C'est trop beau ! inquiétant, mouvant, et par moments chaleureux... et magnifiquement interprété par des musiciens (chef compris) qui semblent tous sortir d'un film de Murnau !
Art for people who get an ego boost believing they have "elite" tastes - since it's both highly theoretical (more like theological IMO) and inaccessible to the masses. Rather like the decadent Manderins of China, who cultivated a taste for rotten food. Nothing wrong with that, of course, until it becomes a government funding driven clic and dominates "modern art".
@Rufus3698 That is very interesting about the Mandarins of China. Do you have a source for it? I've tried to google for more information by not found any?
i think this piece is beautiful, just because a piece isnt in a major key doesnt mean it is bad. This piece in particular is quite listenable i think, especially compared to say 12 tone stuff, which i enjoy also but i can see where it would put people off. anyway i like this piece a lot, quite a wonderful performance
i think its useful music for movie when action doesn't have an emotional sens, if this guy didnt invent this kind of music i dont think we could see the movies same way thought
Not yet. It`s Schoenberg`s final tonal piece, after which he used free-atonality for about 5-6 years. Only in his Op. 23, we find first 12-tone series.
Yes, he does. I analyse that these days. Quartal harmonies came here big time, and it is all one big signal of atonal music. Schoenberg never liked tonality, but when he was writing tonal music, he respected it- in sense, he would give a tonic chord at the end of phrase, or piece,...
I am the furthest thing from a conservative, either politically or aesthetically. And though there were indeed artists of the past, now mostly forgotten, who were hyped way past their innate talent quotient in earlier periods, the culture industry, which decides who succeeds and who doesn't, and pre-determines "what the market will bear", only came into being in the 20th century. I am perfectly willing to concede that this same industry has a foothold in the current classical music scene.
@xfvkemosx: Some people have good taste and some people don't. Some people appreciate things of beauty, some like things that are ugly and vulgar. Some people like things that require talent and skill, some people have no discernment in that area. This isn't a response about Schoenberg. It's just that I see too many people on youtube try to make all art out to be on the same level as if it's a subjective thing. That however isn't the case most of the time.
I always heard Arnold Schoenberg's music was part of the German Expressionist scene.
I love Schoenberg's music, but I also enjoy German Expressionist movies, but not so much their paintings with the exception of Edvard Munch, who was considered a part of it, and El Greco the painter, who supposedly influenced Max Reinhardt. From his troupe sprang Paul Weggener, Conrad Veidt (?) and Max Schreck.
But I had relatives who thought Schoenberg's music just sounded like a symphony warming up.
that´s just what i thought! just like the warming up. well i think schoenberg was more interested on the inventiveness than in other aspects of music, and that´s not bad at all!
Even if you were musically correct about the chords (which you're not), the correct statement would be that the beginning of Another Brick In The Wall is the beginning of Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony, given the Schoenberg pre-dates the Floyd by many decades. Imbecile.
hahaha typicall those wankermusicians...keep it cool man, dont read to exact and dont try to be a teacher or something, you're just a loser attackin' someone on the internet who was just sayin' some shit and if you feel priviliged now do so i own you in every musical way...
I dont get these people who are dissing great composer like Arnold here. He's among the composers whom we have to give our gratitude for having some great music today.
This dude had skill and courage to push the envelope in music field back in da days and now we get to watch how some new artists bends it even more.
And not all composers could get Count Orlok to lead orchestra. ;)
@Napashark Totally with you, mate. When people make fun of me for listening to "old" music I always tell them that without the music of the past we wouldn't have the idiols thay worship because music is developed slowly over time. No body says "today I am going to invent this genre of music". I should know. As I am typing this, I am writing an essay on pop music history for college.
@Napashark, pushing the envelope can be used to push music in the wrong direction too, you know. And that's precisely what Schoenberg did. It wasn't so much courage but egotism that inspired him to do this.
@KhagarBalugrak That's an entirely subjective opinion. If you don't Schoenberg's stuff, fine. Not all music is for everyone. But why do you need to claim that he was pushing music in the 'wrong' direction? He didn't STOP anyone composing other stuff, just opened new avenues, which some of us are very grateful for. It is odd that, having accused him of egotism, you seem to think that it is your personal taste which defines 'right' and 'wrong' direction for music.
I played the second violin part for that years ago. It is supposed to be in E major... but not for long... though there are four sharps at the key signature.
Atonality did not begin with Schoenberg. Liszt wrote a piece called "Bagatelle sans tonalié". There are Scriabin Sonatas which border on being atonal. Debussy's use of the whole tone scale obscures tonality. All Schoenberg did was try to find a way to compose extended works which employed the chromatic scale in an organized fashion. He regarded what he came up with as within the tradition of the music he loved, i.e. Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner, etc. Every composer must choose his own methods.
Yes, I studied with one of Schoenberg's last pupils, Richard Hoffamann, who also served as his secretary in LA. Hoffmann is now involved with the Schoenberg Institute in Mödling. Varese did not study with Schoenberg at all. Dissonance or the lack of it does not determine if a piece is in a key. If you listen to the entire piece, you'll hear it ends in E major. It is useless to argue that music should remain static or that tonality and triads should define all musical expression. (continued)
Of course, the Beatles were wonderful, no question. But they are not the kind of "loud annoying" rock and rap was referring to. I like a lot of what is called popular music and even admire some classic rock. But I think a lot of what goes on in music today, be it pop or classical, is hype, cult of personality, fame, etc. It has far more to do with these sorts of things than it does with music. In any case, this veers off a bit from the subject at hand, but I hope it helps clarify my point
One additional point: Schoenberg has been treated as the bogeyman of music for far too long. Too many people already know what they think about this music before even listening to it, and I find THAT offensive. As someone who was fortunate to study with one of his pupils, I believe Schoenberg to be worthy of my defense and worthy of any serious musician's respect, even if they prefer different methods. One tires of the perpetual ridicule this body of work regularly receives. Listen and learn!
Undoubtedly, you're correct. But if you consider the context, I was responding to someone who was far more judgmental than I was in this regard, as he referred to this music as being the sort which would drive people crazy. So, I responded in kind. Certainly, no offense was intended to those who strive to avoid this sort of thing. The problem is finding examples of what you're referring to. If you have examples, suggest them. Otherwise, any sort of artistic declaration involves judgment.
No, it's loud, annoying rock and rap music which drive me crazy. Schoenberg may seem chaotic to those unaccustomed to free counterpoint and chromaticism, but he is eminently sane and quite logical, though also very expressive. One thing he never is, however, is numbingly repetitive.
I understand you dislike rock and rap music but there are rock and rap musicians who AREN'T repetitive and are very musical. You're just bashing on the cliche. Just trying to broaden your perspective don't be so judgmental.
I have the score in front of me. The key signature of the piece is E major. The opening fourths in the introduction are not a row, as this NOT a row piece at all. Schoenberg did not come up with row composition until the twenties. This is opus 9, a relatively early work. The first theme, which comes in the upbeat to the fifth measure of the allegro, states the E major key and it is made absolutely clear by bar 7. This is a tonal piece. It is very chromatic and contrapuntal, but tonal.
Apologies for my typo: I intended to write a "Mannheim recapitulation", as in Mannheim School of composers (circa 1750s, Stamitz, et. al.) in my earlier post.
Um, this piece is NOT atonal. It is very definitely tonal, as in, in a key. It is also in a form referred to as portmanteau, in that it is a Sonata form at the same time as being a piece where 4 movements are encapsulated into one continuous movement. Further, it has a Mannhain recap, in that its thematic groups re-appear in reverse order. The key of the piece is E major.
I find it very easy to appreciate atonal music. Not sure why. Perhaps my exposure to a lot of extreme music (free jazz, grindcore, noise, and groups like The Residents and Captain Beefheart) helped. It's wonderful stuff.
such gorgeous dissonance, it at time reminds me of a romance of the black forest, and contemporaneously the ampullaceous soul of berlin, in its eccentricity and idiosyncratic persona.
Does anyone know of any living composers that write music in this style? WHATEVER you want to call this: post-romantic, extreme chromatic-saturation, leaning towards "atonality".
i love this .. you gett a hwole buch of diffrtent feels from one pice i realy enjoyed it and this is the first time for me hearing him .. im learngin bout him and others composers and i thought id check him out .. and im more then glad i did :)
His genius reverberates in lots of modern music. I like his artwork more than his music. I'm more into earlier composers like Schubert. Schoenberg will be more revered in another 100 years.
It's interesting that many comments here seem to be focused on criticizing this work for being atonal/twelve-tone -- because it is neither; it just makes use of extended tonality. I wonder how differently this might be heard if it were presented as a recently discovered work of Wagner or R Strauss...
wow, GO Schonberg! Kind of reminds me of R. Strauss in some ways. I always think its cool to listen to the early works of composers that many don't get, like the early works of Ives. It is suprising. Very nice piece.
Atonal music is more difficult to understand than tonal music, but that doesn't mean there's no meaning to it. It just takes time to develop the ear for it. I'm just starting to... I think
It's not 12 tone. It's not even really atonal, it's just extended harmony. It's based not on tertian(3rd based) harmony like the music from the Common Practice Period; it's based on quartal harmony, which is based on 4ths. Either way, quite the piece!
12 tone is serialistic atonal music. Do you understand how it works? Cause if you haven't studied the score of op. 9, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You can't "use your ears" for atonal music, like you can for tonal music and determine chord structure/progression. It's based off a matrix that is determined by the composer.
To me, these harmonies are more than enough to be able to make me feel emotion more than someone like Wagner or Tchaikovsky does. It all depends on how you listen, and if your ears are trained to listen to 12 tone
Actually, I don't think this is 12 tone..... It's opus 9. Still early for Schoenberg. It borders on 12 tone, but it's still technically tonal. I performed the webern arrangement of it for violin cello flute clarinet and piano. It's a really funky piece when you get to know it. Still....schoenberg has a tendency to try and write a whole strauss tone poem in every bar and it kind of ticks me off sometimes.
make us feel any number of emotions, used their powerful imaginations to express themselves within what "I suppose" was considered by Schoenberg and the 2nd Viennese school an outdated tonal system, I find it hard to believe this is where western art music should be heading. This music fails to inspire me and is in my humble opinion irrelevant to the majority of human beings.
Does anyone actually enjoy listening to this music? It sounds to me like the composer is unable to decide what he wants to convey and is just kind of absent mindedly moving from one insignificant flight of fancy to another. I could be wrong but I find it hard to believe that after great geniuses like Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Handel, Scarlatti, and perhaps to a lesser extent Chopin and Liszt, whose music often teaches us about ourselves, can give us strength,
Funny that none of the armchair generals posting here even bothered to notice that the video has a major cut - right around 3:22 - painfully noticeable to anyone who really knows this piece. And furthermore, the piece is thoroughly TONAL, not atonal. The work is certainly one of the most well-known masterpieces that employs quartal HARMONY. Suffice to say there is not a singe post here that is written by a person who knows anything of Schoenberg, this piece, conducting, or music in general.
this is one of the only atonal works i can listen to. I liked Schoenbergs earlier works, much more romantic, which is my favorite music, atonal never worked for me.
C'est trop beau ! inquiétant, mouvant, et par moments chaleureux... et magnifiquement interprété par des musiciens (chef compris) qui semblent tous sortir d'un film de Murnau !
cied2p 3 weeks ago
it's tonal
bengenteboa 1 month ago
reminds me alot of tom & jerry
right now im reading his "theory of harmony" while listening to his music
g4ngst4m4n 1 month ago
@g4ngst4m4n Haha, doing the same here! Good luck. ^^
KayinOne 3 weeks ago
Is this really atonal ? was actually kinda delightfull to listen to
rafaelb1026 2 months ago
@rafaelb1026 No, it's in E Major...technically.
MaestroTJS 2 months ago
@Ven1EdCox totally agree
pkConda 2 months ago
wa ne mast
RestInTwoPieces 2 months ago
Vl.I is 1/4 higher tone.
I'm the Ten-no.
tobidasedaisakusen 3 months ago
Art for people who get an ego boost believing they have "elite" tastes - since it's both highly theoretical (more like theological IMO) and inaccessible to the masses. Rather like the decadent Manderins of China, who cultivated a taste for rotten food. Nothing wrong with that, of course, until it becomes a government funding driven clic and dominates "modern art".
Rufus3698 5 months ago 3
@Rufus3698 That is very interesting about the Mandarins of China. Do you have a source for it? I've tried to google for more information by not found any?
flybynight420 2 weeks ago
@avianskies101 ooh that makes sense so this is a later work, when he moved away from serialism i am guessing
jailbreakir 5 months ago
this isnt atonal is it?
jailbreakir 5 months ago
i think this piece is beautiful, just because a piece isnt in a major key doesnt mean it is bad. This piece in particular is quite listenable i think, especially compared to say 12 tone stuff, which i enjoy also but i can see where it would put people off. anyway i like this piece a lot, quite a wonderful performance
OverthrowJacob 5 months ago 2
I like the bit at the start, but sadly it ended at 0:30
AnarchyRatBand 6 months ago 2
@AnarchyRatBand Lol thats tuning you know right?
MrLwliang 6 months ago
this piece is damn hard. it requires a virtuoso Contra player.
brutusbassoon 7 months ago
I don't like it :(
micaciche 7 months ago
@micaciche Most people don't.
AquariaSpirit 6 months ago
Without Schoenberg, prog rock couldn't have existed. For this reason alone, I love him.
RandomJackOfDoom 7 months ago 17
@RandomJackOfDoom nicely said , can you explain , why ? I kinda understand but i can't really state it
rafaelb1026 2 months ago
wonderful!! i like this!
777wallaby777 7 months ago
This is not the whole piece
paolosilv 9 months ago
This is really good
XadaTen 9 months ago
very nice piece of music !
toke300 10 months ago
i luv the melody!!!
only problem is... I don't know what it is :)
212Leyden 10 months ago
The language of the piece, (lexicon, grammatics and syntax) are exactly the same that Haydn's. Only the comlexity changes.
kamvysis 1 year ago
Simultaneously harmonious and acrimonious at the same time. Brilliant.
symphonyxpert 1 year ago
@symphonyxpert
Ha, "Simultaneously" "at the same time". Thou art a dumbass.
CerealKillings 10 months ago
the ones who disliked this are little pieces of a tonal sheet
zleeeee 1 year ago 31
@zleeeee lol, Your comment should be one of the two at the top.
AndrewWLandry 1 year ago
This is a surprising few dislikes for Schoenberg.
resonantdave 1 year ago
@resonantdave
that's probably because mainly fans of his work are watching this lol
Linser22 11 months ago
Never heard this before. Love it! Thanks for posting it, Schoenberg was brilliant, no doubt.
cmontheplane 1 year ago
very nice
TheGringopobre 1 year ago
Shoenberg's pieces are all in the 20th centuary period!!! That is the new period out of all periods!!!
SuperCutiegirl20 1 year ago
Dies ist eine der bedeutensten Kompositionen überhaupt in der Musik.
dralger 1 year ago 2
i think its useful music for movie when action doesn't have an emotional sens, if this guy didnt invent this kind of music i dont think we could see the movies same way thought
TheComposer1979 1 year ago
Expressionist music. Fuck yeah!
Superthumbly 1 year ago
This isn't a 12-tone piece is it?
b0ttomzone 1 year ago
Not yet. It`s Schoenberg`s final tonal piece, after which he used free-atonality for about 5-6 years. Only in his Op. 23, we find first 12-tone series.
DustBGD89 1 year ago
sounds to me like he's using quartal harmonies here...
b0ttomzone 1 year ago
@b0ttomzone
Yes, he does. I analyse that these days. Quartal harmonies came here big time, and it is all one big signal of atonal music. Schoenberg never liked tonality, but when he was writing tonal music, he respected it- in sense, he would give a tonic chord at the end of phrase, or piece,...
DustBGD89 1 year ago
well, i admit i didnt like it. I suggest you to listen to Preliator from Globus :d
SzMilan 1 year ago
i think this is quite cool actually. I love this type of music and appreciate its significance in music nowadays
MatthewPalmer1992 1 year ago
Oh, my god!!!!!! he has the same face of Schoenberg!!!!!!!!!!!! For a moment I believed it was him!
hexatonico 2 years ago 7
@hexatonico hahaha! It's uncanny.
hexachordal 1 year ago
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(reply to speaktoithoratio) Was Adorno a great music theorist?
fraserdaly 2 years ago
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fraserdaly 2 years ago
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speaktoithoratio 2 years ago
boring performance.
zipzappoozoo 2 years ago
not too mention a horrible audio recording of it.
zipzappoozoo 2 years ago
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This is horrible.
jy768 2 years ago
@jy768 pure tu non sei un granchè, però
IViolentiAmorosi 2 years ago 2
I am the furthest thing from a conservative, either politically or aesthetically. And though there were indeed artists of the past, now mostly forgotten, who were hyped way past their innate talent quotient in earlier periods, the culture industry, which decides who succeeds and who doesn't, and pre-determines "what the market will bear", only came into being in the 20th century. I am perfectly willing to concede that this same industry has a foothold in the current classical music scene.
Varese52 2 years ago 5
I agree!
csno1 2 years ago
What happened to the end ??!!?!!
drgabrielsoileau 2 years ago
This is nice! Some of Shoenberg's later music is a little bit to experimental, but this is beautiful. I wish the sound quality was better
drgabrielsoileau 2 years ago
some people like this some dont, some people like death metal some dont
get it?
xfvkemosx 2 years ago
@xfvkemosx: Some people have good taste and some people don't. Some people appreciate things of beauty, some like things that are ugly and vulgar. Some people like things that require talent and skill, some people have no discernment in that area. This isn't a response about Schoenberg. It's just that I see too many people on youtube try to make all art out to be on the same level as if it's a subjective thing. That however isn't the case most of the time.
Elhardt 2 years ago 2
The recording is frustratingly bad - The solos are lost in the background.
MrAkihiros 2 years ago
if only we could just listen
GanjaGabe 2 years ago
Nice Work! My Favorite of pre-Op.11 Schoenberg
NewMusicOvertunes 2 years ago
very beautyful hehe
raticida123456 2 years ago
I always heard Arnold Schoenberg's music was part of the German Expressionist scene.
I love Schoenberg's music, but I also enjoy German Expressionist movies, but not so much their paintings with the exception of Edvard Munch, who was considered a part of it, and El Greco the painter, who supposedly influenced Max Reinhardt. From his troupe sprang Paul Weggener, Conrad Veidt (?) and Max Schreck.
But I had relatives who thought Schoenberg's music just sounded like a symphony warming up.
ysbaddaden2003 2 years ago
that´s just what i thought! just like the warming up. well i think schoenberg was more interested on the inventiveness than in other aspects of music, and that´s not bad at all!
javierleonenriquez 2 years ago
Semi-atonality is awesome.
Icecreamskatin 2 years ago 32
@Icecreamskatin I wouldn't call it semi-atonality. More like frantic tonality.
DarkZekeX 1 year ago 5
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the first 2 chords/notes are the beginning of another brick in the wall by pink floyd
Oerti2 2 years ago
Even if you were musically correct about the chords (which you're not), the correct statement would be that the beginning of Another Brick In The Wall is the beginning of Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony, given the Schoenberg pre-dates the Floyd by many decades. Imbecile.
malthuswasright 2 years ago 5
hahaha typicall those wankermusicians...keep it cool man, dont read to exact and dont try to be a teacher or something, you're just a loser attackin' someone on the internet who was just sayin' some shit and if you feel priviliged now do so i own you in every musical way...
Oerti2 2 years ago
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i agree, spastic music asshole!! :P
jan1365 2 years ago
Even though he is being rude and arrogant, he is making a good point. Schoenberg wrote this about 70 years before Another Brick and the wall.
I think its only fair to credit whoever came first.
iamalittlespy 2 years ago 2
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sounds like indiana jones shit!
Stlee55 2 years ago
epic comment! congrats!
Oerti2 2 years ago
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it is impossible to enjoy schoenberg.
melancholium 2 years ago
It requires a certain mindset. This may be true for some people though.
Scrithe 2 years ago 2
he's just ultra popular in the world of classical for some other reason then uh?
MildyAttractive 2 years ago
If you say it is impossible, then it is impossible. But work with schoenberg, and eventually you will develop an appreciation.
khbgkh 2 years ago
Well that was interesting, now where did I put my Rossini....
billdakelski 2 years ago
Don't ask me.
AthensBenin 2 years ago
I dont get these people who are dissing great composer like Arnold here. He's among the composers whom we have to give our gratitude for having some great music today.
This dude had skill and courage to push the envelope in music field back in da days and now we get to watch how some new artists bends it even more.
And not all composers could get Count Orlok to lead orchestra. ;)
Napashark 2 years ago 40
Count Orlok! jajajajajaja..
johnnynoirman 1 year ago
@Napashark well said
UnexpectedExpressive 1 year ago
@Napashark Totally with you, mate. When people make fun of me for listening to "old" music I always tell them that without the music of the past we wouldn't have the idiols thay worship because music is developed slowly over time. No body says "today I am going to invent this genre of music". I should know. As I am typing this, I am writing an essay on pop music history for college.
Props to you, pal.
musiccritick101 1 year ago 2
@musiccritick101 i have no problem with bethoven and stuff, but this just sounds so.... weird??
ThomasGhs 10 months ago
@Napashark Count Orlok lol.
MrAkihiros 1 year ago
@Napashark, pushing the envelope can be used to push music in the wrong direction too, you know. And that's precisely what Schoenberg did. It wasn't so much courage but egotism that inspired him to do this.
KhagarBalugrak 5 months ago
@KhagarBalugrak That's an entirely subjective opinion. If you don't Schoenberg's stuff, fine. Not all music is for everyone. But why do you need to claim that he was pushing music in the 'wrong' direction? He didn't STOP anyone composing other stuff, just opened new avenues, which some of us are very grateful for. It is odd that, having accused him of egotism, you seem to think that it is your personal taste which defines 'right' and 'wrong' direction for music.
stuartadrianbrown 5 months ago 6
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dabigkid 2 years ago
...I would add, disturbing sounds carefully selected.
aureliomega 2 years ago
I completely agree with you
javierleonenriquez 2 years ago
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I will be short...Schoenberg is not music!!
It is disturbing sounds.
maxhansendk 2 years ago
Schoenberg is the best composer!!!! How dare you speak such treason!
freshhh1994 2 years ago 6
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the people who thumbed you up did obviously not understand your irony.
freaky011 2 years ago
Isn't all music simply chosen sounds?
luquos 2 years ago
I played the second violin part for that years ago. It is supposed to be in E major... but not for long... though there are four sharps at the key signature.
meriadoc077 2 years ago
Atonality did not begin with Schoenberg. Liszt wrote a piece called "Bagatelle sans tonalié". There are Scriabin Sonatas which border on being atonal. Debussy's use of the whole tone scale obscures tonality. All Schoenberg did was try to find a way to compose extended works which employed the chromatic scale in an organized fashion. He regarded what he came up with as within the tradition of the music he loved, i.e. Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner, etc. Every composer must choose his own methods.
Varese52 2 years ago 3
Yes, I studied with one of Schoenberg's last pupils, Richard Hoffamann, who also served as his secretary in LA. Hoffmann is now involved with the Schoenberg Institute in Mödling. Varese did not study with Schoenberg at all. Dissonance or the lack of it does not determine if a piece is in a key. If you listen to the entire piece, you'll hear it ends in E major. It is useless to argue that music should remain static or that tonality and triads should define all musical expression. (continued)
Varese52 2 years ago
Of course, the Beatles were wonderful, no question. But they are not the kind of "loud annoying" rock and rap was referring to. I like a lot of what is called popular music and even admire some classic rock. But I think a lot of what goes on in music today, be it pop or classical, is hype, cult of personality, fame, etc. It has far more to do with these sorts of things than it does with music. In any case, this veers off a bit from the subject at hand, but I hope it helps clarify my point
Varese52 2 years ago 3
As if it were any different at any point in music history. You got no point there. I think you are just conservative.
Baum17 2 years ago
One additional point: Schoenberg has been treated as the bogeyman of music for far too long. Too many people already know what they think about this music before even listening to it, and I find THAT offensive. As someone who was fortunate to study with one of his pupils, I believe Schoenberg to be worthy of my defense and worthy of any serious musician's respect, even if they prefer different methods. One tires of the perpetual ridicule this body of work regularly receives. Listen and learn!
Varese52 2 years ago 7
you learnt under schoneberg's students ?? didnt schonberg outlive them? which one was it? berg or varese or webern (im confused with the latter 2)
there is little point for a key signature here as its extremely dissonant. Am i right in saying its an expressionist piece?
I respect this as a different form of music, but if you listen to earlier periods, they are far superior to anything modern has to offer.
also, iron maiden are another to add onto the list after the Beatles
linktrivium 2 years ago
Undoubtedly, you're correct. But if you consider the context, I was responding to someone who was far more judgmental than I was in this regard, as he referred to this music as being the sort which would drive people crazy. So, I responded in kind. Certainly, no offense was intended to those who strive to avoid this sort of thing. The problem is finding examples of what you're referring to. If you have examples, suggest them. Otherwise, any sort of artistic declaration involves judgment.
Varese52 2 years ago
I think The Beatles are VERY musical and not repetitive. Specifically their later years, 66-70.
BPMontana 2 years ago
No, it's loud, annoying rock and rap music which drive me crazy. Schoenberg may seem chaotic to those unaccustomed to free counterpoint and chromaticism, but he is eminently sane and quite logical, though also very expressive. One thing he never is, however, is numbingly repetitive.
Varese52 2 years ago
I understand you dislike rock and rap music but there are rock and rap musicians who AREN'T repetitive and are very musical. You're just bashing on the cliche. Just trying to broaden your perspective don't be so judgmental.
kosephdrums 2 years ago 5
i can just imagine tom and jerry doin somethin funny to this music lol
dont how people can listen to this music though its to weird and makes you go crazy
stonehed21 2 years ago
I have the score in front of me. The key signature of the piece is E major. The opening fourths in the introduction are not a row, as this NOT a row piece at all. Schoenberg did not come up with row composition until the twenties. This is opus 9, a relatively early work. The first theme, which comes in the upbeat to the fifth measure of the allegro, states the E major key and it is made absolutely clear by bar 7. This is a tonal piece. It is very chromatic and contrapuntal, but tonal.
Varese52 2 years ago 4
Apologies for my typo: I intended to write a "Mannheim recapitulation", as in Mannheim School of composers (circa 1750s, Stamitz, et. al.) in my earlier post.
Varese52 2 years ago
Um, this piece is NOT atonal. It is very definitely tonal, as in, in a key. It is also in a form referred to as portmanteau, in that it is a Sonata form at the same time as being a piece where 4 movements are encapsulated into one continuous movement. Further, it has a Mannhain recap, in that its thematic groups re-appear in reverse order. The key of the piece is E major.
Varese52 2 years ago
It's tonal, but has is writen as a note row and so doesnt have an actual set key
jeah33 2 years ago
I find it very easy to appreciate atonal music. Not sure why. Perhaps my exposure to a lot of extreme music (free jazz, grindcore, noise, and groups like The Residents and Captain Beefheart) helped. It's wonderful stuff.
CodyRicheson 2 years ago
My fav Schonberg...
YuriDante 2 years ago
This music sort of reminds me of old movies. Because the sound would be distorted and have a similar quality that this does.
BTW I like it. Just a reaction I had.
xanthus1 2 years ago
such gorgeous dissonance, it at time reminds me of a romance of the black forest, and contemporaneously the ampullaceous soul of berlin, in its eccentricity and idiosyncratic persona.
poetlaureatte94 2 years ago 2
shut up
khbgkh 2 years ago
Does anyone know of any living composers that write music in this style? WHATEVER you want to call this: post-romantic, extreme chromatic-saturation, leaning towards "atonality".
icytuba 2 years ago
i love this .. you gett a hwole buch of diffrtent feels from one pice i realy enjoyed it and this is the first time for me hearing him .. im learngin bout him and others composers and i thought id check him out .. and im more then glad i did :)
thatsme92 2 years ago
are you serious
Oogliscublidooby 2 years ago
Spectacular!!
BelialO 2 years ago
indeed , its use in serialism iz jst spactauularrz!
PacmansPlayground 2 years ago
Indeed it is my music class chum!!
BelialO 2 years ago
well thx bbz, at leest sum 1 has gd taast in da musik i luv!
PacmansPlayground 2 years ago
yes
PacmansPlayground 2 years ago
except it's not...
Steinway12345 2 years ago
His genius reverberates in lots of modern music. I like his artwork more than his music. I'm more into earlier composers like Schubert. Schoenberg will be more revered in another 100 years.
sonofjabba 3 years ago
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greifenhagen15 2 years ago
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greifenhagen15 2 years ago
I think that Schoenberg is pretty revered right now.
Or, like any influential/controversial artist, there is a huge split over him.
I like Romanticism better as a whole, but I enjoy his music a lot.
emperorIng360 2 years ago
this is dodecaphonic????
Maycown 3 years ago 2
No.
Bolender 3 years ago
Nice to hear something from Schönberg before the time he went nuts
playingchessonmars 3 years ago
Ouch. Take that back right now.
franzliszt370 3 years ago 3
Thanks for the Hungarian. So you're a fan of a Schoenberg, how wonderful.
rastabus 3 years ago
playingchessonmars... seconded wholeheartedly.
simnos1 2 years ago
I agree
2ears4music 3 years ago
I didn't know he had a Sane Period..
sonofjabba 3 years ago
he really didn't.
Steinway12345 3 years ago
Delicious.
ChristianDavis629 3 years ago
It's interesting that many comments here seem to be focused on criticizing this work for being atonal/twelve-tone -- because it is neither; it just makes use of extended tonality. I wonder how differently this might be heard if it were presented as a recently discovered work of Wagner or R Strauss...
p0lyph0ny 3 years ago 13
I don't know.. most of the comments seem to be positive to me. I like this piece - it's just his later stuff that turns me off.
simnos1 2 years ago
Schoenberg in a very Mahlerian state of mind.
gnolti 3 years ago 4
I'm very glad he was.
rastabus 3 years ago
grande Schoenberg!!!
Wuenderbar Schoenberg!!!
Great Schoenberg!!!
Magnifique!!!
gianbirino 3 years ago 2
i believe the proper term is pantonality. schoenberg believed that all twelve tones were equally imporatant to the music.
ThePercussionMaster 3 years ago
wow, GO Schonberg! Kind of reminds me of R. Strauss in some ways. I always think its cool to listen to the early works of composers that many don't get, like the early works of Ives. It is suprising. Very nice piece.
aaldredge 3 years ago 2
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Why did the orchestra bother tuning its instruments?
Balancement 3 years ago
To make sure that they hit the proper notes, naturally.
nerivos 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Really? How could anyone *tell* they were the proper notes?
Balancement 3 years ago
Atonal music is more difficult to understand than tonal music, but that doesn't mean there's no meaning to it. It just takes time to develop the ear for it. I'm just starting to... I think
zesky 3 years ago 8
I would imagine, by looking up the sheet music for this song. Also, having heard it previously would work as well.
nerivos 3 years ago 5
Enjoy it, and stop to talk bullshit, just enjoy it!
stapgnosirve 3 years ago 6
It's not 12 tone. It's not even really atonal, it's just extended harmony. It's based not on tertian(3rd based) harmony like the music from the Common Practice Period; it's based on quartal harmony, which is based on 4ths. Either way, quite the piece!
soulima 3 years ago 7
It's very interesting music, but why would I want to listen to this?
clubsandwedge 3 years ago
it is twelve tone. The row is in the first horn. the ascending fourths.
tsaxfreak 3 years ago
It's not 12 tone. Use your ears!!
McCormackMusic 3 years ago
12 tone is serialistic atonal music. Do you understand how it works? Cause if you haven't studied the score of op. 9, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You can't "use your ears" for atonal music, like you can for tonal music and determine chord structure/progression. It's based off a matrix that is determined by the composer.
tsaxfreak 3 years ago
You can't "use your ears" for atonal music? What do you use?!
Have a listen to his 'variations' or 'five orchestral pieces' (which are 12 tone!) and see if you can "hear" a difference.
And yes I have studied the score, it's in E....
McCormackMusic 3 years ago 3
op. 9 is atonal but NOT serialistic, use your brain!
gvetere 3 years ago
"atonal" is a misnomer.
iwanttowatchsomethin 3 years ago 2
what are you talking about its not atonal, twelve tone, or serialistic, its extended harmony.
chopin8826 3 years ago 7
I find this work interesting, because i think while schoenberg was working on it, he used both ways, tonal and atonal system.
bsalas89 3 years ago
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this is fucking gay as fuck
maidenthorpeDMD 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
this is fucking gay as fuck
maidenthorpeDMD 3 years ago
To me, these harmonies are more than enough to be able to make me feel emotion more than someone like Wagner or Tchaikovsky does. It all depends on how you listen, and if your ears are trained to listen to 12 tone
ThePiano1991 3 years ago
Actually, I don't think this is 12 tone..... It's opus 9. Still early for Schoenberg. It borders on 12 tone, but it's still technically tonal. I performed the webern arrangement of it for violin cello flute clarinet and piano. It's a really funky piece when you get to know it. Still....schoenberg has a tendency to try and write a whole strauss tone poem in every bar and it kind of ticks me off sometimes.
Beeffyviolin 3 years ago
Actually the more important aspect of the work is the development of quartal harmony
ulyssesjj 3 years ago
STRAVINSKY!!
bendingnote 3 years ago
On a second listening, it does seem to have it's merits. Sorry.
terraflux16 3 years ago 6
make us feel any number of emotions, used their powerful imaginations to express themselves within what "I suppose" was considered by Schoenberg and the 2nd Viennese school an outdated tonal system, I find it hard to believe this is where western art music should be heading. This music fails to inspire me and is in my humble opinion irrelevant to the majority of human beings.
terraflux16 3 years ago
Wow. This is so romantic and post-wagnerian, some of his more daring pieces might actually make you ears bleed.
GreggaryPeccary 3 years ago
Does anyone actually enjoy listening to this music? It sounds to me like the composer is unable to decide what he wants to convey and is just kind of absent mindedly moving from one insignificant flight of fancy to another. I could be wrong but I find it hard to believe that after great geniuses like Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Handel, Scarlatti, and perhaps to a lesser extent Chopin and Liszt, whose music often teaches us about ourselves, can give us strength,
terraflux16 3 years ago
Schoenberg was a master of tonal harmony before he went serialist. in his own words, "I was a conservative forced to become a revolutionary"
Userdoe1560 4 years ago 3
Funny that none of the armchair generals posting here even bothered to notice that the video has a major cut - right around 3:22 - painfully noticeable to anyone who really knows this piece. And furthermore, the piece is thoroughly TONAL, not atonal. The work is certainly one of the most well-known masterpieces that employs quartal HARMONY. Suffice to say there is not a singe post here that is written by a person who knows anything of Schoenberg, this piece, conducting, or music in general.
Biomusicologist1 4 years ago 6
Biomusicologist1 -- No need to be snobbish. Civility is more important than intellectualism.
Anyway, I never cared much for Schoenberg's early Wagnerian music, but this is a wonderful post. Thank you very much for sharing it.
curleysloth 4 years ago 3
this is one of the only atonal works i can listen to. I liked Schoenbergs earlier works, much more romantic, which is my favorite music, atonal never worked for me.
achinghunger15 4 years ago