of his time claiming his nonexistence?" That is a meaningless question. The onus of proof is on the person making the claim. Also it's an absurd question. You may as well be asking "what proof does any historian have of the nonexistence of thor?"
rooster26730 1 year ago
its extremely difficult to get through to people who really dont want to know the truth you all just watch these videos and they basically say there is no god or jesus therefore no sin. that allows you to do as you wish with no consequence except that of this world. why would eleven disciples of jesus be killed and tortured to death if they didnt truely know that jesus was the true savior. he was prophecised in the old testament and fullfilled every prophesy god will judge you what will you say
dorkface5000 2 years ago
"its extremely difficult to get through to people who really dont want to know the truth"
It's even more difficult to get through to those who think they know the truth.
spaceagebachelor 2 years ago
thats what im saying!!!!!
dorkface5000 2 years ago
@spaceagebachelor and I belive you know the "truth"???
KREATOR472 1 year ago
@spaceagebachelor
Have you done research on Quezelcotal?
Quezelcotal was a Mayan Sun God of Death and Resurrection, who was worshipped across the world from Europe.
He was born from a virgin, carried a cross, shed his blood for mankind, and was resurrection, and ascended into heaven to be a star. He will return at the end of the world, when civilization shall end, Quezelcotal shall have a second coming.
Interesting...
maxhiner699 1 year ago
@dorkface5000 In the history of religion christianity is realy new.There are much older beliefs what makes you so sure your right its one of just many religions.If you dont learn the history of the oldest belifes youl stay blind in order to be awaken you must learn the anchient history and how the storys were passed on .
callofdutymw2geek 1 year ago
@dorkface5000 all the christians i ever knew did as they wished as well. look how those big preachers fall hard! people make mistakes because they're stupid. they don't need a book to tell them not to punch their kids or put cigarettes out on their wife, because they have an "imagination" which allows them to identify with others. your god is a very mean person...if people don't accept all those stupid stories with no proof, he tortures them forever, because he loves them so much. why make us?
Sveccha93 1 year ago
@dorkface5000 they are mythS! u dont know for a fact anything that the bible says and anyway as far as the prophecies being done the bible can be used as a blue print for those in power to use it as an excuse for there greedy self
eliasisnemesis 1 year ago
there is more proof that jesus walked upon the earth than ceaser yet there is noone refuting his excistance everyone says hes a fact well my brothers jesus was a man and died for the sins we all commit and will forgive you if you only ask. i pray you see before you meet god on your judgement day. i kow you will attack me for what i say but god has left behind uncountable truth if you would only search it with an open mind. these false prophetes allow you live in sin.
dorkface5000 2 years ago
According to your fable, your god created a hell for all of the billions of people who do not worship him. Such a malicious being is not worthy of worship.
spaceagebachelor 2 years ago
nowhere in the bible is jesus refered to as the sun and if you REALLY did your research which you obviosly havent done you would realize that the people whom you got your info from are terribly wrong. i also questioned the bible for many years yet upon VALID reasearch done from an athiest point of view i was converted to chistianity and i dont like to call myself a christian but a disciple of jesus christ, god doesnt want us to pratice religon and sacrifice he want us to love and tellhisword.
dorkface5000 2 years ago
"nowhere in the bible is jesus refered to as the sun"
Read this e-book - "Jesus as the Sun throughout History" stellarhousepublishing. com /jesussunexcerpt. html
There remains NO valid evidence for Jesus regardless of your claims.
Hercules2345 2 years ago 3
You are wrong about more evidence for Cesar. Your fairy tales say Jesus cured the sick, brought the dead back to life and then for an encore rose from the dead, yet there is still no evidence he ever existed. The stories all conflict with each other and are written by medieval minds. If you converted it had nothing to do with the evidence.
rangerider79 2 years ago
really? you know in certain parts of the world there are people who have never heard of jesus,..why didnt this god get his point across to everyone? asians pray to buddah,..some people pray to rats.
captaindebunker 2 years ago
why dont you do the resaerch on these doubts that you have not only from a worldly view and see what the bible says about it. by the way explain to me where man came from and the rest of the universe how can all the amzing things in this world come from a explosion in the universe? where did the universe come from? someone created it our excitance was not an accident. i dont have all the answers i could find them but before you write of jesus try to look at the facts not just someones interpreta
dorkface5000 2 years ago
@dorkface5000 so christians don't sin, and people that aren't christians don't feel guilty or bad about their mistakes?
Sveccha93 1 year ago
The ebook that's the subject of this vid says:
"The sun-son play on words as applicable to Christ has been deemed so "common" as to represent a "devotional pun." Therefore, shallow criticisms of the statement that the son of God is the sun of God represent illogical straw men reflective of ignorance of this fact and should be dismissed as such. In reality, the repeated punning across several centuries proves once more that Christ was widely associated with the sun long before the 19th century."
Foolbuster99 2 years ago
Jesus is the SUN...He comes on a Ccloud and leaves on a cloud. Check him out with his crown of thorns.Christians just can't swallow the real TRUTH.. It's all about ASTROTHEOLOGY and the ZODIAC... Imagine all the people
TheBoopski 2 years ago
Those are some BIG WORDS there... Are you saying that your a Christian and those devotional puns are just shallow criticism. You'd better take a look into Roman Religious History as well as Astrotheology. Jesus is the SUN. That's for sure! Only History of jesus ever known was in those Gospels. NO HISTORIAN in his lifetime ever refered to him as a real person.
TheBoopski 2 years ago
No. Foolbuster99 is asserting the opposite.
dudekin 2 years ago