The world is so unfair, christians kill 3000 muslims and no serious action is taken, but when muslims kill 3000 americans you get a war on terror and an invasion of afghanistan, both of which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people
@caro2486 if the Arabs didnt try and destroy Israel in 1948 then in 67 then again in 73 they wouldnt of been refugee camps in the first place and u wouldnt of had all these displaced people seeking refuge in other countries, you think the Israelis are out to destroy and kill all there Arab neighbours?? there have been killings by both sides and just as terrible as each other. so come back when you do a little bit of research and dont form a conclusion because of 1 video u watched.
both israelis and palestinians cared less , if lebanese are being killed
Bashir came to defend his own poeple and country after many massacres on leb christians done palestinians that started in 69 ( 14 years b4 sabra and shatila )
200000 lebanese christians died of OTHERS WAR on our land
@captain2ahab Read more on the history of the final solution and the Madagascar plan. The original plan wasn't to kill all European Jews, but to send them to Madagascar. The Muslims were in talks with Hitler. And everyone committed the holocaust, everyone who turned a blind eye.
Muslims are "poor me" "look at how bad we are treated" "boo hoo" cry cry. They won't the whole world to feel sorry for them. Yet they deny that Jews were murdered in great numbers in the holocaust. They are selfish people.
@atrophyfilms2012 sorry, pal but you are retarded. by the way, christians committed the holocaust, not muslims....and talking about cry cry; everyday i have to see some holocaust-shit in television, frankly spoken, i cannot see it anymore
It annoys me that, when Arabs and Muslims are persecuted, it is made out to be the greatest atrocity of all time. Yet most fundamentalist Muslims deny the holocaust. So if it happened to a Muslim, it was a war crime; if it happened to a Jew, the Jew made it up.
@Hatimzaki84 But again, the fighting between Palestinians and Israelis is WASTEFUL and STUPID. Here are two groups of people that really need to work together rather than against each other.....I for one feel that the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians do in fact WANT peace - but the extremists continue to fight that (the militant/Hassidic Jews vs the Islamic militants) and cause trouble for everyone.
@Hatimzaki84 But I will say again - there have been more Israeli movies condemning the violence than any movie done by Muslims - why is that? Movies done with Muslim money always always ALWAYS show everything one sided with the Israelis (or Jews in general - what did you say about generalizing???) being monsters - basically showing Jews as inhuman THINGS that are to be exterminated (isn't that in the Koran? - just asking.....).
@Hatimzaki84 Chechan or not they were still MUSLIM. And no I did not mean the Beslan Massacre but rather the massacre depicted in "Waltz with Bashir".
But anyway I agree with you - the Palestinians and Israelis should NOT be fighting each other but should actually IMO JOIN FORCES and live in Israel as ONE NATION.
Im a catholic with a Jewish background and if you put me next to a Palestinian you wouldn't know the difference (I think that was even shown on "Family Guy")
@Hatimzaki84 The track record for Muslims re: crimes against humanity FAR outweigh ANY that the West has done and also ANY that Israel has done.
And again, it took an Israeli director to make this film. I have yet to see any Muslim condemn the 9/11 attacks or any other attacks against Western Civilization/Laws.
Not one. Lets not forget the BESLAN SCHOOL MASSACRE - shall we?
and again, please remember that the above crime was done by Palestinians - not Israelis.......
I am not talking about the terrible crimes that the Israelis have done - I am talking about atonement.
You say you are a Muslim - does it not say again and again and AGAIN in the Koran that the "infidels" and in particular the Jews are to be "terrorized" and destroyed - and for "true believers" to not feel bad for the "infidel" due to them not being the same as "true believers"?
i feel realy sry and ashamed too that this history and these events didnt have the same attention and propaganda like 11 september event ,inspite of the huge diffrence in victoms !!! it reaches that i dont know its events even though i am a muslim egyptian !!! Maybe bec we arent so good in probagandas :(
and i am happy but a little bit ashamed that such film came from an israilian director.
when this movie faded to black i saw my own reflection on the screen... It was like it was the last words in this movie say: look what mankind has done! and look! this could happen to you...
I remeber ones seeing this with my class at school. And I remeber hating each and everyone of freinds, for laughing at the end... ungrateful scums! no respect for death and people in sorrow!!!
yeah, her too. I hoped they found it funny, 'cause it just seems so unreal that humans could have ever caused so much pain and misery. but I don't think that's why...I remember them laughing at a dead man, saying 'you can lie dead in such a weird position' and then I just snapped. I don't remember what happened I just remember that I was REALLY angry, and that they got kinda scared of me.. And then i was send outside the door... soooo...I don't think they'll ever do it again:)
@netwt42oz I've shown this movie to young college classes too -- usually I don't get laughter because they are taking fairly stern cues from me that there is nothing to laugh at, but I do get people looking everywhere but at the screen, obviously put out with me for making them watch it and wondering why they have to. Some, not all. Not every young person knows what to do with the information or the message psychologically -- we try to work toward it in discussion.
@manthasagittarius1 I actually watched this in with my college humanities class but it was a homework assignment so i didnt see the other kids faces. as i watched i just tried to take it all in the first time, then i watched it again twice to work on my assignment
@netwt42oz I think watching this film three times in succession is a labor of -- I don't know, social responsibility, maybe, but it's heavy on you. Somebody down on these comments ha said "war is no videogame," but the truth is even war videogames are not just games to the brain. Witnessing this history, even as an animated representation, is heavy on a person.
According to Robert Fisk in his book "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East", pp.484,488–489, Israeli defence minister at that time Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan met with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and telling them the PLO fighters were responsible for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel. This is the core information that was neglected/distorted in this movie.
Ok wait! So Bashir standing there, he killed them right?? I know from part two of this mobie that his friend said that peoples brain will not want to remember something that bad happened. But im pretty sure that Bashir is part of the massacre but why? Is he there to kill them or protecting people? I understand much of this movie but i dont actually get the ending.
@XxTehMuffinKidxX no. bashir was killed 2 days before the massacre, and one month after he was elected president of lebanon. His militia members were murderously angry and went to the palestinian camp to take revenge.
@XxTehMuffinKidxX No, he watched. His own parents were massacred by the Nazis and instead of living by the "never again" credo that that inspired he watched. That's why he dissociated from the event.
War, Voilence, military and ofc politicians sux! But would ur behavior have been different?...So keep in Mind: Never act like fucking machines... and tell this to the other 7 billions HumanBeings before it is too late.
Soo much pain in the voices of the victims and on TV u don't even give a shit on those massacre news. U just think: 'well, there u kill each other stupid Aliens' and in the next second ur mind has other everyday problems.
Great movie. Painful Truth. War is no videogame...
wow. the way the animation moves into actual footage really helps you understand the meaning of diassociative memory. because its animation it doesnt feel quite real but when you see the real people it feels like you are there like it all came back to you.
wow, very good film. Extremely powerful when it switches to real footage. Really catches you off guard and makes you realize the consequences of these events while you were only watching them animated before.
@raisinsunn In fairness the film does display the negligence of Israeli forces and the blatant disregard for human life shown by Ariel Sharon. The blood of at least 800 Palestinian people are on the hands of the Israeli men who were there at Sabra and Shatalia.
Very well made film. Shame about the shitty youtube quality.
@AlterEgoMickeh Ok thats like saying the ISAF forces are responsible for civillians killed by the afghan army because they are there and in charge. Its easy to say these things thousands of miles away from conflict, where you are in your cozy house staring at your new computer, playing video games and leaving ignorant comments based on consequentialsim. If they did this and these people were in charge then these people are responsible. The world doesnt work like that. Not everything is so easy.
@mtldrmr Fog of war. It's not so cut and dried, things happen. Funny if it had been Arab/Muslim against Arab/Muslim the perpetrators would have considered them to be just good strong Muslims as in Black September. Bedou logic. Like you say, from a great distance, and in the cloistered West with its mindset which can't fathom the dynamics, the cultures and even the causes of the reason Israel had to go into into Lebanon, it's so easy to demonize Israel. So many experts, so little understanding.
@dallas998@mtldrmr yeah it's easy to dismiss it as "complex". you can do it if you want. the point of the movie though was seemingly to look past the "complexity" and to probe what actually happened. and indeed, i think folman blamed himself for being a small part of it.
ironic too, that you criticise someone for making armchair assessments while you do the same.
@JimNebuchanezzar What I refer to are the comments made by those who have no experience or direct connection to the region. 99% of commenters have nothing but MSM comments to go on. All I see is spin, and anyone who believes in violent solutions to the ME problems is not looking deep enough or is brainwashed. I personally am very sad to see so much angst, hatred and needless violence, which surely will not work out well for anyone. Anyone calling for genocide against the other is wrong. Study.
@dallas998 The person you responded to wasn't calling for genocide (or violent solutions). They stated that a) Sharon shows disregard for life; b) IDF's present at the massacre were, to some degree, complicit by facilitating it. and that second point is the same one made by folman. it's not hatred - it's apportioning blame where people figure it belongs.
@JimNebuchanezzar It is important to apportion blame where it belongs. However, I have never heard anyone take Jordan to task for Black September and the deaths of 10,000 Palestinians. Neither have I heard anyone call Lebanon out to task for the reasons Israel went there in the first place. It certainly was not for conquest of territory. Let's apportion blame to all sides for a change.
@dallas998 it's also important to apportion blame proportionately, and reasonably. yeah lebanon, broadly conceived, probably has a small amount of blame to take for this war. i think that's a logical conclusion to draw from the film (even ari was complicit in the massacre, etc.). but the point is that it's small, compared to the role the IDF plays in perpetuating (or initiating) misery in the ME generally.
@JimNebuchanezzar Policies of Israel sometimes suck. It's a tough neighborhood however. Pals' mandate is the death of Israel. Few leaders have the guts to call the PA out on its incitement, brainwashing kids, determination NOT to negotiate. PA and Hamas charters call for elimination of Israel. A dirty little not-so-secret that is completely ignored, as well as the million Mizrahim who were expelled from Arab countries and quietly absorbed into Israel. The Pals want it both ways - also Judenrien.
@dallas998 so you've gone from "it's complex", to what seems to consist wholly of "Palestine is at fault." the nuance and complexity you originally fought for seems to have been thrown out the window.
in any case, innocent civillians ought to be off-limits, and in this case, the IDF partially facilitated their massacre (and they knew of this; as both noam chomsky and carmi cna'an have stated). hence, your original post was out-of-line.
@JimNebuchanezzar It is complex in that it is multilayered, and yet it is also simple - it's a holy war. Islam cannot allow any lands conquered to be returned to the previous owners.
Do you really think that Israel goes after innocent civilians? Do you know any Israelis?
Let's not forget that the biggest massacre of Palestinians was, like I earlier mentioned, done by Jordan, and yet no one says a word.
The hypocrisy is breathtaking! (not yours, but the "experts" including Chomsky).
@dallas998 its simple when it suits your purposes, and it's complex when someone is arguing against you.
i never stated that the IDF went after innocent civillians (strawman). i said they facilitated the massacre - in this case, with flares and by siding with the phalangists. it's pretty minor compared to pulling the trigger, yeah, but it's a part none the less (and incidentally, this small part drives the narrative, and Folman's own trauma).
@JimNebuchanezzar Nasrallah hopes they will all gather in Israel so they won't have to hunt them down worldwide. THIS is the kind of crap against which Israel must defend itself.
Think about the meaning of Nakba Day. This is not about any of the conflicts subsequent to 1948 - this is about Israel's existence. If you realize that and are still pro-Arab then you are in favor of completing what Hitler could not finish. I am amazed that the lessons of WW2 have been forgotten within one generation.
@dallas998 also, the ME situation is incredibly well reported on the internet and in 'MSM', and anyone who cares enough to look (and debate on youtube) can find enough facts - as im sure 99% of people here have done to some degree.
my main problem here remains that you want to dismiss it as "complex", which in the end, is going to result in no good. better to debate the issue than to dismiss it.
and btw, yeah it's easy to demonise israel. very easy. there's probably a reason for that...
This is not about land, this is about war and how both sides kill people, how both ends suffer. How we treat people like waste, we are not disposable, we are human beings, all of us, and fighting each other or arguing about it makes us blind.
Do onto others what you would have done onto you. All the Jews who support whats going on in Palestine today must support what went on in Auschwitz (and other ) in WW2. its the same thing just deferent people, have you forgotten you that 6million Jews must have been within Hitlers reach( i.e near Germany not in a land of thier own!)? its disgusting no ones right to do anything should cost innocent lives. how ever peace, love and respect to those Jews(+everyone) who oppose this monstrosity. V
This is a brilliant documentary. But I do not respect it at all, because the Israelis seems to look like heroes who only killed innocent people by "mistake". We all know it isnt true, and that Israel has always been the opressor. and thank god most people know that and dont believe this propaganda bullshit.
@YanivS86 Im sorry to disappont you but it really does. My mother and father lived in Palestinian refugee camps in the war, and they have witnessed the brutallity of the Israelis. So when they make songs in the movie about how they "accidently" killed civilians, is simply utter bullshit, let alone all the assasintations they commited during the war which they never talked about. Many things has been left out. Israel was just as responisble for the Massacre as the Phalanges.
after reading declarations such as "Israel has always been the oppressor " from you, i would seriously doubt your objectiveness, on the same hand i can tell you that as a former idf soldier i had strict instructions not to aim on civilians..
the FACTS are that the massacre in Sabra& Shatila was preformed by the Lebanese Christian Phalanges, Israel's blame is only for not stopping them on time, as it was presented. not as evil as u'd like to see us, but certainly not heroes.
@YanivS86 If you know history you will know who the opressor is, it is certainly not the Palestinians who has stolen a country. As a former IDF soldier, your were to invade a country, even if you lets say "had strict instructions not to aim at civilians" many of you certainly didnt give a damn. THE FACTS are that the Sabra and shatila massavcre was comitted by phalanges, yep true. BUT Israel are just as responsible cause you orderered the massacre and knew what was going on.
after reading that comment by you i seriously doubt your history knowledge. no, israel has not "always been the oppressors" nor it has "stolen a country"
even the Arab media states that the Arab nations rejected the two states solution and chose war over it.
they could not bare the existence of a Jewish state in what they have falsely defined as "their land" even though it was occupied by different rulers for ages, and never consisted any kind of Palestinian state in it.
@YanivS86 When Palestinians, or "arab" if you like the word better, lived in Palestine, they owned almost 90 percent of the land. The UN decided to give you 56 percent. Who would accept that????
they were living under British occupied land, but even the Arab Landlords from around the area who did own lands, sold it by quantities to the Jews.. even Transjordan's king abdullah wrote: "It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping "
@YanivS86 As much as the arabs sold the land, jews stole much of it too. You cant deny that you didnt steal anything at all cause thats a pure lie. The arabs were offered 44 percent of the land, go learn history before to speak. Jews were offered 56 percent, even if they only owned 10 percent of the land.
even if the Jews did got exactly 56% of the land in the partition plan. the Arab nations respond to it has made the plan to be expired. by that i mean that the Arab nations opened a war against the new Jewish state , encouraging the Arabs living in Palestine to desert their homes and by that to LOSE their lands, calling to "drive the jews into the sea" (syrian general Fawzi al-Qawukji) without considering the consequences, they have made the plan irrelevant
October 2, 1948, the London Economist reported, in an eyewitness account of the flight of Haifa's Arabs: "There is little doubt that the most potent of the factors [in the flight] were the announcements made over the air by the Arab Higher Executive urging all Arabs in Haifa to quit ... And it was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."
the only thing you forget to mention is what victory meant for the Arabs:
Fawzi al-Qawukji,1947 "We will murder, wreck & ruin everything in our way"; "we...will tear the hearts from the hateful Jews & trample them into the dust,"
April 23, 1948 Jamal Husseini, acting chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee (AHC), told "The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce ... They preferred to abandon their homes, belongings and everything they possesse.
@YanivS86 There are plenty other quotes from zionist about arabs, but there is no need to take them up. If your land was occupied by murderers then you would threaten about ruin and kill everything as well. Just like jews hate the Nazis, arabs hate zionists. We just wont go to China and blame kill their people, and start with propaganda like "they are the zionists who killed palestinians", thats exactly what you did to the palestinians, blaming all Hitlers murder on Al husseini haha.
looking at the pro-Palestine protesters in the world stating that "Israel has always been the oppressors" , it actually seems exactly like what they are doing..
don't twist my words- no one blamed "all Hitlers murder on Al husseini" BUT it is a known fact that he was a Nazi , e.g- he held devisions of Nazi SS troops, such as the Waffen-
SS Handsar Division that he himself recruited.
as well he lead Arabs to massacre Jews living in Hebron at 1929
(cont) At the Nuremberg Trials in July 1946,Nazi war criminal Dieter Wisliceny testified:
"The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz."
@YanivS86 Yep its documented in your Irgun and Haganah propaganda ;) Like I said before. I will never believe any jewish propaganda, stick to the facts dude we all know it isnt true. Your terrorist groups has been planning to occupy Palestine long before 1948 and the UN resolutuion. Thats why jews immigrated there from the 1800´s, you should have gone to germany ;)
And Like I said before, Palestinian people are free, no jordanian, no egyptian are ever going to have a territory in Palestine.
off course you'll deny whatever prove that comes to you since you decided already that Israel has always been the oppressors"
But, unfortunately for you it was actually documented in Nuremberg trial records of July 46 so the facts speak for them selves.
so do the datum about the Arabs from neighboring countries migrating to the land - e.g - , Tewfik Bey El Hurani ,Syrian governor , admitted at 1934 that within a few months over 30,000 syrians had moved to Palestine.
you wrote: "Palestinian people are free, no jordanian, no egyptian are ever going to have a territory in Palestine"
when were they free?? excuse me for shattering your myth, but Jordan and Egypt has already controlled the west bank, and Gaza prior to 1967, yet no suicide attacks were taking place against them at the time..
wonder why?
maybe because : ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937
what a surprise! :) he also uses your favorite tactic : blame it all on the Zionist! ...
@YanivS86 Again, again, again, you use semi truths and turn them all to zionist propaganda. Its so typical, because how else could you justify the murder and ethnic cleansing of a whole civilian population? I would have done the same If I was you ;) It really doesnt matter about the name Palestine, what matters is that people has been living there for centuries, you are european racists who conquered the land by violence and by gaining sympathy from countries because of the holocaust.
reading your hateful comments and than being accused by you of any sort of propaganda is a Paradox!!
but, since it also makes me laugh, i won't hold it against you. :)
i just wonder why you keep ignoring facts, such as: like some Jews did, Arabs were migrating to that land which was conquered by many form rulers ( Arabs among them),yet, never consisted any palestinian state in it. therefor, CHOOSING war over the 2 states solution, was nothing but a pathetic own goal.
@YanivS86 It really wasnt. 56 percent of the land was never fair, you barely desurved 20. The name of the land was never important, but the people of the land is. You cant justify jewish immigration to 56 percent of the land, just because Hitler and the germans killed you. Its all semi truth you are coming with, arabs immigrating or not, it really doesnt matter, the fact is that people has been living there and you stole their country and still are doing today.
it was not your land! also not for you to decide who gets what.. it was a no man's land, you have decided to decline the two states solution and go to war in order to exterminate Israel. if you want to live in peace with the Jewish state you could of do so long ago , and you still can. but unfortunately I'm not sure if you want peace as long as Israel is around.
don't forget the most important fact! - the Arabs who chose to stay in the land during the war, instead of listening to the Arab Nations threats to desert their homes so the Arab armies can take them back along with all the land, are still living in Israel, and enjoying the same rights as i do as an Israeli citizen...
@YanivS86 Of course they will LOL. I have friends who are arabs and live as Israeli citizens, trust me they are second class citizens. Everybody hopes you someday will lose a big war, like the germans did. In most peoples eyes Israel is a terrorist state, and people are starting to see the truth. More and more countries has been recognizing a Palestinian state, so if you keep occupying and someday you are left alone and defensless, you will regret why you didnt give some of the land back.
its funny that you tell me about your friends living in Israel and their testimonies. because I'm actually living in Israel and also, i have Arab friends. i work with them in the same places, study with them at the university, go to the same restaurants and pubs as they do, and hold the exact same i.d that they have.in short- they get the exact same rights as i do.
yet, people like you are insisting to demonise Israel and are trying to make as many people as possible to hate it.
@YanivS86 I live in Denmark, and have danish friends, we play football, go to pubs and all the other stuff you do with the arabs. Does that mean I feel home? No. Every minority doesnt feel home, thats just how it is.
We can keep discussing the same things over and over again, you have an extremist zionist view on the issue, and you can say the same thing about me because Im saying you should withdraw from the westbank, and rip down the walls. We both made our points, lets just end it here.
so, in your eyes, I'm an extremist because i care for the life of Israeli civilians (you know, the wall did not exist before the suicide bombing took place)
yet, you failed to detect why r u an extremist in my eyes. not because what you think, but because u blamed Israel for things u don't have any prove about, referred to whatever datum that was brought towards you as "Jewish propaganda"(even if it was Nuremberg trials records) because you are insisting to demonise a country!
@YanivS86 You are an extremist because you ONLY care about the Israeli civilians, even though the Palestinians have suffered a whole lot more and got their country taken away from them. We dont need to discuss it, lets just end it here. Zionism and rights of the Palestinian people never get along, so might as well end it here.
the Palestinian people lost their 1st opportunity to have a state due to an act of war, also because of Arab nationalism aggressiveness. so its not as simple as you try to make it look, yet, in your camping to de-legitimise Israel you will accuse ONLY us in whatever comes to your mind, say that "Israel was always the aggressors".
the Palestinians could of have a state many times if they would lay down their weapons. but I'm not sure they want it as long as Israel is on the map.
quote @Khaled4life : "you will regret why you didn't give some of the land back"
im sorry to contradict your theory, but somehow, we already gave some of the land back, and surprisingly , that is exactly the thing that we're regreting about.
@YanivS86 Before the 1948 arab/israeli war, their was an ethnic cleansing operation taking place. You cant make an excuse of how you stole the land and steal are stealing today. I´ve never said that the arabs didnt lose the war, and never claimed full lands to Palestine and an extermination of jews. All Im saying is that if you really want justice, Israel should leave all occupied territories from the 1967 border. Simple, if your mind wasnt so propagandist.
stole land from who? from the British who left it? maybe from the Turks prior to them? or was it from Syria who claim for the land called palestine to be a part of southern Syria.
but since u were clear about the 1967 borders there shouldn't be any problems :
we should return Gaza to Egypt , even though they refused to take it back. the west bank and east Jerusalem to Jordan, although they forbid the Jews from getting to the western wall.
@YanivS86 There is no such things as returning Gaza to egypt or the west bank to jordan. The Palestinians are free people now, they will fight whoever, if Jordanian and Egyptians will claim those lands, suicide bombers will be thrown into their countries as well.
hence, the Arab nations choice of war over the 50% land offered to them in the partition plan,and by that refusing to the possibility of having a Palestinian sovereign state for the 1st time of human history. was nothing but an act of greed: September 6, 1948, the Beirut Daily:
"The fact that there are those refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously..."
@YanivS86 Let me give you an example of your responsibility on the massacre: Lets say I want to steal something right? But instead of doing it, I can just call someone to do it for me, instead of doing it myself. Now am I responsible? Absolutely. Will I get the same sentence as the one who did steal? Absolutely.... Unless Im a powerfull person who can deny allegations, even if the once who stole certainly said I was the brain behind it, the court system will stick to my case.
your example shows nothing, because the datum you provided are false!
Israel did not ordered the massacres.
we had control over the area, but not over the Maronite Phalanges, who committed the butchering as a vengeance over the assassination of their leader ( some will say idol), Bashir Gemayel.
Israel's blame is for not preventing the massacres, i wouldn't say its the same as actually committing them.
Israel had no interests what so ever for those massacres to take place.
@YanivS86 You are an IDF soldier, so of course you have to state something else. Your history is based on Propaganda from your terrorist organizations such as the Irgun and Haganah, so there is no point in arguing with someone who has an illusion of knowledge. But for arguments sake, Israel had the control of the area= they know what is happening and know who goes in and out. Ariel Sharon and Ellie hobeika (Who was assasinated by Israel) ordered the massacre.
i brought the idf soldier argument on the same hand that you brought your parents argument. only to show how un-objective it may sound.. therefor, non relevant in the current argument since we both "trust" each other so much.
even though Sharon ordering the massacre will fit perfectly with your anti- Israel agenda (although there was no interest what so ever for a thing like that to happen). you have no prove for that datum, in other words, you have made it up.. .
@YanivS86 Of course I do not have enough prove to make the case clear about Ariel sharon, because he killed Ellie hobeika lol. He was just about to make Sharon a war criminal, before they assasinated him. It is something I have to believe, cause if you werent affraid of anything you wouldnt have killed Hobeika.
exactly the same as it was with hariri's assassination..
its not that you dont have enough prove, is that you don't have any prove at all.. but off course, that it all should be very clear to you since you decided that "Israel has always been the oppressors"
that's why you have decided that Israel has murdered Hobeika (even though celebratory gunfire was reported in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon after Hobeika's death)
but do you have any prove??? well off course not..
@YanivS86 Ellie Hobeika assasination was something everybody was happy about, it was a killing of a murderer. But people found out pretty quickly the consequences of his death, means that Israel will be free from all charges. Who else would have killed him? If it was Sharon who was killed, you would have found the murderer in 2 minutes but when Israel commits crimes, they are very smart, and leaves very little proof. The evidence is all there, but unfortunately not enough to cement it.
that was another accusing comment by your "demonising-Israel" agenda, which relays on nothing but blank accusations and "what if" theories.
"the evidence is all there" well, unless "there" means your hateful mind, than its not anywhere.. the fact that his assassination was something every body was happy about, as u wrote, just proves that you'll jump to conclusions in order to put the blame on Israel even if u have no evidence, that you are biased.
now, if you define the Irgun and haganah as terrorist orginisations , don't forget to mention the other side that they were struggling against- Nazi ss commander Haj Amin Al Husseny who ordered massacres of jews throughout the land in 1920, 1921, 1929, or 1936, just for example .
@YanivS86 Yep pull the Husseini card as usual just as your propaganda machines made you believe. Al husseinis country was under british occupation who also was the enemy of Germany. "my enemies enemy is my friend" as they say. There were a couple of riots where both arabs and jews were killed. What an idiot you are for gods sake. Germany killed 6 million jews and you seem to turn it around and blame the arabs because of riots over the jews taking over the country? You should have gone to germany
"Al Husseunis country was under British occupation" here's a news flash for you genius, Al husseini was appointed to be mufti by the British in 1921! could it be that he made them to be his enemies by betrayal?! are you sure it was his land??
its proved and documented that the mufti collaborated with the Nazi's and held devisions in the SS. isn't it ironic that you blame me for "pulling the husseini card" while you did just the same by talking about his enemies at the time?!
@YanivS86 True that al Husseini was appointed mufti by the british, but he still coleborated with the Germans in hopes to eliminate the british from his land and have a free Palestinian state. Do you think the Palestinians liked the british? LOL. There is no such thing as betrayal when it comes to occupation.
considering that the British, whom Al husseyni betrayed on, allowed Arab migration ( yes migration!) so freely into the land.. so yes, i would expect the Arabs migrating there to like them.
British Prime Minister Winston Churchill 1939 : "far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population"
@YanivS86 LMAO. The british allowed jewish immigration from the 1800´s to 1948. That was the result of the arab revolt in Palestine from 1936-1939, where both british and jews were killed. What a propagandist you are, making look like Al Husseini was a british supporter when most of the fights before 1948 was against the british. If you cant acknowledge the 1967 border, then its fine, that shows what kind of zionist extremist you are. There is no need discussing with an IDF zionist murderer.
@Khaled4life blaming your own diversion tactics on me won't work- nor will trying to demonise me as a you do to Israel in generlal- your favorite pathetic tactic perhaps?
the facts speak for them selves- the 1967 borders shows that Gaza was an Egyptian territory,east Jerusalem and the west bank were Jordanian.
-the British gov appointed Al Husseini to be mufty , so even though he did not supported them, you can clearly see he knew how to enjoy their grace and than stab them in the back.
so if not acknowledging the 67 borders is making me a Zionist extremist ( even though i did) , what does not acknowledging al Husseini being a Nazi and the Arab migration to the no man's land makes you?!?! ... by your logic off course, which i must say, is not my cup of tea.
@YanivS86 Yep, as long as you dont believe in a Palestinian state and supports the occupation of the west bank and the Gaza strip makes you a zionist extremist. Because its not your land, and never has been. You just stole most of it, now they want some of it back. Simple issue if you ask me. But hey, keep blaming Al husseini, thank god most people know the truth and arent as propaganda minded as you are. You should listen to your new historians as Ilan Pape ;)
are you sure they want it back? i mean, they did had opportunities to have a sovereign state in the land, yet somehow, they always seems to turn it on the edge and blame it on israel, are you sure you guys want a state as long Israel is around??
i told u to stop blaming me at using your own tactics. i don't know anyone who's blame it all on all husseini, other than stating a fact that he was a Nazi, BUT, i do know some one who's blaming it all on Israel and "Jewish propaganda"
@YanivS86 If I was completely onesided as you claim, I would have demanded all of Palestine back to its people, and wanted you to go back to europe. But like I´ve always said, give the 1967 borders, stop killing and occupying land then I wont care anymore. As long as you keep justifying the killing and the occupation and the opressing in the west bank and gaza, then its definately not me who is biased. Just keep acting like Nazis and apartheid racists, the world will turn around you some day.
because of many declarations such as the one from Arafat i brought up.and because since we already got out of Gaza and somehow, unlike your claim , they seemed to care even more about destroying us.. we wont give you territories so fastly, not without the assurance of our own civilians security.
don't expect us to trust you as long as you make calls for our destruction. that's an absurd.
What horrifies me about this film, the massacre and so on, is that we just don't learn. All nations have been guilty of the same thing at one time or another. The British in India, the Germans in WW2, The Soviets in WW2, The US in Vietnam and (possibly) Iraq/Afghanistan, no country has clean hands, and until we learn to see fault in ourselves with as much vigous as we look for it in others, nothing will change.
This reminds me of the pervious scene where the psychologist tells the of the man who saw the entire war as a fantastic film until his "camera" broke. I think that's exactly what the director was trying to imply; that we watched the entire film thinking it was a fantastic cartoon until the reality ultimately shatters our perception on war.
They teach us about the Holocaust, Stalin, Hiroshima and Cambodia, but why not Nanking, Unit 731, This War, Bosnia and Serbia, the British test gassing of Australians or Mao? I know this stuff above from TV Tropes and it's not and educational site! I feel more of betrayed than anything. :(
The film was a build up to this last scene, and from here the audience is just sicken with the horrors of war.
Then to see Ari's face with a disturbed look goes back to what he said in the beginning of the film. "Maybe I'll discover things I don't want to know about myself." and how he didn't have flashbacks of Lebanon> It seems that he's going to remember this for the rest of his life now.
I hope everyone knows that this was ACTUAL footage from the sabra and shatila massacre and it wasn't just made for the film. Its such a tragedy, and its terrible, I don't know how someone could watch this and not be moved by this.
145x, no, i cannot contemplate from your perspective. it doesn't matter- killing innocent civilians CANNOT in any way be justified- under any circumstance. if a man kills my family, i do not go out and kill his- it makes me a murderer just as well.
it shows to me, jews has not learend out of there history . exactly what have been done to them in germany they are doing that to others and it is same brutal as the holocaust was....
" problems can be solved without war on unarmed humans, this is nothing but cowardliness...."
To know why this took place research Damour and it will give you a glimpse of why it happened. It is not right to kill women and children but you can't understand until your family dies by the PLO and all what you think about is revenge. You can't understand it while living in Paris, Berlin, London, New York, etc.
War is hell but when in hell you have to deal with it. I was there.
From 1:13 to the closing of the film when the film credits begin to roll is haunting and chilling, you're just speechless> Another disturbing event that this ending reminds me of and made be speech less was watching "Hotel Rwanda" (2005).
a VERY POWERFUL FILM, One of the Best Films of 2008
and that the film director/writer to have been a Lebanon War veteran and for it to be in animation and be documentary makes it even more brilliant!
hey I was wondering at the end you see Ari and other guy guarding a CP, are they stopping the Muslims from walking across or shoot them? please reply...
@M0D3RNDUD3 I was thinking the same thing too, I mean did Ari (in this story) had a hand in murdering these Lebanon families (this is unlikely, just a theory). Or did he just arrive and was at horror at what has happen. Either way, when it closes in on him with this troubled expression on his face and the screaming can be heard, its just sends chills down my spine.
It's not the fucken isrealis who support the diamond trade or the crimes they've committed... it's a select number of people who did who happened to be israeli. This shouldn't gobble and include the whole israeli population.
Wonderful film. Thanks a million for posting this. Definately a must-see.
Triste pero como dice Folman en la cinta comentada, las imagenes dejan de ser dibujos y cortes y se hacen reales, como los hechos... es una parte cruel pero es la realidad y, es creo yo, el fin de la cinta...mostrarnos el recuerdo real.
The world is so unfair, christians kill 3000 muslims and no serious action is taken, but when muslims kill 3000 americans you get a war on terror and an invasion of afghanistan, both of which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people
FAKIH67 4 days ago
i just hate hypocrisy
and apparently israelis from this movie appears to be so hypocrite
because you are pointing at a massacre that happened in lebanon and ignoring the reasons behind
isn't YOU israelis who kicked those palestinians out of israel?
how many palestinians YOU ARE KILLING EVERYDAY ?
i was starting to beleive that israelis are good people
now i'm sure that you are more evil than the evil itself
because only evil kills the victim and cry on its body like YOU
caro2486 3 weeks ago
@caro2486 if the Arabs didnt try and destroy Israel in 1948 then in 67 then again in 73 they wouldnt of been refugee camps in the first place and u wouldnt of had all these displaced people seeking refuge in other countries, you think the Israelis are out to destroy and kill all there Arab neighbours?? there have been killings by both sides and just as terrible as each other. so come back when you do a little bit of research and dont form a conclusion because of 1 video u watched.
goldhippie 1 week ago
@goldhippie
i am saying clearly that lebanese are only victims of the israeli -palestinian war
palestinian refugees in lebanon in 69 started to send rockets to israel from lebanon
and cared less when israelis answered with destroying the lebanese airport and killing 1000s of lebanese innocents
caro2486 1 week ago
@goldhippie
both israelis and palestinians cared less , if lebanese are being killed
Bashir came to defend his own poeple and country after many massacres on leb christians done palestinians that started in 69 ( 14 years b4 sabra and shatila )
200000 lebanese christians died of OTHERS WAR on our land
||
v
3w(dot)gotc(dot)org(slash)black_page(slash)chronology(dot)htm
why don't u do a movie ( waltz with palestinians and syrians and israelis in lebanon )?
caro2486 1 week ago
war never changes
gamerboss007 3 weeks ago
To throw shit in a cesspool, is the essence of youtube comments.
alexwingard92 3 weeks ago 2
@captain2ahab Read more on the history of the final solution and the Madagascar plan. The original plan wasn't to kill all European Jews, but to send them to Madagascar. The Muslims were in talks with Hitler. And everyone committed the holocaust, everyone who turned a blind eye.
atrophyfilms2012 3 weeks ago
Muslims are "poor me" "look at how bad we are treated" "boo hoo" cry cry. They won't the whole world to feel sorry for them. Yet they deny that Jews were murdered in great numbers in the holocaust. They are selfish people.
atrophyfilms2012 1 month ago
@atrophyfilms2012 sorry, pal but you are retarded. by the way, christians committed the holocaust, not muslims....and talking about cry cry; everyday i have to see some holocaust-shit in television, frankly spoken, i cannot see it anymore
captain2ahab 4 weeks ago
It annoys me that, when Arabs and Muslims are persecuted, it is made out to be the greatest atrocity of all time. Yet most fundamentalist Muslims deny the holocaust. So if it happened to a Muslim, it was a war crime; if it happened to a Jew, the Jew made it up.
atrophyfilms2012 1 month ago
War is a masspsychoticsyndrom, an illness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And it will never bring someone peace!
Math667 1 month ago
Please...
stop war
VampiraSlayer 1 month ago
@Hatimzaki84 But again, the fighting between Palestinians and Israelis is WASTEFUL and STUPID. Here are two groups of people that really need to work together rather than against each other.....I for one feel that the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians do in fact WANT peace - but the extremists continue to fight that (the militant/Hassidic Jews vs the Islamic militants) and cause trouble for everyone.
MrTEHCOMEDIAN 1 month ago
@Hatimzaki84 But I will say again - there have been more Israeli movies condemning the violence than any movie done by Muslims - why is that? Movies done with Muslim money always always ALWAYS show everything one sided with the Israelis (or Jews in general - what did you say about generalizing???) being monsters - basically showing Jews as inhuman THINGS that are to be exterminated (isn't that in the Koran? - just asking.....).
MrTEHCOMEDIAN 1 month ago
@Hatimzaki84 Chechan or not they were still MUSLIM. And no I did not mean the Beslan Massacre but rather the massacre depicted in "Waltz with Bashir".
But anyway I agree with you - the Palestinians and Israelis should NOT be fighting each other but should actually IMO JOIN FORCES and live in Israel as ONE NATION.
Im a catholic with a Jewish background and if you put me next to a Palestinian you wouldn't know the difference (I think that was even shown on "Family Guy")
MrTEHCOMEDIAN 1 month ago
@Hatimzaki84 The track record for Muslims re: crimes against humanity FAR outweigh ANY that the West has done and also ANY that Israel has done.
And again, it took an Israeli director to make this film. I have yet to see any Muslim condemn the 9/11 attacks or any other attacks against Western Civilization/Laws.
Not one. Lets not forget the BESLAN SCHOOL MASSACRE - shall we?
and again, please remember that the above crime was done by Palestinians - not Israelis.......
MrTEHCOMEDIAN 1 month ago
@MrTEHCOMEDIAN Correction - I meant "done by Lebanese - not Israelis".
MrTEHCOMEDIAN 1 month ago
@Hatimzaki84 You didn't answer my question.
I am not talking about the terrible crimes that the Israelis have done - I am talking about atonement.
You say you are a Muslim - does it not say again and again and AGAIN in the Koran that the "infidels" and in particular the Jews are to be "terrorized" and destroyed - and for "true believers" to not feel bad for the "infidel" due to them not being the same as "true believers"?
MrTEHCOMEDIAN 1 month ago
@Hatimzaki84 "What terrible things Israel has done— and how wonderful it is to have souls sensitive enough to admit it."
I have yet to see a muslim make a movie condemning terrorist attacks........you know why? Because they all condone killing the "infidel".
Prove me wrong.
MrTEHCOMEDIAN 1 month ago
The ending with the real scenes really caught me off guard.
Chriss1009 2 months ago in playlist Weitere Videos von glezbros
i feel realy sry and ashamed too that this history and these events didnt have the same attention and propaganda like 11 september event ,inspite of the huge diffrence in victoms !!! it reaches that i dont know its events even though i am a muslim egyptian !!! Maybe bec we arent so good in probagandas :(
and i am happy but a little bit ashamed that such film came from an israilian director.
yosrahamza 3 months ago
Fucking religions!
vietpridewoldwide 3 months ago
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Wendytruong 3 months ago
when this movie faded to black i saw my own reflection on the screen... It was like it was the last words in this movie say: look what mankind has done! and look! this could happen to you...
I remeber ones seeing this with my class at school. And I remeber hating each and everyone of freinds, for laughing at the end... ungrateful scums! no respect for death and people in sorrow!!!
... Many thanks to you for uploading this :')
ninsennansen 3 months ago
@ninsennansen why did they laugh? because of the screaming women?
netwt42oz 3 months ago in playlist More videos from glezbros
@netwt42oz
yeah, her too. I hoped they found it funny, 'cause it just seems so unreal that humans could have ever caused so much pain and misery. but I don't think that's why...I remember them laughing at a dead man, saying 'you can lie dead in such a weird position' and then I just snapped. I don't remember what happened I just remember that I was REALLY angry, and that they got kinda scared of me.. And then i was send outside the door... soooo...I don't think they'll ever do it again:)
ninsennansen 3 months ago
@netwt42oz I've shown this movie to young college classes too -- usually I don't get laughter because they are taking fairly stern cues from me that there is nothing to laugh at, but I do get people looking everywhere but at the screen, obviously put out with me for making them watch it and wondering why they have to. Some, not all. Not every young person knows what to do with the information or the message psychologically -- we try to work toward it in discussion.
manthasagittarius1 2 months ago
@manthasagittarius1 I actually watched this in with my college humanities class but it was a homework assignment so i didnt see the other kids faces. as i watched i just tried to take it all in the first time, then i watched it again twice to work on my assignment
netwt42oz 2 months ago
@netwt42oz I think watching this film three times in succession is a labor of -- I don't know, social responsibility, maybe, but it's heavy on you. Somebody down on these comments ha said "war is no videogame," but the truth is even war videogames are not just games to the brain. Witnessing this history, even as an animated representation, is heavy on a person.
manthasagittarius1 2 months ago
More lives have been taken in the name of God and country than by all the serial killers combined, the world over.
This film put an intimate, tangible face on a very dark and deplorable aspect of our nature.
Many,many thanks to the person who uploaded this.
bussyahead09 3 months ago
Dramático! Entre a alegria por ter sobrevivido e a tristeza pela perda dos entes queridos!
hiromibr 4 months ago
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this movie is a amazing work.
jova220 5 months ago
Propaganda, wow excellent job of deception. Jews come out innocent again after another massacre.
Pfsif 6 months ago
@Pfsif um, did you even watch the film?
omggesswut 2 months ago
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Jews did it, Not Christians.
SecretTrollAccount1 7 months ago
bashir was my godfather in my baptism in 1981. lebanon would have been a christian, western state today, if he was to live
bgm84185 7 months ago
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According to Robert Fisk in his book "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East", pp.484,488–489, Israeli defence minister at that time Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan met with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and telling them the PLO fighters were responsible for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel. This is the core information that was neglected/distorted in this movie.
Diala80 7 months ago
Ok wait! So Bashir standing there, he killed them right?? I know from part two of this mobie that his friend said that peoples brain will not want to remember something that bad happened. But im pretty sure that Bashir is part of the massacre but why? Is he there to kill them or protecting people? I understand much of this movie but i dont actually get the ending.
XxTehMuffinKidxX 7 months ago
@XxTehMuffinKidxX no. bashir was killed 2 days before the massacre, and one month after he was elected president of lebanon. His militia members were murderously angry and went to the palestinian camp to take revenge.
bgm84185 7 months ago
@XxTehMuffinKidxX No, he watched. His own parents were massacred by the Nazis and instead of living by the "never again" credo that that inspired he watched. That's why he dissociated from the event.
duffbrainard 6 months ago
War, Voilence, military and ofc politicians sux! But would ur behavior have been different?...So keep in Mind: Never act like fucking machines... and tell this to the other 7 billions HumanBeings before it is too late.
Soo much pain in the voices of the victims and on TV u don't even give a shit on those massacre news. U just think: 'well, there u kill each other stupid Aliens' and in the next second ur mind has other everyday problems.
Great movie. Painful Truth. War is no videogame...
WarToRock 8 months ago
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well, i just dont know what to say!
afreshstartedl 8 months ago
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Justice has been served by the Phalangalists because prior to that Christians where being murdered in south Lebanon!
Charbel4God 9 months ago
wow. the way the animation moves into actual footage really helps you understand the meaning of diassociative memory. because its animation it doesnt feel quite real but when you see the real people it feels like you are there like it all came back to you.
pheonixxxrose 9 months ago in playlist waltz with bashir
Thank You!!!!
AladdinV 10 months ago
wow, very good film. Extremely powerful when it switches to real footage. Really catches you off guard and makes you realize the consequences of these events while you were only watching them animated before.
Draculoid 11 months ago
fuck the israelis
Kelertasable 11 months ago
@Kelertasable fuck you i think that you dont even understand the movie.. btw its a great movie ..
sche94 10 months ago
@sche94 Oh I completely understood. You're just Israeli that's why. You're right, it is a great movie.
Kelertasable 10 months ago
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@Kelertasable fuck you i think that you dont even understand the movie.. btw its a great movie ..
sche94 10 months ago
Just like the Warsaw gheto
jaehkimx1 11 months ago
sad part of movie
gho2t9933 11 months ago
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gho2t9933 11 months ago
Can not even imagine...
jenstein101 11 months ago
I HATE WAR!!!!!!!! I HATE HATE!!!!!!!!!
MrFremdsprache 11 months ago
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Nice jewish "film" saying it's not their fault these palestinians got killed. Of course.
raisinsunn 1 year ago
@raisinsunn In fairness the film does display the negligence of Israeli forces and the blatant disregard for human life shown by Ariel Sharon. The blood of at least 800 Palestinian people are on the hands of the Israeli men who were there at Sabra and Shatalia.
Very well made film. Shame about the shitty youtube quality.
AlterEgoMickeh 11 months ago
@AlterEgoMickeh Ok thats like saying the ISAF forces are responsible for civillians killed by the afghan army because they are there and in charge. Its easy to say these things thousands of miles away from conflict, where you are in your cozy house staring at your new computer, playing video games and leaving ignorant comments based on consequentialsim. If they did this and these people were in charge then these people are responsible. The world doesnt work like that. Not everything is so easy.
mtldrmr 9 months ago
@mtldrmr Fog of war. It's not so cut and dried, things happen. Funny if it had been Arab/Muslim against Arab/Muslim the perpetrators would have considered them to be just good strong Muslims as in Black September. Bedou logic. Like you say, from a great distance, and in the cloistered West with its mindset which can't fathom the dynamics, the cultures and even the causes of the reason Israel had to go into into Lebanon, it's so easy to demonize Israel. So many experts, so little understanding.
dallas998 8 months ago
@dallas998 @mtldrmr yeah it's easy to dismiss it as "complex". you can do it if you want. the point of the movie though was seemingly to look past the "complexity" and to probe what actually happened. and indeed, i think folman blamed himself for being a small part of it.
ironic too, that you criticise someone for making armchair assessments while you do the same.
JimNebuchanezzar 8 months ago
@JimNebuchanezzar What I refer to are the comments made by those who have no experience or direct connection to the region. 99% of commenters have nothing but MSM comments to go on. All I see is spin, and anyone who believes in violent solutions to the ME problems is not looking deep enough or is brainwashed. I personally am very sad to see so much angst, hatred and needless violence, which surely will not work out well for anyone. Anyone calling for genocide against the other is wrong. Study.
dallas998 8 months ago
@dallas998 The person you responded to wasn't calling for genocide (or violent solutions). They stated that a) Sharon shows disregard for life; b) IDF's present at the massacre were, to some degree, complicit by facilitating it. and that second point is the same one made by folman. it's not hatred - it's apportioning blame where people figure it belongs.
JimNebuchanezzar 8 months ago
@JimNebuchanezzar It is important to apportion blame where it belongs. However, I have never heard anyone take Jordan to task for Black September and the deaths of 10,000 Palestinians. Neither have I heard anyone call Lebanon out to task for the reasons Israel went there in the first place. It certainly was not for conquest of territory. Let's apportion blame to all sides for a change.
dallas998 8 months ago
@dallas998 it's also important to apportion blame proportionately, and reasonably. yeah lebanon, broadly conceived, probably has a small amount of blame to take for this war. i think that's a logical conclusion to draw from the film (even ari was complicit in the massacre, etc.). but the point is that it's small, compared to the role the IDF plays in perpetuating (or initiating) misery in the ME generally.
thats why israel cops so much flak
JimNebuchanezzar 8 months ago
@JimNebuchanezzar Policies of Israel sometimes suck. It's a tough neighborhood however. Pals' mandate is the death of Israel. Few leaders have the guts to call the PA out on its incitement, brainwashing kids, determination NOT to negotiate. PA and Hamas charters call for elimination of Israel. A dirty little not-so-secret that is completely ignored, as well as the million Mizrahim who were expelled from Arab countries and quietly absorbed into Israel. The Pals want it both ways - also Judenrien.
dallas998 8 months ago
@dallas998 so you've gone from "it's complex", to what seems to consist wholly of "Palestine is at fault." the nuance and complexity you originally fought for seems to have been thrown out the window.
in any case, innocent civillians ought to be off-limits, and in this case, the IDF partially facilitated their massacre (and they knew of this; as both noam chomsky and carmi cna'an have stated). hence, your original post was out-of-line.
JimNebuchanezzar 8 months ago
@JimNebuchanezzar It is complex in that it is multilayered, and yet it is also simple - it's a holy war. Islam cannot allow any lands conquered to be returned to the previous owners.
Do you really think that Israel goes after innocent civilians? Do you know any Israelis?
Let's not forget that the biggest massacre of Palestinians was, like I earlier mentioned, done by Jordan, and yet no one says a word.
The hypocrisy is breathtaking! (not yours, but the "experts" including Chomsky).
dallas998 8 months ago
@dallas998 its simple when it suits your purposes, and it's complex when someone is arguing against you.
i never stated that the IDF went after innocent civillians (strawman). i said they facilitated the massacre - in this case, with flares and by siding with the phalangists. it's pretty minor compared to pulling the trigger, yeah, but it's a part none the less (and incidentally, this small part drives the narrative, and Folman's own trauma).
and chomsky is a hero.
JimNebuchanezzar 8 months ago
@JimNebuchanezzar Nasrallah hopes they will all gather in Israel so they won't have to hunt them down worldwide. THIS is the kind of crap against which Israel must defend itself.
Think about the meaning of Nakba Day. This is not about any of the conflicts subsequent to 1948 - this is about Israel's existence. If you realize that and are still pro-Arab then you are in favor of completing what Hitler could not finish. I am amazed that the lessons of WW2 have been forgotten within one generation.
dallas998 8 months ago
@dallas998 also, the ME situation is incredibly well reported on the internet and in 'MSM', and anyone who cares enough to look (and debate on youtube) can find enough facts - as im sure 99% of people here have done to some degree.
my main problem here remains that you want to dismiss it as "complex", which in the end, is going to result in no good. better to debate the issue than to dismiss it.
and btw, yeah it's easy to demonise israel. very easy. there's probably a reason for that...
JimNebuchanezzar 8 months ago
This is civilization.
RockabillyStallion14 1 year ago 11
amazing soundtrack and an excellent film
alex3ff4rly 1 year ago
What a fantastic, eye opening movie. One of the best animated ones i've ever seen
ironman000795 1 year ago
This is not about land, this is about war and how both sides kill people, how both ends suffer. How we treat people like waste, we are not disposable, we are human beings, all of us, and fighting each other or arguing about it makes us blind.
TomoyoTatar 1 year ago 12
Do onto others what you would have done onto you. All the Jews who support whats going on in Palestine today must support what went on in Auschwitz (and other ) in WW2. its the same thing just deferent people, have you forgotten you that 6million Jews must have been within Hitlers reach( i.e near Germany not in a land of thier own!)? its disgusting no ones right to do anything should cost innocent lives. how ever peace, love and respect to those Jews(+everyone) who oppose this monstrosity. V
bigchiefv 1 year ago
ignorant comments disgusts me. read on wiki all the info and u know that it is not propaganda.
prodimid 1 year ago
After watching this all I can think of is...thank God for giving Muslims the right to resist and take revenge.
Adnowwwwn 1 year ago
This is a brilliant documentary. But I do not respect it at all, because the Israelis seems to look like heroes who only killed innocent people by "mistake". We all know it isnt true, and that Israel has always been the opressor. and thank god most people know that and dont believe this propaganda bullshit.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
the movie does not sow the Israelis as heroes, it shows what actually happened in the sabra and shatilla massacre.
you do not respect it all because it does not match with your "demonising israel" agenda...
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Im sorry to disappont you but it really does. My mother and father lived in Palestinian refugee camps in the war, and they have witnessed the brutallity of the Israelis. So when they make songs in the movie about how they "accidently" killed civilians, is simply utter bullshit, let alone all the assasintations they commited during the war which they never talked about. Many things has been left out. Israel was just as responisble for the Massacre as the Phalanges.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
after reading declarations such as "Israel has always been the oppressor " from you, i would seriously doubt your objectiveness, on the same hand i can tell you that as a former idf soldier i had strict instructions not to aim on civilians..
the FACTS are that the massacre in Sabra& Shatila was preformed by the Lebanese Christian Phalanges, Israel's blame is only for not stopping them on time, as it was presented. not as evil as u'd like to see us, but certainly not heroes.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 If you know history you will know who the opressor is, it is certainly not the Palestinians who has stolen a country. As a former IDF soldier, your were to invade a country, even if you lets say "had strict instructions not to aim at civilians" many of you certainly didnt give a damn. THE FACTS are that the Sabra and shatila massavcre was comitted by phalanges, yep true. BUT Israel are just as responsible cause you orderered the massacre and knew what was going on.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
after reading that comment by you i seriously doubt your history knowledge. no, israel has not "always been the oppressors" nor it has "stolen a country"
even the Arab media states that the Arab nations rejected the two states solution and chose war over it.
they could not bare the existence of a Jewish state in what they have falsely defined as "their land" even though it was occupied by different rulers for ages, and never consisted any kind of Palestinian state in it.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 When Palestinians, or "arab" if you like the word better, lived in Palestine, they owned almost 90 percent of the land. The UN decided to give you 56 percent. Who would accept that????
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
they were living under British occupied land, but even the Arab Landlords from around the area who did own lands, sold it by quantities to the Jews.. even Transjordan's king abdullah wrote: "It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping "
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 As much as the arabs sold the land, jews stole much of it too. You cant deny that you didnt steal anything at all cause thats a pure lie. The arabs were offered 44 percent of the land, go learn history before to speak. Jews were offered 56 percent, even if they only owned 10 percent of the land.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
even if the Jews did got exactly 56% of the land in the partition plan. the Arab nations respond to it has made the plan to be expired. by that i mean that the Arab nations opened a war against the new Jewish state , encouraging the Arabs living in Palestine to desert their homes and by that to LOSE their lands, calling to "drive the jews into the sea" (syrian general Fawzi al-Qawukji) without considering the consequences, they have made the plan irrelevant
YanivS86 1 year ago
example for the Arab nations attitude :
October 2, 1948, the London Economist reported, in an eyewitness account of the flight of Haifa's Arabs: "There is little doubt that the most potent of the factors [in the flight] were the announcements made over the air by the Arab Higher Executive urging all Arabs in Haifa to quit ... And it was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Of course they would have been regarded as renegades if they didnt leave Haifa. The arabs believed in victory, which they didnt get.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
the only thing you forget to mention is what victory meant for the Arabs:
Fawzi al-Qawukji,1947 "We will murder, wreck & ruin everything in our way"; "we...will tear the hearts from the hateful Jews & trample them into the dust,"
April 23, 1948 Jamal Husseini, acting chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee (AHC), told "The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce ... They preferred to abandon their homes, belongings and everything they possesse.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 There are plenty other quotes from zionist about arabs, but there is no need to take them up. If your land was occupied by murderers then you would threaten about ruin and kill everything as well. Just like jews hate the Nazis, arabs hate zionists. We just wont go to China and blame kill their people, and start with propaganda like "they are the zionists who killed palestinians", thats exactly what you did to the palestinians, blaming all Hitlers murder on Al husseini haha.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
looking at the pro-Palestine protesters in the world stating that "Israel has always been the oppressors" , it actually seems exactly like what they are doing..
don't twist my words- no one blamed "all Hitlers murder on Al husseini" BUT it is a known fact that he was a Nazi , e.g- he held devisions of Nazi SS troops, such as the Waffen-
SS Handsar Division that he himself recruited.
as well he lead Arabs to massacre Jews living in Hebron at 1929
its documented: (cont)
YanivS86 1 year ago
(cont) At the Nuremberg Trials in July 1946,Nazi war criminal Dieter Wisliceny testified:
"The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz."
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Yep its documented in your Irgun and Haganah propaganda ;) Like I said before. I will never believe any jewish propaganda, stick to the facts dude we all know it isnt true. Your terrorist groups has been planning to occupy Palestine long before 1948 and the UN resolutuion. Thats why jews immigrated there from the 1800´s, you should have gone to germany ;)
And Like I said before, Palestinian people are free, no jordanian, no egyptian are ever going to have a territory in Palestine.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
off course you'll deny whatever prove that comes to you since you decided already that Israel has always been the oppressors"
But, unfortunately for you it was actually documented in Nuremberg trial records of July 46 so the facts speak for them selves.
so do the datum about the Arabs from neighboring countries migrating to the land - e.g - , Tewfik Bey El Hurani ,Syrian governor , admitted at 1934 that within a few months over 30,000 syrians had moved to Palestine.
YanivS86 1 year ago
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@Khaled4life
you wrote: "Palestinian people are free, no jordanian, no egyptian are ever going to have a territory in Palestine"
when were they free?? excuse me for shattering your myth, but Jordan and Egypt has already controlled the west bank, and Gaza prior to 1967, yet no suicide attacks were taking place against them at the time..
wonder why?
maybe because : ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
YanivS86 1 year ago
---------------------------------->
There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937
what a surprise! :) he also uses your favorite tactic : blame it all on the Zionist! ...
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Again, again, again, you use semi truths and turn them all to zionist propaganda. Its so typical, because how else could you justify the murder and ethnic cleansing of a whole civilian population? I would have done the same If I was you ;) It really doesnt matter about the name Palestine, what matters is that people has been living there for centuries, you are european racists who conquered the land by violence and by gaining sympathy from countries because of the holocaust.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
reading your hateful comments and than being accused by you of any sort of propaganda is a Paradox!!
but, since it also makes me laugh, i won't hold it against you. :)
i just wonder why you keep ignoring facts, such as: like some Jews did, Arabs were migrating to that land which was conquered by many form rulers ( Arabs among them),yet, never consisted any palestinian state in it. therefor, CHOOSING war over the 2 states solution, was nothing but a pathetic own goal.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 It really wasnt. 56 percent of the land was never fair, you barely desurved 20. The name of the land was never important, but the people of the land is. You cant justify jewish immigration to 56 percent of the land, just because Hitler and the germans killed you. Its all semi truth you are coming with, arabs immigrating or not, it really doesnt matter, the fact is that people has been living there and you stole their country and still are doing today.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
don't you get it?!
it was not your land! also not for you to decide who gets what.. it was a no man's land, you have decided to decline the two states solution and go to war in order to exterminate Israel. if you want to live in peace with the Jewish state you could of do so long ago , and you still can. but unfortunately I'm not sure if you want peace as long as Israel is around.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
don't forget the most important fact! - the Arabs who chose to stay in the land during the war, instead of listening to the Arab Nations threats to desert their homes so the Arab armies can take them back along with all the land, are still living in Israel, and enjoying the same rights as i do as an Israeli citizen...
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Of course they will LOL. I have friends who are arabs and live as Israeli citizens, trust me they are second class citizens. Everybody hopes you someday will lose a big war, like the germans did. In most peoples eyes Israel is a terrorist state, and people are starting to see the truth. More and more countries has been recognizing a Palestinian state, so if you keep occupying and someday you are left alone and defensless, you will regret why you didnt give some of the land back.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
its funny that you tell me about your friends living in Israel and their testimonies. because I'm actually living in Israel and also, i have Arab friends. i work with them in the same places, study with them at the university, go to the same restaurants and pubs as they do, and hold the exact same i.d that they have.in short- they get the exact same rights as i do.
yet, people like you are insisting to demonise Israel and are trying to make as many people as possible to hate it.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 I live in Denmark, and have danish friends, we play football, go to pubs and all the other stuff you do with the arabs. Does that mean I feel home? No. Every minority doesnt feel home, thats just how it is.
We can keep discussing the same things over and over again, you have an extremist zionist view on the issue, and you can say the same thing about me because Im saying you should withdraw from the westbank, and rip down the walls. We both made our points, lets just end it here.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
so, in your eyes, I'm an extremist because i care for the life of Israeli civilians (you know, the wall did not exist before the suicide bombing took place)
yet, you failed to detect why r u an extremist in my eyes. not because what you think, but because u blamed Israel for things u don't have any prove about, referred to whatever datum that was brought towards you as "Jewish propaganda"(even if it was Nuremberg trials records) because you are insisting to demonise a country!
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 You are an extremist because you ONLY care about the Israeli civilians, even though the Palestinians have suffered a whole lot more and got their country taken away from them. We dont need to discuss it, lets just end it here. Zionism and rights of the Palestinian people never get along, so might as well end it here.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
the Palestinian people lost their 1st opportunity to have a state due to an act of war, also because of Arab nationalism aggressiveness. so its not as simple as you try to make it look, yet, in your camping to de-legitimise Israel you will accuse ONLY us in whatever comes to your mind, say that "Israel was always the aggressors".
the Palestinians could of have a state many times if they would lay down their weapons. but I'm not sure they want it as long as Israel is on the map.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Lets just end it here ;)
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
Done.
hopefully, next time you wont run into such a horrible film that may break your "evil Israel" myth. :)
YanivS86 1 year ago 2
@YanivS86 Hopefully you wont support zionism the next time you believe in another Israeli propaganda movie ;)
Khaled4life 1 year ago
quote @Khaled4life : "you will regret why you didn't give some of the land back"
im sorry to contradict your theory, but somehow, we already gave some of the land back, and surprisingly , that is exactly the thing that we're regreting about.
E.G - Gaza!......
YanivS86 1 year ago
Comment removed
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Before the 1948 arab/israeli war, their was an ethnic cleansing operation taking place. You cant make an excuse of how you stole the land and steal are stealing today. I´ve never said that the arabs didnt lose the war, and never claimed full lands to Palestine and an extermination of jews. All Im saying is that if you really want justice, Israel should leave all occupied territories from the 1967 border. Simple, if your mind wasnt so propagandist.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
stole land from who? from the British who left it? maybe from the Turks prior to them? or was it from Syria who claim for the land called palestine to be a part of southern Syria.
but since u were clear about the 1967 borders there shouldn't be any problems :
we should return Gaza to Egypt , even though they refused to take it back. the west bank and east Jerusalem to Jordan, although they forbid the Jews from getting to the western wall.
just as it was prior to 1967...
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 There is no such things as returning Gaza to egypt or the west bank to jordan. The Palestinians are free people now, they will fight whoever, if Jordanian and Egyptians will claim those lands, suicide bombers will be thrown into their countries as well.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
hence, the Arab nations choice of war over the 50% land offered to them in the partition plan,and by that refusing to the possibility of having a Palestinian sovereign state for the 1st time of human history. was nothing but an act of greed: September 6, 1948, the Beirut Daily:
"The fact that there are those refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously..."
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Let me give you an example of your responsibility on the massacre: Lets say I want to steal something right? But instead of doing it, I can just call someone to do it for me, instead of doing it myself. Now am I responsible? Absolutely. Will I get the same sentence as the one who did steal? Absolutely.... Unless Im a powerfull person who can deny allegations, even if the once who stole certainly said I was the brain behind it, the court system will stick to my case.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
your example shows nothing, because the datum you provided are false!
Israel did not ordered the massacres.
we had control over the area, but not over the Maronite Phalanges, who committed the butchering as a vengeance over the assassination of their leader ( some will say idol), Bashir Gemayel.
Israel's blame is for not preventing the massacres, i wouldn't say its the same as actually committing them.
Israel had no interests what so ever for those massacres to take place.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 You are an IDF soldier, so of course you have to state something else. Your history is based on Propaganda from your terrorist organizations such as the Irgun and Haganah, so there is no point in arguing with someone who has an illusion of knowledge. But for arguments sake, Israel had the control of the area= they know what is happening and know who goes in and out. Ariel Sharon and Ellie hobeika (Who was assasinated by Israel) ordered the massacre.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
i brought the idf soldier argument on the same hand that you brought your parents argument. only to show how un-objective it may sound.. therefor, non relevant in the current argument since we both "trust" each other so much.
even though Sharon ordering the massacre will fit perfectly with your anti- Israel agenda (although there was no interest what so ever for a thing like that to happen). you have no prove for that datum, in other words, you have made it up.. .
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Of course I do not have enough prove to make the case clear about Ariel sharon, because he killed Ellie hobeika lol. He was just about to make Sharon a war criminal, before they assasinated him. It is something I have to believe, cause if you werent affraid of anything you wouldnt have killed Hobeika.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
exactly the same as it was with hariri's assassination..
its not that you dont have enough prove, is that you don't have any prove at all.. but off course, that it all should be very clear to you since you decided that "Israel has always been the oppressors"
that's why you have decided that Israel has murdered Hobeika (even though celebratory gunfire was reported in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon after Hobeika's death)
but do you have any prove??? well off course not..
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Ellie Hobeika assasination was something everybody was happy about, it was a killing of a murderer. But people found out pretty quickly the consequences of his death, means that Israel will be free from all charges. Who else would have killed him? If it was Sharon who was killed, you would have found the murderer in 2 minutes but when Israel commits crimes, they are very smart, and leaves very little proof. The evidence is all there, but unfortunately not enough to cement it.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
that was another accusing comment by your "demonising-Israel" agenda, which relays on nothing but blank accusations and "what if" theories.
"the evidence is all there" well, unless "there" means your hateful mind, than its not anywhere.. the fact that his assassination was something every body was happy about, as u wrote, just proves that you'll jump to conclusions in order to put the blame on Israel even if u have no evidence, that you are biased.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
now, if you define the Irgun and haganah as terrorist orginisations , don't forget to mention the other side that they were struggling against- Nazi ss commander Haj Amin Al Husseny who ordered massacres of jews throughout the land in 1920, 1921, 1929, or 1936, just for example .
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Yep pull the Husseini card as usual just as your propaganda machines made you believe. Al husseinis country was under british occupation who also was the enemy of Germany. "my enemies enemy is my friend" as they say. There were a couple of riots where both arabs and jews were killed. What an idiot you are for gods sake. Germany killed 6 million jews and you seem to turn it around and blame the arabs because of riots over the jews taking over the country? You should have gone to germany
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
"Al Husseunis country was under British occupation" here's a news flash for you genius, Al husseini was appointed to be mufti by the British in 1921! could it be that he made them to be his enemies by betrayal?! are you sure it was his land??
its proved and documented that the mufti collaborated with the Nazi's and held devisions in the SS. isn't it ironic that you blame me for "pulling the husseini card" while you did just the same by talking about his enemies at the time?!
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 True that al Husseini was appointed mufti by the british, but he still coleborated with the Germans in hopes to eliminate the british from his land and have a free Palestinian state. Do you think the Palestinians liked the british? LOL. There is no such thing as betrayal when it comes to occupation.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
considering that the British, whom Al husseyni betrayed on, allowed Arab migration ( yes migration!) so freely into the land.. so yes, i would expect the Arabs migrating there to like them.
British Prime Minister Winston Churchill 1939 : "far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population"
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 LMAO. The british allowed jewish immigration from the 1800´s to 1948. That was the result of the arab revolt in Palestine from 1936-1939, where both british and jews were killed. What a propagandist you are, making look like Al Husseini was a british supporter when most of the fights before 1948 was against the british. If you cant acknowledge the 1967 border, then its fine, that shows what kind of zionist extremist you are. There is no need discussing with an IDF zionist murderer.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life blaming your own diversion tactics on me won't work- nor will trying to demonise me as a you do to Israel in generlal- your favorite pathetic tactic perhaps?
the facts speak for them selves- the 1967 borders shows that Gaza was an Egyptian territory,east Jerusalem and the west bank were Jordanian.
-the British gov appointed Al Husseini to be mufty , so even though he did not supported them, you can clearly see he knew how to enjoy their grace and than stab them in the back.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
so if not acknowledging the 67 borders is making me a Zionist extremist ( even though i did) , what does not acknowledging al Husseini being a Nazi and the Arab migration to the no man's land makes you?!?! ... by your logic off course, which i must say, is not my cup of tea.
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 Yep, as long as you dont believe in a Palestinian state and supports the occupation of the west bank and the Gaza strip makes you a zionist extremist. Because its not your land, and never has been. You just stole most of it, now they want some of it back. Simple issue if you ask me. But hey, keep blaming Al husseini, thank god most people know the truth and arent as propaganda minded as you are. You should listen to your new historians as Ilan Pape ;)
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
are you sure they want it back? i mean, they did had opportunities to have a sovereign state in the land, yet somehow, they always seems to turn it on the edge and blame it on israel, are you sure you guys want a state as long Israel is around??
i told u to stop blaming me at using your own tactics. i don't know anyone who's blame it all on all husseini, other than stating a fact that he was a Nazi, BUT, i do know some one who's blaming it all on Israel and "Jewish propaganda"
YanivS86 1 year ago
@YanivS86 If I was completely onesided as you claim, I would have demanded all of Palestine back to its people, and wanted you to go back to europe. But like I´ve always said, give the 1967 borders, stop killing and occupying land then I wont care anymore. As long as you keep justifying the killing and the occupation and the opressing in the west bank and gaza, then its definately not me who is biased. Just keep acting like Nazis and apartheid racists, the world will turn around you some day.
Khaled4life 1 year ago
@Khaled4life
On September 13, 1995 - the same day that the peace agreement ceremony was
held in Washington D.C., Yasser Arafat spoke on Jordan Television:
"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war we do this in stages. We take any and
every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish sovereignty there,
and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can
get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel"
(cont)
YanivS86 1 year ago
( cont)
because of many declarations such as the one from Arafat i brought up.and because since we already got out of Gaza and somehow, unlike your claim , they seemed to care even more about destroying us.. we wont give you territories so fastly, not without the assurance of our own civilians security.
don't expect us to trust you as long as you make calls for our destruction. that's an absurd.
YanivS86 1 year ago
What horrifies me about this film, the massacre and so on, is that we just don't learn. All nations have been guilty of the same thing at one time or another. The British in India, the Germans in WW2, The Soviets in WW2, The US in Vietnam and (possibly) Iraq/Afghanistan, no country has clean hands, and until we learn to see fault in ourselves with as much vigous as we look for it in others, nothing will change.
fauxsham 1 year ago
This reminds me of the pervious scene where the psychologist tells the of the man who saw the entire war as a fantastic film until his "camera" broke. I think that's exactly what the director was trying to imply; that we watched the entire film thinking it was a fantastic cartoon until the reality ultimately shatters our perception on war.
kookiegod123 1 year ago
nobody knows wat palestinians go through evry day of their lives
we're all busy labelling dem as terrorists
pafmic 1 year ago
This is our World, People are the Terrorist, we kill ourself...
Urka12 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
They teach us about the Holocaust, Stalin, Hiroshima and Cambodia, but why not Nanking, Unit 731, This War, Bosnia and Serbia, the British test gassing of Australians or Mao? I know this stuff above from TV Tropes and it's not and educational site! I feel more of betrayed than anything. :(
sunainahussain 1 year ago
If you look closely at the end a fly flies into the young boys dead nose.
drowntrackify 1 year ago
If you look closely at the end a fly flies into the young boys dead nose
drowntrackify 1 year ago
The film was a build up to this last scene, and from here the audience is just sicken with the horrors of war.
Then to see Ari's face with a disturbed look goes back to what he said in the beginning of the film. "Maybe I'll discover things I don't want to know about myself." and how he didn't have flashbacks of Lebanon> It seems that he's going to remember this for the rest of his life now.
NativeMMA 1 year ago
I hope everyone knows that this was ACTUAL footage from the sabra and shatila massacre and it wasn't just made for the film. Its such a tragedy, and its terrible, I don't know how someone could watch this and not be moved by this.
JenBabyJen 1 year ago 22
Powerful ending......War will always bring humanity to it's absolute worst....
nevadavargas 1 year ago
i dont think a movie ever impacted me this much, quite shocking and what a surprise at the end blending reality and animation! bravo!
omfffffg 1 year ago
we usually think that war is just about which country's dick is bigger.
here, the true reality is that war is just seriously......sickening
Ahamster1 1 year ago
145x, no, i cannot contemplate from your perspective. it doesn't matter- killing innocent civilians CANNOT in any way be justified- under any circumstance. if a man kills my family, i do not go out and kill his- it makes me a murderer just as well.
btapianunez 1 year ago
I feel sick. This movie is awesome.
grugg2 1 year ago 9
it shows to me, jews has not learend out of there history . exactly what have been done to them in germany they are doing that to others and it is same brutal as the holocaust was....
" problems can be solved without war on unarmed humans, this is nothing but cowardliness...."
ghanishah 1 year ago 2
To know why this took place research Damour and it will give you a glimpse of why it happened. It is not right to kill women and children but you can't understand until your family dies by the PLO and all what you think about is revenge. You can't understand it while living in Paris, Berlin, London, New York, etc.
War is hell but when in hell you have to deal with it. I was there.
145xr 1 year ago
From 1:13 to the closing of the film when the film credits begin to roll is haunting and chilling, you're just speechless> Another disturbing event that this ending reminds me of and made be speech less was watching "Hotel Rwanda" (2005).
a VERY POWERFUL FILM, One of the Best Films of 2008
and that the film director/writer to have been a Lebanon War veteran and for it to be in animation and be documentary makes it even more brilliant!
NativeMMA 1 year ago
hey I was wondering at the end you see Ari and other guy guarding a CP, are they stopping the Muslims from walking across or shoot them? please reply...
M0D3RNDUD3 1 year ago
@M0D3RNDUD3 I was thinking the same thing too, I mean did Ari (in this story) had a hand in murdering these Lebanon families (this is unlikely, just a theory). Or did he just arrive and was at horror at what has happen. Either way, when it closes in on him with this troubled expression on his face and the screaming can be heard, its just sends chills down my spine.
NativeMMA 1 year ago
It's not the fucken isrealis who support the diamond trade or the crimes they've committed... it's a select number of people who did who happened to be israeli. This shouldn't gobble and include the whole israeli population.
Wonderful film. Thanks a million for posting this. Definately a must-see.
DrunkenLeprechaunPro 1 year ago
this is the only movie that bought tears to my eyes
MrXiphos7 1 year ago
Triste pero como dice Folman en la cinta comentada, las imagenes dejan de ser dibujos y cortes y se hacen reales, como los hechos... es una parte cruel pero es la realidad y, es creo yo, el fin de la cinta...mostrarnos el recuerdo real.
quetzalcoalt8 1 year ago