a man was “acting responsibly” by using a condom and his partner was “acting responsibly” by using birth control, if a pregnancy results and he offers to pay for an abortion, should we say that he has fulfilled his legal obligations? This is especially relevant given that if she decides to abort he is legally powerless to stop her, but if she doesn’t abort he can be forced to pay for a child whose intentional execution he could not legally prevent.
Also, if women should not be forced to take on the responsibilities of having a child simply because their birth control failed, do we extend this same option to men?
In the case of sexual activity, acting responsibly goes beyond just taking steps to avoid pregnancy. It is also accepting – before having sex – that a child may be conceived. Abortion is about letting people avoid this part of their responsibility.
The idea that when someone is “acting responsibly” they should be immune from consequences is nonsense. Even when people are driving their cars responsibly, they can still get into accidents and they are still responsible for the damage they do.
The fact is, no scientific, biological, or medical textbook says that life begins at any point other than conception. Further, simple deductive reasoning proves that life begins at conception because that is the only time it can begin. Any other point is strictly arbitrary.
I was there, It was a very moving moment and I am pro-life! They were obviously interrupting our time and there was only 12 of them and about atleast 500 pro-lifers! This generation 1/3 has been aborted! It needs to end for God's sake and all those children un able to speak for themselves
@yakataah Do I care about their rights to AN ABORTION? No. That doesn't mean I don't care about them at ALL... There are other things to care about you know... Just in case you were not aware.
What are they saying?? Wow, real effective and tactful way to get your message across! A message to the pro-choice protestors in the video, next time try to find a more tactful and creative way to get your message across, because I'm pretty sure the Pro-life Flash Mob Team has you beat by light-years in the creativity department..
@StopCoercedAbortion Excuse me, but the entire point of "pro-choice" is about giving a choice! Pro-choice says that forced abortion is equally bad to forced pregnancy. Educate yourself a little!
Rights also have value relative to each other. For example, a store owner does not have the right to shoot a shoplifter – even if that is the only way he can recover his property. Our society says a thief’s right to life is superior to a store owner’s right to own property. This infringement on property rights is based on the relativity of rights which the law and any rational person supports. The same dynamics apply to a woman's "right to privacy", it is limited when it comes to killing.
@yakataah I HAVE been using the reply button. If you are too stupid to figure out what I am replying to just by the context of my remarks then I can't help you. At the moment of conception, an egg and a sperm cell unite to form a separate, unique, human being. That human being contains the genetic code for everything it will need in its life. Are you with me so far?
@geewhiz747 I already knew this. This "human being" of yours is just an embryo with a 50% chance of getting implanted in the uterine wall. That means that half or more of these "separate, unique human being[s]" never even have a chance of being born despite being conceived. This is why I don't think artificially taking them out of the uterus is such a tragedy.
If we buy into this myth that abortion is safer than childbirth, and if our goal is to protect women, why aren’t we encouraging women to abort all of their pregnancies? Obviously, that would save the most women. Also, if we’re trying to protect women from their children, we should allow women to legally kill their born children as well. After all, children sometimes cause the death of a parent through an accident, and some will even grow up to one day abuse or murder their parents.
In the case of abortion, the question is not whether a woman has a right to privacy, but whether her right to privacy supercedes her child’s right to life.
For over 30 years, the abortion lobby has told the public that protecting the unborn would trample on the rights of women. Before the law can say that someone’s right to participate in an activity is protected by privacy, it must first ask, “The privacy to do what?” One of the principles of the Constitution is that rights are never absolute. They all have limits. For example, libel and slander laws impose a limit on free speech, as do some consumer protection and price-fixing laws.
Our point is that while everyone has the right to live their life as they wish, they cannot kill other people in order to do so. When we say to a man that he cannot kill someone in order to get the money to buy a new car, we are not saying that he has no right to buy a new car or that he has fewer rights than the person he might kill. We’re simply telling him that one person’s right to life is more valuable than someone else’s right to buy a new car.
The pro-life position has never been that the baby’s rights are superior to the mom’s, but that they are equal. If our country was intentionally slaughtering women by the millions just so children could lead the lives they would prefer to live, the pro-life movement would be fighting that with the same intensity that we now fight abortion.
I love how pro-choice idiots call picketing outside abortion clinics "harassment", but they can barge into our private gatherings and throw their tantrums, and it they don't call THAT harassment.
@yakataah Gargantuan difference, outside abortion clinics is not the same as a planned event. This is just as inexcusable as walking into a lecture hall and drowning out a professor giving a talk. Spoiled brats should learn to behave themselves.
@JohananRaatz Gargantuan difference? Really? Are you suggesting that the pro-life people did NOT organize themselves or that their intention is NOT to disrupt the services and the volunteers?
@yakataah "NOT to disrupt the services and the volunteers?"
Ultimately they let the woman go in though if she wants yes? The people shouting down this meeting were not ultimately letting the event to progress as the speaker and the attendees wanted.
There's a huge difference between chanting outside an abortion clinic, or at any political protest of any sort for that matter, and chanting inside of a lecture hall to disrupt and event. The latter is down right rude.
@JohananRaatz This meeting went on as planned despite the disturbance just as the clinic services go on as planned despite the disturbances.
Isn't it downright rude to scream at women that they're doing the wrong thing, that they're sluts and they are ruining their lives? To call them child murderers and make comparisons to Hitler?
Even to women who are entering the clinic to use OTHER services besides abortion?
@yakataah "This meeting went on as planned despite the disturbance just as the clinic services go on as planned despite the disturbances."
You can walk into a clinic with people yelling at you. You can't continue a lecture with people yelling at you. Hence the latter is disruptive in a way the former is not.
"To call them child murderers and make comparisons to Hitler?
@yakataah When and HOW she fucks is her business. Whether or not she kills an innocent human being is not the same thing. Why does this concept make your brain hurt?
@geewhiz747 You want to control her body by telling her she cannot extract an unwanted entity out of it. Is it really hard to understand that some people with uteruses DO NOT WANT to be pregnant and making abortion illegal will simply make them get dangerous abortions?
You DO know that abortions were happening in USA before 1973, right? At a high rate, I might add.
PS: it's not an innocent human being that's being killed, that's why I have no issue with it.
@geewhiz747 Yes, because these clinics are primarily general gynecology and obstetrics clinics. There is not ONE clinic in the entire country of USA (or any other country as far as I know) that is ONLY dedicated to giving abortions.
So yes, some women go to see their gynecologist for some general inquiry and they get screamed at by anti-choicers. I think that's legally classified as harassment.
@yakataah Out of curiosity, why do you call us "anti-choicers" and not "pro-lifers?" To me, even though it is based around your position, it still seems rather negative, and that is what you are trying to impose on our group. This is all I want to know, as I'd rather not get involved in your little "debate" on this page, seeing as apparently on the internet, no one can have a civilized conversation stating their views, hearing the other person out, and discussing it from there.
@Temariwindscythe Because the pro-life movement is dedicated to taking away the choice of women. They don't want to women to make the choice of staying pregnant or not. They want women to stay pregnant. No choice.
Also, I think the label "pro-life" is hypocritical. Most pro-life people I meet are in favour of death sentencing. Aren't criminals alive too? Aren't they human? So they're not really "pro-life" as much as they are "pro-SOME lives (but not all)"
@yakataah Isn't the converse argument that many pro-choicers hold even more wacked out. They defend life of criminals yet are cool with killing the innocent.
@Temariwindscythe I'm not defending murderers and rapists sentenced to death, but if you're going to call yourself "pro-life", then you cannot let backtrack and say you don't defend all human life. It's more honest to call yourself "pro-fetus" or "pro-embryo" or "anti-abortion". In fact, I don't understand why they don't use the last one I mentioned. I think it would be really honest if they did.
@yakataah Do you think the converse argument that libs hold is more palatable. They will defend a murdere/rapist tooth and nail yet think its ok to kill an innocent child. Isn't that the more wacked out view?
I believe that we all have a right to life. BUT that right can be forfeited by for example a criminal who kills and rapes and has no hope of reform. Follow?
@MaHaRushie I will NEVER defend a murderer or a rapist. I will defend EVERYONE"s right to a fair trial. If a man is found to be guilty, I'm not defending him.
I'm actually okay with killing dangerous criminals. That's why I DON'T call myself "pro-life". Pro-life implies that you're willing to defend all human life, which is a lie, you people keep piling on conditions. Either live up to your name or change it. Don't be hypocritical.
@Temariwindscythe By the way, I'm willing to have a civilized argument if you are. I don't know where pro-lifers got the impression that pro-choicers RELISH the idea of babies dying. I really don't. I think it's sad that women want abortions. But just because it's sad doesn't mean we should make it illegal.
Have I been banned from commenting? Yet another voice of reason silenced by the anti-choicers. Quelle surprise.
Listen people, if your arguments are as water-tight as you imply, then there's not need to ban a silly pro-choicer like me, since I'm clearly in the wrong. Banning me means you're afraid of my ideas.
And you're afraid because I'm telling the truth...
@yakataah Maybe they banned you because you are incoherent, idiotic and make no sense an add nothing constructive to the debate. As for your claim that we "censor the truth" I have a proposal for you. Pretend to be a pro-lifer, and got to a "pro-choice" video and post comments as a pro-lifer. See how quickly YOUR shit gets banned.
@geewhiz747 Please point what about my responses is incoherent or idiotic. And why on earth would I do that? I have seen plenty of pro-choice videos whose comments section is simply plagued by anti-choicers. None of them have been banned.
@mrmapegothe13th May abortion continue to be legal, safe and accessible to all women in the future. May this become the standard for all the world.
And geewhiz747 replying to all my comments with insults is "keeping it under control"? geewhiz747 cannot control his own brainfarts, let alone an entire comments section.
@yakataah Safe, bullshit, depression and guilt isnt exactly safe, and the fact that you acknowledge it as a child and that you acknowledge it as the killing of a child and you still think its legal is ridiculous. When its clearly murder.
@mrmapegothe13th Not every woman who has an abortion suffers from guilt and depression, you know? In fact it's rather rare, especially in comparison to post-partum depression. And this guilt is usually brought on because people like YOU keep screaming that she did something wrong. Just because she did something wrong by YOUR moral standards doesn't mean you have the right to shove these standards down her throat or mine.
And I never "acknowledged" any fetus as child or the like
@mrmapegothe13th I usually choose to disregard the moral standards of people like you since you keep telling me it's wrong that I have a boyfriend. I usually don't listen to people who say it's wrong to love.
@yakataah Lmfao!!! That's your argument? INSULTS? Have you conveniently blocked out all of the arguments I have made without the use of insults?? Or are insults the only way to grab your attention? HIs own "brainfarts?" I am a SHE. There are plenty of us who don't think owning a vagina is a killing license my dear?
@geewhiz747 And here I am fighting for YOUR right to decide what goes inside your own uterus. I don't care if you disagree with me, I will fight for YOUR right not to be told what do about your own body, YOUR right to make your own reproductive choices without being pressured, coerced or slut-shamed by narrow-minded people. Yours and every woman's right.
@geewhiz747 First you accuse ME of saying insults instead of arguments and in the very next sentence you imply I have a cartoon fetish or something. Hmmm.
@yakataah Yawn, what have you done to acknowledge the past 6 comments I have been posting??? Because if "brainfarts" counts as an argument you are NOT one to preach to me about "not having an argument or being lazy"...
@yakataah You DO know that terms like "fetus" is simply a Latin word for a baby, so your "argument" hold no water. It's like saying, homo sapiens are not human beings. Um, YEAH it is. One word is simply a different way to describe the other.
@geewhiz747 I actually AM part of the medical community. And I asked a doctor today and she told me that medically speaking a fetus and a neonate are distinct since one is inside the womb and the other is not. So there IS a scientific distinction. I'll be darned, an anti-choicer was wrong about something! What are the odds?
@yakataah Thats surprising that a pro-choice doctor told you what you wanted to hear. Its called an opinion. I too know several medical professionals. They both happen to be working as surgeons at the Georgetown hospital in D.C and they have very different opinions than what the doctor you talked to has.
@BeastReview So they say there is NO scientific distinction between a fetus an a baby that is out of the womb? NONE AT ALL? I find that hard to believe.
@yakataah ASKING a doctor a question, doesn't MAKE you a part of a medical community... and this is not substantial evidence... "I asked a doctor something, and she said..." Please. How do I know you are not pulling stuff out of your ass...?
@geewhiz747 I AM a part of the medical community. That doesn't have anything to do with me asking a doctor a question, aside from the fact that I see doctors more often than other people do.
I've been linking you to fetus definitions from medical dictionaries to support my claims since the beginning of this conversation. Is that not proof enough for you?
@yakataah dude, he's right. Fetus is latin for baby.
But all of that aside. Almost all the pro choicers have abandened the old idea that its not a baby. The advent of ultrasound and 3d ultrasound has put an end to a lot of the weak arguments that we pro-lifers knew was bull shit all along.
"silent scream" the movie is worth watching if you still arent convinced. and that movie is probably 30 to 40 years old.
Yes they couldn't argue their case anymore with partial birth abortion.
The doctor actually shoves the kids head back into the birth canal, pulls the legs out first. Then jabs a scissors into the back of the baby's skull to suck out the brains. Then discards the body.
@MaHaRushie Maybe you're talking about pro-choicers that used to say it's not alive? Because most of us now know that it IS alive, it's simply neither a person nor a baby. There is no weakness in our arguments, unless you say science-based evidence is "weak".
Watching Silent Scream only cemented my belief that you "pro-lifers" only want to shove fear-mongering and misinformation down our throats. Yes, that movie is pretty old and as such it's filled with mistakes and fallacies.
@yakataah Well if "fear-mongering and misinformation" is translation for the "ugly truth us pro-choicers don't want to face"... Then we will continue shoving it down your throats daily!
@geewhiz747 No, dear. Fear-mongering and misinformation IS just fear-mongering and misinformation. Several doctors and obstetricians have pointed out a number of fallacies in your outdated movie.
@yakataah Actually in a third trimester abortions and in many second trimester abortions the babies do have brains. Do you know how babies who are aborted in the third trimester are killed if they survive an abortion, which happens a lot in third trimester abortions. The abortion doctor takes a scalpel and pokes through their skulls into their brains.
I dont know for sure if there is a hell, but you better hope there isnt. Because if there is you are going to burn in it for all eternity.
@BeastReview And that's why I'm against abortions that take place when the fetus is viable. Remember I am pro-choice, not "pro-killing babies" (I don't think that stance even exists).
@yakataah I didnt think you would believe in hell. But lets say hypothetically God does exist and you were judged based on how you lived your life. Where do you think you would go heaven or hell.
@BeastReview I don't see the point of this since your religion is not the same as mine. I actually don't have a problem with your religion unless you're actively trying to force women to continue being pregnant against their wishes or demonizing gay people or trying to force children in public schools to be indoctrinated by your particular flavour of religion.
@yakataah Do you think murder should be stopped? If so then how is that any different then stopping an unborn child from being killed. There are lots of religions that are anti murder.
Whether a moral belief stems from a religion or some other source. Why is one acceptable in your mind and the other not?
@MaHaRushie Because we live in a secular state, not a theocracy. If you come up with a good, non-religious reason as to why forcing women to be fetus-carriers against their will is a better moral choice than the alternative, I'll listen.
Murder is defined in the dictionary as the killing of a person. A fetus is not a person.
@MaHaRushie Non-moral? I said non-RELIGIOUS. Religious reasons and moral reasons are not the same thing.
There are plenty of moral reasons why killing people is wrong, but let me ask you something. Imagine there are only two people in the world with the blood type XYZ and one of them gets in a car accident and needs a blood transfusion. Do you think that if the second person does not want to give blood, this person is a murderer?
@yakataah In your example, I would say its pretty close to murder, but definitely immoral. It would definitely be murder if the one person put the other in a situation where he was dependent on him for blood and then did not provide it.
So what is YOUR moral reason for not allowing murder?
@MaHaRushie So if you say the guy who did not give his blood is a murderer, that would mean NOT donating blood is illegal (since murder is illegal).
So if the government were to make a law that FORCES people to give blood, you would be okay with that? After all, thousands of people die because they needed a blood/organ transfusion.
Are you honestly okay with FORCING people to give their blood and organs against their consent?
@yakataah No but what has your analogy to do with anything?
Your analogy should say that one person PUT the other in a situation where he was dependent for survival and then poisoned him or starved him or didn't give him blood or whatever. Follow?
@MaHaRushie You still have not answered my question, but at least you seem to understand where I'm getting at.
It's illegal to force a person to give blood EVEN IF someone will be saved as a direct result of that. Why do you want to make it legal then?
Pregnant women did not consciously "put" anyone in their uteruses. A pregnant woman is under no legal responsibility to keep a fetus in her uterus unless she wants to, even if the fetus will die without her.
@yakataah Umm..You said you would only accept moral reasons why abortions are wrong. I'm saying pro-lifers oppose it morally as well as religiously. Just as we oppose murder morally and religiously. Does that in your mind invalidate our position on both?
@geewhiz747 If you make abortion illegal, you're anti-choice because you take away women's choice of what to do with their own internal organs. Or are you going to deny that?
What does an "embryo" become?? Oh wait a baby! And there should be no reason for abortion to exist. If you are pro choice, you might as well be pro abortion because if your not stopping it then you are a bystander. And as a holocaust and human behavior major, by-standing murder is morally the same as murder. Legally that's not a crime but in the court of public morals it's a crime.
@yakataah Yeah "anti-choice" ... because we don't want women to make choices at ALL... YOU are just as much an "anti-choice" zealot. You oppose the CHOICE of unborn women to live. In reality, I am no less "anti-choice" than you are- I just believe in a different set of choices. I am sure unborn fetuses don't want to be bothered by butchered in the womb either.
@geewhiz747 Unborn fetuses don't want anything because they don't have developed brains. And since when does just existing give you the right to occupy someone else's internal organs without their consent?
@yakataah WE do it all the time. There are PLENTY of things society won't allow you to . What exactly gives society the right to legislate anything? What gives you the right to say the the slaughter of innocent human beings is NOT my business? BTW lemming, we've been trough this already .A brain is not fully developed until the early 20's. Using complete brain development as a litmus test leave a huge gap.
@geewhiz747 I notice you didn't answer my question. I'll ask again: since when does just existing give you the right to occupy someone else's internal organs without their consent?
Such a contrast. Pro-Lifers responding prayerfully, respectfully, lovingly. Pro-Choicers choosing to sneak in, be disruptive and antagonistic. I am proud to have been there, and I believe we gave glory to God by how we all responded. Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Pro-Life demonstrators would be arrested if they entered an abortion clinic chanting their motto. That is why they stay OUTSIDE! These pro-choice demonstrators should have to stay outside the room too.
@nutmegs030 They only stay outside because the government passed a law forcing them to stop trying to physically impede people from entering the clinic. They don't stay outside because they're respectful of women's right to their bodies. The very notion is laughable.
@mrmapegothe13th It was a great march. But the upside to our trip back to the hotel was that we saw a bunch of pro lifers and only a couple of pro choicers
@heatherkan A medical procedure? Bullshit, more like the killing of a LIVING, BREATHING being who can indeed feel pain, it is not brainwashing either, we are presented the facts and its what we believe in. IE, Our group had a choice to go, those of us who believed in the cause went, those who didnt want to stayed, we all had varying opinions.I remember seeing a group of you pro choicers by the road,and i remember talking to my friend about how little effect on the protesters you had.
@mrmapegothe13th I think you need to re-check your facts. Most abortions are performed during the first trimester, before the fetus has a developed central nervous system. How can you feel pain without nerves? Answer is: you can't.
@yakataah That doesnt make the fact that it is a living being any different, you believe that pro lifers are out to control women, but no, and i dont give a flying fuck wether the woman wants to be a mother or not, it does not give the right to kill the child. There are also other alternatives, such as adoption.
@mrmapegothe13th Yeah adoption is truly an "alternative" because staying nine months in a debilitating condition that makes people judge you a slut, prevents you from working and may kill you IS SO DARN EASY!!
@yakataah may kill you? please... and it sucks that you will be judged, but a) If you were careless, it is yuour fault and people can have their opinions. and b) If raped, then that is dreadful but why kill the child?
@yakataah sorry but you are digressing. have you already made your point (or the lack thereof) that was supposed to be unbeatable about autonomy? because I havent been enlightened yet...
@Jrink300 Let's pretend for a second I agree with you in saying that a fetus is a person deserving of rights. So the fetus will die without the blood of its mother just as the other hypothetical person will die without your blood. So why are YOU exempt from giving your blood forcibly while the woman is not? If she does not want to give blood to this fetus, why do you want to force her to?
Why is your body autonomy untouchable, but hers isn't?
@yakataah The woman is the one who is responsible for her baby. Giving her blood in the way that you say is quite different from giving my blood forcibly on the operation table. Thank you for eventually reaching your point. It is a good argument, and I am mature enough to admit it, but know that this insane circumstance is irrelevant to life. Pregnancy is an obvious drastic difference.
@Jrink300 "Baby" AGAIN! You said you were a fast learner!
Well myself and a lot of women don't see the difference between a fetus and this hypothetical dying person. Yes the fetus and the person will die without blood, but our human rights say this blood must be willingly given.
If a woman does not want to give her blood to nurture the fetus inside her, it's wrong to force her. Yes, it's sad the fetus will die, but the alternative is violating the rights of this woman. Unacceptable.
@Jrink300 The best solution would be for the fetus to be extracted from the woman and be fed nutrients in another way. But that technology does not exist yet, so for now the fetus must die.
@geewhiz747 Many of these women did not consciously create anything either. Their ovaries function whether they want it or not, you know? Why should they be be forced to be the living life-support system of a stranger they don't want inside?
@yakataah Judge you a slut? I dont know where your from but over here in Knetucky we dont instantly see a pregnant woman as a slut, and im pretty sure a life is worth putting off work and being in a debilitating state. Who knows how many heroes and inovators weve killed off.
@mrmapegothe13th If the woman does not consider this life worth her body getting messed up and her missing months off work, you cannot force her to.
Just like *I* cannot force you to give blood and miss work to save a life. Sure, it would be nice if you volunteered to save a life, but I cannot force you to give blood. Or are you suggesting state-forced blood and organ donation?
Who knows how many rapists and serial killers have been aborted? What a stupid argument.
@yakataah What a stupid argument? You are talking like life is just something you can throw out the window! How ridiculous, and no, the rates would go DOWN, women get abortions today knowing that its safe, if they dont have that peace of mind, im sure less would get one, and as i said, no one sees a pregnant woman as a slut, and in the case of abortion, the responsibility is much more heavy on the woman than the man, although men also need to learn sexual responsibility.
@mrmapegothe13th The stupid argument is that you said the aborted fetuses could have been heroes and innovators. It's stupid because these fetuses could have grown up to be rapists and serial killers just as easily. There is not guarantee they would have grown up to be good people, so it's not a solid argument to force a woman to continue being pregnant when she does not want to be.
@mrmapegothe13th And no, the rate of abortion would not go down. Abortion would continue to happen, it just would be illegal and dangerous. You're essentially condemning women to face potentially fatal situations when they don't want to be forced to be mothers.
Really? So you have NEVER heard of people judging a girl who got pregnant in high school and she doesn't who the father is a slut? Never? I find that hard to believe.
@yakataah The responsibility does rely on both, i never made any comment that it didnt, and do you honestly think abortions would continue at the same rate when women are threatened with death or other severe complications if excercised? NO, they would not, they would have far more caution, and if a girl gets pregnant in highschool she does deserve some punishment. It shows extreme irresponsibility, as does the father. And thats coming from a 16 year old!
@mrmapegothe13th Yes I honestly think abortions would continue at the same rate if it was illegal because it's been proven. There was a high number of abortions happening BEFORE abortion was made legal. In fact, in USA, the number of abortions went DOWN a few years after it was made legal. Making abortion illegal would only put women needlessly in danger
If a girl gets pregnant in high school she deserves punishment? What the hell? What century do you live in? Sex is not a crime
If abortion is about equal rights – as the pro-choice gang claims – how can “forced fatherhood” be right if “forced motherhood” is wrong?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
a man was “acting responsibly” by using a condom and his partner was “acting responsibly” by using birth control, if a pregnancy results and he offers to pay for an abortion, should we say that he has fulfilled his legal obligations? This is especially relevant given that if she decides to abort he is legally powerless to stop her, but if she doesn’t abort he can be forced to pay for a child whose intentional execution he could not legally prevent.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
Also, if women should not be forced to take on the responsibilities of having a child simply because their birth control failed, do we extend this same option to men?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
In the case of sexual activity, acting responsibly goes beyond just taking steps to avoid pregnancy. It is also accepting – before having sex – that a child may be conceived. Abortion is about letting people avoid this part of their responsibility.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
The idea that when someone is “acting responsibly” they should be immune from consequences is nonsense. Even when people are driving their cars responsibly, they can still get into accidents and they are still responsible for the damage they do.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
The fact is, no scientific, biological, or medical textbook says that life begins at any point other than conception. Further, simple deductive reasoning proves that life begins at conception because that is the only time it can begin. Any other point is strictly arbitrary.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
Pleas keep going with your drivel yakataah, I am having a blast. You are so damn amusing.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 *Please
geewhiz747 1 week ago
Oh yakataah, Why did YOUR mother not make a different choice? You wouldn't feel a difference, you were just a blob of cells, ya know?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
I was there, It was a very moving moment and I am pro-life! They were obviously interrupting our time and there was only 12 of them and about atleast 500 pro-lifers! This generation 1/3 has been aborted! It needs to end for God's sake and all those children un able to speak for themselves
annabeltwenty 2 weeks ago
Pro choicers that are this angry are probably feeling alot of guilt deep down.
MaHaRushie 2 weeks ago
@MaHaRushie No, we're just angry that you people think fetuses are more important than women.
Why would I feel guilt for defending women's rights?
yakataah 2 weeks ago 2
@yakataah I do defend women's rights. Their right to be born :)
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 So you don't care about the women that have already been born at all?
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Do I care about their rights to AN ABORTION? No. That doesn't mean I don't care about them at ALL... There are other things to care about you know... Just in case you were not aware.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
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What are they saying?? Wow, real effective and tactful way to get your message across! A message to the pro-choice protestors in the video, next time try to find a more tactful and creative way to get your message across, because I'm pretty sure the Pro-life Flash Mob Team has you beat by light-years in the creativity department..
Drooblemeister 2 weeks ago
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Drooblemeister 2 weeks ago
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Drooblemeister 2 weeks ago
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I'm just going to leave this here...
h t t p : // mypage . direct . ca / w/writer/anti-tales.html
yakataah 2 weeks ago
@StopCoercedAbortion Excuse me, but the entire point of "pro-choice" is about giving a choice! Pro-choice says that forced abortion is equally bad to forced pregnancy. Educate yourself a little!
yakataah 3 weeks ago
Did that guy at 0:38 just give a Nazi salute?! O_o
Stephie2007 3 weeks ago
C'mon YAKATAH, this is FUN
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
Gee, which one of your lame "arguments" are you going to recycle, "It's STILL her "pussy"? "YOU HATE WOMEN?" ..... YAWN.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
Rights also have value relative to each other. For example, a store owner does not have the right to shoot a shoplifter – even if that is the only way he can recover his property. Our society says a thief’s right to life is superior to a store owner’s right to own property. This infringement on property rights is based on the relativity of rights which the law and any rational person supports. The same dynamics apply to a woman's "right to privacy", it is limited when it comes to killing.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 What's your comeback to this one? Or did it make your brain hurt?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
LMFAO, a pro-choicer who doesn't understand basic embryology is preaching to us about "ignorance"? THAT'S rich.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 I suppose you're talking about me again? Now THIS I gotta hear. What exactly about embryology do you understand better than I do?
And use the "reply" button, genius, otherwise I don't know to which comment you're answering to.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah I HAVE been using the reply button. If you are too stupid to figure out what I am replying to just by the context of my remarks then I can't help you. At the moment of conception, an egg and a sperm cell unite to form a separate, unique, human being. That human being contains the genetic code for everything it will need in its life. Are you with me so far?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 I already knew this. This "human being" of yours is just an embryo with a 50% chance of getting implanted in the uterine wall. That means that half or more of these "separate, unique human being[s]" never even have a chance of being born despite being conceived. This is why I don't think artificially taking them out of the uterus is such a tragedy.
yakataah 1 week ago
Listen to the beast calling at the door for the deaths of the innocent life of the unborn.
What kind of people are they that can wage war on an unborn child?
ekajeht 3 weeks ago
If we buy into this myth that abortion is safer than childbirth, and if our goal is to protect women, why aren’t we encouraging women to abort all of their pregnancies? Obviously, that would save the most women. Also, if we’re trying to protect women from their children, we should allow women to legally kill their born children as well. After all, children sometimes cause the death of a parent through an accident, and some will even grow up to one day abuse or murder their parents.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Yakataah... waiting for the reply to this one... Does your REPLY button not work?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
In the case of abortion, the question is not whether a woman has a right to privacy, but whether her right to privacy supercedes her child’s right to life.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
For over 30 years, the abortion lobby has told the public that protecting the unborn would trample on the rights of women. Before the law can say that someone’s right to participate in an activity is protected by privacy, it must first ask, “The privacy to do what?” One of the principles of the Constitution is that rights are never absolute. They all have limits. For example, libel and slander laws impose a limit on free speech, as do some consumer protection and price-fixing laws.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
Our point is that while everyone has the right to live their life as they wish, they cannot kill other people in order to do so. When we say to a man that he cannot kill someone in order to get the money to buy a new car, we are not saying that he has no right to buy a new car or that he has fewer rights than the person he might kill. We’re simply telling him that one person’s right to life is more valuable than someone else’s right to buy a new car.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Anything to say Yakataah... or is "brainfart" the best thing you evan come up with?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
The pro-life position has never been that the baby’s rights are superior to the mom’s, but that they are equal. If our country was intentionally slaughtering women by the millions just so children could lead the lives they would prefer to live, the pro-life movement would be fighting that with the same intensity that we now fight abortion.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
I love how pro-choice idiots call picketing outside abortion clinics "harassment", but they can barge into our private gatherings and throw their tantrums, and it they don't call THAT harassment.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Anything to say Yakataah... is your reply button not working?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
"Abortion is only advocated by those who have already been born"- Ronald Reagan
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
I find the inhumanity of the pro abortion argument stunning.
woodytheflyingdog 3 weeks ago 3
@woodytheflyingdog What pro-abortion argument? Pro-choice and pro-abortion is not the same thing.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@illyria0614 What contradiction, exactly?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@JohananRaatz Maybe someone should taser you for having an opinion.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah I was suggesting tazing them for disorderly conduct not free-speech.
JohananRaatz 3 weeks ago
@JohananRaatz So if I see pro-lifers outside a women's clinic here yelling, chanting and shaking their fists at women, can I taze THEM?
Same kind of "disorderly conduct"!
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Gargantuan difference, outside abortion clinics is not the same as a planned event. This is just as inexcusable as walking into a lecture hall and drowning out a professor giving a talk. Spoiled brats should learn to behave themselves.
JohananRaatz 3 weeks ago
@JohananRaatz Gargantuan difference? Really? Are you suggesting that the pro-life people did NOT organize themselves or that their intention is NOT to disrupt the services and the volunteers?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah "NOT to disrupt the services and the volunteers?"
Ultimately they let the woman go in though if she wants yes? The people shouting down this meeting were not ultimately letting the event to progress as the speaker and the attendees wanted.
There's a huge difference between chanting outside an abortion clinic, or at any political protest of any sort for that matter, and chanting inside of a lecture hall to disrupt and event. The latter is down right rude.
JohananRaatz 3 weeks ago
@JohananRaatz This meeting went on as planned despite the disturbance just as the clinic services go on as planned despite the disturbances.
Isn't it downright rude to scream at women that they're doing the wrong thing, that they're sluts and they are ruining their lives? To call them child murderers and make comparisons to Hitler?
Even to women who are entering the clinic to use OTHER services besides abortion?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah "This meeting went on as planned despite the disturbance just as the clinic services go on as planned despite the disturbances."
You can walk into a clinic with people yelling at you. You can't continue a lecture with people yelling at you. Hence the latter is disruptive in a way the former is not.
"To call them child murderers and make comparisons to Hitler?
What if these claims are accurate?
"OTHER services"
Yes, this is unfortunate.
JohananRaatz 3 weeks ago
@JohananRaatz Women who don't want to be pregnant against their wishes are Hitler. Gotcha.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Yup! Murderers = murderers.
Now granted Hitler killed lots and lots of people, whereas mothers who commit abortion only commit one or two so maybe they aren't quite Hitler.
They definitely are the moral equivalents of Casey Anthony though.
JohananRaatz 3 weeks ago 4
@JohananRaatz So then you admit the comparison is ridiculous and overblown?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Women who don't think a pussy is a killing entitlement are "slut-shamers". Gotcha.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 No, people who want to control how and when a woman has sex and what she does as a result of it are slut-shamers.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah When and HOW she fucks is her business. Whether or not she kills an innocent human being is not the same thing. Why does this concept make your brain hurt?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
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@geewhiz747 You want to control her body by telling her she cannot extract an unwanted entity out of it. Is it really hard to understand that some people with uteruses DO NOT WANT to be pregnant and making abortion illegal will simply make them get dangerous abortions?
You DO know that abortions were happening in USA before 1973, right? At a high rate, I might add.
PS: it's not an innocent human being that's being killed, that's why I have no issue with it.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Right... because if a woman wants a PAP smear where is the FIRST place for her to go? AN abortion CLINIC? OK.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Yes, because these clinics are primarily general gynecology and obstetrics clinics. There is not ONE clinic in the entire country of USA (or any other country as far as I know) that is ONLY dedicated to giving abortions.
So yes, some women go to see their gynecologist for some general inquiry and they get screamed at by anti-choicers. I think that's legally classified as harassment.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Out of curiosity, why do you call us "anti-choicers" and not "pro-lifers?" To me, even though it is based around your position, it still seems rather negative, and that is what you are trying to impose on our group. This is all I want to know, as I'd rather not get involved in your little "debate" on this page, seeing as apparently on the internet, no one can have a civilized conversation stating their views, hearing the other person out, and discussing it from there.
Temariwindscythe 3 weeks ago
@Temariwindscythe Because the pro-life movement is dedicated to taking away the choice of women. They don't want to women to make the choice of staying pregnant or not. They want women to stay pregnant. No choice.
Also, I think the label "pro-life" is hypocritical. Most pro-life people I meet are in favour of death sentencing. Aren't criminals alive too? Aren't they human? So they're not really "pro-life" as much as they are "pro-SOME lives (but not all)"
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Isn't the converse argument that many pro-choicers hold even more wacked out. They defend life of criminals yet are cool with killing the innocent.
How do you figure that one???
MaHaRushie 2 weeks ago
@MaHaRushie I'm not defending any criminals. I'm asking why YOU're not defending them. You call yourself pro-life after all, don't you?
yakataah 2 weeks ago
@Temariwindscythe I'm not defending murderers and rapists sentenced to death, but if you're going to call yourself "pro-life", then you cannot let backtrack and say you don't defend all human life. It's more honest to call yourself "pro-fetus" or "pro-embryo" or "anti-abortion". In fact, I don't understand why they don't use the last one I mentioned. I think it would be really honest if they did.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Do you think the converse argument that libs hold is more palatable. They will defend a murdere/rapist tooth and nail yet think its ok to kill an innocent child. Isn't that the more wacked out view?
I believe that we all have a right to life. BUT that right can be forfeited by for example a criminal who kills and rapes and has no hope of reform. Follow?
MaHaRushie 2 weeks ago
@MaHaRushie I will NEVER defend a murderer or a rapist. I will defend EVERYONE"s right to a fair trial. If a man is found to be guilty, I'm not defending him.
I'm actually okay with killing dangerous criminals. That's why I DON'T call myself "pro-life". Pro-life implies that you're willing to defend all human life, which is a lie, you people keep piling on conditions. Either live up to your name or change it. Don't be hypocritical.
yakataah 2 weeks ago
@Temariwindscythe By the way, I'm willing to have a civilized argument if you are. I don't know where pro-lifers got the impression that pro-choicers RELISH the idea of babies dying. I really don't. I think it's sad that women want abortions. But just because it's sad doesn't mean we should make it illegal.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
Have I been banned from commenting? Yet another voice of reason silenced by the anti-choicers. Quelle surprise.
Listen people, if your arguments are as water-tight as you imply, then there's not need to ban a silly pro-choicer like me, since I'm clearly in the wrong. Banning me means you're afraid of my ideas.
And you're afraid because I'm telling the truth...
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Maybe they banned you because you are incoherent, idiotic and make no sense an add nothing constructive to the debate. As for your claim that we "censor the truth" I have a proposal for you. Pretend to be a pro-lifer, and got to a "pro-choice" video and post comments as a pro-lifer. See how quickly YOUR shit gets banned.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Please point what about my responses is incoherent or idiotic. And why on earth would I do that? I have seen plenty of pro-choice videos whose comments section is simply plagued by anti-choicers. None of them have been banned.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah "Please point out what about my responses..." That task would take too much time.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Clearly youve got this under control, and so ill retire, unless of course she comments to me again. May roe vs wade be overturned soon.
mrmapegothe13th 3 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th May abortion continue to be legal, safe and accessible to all women in the future. May this become the standard for all the world.
And geewhiz747 replying to all my comments with insults is "keeping it under control"? geewhiz747 cannot control his own brainfarts, let alone an entire comments section.
"She"? I'm a guy :)
Men care about women's rights too!
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Safe, bullshit, depression and guilt isnt exactly safe, and the fact that you acknowledge it as a child and that you acknowledge it as the killing of a child and you still think its legal is ridiculous. When its clearly murder.
mrmapegothe13th 3 weeks ago
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@mrmapegothe13th Not every woman who has an abortion suffers from guilt and depression, you know? In fact it's rather rare, especially in comparison to post-partum depression. And this guilt is usually brought on because people like YOU keep screaming that she did something wrong. Just because she did something wrong by YOUR moral standards doesn't mean you have the right to shove these standards down her throat or mine.
And I never "acknowledged" any fetus as child or the like
yakataah 3 weeks ago
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@mrmapegothe13th I usually choose to disregard the moral standards of people like you since you keep telling me it's wrong that I have a boyfriend. I usually don't listen to people who say it's wrong to love.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Lmfao!!! That's your argument? INSULTS? Have you conveniently blocked out all of the arguments I have made without the use of insults?? Or are insults the only way to grab your attention? HIs own "brainfarts?" I am a SHE. There are plenty of us who don't think owning a vagina is a killing license my dear?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 And here I am fighting for YOUR right to decide what goes inside your own uterus. I don't care if you disagree with me, I will fight for YOUR right not to be told what do about your own body, YOUR right to make your own reproductive choices without being pressured, coerced or slut-shamed by narrow-minded people. Yours and every woman's right.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah YEAH.... and "brainfarts" really? How long did it take you to come up with that one. Go back to jerking off to Spongebob.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 First you accuse ME of saying insults instead of arguments and in the very next sentence you imply I have a cartoon fetish or something. Hmmm.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Yeah, apparently throwing insults are the only way to grab your attention... HMMM
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 Not true, I've been paying attention to your arguments since the beginning, regardless of their lack of empathy for women.
yakataah 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 So either you're too damn lazy or you don't have argument to make. I'm thinking it's both.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Yawn, what have you done to acknowledge the past 6 comments I have been posting??? Because if "brainfarts" counts as an argument you are NOT one to preach to me about "not having an argument or being lazy"...
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@yakataah OH and REPLY button please? ... Boy, you are hypocrisy on steroids.
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 I have been hitting the reply button for every single comment addressed to you. It's not my fault if you're too blind to see that.
yakataah 1 week ago
Yakataah the women who get abortions are also harassing their babies according to your definition.
nickmaille 3 weeks ago
@nickmaille No, not really. First off, it's "fetus" or "embryo" by medical and legal standards, not "baby".
Secondly, the fetus cannot be really be bothered by an abortion because it doesn't have a developed brain yet, so it cannot tell what is happening.
Third, learn to hit the "reply" button, genius.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah You DO know that terms like "fetus" is simply a Latin word for a baby, so your "argument" hold no water. It's like saying, homo sapiens are not human beings. Um, YEAH it is. One word is simply a different way to describe the other.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 I'll call the press! We need to let the entire medical world know they have been using the wrong term for centuries.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah They have been using the right term, YOU have perverted its definition. Good thing you are not part of the medical community.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 I actually AM part of the medical community. And I asked a doctor today and she told me that medically speaking a fetus and a neonate are distinct since one is inside the womb and the other is not. So there IS a scientific distinction. I'll be darned, an anti-choicer was wrong about something! What are the odds?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Thats surprising that a pro-choice doctor told you what you wanted to hear. Its called an opinion. I too know several medical professionals. They both happen to be working as surgeons at the Georgetown hospital in D.C and they have very different opinions than what the doctor you talked to has.
BeastReview 3 weeks ago
@BeastReview So they say there is NO scientific distinction between a fetus an a baby that is out of the womb? NONE AT ALL? I find that hard to believe.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@BeastReview Fetus: The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.
Do your Georgetown surgeons disagree with this definition?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah ASKING a doctor a question, doesn't MAKE you a part of a medical community... and this is not substantial evidence... "I asked a doctor something, and she said..." Please. How do I know you are not pulling stuff out of your ass...?
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 I AM a part of the medical community. That doesn't have anything to do with me asking a doctor a question, aside from the fact that I see doctors more often than other people do.
I've been linking you to fetus definitions from medical dictionaries to support my claims since the beginning of this conversation. Is that not proof enough for you?
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah dude, he's right. Fetus is latin for baby.
But all of that aside. Almost all the pro choicers have abandened the old idea that its not a baby. The advent of ultrasound and 3d ultrasound has put an end to a lot of the weak arguments that we pro-lifers knew was bull shit all along.
"silent scream" the movie is worth watching if you still arent convinced. and that movie is probably 30 to 40 years old.
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie No, it's not.
fe·tus (fts)
n. pl. fe·tus·es
1. The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth.
Almost all pro-choicers? What the hell are you talking about? NONE of the pro-choicers I know (myself included) pretend that a fetus is a baby.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Corky, read second definition.
Yes they couldn't argue their case anymore with partial birth abortion.
The doctor actually shoves the kids head back into the birth canal, pulls the legs out first. Then jabs a scissors into the back of the baby's skull to suck out the brains. Then discards the body.
Sad but true. You gotta update your arguments.
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
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@MaHaRushie Update my arguments? Says the person who recommended a twenty-year-old inaccurate film? Oh, the irony.
YOU should read the second definition again. Take your time. Done? Did you see the word "baby" or "person" anywhere?
As for "partial birth abortions" (which is no way a medical term at all), I think you should read this:
h t t p : / / ihadanabortion . tumblr . com / post/10177700746/trigger-warning-abortion-of-wanted-fetuses
yakataah 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie Maybe you're talking about pro-choicers that used to say it's not alive? Because most of us now know that it IS alive, it's simply neither a person nor a baby. There is no weakness in our arguments, unless you say science-based evidence is "weak".
Watching Silent Scream only cemented my belief that you "pro-lifers" only want to shove fear-mongering and misinformation down our throats. Yes, that movie is pretty old and as such it's filled with mistakes and fallacies.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah You watched as the baby squirmed to get away and screamed as the doctor smashed its skull and you still are cool with abortion?
Man, you are one cold-hearted SOB.
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie You DO realize that fetuses cannot scream and that was an added sound effect, I hope?
yakataah 1 week ago
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yakataah 1 week ago
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@MaHaRushie By the way, that was just ONE of the many ways that movie of yours is medically inaccurate.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Well if "fear-mongering and misinformation" is translation for the "ugly truth us pro-choicers don't want to face"... Then we will continue shoving it down your throats daily!
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 No, dear. Fear-mongering and misinformation IS just fear-mongering and misinformation. Several doctors and obstetricians have pointed out a number of fallacies in your outdated movie.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Actually in a third trimester abortions and in many second trimester abortions the babies do have brains. Do you know how babies who are aborted in the third trimester are killed if they survive an abortion, which happens a lot in third trimester abortions. The abortion doctor takes a scalpel and pokes through their skulls into their brains.
I dont know for sure if there is a hell, but you better hope there isnt. Because if there is you are going to burn in it for all eternity.
BeastReview 3 weeks ago
@BeastReview And that's why I'm against abortions that take place when the fetus is viable. Remember I am pro-choice, not "pro-killing babies" (I don't think that stance even exists).
Well I don't believe in hell, so it's all good ;)
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah I didnt think you would believe in hell. But lets say hypothetically God does exist and you were judged based on how you lived your life. Where do you think you would go heaven or hell.
BeastReview 3 weeks ago
@BeastReview I don't see the point of this since your religion is not the same as mine. I actually don't have a problem with your religion unless you're actively trying to force women to continue being pregnant against their wishes or demonizing gay people or trying to force children in public schools to be indoctrinated by your particular flavour of religion.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Do you think murder should be stopped? If so then how is that any different then stopping an unborn child from being killed. There are lots of religions that are anti murder.
Whether a moral belief stems from a religion or some other source. Why is one acceptable in your mind and the other not?
MaHaRushie 2 weeks ago
@MaHaRushie Because we live in a secular state, not a theocracy. If you come up with a good, non-religious reason as to why forcing women to be fetus-carriers against their will is a better moral choice than the alternative, I'll listen.
Murder is defined in the dictionary as the killing of a person. A fetus is not a person.
yakataah 2 weeks ago 3
@yakataah What is your non moral reason for prohibiting murder?
Are you saying that if an unborn baby was a human being you would be against abortion?? If so, what would be your non moral reason for it.
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie Non-moral? I said non-RELIGIOUS. Religious reasons and moral reasons are not the same thing.
There are plenty of moral reasons why killing people is wrong, but let me ask you something. Imagine there are only two people in the world with the blood type XYZ and one of them gets in a car accident and needs a blood transfusion. Do you think that if the second person does not want to give blood, this person is a murderer?
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah In your example, I would say its pretty close to murder, but definitely immoral. It would definitely be murder if the one person put the other in a situation where he was dependent on him for blood and then did not provide it.
So what is YOUR moral reason for not allowing murder?
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie So if you say the guy who did not give his blood is a murderer, that would mean NOT donating blood is illegal (since murder is illegal).
So if the government were to make a law that FORCES people to give blood, you would be okay with that? After all, thousands of people die because they needed a blood/organ transfusion.
Are you honestly okay with FORCING people to give their blood and organs against their consent?
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah No but what has your analogy to do with anything?
Your analogy should say that one person PUT the other in a situation where he was dependent for survival and then poisoned him or starved him or didn't give him blood or whatever. Follow?
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie You still have not answered my question, but at least you seem to understand where I'm getting at.
It's illegal to force a person to give blood EVEN IF someone will be saved as a direct result of that. Why do you want to make it legal then?
Pregnant women did not consciously "put" anyone in their uteruses. A pregnant woman is under no legal responsibility to keep a fetus in her uterus unless she wants to, even if the fetus will die without her.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah almost all pro-lifers are morally against abortion anyway. So your point is moot.
Catholics are morally against murder and it is also a commandment so it is a religious belief well. Does that mean we should not prohibit murder?
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie I notice you didn't answer my question, but rather chose to drag Catholics into this conversation for some bizarre reason.
Answer me: would you be for or against forced government blood collection?
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Umm..You said you would only accept moral reasons why abortions are wrong. I'm saying pro-lifers oppose it morally as well as religiously. Just as we oppose murder morally and religiously. Does that in your mind invalidate our position on both?
MaHaRushie 1 week ago
@MaHaRushie I don't understand why you keep bringing religion into this, since I already told I'm not accepting any religious reasons.
Morally, you said murder is wrong, and I agree with that. The thing is: murder is defined as "the killing of a person" and a fetus is not a person.
yakataah 1 week ago
@yakataah Yeah and we are anti-abortion, not "anti-woman, "anti-choice" ( I don't think that stance even exists).
geewhiz747 1 week ago
@geewhiz747 If you make abortion illegal, you're anti-choice because you take away women's choice of what to do with their own internal organs. Or are you going to deny that?
yakataah 1 week ago
What does an "embryo" become?? Oh wait a baby! And there should be no reason for abortion to exist. If you are pro choice, you might as well be pro abortion because if your not stopping it then you are a bystander. And as a holocaust and human behavior major, by-standing murder is morally the same as murder. Legally that's not a crime but in the court of public morals it's a crime.
nickmaille 3 weeks ago
@jennie31200 Don't be a hypocrite and but the word harass in quotations. What you're doing IS harassment.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah HOW so??
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 ha·rass [huh-ras, har-uhs] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.
Most of these women don't WANT to be bothered by anti-choice zealots. Hassling people when they don't want it is the very definition of harassment.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Yeah "anti-choice" ... because we don't want women to make choices at ALL... YOU are just as much an "anti-choice" zealot. You oppose the CHOICE of unborn women to live. In reality, I am no less "anti-choice" than you are- I just believe in a different set of choices. I am sure unborn fetuses don't want to be bothered by butchered in the womb either.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Unborn fetuses don't want anything because they don't have developed brains. And since when does just existing give you the right to occupy someone else's internal organs without their consent?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah WE do it all the time. There are PLENTY of things society won't allow you to . What exactly gives society the right to legislate anything? What gives you the right to say the the slaughter of innocent human beings is NOT my business? BTW lemming, we've been trough this already .A brain is not fully developed until the early 20's. Using complete brain development as a litmus test leave a huge gap.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
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@geewhiz747 I notice you didn't answer my question. I'll ask again: since when does just existing give you the right to occupy someone else's internal organs without their consent?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
Such a contrast. Pro-Lifers responding prayerfully, respectfully, lovingly. Pro-Choicers choosing to sneak in, be disruptive and antagonistic. I am proud to have been there, and I believe we gave glory to God by how we all responded. Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.
emeraldinspirations 3 weeks ago
Pro-Life demonstrators would be arrested if they entered an abortion clinic chanting their motto. That is why they stay OUTSIDE! These pro-choice demonstrators should have to stay outside the room too.
nutmegs030 4 weeks ago
@nutmegs030 They only stay outside because the government passed a law forcing them to stop trying to physically impede people from entering the clinic. They don't stay outside because they're respectful of women's right to their bodies. The very notion is laughable.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
Excellent! So glad people are brave enough to do this <3
phsycofairy 4 weeks ago
@Wiedie95 Nice to see so many people marching for the same purpose.
Wiedie95 4 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th It was a great march. But the upside to our trip back to the hotel was that we saw a bunch of pro lifers and only a couple of pro choicers
Wiedie95 4 weeks ago
@heatherkan A medical procedure? Bullshit, more like the killing of a LIVING, BREATHING being who can indeed feel pain, it is not brainwashing either, we are presented the facts and its what we believe in. IE, Our group had a choice to go, those of us who believed in the cause went, those who didnt want to stayed, we all had varying opinions.I remember seeing a group of you pro choicers by the road,and i remember talking to my friend about how little effect on the protesters you had.
mrmapegothe13th 4 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th I think you need to re-check your facts. Most abortions are performed during the first trimester, before the fetus has a developed central nervous system. How can you feel pain without nerves? Answer is: you can't.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah That doesnt make the fact that it is a living being any different, you believe that pro lifers are out to control women, but no, and i dont give a flying fuck wether the woman wants to be a mother or not, it does not give the right to kill the child. There are also other alternatives, such as adoption.
mrmapegothe13th 3 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th Yeah adoption is truly an "alternative" because staying nine months in a debilitating condition that makes people judge you a slut, prevents you from working and may kill you IS SO DARN EASY!!
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah may kill you? please... and it sucks that you will be judged, but a) If you were careless, it is yuour fault and people can have their opinions. and b) If raped, then that is dreadful but why kill the child?
Jrink300 3 weeks ago
@Jrink300 What? Kill me? Why? Because I disagreed with you? Some "pro-life" person you are...
AGAIN using the word "child" instead of "fetus". Calling it a butterfly does not change the fact that it's a caterpillar!
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah sorry but you are digressing. have you already made your point (or the lack thereof) that was supposed to be unbeatable about autonomy? because I havent been enlightened yet...
Jrink300 3 weeks ago
@Jrink300 Let's pretend for a second I agree with you in saying that a fetus is a person deserving of rights. So the fetus will die without the blood of its mother just as the other hypothetical person will die without your blood. So why are YOU exempt from giving your blood forcibly while the woman is not? If she does not want to give blood to this fetus, why do you want to force her to?
Why is your body autonomy untouchable, but hers isn't?
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah The woman is the one who is responsible for her baby. Giving her blood in the way that you say is quite different from giving my blood forcibly on the operation table. Thank you for eventually reaching your point. It is a good argument, and I am mature enough to admit it, but know that this insane circumstance is irrelevant to life. Pregnancy is an obvious drastic difference.
Jrink300 3 weeks ago
@Jrink300 "Baby" AGAIN! You said you were a fast learner!
Well myself and a lot of women don't see the difference between a fetus and this hypothetical dying person. Yes the fetus and the person will die without blood, but our human rights say this blood must be willingly given.
If a woman does not want to give her blood to nurture the fetus inside her, it's wrong to force her. Yes, it's sad the fetus will die, but the alternative is violating the rights of this woman. Unacceptable.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@Jrink300 The best solution would be for the fetus to be extracted from the woman and be fed nutrients in another way. But that technology does not exist yet, so for now the fetus must die.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Calling someone a "teenager" versus an adult doesn't change that we are talking about the same species- HUMAN BEING...
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 I'm a human being and I don't have the right to use YOUR blood against your consent, even if I will die otherwise.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah I did not CREATE YOU, so it is not my responsibility.
geewhiz747 3 weeks ago
@geewhiz747 Many of these women did not consciously create anything either. Their ovaries function whether they want it or not, you know? Why should they be be forced to be the living life-support system of a stranger they don't want inside?
Consent to sex is not consent to being a parent.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah Judge you a slut? I dont know where your from but over here in Knetucky we dont instantly see a pregnant woman as a slut, and im pretty sure a life is worth putting off work and being in a debilitating state. Who knows how many heroes and inovators weve killed off.
mrmapegothe13th 3 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th If the woman does not consider this life worth her body getting messed up and her missing months off work, you cannot force her to.
Just like *I* cannot force you to give blood and miss work to save a life. Sure, it would be nice if you volunteered to save a life, but I cannot force you to give blood. Or are you suggesting state-forced blood and organ donation?
Who knows how many rapists and serial killers have been aborted? What a stupid argument.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah What a stupid argument? You are talking like life is just something you can throw out the window! How ridiculous, and no, the rates would go DOWN, women get abortions today knowing that its safe, if they dont have that peace of mind, im sure less would get one, and as i said, no one sees a pregnant woman as a slut, and in the case of abortion, the responsibility is much more heavy on the woman than the man, although men also need to learn sexual responsibility.
mrmapegothe13th 3 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th The stupid argument is that you said the aborted fetuses could have been heroes and innovators. It's stupid because these fetuses could have grown up to be rapists and serial killers just as easily. There is not guarantee they would have grown up to be good people, so it's not a solid argument to force a woman to continue being pregnant when she does not want to be.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th And no, the rate of abortion would not go down. Abortion would continue to happen, it just would be illegal and dangerous. You're essentially condemning women to face potentially fatal situations when they don't want to be forced to be mothers.
Really? So you have NEVER heard of people judging a girl who got pregnant in high school and she doesn't who the father is a slut? Never? I find that hard to believe.
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@yakataah The responsibility does rely on both, i never made any comment that it didnt, and do you honestly think abortions would continue at the same rate when women are threatened with death or other severe complications if excercised? NO, they would not, they would have far more caution, and if a girl gets pregnant in highschool she does deserve some punishment. It shows extreme irresponsibility, as does the father. And thats coming from a 16 year old!
mrmapegothe13th 3 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th Yes I honestly think abortions would continue at the same rate if it was illegal because it's been proven. There was a high number of abortions happening BEFORE abortion was made legal. In fact, in USA, the number of abortions went DOWN a few years after it was made legal. Making abortion illegal would only put women needlessly in danger
If a girl gets pregnant in high school she deserves punishment? What the hell? What century do you live in? Sex is not a crime
yakataah 3 weeks ago
@mrmapegothe13th I'm sad that as a 16-year-old you engage in this kind of slut-shaming. I hope you learn better by the time you go to college.
yakataah 3 weeks ago