Viacom need to stop b*tching and thank youtube. It helps them with ratings on television and help spread the word. While they bitching; Disney has more vids than Viacom on youtube making alot more views than Via shit!!!
i don't really see the problem with people watching snippets of programmes, and why should the big company be complaining about the snippets either, they get free advertising, and are wanting money for it? :S
I say fuck viacom they have enough money in this world from us anyway.I would like to see what there staff have been watching on the internet can I have your ip details please?
I was going to do a rant on this topic, but chose another option. I may still make a rant video because this topic bothers me very much, but for now I'll stick with some Satire videos and leave the fighting to the big boys. I did sign the petition you had in the video info and hopefully more people will, but we as a community need to act and stop watching viral vids. If we don't watch them then they won't post them.
andy, its the bassackwardness of how this has been operating since the advent of radio.
Copywrite was originally designed to protect the musician/writer/artist NOT some fat-azzed corporation. It was designed to protect the creator FROM the publishers and middlemen--not their customers.
It's become something altogether different. Now it protects the WRONG people who pimp the creators, not the creators.
I really wish someone had the guts to come out and say that things just aren't working and it's time to ditch the whole thing and start over. We have to get a bunch of scholars, economists, scientists and visionaries together and really think things through instead of having a bunch of uniformed politicians and judges, greedy corporate fat cats and sleazy lawyers making all these bad decisions.
It's stuff like this that gives me an ulcer. The copyright system, corporate law and internet law is so screwed up it's going to get to a point where it could end up halting all the progress of the computer age.
Can you imagine what kind of world we would live in today if the distant past had our modern laws. All the stories, music, inventions and art that would have been stopped and not passed on or shared or improved upon. I can imagine someone coming up to the first scribe and saying "Sorry but this manuscript you're copying is copyright."
My brother and I were talking the other day about comic book superheroes and mythic heroes. We came to the conclusion that even though characters like Batman and Superman are culturally well known they will never attain the long standing mythic status of figures like King Arthur, and Robin Hood because they are restricted by copyright. They will be forever controlled to the point that the natural retelling and evolution needed to keep a fictional character alive just can not happen.
You're right Andy. A Viacom victory will just open the floodgates for other companies pursuing the same agenda. This could have severe implications for Google (who are not posting a profit from YT) and for us users. Could this mark the beginning of the end for YT? I sincerely hope not, but as you say, they must have been aware of the implications from day one.
So long as my details don't get handed over via some discs in the post. I'm getting really tired of my personal and supposedly private and protected data being left on the bus or actually deliberately handed over. Great vlog Andy. Cheers, Lesley
The funny part andymooseman is that I'm no conspiracy believer.
What I see by the entertainment industry is obvious. They charge more and more for what people want less and less. They are drowning because entertainment can be interactive now.
I haven't even owned a TV for 20 years.
They are NOT getting it. Culture can't be locked up--it never could.
I've heard creative commons music more beautiful than anything sucked dry by Sony and more entertaining vids made by users on YouTube.
As i mentioned to somebody else & what these companies, or most of them at least, fail to see, is that the genie is now out of the bottle as far as copyright is concerned. It will be impossible to ever put it back again :)
It was a fake idea of selling culture in the first place--it never HAD any merit to begin with.
The original idea was for SONGWRITERS to get paid by singers to use their material IF the singers were making money. Fair enough. The same with the writer of a book so that they could get a percentage of book sales.
Now we have a bunch of idiots in the middle who do nothing but suck the life out of the arts and who used to sell seatbelts for Toyota--selling culture.
YouTube's defence will be that they have complied with the terms of the DMCA as far as it is possible for them to comply. The DMCA was designed exactly for this circumstance. The reason the football channels etc get away with it is that no-one files a DMCA against them.
I see what you mean Peri, But, surely YT should be more pro-active in taking down videos/channels that are blatantly abusing the copyright laws.
I've just been looking around the site & one of the most viewed videos of all time, with 31 million views!!, is in breach of copyright. YT can't claim ignorance about that one surely? :)
Thing is though, maybe YouTube think the laws are outdated and that's the reason why they leave content up until the copyright owner complains about it. Otherwise YouTube would be taking down anything they disagree with, without having any real reason to do so - for example someone might have permission to use music in a video, and YouTube wouldn't know that, and as they have permission than the copyright claim hopefully won't be made either, and everyone can get on fine with the videos being up
Thanks Andy! YT simply don't have time to chase all this. Who's to know that the copyright holder of the video with 31 million views is not delighted with that!
That is a big issue as well Pappy, i agree. It's quite frightening that a judge would give such a far reaching ruling. But, knowing judges, he had probably never heard of the Internet! :)
I have a very large and eclectic music collection and could give exposure to long ago forgotten artists or someone new to the scene, but dont for fear of having my channel suspended. Surely some sort of an agreement can be reached that would be equitable to all concerned parties. I enjoyed your insight on this subject, thanks.
Exactly. As i said in my video, i'd like to be able to use music in videos. In fact, i've abandoned video ideas because i'm wary of using the music. I'm sure others have done the same :)
I was going to vlog about this when I find some time. I smell a rat.. a hidden agenda. Great points Andy. they really don't need to know what we are watching, they need the usernames to see if they have uploaded copyrighted material. We have all watched many of the same videos, do they really want that list duplicated and why? I smell a rat.
Thanks for adding your two cents worth on this subject. It's frightening, not just for the information disclosed now to Viacom, but for the legal president it sets for future requests of our private information.
I've never understood why you can go to the "most active" page and see clips after Family Guy, High School Musical, or anime on channels completed devoted to the copyrighted stuff that are never taken down, but yet they seem so worried about the vlogger using music or the occasional copyrighted clip. But yet, the vlooger always seems to be ignored on the site for everything else. They kind of want it both ways have no idea what to do with us, the very people who made this site what it was.
I think the vast majority of video makers don't put the music in to make money out of it. They use it because it fits with the video, or compliments it some way. I'm afraid the record companies can't, or won't see the difference :)
We should be able to use that material. I like music in videos or seeing other tv/movie clips. Showing that material, IMO, is advertising for them and they should recognize it as such. Another video website places ads(5-10 seconds long) in the clips for tv shows, movies, and music; perhaps Google and Viacom could agree to that. In the end, it is all about money. It is outrageous for Viacom to be able to see details of what we watch along with IP addresses and user names.
I use copyrighted music in my videos a lot and just this week I got two claims from youtube filed by the Universal Music Group. All they say to me is leave the video up but we are going to place advertising next to it. Hey, fine by me. They also get the statistics of that video. How much views it gets etc. Again fine by me as long as i don't have to use that incompetech music.
They said they won't use this information against individual users, just to prove their case against YT: quote: "Any information that we or our outside advisors obtain will be used exclusively for the purpose of proving our case against You Tube and Google (and) will be handled subject to a court protective order and in a highly confidential manner."
That's true it is. I don't really mind them having the info myself. I mean YouTube has had that info (about me) since my first video went up. What I would mind is if they use it in any way. Those files should be destroyed after the lawsuit is over.
Yeah, I'm surprised we hear nothing about the further use of this stuff after the lawsuit. I'm sure a big company like Viacom can use this stuff for advertisment and such. Now that would be totally wrong. That's also why I'm not on facebook. They sell your data to advertisment agencies so they know your likes and dislikes. (There's a video on YT in which the founder of FB admits to that). There's a lot of money to be made that way.
They would get more views than 'User generated content' though. People like you and me are just one voice with no TV publicity. So when their saying their videos are getting 82 million views ... It's slightly obvious. The figures don't add up. I also think copyright needs to be re-hauled for the 21st Century. But this move is entirely in breach of privacy, I'm so, so angry.
To an extent i think YT relies on the views of the copyrighted material. It draws people onto the site. They know they can find that type of material here. Google have a lot to lose if those people then go elsewhere, which they will.
The genie is out of the bottle as far as copyrighted material is concerned. Viacom, nor anybody else, will ever stop it completely :)
I don't think google is any different from viacom, I already see google ads on my gmail which correspond to e-mails I get and send.
how is that any different.
The only reason google is fighting this is not to protect you, its to protect the billions of views they will have to lose and the work they will have to do to get copyrighted stuff out.
2 - I totally agree. Google aren't concerned about us. Just the damage it will do to this site, in terms of viewing figures & lost revenue. Maybe they should have thought of this beforehand? :)
1 - My understanding is that Viacom want the full details so that they can prove how many views the copyrighted material has had. Thereby strengthening their case.
I don't expect they'd bothered by an individuals habits. But, my concern is that they will have the info in the first place, regardless of what they do with it.
Like you, i don't like the Big Brother aspect of this either :)
this whole thing is making me so angry! First of all, giving out ,my details, of my user name & Ip address is a clear violation of my privicy under European law! So if this continues, why should we in Europe not challenge it in Our courts!!
Apparently, because our details are held by Google. The info is kept in California & therefore is not subject to European law. That's my understanding anyway.
I bet this is something none of us ever thought about & now it's probably too late! :)
Don't think the fact it's based in America means much - check out the UK Terms:
16.6 The Terms, and your relationship with YouTube under the Terms, shall be governed by English law. You and YouTube agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England to resolve any legal matter arising from the Terms. Notwithstanding this, you agree that YouTube shall still be allowed to apply for injunctive remedies (or other equivalent types of urgent legal remedy) in any jurisdiction.
I agree with SimUK! It annoys me too that TV companies will use material from YouTube on their programs and don't ask permission to do so, but if it's vice-versa they will claim a copy right breach. And I find it a bit ironic that not too long ago you posted a Vlog wondering how long YouTube will last. *sigh* Well there goes my AMVs...I bet Viacom owns the rights to that too as I only make fanvids...*bigger sigh*
Very true, I guess there's no room for my creativity with pre-existing anime. I do give credit to where it is due, but I'm sure that won't be good enough for them. lol! Well hopefully this gets sorted soon. Looks like I'll just be Vlogging from now on. lol! Speaking of which I'm converting vids from my phone as I type this.
That's where i think the copyright laws are so outdated. Surely if you give full credit to the original source & don't undermine the content, where's the problem? After all you're effectively advertising their product for them & for free :)
I agree with a lot of your comments in this video Andy, but there's a few things I don't agree with. I don't think usenames (especially) and IP addresses should be passed to Viacom and hope Google are allowed to remove that info. What annoies me a bit is that everyone on here has watched videos believing YT/Google would keep the info safe and secure, and now some completely unrelated company is getting the info. Surely Viacom should only be allowed info from a date in the future, once people...
...have been told that the data was going to be passed to Viacom, otherwise it seems a little unfair that you may have watched something (and wouldn't it be nice to have our own list of every video we have watched - bet Google can't/won't give users that!) 3 years ago which possibly may have had a bit of Viacom's content in it? I'd not have a clue if something I'd watched was copyright of Viacom (or any other company). I wonder if embedded video views from other sites will also be passed on?
Another thing that annoies me is how (some) TV companies seem quite happy to lift YouTube videos and "internet content" and put it in their shows, without asking permission and as if it's fair game to do so. Yet if you did the same in return they'd claim it's a copyright breach. I've no problem with copyright owners getting their content removed (or paid for if it's to remain viewable) but think they need to target the "whole shows" and mass breaching of copyright rather than someone who....
....might be doing a vlog with the TV on in the background or music playing in the background. Otherwise where does it end? Who owns the copyright of your t-shirt design? or other items in your room that can be seen behind you? The average user shouldn't get penalised, even if you've got something as part of the video like a short snippet of a show or reading a few lines of text from an article, where as those uploading rips of TV shows, music videos and the like should have content removed.
I agree with you Andy. You Tube doesn't seem to have a clue - if they were really genuine about the TOS, those blatant users who do not upload original content - those who upload TV programs and full-feature films - which have up to millions of views - would be removed but instead are left alone while someone who has a snippet of a song on the radio in the background of an otherwise orignally produced work - those are the ones being punished.
When I started on You Tube more than 2 years ago I was living in Italy and wanted to watch TV programmes in English that weren't available there, but of course those were all eventually removed and I also changed my viewing to the community content.
Viacom could have done something similar to what UMG has done - filtering but allowing the content and placing ads on the vids that would give them their piece of the pie.
2 - I meant to mention, that the BBC have recently announced that they're going to gradually upload all of their old programmes onto the Internet. Partly as a way of preserving them & also so that they can be seen. This is the sort of thing that Viacom etc should be doing.
It's about time some of these companies starting looking to the future, instead of living in the past :)
Don't worry, they've already thought of that. Do a search for 'Net Neutrality' & you might see what's, possibly, in the pipeline. A tiered system of Internet access!! :)
big telecom has been spending millions trying to get that tired system passed for years. I'm afraid we're going to be relegated to the shoulder of the information super-highway!
Well I have to admit that I have watched full episodes of big bro UK 2008 on here when I missed on tv , footy clips, music videos when I came here first. When I do miss a programme I always have a look here first for clips. I do use a lot of music in my videos but never upload anything directly from a dvd or tv, don't know how to do it. In fact I have went out and bought a game,dvd or cd as after seeing a clip here .cause quality better on real thing
That's the point James. We've all bought a DVD, CD etc after seeing a clip on YouTube, or some associated 'illegal' site. Something we would never have bought otherwise :)
Yes my point and a site purely for vloggers etc is a good idea, but as you know I like to mix it up on my channel. Oh reminds me check out PARENTSOFBEDO channel set up for parents with their new camera, but I do the editing uploading etc, lots of scenery on there.
I bought the Peter Kay comic Relief single for last time online but it was on here too but quality way better on real thing. I have loads of Paramount and Dreamworks dvds and love MTV, Viacom are everywhere.
That's part of the problem, Viacom are everywhere. That's why this is such a big deal. Think what they could do with all of that info. Target you with ad's based on what you've watched, etc etc?
They sure are but not much we can do about it. I am just going to carry on watching and making my videos, I don't exactly hide what I view having active sharing on. I don't think the NAKED VLOGS are owned by Viacom, wonder who watched my one on Pips birthday video.
Also watch the Paramount comedy channels, well I am under the comedians
Oh just thought on my vids I have all my dvds behind me, I am in trouble now for promoting Viacom products.
I'm going to see how this develops before having a say on camera possibly Wednesday in my vlog. I visited the Viacom site for first time after seen kenrgs video, never knew they had one till now.
The main issue on copyright, apart from stopping a breach, is a claim for damages. How about we sue the bastards for recompense for the free advertising and promotion of their products - and face it with some of those programmes, they need all teh help theya can get! Anyway viewing texting and emails are already being monitored (or will be soon in the UK) so you just have to assume you are living in a goldfish bowl and remember that famous saying "people who live in glass houses..."
Good point Brian & i totally agree. That's one of the things that annoys me so much about all of this. The short sightedness of the people making the claims.
We actually advertise their content by showing it to people who might not otherwise view, or listen to it :)
Trouble is when someone mentions viacom for some reason I think of that drug with a similar name... what is it? You know the one that makes big pricks!!
Viacom need to stop b*tching and thank youtube. It helps them with ratings on television and help spread the word. While they bitching; Disney has more vids than Viacom on youtube making alot more views than Via shit!!!
PeacefulPearce 1 year ago
Maybe these corporate copyright owners will have to get jobs someday.
pokeweedpathos 1 year ago
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┗┫━━ ┃ ━━┣┛ ┣┫ ┃ ━━━━━ ┃ ┏┳┫┣┳┓ Copy/Paste ┗━━┳━┳━━┛ ┃ ┃ If you hate VIACOM
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speedyweedylemon 3 years ago
i don't really see the problem with people watching snippets of programmes, and why should the big company be complaining about the snippets either, they get free advertising, and are wanting money for it? :S
Superscape62 3 years ago
I tend to agree with you. It's usually very good advertising, as long as the clip is used correctly :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I say fuck viacom they have enough money in this world from us anyway.I would like to see what there staff have been watching on the internet can I have your ip details please?
foreye 3 years ago
But what about innocent bystandards and people being removed just 4 watchin?
khaos07777 3 years ago
That's what I fear: the removal of even those that haven't broken any law.
HustonStreetDiva2010 3 years ago
┏━━━━━━━-┓
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┗┫━━ ┃ ━━┣┛ ┣┫ ┃ ━━━━━ ┃ ┏┳┫┣┳┓ Copy/Paste ┗━━┳━┳━━┛ ┃ ┃ If you hate VIACOM
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corjoshua 3 years ago
good fucking post ! 5 stars
jiujitsu909 3 years ago
Thanks very f**king much :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I was going to do a rant on this topic, but chose another option. I may still make a rant video because this topic bothers me very much, but for now I'll stick with some Satire videos and leave the fighting to the big boys. I did sign the petition you had in the video info and hopefully more people will, but we as a community need to act and stop watching viral vids. If we don't watch them then they won't post them.
Prototype87 3 years ago
The more videos on this topic, the better. We need to spread the word about this.
Hopefully the petition might do some good. If nothing else it will make others realise that we do care about this :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I gotta do a vid about this because there is just to much to say.
The bottom line is when there are so many rules that EVERYONE is a criminal then everyone will behave like criminals because they can't avoid it.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
To be honest I'm surprised were still allowed to use libraries.
americannamor 3 years ago
americannamor:
Don't bet on it in the next 10 years!
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
Make a video, go on. The more videos about this the better :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
See TVParkdale, Galloping Granny is Piffed.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
I just went into this whole issue, this is ridiculous what Viacom wants, but they are understandable in case of protecting their copyrights.
Spielbergsp 3 years ago
I can understand anybody wanting to protect their copyright. But there are ways of going about it & Viacom seem to be going right over the top.
Maybe they never expected the judge to give them everything they asked for? :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
andy, its the bassackwardness of how this has been operating since the advent of radio.
Copywrite was originally designed to protect the musician/writer/artist NOT some fat-azzed corporation. It was designed to protect the creator FROM the publishers and middlemen--not their customers.
It's become something altogether different. Now it protects the WRONG people who pimp the creators, not the creators.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
I really wish someone had the guts to come out and say that things just aren't working and it's time to ditch the whole thing and start over. We have to get a bunch of scholars, economists, scientists and visionaries together and really think things through instead of having a bunch of uniformed politicians and judges, greedy corporate fat cats and sleazy lawyers making all these bad decisions.
americannamor 3 years ago
You took the words right out of my mouth.
I feel exactly the same way & it's all so frustrating isn't it? :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
americannamor:
Amen to that.
Regular people shouldn't have to be lawyers just to be law-abiding.
ENOUGH ALREADY!
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
It's stuff like this that gives me an ulcer. The copyright system, corporate law and internet law is so screwed up it's going to get to a point where it could end up halting all the progress of the computer age.
americannamor 3 years ago
That's one of things that worries me about all this. It could set us back years & this is supposed to be the future! :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Can you imagine what kind of world we would live in today if the distant past had our modern laws. All the stories, music, inventions and art that would have been stopped and not passed on or shared or improved upon. I can imagine someone coming up to the first scribe and saying "Sorry but this manuscript you're copying is copyright."
americannamor 3 years ago
americannamor:
Exactly. All artists/musicians/filmakers learned and copied from the masters before them.
Before long every g-d word will be copywrited if we don't stop these corporate greedmongers NOW.
No country's constitution says, 'We the corporation/shareholder..." they all say, "We the PEOPLE".
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
My brother and I were talking the other day about comic book superheroes and mythic heroes. We came to the conclusion that even though characters like Batman and Superman are culturally well known they will never attain the long standing mythic status of figures like King Arthur, and Robin Hood because they are restricted by copyright. They will be forever controlled to the point that the natural retelling and evolution needed to keep a fictional character alive just can not happen.
americannamor 3 years ago
americannamor:
Exactly. Think of pop music--how many people have NEVER heard, or wouldn't know, they'd heard the William Tell Overture?
What we have here is a dying animal and it's clawing and killing anything it can on it's way down.
If you listen to Jamendo top 10 then listen to Sony top 10 sellers--you can see why these bloated culture vultures are dying.
They want to stop us from creating this new art form.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
You're right Andy. A Viacom victory will just open the floodgates for other companies pursuing the same agenda. This could have severe implications for Google (who are not posting a profit from YT) and for us users. Could this mark the beginning of the end for YT? I sincerely hope not, but as you say, they must have been aware of the implications from day one.
TamHickey67 3 years ago
That's what i fear for as well, the future of YouTube. This could have very big implications. Not just for privacy, but for the Internet :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Sign the petition against Judge Stanton's ruling:
petitiononline (dot) com / privacy9 / petition (dot) html (remove spaces)
kenrg 3 years ago
I've signed Ken & added the url to the video description.
Well done :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
It just screams Big Brother doesn't it? And it has a more sinister feel than just money, too. Good video as always, Andy.
petuniabelle650 3 years ago
Thanks. Big Brother is certainly watching :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
So long as my details don't get handed over via some discs in the post. I'm getting really tired of my personal and supposedly private and protected data being left on the bus or actually deliberately handed over. Great vlog Andy. Cheers, Lesley
flydarling 3 years ago
I know what you mean. I do sometimes wonder if there's anything of mine that isn't freely available somewhere.
I feel that i have nothing to hide. But, that doesn't mean i'm happy about it :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
It's about not having control over your personal data even if you have nothing to hide. L
flydarling 3 years ago
I think Viacom's agenda is dirtier than that.
Viacom is after total cultural/media domination.
By going after google and youtube and bankrupting them--*THEY* will own 22% of the internet real estate. That's a LOT of real estate.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
You may well be right. So many of these big companies seem to be hell bent on world domination, at any cost.
That's one of my fears about this. If Viacom win, what next? :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
The funny part andymooseman is that I'm no conspiracy believer.
What I see by the entertainment industry is obvious. They charge more and more for what people want less and less. They are drowning because entertainment can be interactive now.
I haven't even owned a TV for 20 years.
They are NOT getting it. Culture can't be locked up--it never could.
I've heard creative commons music more beautiful than anything sucked dry by Sony and more entertaining vids made by users on YouTube.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
As i mentioned to somebody else & what these companies, or most of them at least, fail to see, is that the genie is now out of the bottle as far as copyright is concerned. It will be impossible to ever put it back again :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Exactly Andy.
It was a fake idea of selling culture in the first place--it never HAD any merit to begin with.
The original idea was for SONGWRITERS to get paid by singers to use their material IF the singers were making money. Fair enough. The same with the writer of a book so that they could get a percentage of book sales.
Now we have a bunch of idiots in the middle who do nothing but suck the life out of the arts and who used to sell seatbelts for Toyota--selling culture.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
If you want music there are plenty of files on jamendo--you *must* link the creative copywrite. Some of the bands/musicians there are spectacular.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
NOOOOOOOO! I went to click on 5 stars and it accidentally slipped to register 4!
ARGH!
Now I forgot the comment I was going to leave.
:-(
OhCurt 3 years ago
I'll forgive this time Curt.
Just don't let it happen again :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
YouTube's defence will be that they have complied with the terms of the DMCA as far as it is possible for them to comply. The DMCA was designed exactly for this circumstance. The reason the football channels etc get away with it is that no-one files a DMCA against them.
urbanblog 3 years ago
I see what you mean Peri, But, surely YT should be more pro-active in taking down videos/channels that are blatantly abusing the copyright laws.
I've just been looking around the site & one of the most viewed videos of all time, with 31 million views!!, is in breach of copyright. YT can't claim ignorance about that one surely? :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Thing is though, maybe YouTube think the laws are outdated and that's the reason why they leave content up until the copyright owner complains about it. Otherwise YouTube would be taking down anything they disagree with, without having any real reason to do so - for example someone might have permission to use music in a video, and YouTube wouldn't know that, and as they have permission than the copyright claim hopefully won't be made either, and everyone can get on fine with the videos being up
SimUK 3 years ago
Good point & that may be the way that YT go about it.
If you haven't seen it already, go to 'urbanblog' & watch Peri's latest video. He seems to know quite a lot about this & explains it pretty well :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Thanks Andy! YT simply don't have time to chase all this. Who's to know that the copyright holder of the video with 31 million views is not delighted with that!
urbanblog 3 years ago
I find it interesting that folks have decided to focus on Viacom, who I agree are screwed up... But IMO over-reaching courts is the real issue...
PappyStu 3 years ago
I will not be surprised when this eliminates tuberland completely...
PappyStu 3 years ago
That is my fear too. This could be the thin end of the wedge & the start of a very slippery slope :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
That is a big issue as well Pappy, i agree. It's quite frightening that a judge would give such a far reaching ruling. But, knowing judges, he had probably never heard of the Internet! :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I have a very large and eclectic music collection and could give exposure to long ago forgotten artists or someone new to the scene, but dont for fear of having my channel suspended. Surely some sort of an agreement can be reached that would be equitable to all concerned parties. I enjoyed your insight on this subject, thanks.
D
1DRock37167 3 years ago
Exactly. As i said in my video, i'd like to be able to use music in videos. In fact, i've abandoned video ideas because i'm wary of using the music. I'm sure others have done the same :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I was going to vlog about this when I find some time. I smell a rat.. a hidden agenda. Great points Andy. they really don't need to know what we are watching, they need the usernames to see if they have uploaded copyrighted material. We have all watched many of the same videos, do they really want that list duplicated and why? I smell a rat.
Pippilly 3 years ago
Please make that video anyway Pip.
The more videos & different opinions we have on this subject, the better. More videos also means more publicity & more knowledge :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Thanks for adding your two cents worth on this subject. It's frightening, not just for the information disclosed now to Viacom, but for the legal president it sets for future requests of our private information.
kenrg 3 years ago
My pleasure Ken. It would be good if there was a central location where we could post all our videos about the topic.
I hope more people get involved & voice their own displeasure :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I've never understood why you can go to the "most active" page and see clips after Family Guy, High School Musical, or anime on channels completed devoted to the copyrighted stuff that are never taken down, but yet they seem so worried about the vlogger using music or the occasional copyrighted clip. But yet, the vlooger always seems to be ignored on the site for everything else. They kind of want it both ways have no idea what to do with us, the very people who made this site what it was.
anakin1814 3 years ago
It's very frustrating isn't it & bloody annoying as well.
As you say Gary, they want it all ways. But, isn't it always that way.
Go on, do a, one take, 10 minute rant about this :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I use some music in my backgrounds ,but not for the purpose of making money.:)
proofisinthepudding 3 years ago
I think the vast majority of video makers don't put the music in to make money out of it. They use it because it fits with the video, or compliments it some way. I'm afraid the record companies can't, or won't see the difference :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
We should be able to use that material. I like music in videos or seeing other tv/movie clips. Showing that material, IMO, is advertising for them and they should recognize it as such. Another video website places ads(5-10 seconds long) in the clips for tv shows, movies, and music; perhaps Google and Viacom could agree to that. In the end, it is all about money. It is outrageous for Viacom to be able to see details of what we watch along with IP addresses and user names.
DrSidPalp 3 years ago
I use copyrighted music in my videos a lot and just this week I got two claims from youtube filed by the Universal Music Group. All they say to me is leave the video up but we are going to place advertising next to it. Hey, fine by me. They also get the statistics of that video. How much views it gets etc. Again fine by me as long as i don't have to use that incompetech music.
EddyBergman 3 years ago
That's a very enlightened approach from UMG. It's a pity Viacom etc don't do the same :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Yes indeed. I think if they lightened up a bit and wouldn't just go after the money, they'd be doing themselfs a big favour in the long term.
EddyBergman 3 years ago
I'd like for us to be able to use that kind of material as well. It's about time the whole copyright laws were brought up to date.
As you say, it's good advertising for their product :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
They said they won't use this information against individual users, just to prove their case against YT: quote: "Any information that we or our outside advisors obtain will be used exclusively for the purpose of proving our case against You Tube and Google (and) will be handled subject to a court protective order and in a highly confidential manner."
EddyBergman 3 years ago
Thanks for the info & i'm sure that's correct.
My problem is with them having the info in the first place. Surely that's an invasion of my privacy? :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
That's true it is. I don't really mind them having the info myself. I mean YouTube has had that info (about me) since my first video went up. What I would mind is if they use it in any way. Those files should be destroyed after the lawsuit is over.
EddyBergman 3 years ago
That's a good suggestion about destroying the info afterwards. That would make me feel a little better :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Yeah, I'm surprised we hear nothing about the further use of this stuff after the lawsuit. I'm sure a big company like Viacom can use this stuff for advertisment and such. Now that would be totally wrong. That's also why I'm not on facebook. They sell your data to advertisment agencies so they know your likes and dislikes. (There's a video on YT in which the founder of FB admits to that). There's a lot of money to be made that way.
EddyBergman 3 years ago
They would get more views than 'User generated content' though. People like you and me are just one voice with no TV publicity. So when their saying their videos are getting 82 million views ... It's slightly obvious. The figures don't add up. I also think copyright needs to be re-hauled for the 21st Century. But this move is entirely in breach of privacy, I'm so, so angry.
Thanks for the video =D
pictureperfectplanet 3 years ago
To an extent i think YT relies on the views of the copyrighted material. It draws people onto the site. They know they can find that type of material here. Google have a lot to lose if those people then go elsewhere, which they will.
The genie is out of the bottle as far as copyrighted material is concerned. Viacom, nor anybody else, will ever stop it completely :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I partially disagree, I don't think care what you watch as an individual, they care to prove that such and such numbers watch their videos.
They might use youtuber's details who POST copyrighted videos to get them banned which I have to say does not bother me that much.
what worries me is that they will use our viewing habits to create custom ads directly at us. I don't like the big brother aspects of it.
Ranblv 3 years ago
I don't think google is any different from viacom, I already see google ads on my gmail which correspond to e-mails I get and send.
how is that any different.
The only reason google is fighting this is not to protect you, its to protect the billions of views they will have to lose and the work they will have to do to get copyrighted stuff out.
Ranblv 3 years ago
btw: go see the featured video "Star Wars Rube Goldberg Machine" and you will see how google don't care about copyrights when they like the video.
Ranblv 3 years ago
3 - I'll check that out. Thanks :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
2 - I totally agree. Google aren't concerned about us. Just the damage it will do to this site, in terms of viewing figures & lost revenue. Maybe they should have thought of this beforehand? :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
1 - My understanding is that Viacom want the full details so that they can prove how many views the copyrighted material has had. Thereby strengthening their case.
I don't expect they'd bothered by an individuals habits. But, my concern is that they will have the info in the first place, regardless of what they do with it.
Like you, i don't like the Big Brother aspect of this either :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I'd like to think they'll challenge the release of the information as well. But, i don't think they will & i'm not sure that they can :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
this whole thing is making me so angry! First of all, giving out ,my details, of my user name & Ip address is a clear violation of my privicy under European law! So if this continues, why should we in Europe not challenge it in Our courts!!
ukp42 3 years ago
Apparently, because our details are held by Google. The info is kept in California & therefore is not subject to European law. That's my understanding anyway.
I bet this is something none of us ever thought about & now it's probably too late! :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Don't think the fact it's based in America means much - check out the UK Terms:
16.6 The Terms, and your relationship with YouTube under the Terms, shall be governed by English law. You and YouTube agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England to resolve any legal matter arising from the Terms. Notwithstanding this, you agree that YouTube shall still be allowed to apply for injunctive remedies (or other equivalent types of urgent legal remedy) in any jurisdiction.
SimUK 3 years ago
Thanks for that. I wonder if Google have thought of that. My understanding is that the court ruling will apply to ALL users etc.
It will interesting to see what Google d,o if Viacom insist on having the full details :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I agree with SimUK! It annoys me too that TV companies will use material from YouTube on their programs and don't ask permission to do so, but if it's vice-versa they will claim a copy right breach. And I find it a bit ironic that not too long ago you posted a Vlog wondering how long YouTube will last. *sigh* Well there goes my AMVs...I bet Viacom owns the rights to that too as I only make fanvids...*bigger sigh*
ReaperAP 3 years ago
I'm with you on this as well. It makes me very angry & that's mainly because of the implications of all of this. Where will it end?
I did think of your AMV videos. Whether we like it, or not. That's possibly the kind of thing they might be after :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Very true, I guess there's no room for my creativity with pre-existing anime. I do give credit to where it is due, but I'm sure that won't be good enough for them. lol! Well hopefully this gets sorted soon. Looks like I'll just be Vlogging from now on. lol! Speaking of which I'm converting vids from my phone as I type this.
ReaperAP 3 years ago
That's where i think the copyright laws are so outdated. Surely if you give full credit to the original source & don't undermine the content, where's the problem? After all you're effectively advertising their product for them & for free :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I agree with a lot of your comments in this video Andy, but there's a few things I don't agree with. I don't think usenames (especially) and IP addresses should be passed to Viacom and hope Google are allowed to remove that info. What annoies me a bit is that everyone on here has watched videos believing YT/Google would keep the info safe and secure, and now some completely unrelated company is getting the info. Surely Viacom should only be allowed info from a date in the future, once people...
SimUK 3 years ago
...have been told that the data was going to be passed to Viacom, otherwise it seems a little unfair that you may have watched something (and wouldn't it be nice to have our own list of every video we have watched - bet Google can't/won't give users that!) 3 years ago which possibly may have had a bit of Viacom's content in it? I'd not have a clue if something I'd watched was copyright of Viacom (or any other company). I wonder if embedded video views from other sites will also be passed on?
SimUK 3 years ago
Another thing that annoies me is how (some) TV companies seem quite happy to lift YouTube videos and "internet content" and put it in their shows, without asking permission and as if it's fair game to do so. Yet if you did the same in return they'd claim it's a copyright breach. I've no problem with copyright owners getting their content removed (or paid for if it's to remain viewable) but think they need to target the "whole shows" and mass breaching of copyright rather than someone who....
SimUK 3 years ago
....might be doing a vlog with the TV on in the background or music playing in the background. Otherwise where does it end? Who owns the copyright of your t-shirt design? or other items in your room that can be seen behind you? The average user shouldn't get penalised, even if you've got something as part of the video like a short snippet of a show or reading a few lines of text from an article, where as those uploading rips of TV shows, music videos and the like should have content removed.
SimUK 3 years ago
I totally agree with your comments. It sounds like you should have done a vlog as well :)
I am completely against Viacom being given our details. As i said, i think this is the thin end of the wedge.
Good point about TV companies using 'our' content without our permission.
Where will this all end? I have a feeling this debate will run & run & rightly so :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I agree with you Andy. You Tube doesn't seem to have a clue - if they were really genuine about the TOS, those blatant users who do not upload original content - those who upload TV programs and full-feature films - which have up to millions of views - would be removed but instead are left alone while someone who has a snippet of a song on the radio in the background of an otherwise orignally produced work - those are the ones being punished.
LeSaMilano 3 years ago
When I started on You Tube more than 2 years ago I was living in Italy and wanted to watch TV programmes in English that weren't available there, but of course those were all eventually removed and I also changed my viewing to the community content.
Viacom could have done something similar to what UMG has done - filtering but allowing the content and placing ads on the vids that would give them their piece of the pie.
LeSaMilano 3 years ago
2 - I meant to mention, that the BBC have recently announced that they're going to gradually upload all of their old programmes onto the Internet. Partly as a way of preserving them & also so that they can be seen. This is the sort of thing that Viacom etc should be doing.
It's about time some of these companies starting looking to the future, instead of living in the past :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
I'm sure the powers that be are chomping at the bit to add a TV tax to everyone who has a computer - how will they do that? the good ol' ISP. arg.
LeSaMilano 3 years ago
Don't worry, they've already thought of that. Do a search for 'Net Neutrality' & you might see what's, possibly, in the pipeline. A tiered system of Internet access!! :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
big telecom has been spending millions trying to get that tired system passed for years. I'm afraid we're going to be relegated to the shoulder of the information super-highway!
LeSaMilano 3 years ago
1 - I'm afraid YouTube seems to be more interested in views & visits to the site than about being serious in stopping the violations.
I find the current copyright laws to be very annoying, restrictive & outdated. But, they are the law, whether we like it or not.
YT have, knowingly, failed to enforce the law. And now we are all going to reap the reward! :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Well I have to admit that I have watched full episodes of big bro UK 2008 on here when I missed on tv , footy clips, music videos when I came here first. When I do miss a programme I always have a look here first for clips. I do use a lot of music in my videos but never upload anything directly from a dvd or tv, don't know how to do it. In fact I have went out and bought a game,dvd or cd as after seeing a clip here .cause quality better on real thing
Will keep making vids as normal.
James
bedoboy 3 years ago
That's the point James. We've all bought a DVD, CD etc after seeing a clip on YouTube, or some associated 'illegal' site. Something we would never have bought otherwise :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Yes my point and a site purely for vloggers etc is a good idea, but as you know I like to mix it up on my channel. Oh reminds me check out PARENTSOFBEDO channel set up for parents with their new camera, but I do the editing uploading etc, lots of scenery on there.
I bought the Peter Kay comic Relief single for last time online but it was on here too but quality way better on real thing. I have loads of Paramount and Dreamworks dvds and love MTV, Viacom are everywhere.
James
bedoboy 3 years ago
That's part of the problem, Viacom are everywhere. That's why this is such a big deal. Think what they could do with all of that info. Target you with ad's based on what you've watched, etc etc?
andymooseman 3 years ago
They sure are but not much we can do about it. I am just going to carry on watching and making my videos, I don't exactly hide what I view having active sharing on. I don't think the NAKED VLOGS are owned by Viacom, wonder who watched my one on Pips birthday video.
Also watch the Paramount comedy channels, well I am under the comedians
see other comment below or above
bedoboy 3 years ago
Oh just thought on my vids I have all my dvds behind me, I am in trouble now for promoting Viacom products.
I'm going to see how this develops before having a say on camera possibly Wednesday in my vlog. I visited the Viacom site for first time after seen kenrgs video, never knew they had one till now.
bedoboy 3 years ago
The main issue on copyright, apart from stopping a breach, is a claim for damages. How about we sue the bastards for recompense for the free advertising and promotion of their products - and face it with some of those programmes, they need all teh help theya can get! Anyway viewing texting and emails are already being monitored (or will be soon in the UK) so you just have to assume you are living in a goldfish bowl and remember that famous saying "people who live in glass houses..."
randomwritings 3 years ago
Good point Brian & i totally agree. That's one of the things that annoys me so much about all of this. The short sightedness of the people making the claims.
We actually advertise their content by showing it to people who might not otherwise view, or listen to it :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
Trouble is when someone mentions viacom for some reason I think of that drug with a similar name... what is it? You know the one that makes big pricks!!
randomwritings 3 years ago
LOL They are probably one & the same :)
andymooseman 3 years ago
ohh mann if viacom actually has the liberty to view what other ppl are viewing, i bet more than half of youtubers will never come back again
Cipri 3 years ago
It does make you wonder doesn't it?
This makes a site dedicated to vloggers & original content creators even more desirable doesn't it? :)
andymooseman 3 years ago